Advice to Swiss Yogis: Give Them That Hope that There is a Way Out for the People who are Searching, 20 April 1987

Shri Mataji: Some breakthrough has to be found out. What is it you think you can do there?

Sahaja Yogi: It is maybe to contact the people and kind of search in this direction, and maybe we have no success with ninth but with the tenth we have success.

Shri Mataji: You see the people are searching all right. The people are searching no doubt, and there must be so many searching there, I agree with you, but we have to find out the people who are searching, that’s the point of it. And I feel the Swiss is catching on the heart very badly. You all should also not catch on the heart. So what to do about the heart? We have to write or we have to announce; we have to change our hearts, you see. We are very cold-hearted [unclear] See, I think the climate is such and the whole thing is, you see, that there are two movements going on in that country. One is that people are trying to build up new styles of arrangements for conservation of money and for the accumulation of money and all that, because they have had a very bad name and they have been keeping lots of money of other countries and have been trying to ruin us by doing this kind of a thing. 

Like in India, recently they have discovered that even Rajiv Gandhi has money in the Swiss Bank and he has taken three million Pounds or something like that, or thirty million, in one deal of the military. Imagine, he is a realised soul and we had so many hopes from him. It’s a very great money-orientation there, and that money-orientation makes them think of new, new things and bring forth new ideas. Like, you are building now big cells under the big mountains and such dangerous things, you see. God knows what are they up to. I don’t know what is their idea. So what is the idea in that, of building those big, big huge caves and how can they save themselves from the wrath of God. So we have to talk about these things, serious things that, there will be a wrath of God on us if we do not now see to the reality. In that way, we have to talk now. Otherwise, you see, there are so many sins committed, firstly in the name of protection to the people who have money, you see. All the big countries which have been democratic, or even [unclear/exporting] any time, have been exploited completely by this evil bank system and we all have suffered a lot. All that is sinful and that sinfulness is so much obvious but it may come to them – I don’t know as what – but as it is, people are committing suicides and things are quite a lot there. Young people are committing suicides. 

So I would say, if you have some programs yourself there of saying: Why commit suicide? There is a way out. Some sort of an hope for them. You can give them that hope that there is a way out for the people who are searching. But the trouble is there’s such a big attention on money that even the young people have their attention on money. Everything is towards money. They don’t realise that money has nothing to do. AIDS – another thing coming up and for that, you see the Hamsa catches very badly so for that, I think all Sahaja Yogis must take ghee in the nose. Very important. That will not… I mean, that will keep you out of it. 

But all these things are coming and some people have to write about this. How these things are coming. Why they are coming. What have we done? Because if you can improve Switzerland, you can improve a lot of many countries. You see, we are indebted. All the developing countries are indebted. They have taken lots of loans from World Bank and all that and they, all that loan is now to be repaid, and on their head they will be lying like a mountain. But all that has gone to Swiss Bank through the back door, you see, so I mean it is a terrible thing. Moreover, if somebody dies you see, even if he has written that: ‘My successor are such and such,’ the banks do not locate them and do not give them the money if they can possibly avoid it. This is cheating. Absolute cheating, you see. Any bank anywhere, you see, doesn’t do that. If your money is in the bank and if you have written that these are my successors, the bank locates the person and gives that money. So they are cheating people actually and this is plundering. A serious thing, and that’s what the progeny has to face and has to suffer for it. 

So I think if this young, youth people can think of a new dimension, of a new revolution, you can say, then they have to see to their country what sins they have committed: what are our sins, what are we doing, you see, and then have a camouflage of a Red Cross. Very cunning, you know. From one side you cut their throats, from the other side you have a Red Cross. So now, under these circumstances, you have to find out a new strategy: how to approach the people, how to talk to them. Little more dynamic, more revolutionary. I don’t know what you can do there but some people should write now, as Marie Martinez has written, and you all can write and could be a newspaper could be started. What is happening to Rimo’s newspaper? What newspaper is he writing?

Sahaja Yogi: He is very much involved because he has as a new job. It is in the syndicate job – trade union job – so he is very cautious you know, not to speak so much about Sahaja Yoga, so I feel a little bit…

Shri Mataji: Oh, I see. What is the syndicate job?

Sahaja Yogi: I mean, he is sort of a head of the trade union so he has to, I mean…

Shri Mataji: Trade union?

Sahaja Yogi: It is a good sign…

Shri Mataji: Of course.

Sahaja Yogi: He could use it I mean, to spread Sahaja Yoga. But for the time being, I think he is a little bit too much cautious to go on the war, as I can see like that.

Shri Mataji: There is no war. I mean, he can convert many people to this side because… The trade unions of what? Of the bank?

Sahaja Yogi: No, no Construction workers. Building and construction workers union. Building workers union and construction workers, I think.

Shri Mataji: Oh, I see. Construction.

Sahaja Yogi:  Yes. So he can do a lot of things. Even television, Shri Mataji. We could approach television. We may start now, because we have started two or three years ago, they would say no, but now that we come back, after so many things they have accepted, they can’t say no. So I have the feeling with Your grace, we can approach television ourselves, just to explain what is about in Sahaja Yoga.

Shri Mataji: I mean, in a constructive way if you start talking, you see, that: this is what mistakes we have committed, then what must we do. Like that, you see, sort of a thing: look on yourself how can we go on. There’s a terrible heart – as soon as you all came, I had. [aside to yogi to work on Her] That means there is no Spirit, no Spirit; they don’t want to have that with them. Now, what’s happening about the publishing thing: publishers’ thing you were thinking about, a publishers company?

Sahaja Yogi: Everything is ready, Shri Mataji. The only thing, we wait for Your instructions, because after what happened with the translation with the book of Grégoire, it has a little been, I wouldn’t say postponed, but we are waiting for Your instructions how we have to work it out on that level. But…

Shri Mataji: My book will be ready by the end of this year, I think so.

Sahaja Yogi: Everything is, the company is fixed I mean, it has been written in the books, and of course it will help us when… the place of the company we will keep it in our ashram so of course, when our ashram will be built, it will be easier even, because we can say that we have got our office in the ashram and so on, so this will help us a little bit more on the administrative side of it, but everything is ready.

Shri Mataji: But first thing is the ashram needs to be done also, needs to be achieved. How much time will it take, they said?

Sahaja Yogi: By Your blessings Shri Mataji, we may enter in October.

Shri Mataji: Really? [laughing] That would be nice if you could do it in October. Yes, that would be nice really, because it is a very fast work they do. 

Sahaja Yogi: Yes

Shri Mataji: It’s a very fast work.

Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji, it is tremendous because when Sahaja Yogis from abroad come and visit us, as soon as they land, they say it is a desolated country, it is a desolated place, and actually, it is like that. It is exactly when You were speaking yesterday about matter, I mean, I could see the whole of the country in front of my eyes.

Shri Mataji: They have, you see, displeased the deities completely. Especially Shiva is very much displeased, you see. Without Him, I just don’t know how can you prosper, what can happen, how far can you go. 

Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji, one thing which is extremely cunning and which goes with the army and the banks is this horrible Catholic Church because here in this country, they have reached the highest sophisticated level. Protestants and Catholics, they combine together now. I met one of my cousins and I could see the all, sort of a combination of hypocrisy, sort of a… well, well being: we are quite the best. Everything concentrated in one man. It’s amazing.

Shri Mataji: See, like a thug you know. Like a thief. He thinks no end of himself. Does everything, thinks no end of himself. Deceives himself: it’s self-deception. How long can they go on like that, is the point? But I would say that, as soon as you find somebody like that, you see there, head of the Church or anything, you give them bandhans, beat them with shoes and things, it will work, because you can do all that sitting down. Beat them with the shoes. Especially this Catholic Church is a horrible stuff. It’s horrible, absolutely horrible. And this Mr Pope came to India. Spent so much money on him, you see because he is supposed to be the head of the state, one of the States, so he was treated like a state guest. Imagine. Everywhere he is going like a state guest, you see and nobody, I mean from no other religion you get anyone like that. Supposing Shankaracharya comes, you won’t do that to him because they don’t own any state as such. Spent so much money on this fellow and everybody said: ‘Gee, what did he speak?’ I mean, it’s nothing. Everybody is surprised, I mean, how is he the head of the Catholic Church? There’s nothing in him, no wisdom, nothing. There is a political game, you see, to have religion mixed up with this. They are very much away from God. There’s no God. Not at all connected, so I was thinking there should be a book called ‘Bible Enlightened’. I told Grégoire that, ’You try your hand.’ But, you see, the trouble with Grégoire is he doesn’t keep to the central path. In the book also see, to call God mischievous is not the way: there is a protocol. You can’t make fun of God. Cannot. You cannot make fun of His music or anything. You can make fun of everybody else but not fun of God. Deities will be angry. 

Like I was listening to this Jai Jagadambe one, it’s a little bit – I was thinking it’s moving from its position because to make fun of God, you develop your ego. How can you make fun of God? See, God is God. I mean, you cannot sort of, make a caricature out of Him, isn’t it? So that’s what it is. A little bit he has played into the French mind to please them; we are not here to please anyone, we are here to tell the truth. If you like it, have it, otherwise go to hell style it. That what should be the situation. Now in his book as such, you see the vibrations were not so good, I felt like. Grégoire goes off sometimes and everybody is capable of doing that, not only him. But when we are going to God, we are doing it in a dedication, in a devotion, in all honour, in all surrender. Deep movement is there. Very deep. You cannot just go sideways like, there is one rut, you can call it, a deep line in which you have to move. You can’t just go this side, that side. And that’s where one fails. You have to be extremely devoted and dedicated. It doesn’t mean seriousness: no, it’s ‘prasan’. That means you are not, sort of a person who is making laughter or anything. Prasan means a very pleasant face: pleasantness. With that pleasantness, you are going towards God, you see. 

That’s the way it should move, but if you start moving – because, you see these days everything is so frivolous. Everything is so frivolous all over, you see, you listen to anyone, like even Mrs Thatcher – she sometimes goes very frivolous, you know. Surprisingly. She talks, suddenly she becomes frivolous: something stupid she’ll say. And that is something she doesn’t realise that, she is the prime minister of India. How can you be frivolous – or prime minister of England – you cannot be frivolous and that frivolity only spoils I think, their image and shows that they are not in the centre. So for people who are talking about God, it’s complete. You see, when you are talking of God, you suddenly become serene: you are talking of God, the One who has created this Universe, created this world. It is not an ordinary thing you are talking about, not an ordinary person. Just that veneration should be there otherwise, all that talking is not intelligible also, to human beings. But you see, the same way you are dedicated, the way you are devoted, the way you are venerating and adoration is there, you feel that depth going into yourself, and into them also it moves. I mean, I say this also it is moving into you, you see. So what I feel is that, though they look so confident and so happy, so-called happiness of the ego and all that is there, but they are very frivolous people, very superficial. Extremely superficial. They have no depth.

So your depth and your personality will definitely impress them. That’s what it is. And once you have your proper business or an ashram or whatever you call that, I am sure it will start working because as Shri Ganesha’s settling takes place, and then you will start moving better. But that is very much needed in Switzerland, because I find the Swiss people can be extremely frivolous. Can be extremely… like, you find an ambassador you see, passing such a remark that even an ordinary [sounds like/ peon, which in Hindi means errand boy, or messenger] won’t say such a thing in a party. Most stupid things he says. I do not know, what is the need for him to talk like that? A grown-up person talks in such a frivolous way that you get a shock. I mean, what’s going on? 

So that shows that the whole thing is so superficial that, at the slightest movement, it comes out of its place. You must have noticed this with them also. Such dirty remarks they’ll pass, just you can’t imagine. I mean, elderly people supposed to be very highly placed, and this or that, but if it’s a Swiss, you know people are frightened. Swiss means anytime they just jerk out something. Horrible. I mean, that is My experience, I am frightened really to go near any Swiss gentleman, so-called. So this is what it is: is a reputation. 

So how deep are we, they have to find out. Just by putting out this Red Cross business, all the expenditure must be coming out of one-tenth of the interest they get out of this money that they have accumulated. I mean, go to the deep down of it. See this money also came from Hitler. The basis of the whole thing is so sinful, and it should be brought out I think, very clearly to people. Then it will work out that they will start understanding that, our roots are not deep at all. We are very superficial people and any day, when the wrath of God will fall on them and they will be finished just like that. 

So this is one thing, then also we are now experimenting on curing AIDS in London and it might work out: might. Let’s see. So in London, in Shudy camp, we are having all the doctors put in there; let’s see, they are not yet settling down, everybody is still [unclear/shooting] – I am trying to push them there, shooting with this or that idea – but if they settle down in Shudy camp, we might be able to establish on scientific grounds the curative powers of Sahaja Yoga. If it works out, that will give you a big hand and this is on one side. Then as science, you see, we have done some work on say, carbon and all that. All these things, they can be also brought in. All these things can be compiled into a book and could be given to your company to be published. Then thirdly, the most remarkable thing in the whole episode of Sahaja Yoga are the vibrations that you can see in your cameras, you see. Recently you must have heard that My eight hands appeared.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, we have seen it.

Shri Mataji: You have seen it? 

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, in India.

Shri Mataji: So, you see that sort of things are happening. How will they be explained? They cannot explain these things, so these things can be published in a book, calling it ‘A Miraculous Happening’.

Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji, shall we make a little booklet, several pages, just I will write something and we make some, put certain photographs and we publish something – very thin – which we give to the papers, and the radio and television?

Shri Mataji: Yes, but that is only for Sahaja Yogis or for others?

Sahaja Yogi: No, for everybody. Just simple. I will write something about what You just said, and we put some pictures of, some miraculous pictures of You, Shri Mataji, and we deliver it, send it as an information to the newspapers, to the TV and radio, important people in the government.

Shri Mataji: You can say the Holy Ghost is here, sort of thing, you see. The [unclear], you see. Like that, you have to say it now positively because, unless and until you give some sort of a shock to them, they are not going to listen.

Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji, we have…I remember it was one month ago, I was talking to the Sahaja Yogis and I said, ‘We have now to come to the point where we have to jump and to crush,’ and the vibrations started to become very cool, actually to – I mean, to jump in full courage and enthusiasm and dynamism because otherwise, if we are still a little bit timid, they overpower.

Shri Mataji: Timid also and worried about money, settling down, this, that. That’s going to be difficult and it will take more time and more time. And now I think, I am now already sixty-four – this is My sixty-fifth year running – and when are we going to start it now? I mean, this is sixteen, more than sixteen years. 1970 I started. So you can imagine, now I think at least you should talk.

Sahaja Yogi: But Shri Mataji, do You think by this that we have been too late to be like that in Switzerland? We should have started before maybe.

Shri Mataji: No, what I am saying that, everywhere we have been sort of postponing it – let people settle, and this, that, let them have children, let them have families, this, that and on and on and on and on. Now, I think practically you all are settled well, your families are settled, and with so many people as you are, you can produce very good results.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes. Yes.

Shri Mataji: In Sahaja Yoga, of course, there are some people who are still schizophrenic, I think. Such people should be little bit kept out because, schizophrenia is something we have not been able to cure fully. It goes and comes and goes and comes but some people are cured, some people are cured. But some or not and such people can, like our Hugo was a schizophrenic fellow. He was schizophrenic from the very beginning and I thought he was cured but no, he again he has got it and his wife is supporting Sahaja Yoga. Can you imagine?

Sahaja Yogi: In Switzerland there are lot are schizophrenic.

Shri Mataji: That’s what I know. And those who go to Switzerland also get schizophrenia. So maybe some sort of bhoots are sitting on them. I don’t know what, why. This Catholic Church maybe.

Sahaja Yogi: Protestant and Catholic, it is sort of a combination between…

Shri Mataji: Of all the thugs together, but they break very fast. No problem. It is very easy to break them. 

Sahaja Yogi: The last but not the least that, they have passed the law two weeks ago that all foreigners who want to seek asylum to Switzerland should be brought, pulled back from the country and that there’s been examples of Yugoslavian people who seek refuge in Switzerland because they have been arrested for political reason in Yugoslavia, and they have been pulled back to their country and tortured.

Shri Mataji: Really? Where have they gone?

Sahaja Yogi: Yes. Just now.

Shri Mataji: In your country, they were tortured?

Sahaja Yogi: No, no, no, no. They were refused to enter in the country and sent back to their own country where they have been tortured. So in a way, it’s just like the, during the Second World War when we refused the Jewish to come and to give them asylum, so they close themselves completely against outsiders.

Shri Mataji: A day will come when the Swiss will be closed to outside. 

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, it starts.

Shri Mataji: Right now Americans now, you see if Indians come, I mean if you come to India, any one of you, you’ll have to have a clean chit from your doctors here, otherwise cannot come. Imagine you could never have thought of Americans who thought no end of themselves. People are frightened of Americans. And a day may come when the Swiss, with the schizophrenia, may not be allowed to come. 

It’s rather, very saddening the way this AIDS is talking a toll in America. They don’t know how to control it.

Sahaja Yogi: Switzerland. 

Shri Mataji: Switzerland, no.

Sahaja Yogi: I told You, Shri Mataji, per inhabitant, it is the highest rate in the world.

Shri Mataji: Really?

Sahaja Yogi: Yes. And the most cunning thing is, instead of fighting by saying you have to be chaste, you have to be… now they put big horrible advertisement all over to attract the bhoots, so…

Shri Mataji: What is the advertisement?

Sahaja Yogi: Sort of a useless things what they have to do – prevention, around dirty things, dirty things again and again.

Shri Mataji: Yes, they are saying so that: we can be promiscuous, we could be anything, as long as we protect ourselves. 

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, that’s it.

Shri Mataji: As if that’s their religion.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes. It’s a religion.

Shri Mataji: It is a religion to be that way, isn’t it? It’s the mind; the mind has gone off. The reason is the mind is on money. The money cannot give you joy. Yesterday I made it quite clear, I think. Yesterday’s lecture should explain to you why they are so frustrated – pulling their hair, pulling their noses, pulling their eyes out, ears: everything. They don’t know what to do with themselves. So frustrated. That’s what it is. This doesn’t go into Indian mind. Why? We don’t think of all these things. We don’t do these things. Why? They are simple people and they have a satisfaction of their own. They are just waiting for their realisation in India. It doesn’t go into anybody’s head there. Why? 

Of course, now, some people go from here and teach some funny things. Of course that’s there a little bit, but not much – in dress and all that: at the most in their dress, but not in those things. So the safest place now is India. America, people are literally frightened. Every bathroom has a different type of a paper to put on the seat. How will you save from that? By doing that, you are not going to save anything. Stupid things.

Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji, in Switzerland, in one canton, they had to prevent the priest from drinking from the same cup. Every priest had an individual cup in one canton in Switzerland.

Sahaja Yogi Two: At the moment of the Communion when they have to share the glass of wine, they are going to change a cup for little plastic bowls, individual, so that they don’t share mouth to mouth a cup. 

Sahaja Yogi One: And it’s supposed to be Christ.

Shri Mataji: Blood of Christ. What they are drinking is the blood of Christ. [re AIDS] It cannot pass through the mouth, can it? Does it pass through the mouth?

Sahaja Yogi One: This was the beginning, at the very beginning…

Sahaja Yogi Two: If there is blood in the mouth.

Shri Mataji: From the teeth maybe.

Sahaja Yogi One: This is the wrath of Shri Ganesha.

Shri Mataji: But they will change everything, you see, it’s all right. They’ll have plastic things, they’ll have this… but they will not change the inner side of it.

Sahaja Yogi One: And they make money out of it now. The big companies and the big build things, they just give a news in the newspaper: ‘We have found something against AIDS,’ and then the shares of the company goes up. They make a huge business out of it.

Shri Mataji: No prevention. I don’t think they want to prevent anything. In India, I had an idea. There is an antidote for that a little bit. Start a perfumery. You see, perfumes which are genuine may be able to solve the problem also to some extent. So I thought of making a perfumery, because that clears the Hamsa chakra very well. If you have a real perfume it clears out. It should be pure perfume that clears out your Hamsa. And I just thought that, better is to make – not, you see, because, what you have, tabac is from tobacco: tabac that you have. All men’s things are tobacco, because they want to entice men. They’ll go, once you take tabac, you cannot use anything else because that has that enticement, so they make out of some sort of a thing. They might be using some drugs also possibly, I don’t know. Might be some drugs for these powders for men specially, and also ladies things that they have, some sort of a chemical they use which makes a women an addiction or something like that. So if, I was thinking of making pure perfumery in India so that at least with that, Hamsa will be cleared out, and maybe, let’s see now if it works out for Me there. I was thinking of starting a proper factory of perfumery in India, if it could displace these horrible perfumes they use. Also, these horrible perfumes then give you the Hamsa, also can give you this trouble, because, you see, we – say, if you have something like a tabac powder, it goes in the nose and it’s a dead matter – tabac in the nose – then it can create a problem here, can at least give you, if not anything else, minimum cancer.

Sahaja Yogi Three: There are perfumes with names of drugs, like there is a very famous one called Opium. And another one called Poison, and they are very fashionable nowadays. 

Sahaja Yogi One: Of course all in black. 

Sahaja Yogi Three: One black bottle called Black Magic.

Shri Mataji: So they want to get destroyed. So let them get destroyed. What to do with them? They don’t want to be saved, I think.

Sahaja Yogi One: I think, Shri Mataji, I think – I don’t know if I should say that, but some of them, they would sin till the last moment and this makes me sometimes, I don’t know if it is angry or sad or desperate: not desperate, but I am amazed to see people commit sin after sins and go steadily, positively… 

Shri Mataji: Towards hell

Sahaja Yogi One: …towards hell.

Shri Mataji: Yah. That’s what Rajesh told Me that, you see when he was in America they said, ‘You must take drugs,’ they said, ‘You are a goody goody.’ They used to tease him. Then he started doing all these things, which are wrong things, you see, he did all kinds of wrong things. He said, ‘But all the time,’ he said, ‘I knew that it was wrong, but they did not think it was wrong. They thought it was right: what they were doing was right.’ So you see, the over-all picture of the whole thing you should jot it down – what’s the problem is like, you see: overall picture. What are we doing; what are we doing to our health, what we doing to our body, what are we doing for our mind, what we are doing for our emotions? That’s what we are, without realisation at least. So what are we doing about it?

Sahaja Yogi One: Shri Mataji, You have already given us a good means of talking to them because this last year, only the last year, they have been under big shocks: this Chernobyl pollution. I mean, Switzerland as such, because of the pollution of the Rhine, there’s been a big, big scandal and then a lot of people – now people vote for the ecology… 

Shri Mataji: Balance.

Sahaja Yogi One: …balance, or something like that, I don’t know, but there are so many people who start to feel that we are really going to be destroyed now… 

Shri Mataji: From within. 

Sahaja Yogi One: From within, because our culture, our economy, our cars – everything destroy us. They have noticed now in Switzerland that, from February to April, the pollution is so bad that all the commission of the doctors have said to the government that, don’t take your child outside in the street. They may have lung – how do you say? Pneumonia, and something like that, because the pollution is too much and they can’t reduce…

Shri Mataji: In the street?

Sahaja Yogi One: In the big towns, and they can’t reduce the pollution, and the rate of the diseases among children is absolutely growing and growing and growing. So, the consciousness of the people that they face, destruction from within, is not clearly understood by words, but it has been little by little put in their…

Shri Mataji: Heads

Sahaja Yogi One: …heads, and by Your grace, we can go in that direction.

Shri Mataji: No, you see, these topics you must take which are nothing to do, sort of, suggesting not much about Sahaja Yoga, but you must take. Then what must we do, you see? Sort of, you must open their head to this thing. Such articles may be written down without Sahaja Yoga. You say: ’Why it is happening? Let us think about it. What mistakes did we commit?’ You see, like creating a curiosity to begin with, then gradually then, you open it out. Once you get established as a writer who is concerned, who is thinking about problems and things, then you can come out with the answers also. Because you are thinking people, you are realised souls, you understand, and if you have to talk about improvement or talk about something sensible, constructive, then you have to talk in such a manner that it is intelligible to them and is acceptable. And then gradually we can just start talking: ‘And this is the solution.’ So first establish yourself as a person who is talking about something very positive, constructive. Because the whole culture that is built around money is destructive.

Sahaja Yogi One: To put forward a little bit in the question mark, in the beginning.

Shri Mataji: Yes: ‘Where did we go wrong? What did we do? Why is it? Why?’ Like that, you see, so that they start seeing your point. And bringing it further clearly more, that: ‘This has happened. Why should this happen?’ Then: ‘This church talks of these things,’ then: ‘Why this church is facing like this?’ Then: ’This is what it is,’ then: ‘Why is it? Like that, you see. If you go ahead, then they will not object to that, because any intelligent man can ask a question like that. Then it goes further and further and further in their minds. Now when somebody – say, you write – then somebody who is not working with the government or anything, is a free person, can answer him. You play among yourselves. You see, if you write a question: ‘Why is it happening, why this thing, that thing,’ so another one, Sahaja Yogi, should answer. [laughter] You see My point? 

Sahaja Yogi: Yes.

Shri Mataji: Giving the answer: ‘I will give you the answer. This is the answer. We led a very immoral life. We didn’t think of it like that. We have been doing all these… committing all these sins, we have been doing this, and if you really want to face it, then face it.’ Nobody will have an objection because you have raised the question and somebody has answered it. So somebody else, who has nothing to do, you see, with any job losing or anything, should try that.

Sahaja Yogi One: Shri Mataji, we, in a way, we should not be scared about jobs and so on, otherwise we will never be free to grow.

Shri Mataji: No, no. It’s all right. I know that. But what I am saying, even with the jobs, you see, in a Krishna way, you can manage your job as well as answer it. Because they will not know: they will not know that you are the one who is related to this another gentleman. You should write that: ‘Can’t you see, you have no eyes to see, this is the thing, we should open our eyes to see. What is Christianity doing? What are they doing? They are not telling us the truth.’ You see, this is our problem. Why shouldn’t we solve our problem? 

So there is no problem as far as the construction is concerned, for your building?

Sahaja Yogi one: For the time being, Shri Mataji, things go quite smooth.

Shri Mataji: I saw Marie Martin’s husband came forward and he is nice. He looks nice now.

Sahaja Yogi One: Shri Mataji, I must say, and this is for the credit of Denis and Mathieu, they have worked days and nights to…

Shri Mataji: I could see. He has become very, sort of, very cooperative type of a man. Very – a good fellow. He’s a good-hearted fellow, no doubt.

Sahaja Yogi Two: He enjoys it.

Sahaja Yogi One: I mean, Shri Mataji, he is absolutely, for him, it is the building of his life, you know, so…. It is the project of his life, and so he is very much, but sweetly involved.

Shri Mataji: Ya, I could see that, but I didn’t talk to him yesterday, but you tell him, ‘Mother saw you  and She could see that.’ You see, the blessings of Sahaja Yoga shows on a person; like an aura, it shows on him. I can see that this person is definitely blessed and in that blissful state, he is just enjoying. You see, you have to just get into that aura, you have to just feel it that, you are doing the work of God, and the whole face, the whole behaviour, the gait – everything changes, and such a person looks that way. So yesterday, I just came and sat down and his daughter went and sat on his lap and I saw it, and Shakti also went and sat on his lap. I could see he has become such a sweet man. So convey him My love and say that, Mother is very happy. Marie Martin also. You see, he saw Marie Martin changing.  Remember first, when Marie Martin met Me, she used to really tell Me, ‘Can You bring back my child who is dead?’ Like that, she used to talk to Me but now, she is so much changed. And she used to drink and she was trying to destroy herself; she couldn’t bear it.

Sahaja Yogi One: This is Your blessings, Shri Mataji, how we enjoy each other’s presence.

Shri Mataji: She is beautiful. So now you have solid people who have come up, and good people. But I think play such tricks on them, so that you work it out to awaken them, to make them understand that: ‘These shocks are coming to you because you have done wrong.’ And a person who answers can say that, ‘I went to India and I was amazed that people came to know that I was Swiss and they started spitting at me saying that, “You are the Swiss,”’ like that, you see… [break in recording]

We have seen that, because of you, you are helping the thugs of our country, and because of Swiss Bank, all the dishonest people have come up, in every developing country.

Sahaja Yogi One: Shri Mataji, in the last week, just as an information, we could notice that all the black money who came from the Bank of Vatican has been combined and masterminded by Swiss banks too. And this horrible money of Vatican Banks is in Switzerland too. 

Shri Mataji: [laughing] They will give it back or they’ll [unclear/keep it back. That would be a good idea, because you have that. But you know, these Roman Catholics all over the world are the poorest people: they are very poor; Protestants are rich but the Catholics are very poor, because this person is extracting all their money I think somehow, and putting it there. In so many ways, they extract money; in Rome I was told that there are many schools and the fees are so high. Even in India, their schools have such high fees, they probably can’t pay. 

Now, as far as India is concerned, we are doing well – the school in Calcutta will start very soon. They have collected sixty lakhs of Rupees for the school, and they have a big, huge land there, and I’m sure it will all start working. As far as Vaitarna is concerned, we have to have money, but we have very little money actually with you, in the bank, what we have, you see. I hope that is in your name, not in My name?

Sahaja Yogi One: No, it is in the name of [unclear]

Shri Mataji: [unclear]

Sahaja Yogi One: No, not at all. Not at all.

Shri Mataji: So you see, this money is not that sufficient and you people need not pay, because just now, they are saying that, let the sahaj collective pay – this could be the calming factor. The reason is, as soon as we get the foreign money to India, we have to organise it in a different way, that we have to have a committee and this [unclear] So just now, [unclear] But when I will have to take this money to India, you have to have a committee to show that this is the foreign money that has come. So when I take money from you people, [unclear/from one or two,] it should be very collective because [unclear] feels you might go and [unclear/send] it in a black money [unclear.] But when I take it and make into Indian Rupees, I’ll put it in a bank [unclear/and the money will be like that] and the whole lot I’ll carry with Me, just [unclear] nothing will be [inaudible] get so much more. Because, I don’t know, but they say that I used to make lot of money out of you [inaudible] I don’t know what you do, but that’s how people are talking. [unclear] after coming to Sahaja Yoga also, if your attention is on money, I don’t know what we’ll do.

[unclear] or some sort of expression of giving, like one example is that, when I was here in Rome, he told Me, Guido told Me that, there were sixteen thousand Pounds: he said sixteen thousand. I said, ‘All right, let’s see.’ And next morning, [unclear name] told Me: exactly sixteen thousand Pounds, [unclear] this mechanic. So I told him, ‘Now, this money, I can’t take it from you because [unclear.]’ I said, ‘You see, there’s no need to give donation. What you do is to keep this money with you, and out of this, you send things [unclear] which are cheaper here, [unclear]’ And then, [unclear] the Shudy Camp people should send lot of timber to them – you get beautiful timber in London, which is very cheap. So, with the whole barter system, the money is the same, you see, the money’s the same, no different. But it has doubled now. You help them, and they help you. I feel very obliged. [laughter]

That’s what it should be because, if you give money, money has no value. Like I do it, that: you give Me money on puja, all right, doesn’t matter. Then I make silver out of it, so I – you see, you have to have silver for pujas. So that’s how it works out. Or now I’m buying – and for Myself, when you give Me money, I’ll make silver: I’ll pay you in silver back. But what I do is to buy furniture out of it, so that it’s permanently there for people to see: this is what they gave Me for the puja. 

So, that’s how you should find out ways and methods of avoiding money. Better to do into barter system. Barter system of avoiding money, like we have done now, as I have shown you. Also, you’ll do it because you give presents, you see, means that there is –you give some present to Me and I give some present to you; just the same. You see, if you give Me some money and I give you some money, it will look like a banking… [laughter] 

Sahaja Yogi One: It’s like waves, Shri Mataji. Even the circulation can be so beautiful and so sweet.

Shri Mataji: It should move: the situation must move. When it moves, it’s mobile; then it creates all the beauty. If it is thick, you see – if you have a paint which is thickened, what can you make out of it? It must move, it must be mobile, and the mobility comes by heart: only through heart. Through heart, you can move things. The genuineness, the – what you call, the doing from the heart; it’s not mercenary, just doing it for something. And once it is established, I’m sure, once people know you are doing it from the heart, it will change. 

So, how is Belgium? 

Yogini: Not so bad. Not so bad, Mother.

Shri Mataji: Not so bad. It’s improving.

Guido: Belgians are outside, Mother. They are just about to leave.

Shri Mataji: Who?

Guido: The Belgians: all the Belgians…

Shri Mataji: All right, so I’ll ask these to go now, all right? So best of luck in your projects.

Sahaja Yogi One: Thank You, Shri Mataji. 

Shri Mataji: Did you get the sari for Switzerland? 

Sahaja Yogi One: Yes.

Shri Mataji: All of you have got saris? 

Sahaja Yogi One: We have new, official saris, Shri Mataji. You gave us in India. 

Shri Mataji: One? 

Sahaja Yogi: One, yes. And Shri Mataji, we pray to You and promise to You that all of us, we will, with all our heart and dedication, work out in full ways…

Shri Mataji: This time, I have to come to Switzerland. I have been avoiding, but this time… [laughter] It has been much better now. 

Sahaja Yogi One: No, it has been good that You did not come, Shri Mataji, because they did not deserve Your coming somehow…

Shri Mataji: No, no, this time I must come, otherwise it won’t work out, so just let Me come this time. If I’ve got time, I will try to come. All right? May God bless you. Grégoire is nicely placed there, he’s quite happy – he telephone to Me. His children are doing well, except for Niranjana I’m a little worried, because Niranjana doesn’t look so all right. She’s too… I think she’s a cunning child, she’s quite cunning…

Guido: She’s a bit better now. Still she’s not all right.

Shri Mataji: This is something neither Grégoire nor his wife had. I don’t know how she gets into cunning. She’ll be all right there. When she’s better, then she’ll be all right. All right, may God bless you all.  Austrians have gone? 

Sahaja Yogi: They are here, Shri Mataji but there are quite many, so I don’t know…

Shri Mataji: No, it’s all right, let them come. [unclear/If we open here, then they can come.] So may God bless you, enjoy your [unclear.] You made Mr. Srivastava laugh a lot; especially he liked the Qawwali one. [laughter] May God bless you. You should say: ‘We are not guilty, we are not guilty. God please, Swiss have done, we have not done it.  We are against it. We are the ones who are holding the dharma.’ Don’t feel guilty about it. It’s all Left Vishuddhi.  

Sahaja Yogi: The Swiss provide the guards for the fort. The Swiss Guard…

Shri Mataji: It’s quite a good combination. [laughter]