Radio Interview, Brighton (England), Friday, May 27th, 1983

Weeks ago on Gioanna’s program and Gionna was actually here, Jillian Copeland came in to discuss a new, well new to us, anyway, yoga, called “Sahaja” I think that is the correct pronunciation. Well at that time Jillian wanted to know if it is possible for her to bring Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi back, I think I‘ve pronounced all that correctly. And we suggest we would be delighted, well, we are delighted because both Jillian and Mataji are with us. Jillian first welcomes and thank you for coming back. [Jillian: Thank you] And now maybe you could give us some information about Mataji.

Jillian: Shri Mataji is the wife of the very prominent gentleman in the Maritime Organization and she has spent quite a lot of her time giving Self-Realization to people who wanted. And for your people who are listening, I would ask them, as an experiment, if they could please put their hand’s palm outwards while Shri Mataji is talking and see if you can feel a cool breeze on your hands. If you can then I would urge you to come on to our meeting in Brighton centre this evening at 7:30 p.m. and find out what it is you are feeling.

Interviewer: That sounds very interesting may I turn to you and say welcome and Is it a new ..it seems more meditation than actual yoga which I would always believe was exercise?

Shri Mataji: Actually in the yoga that is exercise is just a wee part of the whole thing which is called as Patanjali Yoga. And this.

Interviewer: Could you explain that?

Shri Mataji: Yes. That is what eight [folds] in the Patanjali Yoga and was practice thousands of years back in India where we had a different system of education where children went to the guru and the guru had to teach these things in a very celibate manner and they had to lead a life, a completely celibate life, not a married life at that time. But in that, also the most important thing and the first thing they were taught was how to establish God within yourself was called Ishwara Pranidhana. And without that, they would not go into any of these exercises because these exercises are to be done according to the need of the body and not indiscriminately. And the need of the body is according to the centres that are within us and these centres can only be known if we are allowed to awaken a force which is called as Kundalini within us which gives you Self-Realization.

Interviewer: Can you explain Kundalini to me. It is where I don’t know.

Shri Mataji: Yes. Kundalini is the force that lies within the sacrum bone at the base of the spinal cord which is actually the power of desire within you which is the pure desire. The desire by which you feel completely satisfied and absoluteness they do not give you satisfaction.

Interviewer: So you are saying that Kundalini is a feeling? It ‘s not…

Shri Mataji: It is energy.

Interviewer: It is energy.

Shri Mataji: It is energy. And that energy start’s rising within us when there is someone who is authorized not by human beings but by the Divine power who can awaken it. And when it is awakened you can see the pulsation of the Kundalini just like the heart in that bone sometimes in some people when they have some sort of obstruction. But if the person is absolutely normal, has to lead a very life of moderation and innocent person, the Kundalini rises, shoots off in no time. It takes split of a second and it pierces through the fontanelle bone area on top of your head and that’s how you get your real actual Baptism.

Interviewer: What is a ..chakras?

Shri Mataji: Chakras are the centres which are subtle centres within us placed in the medulla oblongata and in the brain. Those chakras actually manifest in a [gross what we call plexuses. Like we have Mooladhar Chakra it manifests the pelvic plexuses. Then we have aortic plexus is manifested by another Swadishtana Chakra.

Interviewer: Are these again, these chakras, are they sensations, feelings or a..or energy centres again?

Shri Mataji: They are energy centres.

Interviewer: And this gives you the well-being?

Shri Mataji: Complete well-being. See because these are the sources of our well-being. When our resources are limited before Realization we have very limited resources and when we start using too much of them through sympathetic activity then we get exhausted. And when these centres are exhausted then we get the sickness. We might get it physical, mental, emotional and also spiritual sickness.

Interviewer: And we can control this, can we?

Shri Mataji: Yes, then when the Kundalini awakens it enlightens those and nourishes those centres. By that nourishment we can recoverInterviewer: And then if it isn’t working how we can awaken it?

Shri Mataji: You see, it is a simple thing. I would give an analogy. Like, say a candle is not enlightened and some enlightened candle has to enlighten it. In the same way, if somebody is an enlightened person that person can enlighten the candle or you can say the other person.

Interviewer: What does the word “sahaja” mean?

Shri Mataji: Sahaja. “Saha” means “with” and “ja” means “born”. It is born with you.“ Saha” means “with” and “ja” means “born with you”. Whatever is born with you also is spontaneous and easy. For example, we breathe spontaneously and it’s an easy thing to do. So it’s the easiest thing to get your Yoga and also it is spontaneous of the living force of the living God.

Interviewer: “Yoga” it’s a word we come to know as part of our language. But maybe we don’t understand?

Shri Mataji: No, no, no. That’s not the way. The way you have understood yoga is no yoga. It’s just physical exercises.

Interviewer: Yes, exactly. Exercises are with a certain way of making us relaxed through the physical exercise. But you are not saying that.

Shri Mataji: Yes But “yoga” means “the union”. It has two meanings. One it means the union with the Divine or union with the All-pervading Power or you can say union with your Spirit. That’s one and another one means “kaushalam” means “depthness”. That means you must have the depthness to handle the Divine technique. That is only possible after you have achieved your Self-Realization. Not before that. Because God also has got great machinery. Something like this He has got: all telecommunication and everything but we don’t know that. We have never felt that All-pervading Power. This is the first time when you get your Self-realization you feel it. But you might not have heard about it before because it was all a secret science. But in India, people know about it. It has been there since ..thousands of years, thousands. Sixteen thousand years back a book was written about it. So you can imagine.

Interviewer: Yes. Being around a long time. But has Sahaja Yoga been around that many years, thousands of years old?

Shri Mataji: It was, it was. Everybody who got Realization got through only that. And when Christ also said you are to be born again he said the same thing. But today the only important thing about the modern Sahaja Yoga is that it has become a Mahayoga in the sense that thousands of people can get Realization simultaneously at the same time.

Interviewer: How?

Shri Mataji: I have worked out some technique by which we can.

Interviewer: Perhaps you can tell us some of your techniques now.

Shri Mataji: see the technique was, when I was born I understood that it has to be for the masses now. If you just have it for one person nobody understands. Nobody understood Christ, that’s why he was crucified. That’s why it is important that people should be given Self-realization not individually but a-mass. So in my own way, I meditated into the subtle beings of human beings to find out what are the permutations and combinations of their barriers and how they do, they do not get it so easily. After finding out the ways and methods by which I could somehow or other raise my own Kundalini and achieve the mass Realization, I could do it and I have been doing it.

Interviewer: Could you give me some…it is very difficult..indication of how I, say for example, or somebody who is listening would be interesting could start to get this Self-realization?

Shri Mataji: As I told you it’s a very spontaneous thing. You are already ready for it. See like a seed is already ready for sprouting. As soon as you put it in the Mother Earth, it sprouts. In the same way, it will be done. But for that, you don’t have to do anything. In the beginning, I have to do something about it or somebody who is enlightened and then you can take over and you can do it to others also. It’s like one light enlightens another and that same light can enlighten another. It goes on.

Interviewer: What do you do?

Shri Mataji: What we do is to ..just you have to put your hands towards me. That’s all.

Interviewer: Physically or just mentally?

Shri Mataji: No, physically. Physically because the fingers that we have, and have got all these seven centres, the hands have got seven centres and they get enlightened and then the Kundalini starts rising. And then you feel the cool breeze coming out of your head. And you start feeling the cool breeze coming to your fingers also.

Interviewer: I feel seriously very enlightened already. And very interesting. How long are you going to be in England for?

Shri Mataji: My husband is reelected now. This is the third time unanimously Interviewer: And where are you giving your lectures?

Shri Mataji: Now I have come to this place and it is called as the “Brighton centre” where I am giving a lecture tonight.

Interviewer: At what time?

Shri Mataji: About 7:30 p.m.

Interviewer: Is there any admission fee?

Shri Mataji: No, nothing. You can’t pay for it. You can’t pay for it. It is free. It’s God’s love.

Interviewer: And you are just here for one evening?

Shri Mataji: Yes, I was here yesterday and again today, tonight I will be here. But I am in London for quite some time. I travel all over England and also I travel all over the world I should say and India especially.

Interviewer: Thank you very much indeed for coming to both Jillian and Mataji. Thank you so much.

Shri Mataji: May God bless you. May God bless all your listeners too.

Interviewer: Thank you so much.

Shri Mataji: Thank you very much.