Talk to Yogis on Arrival from Sydney. Brisbane (Australia), 18 February 1992.
Our education system in the West, I don’t know about others but, here, in Australia, I was surprised the way teachers are controlled. Not the children, and after some time, I think all children will become like brats, and take to…
Yogi: Very short time.
Shri Mataji: …very short time, and they take to drugs I mean. You are not supposed to tell anything to your children, you are not supposed to, control them. Can’t understand. There’s a new theory that has come, stupid, that: ‘Let them express themselves’. What will they express? They are not matured. They don’t see the nature. You see when a fruit comes out, it has to be allowed to grow. That’s why you become so haphazard and, you become scatterbrains actually I don’t know. Attention is so much, all around. What have they achieved I don’t know. In the recent years have you heard of anyone, who has, done some miracles (SOUNDS LIKE with children) in the science or anywhere? Nothing.
Children are so wise. I must tell you [INAUDIBLE] not only your child, everybody’s. The parents are natural [INAUDIBLE] but you should see the teachers, they are all becoming mad. Now they are building the top storey [INAUDIBLE] to conduct classes. It will take about three-four months, but because of the children it is taking so much time. They all rush up, upstairs, take the hammer, do this, hit that, run away from the classrooms, onto the street, onto the shops. So now they are going to put a wall around it. Poor Hamid, he went to see [INAUDIBLE]. Came back: ‘Mother the children are really wild’. I know that. I am going to devise a beautiful scheme, for children who are below twelve years. Let’s see then what we can… I have to sit down and write it.
We have the headmaster who’s a very fine gentleman, but he’s collapsed. Gregoire went there, and talked to him. So he tells him: ‘All right, you can talk to the children but don’t be hard on them. I’ll manage.’ He said: ‘What are you going to manage? Let me tell them all about it, they shouldn’t run about, they shouldn’t jump from everywhere. They’ll break their legs, or their, head will be hurt.’
‘No, no, no, no.’
He’s such an Indian you see. They cannot win over. But he’s of the opinion that… I think I’ll call Ray next, as soon as they come back. Now we are sending them back to, Dharamshala, till the school is made, I mean, livable. It’s all right, I mean it’s quite livable the sense, but the way they are jumping, and there’s a forest behind.
I told him before the rainy season you take them, for about…this year, it will be completed then bring down. It’s a very big saving [INAUDIBLE] I mean what you were about twenty years back, nowadays that atmosphere doesn’t exist. Even at ten years back doesn’t exist. Every year it’s getting bad to worse. This silly idea that: ‘Let children express themselves. Don’t say no to them.’ But one must know how to divert, and put them in to proper… They are all Realized souls and [INAUDIBLE] they’ll come down. Of course all of them love Me very much, that’s true. If they are told: ‘We are going to tell this to Mother.’ ‘No no not…’ They don’t want anything to be told to Me about them. Mischievous they could be but, sometimes they are so self-destructive and, it’s very dangerous. And all kinds of ideas, of self-destruction, crop up in their heads. What to do next now? Now we have broken our legs now how to break your head, let’s have. Indians I know they enjoy it. They say: ‘Look at these children, how…you see.’ With them it’s a big play. They don’t understand that they don’t mean what they are saying. They’re much more serious.
Also I think as they grow, because they are Sahaja Yogis they’ll become sensible. I know one William, in England. His father, did lot of research on William Blake*, so I called him William. But this William was really too much of it. People didn’t know how to deal with him you see. Then suddenly one day I find it, that he became the king, Shri Rama, and David’s daughter, she became Sitaji. And after that you see William [INAUDIBLE] always would stand like this. I said: ‘What has happened to Mr William suddenly?’ Since the day he acted as Shri Rama, his whole behavior changed, his style changed, I mean I …David’s daughter is always a, very dignified girl. Very surprising, Mr William.
Yogi: We finished it this morning.
Yogi: The chair, Shri Mataji, very nice isn’t it?
Shri Mataji: As soon as I came I really, was very happy, and this is the right height for Me, because when I sit I can get up very easily with this thing. But I don’t know how you people, tall people manage on a low thing, how do you get up.
Yogis: Not very well. With great difficulty Mother.
Shri Mataji: Very difficult isn’t it? It’s all right for Japanese you see, or Chinese.
Yogi: They’re not so tall are they? They don’t have so far to get up.
Shri Mataji: But for Indians, CP you see he finds it impossible, seats like this, and he gets up with such difficulties. At least I am not that tall, but still it’s difficult if it’s very low. There was a fashion in between, to have very low furniture, Chinese style. Chinese not like that. I think it’s more the Japanese. Japanese are coming down here also?
Yogis: Yes, quite a few. More and more. They come in to the Gold Coast, on holidays, then they proliferate from there.
Shri Mataji: And what are they doing? What are their businesses?
Yogi: They’re tourists to start with, but there’s lots of them buying up businesses, and buying up houses and things around the Gold Coast.
Shri Mataji: And what [INAUDIBLE] do they do?
Yogi: Hotels, golf courses, tourist facilities. So the Japanese tourists come here and stay in Japanese hotels and buy things in Japanese shops.
Shri Mataji: Japanese things in Japanese shops.
Yogi: And then the profit goes back to Japan. It’s becoming a big issue.
Shri Mataji: I mean I have a great experience with them. Somehow I went down in ’65, our ship I went by ship. Because on the ship we had a, owners’ cabins you see so we had a drawing room, dining room, kitchen, bedrooms, so with My daughters I went. It was very comfortable to travel by ship. So we started from Kobe, went round the whole of it and came – and we gave it a, complete pradakshina. And since then it has started booming, that, Japan.
Yogi: We must get You to have a tour around Australia somehow.
Shri Mataji: [INAUDIBLE] one day. We can go to Fiji and…What has happened to your passenger ships you used to have?
Yogi: They’ve all stopped.
Shri Mataji: Why?
Yogis: They couldn’t compete with the aircraft and the buses.
Yogini: There are some very expensive luxury ships from America.
Shri Mataji: There are some? Where do they go?
Yogini: They ply the Pacific Ocean, but they are very expensive for a berth.
Yogi: Must be they do cruises Mother, around the islands.
Shri Mataji: That would not be so much economical. But compared to the airplane I mean, nothing like a holiday on a ship you see. No problems, because no solutions, so no problems. Whatever you want if it is there is there, otherwise there’s the sea, only. You can only jump in the sea that’s all. There is no question of solving the problem that’s what it is now, it is not available so finished. So no question of anybody sitting with a problem, no solutions you know. I did a lot of traveling by ship. I went to America all the way, via Taiwan, and to England. We didn’t come to Australia by ship but Singapore, Malaysia. England was the first trip we had. When I went to England, it was May and terribly, cold, sort of a storm everywhere. And it used to enter into your bones, It’s so cold you know. And by the time you get out of the house and get into the car, it was so very cold I mean, I felt that there must be some curse of a Goddess on this country the way it is. Absolutely cold and such wind, and rain, sleet all the time. May month is the worst in England I tell you, the worst. We didn’t know that. They said, because there is a poem now: ‘It’s nice to be home and it is May’ so we thought: ‘Let’s go there for May’ and enjoy the home. It rains and rains and rains. And that was the time they, I saw these hippies for the first time, sitting round that Piccadilly Circus.
So we were wondering you see, for us Indians it was something you see, we didn’t know what it is. So we thought they must be beggars you see sitting here or something. So my daughter said: ‘Why not give them some alms?’ I said: ‘No that God knows what sort of people they are.’ I mean it was this, I mean for us it was quite a shock to see because, we had learnt about English in a very different way, and the whole place was filled with smog. Just after our going they started cleaning it, otherwise the whole place was black and dark. My daughter said: ‘Better go back from here, it’s not the place we should be.’ I said: ‘Now, we’ll have to go by plane because our ship will be going later on.’
‘Let’s go by plane or anything but we don’t want to see this place anymore, it’s all black’.
They studied in an English school everything they knew and they were so disappointed. But somehow after that, the whole thing was cleansed isn’t it. Now it’s better. But still I must say London has gone down very much. If you see, Australia, you’ll say that this they are very much cleaner… Much cleaner cities.
Yogi: The air’s much cleaner to breathe Mother.
Shri Mataji: Much cleaner.
Yogi: Sydney is a bit like London but otherwise it’s much…
Shri Mataji: A bit I would say a bit. London now you know they are saying you can’t stay in the city. We were there for few days, they had taken a house on rent. Whenever we got the chance we used to run away to Shudy Camps because of CP’s Office, last days of his Office see, better finish them. So tiring. Though there are no industries, somehow or other, I think it is so congested now. The pollution is so much. They don’t have chimneys now running nothing but still, very polluted. Just like your, Bombay. Bombay also has become very dirty now.
Somehow export should be done from here but I think some people should sit down, and find out how to export. India is doing such a lot of export that’s why it is grown so much. You have so many things. I think My Attention might help with the… You can get the labor from outside and start doing things. Labor is very bad here, very bad labor. Then this recession is artificial I tell you really. Because you have everything you cannot export. So this shows that it’s all artificial. You can sell all these things. The other day I ate some very nice rasgulas and gulab jamuns you see. I said these you don’t get anywhere in the world such nice ones. You can easily export them.
I’m thinking of this Vaitarna we have to develop it. And, it’s a place where it rains a lot,
while we could have, some sort of a, rustic style of school there. It’s not difficult. This one[INAUDIBLE] years I’ve made it very [INAUDIBLE] sort of [INAUDIBLE] because they are small children but for the bigger children we can have, some school which is rather rustic type and, because there are forty-two acres of land we have. It’s quite a big land, and now we have permission. After six years we got permission.
Yogi: Six years. What was the problem?
Shri Mataji: Bribery I think. I think these people bribe because, suddenly they have said: ‘Yes.’ Must have been without telling Me. Sometimes they think I am not practical. But I said: ‘At least a school should not be started on bribes,’ but what to do? Also away from the madding crowd. It’s a beautiful place you have seen Vaitarna it’s beautiful. And also, you can keep them busy with something more interesting, than television and all that. Indian television is not like that, it’s everything, even for adults it is censored. I think in the night about twelve o’clock they start some English films, in the night. Indian films on the whole are, all right but sometimes, too much of violence that’s all. And in Calcutta now we have got a land, eighty acres… a lot of land.
Yogi: That’s a lot of land.
Shri Mataji: Lot of land. And the first school we are starting for the primary education, for the, I don’t know what’s the area of the building there, but it’s quite a nice building, so then I was talking to the architect and I told him that was My idea, about the primary school. He was very much interested. And he agreed. [HINDI]
So Calcutta also would be another school where we can take some children. Another primary school. But not so many because the government is sponsoring it. So I don’t know how many foreigners they would allow. Then they like to have more Bengalis than Indians. It could not work out in Shudy Camps. To begin with Shudy Camps was built with that idea. Because there’s so many rules and regulations, English rules and regulations are formidable I tell you. So much so, that we gave up, absolutely I mean, we’ll have to renovate the whole places like this, we gave it up. And then it’s lying like that although I mean people go and stay there but it’s, not paying at all it’s just the same. But here I don’t know what sort of education because even six-seven year old children, don’t know how to write, and how to read. I don’t know what they do.
Yogini:They come out of university that way Mother, not knowing how to read and write.
Shri Mataji: Really.
Yogini: They don’t know how to spell, write a letter, quite a number.
Yogi: Teaching of grammar is very bad Mother almost non-existent.
Shri Mataji: What?
Yogi: Teaching of grammar. They don’t teach it. So journalists, writers they don’t know how to use grammar properly.
Shri Mataji: How can you learn language without grammar?
Yogi: That’s what I say.
Yogini: And the building contractors are finding that the young men can’t add up, an equation.
Shri Mataji: That is everywhere now. Fractions they cannot add up, ordinary.
Yogini: No six halves they wouldn’t know was three, you know that sort of thing, computers.
Shri Mataji: Because of this calculator that’s true. They don’t know tables that’s the problem. But in India that’s not so they have to learn tables and, they are still very primitive. Calculator is not given in the schools, colleges anywhere, and they are so good at mathematics. Indians are known for their mathematics. And they don’t use calculators now I mean, normally we don’t use calculators just like this we know. But the idea of having a career and a respectable life, is not there existing. I mean they have no self-esteem, that’s the point is. And you should do something in life, you should know something, that’s not there. And this is getting from bad to worse now, bad to worse. Maybe this dole, dole business might be responsible. They prefer to be, road cleaners, garbage cleaners, than to go to universities. In England all universities are free, for English.
Yogi: Free, you don’t have to pay. Free.
Shri Mataji: Cambridge, anywhere. And the Indians or anybody outside there has to pay, exorbitantly. When we were in England we thought, we’ll get our children for a year in a school there. So every child would be costing four to five laques of rupees. I don’t know how much it is. Now they’re more. About fifty thousand pounds, each, for a foreigner. We gave up the idea.
Yogi: This year Mother in Australia there were, about thirty thousand school leavers could not get places in universities. There weren’t enough places for the students that wanted them.
Shri Mataji: But they should go, to professional things and to things like see, plumbing, building, mechanicals, like that, there should be some, schools of that kind.
Yogi: There are those schools Mother but those are also crowded out, there’s not enough places. That number of students simply couldn’t find any tertiary education, or post school education at all. The technical colleges are also full. The government wants to do it on the cheap Mother. They don’t want to invest.
Shri Mataji: Despite that the labor is so expensive here.
Yogi: That’s the big killer all the time.
Shri Mataji: You come back to the same point.
Yogi: I had a friend Shri Mother who had a Lodge in Thredbo – you remember where we went for Sahasrara Day in 1987. He owned one of those Lodges there in that village, and about two years prior to that I had seen him for the first time for about five years, and in that five years he had stopped his dining room. They didn’t have meals anymore because he said it wasn’t worth it, because on the weekends, they wanted triple time.
Shri Mataji: Triple
Yogi: Triple time. Three times the normal hourly wage. For working on the weekend.
So he said forget it. So they didn’t have a job. And this is what’s happening everywhere, they want more and more and more and they want to do less and less and less so people just stop.
Shri Mataji: That’s the problem. That’s what I feel that if, machineries are brought down a little bit, and more handwork started, then everybody will get that point, because that’s what they have done in Italy. All kinds of ceramics, all kinds of woodwork all kinds of this lace work, linen this, that. They have been producing not through machinery and I think in the whole of Europe that’s the only country that is doing that. And here India and China. So these three countries will only prosper. Machinery will naturally, will be [INAUDIBLE]. Also you see everybody [won’t?] get a job if there’s a machinery. Supposing a hundred persons are working, as soon as machinery comes five can manage that, so there should be some balance between machinery and handwork. And handwork then becomes much more sort of, prestigious. The Italians have made money out of their handwork. All kinds of things they make, all kinds of things.
They have so-called factories, where women are sitting, men are sitting, moving, doing this doing that. But they are so perfect, so perfect. They have made some say, statues of children. So sweet, some of the statues are so sweet and [HINDI]. I wish I had shown you the photograph. This time they gave Me a present from Australia, so Fogarty must have taken a photograph of that. Did he show you?
Yogi: Yes Mother.
Shri Mataji: Some dogs. Very beautiful dogs, sitting very sweetly there. So into such details you know, now there’s one piece I have got, where four boys are playing the, cards you see, and one is cheating also, I mean they’re all cheating each other. It’s very interesting, and the one who is cheating is holding a card in his foot, like this, and the muscle study, is so great and little children how they behave, how they are naughty everything. I mean they must be really, have made a great study of all that.
And export, exporting everything to Riyadh, to all these Arabic countries everything. They are just exporting. They have got lamps made so beautifully. For this Diwali Puja we have got. From Switzerland we got, a lamp made just like a Swiss village, and the water is flowing, continuously, and there’s a lamp with that. All these lamps have a water flow like that, continuously, so well arranged. They are the only country in the whole of Europe who are so concerned about this, only country. Where they, for them children are the highest. There’s no child abuse nothing of the kind anybody who does that, he’ll be [INAUDIBLE]. They are very very respectful to children. [INAUDIBLE] There see now, see this. This is made.
Yogi: It’s a nice piece of work Mother.
Shri Mataji: See the dress, the way they are sitting you know, four of them.
Yogi: It’s beautifully made.
Shri Mataji: Very common, there are such nice, nice things about children. Beautiful about mothers, any theme they take, so many varieties. See the naughty boys. You see there’s nothing, so many of them like that they make. And these are all exported. We got them very cheap because war had started so all their export has stopped [INAUDIBLE]. So we got them for a song, that’s different, but, they also make tables out of the same ceramics, tables, side-tables and all kinds of things. They combine brass with this and, wood with this. Very artistic. Lacquer work, so much of lacquer work. This embroidery everything. Now you see this linen comes from there, beautiful with styles, scarves, everything from there. [INAUDIBLE]. Is from Italy only. They produce lot of silk, lot of silk. I mean you can produce also. This is a very good place for production of silk, see. This is from there only you see. I mean this must be selling here very expensive but not there.
Yogi: Beautiful. It’s very high quality Mother. It’s not a print, it’s a weave isn’t it?
Shri Mataji: No no it’s a print. But you can also weave, they have very good styles with weave and all that.
Yogi: There’s some handicrafts done locally Mother. Just north of Brisbane there are three small towns Melany, Montville, and Mapleton, where there’s a lot of people producing all kinds of things from pottery, painting, jewelry, and it’s growing.
Shri Mataji: It is more on the rustic style. You see there I’ve seen Australia because I’ve visited two to three your exhibitions. I found they produce something on rustic style, which is not appreciated all over the world, only here maybe some people might buy. It’s all rustic style, and rustic style is labor-saving. This needs, to work. Like Indian weaving if you see. Lot of work. We bought a purse the other day, isn’t it from made in India.
Yogi: Beautiful. Very unusual.
Shri Mataji: To buy, in Melbourne, a purse made in India. And very cheap. So all those countries which are I mean using handwork will go up. You see this will create recession no doubt because machine like a mad thing, mad person producing such large quantities that you can’t sell it. I think Sahaja Yogis should take to more handmade things [INAUDIBLE]. That would be better.
Everything another is Czechoslovakia. You see all these countries have something, even Russia, Hungary. Hungary has lots of handmade things, even now because of communism you see, they kept to, all this. Very well developed, all these [INAUDIBLE] you should see Turkey. Turkey is another, beautiful things they make. This [SOUNDS LIKE: harrikilim?] is the most expensive carpet [harrikilim?] is made in Turkey. Now Iran is gone down because of all this. But any country that produces handmade things will come up. Now Italy has shown the way. Italy they don’t make, crystal and don’t make carpets. All the rest, whatever you see, sunglasses and, A to Z. Ghandiji was very much particular about handmade things, very much. Used to say that we should start, and that’s why in India it is still there, I mean still this art is maintained. [HINDI]