Talk to yogis. 4 Chemin de Montrognon, 95660 Champagne-sur-Oise, France, 20 June 1981.

Like this room has got the atmosphere which is clean, so when the sun rises the light shines very well inside. Spirit is unchangeable, cannot be in anyway made impure nor can it be destroyed. But the attention, if not clear, you may not see the Spirit at all. We can say the lampshade, we can say, is the liver which contains the space which is the attention. Now if you put the light inside the lampshade and the lampshade is not clean then you don’t see any light. If the lampshade is absolutely black you won’t even feel the existence of light inside. This is an analogy of the dead things, but we are talking about living, so when the Kundalini rises, she first feels your Swadishthana.
Now, the Swadishthana is the one which looks after your attention. The Swadishthana clears out your attention through your liver, through your pancreas, and through your kidneys. And it sustain it through your spleen and it makes it richer by transforming the fat cells into your brain cells. Now, the human brain cells are very special ones. They have an attention which goes out. If a man looks at something he creates a thought wave of himself about that. So all the dimension of aesthetics and of- we can say the form and the color and all the dynamics are in the human brain, which animals don’t have. For if an artist sees this flower arrangement he can project his attention in such a way, that he sees something beyond it and by using few lights, you can create the atmosphere that this arrangement is making.
For example, a dramatist can write a play and put the whole thing in such a way that he creates a mood. Or a musician can put a melody before you and create an atmosphere of abstract joy. So it’s the only human mind that can do the abstract. Of course, we have very gross human beings also but they can develop into very beautiful human beings who can project their mind to abstraction. I mean there is no end to the dimensions of human brain. For example, a scientist can find out what is under this leaf, but an animal cannot see anything beyond it, but it‘s a leaf that’s all. The animal does not know any mannerism or any method of expressing his love which does not hurt another person and there is consideration, all the beauties of human beings come through the brain cells.
So, this multidimensional brain cell is sustained by your attention.
But I’ve known great Indian artist, musician, getting completely lost because they became drunkard, or they ‘ve affected some other organs within themselves, more than liver, by taking to something like say hashish and all these things, I don’t know what all sorts of things human beings have done. But these ill effects of alcohol are not seen because it gives rise to your ego.
Now, how does a thing that goes to the sub [place?] to the subconscious gives rise to your ego? The trouble is to avoid the ego, you take alcohol. Because you can’t face your ego so you want to escape your personality and you take to alcohol. If you had faced your ego it would have been much less. So when you comeback from that drink you have another big balloon coming up and because of this ego activation your brain cells start becoming very active. Yes, an egoistic man has a tremendous brain, for some time. For some time, you become extremely powerful, you have new inventions, this kind of things. With your ego you can be a very successful person and could be a great orator and you could be like Hitler for example.
11:20
And this would go on and on and if you were not affected by the after-effect, the hangovers. But all the poisons have a capacity to react. All that is not divine in the long run always reacts.
So then after sometime you find nations after nations finish off like the Roman Empire was finished off. Now England is leading the way, France I don’t know, Switzerland. [Laughs] Switzerland has another problem also they are giving military training, God save the [unclear] fake military training. So Norway people are committing suicide, Sweden is competing with them. Now, I have touched all the European countries.
Sahaja Yogini: Spain is a major country.
Shri Mataji: All right Spain and then Italy. Spain: Spanish people, you know how aggressive they were once upon a time. They went up to Chile, and Argentina, and all these things and now they are supposed to be developing country. They are a poor country. What about Portugal? Portuguese came up to India they ruled us for so many years. While the British, they ruled us for 300 years, but now they can’t even hold a glass like this, how will they carry the crown of Empire on their head? They are having strikes everywhere, for drinking, why do they want more money? Just to have more drinks. Are they going to do anything better with that money? The more money you give [to] human beings, the first thing they will do is go to pub. You bless them with the good crops of say grapes they will make alcohol. You give them any power they will make atom bombs.
Now, this kind of confused attitude that people have developed is because of their awareness being completely flooded with smoke of poison. All the foundations of your values are shaken that is why people have no self -what you call- confidence, they have only ego, but the self confidence comes through your virtues, through the manifestation of your Spirit. When you enjoy your virtues, then you are confident, you are not bothered. But ego trips are bad experience. You stick your nose into everything and nose gets smashed every time. And that is how diffidence came in. But a virtuous person has no way to be defendant. He’s not egoistical because the greatest virtue is to love. So, now how to love? [Laughs]
[Shri Mataji speaks aside]
How to love? Our idea of love comes to us from our ego. Love means- a husband or a lover should bring a flower for you and the wife must smile, whether you feel like smiling or not, you should smile. The whole idea of love is some sort of a make-believe. But they are right to say that “we fall in love” so we fall, that you have to fall, you cannot rise in love. [Laughs] And so many Sahaja Yogis have told me that “Mother, we have not yet fallen in love”. [Laughs]
As if some piston is going to make them rush into that form or I don’t know what sort of make-believe, it is a very dramatic stuff. They will take 3 years to fall in love and 2 days to get a divorce. [Laughs]
So to describe love the way human beings understand is impossible. It is all nonsense. It is all done through your ego. You have to do it from your heart, but where is the heart? It is all covered with ego. So, the idea of love is nothing but a very subtle expression of your ego. Whether it is a mother’s love or a father’s love this “I” is there. Like my son, my daughter, my wife, my voleyboc [?] [Laughs] and this my and mine is not love.
We want that we should love others, how can you love when you analyze everything about everyone? You deaden the person completely by this. For example, I love this flower, I want to love this flower. So as a human being I will cut its throat, take out every petal, make a nice paste out of it and then eat it and then say “I really loved it”. This is not the way love is. It is a state of your heart. Really, the love is a feeling of giving, feeling of so called sacrifice, people call it sacrifice. Like somebody said to Me, “oh! are You sacrificing Your Holidays”. It is giving. And the joy of giving is the love, but when you try to judge and decide on very material level everything, then it becomes the farce. Supposing you have a lover who has been to -say- in the military of Switzerland. So he comes back home and he has already grown a big moustache, and he goes on twisting his moustache and he says “you haven’t yet saluted me”. [Laughs] Then, he puts his left foot ahead then the right foot on the side, then he goes into at ease pose and then says “it’s alright, let us kiss” [Laughs] And then you do two-three left right and go near him now he measures the angle of your forehead and then he just touches you and finished again like a swing.
[a big and sudden noise; Shri Mataji speaks aside]
That is so, that is not love. It is the state of mind one has to achieve. There you do not judge anyone, [the translator does not understand and Shri Mataji repeats] you don’t judge anyone. You know there is a defect, but you envelope it with your love, make a beautiful pearl out of that. Like the sun shine that is spreading everywhere, it does not see any defects and count the leaves, it just gives and gives and gives. That’s how one has to achieve that state where you just give without consideration of my-my or material considerations and other nonsensical gross methods of approaching it. Allow your heart to melt it, allow love to slip and you are enjoying it, nobody else, you really enjoy it. If others get angry with you so what, if they say anything nonsensical, so what, you are not enjoying them, you are enjoying yourself. This is real love and not a farce. For love I have to write books. If all the oceans become the ink and the sky becomes paper, I cannot write. It is so beautiful, it is so energy giving, it is so radiant. I cannot tell you how many words one can have for that.
You achieve that love, that ‘s real love not the way human beings describe it. It gives forgiveness that you enjoy. It gives complete confidence; it gives you complete self respect and respect of another person. It is the communication of the Spirit with others, it’s not rational, it may not be logical. We cannot explain how God grace for it. For example an archbishop of black magic gets Realization. I am [?] enamored, I am enamored by the grace. Those who were going to hell are given the beauty of the Self. Can you describe it in human words, you cannot. This is love
[The talk stops at 30:29.
32:26 Shri Mataji speaks to a baby…..
The French Yogis had given a list of questions; the first one was about how to love others, and the second one was about the Swaddisthan, the function of liver and of Europe in the world, and the problems of the left Swaddisthan….
Shri Mataji starts to talk again around 42 minutes about the public program She gave in Australia, saying that Australian are more open-minded towards Realization than Europeans. For example, the place where She gave this public program was related to a synagogue and She did not know it. So the first day when She talked about Jesus Christ, the Jews who were there said that it was alright but that She could have talked about Moses first….
A baby cries…
Shri Mataji starts the talk at 47:02]
“Now the first question that comes to us you know is how to look after your Swadishthana, because as I said that Europe is the liver of the world. The function of liver is to eliminate all poisonous things that are detrimental to the growth of the being. All such things can be called as poisons. So the role of Europe is to eliminate all that is poisonous for the society, and I must say you have had great people in this country for whom I have tremendous respect and regard. One of them was Emile Zola who very clearly described the perversity of a human mind and how it gets poisoned inside.
In a book called Nana, he has described a society which is very decadent and very perverse and how it was making a man into a stupid fool. I mean he described the gentleman – something like Aristote. How one can be very stupid when he tries to bow to his lust, and a four sided woman how she could be very good wife and how she could be a horrid personality, the four sides of a woman. Then there is Maupassant another great writer, whom I read when I was very young I should say, about 13 to 14 years of age he’s very great who tried to point out to the poisons of the society. And the religious writers who were Realized souls also have been there many in France.
For example, John of Arc is another example of a powerful woman. Her powers were of virginity. An ordinary farmer’s daughter could controlled an army through her virginity. You don’t have to see whether they were successful or not, but we have to see that they very clearly and boldly showed or expressed in their lives the existence of Divinity and of purifying power of liver.
Now we have many types of poison in the human beings. The first one is the physical. If you start taking poison within you, gradually your liver goes wrong. As a challenge to this universal liver, people started brewing wine into an alcohol. There are two things: wine is different and alcohol is different. Now, this wine or this alcohol, what we normally drink in Europe, spoils the liver within us and the universal liver also. Our liver is symbolic of the liver of the Primordial Being or we can say our liver is one of the cells of the largest liver, I mean the European liver. So, the responsibility of Europeans has been to remove the poisons of this universe, not the consumption of it, and then boast it off. This liver that exists as Europe could have been alright, but so many types of poisons have settled down in this country, that people could not overcome.
It’s a very vicious circle as far as the liver is concerned, because liver sustains our attention. If you do not try to keep your attention on purification anything like alcohol also intoxicates your attention, so your awareness becomes dull. This dull awareness helps you to forget the so called “realities of life”. Thus you start accepting it more and more, just to get out of this, or sort of escape out of the present – now, to be. And the whole system of European people became intoxicated. They started living in a make believe world. By taking these alcohols one becomes more impressed by its subconscious, I mean you live more in the subconscious.
And the beginning of subconscious starts from the sexe. So when you start moving on that line, the extreme point becomes most important. So, the whole descent leads you up to sexe point.
Now, why all the prophets were against alcohol, because once you take alcohol the vicious circle starts you start losing your human value. Then compromises start in life in saying “what is wrong in taking a little alcohol”. If the dharma or our sustenance gets disturbed by these poisons intoxicating our health, then the basis on which we stand starts shattering. So, at this- at this point one starts thinking of, in this conflict, starts thinking of God and religion, but that too has a biased of this liver intoxication. For example, people took to ascetics. Catholicism in this country became very common, but they did not put any clamping on the drinks. In the beginning they did, but gradually that was the thing they relaxed. When your awareness is disturbed even your ideas about sex get disturbed. You start compromising with your sexual behavior. So, a kind of a funny conflict came upon human beings that they have to be ascetic and they take alcohol, by taking alcohol they lose all their values about sex and they don’t know what to do with them. So, all the nuns and all the ascetic people, inside them they are so disturbed, but outside they had to wear an artificial life of asceticism.
I asked a friend of My husband one day, very clearly “what happens to you when you get drunk”. He says that “I developed a new type of attachment for women and their body. I did not respect them as sisters or mothers, but I liked them as women”. Like a human being becomes an animal and he sees the other side of a sex as something as another animal. So, all the beauty that human beings have developed of married life and of virginity and of respect of women, is lost. The- another thing I found out from him that he told me that other friends of his, some of them started looking at their own sisters as women. The fathers started looking at their daughters as women, and the mothers started looking at their son, as a man. So, these sublime relationships which are existing in human beings, as the evolution has given them, is a special aptitude to develop this society of human beings, where the relationships are of different degrees, was lost.
When this happens in any human being, compared to other human beings, he feels that he is something inferior to others in his heart [box?] or he has done a mistake or a sin or something, a guilt, in his heart [box?], he feels that way. He starts fighting his own being, the sustenance the human being as he is : pure. He starts fighting his own purity, sense of purity function. And then he starts rebuilding himself on new premises by saying that “oh! I haven’t done wrong, this is all nonsense, we should not have believed into it”, like a thief who becomes a robber after committing three or four thefts. And that’s how he concludes, or gets over his conflict, because he doesn’t want to live every moment with that conflict. The problem is when the liver gets affected, the confidence in oneself also becomes very-very low.
Now, as a Mother I will never blame anyone. I should take the blame on Myself. The reason is that when the Incarnations came on this earth, all these Incarnations or Prophets talked against alcohol, but they should have very clearly explained, that these alcohols are poisons and they are the creation of some devils who have been able to ferment them and they have created for the use of the destruction of this world. Say – supposing they had told that this is an atomic bomb, nobody would have drank, but they did not say, they just said “don’t drink”. By saying that only they created a problem for human beings. Because if you say “no” to them then they do it ten times, that’s how the children are. And once they get into the habit of drinking then there is no way of return.
But, for example, Christ did not talk against alcohol, because his job was different. Another thing, Krishna never talked against alcohol. Rama never talked against alcohol. To that extent, I would say none of the Incarnations ever talked against alcohol, except for the Primordial Master. And when these Prophets told “don’t drink”, as I told you, the people who are told, are the greatest drunkards. First of all, Europeans being the liver, were very conscious of it. And their conscience itself was so far in their guru, that they went against it with very great force. Just to overcome their conscience, the ego thought : “better put it down by drinking it”. We can say the Muslims now, Mohammed Sahib has very plainly said that Muslims people should not drink. He said “no intoxication should be taken”, but first they started smoking they said he never said don’t smoke. There was no smoke at that time, He didn’t know that human beings are going to develop smoke after him, and He also did not know that there will be something like LSD and bhang and all this nonsense. Otherwise, He would have said that “you should not have bhang, you should not have charas, you should not have this, you should not have that because that is poison, that it spoils your awareness, you become this, your society will be spoilt” but He didn’t think that human beings wouldn’t use their wisdom.
All these great Incarnations lacked their human achieveness, I should say, human understanding. They could never understand that these human beings are so childish and they could be so stupid. Moreover, they had to do some other type of work with which they were busy. But a Mother understands and that’s why she forgives, and she knows that you have to tell them very clearly about it. You have to give them a complete counsel, complete understanding.
[1:18 end of audio tape on amruta) This is the following on French CD and does not exist here on amruta.]
…about the dangers of these poisons , how far they harm you physically, mentally and emotionally So one has to remember after coming to Sahaja Yoga that if our attention is not clear, the light of the Spirit will not shine.