1989-06-15 Public Program in Toronto

YOGI: Shri Mataji has arrived and I would like to tell you that I have been with Her for about thirteen years and I have seen the miracles that She has performed in giving people the experience that they have sought for lifetimes. She is renowned in India as the greatest living saint, She is known throughout
Europe. In Italy, they have recognized Her as the Mother and I hope in North America you recognize who She truly is. And She has come here to give you all that you have been seeking for lifetimes and the only need to do tonight is to have an open mind, the mind of a scientist – not deny it, but just listen to what Mother has to say and have the experience and when you have the experience you cannot deny it, because no scientist denies the results of his experiments. So I hope you will all have this experience of self-Realization and I now present Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi.

SHRI MATAJI: I bow to all seekers of truth. At the very outset, it should be understood that truth is what it is. We cannot organize it, we cannot change it, we cannot conceptualize it. So, if we have some ideas about truth, we have to know that it is to be known to us.
This is what is called as the self-knowledge. Through self-knowledge, only you can know the truth. Before self-knowledge is not possible because whatever we know through our mental efforts, through our emotional feelings is relative. We find a person falls in love with someone – and after ten days you find him walking to a divorce case. We find a person who says, “This is the best way for us” – and after some time we find he is in great trouble. In every way, we find that whatever we say is true before Self Realization, is very relative. It may be all right, it may not be all right, it may work out, it may not work out – there is no definiteness about it. Especially the mental projection, as it is, always moves in a linear direction and then it recoils back upon you. But self-knowledge is a thing where your self is the one which gives you the wisdom of the Divine. But the light of the self comes in your attention, then in that light, you know what is the truth. For example, somebody is standing with a snake in his hand and it is all darkness – you tell that person, “This is a snake”, he is not going to believe you. He’ll say, “All right, I don’t think so, I believe it is a rope.” So, no use arguing with such a person. Best is to put the light on – so let him have a look at it and then he just drops out the snake. In the same manner, when the self-knowledge comes into our awareness we start feeling the All-pervading power which is described as Ruah, described as the All-pervading power of God’s love, described as Brahma Chaitanya

call it by any name – for the first time you start feeling on your fingertips. You have never felt it before. Now when you start feeling it on your fingertips, these centres that are there are the sympathetic centres five, six and seven on the left-hand side, same sympathetic, on the right-hand side we have seven centres. So, you start feeling them. Feeling your own centres and feeling the centres of others when this enlightenment comes on your central nervous system. We have become human beings through our evolutionary process. We don’t realize how much better evolved we are than the animals. For example, if you want a dog or a horse to pass through a very dirty lane he’ll just walk through, it’s not bothered, but for a human being, it’s an impossible situation. In so many ways we are evolved, but there is a little bit left – this last breakthrough has to work out about which all the saints have written that, ‘you should know thyself’. If you do not know yourself, then you cannot know anything about God. No use talking about God, about religion. Now you find that people who follow any religion whatsoever, any religion– say maybe a Hindu, Christian, Muslim, Sikh – any religion he may be following, he can commit any sin. There is no restriction. Nobody says, “I cannot commit this sin, because I am such and such.” So, there is no compulsion to remain holy by the following anything. So, there is something missing about it which one has to know – what is the point we have missed. There’s nothing wrong in any religion, all these great prophets were born on the Tree of Life, like living flowers, and they were plucked by us and then we say, “This is mine, this is mine”, and we are fighting – but actually they all belong to one Tree of Life. So, what was the common thing that they talked and which we have missed in practically in every religious seeking was this: that we have to seek the eternal, we have to seek the eternal and the transitory is to be used in moderation, in its own limitation and in its full understanding.
Today’s problems of ecology, this, that – all these things come from human error and the human error is because they have not found out the eternal. When you find out the eternal then you become a balanced personality, absolutely a balanced personality and the balance comes from divine wisdom. All the problems today are because human beings are not at that level of self-knowledge, because human beings are still relatively living. One person thinks this is good, another thinks this is good and that’s how we exploit each other, we exploit the nature, we create problems and everything repels on us because transitory things as you know are transitory because they have the inbuilt quality to get destroyed.
They get destroyed and gradually we learn from them how to destroy. But human beings are the epitome of evolution. God has created human beings as the highest creation. Maybe we have been given freedom, complete freedom to choose. If we want to go to heaven we can go, if we want to go to hell, we can go. So, this freedom we have been acting on, we can say as trial and error, error and trial, and ultimately a stage has to reach where we start thinking, what mistake did we commit? Where did we go wrong? And there we have to realize that the eternal we have not sought. We see this miracle – say of flowers – we see the flowers, how beautiful they are, created by nature. We can’t create even one of them. Spontaneously they appear according to the different categories they belong to. The choice,
such a big choice – all this and many other such living things are done by this divine power. But we take it for granted, we just take it for granted and the greatest thing that has happened is that, that today human beings are brought to this level that now they have become divine computers. They can become divine computers. It’s a very beautiful thing that is ahead of us – the only thing we should know that we have to grow into that new awareness. This is called as the one that we call knowledge. Knowledge is not mental knowledge, by reading you do not become. Kabira once said that by reading too much the great learned people have become stupid. First, I used to think, how can that be? [SOUNDS LIKE:
Badi, badi pantita murrachaweiy [?]. I used to think, by reading how can people become stupid? The thing is when you read all others are in your head, but you are not there. And this is, I find today, that we think by reading we’ll become the knowledge. Knowledge will be, but that’s not absolute knowledge, that’s not. That is relative knowledge. To get to the absolute knowledge you have to become something, you have to become the Spirit. And once you become the Spirit this knowledge is just manifested. It can be manifested even in a little child and a child can know. It’s a subjective knowledge, you can say, but absolute. It is not arbitrary, it’s collective. You put ten children who are realized and ask them, what’s wrong with this person? Immediately they’ll raise the same finger.
This is the thing. Now ask that person, something wrong with your throat? Are you suffering from some trouble? He’ll say, “Yes, how do you know?” These children are telling Me. So only the decoding is needed afterwards that – what’s wrong with you, what finger is burning? What is the problem and what does it relate to? You have to just know how to correct it. And once you know the art of correcting it, you can correct and you can perfect it. It’s very easy to master this art. Of course, you must know you can’t pay for anything like this. How much did we pay to the Mother Earth when She sprouted the seeds? If it’s a living process you don’t pay for anything. Living processes do not understand money. How can you pay for these flowers when you have to pay to the Mother Earth? Of course, you can pay to the florist – that’s a different point, but to the Mother Earth you cannot pay. She does all the job without any payment. In the same way, this is a living process and you must know that you cannot pay for it. Anybody who says that “I’m doing God’s work, I’m doing this work for the emancipation of your soul,” and all that and takes money – tell him that he should redeem his own soul first. You cannot pay for it, you cannot put in the effort also, because it is a spontaneous thing. Sahaja means Saha … with, ja …born with you – is the right of this union with the Divine, is the Yoga. For this you cannot pay, nor can you command, nor can you demand. You cannot ask – it just works. So, it’s so simple. Now some people say, “Mother, how can it be so simple?” Anything that is vital, isn’t it simple? As soon as we are born, we know how to breathe. Who teaches us how to breathe? Automatically we start breathing. Anything that is important has to be simple, cannot be complicated. Now about this subject, I must have given thousands and thousands of lectures in the English language itself, leave alone other languages. So, there’s
no end to it but as I always say that when we come in this room, we see so many lights – the only thing we have to put on one switch and the lights are there. If I start telling you the history of light and the source of these lights and the electricity, from where it has come, you’ll be just fed up, but it’s all built-in. So why bother, just have the lights on. In the same way, it’s all built-in within you all these beautiful things, these centres and chakras. Of course, we have to admit one thing, that in the West this civilization has grown like a tree outside, but it has not sought its roots. This is the knowledge of the roots and without the roots, the tree cannot exist and the roots have no meaning if there is no tree. So, it is all inter-dependent, so we must have the knowledge of the roots and we have to know all about it. It is very simple and you all can become masters.
May God bless you all!
SHRI MATAJI: I want to have some questions from you. Questions should be related to the subject because I have not come here to seek any money, seek any power or votes or anything. I’ve come here to tell you what is for the benevolence of your being and as a result of a collective, in the sense, emancipation of humanity. So please ask Me positive questions which will help you.

Aside: Can you get … [ Mala ?]
FEMALE SEEKER: When you walked in …when you walked in … when you walked in I have seen one big energy here, of purple – is it my [power?] or Your energy?
YOGI: (to the seeker:) Could you repeat that I couldn’t follow.
(to Shri Mataji:) I think, apparently, she is saying, when You walked in, she saw some big energy force. (to the seeker:) Is that right?
FEMALE SEEKER: When Shri Mataji walked in, I could see one purple energy.
YOGI: Purple?
FEMALE SEEKER: Purple energy.
YOGI: Aha!
FEMALE SEEKER: And I was wondering if it’s my energy or if it’s Her energy, means … [INDIST.]
SHRI MATAJI: (laughing) What’s that?
YOGI: She said, when You walked in, she saw some purple energy and she is wondering whether
it is her energy or Your energy.
SHRI MATAJI: You see all these seeing things are out of the question because if you see something
you are not that. Supposing you see the light – then you are not the light. So it’s not important. We have to be the light, we have to be the energy.
(to the audience:) Yes, please!
SEEKER: Yes, you were talking about the tree, were You talking about the Tree of Life, or were you talking about the roots of the tree?
SHRI MATAJI: I …
YOGI: When You are talking about the tree, are you talking about the tree of life?
SHRI MATAJI: Of course!
ANOTHER SEEKER: Shri Mataji, I would like to know who was your spiritual teacher? [INDIST.:
SOUNDS LIKE: As you belong to a spiritual teacher as You are
YOGI: He is asking who was Your spiritual teacher?
SHRI MATAJI: (laughing) Who was the spiritual teacher of Christ? I had no teacher.
SEEKER: You had no teacher?
SHRI MATAJI: There’s no need to have a teacher. When you become the Spirit, you are your own teacher. You can be born like that. But of course, there must be something about Me which is better than you discover it through your self-knowledge.
(to the audience:) Yes, please!
ANOTHER SEEKER: The gentleman who is standing beside you said that in Your presence we will experience some sort of spiritual power.
SHRI MATAJI: Yes [INDIST. ]
SEEKER: Ah, I ‘m a candidate who would like to experience.
YOGI: (to Shri Mataji:) He says that I told them that in Your presence they would experience –will have a spiritual experience and he says that he is a candidate and he would like the experience.
SHRI MATAJI: Very good! You are a real sadakar, a real seeker. What a beautiful question, thank you very much.
ANOTHER SEEKER: Yeah, what I would like to know is that, once you reach that state of your own Kundalini, are there any possibilities that you can lose it?
YOGI: (to Shri Mataji:) He says, once you achieve that status– is it possible that you can lose it?
SHRI MATAJI: No, you don’t lose it, but it’s like a loose connection sometimes.
(Shri Mataji laughing & laughter) You understand, the electricity it could be little loose sometime. So, you have to work it out and learn how to make it really permanent – that’s all. But you don’t lose it as such, energy is there and your connection is there but it does happen sometimes that it’s a loose connection. Mostly I’ve seen people get their Realization – then they start thinking about it. You can’t think about it, it’s beyond thinking. Then you start thinking, “Oh I’ve got it already, I am on top of the world, now what is it?” But it must be established, it’s very important and you must know what it is. Of course, for all that you don’t have to pay, you don’t have to do anything, but you have to give some time. Why do we have watches? To save time. Save time for what? [audience laughs]
For fixing your connections.
FEMALE SEEKER: Once you have got the energy all over your mind have you known anybody that uses that power, that energy to do evil or maybe turns themselves into self-styled or to do evil to others [INDIST.]?
SHRI MATAJI: Oh [INDIST.], I can’t hear this noise.
YOGI: She is saying that once you get this power – do you know of anyone who after getting this power uses it for evil.
SHRI MATAJI: No, you can’t. It’s a – you can’t use, it’s for your benevolence, for your hita – you can’t use it. You just can’t do it. If you even start thinking of something evil, the energy will disappear, immediately. You can’t be evil. You become saints, you become angels.
SEEKER: You are saying that your motives are altruistic [commentary …?].
SHRI MATAJI: What does he say?
SEEKER: However, we have certain expenses, such as flowers, tickets, [preps…?]. How do you pay for that?
SHRI MATAJI: What’s happening?
YOGI: (to Shri Mataji:) Let me answer that question. Those of us who invited Shri Mataji to Toronto paid for the flowers. As far as the ticket goes, Shri Mataji usually buys her own ticket.
SHRI MATAJI: Are you interested in money so much?
SEEKER: No! (Laughter)
SHRI MATAJI: Actually, you see, it should not be because I shouldn’t pay for your salvation, should I? It’s not good, this doesn’t give you self-respect, but in the beginning, I have to do it, I know, it’s not good.
There is no harm in paying for My ticket. By God’s grace, My husband is a rich man, I should say in a rich family and My mother’s family is also rich enough by God’s grace. And they don’t mind spending this money because they know that this is the emancipation of human beings. Of course, the hall, I think,
is taken by the people who are here, who think they have achieved something – like drunkards, you see, when they want to share their drinking, they can also arrange a hall, just to enjoy. In the same way, those who are drunk in the beauty of God’s Love must have arranged this hall and must have paid for it. But I
hope you don’t want me to pay for that also.
(Shri Mataji laughing & laughter)
SEEKER: I just have [a simple question?]. … [INDIST.]
… expenses, I just wanted …
SHRI MATAJI: Yeah! Yes, you see – what I’m saying that of course, you have to pay for the aeroplane, you have to pay for the hall, but you don’t have to pay for Self-Realization. You don’t have to pay for self-knowledge, you don’t have to pay if you get cured automatically by the Kundalini awakening. But the hall you have to pay. But there are people who also give free halls to us, there are people – but it would be very beggarish I think to have even the hall begged from someone free. It’s a question of self-respect.
ANOTHER SEEKER: Mataji, I have been a devotee all my life and – to Mother, to life – and still recently I got sick with leukaemia cancer, do You think I have done something wrong?
YOGI: He says he has been a devotee of the Mother and of life for all his life, but still he has been ill with cancer and leukaemia – has he done something wrong?
SHRI MATAJI: You have done nothing wrong but in ignorance, we commit mistakes, isn’t it? Leukaemia is absolutely curable through Sahaja Yoga, absolutely! You don’t have to do anything. Ignorance is such that unless and until you are connected with the Divine whatever we do is like telephoning without our connections. The connection has to be established. So you have done nothing wrong but as you have been dedicated to Mother you have every right to get cured completely. Sahaja Yoga has cured. We don’t give any medicine – it’s only your Kundalini when it rises automatically you get cured. All right?
FEMALE SEEKER: Oh Mother, can You explain the awakening of the Kundalini and the experience
SHRI MATAJI: Will you get up who is speaking?

FEMALE SEEKER: Oh, Mother Mataji. Can You explain to the people here the process when your Kundalini is awakened and the experiences that one gets like I experienced and it’s very frightening?
for people who [INDIST.SOUNDS LIKE: recently meditated and who is around You] – and you can’t explain it properly.
SHRI MATAJI: That I am going to do now only.
FEMALE SEEKER: Like that, I had some experience, like hissing a snake, like a little bit of [levitation?], like I can hop like a frog, I can do so many things, you know? It’s frightening. (Laughter)
SHRI MATAJI: All that’s all wrong, you can see, we don’t have to become frogs or earthworms.
(Laughter)
FEMALE SEEKER: [INDIST.]
SHRI MATAJI: My child, use your brains. (Laughter) I mean, imagine somebody says, “You have
to hop like a frog”, breaking your bottoms (Laughter) – absurd! All these absurd propositions
have no meaning. Anything you talk about Divine it has to be based on scriptures. We have
scriptures and scriptures who have written, seek yourself.
FEMALE SEEKER: Oh Mother, It’s [INDIST.] Kriya Yoga by Swami Vivekananda [??].
Shri Mataji: Ah, …
YOGIS: (laugh) [INDIST!]
SHRI MATAJI: …you see now I don’t want to bring controversies but Sahaja Yoga is A-Kriya Yoga, A-Kriya.
FEMALE SEEKER: The book explains all [INDIST.].
SHRI MATAJI: All right, why I tell you, how will I explain, why. Please be seated one minute, I’ll explain to this lady. A-Kriya-Yoga is like this: suppose you have to start a car if the car has started and ignited then automatically all the parts of the car started working. In the same way, when Kundalini starts moving, all these things like Bhandas and [INDIST.] take place automatically – you wouldn’t even know about it! But Kriya Yoga is that you take out the wheel and start moving it from outside artificially. They cut even the tongue of the people. Last time when I came in 1973 …71, I found people had their tongues wagging like dogs. They had cut it, and what was said that you have to take it back and this is a [Kaicheri ?]. Nonsense! Absolute nonsense! You don’t have to do anything outside, artificially. It just works,
because everything is built within. I was shocked to see such prominent doctors from India, such prominent engineers from India had cut their tongues, finished with all their money and were there just living like cabbages. You become dynamic. How can you be recluses? If it’s that energy, which is the energy, which gives you comfort, which cures you, which nourishes you. That’s the energy which gives you all the counselling, the energy that gives you physical vitality, that energy which redeems you – do you think you’ll become stupid people? Use your brains.
Now there’s one gentleman who was standing for quite some time, so I’ll give him some time.
SEEKER: I have two questions. Number one: we hear so much about meditation, TM, the power of Realization, and so on.
SHRI MATAJI: All right.
SEEKER: Could you please explain to us what’s the difference between what you are teaching and what you are saying and what others have been teaching?
SHRI MATAJI: Yes!
SEEKER: The second question is the gentleman on the left has said that when he was initiated it took him 2 months to realize …
SHRI MATAJI: I can’t hear you.
SEEKER: … why such a big gap and what one has to do to achieve that state.
YOGI: His first question is what is the difference between what You are telling them about Realization
and what others have talked, like TM and so on – about.
SHRI MATAJI: TM doesn’t say about self-Realization – I am sorry, TM never talked of self-Realization. They cannot.
What’s the second question?
YOGI: The second question was he was asking why with some people it takes longer to feel the vibrations because I mentioned that it took me two months to feel vibrations and it takes some people quickly, much quicker.
SHRI MATAJI: Ah! So, this was from him. Some people do take more time because this gentleman who is here – you see – was analyzing. You know he is a scientist and, I know, he is an aeronautical engineer. So, he had read all the books that are possible, had been to all guru-shopping that was possible. So, he’s so conditioned. So, naturally, if you are that conditioned you to have a too little bit work it out. But also, you don’t feel, after Realization also, if this centre is not all right. This is the centre of Vishuddhi and it looks after your cervical plexus and your nerve cervical now, if it’s been numbed by something then you don’t feel the vibrations. But others can say if the Cool Breeze is coming out of your head. But normally if you have led a very balanced life and have not been to all kinds of false people and that you are not very much full of your ego then it works very fast. Some people don’t feel but don’t you worry, most of you are going to feel it.
So many questions in Toronto! (Shri Mataji laughing)
FEMALE SEEKER: Mother, do you believe in reincarnation and if so, can you please talk about it – reincarnation.
YOGI: She is asking if You believe in reincarnation and if You can talk about it?
SHRI MATAJI: I mean, of course, I believe in it. But what is there to talk about it? (Laughter)
You will know such a lot, you have patience. Sahaja Yoga is an ocean of knowledge. Ocean of knowledge. He is an aeronautical engineer, went to all kinds of gurus and all that. Today he is an expert on Sahaja Yoga and there are many you have here also who been experts. So, knowledge is so much. Gradually you will know each and everything very easily, you don’t have to exert about everything. Even if I say, “I believe in something”, why should you accept it? Why should you accept whatever I say? You have to see for yourself and know for yourself.
FEMALE SEEKER: Because I do believe! Ahm …
SHRI MATAJI: You are also believing blindly. And if I tell you also, it will be blind. So better is to see for yourself.
FEMALE SEEKER: Right, I have seen, but I would like to know, ahm …
SHRI MATAJI: It is there.
FEMALE SEEKER: Because I believe You still know more than I do.
SHRI MATAJI: Yes, yes, you will know everything, madam. Everything! But your attention will be now more not on these things but about self. Attention shifts.
SEEKER: Ah – You posed a question to me about; did Jesus Christ have a teacher? And His teacher was God. So, I was wondering if that God is Your spiritual teacher. When You do meditate, do You meditate upon a light, or is it, do You meditate upon Krishna as [it back?] literature, is it Krishna or is it…?
SHRI MATAJI: Just now you don’t have to meditate on anything, you just get your Realization. Then gradually you will know how to meditate. See, they will tell you – because we’ll have a course, you see, of about, I think, four, five lessons they want to give you one by one to tell you how to meditate. Actually, you don’t meditate, you are in meditation. But how to establish that meditation will be seen individually also. Supposing you have a certain centre which is caught up, say, then they will tell you, this is the centre that is caught up and this is what is to be cleared out, and what is the Deity on that centre and that’s how you have to do. It’s very, very simple, but very scientific and precise, so you don’t have to hear, you yourself will know.
ANOTHER SEEKER: Mother, it’s a privilege talking to You: is it necessary for me, myself, to come back again and again and get born?
SHRI MATAJI: What he said?
SEEKER: Is it necessary to come back on this planet, this Mother Earth, to take re-birth? To come back incarnation again and again, is it necessary? If you have this deep self-knowledge, can you get moksha?
SHRI MATAJI: After Realization.
YOGI: You mean after getting your Realization?
SEEKER: Yes, but can’t you get more …?
SHRI MATAJI: No, not necessary at all – but you do take [birth?], because you want to help others, you see?
SEEKER: I understand that part …
SHRI MATAJI: Ah! But you are free, you need not, you become absolutely free, if you want, you will, otherwise you will not. It depends on your own choice, it’s your own desire, but you want to do it because you want to help people.
SEEKER: I would love to help people…
SHRI MATAJI: That’s good!
SEEKER: … even today! But I’m not sure, whether I want to come back? Because during that period of in-transit [transition?] I think I will forget what I may have achieved? There may be some of us left over like from previous lives [INDIST.]. I have been seeking for years …
SHRI MATAJI: Now, forget the past. And forget the future. In the present just remember, you have to receive your Realization. Just be in the present! All right? May God bless you!
Now, so many (Shri Mataji laughing) – everybody is asking questions? Yes!
FEMALE SEEKER: I have to come back. I believe in energy, pure energy and when I love to see it, but to observe her I can see energies in different colours so it’s this what I … You said to me when I see it then I am not there. But you know what I mean. So, what– ah?
Shri Mataji: She is saying she sees the energy?
YOGI: Yes. She sees colours.
SHRI MATAJI: Now, you won’t see that anymore.
FEMALE SEEKER: But I won’t, I am not seeing, I am feeling it and I may, ah, I think You know what I mean, it’s something you don’t think that she has …
SHRI MATAJI: No, no – that’s true, but what I am saying, by seeing if you don’t achieve anything, you don’t get any knowledge. You see, it’s a – you will know why you see. You will know why you see also and you will be corrected, all right? Just have patience with yourself. Just have patience. Because seeing these things do not give you joy, do not give you any power but once you are realized you can raise the Kundalini of others. It’s like one light which is enlightened can enlighten another. But if you are sticking on to something like this, “I see the energy, I want to see this, I want to do that”, – that’s not going to help. What am I doing about it? Is it going to help humanity? Is it going to help me? What’s the use of seeing all these things, doing all these things – just ask this question. As simple as that. I have to give some meaning to my life, isn’t it? What is the meaning of my life if I just see things and I say, supposing I’ll go and tell Indians that I have seen Niagara Falls, so what? It’s in my eyes. (Laughter)
SEEKER: Shri Mataji, uhm, I have been trying to work with You for about one year now, and I have skills that are causing me like this all the time. One is my first great experience is with Christ and I had many great moments working with You but occasionally I take Your picture and put it in my drawer for three months and I go back saying things to me about worshipping only Christ and I only [INDIST.], I don’t think I have this skill – but what do You say about..?

SHRI MATAJI: What’s he saying? He is a Sahaja Yogi?
YOGI: I don’t know what he is. He says he has used Your picture and he has made great experiences but he says he also had good experiences when he has meditated on Christ, so he sometimes puts Your picture away and feels …
SHRI MATAJI: No, no, ¡no!
YOGI: … there’s a conflict.
SHRI MATAJI: There is no difference between Me and Christ. What’s the difference? Not at all! Who told you that there is a difference?
SEEKER: [INDIST… as Christ said.?]
SHRI MATAJI: Not at all, He existed at that time, I exist now – that’s the difference. And he has talked about Me also. So, it’s all right, makes no difference. Who told you there is a difference?
SEEKER: He did! (Shri Mataji laughing & laughter) That’s the problem.
SHRI MATAJI: You have to integrate, you have to understand the integration of all the incarnations, of all the prophets, you have to understand that. They are all in one.
Once Guru Nanak was sleeping, and they said, “Your feet are towards the Mecca.” He said, “All right, I’ll move My feet.” He moved his feet on the other side and they said again, “It’s towards Mecca.” Who was Guru Nanak? And who was Mohammed Sahib? And who is Me? That all is to be understood. You see, when Rama came, they said, “We believed in Parashurama because Parashurama was dead.” It’s nice, somebody who is dead you put him in the pocket. Parashurama was the same as Rama. Then came Shri Krishna – they said, “We believe in Shri Krishna – ah, we don’t believe in Shri Krishna, we believe in Rama.” Whatever is dead being better to believe in that, but today I am before you. There’s no difference between Me and Him or Nanaka, anyone, they are all Mine. We are all related to each other, there is no difference at all. Even this much. The only difference could be that today the time is a blossoming time, we have so many seekers and I can give en-masse Realization. They also said the same things, Seek yourself!” But Christ lived only for four years – what do you expect anybody to do in four years? I was in London for four years struggling with seven hippies. I couldn’t give them Realization, I thought that this West is all wasted, I may not be able to work it out at all. (Laughter) Four years – can you imagine, I was struggling with seven hippies. (Laughter) I must say, Christ at least was better than Me, quite efficient. (Laughter) I mean, nobody listened to Him. At least you are listening to Me.
(Laughter) Isn’t it a better thing? And also, your questioning is all right, but you are not angry with Me by any chance. And you are not going to crucify Me – this is the difference. (Laughter) We are evolved! (Applause)
We are evolved now. Much more evolved, I must say.
Yes, please!
SEEKER: Shri Mataji, [INDIST….chappels…]

SHRI MATAJI: Kya…? What’s this?
YOGI: He wants to know about the experience.
SHRI MATAJI: Yes! I think you are all great people who have come here. Nobody asked Christ, they never asked Him, “Give us the experience of self-knowledge.”
SEEKER: … the answer?
SHRI MATAJI: Please be seated, just now we’ll work it out, now. Now this gentleman, now you ask some questions, again you have some questions, Sir?
ANOTHER SEEKER: Yes, [INDIST … last year.
SHRI MATAJI: I can’t hear him at all.
SEEKER: [INDIST.] I am sitting on the chair and [INDIST.] there is some stop here on my back [INDIST.] I see myself [INDIST.] like everyone [INDIST.] …
SHRI MATAJI: What’s he saying?
SEEKER: … and the bigger one, [INDIST.]
SHRI MATAJI: Yeah!
SEEKER: … and I am asking myself how it happened [INDIST.] …
YOGI: What’s your question?
SEEKER: so what I want to know is that since I have reached all that state of feeling something is coming out of my head, is that the way what you call the stage of being conscious, we can call it as the experience of the Mother of the universe [INDIST.] …
YOGI: He has had some sort of experience of this face expanding sideways and some tickling on his back – he’s asking if that’s the experience.
SHRI MATAJI: No, no, no, no – not that kind, that’s absurd. The experience is that you become thoughtlessly aware first of all and you start feeling the Cool Breeze on your fingertips, you start feeling the Cool Breeze coming out of your head, it’s the real baptism as we call it. All these experiences are not there and they are not all right – they have to be corrected.
ANOTHER SEEKER: Shri Mataji, [INDIST.] as a conscious mind and unconscious mind and we are reading from [INDIST. ?] Whereas Sahaja Yoga as such is spreading in the whole process of conscious or subconscious mind? The first one … the second one is that there is no answer to my question, you are the Christ? [??] And my third one: Why do you …
YOGI: Could you speak up, please? Can you speak up, please?
SEEKER: …[INDIST.] since You are realizing Your soul you begin to rise above the mind, on so many ways and since we have not realized, I am not Christ myself, I am not Christ, I
SHRI MATAJI: Did you follow? It’s beyond Me. What did he say?
YOGI: The first question was, where does Sahaja Yoga fit in like the conscious mind and the unconscious and Parabrahma and his second question was that after You got your Self Realization You were Christ and Guru Nanak and so on. But he hasn’t got it – so he isn’t. I don’t follow that man in all specific …
SHRI MATAJI: He didn’t follow your question.
YOGI: The second question!
SHRI MATAJI: But the – please be seated. Please be seated. All right? Now you asked a question which is intelligent and a good question should be asked about the consciousness of it. If you want to know I’ll tell you to know about it, but it is a big lecture on it and the other day in New York I talked to Jungians about the conscious, the subconscious, the collective subconscious, but you will know all about it, everything! So, I think instead of wasting too much time on it, even by knowing that, unless and until you get your Realization it is of no use. All right? So, the first thing is, you get your Realization and then you will know all about it. I must have given at least ten lectures on the construction of the unconscious and the conscious and the subconscious and the collective subconscious and the collective supra-conscious and everything. All right? That’s a very good thing you have asked Me but just now in an introductory lecture, I would not like to talk much about it. But there are lectures and lectures and lectures and they will be all available to you. But I have to tell you one simple thing that it is not the mental knowledge, it is the love of God. I am here to introduce you to His love. He is God Almighty, He is our Father, and He loves us very much and He wants us to enter into His kingdom as soon as possible. Then He looks after you every moment of your life. And you are amazed at the miracles, how He is bothered about you – this is what you must have first. I would say if you are hungry, you’ll say, “All right Mother, if You have done the cooking let me have the food.” But if you are not, then you would like to know this way, that way – what’s the use? Better have the taste of it and then you will know each and everything. You will know the people who have been realized souls before, what they talked, explanation of everything. Without that you don’t have the subtle eyes, the Sushumna to see the subtleties of what they said. So, the best thing is to get that light into your eyes, all right? So, let us now stop the questioning – it’s nine o’clock and it’s better to have it because you didn’t know how the time was passing and the Realization has to be done and I would like to meet all of you. If you give Me time, I would like to meet you, but in case if we spend our time in only questioning, how can I meet you?
REALISATION:
A few things have to be done, very simple. Those who don’t want to do it can go. You cannot force them. It has to be done in your own freedom and glory. And if you don’t want to have it’s your own choice. Nothing can be forced, this is a divine blessing which has to be asked for. As Christ has said, we have to knock – in the same way. So, it works on the principle that we are all computers and you have to ask a question to a computer like Me and then you get the answers as the Kundalini awakening – to explain it more sort of in a scientific thing. But it is a very simple method that we have to take and you have to help your centres also. As it is it works spontaneously, no doubt, but if we can little bit help our centres it expedites and later on, if you go home, you can also work it out yourself. It’s a very simple thing is – I don’t know how far he has told you about the channels, but the left side represents your emotional side and your desire to get Realization. And the right side is the action that you have to take. So, first of all, we have to take the help of the Mother Earth, and also the shoes sometimes block the awakening, so it’s better to take out the shoes for a while, just for a short time. It will hardly take ten minutes, hardly ten minutes.
Put both the feet on the ground parallel to each other, just parallel to each other and you have to be comfortable. You have to be comfortable, if there is something you find rather tight on your body you can little bit release the tightness and be comfortable. If somebody wants to go out for a while can go and come back. This – I’ll wait for them in the case because it is something that has to work out, it has to work out and I am sure it will.
Now one has to know that Realization is not complete unless and until your connection is established. So maybe today it will break through in My presence – but you have to establish and you have to know all about it because the light which is enlightened has to give light to others, must give light to others, it’s very simple.
Now I’m coming to Toronto, I was told after six years. Of course, next year I’m going to come definitely, no doubt, but still, it is you who are going to give Realization to others, it is you who are going to transform the people here – it’s your responsibility. There’s no commitment of money, there’s no commitment of anything whatsoever – except that the commitment that we have got the light and we have to give and once you start giving others, you’ll be surprised that your spiritual growth will be very fast. But if you do not give to others you will be [stranded?] and you will not know why it is happening.
The second thing is very simple about modern Sahaja Yoga we should say that first, you get your Realization, first, you get a little light within yourself and in that light, you see what’s wrong with you and you yourself drop it. Say people have given up drugs – I have not told them, they have given up so many things I’ve never told them, it just works because your own Kundalini works it out and grants these blessings to you. But you must show full respect to your Self Realization and you must show that gratitude of Divine that you are going to spread it.
We talk about so many things, disastrous things but how much we can contribute by Realization you do not know. As soon as you will start using your vibrations for giving Realizations to other people and meeting collectively, understanding it – you’ll be amazed, the whole atmosphere will start changing. I didn’t tell you how much these vibrations help for health but also for all the agriculture, animals, everything. It’s such a wonderful thing that three doctors in Delhi have got their MD who has done research on three subjects – one is the physical fitness, second is epilepsy and third psychosomatic diseases. In Delhi-University they have done it. Now there are seven doctors in London who are doing – not, it’s not research but recording how many people are cured by Sahaja Yoga. We have definitely cured the disease you are talking about, definitely! And many people have been cured. There is an architect who was described as dead – that, I mean doctors had certified that you are going to die within one month’s time, and he was saved by an English Sahaja Yogini. She saved him just by telling him how to meditate.
So, one has to first get Realization and then believe in yourself and then you’ll believe in Sahaja Yoga. There’s no blind faith needed, you have to first experience. Once you have the experience then yourself being honest, you will do it. So actually, I’m fulfilling all the prophecies of all the saints, all the desires of all the prophets and all that was asked for – that’s a very difficult task. It needs a lot of patience, understanding and love. You see it’s easy to get crucified, I tell you, even easier to take some poison and to take some Samadhi, but to work it out, day in and day out – it’s a difficult task and you really need a Mother. If it was a Krishna, He would have used his Sudarshana chakra and Rama would have taken his [Vanvyasa ?]. But I have to live with you, I have to deal with you and I have to work it out and My love has such a force that it doesn’t get tired, it doesn’t get tired at all. I wish you all love yourself the same way and understand your own glory. At the very outset, we have to understand not to feel guilty at all about anything whatsoever because you forget your past. Not to feel guilty. You are not to say that you have done this wrong, that wrong, not to count any mistakes. After all, you are human beings and only human beings can make mistakes. You are not God! So, there is nothing to condemn yourself for anything, because now if you have to enter into the kingdom of God why should you condemn yourself? You should be in a very pleasant mood towards yourself, very pleasantly placed and know that you are a human being and a little journey has to be done. It’s very simple, I really tell you it’s very simple, so do not go into any depression. Or some people also feel all the time, “Will I get it or not?” You will all get it, I tell you, I verily say you’ll all get it, but don’t be diffident about it. With this let us start now.
I’ll tell you, you put your left hand towards Me like this, to begin with, later on, we’ll go into a real awakening but just now I’ll tell you how to do it. Left hand towards Me, symbolically you are expressing your desire that you want to have your Self Realization. Then your right hand you put it on your heart, which is a centre where resides the Spirit. In human beings, it resides in the heart, so first, we put it in the heart. Then we put our hand on the upper part of our abdomen on the left-hand side. We work out everything on the left-hand side. Now here is the centre of your mastery, which is created by all the prophets and all the masters for us. So here you place it in the upper part of your abdomen on the left-hand side. Then you place it in the lower part of your abdomen, in the lower part of your abdomen on the left-hand side. This is a very important centre because this is the centre which manifests true knowledge on your nervous system. So, this is also a very important centre. Then you raise your Kundalini by putting your hand on, again on the centre of the master that is the upper part of your abdomen on the left-hand side. Press it hard. Now. Then you press again your hand on your heart. Now, you take your hand and put it in the corner of your neck and your shoulder and turn your head to your right. This is the centre you catch when you feel guilty. You feel diffident and you try to debase yourself, this is the centre you catch. So, you put your hand to your right, your hand on the left side but your head to your right. Now, stretch your hand and put the centre of your palm on – I’m sorry, then you have to put your hand on the forehead, across. Now, this is the centre – and bend your head – where you have to ask for forgiveness for others, means you have to say, “I forgive everyone.” Now some will say that it’s very difficult to forgive, but whether you forgive or you don’t forgive, it’s a myth. So, if you don’t forgive then you play into wrong hands. So better is to forgive. I find it’s very difficult for people to forgive others, even to say that and then, when they come to Me, I find they have not forgiven and they have not felt the vibrations. So, from your heart, you have to forgive when I tell you. Now put your hand on the backside of your head and push back your head on it. Here you have to ask for forgiveness from Divine, without counting your mistakes, without feeling guilty, just for your satisfaction. Now you have to stretch your hand and put the centre of your palm on top of your head, bending your head, just here where there’s a fontanel bone area which was a soft bone in your childhood. So put your right hand on top of that and press it hard, pushing back your fingers and move your scalp clockwise slowly. Seven times you have to move, but that I’ll tell you later on after you close your eyes, just now you move it seven times. Now you may have to close your eyes. Please don’t open your eyes because there’s no mesmerism in it. Moreover, your attention has to be drawn inside, so it‘s better to close your eyes, it will help you a lot if you keep your eyes closed till I tell you to open.
Now please place your left hand towards Me, and now close your eyes, keep your feet apart, and put your right hand on your heart and close your eyes. You can take out your spectacles also because it helps your eyesight. Now when you have put your hand on your heart you have to ask Me a very important question, you may call Me Shri Mataji, if you can, or you can call Me Mother – whichever suits you, “Mother, am I the Spirit?” Ask this question three times. In your heart ask the question, “Mother, am I the Spirit?” If you are the Spirit then you are your guide, you are your master and all the prophets have built in a centre in your being on the left-hand side of your abdomen in the upper part. You place your hand and press it hard and here you ask Me another question three times, “Mother, am I, my own master? Mother, am I my guide?” Ask this question three times. Now please put your right hand in the lower part of your abdomen, on the left-hand side. As I told you this is the centre of pure knowledge which manifests on your central nervous system, but I cannot force on you. You are free to choose from. I respect your freedom, so unless and until you ask Me, I cannot bestow anything like that or force you to accept anything. So, you have to say,” Mother, please give me pure knowledge.” Please say it six times, because this centre has got six petals. When you ask for pure knowledge the Kundalini starts moving upward. So, we have to open the upper centres with our self-confidence. Raise your right hand in the upper part of the abdomen on the left-hand side and say with full confidence in yourself ten times, “Mother, I am my own master.” Please say it ten times. Now the greatest truth about you is that you are not this body, you are not this mind, you are not this intellect, you are not your conditioning, you are not your emotions, you are not your ego but you are the Spirit. So please raise your hand on your heart again and say with full confidence twelve times, “Mother, I am the Spirit.” Please say it twelve times without doubting yourself. Please say it with full confidence twelve times, “Mother, I am the spirit”, which you are. Now we have to know that the Divine is the ocean of love and knowledge, it is the ocean of compassion and bliss, but above all, it is the ocean of forgiveness, and whatever mistakes we have committed can be easily dissolved by that ocean. So, we have to forgive ourselves and we have to put our hand in the corner of our shoulder and our neck and turn our head to our right and here with full confidence, we have to say sixteen times, full confidence, “Mother, I am not guilty at all.” Please say it with full confidence: You are not! Let the Kundalini judge you, you don’t judge yourself and condemn yourself. Now put your hand as far as you can, take it towards your spinal cord and turn your head to your right. As I have told you that we have to forgive everyone. You don’t have to remember whom you have to forgive, what they have done to you, what is their mistake and why they have tortured you – nothing is to be remembered. At this present moment, we have to know that we have to forgive them and this is the greatest weapon we have got, that we can forgive everyone by which we neutralize them completely. They cannot be effective on us. And let the Divine look after them. So now here you put your hand on your forehead across and bend your head and press it hard on both the sides. Here you have to say from your heart, not how many times, “Mother I forgive everyone” Believe me – only saying this from your heart you’ll feel very much relieved, very much relieved. Please say that “Mother, I forgive everyone.”
Now take back your hand, put it on the back side of your head, what you call as the [optic lobe] area and push your head on top of it and let it rest on it and here you have to say without thinking about your guilt, your mistakes, on anything, just for your satisfaction you have to say, “Oh Divine, if we have done any mistakes, if I have done any mistakes, please forgive Me.” Is for your satisfaction, but please do not try to find false with yourself. Now stretch your hand, and the centre of your hand please put it on to the soft bone that was in your childhood called as fontanel bone area and press it hard, bending your head, push back your fingers. And now you have to move it seven times, very slowly clockwise. But before that, I’m sorry that I cannot cross your freedom. In your freedom, you have to ask for your Self Realization. It cannot be forced, it’s too precious to be forced on anyone, so you have to say: “Mother, please give me my Self Realization.” And move it seven times slowly clockwise, pressing it very hard, pushing back your fingers, slowly, very slowly – please do it.
Now take down your hands, open your eyes, slowly put both the hands towards me, now put the right hand like this a little forward, bend your head and see from your fontanel bone area if you get a cool breeze coming out, but don’t touch it, keep it away and see for yourself. Some people get it very far away so be careful and watch and see for yourself if you get the cool breeze coming out of your head. Now, don’t doubt it, some people might get heat coming out, it’s alright, the heat has to come out first and then the cool breeze is coming, now put the left hand towards me please and bend your head and see for yourself if the cool breeze is coming out of your head. As it is, you are becoming thoughtless and the peace is being established within you but you see for yourself the cool breeze is coming out of your head.
Now last of all, again put your right hand towards me and again bend your head and see for yourself carefully if there is a cool breeze coming out of your head.
Now, raise both the hands towards the sky and bend back and ask a question, one of these questions you ask: Mother is this the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost, Mother is this the (Ruah?) The all-pervading power of the love of God, Mother is this the Brahma Chaitanya? ask any of these questions 3 times.
Now, put down your hands please, now watch me, you can watch me without thinking, now see in your hands if you’re feeling the cool breeze.
Maybe one or 2 fingers maybe little bit burning, doesn’t matter, suggesting your centres, now those who have felt the cool breeze out of their head, or on their fingertips, please raise both your hands.
Such a lot of people have already felt it, May God Bless you all.
I’m sorry I’ve come only for one day here and tomorrow I’ll be leaving but in case I would like to meet you, if possible and see for myself, and I hope those who have not got it will also get it, it’s already flowing, see now, you can feel it, it’s flowing very much, just see. Sometimes if this centre is not alright, but if you have not forgiven also, if you have not forgiven, some people might be feeling such a lot of breeze, I can feel it.
If you have not forgiven also, sometimes, you don’t feel it, please forgive and then come and see me if you want to, you can come now, I would like to meet you all.

SEEKER: Mother, (Inaudible)
SHRI MATAJI: Yes, please you’re welcome, One by one, please…
May God Bless you!
SEEKER: CAN YOU PLEASE PUT ATTENTION ON MY son that has been MISSING FOR 3 YEARS
SHIR MATAJI: Which one?
SEEKER: This boy, I’ve had you in my heart for 3 years,
SHRI MATAJI: really?
SEEKER: Yes
SRI MATAJI: What’s his name?
SHRI MATAJI: Mathew, Mathew? Did he send you this photograph?
SEEKER: Yes, he’s been missing in India for 3 years.
SRHI MATAJI: Where did he go? to India?
SEEKER: Yes and that’s how I got my realization… in Katmandu.
SHRI MATAJI: Really?
SEEKER: Yes ..3 years ago and I have been carrying you around
SHRI MATAJI: Now great, now we have a nice centre here, he has been doing a good job I must say
SEEKER: Please put attention on him to bring him home
SRHI MATAJI: Yes alright, May God bless him.
Yogi: Hello (indist)
Inaudible…