Interview, Press Conference, Rome (Italy), 18 May 1985.

I’m sorry, very sorry to be late but I was in tv interview there, very sorry. 

I’ll ask all of you to sit down.

[Shri Mataji speaks aside to Sahaja Yogis, also about offering refreshments to the journalists who have been waiting for quite a long time.]

[Introduction in Italian until 07:38]

Interviewer: What is the difference between Sahaja Yoga and the other kinds of yoga that we know in Europe?

Shri Mataji: This Patanjali Yoga Shastra which was used about 78 000 years back was a system he had developed to prepare people for Self-realization. That was the time when children used to go to school in the forest and lead a very celibate life till the age of 25 years. So they were taught how to discipline themselves, how to cleanse their body under the guidance of a very evolved realized soul. But the physical exercises you do here is absolutely indiscriminate because it has no relevance to the body. It has to relate to different centers – subtle centers; wherever is the problem in the center that is the exercise one has to do and that was only known to those great masters. So they have got some sort of a half-baked ideas out of a little thing out the eight part, a little bit, called as Physical Yoga which has no relevance at all, anywhere. Then if you develop too much of your physical being you neglect your emotional being, you neglect your spiritual being and you develop a very imbalanced dry personality. Anybody who overdoes it can become extremely dry and there is a problem in the society, in the family life. 

Second part of it was this Kriya Yoga as they call it nowadays, which is a misnomer, was that when the Kundalini used to rise, the ascend of the Kundalini take place then certain things used to happen within your being that would sustain the Kundalini moving upwards. That was all an automatic happening within yourself but the people who just knew about that they said, “Alright, you do it yourself like cutting your tongue, putting it in the back here so the khechari could happen. And there’re people now who’ve got tongues handing like this out of [UNCLEAR].

You see, it’s an automatic thing that happens to you. Like a car starts, automatically the wheels go. If you start moving the wheels car won’t move, on the contrary the wheel will break and you will break too with that. 

Three fourths of the Patanjali has dealt with the Kundalini awakening, what happens after Realization, how people do not sustain it, all those things are dealt with later on; about the Ritambhara PrAgnya – is the one that is the All-pervading power. Only one forth dealt with cleansing and all that.

And of course, they used to get Realization through Kundalni awakening only but there is the greatest difference between the modern Sahaj and the ancient Sahaj. It had to evolve to this state because first it was only few people were given Realization. But any discovery if it is not made public it has no meaning. So the en-mass Realization had to be achieved because it is now the time for you to have en-mass Realization, not one or two persons.

This is one of the differences, is that it is en-mass happening and the second one is the difference that formally they used to cleanse every chakra one by one. Very few people they found that are capable of one by one raise the Kundalini first to one chakra cleansed, another chakra cleansed, another …. They used to take ages to cleanse that. And sometimes in one’s lifetime they would not get Realization. 

But, you see, it is very difficult to cleanse people because when you start cleansing them their ego gets challenged and if you tell them not to do something, they will do it more. So the best thing was to put a little light into them to see for themselves what’s wrong with them. Say, there is a person holding a snake in his hand and it’s all darkness. You tell the person to throw the snake, he may not. He may on the contrary hold it much tighter. But if you let him have a little light he will see the snake and he will throw it away. 

So I thought that if the seventh center, if it can be opened out then en-mass Realization can be achieved because all the seven centers are represented in the brain. And secondly, once they feel the experience of the Spirit they will start cleansing themselves their own centers. And this is how the modern Sahaja Yoga has evolved out of the old one which was only individualistic and was given to only people who were willing to go through any kind of test and any kind of disciplining. But nowadays best is to have it this way.

Also in modern times there are many seekers who are born. These are a special category of human beings who are seekers of the Divine. They are not satisfied with whatever they have achieved through their mental projections or through emotional projections. So they want to know what is beyond. So everywhere, throughout the world there are lots of people.

I hope I’ve answered the question that you [UNCLEAR] to your satisfaction.

But yoga means “union with the Divine”, not exercise. It also means “deftness” – to know the divine laws and to handle the powers that you get. 

Interviewer: What do you mean by divine laws?

Shri Mataji: You see, divine laws are very different from what laws we make. And when we do not keep to those laws we become sick, we get mentally distressed, we get to bad habits and we go towards destruction.

Interviewer: How can it be then that a child gets sick?

Shri Mataji: Child gets sick because the mother doesn’t know, because there is something wrong with the mother, quite a lot. So if the mother is an overactive person, child becomes overactive, gets cancer of the spleen.

There is a lot of common sense also about it. Like it is said in India that if you see an eclipse of the Sun and if you are pregnant the child becomes deformed; and if you see the eclipse of the Moon and you are pregnant then the child becomes mentally deranged also. Because nature has a great play upon our life which we should understand.

Interviewer: What should be our attitude towards life once we are realized? Should we follow our nationality or just give it up and follow the Divine?

Shri Mataji: Actually all nationalities are artificial, God created only one world and he really wants people in this world to believe in one world. So all fights must end, all wars must end. You are fighting for what? After Realisation we retain all our individuality as far as …. Like an Italian will have his own individuality but he knows he is part and parcel of the whole. Who is the other? Like this finger is in its own individuality and if it is paining the another hand helps it because it is paining, because it’s part and parcel of the whole. It doesn’t feel obliged; it doesn’t feel like having a fight with this. Or the eye doesn’t fight with another eye because it’s part and parcel of the whole. But there is an individual character of everyone of them. 

Like the microcosm has to become the macrocosm – the consciousness. In our central nervous system we have to actualize the experience. It’s not just mental projection. So after getting Realization people jump into a new awareness of collective consciousness where you can feel others on your fingertips and you can feel yourself on fingertips, all the centers. If should know how to correct them you can work it out. Hands start emitting the All-pervading power, the subtle power and which you can use for giving Realization to others, curing them and giving back to the nature the vitality you have taken out.

Like in Austria a scientist who is a Sahaja Yogi has experimented and he’s seen that if you give vibrations to the plants they grow three times more, yield more. And you don’t have to use any hybrid staff, the old seeds can be regenerated again. 

We can cure cancer, we have cured AIDS. And it makes you peaceful, joyful, you look much younger in age, in health. Actually then you know what joy is because it’s only through the Spirit you can feel the joy. It is such a tremendous thing to be Spirit that you cannot explain in a short speech that so many things happen to you that it is absolutely beyond human conception. 

Interviewer: What is the difference between your spiritual movement and others?

Shri Mataji: I don’t know which one he is meaning.

Interviewer: Other current movements. 

Shri Mataji: Recently, about 70 years back, a book was written which is absolutely untraditional, has nothing to do with the traditional authentic scriptures, saying that a person can get his Realization through something called “Shaktipat“. Now there is not this word anywhere, nothing. As a result of that people take out their cloths, start jumping, shouting, some start jumping like frogs. In another one they become mad, epileptic, it’s all madness. Like we have some people here who went to these gurus, paid lot of money and came to me as sick people. This is something new they have started. And in modern times a person who is futuristic, likes to take to something modern, wants to try everything and it’s very dangerous. So one must understand that traditionally there is nothing like this, these methods they are doing, it’s very dangerous. 

What you have to get is your Realization and as a result of that you should feel absolutely on top of the world. That’s a simple test. Second test is that you cannot pay for the divine love, you cannot pay for compassion, you cannot pay for anything that is living, living work. Like if you want to saw the seed. Now you don’t pay any money to the mother earth, do you? It’s like that, it’s very simple because it is so vital. There is no circus about it, nothing. This is your right, to have Realization. How can you pay for it?

Interviewer: How long it takes to get Realization?

Shri Mataji: One split of a second, just a split of a second. But, but, but people are complicated. The central path is really [UNCLEAR] so I have to clear it out. Takes little time more, but still not much.

Any other questions you have?

Interviewer: Do you need somebody to give you Realization or can you get it by yourself?

Shri Mataji: You have to have one enlighten light to enlighten another light. Then when the another light is enlightened then that light can enlighten another light, it goes on like that. But the first one has to be enlightened. But there is no obligation, nothing, it is just love and compassion. It has nothing to do with any obligation, no commitment either. That’s the redemption takes place and then becomes comfortable also but you have to be counselled, you have to be told what is this, what are these vibrations, they have to be decoded. For that you have to attend a few lectures or maybe some centers here so that you establish yourself fully as a great master, that too freely. And that is free after all, you don’t have to pay for all that. But you have to give it some time, little bit. 

We have watches here just to save some time. But we do just the opposite. We have to save time to meditate and to establish our Realization. But we waste it with so many other things. And even five minutes of meditation can give you tremendous joy, five minutes. Only thing is one must realize that we have to be what for which we are made otherwise the purpose is not done. Like this instrument if it is not connected to the mains it is useless.

The ancient books, the Vedas and all that, they say that the one who hasn’t got the knowledge of the Divine, what is the difference between animal and that person? So he has to rise to that level which is so simple and it is your own right to have, your own property. 

If you want to solve the problems of the world, every type of problem can only be solved when the human being gets his emancipation and is transformed otherwise you cannot solve it superficially. I told them of physical, but even the problems, like say communism and capitalism, and this is wrong and that is wrong …. Now I would say I’m the greatest capitalist because I have all the powers and I am the greatest communist because I must share them. 

So all our theories which do not look perfect in practice become actualized. Because we believe, we live in a relative world but here you become the absolute. Complete integration is achieved of your mental, physical, emotional and spiritual being and everything looks so integrated that you’d be surprised. This is what we have to achieve, no doubt. But don’t know in which country it’ll work out. I think Italy is the highest marked, in my mind. India, of course, traditionally we are all made like that. Traditionally we understand that we have to be the Spirit. In India there is no problem, leave alone India. But otherwise I see Italians are another sensitive, sensible, open-hearted people, understanding sacredness also. And they don’t do ridiculous things also. 

Interviewer: Are rationality and irrationality two aspects of what you are saying?

Shri Mataji: Rationality is also superficial, it’s a mental projection. We can rationalize a murder, we can rationalize anything. But logic is different, logic is absolute. Like once you start feeling the cool breeze and you start understanding all the laws, you see a person being cured by it, you see it brings good to you and your family then you start understanding the logic of the Divine. And rationality comes from a limited brain which has a limited knowledge, brain is also not fully evolved. So what you see is limited. I am talking about the unlimited. You have to be triggered into that unlimited where the logic of the Divine you’ll understand. 

Like you see somebody, you might say he is a nice person. He may not be, he might be a very bad person. You may rationalize, “Alright, he looks nice. He is well dressed.”, whatever it is, but he may not be a good man. But with these vibrations you’ll immediately know whether he is good or bad, the absolute.

You can take very small children who are realized souls and tie their eyes and ask them to tell about the vibrations of a particular person they will all raise one finger or two fingers that these are the two fingers burning; there won’t be no difference of opinion. That’s why rational people never agree among themselves: arguments, arguments every day they’ll have.

Interviewer: In Italy we have a great proverb: the dress doesn’t make the priest.

Shri Mataji: Yes, of course, because it’s the inside. That’s true, that’s exactly the same, exactly the same. So rationality is not deep in ourselves. 

Interviewer: But allows you to live…

Shri Mataji: No, no, no, it destroys you, it really destroys us. To a person who smokes you say, “Why do you smoke?” they’ll say, “What’s wrong?” You see, in England they paint their hair pink and this, that, all that, they go about …. You say, “Why do you do this? It costs you much more to do all that.” They’ll say, “Why? What’s wrong?” And some of them have come to me, they are all becoming blind with that dye in the head but they won’t listen. “Alright, we have right to die.” How can you say, “We have right to be destroyed. This is our right to destroy ourselves.”? It’s rationality, what can you do. 

You see the trouble is, like I went to San Francisco and they said, “Why should you tell us that we should not be homosexuals? Now who are you to tell us that? Why shouldn’t we be?” 

So I said, “But it will destroy you.” “So they said, “Let it destroy us, it’s our right. How can you take our right to destroy ourselves?” Openly. This is the trouble with rationality, that it is not logical. 

Interviewer: My questions were provocative.

Shri Mataji: No, not at all, they were just the right questions which you should ask because that is how you will know what I am doing. You must ask questions. That’s important because there is your freedom, in your freedom you have to rise, nobody can force on you. There is no mesmerism here. It is your freedom and then you get ultimate freedom because you become so powerful nothing can dominate you. And you do not dominate anyone either. 

Interviewer: Sometimes there are wrong things within us. How does one get rid of them?

Shri Mataji: It is very simple. When you become the Spirit they just drop out, absolutely they disappear. You don’t have to worry as how to. It just works out because you become the Spirit. As I said, you see the light and you throw the snake, it’s like so simple as that. You don’t have to think about your past, just don’t think. It just works out. You see, the Divine is so forgiving that just works out whatever may be your past, doesn’t matter – just works out. 

An alcoholic came to see me one day in the program started shouting at me. He was so much drunk. I said, “Alright, alright. I’ll meet you tomorrow.” then he went away. Next day came to see me in the morning time, he got his Realization. He forgot what he said, everything, he shouted at me and how …. Next day he came, he got his Realization, he gave up drinking completely. He is different man, he is electrical engineer. Now he is doing his work very well. Actually I’m myself surprised the way the Divine is anxious that everybody should get Realization. It is remarkable the way people achieve it. Perhaps you all are great seekers and the Divine also is very anxious so everything is working out that way. 

Interviewer: You have been speaking about vibrations. What are they and how can we utilize them?

Shri Mataji: Vibrations are the combination of three powers within us. One is the power of existence, vital power of existence, emotional power as we can call it, the existence itself. Second is the power of action, through our mental action or physical action. And third, the power of evolution. So these things when the three of them combine with the fourth power of Kundalini then the Kundalini sort of enlightens them and they start thinking for you, coordinating for you, organizing for you and working out as if they are robot-like, but auto-robot you can call them – doing everything for you and acting. But the main thing it is love, they love, they have compassion. The compassion doesn’t speak, it acts. They do not hurt, they are compassionate, they work it out in such a way…

Now for example, supposing I tell somebody that, “Alright, you get your Realization.” but he won’t listen to me, supposing. So he goes out and he finds himself in some difficulty – say, he is driving a car, some difficulty – and then he finds somebody helps him out. 

He says, “How are you so kind?” 

He said, “Why? I am a Sahaja Yogi.”

He says, “Really?” So he comes to Sahaja Yoga. It works in such a way. It’s all a drama, I’m telling you, it’s all a play. 

As you get one with the whole the Ritambhara PrAgnya – the All-pervading power, starts flowing through you. And it knows us and we know her. Only thing we should know how to manoeuvre it, that’s all. Now this is the power that makes the fruits our of flowers, makes all living work, every living work it does. Electro-magnetic power for example is part of this, which vibrates. But who vibrates that? It’s the All-pervading power. We cannot even create a stone. If it is a stone then we’ll make a statue. If some tree is dead we make another dead thing like a sofa bed. Now this matter sits on your head because you cannot sit on the ground now. But when you become the Spirit you can even master the matter. 

Now as you’ve have seen even from my photographs people get Realization. It’s a matter but it has become enlightened I think. But to know about Sahaja Yoga you have to come into it and see with open mind, open mind of a scientist. You must see it with an open mind of a scientist then if it is true… It’s a hypothesis for you, then see for yourself. Seeing is believing. If I say you are fantastic, you are great, you are diving, everything I say you just experience it and then see for yourself. 

Like you take a television set from here to India, say, to a village. Nobody will know what it is, they’ll say it’s some box. If you tell them that, “You put it to the mains you will see all the pictures.” and this and that, they will never believe it. But you put to the mains they’ll say, “God, we never knew it was so great.” In the same way happens to ourselves. You can see the result here standing behind you. All yourselves is the result of that.

Interviewer: How can we know through the vibrations if a person is good or bad?

Shri Mataji: That it to be decoded. It is when you put the hands to somebody, just put the hands towards the person and you ask the question, “Is this a good man?” If he is good you’ll get cool breeze in the hands. If he is a horrible fellow you will get burning, maybe with some horrible gurus or devils. If you ask about Hitler… I don’t want to ask because my hands will burn. 

Interviewer: Can everybody feel the vibrations?

Shri Mataji: I mean everybody should. But some people are very problematic, they think too much. They start judging, rationalizing. You have to go beyond it, that’s the point. If you start rationalizing everything, “How can it be? How can I be so great? How can it happen?” then it doesn’t work out. And the worst thing in the modern time is that they feel guilty for nothing at all. I mean, all the time they feel guilty. Yes, they are starting to feel guilty. If you feel guilty this chakra catches and the Kundalini won’t rise at all. You are the temple of God and why should you feel guilty, about what? Divine is forgiveness, the ocean of forgiveness. So it works out but with some people takes more time.

Would you care to have the experience just now? One second it takes. (min 1:08:00) 

Just put your hands like this and your shoes are to be taken out, that’s all. Be comfortable, please be seated, just be comfortable. 

Now, just put your hands like this, see, simple. This is what you have to do. The journalist are the witness of this, they should give this nice thing to the people instead of giving them bad news every day. Some good news also must be given. 

Just open your hands like that, that’s all, that’s all. You start feeling a cool breeze in the hands, very subtle, and you feel relaxed. You just watch me without thinking. Just watch me without thinking, you can do it. Keep your eyes open, just watch me without thinking. All the journalists have one problem in common – liver, because they think too much. 

Now you put your left hand like this, right hand towards me. This is balancing, just to balance you because you use too much of right side – creativity. 

Are you alright, madam? Alright? Good? 

Now both the hands, let’s see. Good, started now. Now you can feel it on top of your head here, on the fontanel bone area here. You just bend your head and see. See? Alright? Cool. But maybe some people might feel hot, doesn’t matter, the heat is coming out from the body.

Alright. Now turn round, put your right hand and now see with the left hand. Only the journalists in Italy can feel that. Some in England, one or two. They have a special blessing, I think.

Mmm. Alright. Good. 

Are you feeling, madam? 

Are you alright, sir? Behind you? No, not yet? Just see somebody. Please put here, you should feel it. Started, it started now. Put your hand on top of the head like that, it will start. Now put your hand like that, little higher. How long have you been using the spectacles? …. That’s why. You are alright, just a little bit obstructed. 

Alright? Good. This lady has felt it? You can see yourself now. This gentleman you take him, he’ll show you. You wanted to know about decoding, call him. Just let him come and see. You can check …. Ah, now, better. 

[Shri Mataji speaking to a Sahaja Yogi: You take him back and show him how to raise the Kundalini, he wanted to know.] 

Good, more now. When I raise my hand you feel it more, isn’t it? See now. I blow on my hand you can feel it. Don’t think, don’t think. No, you don’t think, that’s why. You don’t think now. If you think you go down. Don’t think, just watch me, don’t think. Better now? Are you feeling little bit? Don’t doubt. What is there to doubt? Don’t doubt yourself.

Interviewer: How much does the mind influence this process?

Shri Mataji: Yes, the mind sometimes goes like… When you are complicated, you are an extremist, you go to extreme limits then the center separates. But if you are a person with a temperament which is not neither extremist nor a complicated one it’s the easiest.

Interviewer: So if you slow down the thinking you perceive more ?

Shri Mataji: Of course. Of course. Of course. And that is not to be done, it just happens. You don’t have to do it, it just happens. 

You start thinking, don’t, you have to forgive. Forgive, forgive, forgive, you have to forgive. Forgive everyone, just forgive. That’s the best way to get rid of your thoughts. Just forgive everyone in one lot. Good. Now alright? Aaah, that’s it, that’s it. Now that you got it it’s easy. She has, she has. She too has got it already. Right?

Shri Mataji speaks in [HINDI or MARATHI].

[Shri Mataji starts working on persons one by one while exchanging comments about other people being worked on by Sahaja Yogis.]

She’s good. What about her? No, no, just keep it up, now I’ll fix it up. Alright? Come here. I’ll fix it up. Can you sit on the ground for one minute? Just come forward, I’ll fix up your attention. Alright? It’s all here, gone here. Put your hands towards me, please, watch me. You keep alright health-wise? Settling down, attention is settling down now. See, the blockage is here. Better. Hmm, now. Forgive, forgive everyone, just forgive. Forgive everyone, forgive. Now better? Thinks too much. Better now? I am just balancing you. Good. [Lady complains about heat on left hand.] Has she been to any clairvoyant or someone? Did you ever interview anyone like that, any fake guru or someone? Who? That’s how you got it, that’s how you got the problem. Now it’s better. You see, when you go to these people they put something into your psyche, you get caught up and they disturbed you quite a lot. It’s better now, much better, cooler now. Aah, now better. May God bless you. But you have to work it out because when you go to these fake gurus you should know how to protect yourself. You must know how to protect, it’s very important. You meet all kinds of horrible people and you don’t know how to protect yourself.

Hmm, Void. You also have been to some guru or someone? Did you interview someone, some clairvoyant? None of these charismatic people? Sure? The stomach…. But you didn’t meet anyone like that recently? Or somebody died in your family? It’s not your father but something like that. Now better, isn’t it? She has that problem on the stomach. Better turn round, I’ll just see the back. You see, even if you go to some places there might be something like that. This is the point? Hold your breath, leave it now. Again hold it, now leave it. Again hold it, now leave it. Alright. Better? How are you, feeling relaxed now? 

Yes, what’s the problem? Didn’t feel the cool breeze? Because he works a lot. What about his mother? Ha, now better. Better, your heart, you are feeling better? If he can take out his coat I’ll give vibrations on the heart. And turn around. Keep your feet straight and calm down, be comfortable. Ha, better. 

(min 1:27:14)

You can see the bridging of the Kundalini, you can come and see. Come along, come along, have a look, fast. Just see, see it. The light is not…, light should be… Come from this side, it’s better. You see, here you can see. You see? You want to see? Let him see it. See how it is bridging there. Alright, just see it. It will disappear after some time so see it fast. You see? Yes, there. It is in here, still going in, still going in. You want to see, come and have a look, be convinced about it. Just bend a little bit more. Can you bend? Ask him to bend, let him bend then they can see it. Just see here. Come, come. Can you see it clearly? Now, I’ll raise it now. Ha, I’ll raise it. See there, little bit it’s still there, still there. 

You people are not seeing? You haven’t seen it? Oh, I didn’t know. It’s very common. It’s still there bridging. It is still bridging quite a lot, you see? And now going that side to his liver. You’ve never seen it? Surprising.  

There is an obstruction here. 

I didn’t know you Sahaja yogis have not seen it before, it’s very common. It’s less now, still there a little bit. It’s going up. Here, the problem’s here. Doesn’t feel any pain? 

The son? [The person informs he had a liver surgery.] What was the liver problem? Cholecystitis, called as gall bladder. Now better. You see it is indicative of what problem [UNCLEAR] had that the Kundalini won’t rise – she is working there on the sides of his liver. It won’t go; little bit did come up but most of it is moving here, curing him. What’s it? [The person suggest that maybe the problem is due to an x-ray made that morning.] No, no, no, I’ll put my foot down there. No, no, nothing of the kind but you see the problem is now going to be cured completely.

[Shri Mataji speaks aside]

[Shri Mataji speaks HINDI or MARATHI]. 

Ha, better. Would be alright. 

Ha, he’s better. You are better now? How is your attention? Still wobbling? 

Americans are surprised that I was taking coca-cola. I said, “I have to be normal like you.” You see, if I fuss about things how will I travel? I’ve have to go to villages, I’ve have to go everywhere, I cannot fuss.

[UNCLEAR] we had a doctor here from Riyadh, he is a psychiatrist and a doctor. He is in Riyadh, in Saudi Arabia. See, to me a doctor also has to put the hands to find out what’s wrong. 

[Shri Mataji speaks HINDI or MARATHI]

(min 1:35:16)

You must have been given anaesthesia during your operation. I’m sorry I had to concede it myself but they are much more powerful than myself. They gave him anaesthesia for the operation? Must have. With due respect to doctors, doctors can be quite [UNCLEAR]. I did medicine myself so I know what is – they haven’t got the complete knowledge. 

[a Sahaja Yogi shares a statistics number about patients in the world: 60% of them are hospitalized due to errors of other doctors.]

Bad situation.

Feeling better now? You are his wife? Is he married? His wife is alright health-wise? Alright. 

[Shri Mataji speaks aside]

You got it. What about you? You got vibrations? That’s good. She is your sister, eh? She is a great seeker too, all of them are great seekers. You one better than the other. Look at them, looking like flowers now. Look at the faces. 

Has he felt some cool? Better? Ha, now. Please don’t feel guilty. Now better, ha. Done now, see, better. Now you’ve become a yogi, you see yourself [feel the top of the head]. You all have become yogis. 

You are alright there? You are feeling in your arms little heaviness? Smoking have you been? Alright. So take out the chain for a while. Ha, now, alright, done, see now. Alright? 

What is now? She is better, she is better now, much better, ahaa. I can see your expression changing, isn’t it? 

Just tie him up, tie him up, that’s all. Now there is no pulsation. You can have a look, there is no pulsation now, gone, pulsation gone. Gone. Alright now, done.

Alright, alright, take it easy. I’m just going to sit here. Turn around, turn around. 

Such people, this is a great country.

[Shri Mataji speaks aside]

She is good, isn’t she? Alright, she’s got it. Good, you are alright. 

Move forward, little bit, still little more, little further. Yes, that’s better.

[Shri Mataji speaks in HINDI OR MARATI]  

[a Sahaja Yogi: Swadishthan and Agnya.] That has to be, she is a journalist. Alright, let’s see. Ha. Alright? I’m sorry I have to put down the Heart. 

Good. He’s changed, his eyes …. His face is… 

Ha, now better. 

Feel better now, madam? What is this? Hot going out, lot of it was there. Hmm, better. Ha, done. Now, tie her up, tie up.

You all can do it. You all can do it. Like this and tie it up now, on top of your head. Tie it up, three …. Now again and tie up over your head. Once more. Now three times: one, two and three. Now see her vibrations, you all can feel it, the cool breeze. Cool air is coming more. You feeling it? Now she is feeling relaxed? Cool is coming? Hold your breath, leave it now. Again hold your breath, leave it. Now hold your breath again, now leave it. Better but she is very insecure. Now you’ve got a Mother, you should not be insecure anymore. Alright. Her Heart, Central Heart she was catching, it’s the mother’s place. 

Now hold your breath, give up, now give up. Hold your breath, now give up. Now hold your breath, now give up. She is alright. Got it.

Come along. Please face me, just come forward. You’ve got sinus problem? When you come to our center they’ll give you something which is called ghee which you have to heat and put it in the nose in the night so this sinus to be alright, little dried up, that’s all. That also [horror video]. That too [UNCLEAR], too much seeking. You are a healer. How do you heal? By hands and you don’t know? You are a realized soul, you were born realized soul. But you must know what it is, how to do it, how to protect. You see, you are a realized soul. Because you catch from the patients. So you must learn. Now give up healing. What [UNCLEAR] you want to do? Don’t heal because you catch, you see. And heart, catching on the heart. You must know how to protect first of all. First you learn how to protect. Alright? Very much catching on the heart, all these chakras are caught up here. But you are realized soul. But a realized soul must know what to do, isn’t it? You felt the cool breeze as soon as you came in, is it? You are, you are a realized soul. But even if you are a realized soul you must know how to do it, you must know the chakras, you must know what you catch. Alright? That’s why otherwise …. That’s why she got these wrinkles, all that; that’s why she’s got all lines, everything. You have to look very young. What’s your age? You are ten years younger to me. No wrinkles needed. Now you learn from them. They’ll tell you how to protect yourself, what are the chakras, what is what, what is cancer, what is any disease, how to make it out, everything, you’ll learn all that. Alright? All of them are here, they are experts. Alright? May God bless you. You’ll become an expert also. 

Now, who? Yes, come. Sit down please. Can you take off your chain, one minute. There’s a pain here, spondylitis. Ha, better. On the Void. He’s been to some guru also? That’s how he has got it. We’ve got someone from TM, should tell you terrible things about it; he doesn’t want to talk. We need not tell your name but you can tell you something about it. Epilepsy, everything, that’s how TM it is. Ha, now. 

But TM one has to work, horrible. Working…. They just take money from you, don’t work on you, don’t do anything, make you mad. The head of their Flying Academy, the head of that was [UNCLEAR], came to us, his wife – both epileptic. 

It’s better now, working. 

… then I cannot heal you [Shri Mataji referring to Kundalini being raised by TM]. What is it? No, no, it’s devil’s job, they don’t do anything good. Because of TM it’s burning on my knee.

Everybody’s vibrations will be spoiled. You’ll have to give her a special treatment otherwise everybody’s vibrations will be spoiled.

See, everybody is feeling the heat and miserable, terrible. See, that’s it, that’s fear. Alright. Madam, you come and see them, they will tell you how to get alright. Right? It’s very important, you must get well. 

You are all feeling the heat, terrible eh?

You must tell the address to her, everything, really she wants it. Alright, madam, you come along. You talk to that gentleman, he was one of the heads of TM here. 

[Shri Mataji speaking to a Sahaja Yogi: Can you see her? You go and talk to him. But give bandhan to all of you and then do it.]

Alright. …. like this, from these horrible things like TM, just protect it, absolute protection, like this, seven times. 

Ask him to put both the hands on the mother earth, to be comfortable. He’s alright. You didn’t go to anyone like that, did you? 

[Shri Mataji speaking to Sahaja Yogis: Are they coming to us? Are they coming in the ashram for giving the …? That’s better for us.]

Left Vishuddhi. Turn back, this side. You can all feel the right side. Ha, now, many thoughts. Ha, now. Don’t feel guilty, don’t feel guilty. 

Colitis. That’s how, left Swadishthana [Shri Mataji refers to a person attending an exoteric group]. They make you nervous, madam, they make you, it was a rapport. They are very bad [referring to mediums], clairvoyance also. They are all very bad, that’s very bad, it’s the subconscious there, not the unconscious. 

Ha, better. Tie it up. Alright? 

You see, these are all perfectionists. There will not spare till they have completely cured you, you see.

Ha, now. You say, “I am sakshat Nirmala.” Here, bandhan, again, three times. Aaaha, tremendous vibrations now. What’s his name? Guido, how are you feeling now? Right Void, everybody says the same, just see. The liver, you see. 

They’ll come there? You all have to come there and get vibrated sugar and everything for this liver. Good, great idea [about the person being treated, he would like to try live in the ashram] So what? We have children in the ashram. You come and see it, it’s beautiful. You are alright now. May God bless you! Look at his eyes now.

[Shri Mataji speaks aside] 

Ha, come along, come along, sit down. He has Vishuddhi, that’s all. He smokes or not? Smokes, I can feel it, Vishuddhi. Even in the stomach it’s smoke I think. 

In Italy people smoke too much and I don’t know why. But do you produce it, produce tobacco? 

I have to put my foot here…. Ha. Ha. 

[UNCLEAR] did a good job. Yes, because of thoughtless awareness. You start enjoying yourself. 

Ask him to say, “Mother, come in my head”, seven times. Left Nabhi. Is he married? Void. He’s being doing some …? [Person refers he’s been to India ] India is full of these people only [meditating on the street]. But we Indians never go near them, only…. 

[Person shares that he would like to believe in Sahaja Yoga.] No, no, don’t believe. You should not. Believe in yourself. He has to believe in himself because I’m trying to give him Self-realization. We are working hard, you do nothing. So why we’re just we wasting time and not believing in you? He should believe in himself. We are working hard. We believe in him more that he believes in himself. You don’t believe in us at all, we believe in yourself that you will get it, believe that you will get it. Need not believe in the sun, there is no need to believe in the sun – just come in the sun, that’s all.

He got it. Now what about him? Is he alright? Better now. Just leave your hands on the ground. I believe that you will get it. Alright. Relax, relax, relax, relax, relax. [Shri Mataji strikes with both hands the back of the person.] See the smoke coming out. Can you smell it? Just smell it. All smoke here, here, here. Can you smell it? 

[Shri Mataji to a Sahaja Yogi: You open the window so the smoke would go.]

Tell him I have to clear this chakra with the …. Better? Better? Don’t feel guilty, please. Alright? Don’t feel guilty, you have to believe in yourself. Have faith in yourself, forgive yourself. Just put your head proper, just put it …. Better now. He is now very conscious. Left Vishuddhi, means he’s still feel very guilty about your smoking. Not to feel guilty, it’s a double thing, for smoking don’t feel guilty. Ha, now better. This side is caught. Now better, right opened out better, left is not. Because you see, he’s been to all these horrible people. Right is cool, left is not. Left is that he went to these horrible people in India, the left is caught up. Right is well. Better now, better. Alright? Don’t feel guilty for anything. Forget what we said, you don’t have to feel guilty. The blockage is here. No, you do not [try to quit smoking], you will automatically stop [smoking]. 

(min. 2:24:47)

Vishuddhi, I’ll say mantras, “Om, twameva Vishnumaya sakshat, Vishnumaya sakshat, Vishnumaya sakshat…. ” [Shri Mataji repeats it 16 times in the left year of the person]. Alright, he is better. Blockage is here. Om twameva sakshat, Shri Krisha sakshat, Shri Krishna sakshat, Shri Krishna sakshat … [Shri Mataji repeats it 16 times in right ear of the person]. Om sakshat, Virata sakshat, Virata sakshat, Virata sakshat …. [Shri Mataji repeats it 12 times at the back of the head of the person]. Om sakshat, Nirmalam sakshat, Nirmalam sakshat, Nirmalam sakshat [Shri Mataji repeats it 7 times]. He is alright. Now silent. Absolutely silent? May God bless you. 

Aaah, good, please be seated now. Now see in your hands are you feeling it, the cool breeze. Just be seated there. No heat. Little bit higher. Keep your eyes open. Feel it? Not yet? Good, I think. Good now, started. Started, started now. Let’s feel it, it is subtle, it is very subtle.

Alright madam, are you alright? You felt the cool breeze? She has a problem, left-sided. What’s the problem? Left Swadishthan. Now put your hands towards me. What happens to you as a medium. [The lady was told he can be a medium.] Who told you that? Don’t become a medium, it’s not a good thing. You have to be medium of what? Are you feeling cool breeze in the hands? You keep alright health-wise? [The lady answered she was in coma for 15 minutes.] She is not well at all. Tell her to come and see me, I’ll tell her what she has, she is not well at all. And be careful, very careful, there is danger. When you come I’ll give you something and it will take away the problem. ….. Alright, come and see us, I’ll manage. May God bless you. What’s your name, madam? Livia, you come and see us, definitely. Alright?  

Come forward, come. Turn around. Married? 

[Shri Mataji asks yogis to open the window.] That’s from the medium, the one who go out, the lady who went – Livia, she is very bad. She’s got a possession on her, somebody has possessed her and she’s become epileptic. She doesn’t know it. She told me she goes into 5 – 15 minutes [coma], see the escape.  

[Shri Mataji speaks in HINDI] 

What is it? They are all journalists or what? What is this place? 

A Sahaja Yogi: It is an office and they want to make an alternative center and make doctors aware of the Spirit.

Really? That’s good. 

A Sahaja Yogi: And Ayrveda.

Ayrveda is very good but here there is no way of having the herbs. You can only grow them in India, this problem is. And they haven’t yet reduced them to the Spirit, very few of them have. And very primitive methods they use. I must say, like they use oil to rub the body and through that they put the medicine inside, through rubbing. It’s very odd method they have but that’s what they have. Very primitive, that’s the problem. But Sahaja Yoga will be good idea, alternative methods. But don’t have bhoots and mediums, that’s one thing to avoid. 

Is he better, this gentleman? Is his wife alright? You love your wife? He is a nervous man, very nervous person. Now better. Ha, better now, much better. Turn around. Are you feeling better now? Close your eyes. Are you feeling the cool breeze in the hands? Don’t feel guilty. You feel guilty unnecessarily and you become nervous. Now better. Is he better? Is he feeling it? Don’t feel guilty and you’ll go on feeling guilty. Just don’t feel guilty. No fear of any kind. You enter into the Kingdom of God? What is there to be afraid of? Better now? Done, good. You are alright now, better. He’s relaxed, he’s relaxed. He is laughing now.

Now we should go because it’s quite late. It’s two thirty. 

These are Sahaja Yoginis or what? She’s seen me? She’s come from where? Rome. So she came for Sahasrara day. Good, we are going to meet. 

Let’s go. Alright. Thank you very much, thank you.