You all are Shri Kalki

Euston, London (England)

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Workshop in Euston, London, Day 6, “You all are Shri Kalki”, November first, 1977

[Four tape recordings; a break in the audio might exist between two sequential tapes].

[Tape 1]

Shri Mataji: … And out of it right now. See, but we take it for granted because it’s God obliged [unsure], it’s all right, we don’t know how God has made it and how marvellous it is. In the same way, if this is a living process and it’s the most important thing, it has to be the easiest. It has to be all built-in there. Like a switch, you have to just put on the light. But of course, there is a big mechanism behind it. That is what it is. And how they have built it, that I have told you yesterday. How they themselves chose to come down and built it up.

Sahaja Yogi: Seems to be cool on the right but still catching on the Left Heart [unclear].

Shri Mataji: Now see, he is telling you, you can also tell the same thing. You have got that paper of My hand? You see, it is written on that, where do you feel, what you feel and all that. Please keep it carefully. Now, all right?

Sahaja Yogi: Now I am feeling better on the right.

Shri Mataji: Left Nabhi is upset you see. Very upset, ambitious. Put your attention to God, all right? Put your attention to your heart where He resides.
Hm. Sit.
Sahaja Yogi: Swadisthan.
Shri Mataji: Right?
Sahaja Yogi: [Unclear]
It’s better now.

[Shri Mataji is clearing out catches].

Shri Mataji: What is your name?
Sahaja Yogi: My name is Dani, short for Vincent.
Shri Mataji: Vinny?
Sahaja Yogi: Dany.
Shri Mataji: Vincent?
Sahaja Yogi: Vincent. Yes.

Shri Mataji: All right, how is she?
Sahaja Yogi: All right better.
Shri Mataji: Now you are better. I say, “How you feel?” and you turn around. Now see, you should not think of all these things, wasting your energy.
Sahaja Yogini: Sorry.
Shri Mataji: It is all right. Wasting your energy on nonsensical things all right? So, what you have to think that it is such a great fortune, all right, to be able to get Realisation. Isn’t it? How many people have got Realisation?
Sahaja Yogini: I don’t know.
Very few. In this country, very few. And it is such a great source of joy and happiness.
To establish it, you have to completely depend on God. Then you see, you give Him some areas, you see, for his realm to work out. As I say this, it’s being better. You see, you just allow Him to work it out. And how He solves the problems, you have seen He solved some of your problems already. It is better to get rid of people who are horrid.

Sahaja Yogini: I’m having the same problem.
Shri Mataji: Hm?
Sahaja Yogini: It’s similar to my problem.
Shri Mataji: Is it?
Sahaja Yogini: Yes.

Shri Mataji: On the left side. Just leave it alone. Leave it.
Better now. Okay?
Your pillow must be hard, don’t sleep on a hard pillow. Be very particular as to where you sleep. This is a very important chakra as I said, do not [inaudible].
Now see.
He is looking so much better already. May God bless you.
You are looking so much better, I am saying.
Sahaja Yogi: It is this place, you know.
Shri Mataji: You are so very sweet! How you accepted Sahaja Yoga! I do not know.
Sahaja Yogi: Mother, it’s [laughter].
Shri Mataji: May God bless you.

Shri Mataji: Now how simple you are. If you are simple, it is the easiest way.
Sahaja Yogi: If you are simple. It tickles my heart, a place like this. No, there. This is very, very- this is why the first question I asked you was about the fear of the mind.

Shri Mataji: It’s a horrid place you go to. Terrible places. And when you will get Realised you will feel even worse. Because you see, with this new condition that you are into, you will feel terrible, because you will be feeling it all coming from all sides attacking you.
Sahaja Yogi: I feel relaxed Mother.
Shri Mataji: No, you feel relaxed but when you go to that horrid place, where you have been before. Where you have been, I am saying. You will feel, sort of again being attacked more if you go near them, those people. Where you have been I am saying.

He is a boy who went to TM. And he is suffering already from terrible- what do you call that?
Sahaja Yogi: What is it?
Shri Mataji: Skin problem. [Inaudible] It’s terrible what he has. Instead of improving it, you see, they gave him on a mantra. And that mantra that he would die with that mantra. You see, it’s like that, they are very cruel. Because they thought, it is better for such people to die so they get out of the organisation. Then they use their spirits later on. Oh, they are terrible these TM people. They want to kill people whom they can use the spirit later on. They are introducing nothing but spirits in you. Horrible people they are.

Sahaja Yogini: I was going to ask you that. What happens just when our physical body dies? What do you say?
Shri Mataji: Your physical body, when you die, you don’t die fully, only a part of it would die, you see, comes out like a – what you call – that portion is called as the earth element, you see, whatever is made of the earth element comes out. And the water element gradually disappears, evaporates you see, becomes smaller and smaller [inaudible].
But if you are a sort of a person who is very much still desirous and not a satisfied person at all, and you have some hatreds left in you and sort of a vengeance left in you – such people, you see, don’t want to die, really, in the real sense, because they think that, “We should be somewhere in the atmosphere”. So, they hang around. They do that.
Sahaja Yogini: As spirits.
Shri Mataji: As spirits.
Sahaja Yogini: And make a nuisance of themselves.
Shri Mataji: Yes, they are very busybodies.
Sahaja Yogini: Right.

Shri Mataji: They can be quite troublesome, they can be very harmful, they can be cruel. Some of them are monsters also. Some of them are evil geniuses. And they are all captured by these horrid people. And they use them. And they introduce these into you. And they give them names you see. They can even give the name of Jesus, they can give a name of Rama, they give this, that and all that. And they can give them this work.

There is no question of transformation. No question of transformation. The only thing what they give you is a way by which there is another spirit that comes in. And then you feel a little better because the spirit is looking after you; you are like a drunken person, you see. You are like a drunken person. Your awareness is absolutely zero at that time. But another one is working through you. Your instrument is used.

May God Bless You.

Shri Mataji: Sharda, what time you rang up? Because I telephoned – your phone was ringing, ringing nobody was receiving.
Sharda: Yes, somebody downstairs, they’re all very busy. It is actually outside my, Ravi’s flat.
Shri Mataji: Ah. I was wondering how to tell you.
Are you all right now?
Sharda: Much better.

Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji? Is there a possibility of any our chakras being possessed, by any of these spirits?
Shri Mataji: What is it?
Sahaja Yogi: The chakras, can they be possessed?
Shri Mataji: Chakras do not. Chakras do not. But you see, what happens that the chakra is a thing made out of two sorts of things, you see: the left-hand side and the right-hand side. So, what happens, in the chakras there is deity placed inside that thing. Now it is a sort of a three-trap door, you can call it, a three-trap door. By two traps coming together, it makes a chakra, like that. And inside this is awakened, a deity sitting down there, which is working out, regulating everything. But in the beginning when you are not Realised, then the Deities are doing their job, all right? They are balancing you, they’re looking after you; everything they are doing through the parasympathetic activity, which is there all the time acting in you. But you are not aware of them at all. You are not aware of your chakras, neither you can control. Because parasympathetic you cannot control. Now, what is a parasympathetic? I will tell you.

Supposing you want to increase the beat of your heart, you start running, the beat of the heart increases. But it reduces by itself. You cannot do anything about it. So, the one that reduces it, that is known as the ‘auto’ we can call it or whatever they may call it. That is the one that is done through the parasympathetic activity. It gives you the balance, it also gives you the harmony it gives you the peace and the sleep, and all those things come thought the parasympathetic. Now this parasympathetic is the central thing that I showed yesterday, the Mahalaxmi power. That is the one who is expressed outside in the gross as parasympathetic.

You see, yesterday, the whole lecture turned out to be so much of incarnations that I could not talk on this medical terminology. But maybe I might be able to do it next time when I say or otherwise. Because people get bored with these scientific words also.

Now these Deities which are settled down on these chakras, you see, they sleep off. If there is too much activity on both the sides, and a man in his own freedom refuses to listen to them, he goes to the extremes of one thing, they just give up. They are not bothered. At a- till one point they go on working, suggesting. Also, they make you, you know, supposing you are overdoing something. Then you feel heated up, you feel exhausted – that is the indication all coming from them. But still, you don’t listen. You go on doing bad things. You go on doing horrible things then they sleep off. So, once they sleep off, then what happens that your mind, your mind itself is a creation of these elements, you see. The mind is the creation of the elements. So, we have in the mind, ego and the superego, both the things. So, in the ego and superego, an entity can enter into your ego and superego – and through that, they act on your sympathetic nervous system.

For example, if somebody enters into the ego. This fellow TM mostly puts them on the ego side. So, you see what happens: he takes up your ego, he starts working. And you feel very dynamic for a while. And you start doing a lot of work and you feel relaxed for a while because somebody else has taken your responsibility, you see. You are not doing anything. But when you are exhausted, after three-four years, you discover that you are nowhere. And you are left high and dry and that fellow disappears. And he makes you very weak. Out of proportion you work, or whatever you do is out of proportion. So, this is what happens with this TM. But he gets all the money for your work. That is what it is.

So, the chakras are in a way not caught up. In the chakras, the Deities are sleeping. So, the area they get it. So, then we have to decide our chakras like this: when the Deities sleep then what happens? The chakras become like this in the sense the areas are formed. Now, these empty areas can be occupied by some other entities. Or could be even in this stage, they can be occupied, in this stage. When they are fully like this and opened out, that is the best. That stage is the best. But normally it is never so. Normally it is always – at least a minimum for Sahaja Yogis also – they have some space left like that. You see, to be absolutely Sahaja, then this is it that you leave everything to God, it will become like this. That is very difficult, very difficult.

Sahaja Yogi: The ego fights.
Shri Mataji: Ego, yes. Ego is a problem.
Sahaja Yogini: Lack of faith also.
Shri Mataji: That is also true.
But with experience, you must have faith, you see. You try to do it, increase the area by putting more onto it, “All right, let it Mataji, let Mataji do it”. You say like that. Now it works out everything. Now, these people are doing it now. They are understanding the value of that.

Sahaja Yogini: Yes, I found it rather strange, yesterday. When You were trying to raise or raising people’s Kundalini, the time I got it most strongly, I mean most strongly, You hadn’t even said a word. It was when You came in and this lady started to sing, my heart felt as if it was going to burst, and my body was going berserk. I was quite frightened.
Shri Mataji: That is very true. I knew that. Because she sang this song, you see. Even now it will happen.
Sahaja Yogini: Yes.
Shri Mataji: Because what she sang is in my praise, you see, that is the Mahalakshmi praise. Because I am the power behind all these things, so she sang Mahalaxmi praise. And now by that, my chakras, you see, these things started – they got so excited about it and they started flowing. And I told her also, “How am I to speak now?”. Because my whole body was shaking with her. If you see, when they sing these things to Me, especially when they do my puja, it is so many vibrations. That is why the puja is to be done. But we don’t allow, you see, unless and until you are at a particular stage.
Sahaja Yogini: Well, I thought I had to leave the room. Because I was about to burst. Yes, the longer you sang, the more it got like that.
Singer: It’s is a long piece. I cut it short.
Shri Mataji: Even in India, even if they say a hundred and eight names of the Goddess, they say. And I say, “Now, finished now, you receive it at least”. Because you are not yet that much sort of bigger hearts. You don’t have that bigger heart to receive all that, you see. And I think that you are not receiving all that and then I feel a little uncomfortable, here. That I am giving too much and while you are not receiving. So, then I said, “Stop it. Now it is too much”.

Sahaja Yogini: Then I was just going to ask you because really, I was really a kind of terrifically beating very hard and jumping about. But when I let it go and stopped feeling frightened, it stopped. And then I just got so high it was incredible. I could not believe it.
Singer: You must understand one thing if – when I am in front of Mataji and sing, first of all, I get so choked, I can’t open my mouth. I, -it is an effort for me to sing.
Sahaja Yogini: It was beautiful I thought.
Shri Mataji: It is, you know, it is the happening. It is the experience. It is not just giving you a lecture, “Oh, it is very beautiful”. No, no, you should feel it.
Singer: It is to become as You were saying in India.
Shri Mataji: To become. Becoming is the point, becoming is the point. But if you are true seekers, you all will find it. But there are some very superficial ones. You know yesterday one boy came drunk absolutely. And he was talking so foolishly. Actually, I do not know how to make out a drunk man. I really must know. Because I did not know what it is – they all told Me, “He is drunk, Mataji, he is drunk”. I said “Really, is he drunk? Then take him away”. He was arguing and arguing with Me.
Sahaja Yogini: Who was the drunken one?
Sahaja Yogi: He was a psychologist.
Shri Mataji: No, no he is not a psychologist.
Sahaja Yogi: No?
Shri Mataji: No, he said, “I am also like a psychologist”. He was drunk absolutely. Imagine coming to a meditation! He said, “I came to see what things you do here”. I said, “Are you Inspector General?”

You see, this is what we are deceiving ourselves, you see. Supposing I sit here. Supposing I say, “There is a diamond lying here”. You must come and see at least, what it is like, isn’t it? It is really too much for people. That is [inaudible].
What Bogdan says that, “It’s beyond me. Now, I just can’t think about it. It is too much”. But it is so. I mean it has to be done. It has been promised to you in all the books. That this will be done. You will be taken into the Kingdom of God. Everything has been promised. Now you mean to say that God is a promise-breaker? Either the Bible or the Koran, all of them are wrong. Or they are correct, it has to happen. But when it has to happen, they just don’t believe in it.

Sahaja Yogini: I was coming to [unclear] center. I bought a return ticket to the train. And when I got down at [unclear] center, I lost my ticket. And I searched everywhere. I couldn’t find it. I was very frightened, “Now these ticket fellows will catch me. I’m sure I’ll get into a lot of trouble and penalised”. So, I prepared myself I though, “I’ll first go and apologise and tell them honestly, “Look you can search. I have bought one but I cannot find it” I prepared to pay the penalty also, whatever you charge me “. I went and stood there – not a single ticket collector, Mother. [Unclear]. I stood there for five minutes looking very guilty whether to go or to stay there. Or leave there and I said to my [unclear], “Now let me leave, if somebody is behind me, then I will stop”. Nobody came. I was looking behind watching for the longest pause.
Shri Mataji: How things work out, it is so remarkable.
Singer: Really, how to answer this?
Shri Mataji: You see, after all, God is not going to allow this Creation to be destroyed by this tomfoolery people. He is not going to allow this Creation to be destroyed. You must know.

Now I will say one thing: if you go on thinking of nonsensical things, there can be some busybody around, he will enter into your head. All right? And you will start doing something foolish. You just do not allow your mind to drift like that.

You give her a “limbu” [lemon], it will be a better idea, I think. You can give it in her hand for some time. All right, sit now for a while, I’ll see that.
Sahaja Yogini: Thank you.

Sahaja Yogi: Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Yes, Binny?
Sahaja Yogi: I think last night you said that the first thing was to be holy?
Shri Mataji: Was made like that. See, the world was made like that. First the holiness was made. Now think if the Mother has to create something. What She will do is the protective thing, isn’t it? For her children. So, what is the best thing for her children is the holiness. So, She creates, you see, the atmosphere of holiness, to begin with. That is the first thing She created. And what is holiness? It’s the complete faith in the Mother, in the love of God isn’t it? Complete faith. Then you just do not do anything wrong. There is no temptation, nothing. You just live in that eternal peace and joy and happiness. You are not bothered about anything. That is what She created for your sense of security. For everything, She created that.

But later on, humans beings lost it. All right? Because of their freedom, doesn’t matter. Once you become collectively conscious, actually in the subtle form, you get connected with that holiness which was spread out a long time back. Which is in a subtle form. Holiness is the same as love, as Divine love is. It’s the same as the truth. It’s the same as the joy. All these things put together is holiness. That is known as “Brahma tattva”. It’s known as the essence of Brahma, “Brahma tattva”.
And Christ was made of that. Completely embodied, imagine. His body was also made “pranav”. It was not made at the time when He was to be born. It was made thousands and thousands of years much before as Mahavishnu. First, He was made as Ganesha and then Ganesha was made into Mahavishnu, in which Kumara’s body also was made. See, Kumara also was brought in. Actually, it is more Kartikeya than Ganesha is. In the Christ, it is more Kartikeya.
Sahaja Yogini: Kartikeya.
Shri Mataji: More Kartikeya.
Through vibrations [Hindi] omkara.
You know any Kartikeya, Christine?  
Sahaja Yogini: Yes.
Shri Mataji: You know.
See it. Better.


We have got one, in the Finchley if you go, there is a big one. We have put a statue of Kartikeya. We’ll see the vibrations of that. He was specially created to kill a very bad demon. And his power was put into Ganesha, you see. And that is how Christ was created.
And that too Radha created Him, re-created Him. I mean sort of, they used those. First of all, they evolved these people and then they put them together. There are eleven rudras in Christ. Eleven rudras. Eleven powers of destruction He has got. Eleven powers. Which at the end of the world, He will take them. Eleven rudras. It is not a simple thing. Christ does not mean a simple thing the way we are all over the world. [Unsure]

Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji, what is the source of demons?
Shri Mataji: Demons?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes.
Shri Mataji: Demons are human beings only, you see, most of them. At the animal stage also, they are. But more on the human styles, when they go into extremes. You see, when they go into extremes of doing things and when they become egotistical too much, or too much sly also, you see, they become demons.
Sahaja Yogini: Yes.
Shri Mataji: Going into the extremes, they fall out. Going into the extremes they fall out and either they go to the collective subconsciousness they fall out. This side they go to the preconsciousness and to the supra consciousness and they fall out somewhere. They are all demons.
Sahaja Yogi: Are they lost forever Shri Mataji or can they also-
Shri Mataji: You see, the demons are- they go to hell, like a jail it is. They pass through all that and still retain some of their problems and come back, you see.

Sahaja Yogini: Mataji [unclear]. When I asked You the question about when the physical body was dead, died, what happens to your Spirit? Because we are not to end, aren’t we, as You said last night, there is no particular religion to relate to what is true too.
Shri Mataji: Yes.
Sahaja Yogini: Because there is a better world after. So, what does happen Mataji? What do you-
Shri Mataji: I told you.
Sahaja Yogini: Do you reincarnate again?
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, yes.
Sahaja Yogini: Immediately.
Shri Mataji: You mean, after you have gone to a proper place where you rest for a while.
Sahaja Yogini: Yes, yes. And you are aware that you are there.
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes. You are there aware absolutely aware, into the collective subconscious, you are there. And there you stay on. And then you come back from there, you are reborn and reborn and reborn many a times.
Sahaja Yogini: Actually, revived.
Shri Mataji: Yes, of course. You come back and evolve on this Mother Earth only. Not there.
Sahaja Yogini: And eventually when you get pure enough, you can get off the-
Shri Mataji: No.
Sahaja Yogini: That syphon.
Shri Mataji: I would say – you would say that first, you evolve from the animal [stage] to human beings you are getting purer and purer. That means your awareness increases. But when you come to the stage of the human being as you are today – now we have immediately jumped. This is the first time, in your own awareness, you have realised that you have jumped into a new awareness. First time.
Before this, everything was done without your knowledge. From amoeba to the human stage.
Sahaja Yogini: Yes.
Shri Mataji: Now at the human stage only, you realise that you have jumped into a new awareness. Because that is the reason, because God wanted you to know this! That is why He gave you freedom.

Sahaja Yogini: So, what is the next step?
Shri Mataji: Next step is doubtless awareness. In which there are no doubts in your mind, nothing – but you remain in complete joy and you start doing even [unclear].
Sahaja Yogini: Even while we are here on Earth?
Shri Mataji: Oh! Very much.
Sahaja Yogini: In our body?
Shri Mataji: Oh, of course. Of course. And after that, you go into complete Self-realisation. That is, sitting down here you just feel, “I Am”. That is all. You move about in the whole world it seems like a drama going on. You are not bothered. And then you start controlling the elements also at that stage. Then there is God’s realisation into which you can jump into. Let us see how far you people are willing to go. I am with you. We will work it down together.

Sahaja Yogini: You see, Shri Mataji, I hope you don’t mind me asking You.
Shri Mataji: No, not at all, not at all.
Sahaja Yogini: I want to ask You, cause it’s too worrying, all right? The thing is when you get Self-realised, and if what happens, happens like it has been happening to me, rightly. And you obviously recognise everything else outside is kind of not really real – but a kind of waking nightmare. You can still cope with it, don’t you?
Shri Mataji: Yes, you’re right. Yes, because it is a drama you understand. You laugh at it and make fun of it. And you can play with it also. You see, you understand the illusion about it. But then after some time, you can create illusion also.

Sahaja Yogini: When you become- you’re not attached to it, it is easier to stay detached anyway.
Shri Mataji: Of course.
Sahaja Yogi: Right.
Shri Mataji: But only that, but you work out many things sitting down. What I am saying was, that you become connected with them in a subtle form. And you start acting on them.

Sahaja Yogi: It’s like you play your flute lighter than theirs.
Shri Mataji: Of course, of course.
Sahaja Yogi: So, they resonate to you.
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, that’s how is it. You become an absolute flute then, you try and take tune up.
Sahaja Yogini: Yes, because there are some very overpowering people. And I am thinking of the one I live with.
[Shri Mataji is laughing]
Sahaja Yogini: Who, when he is present, knows and negates all my feeling of joy without saying anything, it’s like he closes you up. It can be a very strong personality.
Shri Mataji: They are, they are, some of them are all the time crying people also. You see, they all can be corrected. It’s due to the imbalance in them. Too much drawn towards the subconsciousness, too emotional.
Sahaja Yogini: That is emotionally depressing.
Shri Mataji: They think of the dead and the death and all that is gone by. And that’s horrible that is going to happen to them, that time. You can change all of them.
Sahaja Yogini: I hope so.
Shri Mataji: Even with my photograph. If you ask them to take a treatment of photograph as they do, they will be changing very fast. We had some people last time who come to see us. They are absolutely changed. It is quite easy.

Can you put on the light? Is there any shawl around there? Nothing?
Shri Mataji: All right, a sweater.

Shri Mataji: Vishudhi, somebody is catching.
Are you better now?

Now see, this is, see now, this is such a child’s play. You know what is this? This is a lemon, you know that all right. This is- has a coefficient as the same – or you can say, this has a very good meson [subatomic particle] on which Shri Ganesha can act, you see. His vibrations can be active. So, what we do through these– these can be ordered through vibrations when I put my vibrations on this, to suck in the spirits that are in other people.
So, her problems are sucked into this.
Sahaja Yogini: Yes.
Shri Mataji: Then you take this and put it in the water [after use]. They can be dissolved. You can cut them off and they can be liberated. All things can be done with this. Instead of putting them in the pigs as Christ did it, I am putting them in a vegetarian manner.
[Shri Mataji is laughing]

[Shri Mataji and a Sahaja Yogini have a conversation mostly in Hindi].
Shri Mataji: has three children poor thing. Left her.
Sahaja Yogini: My son – there has been a big problem.
Shri Mataji: What happened?
Sahaja Yogini: He (her husband) had come here with a lot of money. Spent it all on women. Then he called the son, “I need four hundred pounds”. [UNCLEAR]. Said in front of everyone, “See my son is asking for money. What is a son for? Why doesn’t Ravi come himself?”

Shri Mataji: All right, what happened was good.
Sahaja Yogini: He is sitting at home very depressed.
Shri Mataji: Why to sit depressed?
Sahaja Yogini: In front of everyone, it was said.
Shri Mataji: Tell them, “He did not give us a penny”.
Sahaja Yogini: He is not going to say that.
Shri Mataji: All right then let us stay in peace.
Sahaja Yogini: He said, “Let it be”. He phoned today.
Shri Mataji: Call him here. I will talk to him.
Let him come anytime. What happened was good. It is good now.
Sahaja Yogini: Yes, my goodness, what a behaviour.
Shri Mataji: What a relief. Now you say Sharda, it is Sahaja. Otherwise, your son was not going to escape from his clutches.
Sahaja Yogini: Absolutely. Is just like a lunatic. And yesterday when Your talk was going on, Mother, in the hall. I had said the day before yesterday, “We had met Mother in [UNCLEAR]”. To the mad father. When he was told he said, “I am not going to come anywhere”. And he eats like a rakshasa. Every half hour.
Shri Mataji: The rakshasas have come into him.
Sahaja Yogini: Every half an hour he is hungry. Something has to be given to him. So, I told Ravi, “There is some bhut inside that”.
Shri Mataji: Better not, call Ravi here. Let us see.
Sahaja Yogini: He was going to come today. He was tired. “Tell Mother, when can we speak?”.
Shri Mataji: Take a ‘limbu’ today. Tell them.

[Shri Mataji speaks back in English].

Now this, her case I will tell you. She is an Indian lady. She was married at the age of seventeen. And our Indian men are very, very oppressive type. Sometimes can be. But she did not realise he was such a monster as he was, you see. And he took to this kind of same thing as these people are doing you see, – giving mantras and this and that. He became a guru. And he was a very big crook you see, very big crook. And he took a sanyasa and made all kinds of dresses and all that. And he had a very big business. He was a very big, rich man, businessman and all that. And in that group, he used to call lots of young girls and young boys and all kinds of things he was doing. Big, big political leaders, all these people used to come. And she was the wife. She used to see all that, you see. And he would come home and beat her. She was staying upstairs and her children – she had a very intelligent boy, her son. And he also, because of all these things, the son also developed a kind of disease. What is it called?

Sahaja Yogini: [UNCLEAR].
Shri Mataji: And, you see, it was very much-
Sahaja Yogini: Not ordinary beating but beating with brandish also. With iron which was hot. Because they would not do homework. And he would sort of kept, I’m just telling for you to know all – He kept a teacup like that in the wrong place, that was enough. Or he went in the bathroom, had a bath and forgot to put the soap back in the tray, it was enough to be brandished.
Another method of his torture was you know, the belt – take out and beat. And beating was never done quietly. It was always done in front of the servants, visitors, guests. And I used to sort of go in between and tell him, “You can beat me, but not my, not the children”. I tried to save as much as possible by taking it on me. But it hasn’t. But the sum total is, he was totally under, what you call – occultism. A lot of gurus and spoilt him. He wears black clothes and is very, very unsettled in mind. At night he used to scream at the top of his voice sometimes. And use women as his instruments. I don’t know how women become his instruments. I don’t know. I don’t know whether you know. David Lean a famous film producer had an Indian wife. She lives in Grosvenor House now. She is his instrument. Such a rich woman. David Lean had settled twenty-five million pounds on her.
Shri Mataji: What is her name.
Sahaja Yogini: Lean. [Leila Matkar] David Leila name. He had given her Grosvenor House flat and settled twenty-five million pounds on her.

Shri Mataji: All right. He did all that and then tortured her very much. And she did not know what to do, you see. So, one day she ran away from the house, again she ran away from the house to her father’s place. And there she studied. And by studying and all that, she got a degree and all that. And she became a director in, what is it called?
Sahaja Yogini: [Unclear].
Shri Mataji: Handlooms. Handlooms and handicrafts. She started advising governments and things like that. Again, he came. He took her up again. And she again thought, “He is my husband” and all that. And again he was so nasty to her. Then one day she just left home and went to another friend who was a minister’s wife. But she had herself suffered a lot also. She actually, she is My disciple. And she brought her. And then after she, somehow or other, managed to get out of them and she got out. And then she came here with her son. He studied, he started accountancy. He is a very clever boy, very, very clever boy. And she also has a daughter. So, she started a business with her daughter. Now this man, when she told Me all this, I was really in so much pain. So, I said that, “This man is going to get very sick. He is going to be absolutely destroyed”.
Sahaja Yogini: He is very sick now.
Shri Mataji: He came to London.
Sahaja Yogini: Just yesterday he left. He was staying in a hotel here. He is very sick.

Shri Mataji: And she said that, “He has become like a monster now. He wants to have food every half an hour”.
Sahaja Yogini: Very high diabetes. Very high diabetes. So, of course, my son out of courtesy, went to see him. Because he had come he said, “After all, he is my father. I don’t want to really depend on him. So, I can call him”.

He found him so sick that every half an hour he would ask for food. And that too very, very sweet thing, you know, “sandesh” (a Bengali sweet) and that. Ravi says he was surprised. He was taken aback. That a set of food is brought say, in the morning breakfast with a set of four or five toast, eggs, bacon, coffee and everything. He eats it. And then – seven-thirty. By nine-thirty he is hungry again. Wants another set of meal.Shri Mataji: Horrible.

Other Sahaja Yogini: So, what you do think of that?

Sahaja Yogini: And he can’t walk from here to there without panting.

Shri Mataji: They have all back on [UNCLEAR] now. He used her …

Other Sahaja Yogini: You see, I used to think about God and religion. And these religions say if you are a good wife you should stay by your husband in spite of what he has…sorry for his sickness; I can’t say that. I can’t agree with that. Because you are also a person who has to evolve. Why should you be shut down and tortured like that?

Shri Mataji: But what happened, in the olden days it happened. It happened like that.

Sahaja Yogini: It is difficult in India, to, you know, just leave and come out of the house. Especially in orthodox families.

Shri Mataji: And moreover a woman stuck onto that, she developed her own powers inside. You see, she developed her power. And you see, in India, a woman who is devoted is the most powerful thing. I tell you she is even more powerful than even Krishna was also. I am afraid of “pativratas” (dedicated wives) also sometimes. You see, by their dedication and all that they achieve their power. You see, something like those – (in Hindi), what are “tapasvis” called? Ascetics. The people who have worked out very much. Like that you know. And very, very strong-willed women we have there. And Krishna you see was cursed by one of them once upon a time. And He had to die. Because they become very powerful. Gandhari.

Other Sahaja Yogini: Because of all the things they have to put up with. And fight against and grow through.

Shri Mataji: You see what – they fight it and build themselves up inside. They go on fighting and build themselves up. But that is not the way I would say for Sahaja. Sahaja did not say that. If the husband is that bad, such a monster then better give him up. But then don’t marry another horrible fellow. Do not go on choosing…

Other Sahaja Yogini: You are all laughing but this is my third attempt. And I ought to be getting very powerful by now. I have been with this one nine years and he gets steadily worse.

Shri Mataji: So it is better to shut down that man you see. And you get to God’s life. All your life where are you going to fight it out? So that is not a Sahaja method.

Sahaja Yogini: [UNCLEAR/ anyway, fight without any return].

Shri Mataji: You see, but what to do? I would say it is better some social reforms must be made and some compromise must be brought in between husband and wife. And people should not marry who have no proper ideas about marriage. They should be properly brought up you see. Sahaja Yogis are easier husband and wife. If there are two Sahaja Yogis they can marry better. But they must cleanse themselves and they should be much clearer and must be integrated people. Then it is easier to marry them.

Sahaja Yogini: [UNCLEAR]. I have always searched for meaning in life. And I have always believed in God. And I always had a lot of faith. I did not know where to look. My husband is a completely logical, highly intellectual person with a scientific type of mind. Psychiatry, psychology that is his job.

Shri Mataji: Oh God!

Sahaja Yogini: And he thinks, you know, I am just crazy.

Shri Mataji: You see, because the psychologist and the psychiatrist always catch from the patients that come to them.

Sahaja Yogini: And that is my life every day, actually.

Shri Mataji: And that is why they are so absurd. They are very absurd.

[UNCLEAR/multiple people talking].

Shri Mataji: What happens, they free those patients. And when they free those patients they catch from them. These patients are abnormal, pathological cases. But they make them general patients. They call them general. Like they will generalise everything. Saying that a woman, a mother’s love, a child’s love is sexual. All this you see is generalisation style. Because you see, they themselves are caught up by one pathological case like that who tells them like this. And then they give an idea like that. So it happens. So that is why they are also pathologically affected. They don’t know. You will be surprised now after realisation you will see – if there is that kind of a person even a little bit mentally upset if you go near that person you feel terrible.

Sahaja Yogini: Yes, this what keeps happening to me all the time. I can’t stay in the same room for longer than an hour.

Shri Mataji: You are smart.

Sahaja Yogini: I have to get out of the room.

Shri Mataji: That will teach you how to …

Other Sahaja Yogini: After Ravi came home from the hotel, I have been feeling miserable. I think he has got [UNCLEAR/parasite] into the house.

Shri Mataji: No, no good, that one is no good.

Sahaja Yogi: [UNCLEAR/South African one].

Shri Mataji: From where does he come, from South Africa? He is not so good, you know, he has got back trouble; he is not so good.

Sahaja Yogini: Ma, even I read some poster, some Soham astrologer. Soham. Who is this Soham?

Shri Mataji: Soham is horrible. He is the worst of all. He is much worse. At least, he is not a monster. He is not. But he is a mislaid fellow. He is mislaid. But his disciple is with the owner of the place.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes.

Shri Mataji: So, he has given you free to live there, is it?

Sahaja Yogi: He has [UNCLEAR/given] a meditation centre for the whole of [UNCLEAR] London.

Shri Mataji: And how many you have there?

Sahaja Yogi: Four of us live there and we have about a hundred and fifty meditators.

Shri Mataji: Oh God! They all will be spoiling their Agyna. Very bad Agnya you have got, all of you, you know.

Sahaja Yogi: I didn’t know.

Shri Mataji: Yes. It is very bad, even you have that. You do that “trataka” (third eye meditation) no?

Sahaja Yogi: Not everybody, but I do.

Shri Mataji: Yes, very bad Agyna. You too have a bad Agyna. Have you got a limbu? Let us try on his Agnya. But you see he will be spoiling hundred and fifty people. Oh God! What is he doing? What is the matter? Come, come I will [UNCLEAR] your Agnya.

You see now, you feel your forehead. You see. Now feel. You can feel it? It is very much, too much swollen. David had one of the worst you can say.

Sahaja Yogi: Oh yes, I know. He could see his [UNCLEAR].

Shri Mataji: It is very wrong. [UNCLEAR/Binny], does not understand. Sinful. To spoil somebody’s Agnya like that. You have a hundred and fifty meditators. They come down to that hall?

Sahaja Yogi: Some of them. Not all. We usually have an initiation centre as well.

Shri Mataji: What do you do, initiation?

Sahaja Yogi: Puja.

Shri Mataji: Whose puja?

Sahaja Yogi: Guruji’s. But it’s you know, its…

Shri Mataji: They are all foreigners or Indian?

Sahaja Yogi: Indians too, all nationalities.

Shri Mataji: Have to talk to them. Is wrong. He has no knowledge about it. Is terrible. Like I was stunned while talking to you.

All right, you sing Kartikeya, he will be all right. He will be better. Sing Kartikeya.

Hello, come along. What about the lights? Have you forgotten about the lights?

Sahaja Yogi: No, there was a blackout. It is a power cut.

Shri Mataji: Oh, I see. Good. You should get some more of these I think.

Sahaja Yogi: They are all sold out. Because everyone has got the same idea.

Shri Mataji: But what about the “deepa” (lamp) or something? You can make out of oil. Have you got some oil? I can make one nice one.

Sahaja Yogini: How much more [UNCLEAR] these [UNCLEAR/type]?

Shri Mataji: All right.

Sahaja Yogi: We have the aarti recorded of the Ganesha one?

Shri Mataji: Taped?

Sahaja Yogi: Yes.

Shri Mataji: Is there?

Sahaja Yogi: I have sort of got it [UNCLEAR/on].

Shri Mataji: Put it on. Will be a good idea. That is the best way. Yes, take it out. That is why you are greying. You are so young. Why should you grey?

Sahaja Yogi: Which one, the Ganesha one or the aarti?

Shri Mataji: You people never felt the heaviness in the head or anything? Never. Thank God David at least felt a headache.

Sahaja Yogi: Put on the Ganesha? The Ganesha.

Shri Mataji: Yes, Ganesha you put.

[Break in recording].

Shri Mataji: What about you? I mean not that he is a bad man. I would not call him bad. Not a monster. Monster is that who knows he is doing wrong and still doing it. This is just like a naïve personality.

[UNCLEAR/Sahaja Yogi is describing some catches to Nabhi and Vishuddhi].

Shri Mataji: You must use rationality. This is a test I said that he is not doing [UNCLEAR]. You have to become. This a test you must to put to everything in modern times. Now it is nothing doing but becoming. You must become. Had enough of it. You have done everything in your previous lives. Otherwise, you would not have had it. Now no more doing the other thing. We are going to have it. This is like, “They are making the cake, they are making the cake. Now how long?” When are we going to have to cake? We should ask. After all, we are seekers no doubt. We are truthfully seeking. Then now no more of this kind of lecturing to ask. Give us [UNCLEAR/ the right?].

[Tape 2].

Shri Mataji: Very great. No, not yet. Want to sit like that? Yes, it is all right. Just see. Is it better now?

Really, is it better? Just see. Better?

Sahaja Yogi: I think it will take some time.

Shri Mataji: All right. But is it better in any chance? Since yesterday it is better. Much better.

Hold it tight to My foot. Hold it tight.

Are you feeling throbbing? Throbbing in My ears. Are you feeling?

That is it. That’s it. Agnya is spoilt. See, most of it is mesmerism. It is mesmerism also. They do mesmerise. But this is when they take, they do it to do something you know. Then what they do? They do not mesmerise you, but they spoil your chakra and mesmerise you that way. But I must say you are very independent people the way you have denied that. By understanding that was something wrong. It is something great. This shows your willpower. Otherwise, it is not easy to get out of their clutches. See, they are very powerful, okay? Isn’t it? To understand that this is wrong. In spite of their mesmerism and everything.

Ask him to put the hand out towards the Agnya, this side.

[UNCLEAR/Sahaja Yogis whispering to each other].

Now how is it? Just see it. Now both. That is it.

How are you, Vinny? Better? [UNCLEAR]. But you take this one. Put it under your pillow tonight for two days. And Thursday throw it away and come and see Me then.

Ah now. It is throbbing is it? Minutely. Slightly it has started. And he gave you a mantra also. That is why Vishuddhi is bad. What mantra did he give you? Better tell Me. Don’t hesitate.

Sahaja Yogi: Am-bi-um. Am-bi-um.

Shri Mataji: Am-bi-um? Am-bi-um?

Sahaja Yogini: It could be Ambika.

Shri Mataji: Ambikam. Is it Ambikam.

Sahaja Yogi: Am-bi-um.

Another Sahaja Yogi: He is a South African. Might be a variation.

Sahaja Yogi: But he isn’t. He is Indian. [UNCLEAR/He is Brahmin].

Other Sahaja Yogi: I thought he came from South Africa.

Sahaja Yogi: [He lives in/UNCLEAR].

Shri Mataji: Ambium? Am-bi-yum it can be. Am-bi-yum. [UNCLEAR/Uday?] chakra itself. That is the problem. It is the best way to get you entangled you see. Putting on the Heart. You feel insecure.

Sahaja Yogi: Not terribly unsure. Uncertain.

Shri Mataji: That’s it. That is what it is.

Just see him.

Sahaja Yogi: Mostly on the left side.

Shri Mataji: Left side is catching? Left Agnya?

Sahaja Yogi: Also it starts from there.

Shri Mataji: Oh. He tried something with the private parts, is it? Did he touch his private parts? No.

Sahaja Yogi: David and Thomas also had the same thing.

Shri Mataji: And there was a girl also of the same style as you are.

Sahaja Yogi: She was here last night.

Shri Mataji: She was very much the same. You see I could see from the frequency. And when I asked David, “Is she also seeing the same guru?”. He said, “Yes”. I said, “See. She is suffering from the same problem”. What was her name? She told Me. But he recognised. David said yes, she is one of them.

Sahaja Yogi: [UNCLEAR].

Shri Mataji: Oh God, hundred and fifty of them are finished. Ian? Vinny, you are real seekers you know. You are very truthful people. I feel sorry for you. Because you are people for whom I have been born.

Now, is he better?

Sahaja Yogi: It is clear now.

Shri Mataji: Clearing out. Still, on the Agyna is it? On the left?

Sahaja Yogi: Right Vishuddhi.

Shri Mataji: Right Vishuddhi but left Agyna. Right Vishuddhi is not much but left Agyna. Mostly men who [UNCLEAR] it is left Agyna.

Sahaja Yogi: More like right Agyna now.

Shri Mataji: Now it is on the right Agyna.

Sahaja Yogi: It is cool on the left but right…

Shri Mataji: What did you say here?

Sahaja Yogi: It is cooler on the left.

Shri Mataji: Cooler on the left? Than the right? This mandala business is on the right-hand side. Oh God.

Are you feeling any throbbing? On your finger? Feeling the heat in the back.

No, it is all right. Are you feeling the heat in the hand now? At the back. You are feeling still. A lot of heat.

All right. I will cool it down.


Now? Better?

Sahaja Yogi: I am feeling right Agyna.

Shri Mataji: Right Agnya is it?

Now. Still there? Little bit.

Now? Still there a little bit.

Ha! Clear.

Sahaja Yogi: The whole [UNCLEAR] is better in general. It is just the [UNCLEAR/faint] which is there.

Shri Mataji: You know you have to forgive also someone. All right? Forgive him only. He has done it through ignorance. Forgive him. It is all right. Now it is better. The same only [UNCLEAR]. Forgive him. Are you wearing something given by him?

Sahaja Yogi: [UNCLEAR/photo of guruji].

Shri Mataji: [UNCLEAR]. Take it out. Till then it will never work out. Take it out.

Sprinkle water. It is gold?

Sahaja Yogi: [UNCLEAR].

Shri Mataji: He is better now. Bring some water. “Subramaniam” you sing. It is a very good thing. For Agnya, ideal. It is horrid. He will improve in no time. [Sahaja Yogini sings “Subramaniam Namaste” a well-known raga in Carnatic style, in praise of Shri Kartikeya].

Shri Mataji: Very good. It is better now.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Is it better now? Is it better?

Sahaja Yogi: YesI think it is better all except the Left Vishuddhi is the only one catching.

Shri Mataji: Must have been given some prasada or something? Were you given prasada? Ha. Now?

Sahaja Yogi: It is better, it is better.

[Sahaja Yogini sings a stotra Syamala Stuti, in praise of the Mother Goddess in Carnatic style].

Shri Mataji: Wah, wah, beautiful.

It is better now. You are better. You see, in this shloka, what they have said is sometimes very interesting that “Oh Goddess, you are very fond of music”. It’s [UNCLEAR] isn’t it?

Better now, isn’t it?

Sahaja Yogi: I don’t know Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: How are you feeling? How are you feeling?

Sahaja Yogi: I feel good.

Shri Mataji: Feeling lighter? Cooler in the hands? Better?

Another Sahaja Yogi: It is a little bit cooler on the left I think.

Sahaja Yogi: It is okay.

Shri Mataji: All right. You won’t say right is cooler than left.

Sahaja Yogi: No.

Shri Mataji: Put your hand there. You have to forgive. You must forgive. Just forgive. This is the thing that is stopping. You have to say; what is stopping (you)? I mean, it is a myth. You know, when we say we don’t forgive people. It is a myth. Let us say Lord’s prayer for him because he has got Agnya and it will be cleared. Say it thrice, all right. All of us should say it. Come along.

[Everyone recites The Lord’s Prayer three times].

Shri Mataji: How are you feeling now? Better?

Sahaja Yogi: Yes.

Shri Mataji: Good. You got it. Now very good. May God bless you. Come along. May God bless you. Come along. Good. Now you are all right. Definitely. Aren’t you? Keep it (lemon) for your [UNCLEAR], for some nights. That day, Thursday throw it in some water. And come and see Me. Put it in a paper. Like a paper bag. Nicely packed. It will go away.

It is good now. That is better. May God bless you.

Sahaja Yogi: Thank you, Mataji.

Shri Mataji: So, the only thing you have to do – “I have to forgive, I have to forgive”. Everybody. Any thought comes in it – forgive. You see, now temper will be rising now against the gurus, against this, forgive them, forgive them. The greatest weapon is to forgive.

Mohammed Saheb has told us another one is to write their names, give them a bandhan nicely and beat them with shoes. That is what. We do it. But this is also a very good way of forgiving. If your forgiving capacity is great, then you don’t need it. But, you see,  sometimes it is very necessary. These people will beat themselves. You see, write their own names. If the ego is there the best thing is to write down your name, put a bandhan and beat yourself. Maybe your ego is troubling you. Good.

Sahaja Yogi: My feet [UNCLEAR].

Shri Mataji: All right. What about your problem? You want to go? All right. May God bless you. Hope you will be here on Thursday, will you be?

Sahaja Yogini: No.

Shri Mataji: No? You will be going back.

Sahaja Yogini: I will try to come next week, Mataji.

Shri Mataji: May God bless you. Give My love to your children.

All right. It is much better now. How are you now?

Sahaja Yogini: I am much lighter.

Sahaja Yogi: Is it your handbag?

Shri Mataji: Is it your bag?

Sahaja Yogini: No, [UNCLEAR].

Shri Mataji: Now, Can I have her name? You got the photograph? Let us see. Which is the one?

Sahaja Yogini: This is my aunt and this is my mother.

Shri Mataji: And who is this one?

Sahaja Yogini: This is my aunt who is the sister of my mother. She is very, very negative all the time.

Shri Mataji: Oh, terrible.

Sahaja Yogini: Yes, it is very..she gives us a lot of pain. And my mother is also very spiritual and my mother can’t stand it. But she loves her and she can’t help her.

Shri Mataji: Just look at this, it is very funny. Shaking with her. What is her name, Anna?

Sahaja Yogini: Erna, Erna.

Shri Mataji: How you do spell it?

Sahaja Yogini: E-r-n-a.

Shri Mataji: Erna. What is it?

Sahaja Yogi: Her bag.

Shri Mataji: Her bag? Which one is that?

Another Sahaja Yogini: I came and sat by you, Mataji.

Shri Mataji: You must have put it somewhere here?

Sahaja Yogi: What colour is it?

Shri Mataji: This is yours. Thank God. You have to find it.

This is (lemon), you have to keep it under your bed for two days. And then throw it away in the water somewhere. All right? Under your pillow. Erna, will she co-operate if you tell her something?

Sahaja Yogini: Yes she will. Yes. She phoned me today and I told her.

Shri Mataji: She would be better.

Sahaja Yogini: Yes she will be.

Shri Mataji: She will be better. But in any case, you tell her to take the photo treatment. And that they will tell you. Gavin, you explain her nicely how to do it. He will tell you just now.

All right? She will be better. Is this your mother? Which one is your mother?

Sahaja Yogi: Did she find her bag?

Sahaja Yogini: This is my mother. These pictures are not so [UNCLEAR/good]. See there is one more.

Shri Mataji: This is who?

[Possible break in recording].

Shri Mataji: …wealth. But the wealth we understand in the material way is not the “vaibhava” (prosperity), “sampada” (abundance) you see. Even a man who looks poor to you may be a “vaibhavashali”. Like a king, he is sitting down. Not bothered about these small things. So, that sort of a thing. You see, if you use those for the wrong things, for the bad things, in the left-hand side it is the sign. Completely catching. I don’t know how she stood that horrible fellow.

[UNCLEAR/Sahaja Yogini replies].

Shri Mataji: And also Agnya, she is catching very badly. Though she might have been born Realised. Might have been. At least, she is an awakened person. And it would have been easier for her to know this man than you people can. They have an innate built-in eye you see. They just refuse.

[UNCLEAR/Sahaja Yogini replies].

Shri Mataji: She should. She should. [UNCLEAR/catching]. She was given Krishna’s mantra also.

Sahaja Yogini: I don’t know.

Shri Mataji: You are not supposed to tell. Your own daughter, you cannot tell. I think must be Krishna’s because Vishuddhi is catching very badly. So you can see now – this lady is your aunty?

Sahaja Yogini: No my mother. The photos are not good.

Sahaja Yogi: Same lady.

Shri Mataji: Same person.

Sahaja Yogini: [UNCLEAR].

Shri Mataji: Both are the same type of person. All photographs. See I hope she comes back and does it because at this age it is rather difficult to stick on.

Sahaja Yogini: [UNCLEAR/give up].

Shri Mataji: You see, these are very simple people. I tell you, what I call the spiritual naiveness. One thing, one, they do not know. I think because of the Pope or because of churches you have had organised religion. That they do not know religion cannot be organised, firstly and secondly money cannot be given to a person who talks of religion. Only once, Christ was sold for thirty (coins). Only once. And what happened? You are selling Him every time you are paying money for Him. I hope to see her. But this lady is to be helped very much. For that [UNCLEAR/he] will tell you what is to be done. Write it down properly, how to be done, photographs. [UNCLEAR].

[UNCLEAR/Shri Mataji and Sahaja Yogini are discussing].

Shri Mataji: See if you are seeking you have a problem. If you are not seeking you are sitting down there. So what to do? It is like a train which is moving in the wrong direction. Or it is not moving. What to do? Is a problem like that.

It will be all right. Now, how are you feeling?

Sahaja Yogini: It is fine.

Shri Mataji: Hands are all right? Everything? Vibrations?

Good. You are really remarkable.

How are you [UNCLEAR]. Now you have become a real Sufi, you know. You are absolutely a real Sufi now, in the real sense of the world. Now you will understand all the Sufis of the world. See, otherwise, they had no meaning. Sufis – who was Sufi, who was not Sufi – now you will know. Now with vibrations, you will know who was a real Sufi. All right? We had a very big one in India – Nizamuddin Saab. One very big – Nizamuddin Saab, in Delhi. In Delhi, in the times of a king – who was the king?

Sahaja Yogini: Tuglaq.

Shri Mataji: Tuglaq. Tuglaq. But his name was Muhammad Tuglaq. Muhammad Tuglaq you see. And he was such a horrid king. He got after this Sufi. He was this – Nizamuddin Khan Saab. He said, “You must come to me and say [UNCLEAR]”. He said, “I will not say it”. And he refused. And ultimately you see after some time, he tried everything. Destroyed him in every way possible. But nothing could be done. In the end, he said that if you don’t come and do that, I will kill you. It came to that. And, he said, “All right, I will see about it”. And within seven days this king was killed – by his own nephew or son.

Sahaja Yogini: Actually, he was coming to kill this Nizamuddin. When he was coming people said, “He is coming, could you please get ready to receive him”? He said, “Let him arrive, then I will think about it”. And he did not come. Actually what happened – he camped somewhere nearby and his own nephew wanted to kill him. So, at night, he cut off his throat in the camp.

Shri Mataji: Camp.

Sahaja Yogini: Tent. The whole tent fell on him.

Shri Mataji: Died in that. Then you have to do it, you see. Then don’t call it violence. These horrible people. What to do? You have to kill them. What is the use of killing also? They have been killed many a time – again they are born, again they are killed, again…This time, let them hang by the nearest tree for some time and be in the coma. That is the best way I have found out. Terrible people.

Now don’t think too much about your aunt, all right? If you think too much about it, you will catch. You have to think about where you are. You are here now. You see, she is on the left-hand side. In the centre – Any questions anybody has, I will say them now; otherwise, I will tell you about it.

What about you? Better now? Getting cooling? Cool in the hand?

Sahaja Yogi: Yes. My feet as well.

Shri Mataji: Feet as well? Good idea.

Sahaja Yogi: Only on this side though.

Shri Mataji: On this side? Not on the other side. All right. Just put that under My foot. What is that supposed to be?

Sahaja Yogi: It is a beeper you know. Telling you to telephone someone.

Another Sahaja Yogi: Put it in a bucket of water.

Sahaja Yogi: So, you can never escape.

[Sahaja Yogis are laughing].

Shri Mataji: What happened? What happened?

Sahaja Yogi: When that beep happened she had to go and telephone someone – like a good little girl.

Sahaja Yogini: Like a road block (?).

Another Sahaja Yogini: That reminds, is it?

Another Sahaja Yogini: Yes. It reminds you – you have to telephone to somebody.

Sahaja Yogi: It is an order. It is an order.

Sahaja Yogini: Funny, never had such an instrument.

Another Sahaja Yogi: Give it vibrations so [UNCLEAR].

Sahaja Yogini: I just switched it off.

Shri Mataji: But you know – if you know how to meditate on the waves of your mind, you see. Timing – you need not see the watch at all. The timing – just it tells you, this time this is that – everything works out. But if you do that way, you see, it is another kind of concentration which can work out. You see, at that time it will come to you, that this is to be done. But higher than that is this way – is that you just don’t have time, no concentration, just leave it. All right?

So, you are going on the road. Suddenly you feel like turning on to another side. You turn, you find a person standing there. Finish your job. And that is why you become dynamic. You finish so many things in such a short time. That you do not know – otherwise it would have taken too much time for you.

Today it happened to us also. I was going with Jane – did she tell you? And we had to buy some mirrors and things. So we asked them where do we get the mirrors? They said you go to such and such place. There we went and what we find? It is absolutely interesting. It was the frames. I was telling you about the frames. And there they were. Just the frames, no mirrors. They said you get the mirrors from such a shop, but these are the frames. So, you see, everything is; these material things work out just like that. You don’t have to bother. Nothing important. But even emotional and everything, you become so dynamic.

Some people who have never spoken, have never given a lecture – they start speaking, they start controlling, and they start giving realisations. Even small children can do that. You become so confident and you become the instrument of God – that it starts working. And you are so confident because you know it’s not your own, it is coming in. Now don’t worry.

Sahaja Yogini: No I am not.

Shri Mataji: Don’t worry. Pay attention here. Pay attention here. All right?

Another Sahaja Yogini: Let it go.

Shri Mataji: Let it go, let it go. Smile away. Smile away. It will go away. You see, it is not your responsibility. Now somebody is your mother, somebody is your father – in a way it is a part in you. But to a point. To a point. When you have accepted Rama as your father, forget it. That is his job, to look after them. See like, some of the parents are so orthodox, so fanatic and so much half-baked – that like, you cannot do anything about them now. They are so spoilt. For example – Hello come along. Ah, ha. Everything you bring something. Must you?

Come along. Now you should not think like that all the time paying attention to them. Oh, my father is like that, mother like that, no. First, you achieve your own goal. First of all, you achieve your manifestation. First of all, you achieve your powers and be a master of that. You master yourself completely. You become the master of yourself. When you are – May God bless you. Thank you. Thank you.

All right – it should be eaten by all of us today.

All right – vibrated na?

So, first thing is that you pay attention to yourself. Love yourself. Know your valuation. Estimate yourself. And enjoy. First of all, establish yourself. Then you will be amazed that you will not have to bother about anybody. You will touch and the thing will happen. Because you become the light you see. A complete steady light. Which knows how to handle itself. Control. Where to put the candle, how to enlighten. Everything you know. You master the thing completely. Then things will come up.

I will tell you about Gavin’s example. Here he is. He is just like you, was just like you. Not now, of course. Now he was very worried about his parents. Naturally, everybody wants – his parents are very good people otherwise. He wanted his parents to get Realisation. And so especially he took leave, he took his wife, both of them are Realised people. They went down. And I was a little smiling at that time. I did not say much. I said, “All right, go ahead”.

But they found the parents were very difficult. Difficult for them to accept anybody but Christ. Because from childhood it is told, the brain. It is difficult because they are quite old now. So, you see it was rather difficult. They tried to break it. Then they came back. But I was amazed; they were not disappointed. They think it is difficult now. Next time they go, it will be better.

So, first of all, build up yourself fully. If you build up yourself you will be amazed how beautiful it would be. For your own life. And that itself, the beauty of your life will spread itself. People will say, “Just look at this person. Where was he? What has happened? Now how is it?” This one is sitting here. I tell you he was one-third of what – you can sit on the chair here, you will be more comfortable. On the chair. So, they looked at him – he was very thin; he was one third or one fourth?

Sahaja Yogi: I don’t know.

Shri Mataji: Like the jockey you have.

Sahaja Yogi: Rather thin(?) style.

Shri Mataji: Last night’s jockey. What was his name?

Sahaja Yogi: Lester Piggot.

Shri Mataji: Something like that he was, you know. But now he is changed. He is artistic. So different. See, his health is different. Everything. It itself is a certificate. And that changes much more people than any argument, saying anything, nothing can change them. And moreover you can work on them. When you are such a master of the whole thing, you can work on them. First of all, you must check on yourself. You check the thing inside. Your vibrations must be checked. And you must ask others to check.

For example, now you are with a problem. Supposing one has no problems. He thinks you don’t have a problem. All right. You do one thing – you sit on the photograph; see for yourself. You can [UNCLEAR]. Supposing you cannot feel anything – then ask her. And you check her. And you won’t feel bad about each other. Because you see, you are now separated from yourself. You will be amazed. You will say, “I am caught up here, I am caught up there. There is a problem here, there is a blockage here, there is a blockage there”. You yourself would like to clear it out. You will say, “No I am not well. There is something wrong with me”. Normally if you tell somebody, “There is something wrong with you”; you might get a slap.

But now after Realisation, because you are separated you want to be cleared out yourself. [UNCLEAR]. Lots of things are still to be cleared out, isn’t it, Boghdan (?). You don’t mind it at all. On the contrary, you feel happy that it is going on. Because it becomes like your cloth. Your being becomes like your cloth. You see, there is some sort of a spot on it which must be removed – you say, “Mother, there is a spot, you must clear it”. It does not become your…you are not identified with it. But you see, this body, this mind – everything is a vehicle. Like your car. It is not you. You are your Spirit. You are that Eternal Being. You are not this…outside.

So, once you are identified with that, you say, this body of yours need repairs; let us take it. Like the car, let us take it to Mother’s shop, get it repaired. It is like that. Nobody feels bad – on the contrary you feel happy about it. But because you are identified with all those things, you do not want to do it. You feel nervous.

Now. Better now. Much better. Now, say “forgiven”. Say “forgiven”. Inside your heart, you just say, “I have forgiven them”. Come along. Say it. Just for saying’s sake, you say it.

Sahaja Yogi: [UNCLEAR].

Shri Mataji: [UNCLEAR/No kamsa]. You are placed. All right?  And you will be amazed – when you will meet them now, they will be changed people. They will be very different. Their attitudes will change. It is impossible for human beings not to respect Divinity. It is writ large on their face, you know. If they are human beings. If they are monsters, forget it. But if they are not monsters, they will. If they are, drunk, of course, maybe different. But if they are not drunk, if they see, then it is fine. Because it is writ large on your faces.

You can see that he is a man who is a divine person. Definitely, he is. But monsters and those who are enticed by monsters or who are possessed, or who are drunk or have not got their awareness as human beings have, naturally I mean, you cannot expect much from them. They are the people who have crucified Christ. Some of them were egoistical. Ego is also another possession. We are possessed with the idea of ourselves. Like Napolean, once such a great man. You possess yourself also sometimes. When it is separated you see yourself in your pure Self.

Now let us see where are we and where we could have been. So, as I told you, in a human being, we are placed first of all, in a situation where we jump in from past to future, future to past. All the time. Our mind is thinking either about the past or about the future. The present moment is very little. Very little. The now. Is very little. In between. So, we are jumping like this. You see, the waves of our thoughts – they come either from the past and go to the future. Either we are there or here. Never in the centre. All right?

So, when we start from the past, if you rationalise it, it does not exist anymore. If you think of the future it does not exist either. May not be the same. Supposing you decide that, “No, tomorrow I must meet Mother”. Mataji may not be there, She may not meet, may not happen – anything is possible. So, what is true is the present. Today you are sitting down here. But while sitting down here you are thinking of the past and the future. And you missing the joy of this moment. Because at this time you have to alert and enjoy the joy of this moment. Which is tremendous, dynamic.

So, at this point of, the crossing point of future and past – you see like this – this is the swastika as it moves – but the destruction swastika is different from the construction one. The one we use is the construction one. All right. Between the two, is the central point in which you have to move straight forward, in the centre. So, you move on – now, now, now, now, now, now, now, now. At that point, there is no thought. So, you are thoughtlessly aware. You can watch. You can watch the past. You can watch the future. But when you are at the present, God knows how things are working out, fit into the moment, sort of. The more areas you make or collect, God to act into that present moment, the more forces can move in and help you.

So, that area has to be made. So, how do we make that area? For Sahaja Yogis, very important.The first attitude should be, “Let it be”. Whatever “Thy will be done”. Is a mantra. You know, “Thy will be done” is a mantra, is a very big mantra. I would say that if you want to write the central point, the essence, the tattva of Sahaja Yoga, is “Thy will be done”. Is the essence. Now when you say that, you will say, “Mother, are we not a person? Are we useless?”. No. You are very great. You are the chosen ones as the instrument of the Dynamic. If you were not that great, you would not have been chosen. But the One that flows the dynamic, if you become that, it is very great. But you are not so. You are the instrument. So how do we do it? As I said, the first and the foremost mantra is, “Thy will be done”. Thy will be done.

Thy then becomes I after some time. Because you realize after some time that you are a part and parcel of that Thy, you see. Like this finger is a part and parcel of this body. It does not say, this finger, “Thy will be done”. Nothing But it acts according to the brain that is telling it. It is absolutely one with that. So whether you say it or not, it acts. It works out. But if this finger starts suddenly thinking, “I will be on my own”, then malignancy starts. This is the malignancy. Malignancy is that when you say that, “I will be on my own”. If the cell starts saying that, “I will be on my own” then there is no tuning, no harmony, there is no relationship, there is no coordination and there is no control.

Once that is broken, society becomes a victim of cancer. Is a social cancer. There is also an emotional cancer. Social and emotional and a political cancer. And all kinds of cancers develop. When we forget the unity of one body. Of One. And it is so much integrated. See now, this flower is here. Just now, I am thinking about this flower. Now, look at this. It is so fantastic. We take it for granted otherwise.

See, it was grown on a rose tree. Think of the rose tree also as a Sahaja. Just think. Can you think how a rose tree was created? Out of what seed? You know what is the seed? It is just a small little seed. Very small. Out of that, this is created. But this one especially was not created out of the seed but out of the stem. Just imagine. This was done by human beings. He has got the power to create a rose tree out of a stem. It is a living thing he has done.

So, a special power human beings have. That, certain things, he can do that. He can transplant living things from living things. Living from living. Though he cannot create living. Now the Sahaja Yogis can give the living process of evolution in their hands. With their fingers. With their mind. With their chitta, is the attention. Now, where are we? Our attention has to be in the centre. In the present moment.

Now here is a rose. You are watching this. Now, what is the best way of watching this? To get completely out of it is to be in thoughtless awareness. So what happens? You are thoughtless. Now all the joy of creating it is inside this. All the truth that is this rose is, is inside it. As soon as you become thoughtless, the whole thing goes into you as the principle, as the essence of it. And you feel that joy, as the essence of it. No thought about it. Nothing. But just the joy. Just the joy.

Marie, you wait till I finish My lecture all right? If you don’t mind.

So, you do that in thoughtless awareness. Can you watch this? Can you watch this without thinking? Let us see.


A thrill will pass through you after some time. Those who are Realised, can. They are without any thought. They are just looking at it. No thought is coming. Now, I remove this. Is “alambana” (base). But now you watch My face.


Now, most of you are not thinking. But something is going on in your face. You can feel it. Some movement in the face is going on. Some sort of energy. There is a little pressure here. Some people are getting it.

So, you see, the energy from This face is flowing to you. And is organising it. Through your eyes now it is going to the head. Now it is coming up here. It is trying to take it out. All these problems together. So, a force is coming, like the force of a river or a jet coming on your face. Very gentle it is, very gentle. And it is trying to correct it. You see it is working out. Now you are not thinking about it. It is just working out. It is happening. It is working out. It is working out still. Now it is coming here. For every one of you, it is working out that way. Like in the cell, many cells together, when the bloodstream flows in you see, all these cells open out. And they open out at different timings. For them, there is a timing, not for you, so much. Of course, there is, that way, but then they open out.

Now with hands, you have opened out. Now the flow has started flowing in, getting inside and you feel something happening to your face. You don’t know what is happening, but the glow is coming outside. There see that glow on your face. You see. And that is why a person who is realised shows the flow. Now, what is happening? Is this integrated force, this force of love, this essence comes out.

[Tape 3]

You burp out, you see these are some sort of things inside, these obstructions. They get out. And you forget the time. You are in the present moment. Now you feel the flow coming up? Still on the Agnya. There is a problem. So, at the present moment when you are – this is the present moment and you are receiving – you are in complete joy and bliss. Because you have come to this point. To this point, you have come. Still, if you feel some heat in your head coming out. You see – not yet coming out. It is throwing away the heat from your face. Now you have been walking on the street. Correct? Little heat. Still not – the cool is not there. But after some time you will find a cool breeze will be there. So, all that collection on your face itself is a very subtle thing inside you know. Whatever is in there is thrown out.

Now, how? There is a hole made. From the hole, the [UNCLEAR/heat] comes out. Now, this is the baptism.

Still hot. Still hot. It has to cool down. After you cool down, you will feel the relief. It is coming. You see, it is coming.

Now, out of you some of you are overled (?), some are clear. But because we are sitting down, everybody is forcing it out. Whether you are able-bodied, or less able-bodied, makes no difference. This time we are all together, so everybody has to feel the load. You see, like supposing there is a big block we have to lift. So all of us put our hands to it. Some aren’t, some are healthy. Some are healthier people, some are weaker people. But everybody feels there is a load. And you throw it away, all of you put together. And it works out.

This is what is the collective effort. But actually, the collective effort is not done by thinking. Or by doing, “Oh I have to do it” – nothing of the kind. How you do it is, only by allowing your Kundalini to rise. Now, and while the Kundalini is rising, you must know where it is pressing and where it is not working out. Now at this time, you feel the heat is coming up here, it is coming up here. Coming to the Sahasrara. Now it depends on where it has come. Just now it has come to the Sahasrara. Most of the thing is here. You see, the problem is here. Come up here.

Now, what do you do? Depending on the chakra, wherever you find the problem is – you take the name of the deity. And you take it out. Like that. Now, at the Sahasrara, you have to take My name. That is the point. Now come along, say My name and it will clear out. They know how to say it. You see, they have made a mantra, these Sahaja Yogis only and they know how to say it. In India.

Now come along. Say it thrice and you will clear out. Because you have said the Christ thing so this is cleared out. First of all, say “Allah O Akbar” because the little problem on the left-hand side is still here. Say “Allah O Akbar” thrice and then say My mantra. It will clear out. Say now.

Let us see where it is. So you decide. I cannot give you a mantra permanently. Nothing. Depends on where is the Kundalini. Where is the problem now?

That is why in the present. In the present, you will be changing every moment. Depending on – supposing a tree has to go. It sees which way it has to move. It has to see how the root has to move. It does not decide, plan beforehand – “No, I have to go straight”. It cannot. It will see the obstruction and how it moves. The same way the Kundalini moves. Now come along.

Say it, “Allah O Akbar” thrice. Let us see now. Put your, these fingers are for him. Now say this. Come along.

Sahaja Yogis: Allah O Akbar, Allah O Akbar, Allah O Akbar.

Shri Mataji: Cleared out. Better? Now when your Sahasrara is opened out, you will be amazed, even if you put these things into your ears, you can hear everything clearly. You can hear with this thing, you can even see with this. You will be surprised. It comes to that extent that you can see through this. Because in the limbic area as you know, there are the seats of all these – the eyes, nose, ears and mouth and everything you can feel it here. Supposing your tongue has become dead. You eat something, you can feel it there. It is a medical thing. So, when this is enlightened, you can feel it and because you are aware of your Sahasrara, you can. Now say the Sahasrara. Say.

You can put your Sahasraras to Me.

Sahaja Yogis (three times): Om Twameva Sakshat Shri Mahalaxmi, Mahasaraswati, Mahakali Trigunatmika, Adi Kundalini Sakshat Shri Adishakti Sakshat Shri Bhagwati Sakshat Shri Adishakti Mataji Shri Nirmala Devi Namo Namaha.

Shri Mataji: Good. Better? It has cooled down. Cooler? Better?

Now, where is the problem you know? Put it over here.

Better now? Right hand?

Now you have to accept Me as the guru. That is the point. That is the point. That I am a Mother and Guru. It is a difficult task. But guru means something higher. All right?

Only in this lifetime, I have become this. In none of My lifetimes, I have tried this. Very difficult to become a guru. Because then you have to chide, tell people. This is wrong, that is wrong. Guru’s job is this, which is a very difficult thing. So that is why I am. I have taken up this job. Because the Guru Himself is inside. The Adi Guru is inside Me in the stomach. You can see for yourself He is there. And when He is there, you see – I Am That and He is Me. There is no difference between the two. But you have to accept Me as the guru. Then it will work out [UNCLEAR]. On the right-hand side is that.

Better now? You see, the Guru is saying, “why don’t You tell them?”. So I tell you. And that is how it is.

Good now. See the Kundalini has come up.

Look at them. How they are alert. And how they are telling you.


You see, this kind of body was made a long time back, once only. Where it was a cow. And all the Gods were put into That, and all chakras were put in. Now again it is built-in in this body of Mine, you see. And all chakras are there like a machinery. You must know that it is all there, it is working out. It will work out. But you must take more and more of it. Have as much as you like. I want to give you. It is all to be given and be distributed. To have a lot of it.

I want you to have the highest and highest of all. Let us see in one lifetime how much you can achieve. From ordinary human beings, you have become Realised souls. From Realised souls, you have to be completely realised. And then, God-realised. [UNCLEAR]. If it could be done in My lifetime, that is the greatest thing that could be done. It is the last part of the creation and it will be the greatest. Because even the devtas and all that – the Gods that were created to look after – for example, there is a God say, to look after the water or Jaladevta as you call it. There is somebody, an officer appointed to look after the water. He also cannot give Kundalini rising.

You are in the centre you see. All your work is in the centre. Evolutionary work. You don’t have to bother about this side or that side. You are in the centre. Your work is all evolutionary. You are there to give evolution to others. So, you do not have to bother, “we have to master this and master that”. No. You are on the stage. You are the real actors. They are all side people you see. They have to throw light. They have to throw water at the time it is needed, they have to do this, that is all their job is. And you just tell them. And they have to work for you. You try to verify if it is true or not. So, you are the actors on the stage. And you are the people who are going to give the show, give the drama. And they are just waiting there outside, just to help you out. You see.

So, only thing is, you have to ask for it. Anything you ask for – for example, you have seen in a drama, how the hero and heroine are painted first of all. So you go to the painter. “All right, I want like this, I want like that”. All right. They will paint. They are just appointed ones. You are the ones who have achieved it. Have been granted. You have been bestowed on.

In the style of Ganesha, you have been created. Is a special style. That is why you are more powerful. But assume. The assumption is the point. The assumption is the point. When you want to assume it you must know your values and you must know how far you are. And how much you are made. An ordinary clay, out of ordinary clay, Ganesha was made. Through ordinary people only. Middle people. These are the middle people, not extremes. Neither are they over-rich neither they are over-poor, very poor. Neither they are over-powerful, nor powerless. Out of them the middle people, the normal people, this is meant. And they are the seekers. They are taken like this and put into that.

They go into the Sahasrara of Virata. They sit in the Sahasrara, in the brain. They are the riders. That is the Kalki. The collective conscious Sahaja Yogis, that is the new incarnation, is called as Kalki. This is the tenth incarnation of Shri Vishnu.

My name Myself is Nirmala. Means that. Is the same. Means Nishkalanka. Actually, when I was born, there was no spot on My body. No blood, nothing. Without the navel cord or anything. So My grandmother, My father’s aunty, she called Me Nishkalanka. She said, is the Nishkalanka is born.

You are the people who are Kalki. You are the incarnation of Vishnu, in the sense, that you are His nerves. [UNCLEAR]. Maybe, if we need, Kalki may come, may not come. Depends. In one form. But you are the ones. You are the people who are Kalki. The collectively, one Being in the brain. Like all the nerves think the same way, feel the same way, attend to the problems in the same manner. There is a problem with the finger, all of them will support that. There is a problem here; all of them will support. Sort it out, completely. But this now has the complete integration with the heart. Complete integration. The whole body acts as one. That is why Buddha has said, “Sangham Sharanam Gachhami”. That means, “I surrender myself to the [UNCLEAR/group]” – of Realised people. Buddha means ‘Realised’. How many Buddhas there have been? How many Realised people? Seldom.

Now you are the people who have gone into this area. Now you don’t worry on this side and this side. On the right-hand side, what do we have? One the line which I showed you yesterday, which controls the right sympathetic nervous system – which caters to all your emergencies of the mental and physical side. On that line moves the deity of Hanumana. Is the preconscious mind. Is a monkey. Is a monkey if you see; the preconscious mind, which is receiving everything I am saying to you. Is the one Which is moving from conscious mind to preconscious, to the unconscious mind, to the supraconscious, it is moving from one side. Is the monkey. Is the Hanumana Himself. He is very great. He is a great trick player. He plays the trick. You see, today He has deliberately put off the light. Too much light is no good. Natural light is very good. You concentrate better with that. He is very tricky. He has a big long tail, he uses it to play. He can tickle your nose. Just now He tickled your nose, to take out your badha. Problem there.

See, like that. He is Hanumana. And actually, He is nobody but, who we know as Gabriel. Is the angel Gabriel, is Hanumana Himself. Hindus do not have a separate somebody, or Muslims do not have somebody. He is the same Gabriel who is Hanumana. If you are in a problem, if you want something to be done, you just tell Him. You tell Gabriel, “All right, now we are in problem, now solve all the problem”.

One of My two disciples who are in the, who are journalists you see. Once they were travelling by car and a big truck came in front of them. And the driver was driving, and they were at the back. And the driver was in the front. And the truck came just face-to-face with them. And they were on a slopy road, on a hill. They just say, “Mother now we leave it to you, to Hanumana. Come along”. And you will be amazed, they said, “When we opened our eyes, the truck was that side and we were here”. So many things. They are journalists, you see, they even told the newspaper people. They said, “Now you are also enticed by Her, we must say like that”. You see because they cannot accept these things you see, difficult for them. So they are all getting enticed now, into this. So [UNCLEAR], by enticement if you are saved like that, what is the harm? like a joke.

But there are things like that, He does it. Now if there is one realised soul travelling, you will be amazed – there will be an accident, but nobody will die. The whole train will go round and round but Hanumana can support it. Because He has got nine shaktis. He has got nine powers. Anima, garima, laghuma, like that. He can become big like a mountain if He wants and support something. He can become a sukshma, means He can become very subtle.

Sit down.

So, you see, this is the main thing. That you are in the centre and He is the main person supporting on the right-hand side. And who are the others who are supporting? There are many. All the five elements are on the right-hand side. This is the supraconscious. You don’t have to see light or anything. No, no, no. There is no need. “I see light” is wrong. Don’t have to see light or anything. Light is on the right-hand side. So, all these five elements as you know, they are on the right-hand side.

So the supraconscious mind, the supraconscious area is on the right-hand side of the preconscious mind. This is the preconscious mind. And this is the “mana”. In the Sanskrit language, this is the mana – preconscious mind. But for English people, I do not know what they call mana. Because in the Sanskrit language, mana means the preconscious mind. But the preconscious mind is a part of the “annamaya kosha” means the food that you take. It is built up with that. So, they said, for food one must be particular. Now see how you have deviated and how you are made into wrong things. Now they said for food you must be very particular. So you must food which is very sattvic. Is very, very divine type. You should not take food which is not divine. All right? Now how do you make out? So, they said, “If you take milk, is divine. Is sattvaguni”. Means in the centre. There are three gunas. One is the left side, is the tamoguna, the right side is the rajoguna and the centre one is the sattvaguna. Means left side is the desire or the existence of desire; the right side is the creative force or what you call rajoguna means all the activities. And the centre is the evolutionary force which is called as the sattvaguna.

So if you take to sattvaguna they said, then your mind will be all clear. But what is sattvaguna? At that point, they went wrong. They said if you eat vegetables, you will be sattvaguni. Then what about all the animals who eat grass? Is a wrong idea. It is not by eating grass you become that. No. It is a wrong idea. Sattvaguni means, the food that is in the centre. Again, too much of grass is very bad because you will get diarrhoea. Is wrong. Too much of meat is also wrong because you will get into trouble; you will get constipation. All right. What is the middle?

If you eat cows, it is wrong, because it is too hot a food and is a very big, big – you see these things are there. So, the cow is not good. Because if you eat cow’s meat, I tell you – if you stop cows meat, if you stop eating cow’s meat, your teeth will be all right. Those who eat cow’s meat always have bad teeth. So the Muslims, it is never written in the Koran – no, never – that you must eat cow’s meat. It is not a religious thing. But that time, you see, nothing was available. In that country only cows were available. It was made a divine food by giving vibrations. And people would eat. Halal. It was given to God. And then, as we say grace, it was kept in the name of God, made into divine food and then given to human beings. All right?

But who are the people who are making it halal? Are they priests? Have they got the right to make it halal? That is why the cow’s meat if you eat, is not prohibited in the places where it could be done in a halal manner. But where you can easily get a goat – goat, you see, is a mild animal – so if you get a goal, is all right; is in the centre.

But what happened at the time of “yagnyas” (fire sacrifice) and all those people were sacrificing meat and all those things; you see, Hindus used to do this. Rama used to eat meat. Krishna used to eat meat. All “Kshatriyas” (warrior castes) used to eat meat. She is sitting here, ask her. Only the people who were Brahmin, who were seeking God would give up meat. But that also started a long time later. Because if you read the Upanishads, it is there – they used to eat meat, all of them.

But the Buddhism when it came in, all right? The Buddhists thought, “Let us start a new trick”. Buddha Himself used to eat meat, of all the persons. In the end, He ate some pig’s meat in somebody’s house, it is written down. There was something wrong in the pig’s meat. Because you know pig’s meat is bad for one reason. Why it is not allowed also. Because it causes very bad liver. All the parasites of the world live in the pig. All of badhas live in a pig. You see it is such a dirty animal [UNCLEAR]. Not the pigs that you eat here. But in any place, normally – in India, if you eat the pig’s meat, they eat faeces, everything. So, there is no parasite in the world which lives in the liver of the pig, I mean, the body. Is not such a forbidden thing. But it is, in a place.

Sahaja Yogini: It would really make common sense.

Shri Mataji: Common sense, yes.

Sahaja Yogini: That is what they were trying to preach.

Shri Mataji: Yes, yes common sense. Absolute truth she said. Is the common sense and is in the centre. You use your common sense. In a place where a India, I mean, you never eat a pig. There are pigs and pigs and pigs. But in India, you will never feel like eating even a cow. Because they are such sweet things.

You see, here the cows look like buffaloes. Yes, my granddaughter asked Me. She said, “Grandmother, how is it the buffaloes in this country are white?” Because she thought they were all buffaloes. Because Indian cows if you see, are very mild. Because in every home, there is a cow. Kept in the home. Now, from childhood the child sees the milk taken put from the cow and given to the child. It is like a mother. Now you don’t feel like killing your mother. Is a simple thing, you know. Is very much a common sense.

But you cannot make a dogma out of it. They made a dogma out of it, arbitrarily. They made a dogma out of everything and they created problems. So when the Buddhists came, they thought, “Let us do something nice”. Because the Hindus were killing and all that doing – they were sacrificing animals. Just to take out the badhas and bad spirits. These are sensible things that have to be done. You know, if it a very big badha, you have to cut a big buffalo. You put the badha into the buffalo and cut it down. Is good. Is correct. But only for a person who is a Realised soul. Now how many there are?

And to kill this Mahishasura, there was a big buffalo. Who later on came as a big rakshasa. Now he is again born in India. He is there. He looks like a buffalo. And he calls himself a big guru. Just like a buffalo he is. He is a big Mahishasura. And so to kill him, you have to kill the buffalo. But that is all right. So, this no violence, this is what is common sense. And religion is not nonsense. It is absolutely common sense. And your common sense comes to you from there only. All these abnormal things you are doing is not religion at all. You are going out of your way. So, this common sense, as she said, is the correct thing. Is the common sense of doing.The right thing was needed, “Evolve yourself”. And where did the ideas come in? From your unconscious. Was given to you. So, you just localise it and keep it.

Now for Muslims, to have four wives. Is absolutely common sense at that time. There were so many men killed in the wars. Very few were left out. So many women were there. And somebody had to look after them. So all right, marry them. No prostitution. Sanctify it. In India, there was a question like this, where there were very few women. In the South, we have got a portion of Kerala, where so many men were there and women were very less. Because something happened, an epidemic. So we had a polyandrous society. And it worked. But it was common sense. Was tried. Finished. But then you do not stick on to it. It would be like when you have war, you have rations. All right. The war is over, everything abundance, everything – still you are rationing. Why? The food is getting rotten there in the thing. We are rationing you know because in the war this happened.

Yesterday, I saw a Jew, looking so miserable and this, everything coming up. “And it is very wrong to kill people”. Now, this happened a very long time back. Now forget it. What are you talking in these modern times? It is all over. Hitler has gone away, war is over, everything. Now, what is the present-day problem? Let us face it as it is. He is still weeping about what is happened. Now, where is Hitler? He is killed, finished, everything is done. Now, what is the use of blaming Hitler and doing something today? Finish it off.

That is what common sense is. And common sense comes when you decide everything is – you sit on a chair, that will be better. So, this is what is common. So I would say, “Use your common sense”. So, when you say, “Use your common sense”, use your vibrations on deciding anything. So, when it came to food also – for you people, the best thing is, to see the vibrations. Now he has got the food. See. This he has brought with love. But he had been to horrible gurus. So there is something of them also, is there. His personality. But his love is there. He has brought it with love. His love is there. Now what I am doing, is to give it vibrations. By vibrations, we can excite it. Make it absolutely divine. Every part of it which will go in your stomach will create new dimensions of awareness. In your stomach. It will cure your liver if it is something.

But the same food could be, without vibrations would be nonsensical. You go to somebody’s house and you don’t feel like eating. Though the food may be very good, excellent – you don’t feel like eating. Why? You must ask. There are bad vibrations. The person has not cooked with love. He has not given with love. Or the man is not; there is something wrong with [UNCLEAR].

[Sahaja Yogi says something after responding to a phone call].

Shri Mataji: Impossible is coming?

Sahaja Yogi: I don’t think so.

Shri Mataji: Possibly. Possibly. So. Once it happened, I went to – I mean, it is a very common thing with Me, you will also see that, if you keep yourself alert, you can see. We went to somebody’s house and they had invited us to dinner. Very beautiful people to look at, very big house, very artistically done and everything. Nice three daughters, this and that – little, little girls. But as soon as I entered the house, I told My husband, “Better go back”. He said, “Why?”. “I must vomit, I am feeling like vomiting”. And before I could say anything more, I said, “Better take Me to the bathroom”. I vomited.

He said, “Now what’s wrong here?”. He knows My habits you see. “What’s wrong?”. I said, “Something terribly wrong here”. So I told the lady. I said, “I am sorry to go back home. I am not well”. So she could not bear a woman sitting and vomiting so she said, “All right. You better go”. So we came back and My husband was very angry with Me. “What is this? We were the chief guests of honour and everything”. What to do? I just couldn’t eat the food and I came over. And poor man, what could he do also, see? I vomited a lot of food also. I mean, the food I ate at My home, I vomited. I could not take it in because that was also touched by bad vibrations.

So he said, “What’s wrong? They are such nice people. Now You must tell Your stomach to behave itself”. But the stomach is religious you know. The stomach is religious. So I said, “All right. I will tell you after eight days what happened”.

After six-seven days, a little girl came to our house with My daughter. Very miserable-looking child. And she was about same as My daughter’s age. And I asked her; her mother was a teacher in a school. And her surname was the same as that gentleman’s surname. So, I asked her, “Do you know him”. She said, “He is my father”. “Yes, he is my father. And my grandfather educated him. He became a barrister. He gave away the property. And he drove away my mother and three of us”. He had three daughters from the first wife. “And my mother has no money now. And she is working as a school teacher”.

“And who is this one?”. “No, she got friendly with him in England. She is an Indian girl. He brought her here, he was carrying on with her, he used to beat my mother – all kinds of things”. So that woman’s you know and children’s crying and all that things were filled in that house. And I could feel it, in a way – so depressing. You see, when you are depressed, in a way, you don’t feel like eating, you feel like vomiting. It was so depressing. So I told him, “This is what kind of ..”.

If I, now we may have to go to parties or something. They may start a cabaret or something. Even the name of cabaret, I start. Then I say, “Baba I can’t just sit down over, please take Me to the bathroom”. Then I go to the bathroom and vomit. I try to sit but I cannot. After three-four vomits he also comes out. They force us to – you know, the trouble is, the stomach is religious. The religion is in the stomach. You can’t see a woman selling her body and eating your food at that time. Oh God, it is impossible.

So the stomach is religious. Which has the common sense. That teaches you. What is good. What is bad. So, for a Sahaja Yogi, it is important, that before you eat anything, give it your vibrations. And also you have to see what your body needs and what it gets. For example, you are a patient suffering from a liver problem. Then you should not have anything to do with things that spoils your liver. Just forget it for a while. Plus take things that have good vibrations or take things that are good for the liver. Your liver will be all right. You have to go, give it a three- dimensional effect. Then it works out.

First of all, on the right-hand side is all the elements in that. Now somebody is suffering from the throat. For example, our, say Pat. He has a throat problem. Is much better now but he has, he is sensitive. And then he goes and stands in the rain. “I am a Sahaja Yogi. Why should I care”. This is not common sense. This is not sensible. This is not wisdom. Wisdom is that you have got a throat problem. Protect yourself, also take Krishna’s name. And do certain exercises that are required for the throat and do them and get all right. Now, this is what it is.

Now the Hatha Yogis, they are doing all the time this and that. Why? What is wrong with you? Your stomach is all right, then why are you doing that exercise? You have to do this exercise here. Your heart is catching; you are doing this exercise? You see, they have no sense of proportion. There is something you have to do and there is something you don’t have to do. At a particular time. That is the thing. At this time if you are suffering from say, a heart attack and if you are doing that thing, “paschimatama” or something with the stomach; immediately I mean, you better prepare for a coffin and then do it. It is like that. It is sure and shot. I have seen so many yogis dying just like that. Just like that, they die. Or if they live, they are horrid. You just cannot face it. Very hot-tempered. Extremely hot-tempered, you know. And they are just like fire. Because they work on the right-hand side.

Sahaja Yogini: So how do you know what [UNCLEAR/thing] is for what?

Shri Mataji: Beg pardon?

Sahaja Yogini: How do you know then? What told you then, the alternative? Apart from you personally being up there? What good is [UNCLEAR]?

Shri Mataji: No, you see, your own chakras will tell you. You put your hands towards the photograph or even like this, you can see for yourself what is catching in you. You can feel it. That is why I have given you My hand photograph there. You see for yourself which is catching. And whatever is catching you correct it. And there are methods there how to correct it. So, this is what you do after Realisation. Before Realisation, you don’t do anything. You see, you understand the complete comprehensive thing. Then you find out what is the problem with you. You correct it.

Now the problem is with your mind, say for example. You are doing Hatha Yoga. Hatha Yoga does not mean at all, you see – actually Patanjali nobody reads. That is the problem. Somebody who ran away from real yoga has come down, brought only these physical ones and you are following that. Which is the wrong thing. There are six things you have to do together. And Patanjali Yoga is such a big thing! Six things. You do that under a guru under complete discipline and abstinence. Complete abstinence. Imagine.

But Sahaja Yoga is a different style. There are special ways of that. Is for you the householders, in the family life. Not these extremists. Nothing of the kind. It is for you who have lived a normal life – husband, wife, mother, father – they get it. None of these sanyasi babas will get it. Those who wear those dresses will never get it. They will have to change. Now you know why I say cut your hair a little bit. Don’t be an extraordinary thing. No. If you are extraordinary, then might be, some extraordinary thing will come, ESP – some extra sensitive personality will come and sit on you. We are normal persons, all right. Everybody has to be normal.

But you see, it helps sometimes to have a little beard, because going to the barber is too much expensive. It is all right. Have the beard. It is quite normal. It is nice to have the hair which makes you totally not [UNCLEAR], but you can keep them bare. You cut. Respect them. They should not be dishevelled. They should be well-kept. And you should be well-kept also.

If you come to Me, you will be surprised, all of you, at least once, you will get a massage on your head. At least, once you will get from Me, a nice massage on the head. See, your hair then should be done well. See, you should look [UNCLEAR]. This is also a self-destroying method. Before you sleep, as I told you, our Gus used to do that. See this Gus is the last word on this. Nobody could be better. So far, I have not met. If I meet somebody then I will give them this [UNCLEAR].

Now what he did? Listen to this; what he did. Hair all absolutely, never combed. And he never looked after his food. Never. He would eat anything, whatever he got. Wherever he slept. In his room, there was no heat, nothing. He was trying to say, sort of build-up himself. And, in the whole thing, he became a very sickly person. He could never bear Sahaja Yoga on himself. He was so sickly. I mean, the more I saw him, the more I wept. Which mother would like a child to starve? Actually, in Sahaja Yoga, fasting is not allowed. Fasting is not allowed at all. In Sahaja Yoga. Come along. If you are fasting then you cannot get Realisation. It is definite. Do you fast?

Sahaja Yogi: I don’t know.

Shri Mataji: Yes, I know you do.

Sahaja Yogi: [UNCLEAR/I don’t starve].

Shri Mataji: You must eat. So, you see, there was a very great Sahaja Yogi from Pune. And he developed trouble of prostate. Prostate. And in the prostate gland, is our Ganesha sitting down. In the prostate gland. He is in the prostate gland. “Now imagine!”, I thought. He is such a great worshipper of Shri Ganesha. And he is a very celibate person.

Come along, there is some space here. Come along. Come. Come in.

There is such a lot of respect for Shri Ganesha in his heart. He is such a celibate man. And why should he get into this problem of prostate gland? I could not understand. So, I told him, “All right. Take this chana” – that I give to you all. I always give you to eat. “Take this chana and eat”. So, other fellow looked at him. “Today is Sankasthi, the birth of Ganesha, he does not eat”. I said, “That is the reason. Today is the birth of Shri Ganesha. You must eat. Oh God, how much He eats. He eats ladoos, and He eats this; you have seen His stomach. He is like a child. On his day you are not eating, you are making Him feel small. You must eat with competition on this day. There must be a competition of eating on this day while you are starving. Who told you this?”. He said, “All the brahmins say”. I said, “Which is it? Where is it written? In what shastra it is written, bring it just now and show it to Me”. “These Brahmins. They are rakshasas”, I told him. They have told you the wrong things. Telling you not to eat on a day when it should be celebrated.

The other side is in England. When it is Christmas, drink. They don’t know. On Christmas day you should not drink at all to feel the joy. If you are drunk, how will you feel the joy of God? You miss the whole fun. It is just the opposite they do. Just the opposite.

So, this is what they were doing for food, and I told him, “Just now, you eat this. Take it from Me”. He ate. And you will be amazed. After eight days his prostrate was completely all right.

And every “sankashti” they starve, imagine – these mad people of India. Now another day is coming, the fourteenth day of now, after the – just before the Diwali day: Narakchaturdashi. That is the day one should not eat at all in the morning time. One should sleep the whole night. Because that is the day when Narakasura was killed. The greatest, one of the worst possible – I don’t know – what word should we say for a monster?

Sahaja Yogis: Devil, demon.

Shri Mataji: Demon. Demon of the last type was Narakasura. He could not be killed easily. And he was killed on that day. On the night. And to throw him in, the gates of the hell were opened out. See, that is such a day when everybody should sleep very well the whole night. And morning time they should sleep till eleven o clock. For example, last night was that way. You have to get up in the morning at eleven o clock. You all should have got up at ten or clock or eleven o clock.

[TAPE 4].

Shri Mataji: Terrible thing. Now, why are you putting these dead in the church? Is that the place of the dead? Put them in a separate place. All these complications, in every religion they are. Muslims also. You go to any place – you go to Taj Mahal; there will be a dead body there also. Any beautiful place you go to – I mean actually, surprisingly – all the beautiful places are nothing but graves.

Sahaja Yogi: Mother, when certain doors are opened by Your teachings, then will it be that these spirits will leave those places?

Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, that is what. They go away. But you see, you must keep yourself protected. And understand. Have wisdom. That don’t go near – what is the need for you to go near crematorium and all that? Have nothing to do. Why [UNCLEAR/mess it/necessary]? Why put your hands?

Sahaja Yogi: [UNCLEAR/space].

Shri Mataji: Move forward, move forward.

So why do you go near such places? You have nothing to do. You shouldn’t worry too much about the dead. You shouldn’t worry too much about the dead things. And you shouldn’t have anything to do with the dead. Is a simple thing. You see, that is not our area. That is on the left-hand side. That is the subconscious and the collective subconscious. Why should we worry about the dead? Dead are dead, finished, gone. Leave them alone.

But here in London, you will find at least fifteen hundred people, calling the dead. They are calling the dead. They call them on a planchette, they do all kinds of things, there are spiritual churches by Greeks. Horrible people. Why do you want to disturb them? Let them be alone. Let them go away. You will be surprised, even if you remember the dead – your parents and things like that, it has an effect on them. Then I have to tell you to tell your parent that, “You (parent) should take your birth again. And I am all right”. Then it works out. They have nothing to do with you now. You should say, “All right, you take your birth again. And I am all right”. This is how you must suggest. And if you go on indulging into them, the more you go an indulging into them, the worse it would be. Because you don’t know how to handle the situation on that side.

Now, what are the situations you get? You get sometimes, this “extrasensory perception (ESP)”. You think you are very great; somebody has come and told in your ears. But in India, if you – people know about it. They call it “karna pishacha”. “Karna” means ear and “pishacha” means a monster. A monster who comes and tells in your ear. Somebody is going to see you, you know that he is going to come inside. Then do not think you are great about it. No. If you are Realised, is a different point. Then you just get a feeling, vibrations inside. But if you are not Realised, and somebody comes and tells something in your ear, then you must know it is not good. That is ESP. And don’t try to have those ESPs around.

These ESPs are nothing but people who are dead, who are busybodies. I told you they are busybodies and they are trying to bring some information to you. So, from the collective subconscious, they come down and try to oblige you. Now if the more obligations you take from them, the worse it is.

Now suddenly somebody finds in their house, a Ganesha murti comes in – in India. There is one man who has got so many of them in India. Some have even got diamond ornaments on them. See, I have seen with My own eyes. And he came and told Me, that, “They have told me about You also, who You are. You are Hanumana’s mother, you are this, this mother..”. Because of the right-hand side, you know. They are coming from the right-hand side.

So, these are the statues, they are worshipped by some dead people. And they are somewhere, here, there – in the storehouses of their children, [UNCLEAR] thrown away, all that. Not bothered. Or some people are not even doing proper worship. So these dead souls are bringing them along and putting them. He even writes, you know, things. He says, “Somebody writes for me”. Even if you do not know Sanskrit, they will be writing in Sanskrit. They say verses in Sanskrit, you will be amazed.

There was a lady who came in My program, once, in the very beginning. And when she saw Me, “Huh, huh, huh…”, she started. I said, “What is this all going on, nonsense?”. She said, “The goddess has come into me”. ”The goddess has no other place but to come into you?”. But she went on and on, “Mother, I have come to see you, because you have come in person. I have heard You have come in person”. So the people got her out and they said she started speaking very good Sanskrit. 

And she was an ordinary maidservant. So people were surprised. How can a maidservant speak such a good Sanskrit language? Then she said all kinds of things about Me. She gave fifteen stanzas written by Markandeya in Sanskrit. Spoke on that. “This is what She is, this is what She is, this is what She is”, all described there. I said, “These dead people, these bhuts have to tell about Me; it is better that she goes away”. “Now will you please go away?”.

There was one man, an ambassador, who came to Me and he became a Sahaja Yogi. Of course, his Kundalini was a funny thing – would not rise. He said, “I am a Sahaja Yogi”. I said, “You get realisation, then you will be a Sahaja Yogi”. “No, no, I am a Sahaja Yogi”. I carried on with him. He started writing great poems in the Sanskrit language, which he knew nothing. He started writing great poems. Now I told the thing that was in him, “Now get away from him. There is already one lady who is writing poems; they have seen her. She is all time doing like this and writing great poems about Me. She is an ordinary housewife. Has never done anything like that. She is writing great poems”.

I [UNCLEAR/said], “Now will you please get out of her?”. They do not want to get out. So this man, I told him, “If you stop writing these poems, they will go away. Why do you write poems?”. He said, “No, I have become a genius”. I said, “Suddenly, how did you become a genius?”. He said, “Because I am a Sahaja Yogi”. I said, “I am Myself telling you that this is not your power. This is somebody else’s power. Why don’t you give it up?”. But he was feeling very great about himself. One day the thing left him.

Sahaja Yogi: Didn’t Sahaja Yogis come together to purge him [UNCLEAR]. How did Sahaja Yoga start?

Shri Mataji: What did he say?

Sahaja Yogi: They start with the purging of [UNCLEAR]. Sahaja?

Shri Mataji: No, it is a very old style. Sahaja, the whole thing is Sahaja. The whole evolution is Sahaja. You see, the whole thing is spontaneous. Sahaja means that, spontaneous. Born with you. It is all built into you. Like a seed. Has all the trees, map of it inside. Spontaneity. It has not started anywhere. It has started since the whole creation is…

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, yes, that is true, but its manifestation – wasn’t it of the brahmin, priest?

Shri Mataji: Yes, but this realisation business started in My lifetime, in My own lifetime, because I discovered, in My own lifetime, how to break the Sahasrara of human beings. My own evolution has happened. As you said that, it is the evolution of a deity itself. And then I started doing it.

Have you been with Rajneesh?

Sahaja Yogi: No.

Shri Mataji: No? Thank God.

So it was not the beginning or anything, but the culmination of it. The culmination. I actually saw the Sahasrara opening. Actually saw the pouring of it with My hand. I saw all that how [UNCLEAR/it is]. You see, that is why some people have an objection about other incarnations. Why didn’t they tell the whole thing? You see, up to the point you were, they could tell. What is the use of telling somebody if he does not understand? For example, Christ. Why didn’t He say ‘Kundalini’? Whom to tell – those fishermen? You see, the stage at which human beings are, you can tell.

Sahaja Yogi: He actually said, “There are many other things which I cannot tell you”.

Shri Mataji: He did say, He did say. So many things you know. If you read it you will see, so many things I said, He has already said it. But the things He did not say because – you know, it is a sad thing; He lived for only three, four years with those people. And they crucified Him. What a young age He died. He was of your age; He died. Think about it. It is a tremendous thing that happened. Very heart-wrenching. Horrible people. What about Muhammed Sahib? How they tortured Him, you have no idea. He had no place to live. He used to run from places to places with His wife and children. His daughter. They tortured them. That was not the time.

Today they are not going to crucify Me. I know that. They cannot crucify Me. At most, they are going to say, “You cannot cure a person because You are not a doctor”. But they cannot crucify Me. So, the awareness is different. At a different awareness always it is worked out.

Now Krishna, what He did – should we change the topic? If you would like, I would like to tell you about Krishna’s Sahaja style. If you like to hear, that will be sweeter. Rather than talking about this subconscious. Or want to have something – questions on subconscious style?

Sahaja Yogi: No. Just that, yesterday was the only time I forgot to open your lemons. Woke up in the middle of the night feeling a bit crazy. So, I opened the lemons and went back to sleep. Somewhere in the middle of the night. It is the first night I did not do it, no?

Shri Mataji: Yesterday was a horrible time, is it? So! Now he asked Me Sahaja style. I will tell you about Krishna’s Sahaja style. Tune yourself. Tune yourself with it. Then you will understand Krishna’s Sahaja style. Such a Sahaja system He used. This, all His plays with gopis was Sahaja. What He did? You see, “rasa”. Rasa means holding the hands together. Used to hold the hands. All right? “Ra” is energy, “sa” means with. He used to hold energy. Their energy through – who was “Ra”?; Radha was the energy sustainer. And He used to hold their hands. And the energy used to [UNCLEAR] rasa. Is the rasa. Now, what did He do? His Sahaja style was – of course, it was told to Me by – I sort of knew it, but sort of it was retold to Me by someone. I said, “Boghdan, you tell Me your experiences”.

Like that, when I went to America, there was one Mr Lord who was an engineer. And when he got into realisation, he saw some of his past. Very strong man. I must say, one of the strongest Sahaja Yogis we have in America. A very strong person. And he saw himself being with Krishna. And he said, “What did I see Mataji? I was realising. When the Kundalini came up to this point, a light came and in that, what did I see? It was that we were small children playing. And there was a very bright, very illuminous child playing with us”. And what He does, you see. He saw. And he saw that all the children were playing. And they climbed upon each other like a pyramid. And broke a little, matka is it, pot. Earthern pot. In which some butter and some this thing was kept – butter and some…

Sahaja Yogini: Dahi?

Shri Mataji: Butter and some dahi. Some curd was kept you see. So they broke. Climbed on top and He broke. And the thing fell down. And everybody got filled with that. Now this man had never known Krishna, he had never known anything. He was an engineer and about fifty-five or so age of man. And he doesn’t know anyone. And it all fell down and [UNCLEAR]. Then an elderly lady came, you see, Yashoda. She came in and she said, “What? You have broken this? I will tie them together”. “And she tied us. You see, she tied us with a thing like this, a sari”.

And, what he says there is the Sahaja. He said, “We found that our solar system was excited. And everybody was getting, sort of, their solar system excited”. Because it was tied to the solar system of Krishna and children of the same age, the same age group were tied together. So, the awakening at the solar system started; see the Sahaja style. And he also saw Me later. Which he described in a very, very correct manner. Forget that. But this is Sahaja.

Now what Krishna did was, that Radha was the energy Herself. She used to go on the river Yamuna; put Her feet in that. Now you have seen when I put My feet in the water, it gets vibrated. It gets so vibrated that water can cure. All kinds of skin diseases, all kinds of stomach diseases can be cured – it is a wonderful thing. That is the river Ganges. It is more the river Ganges. Now, She used to put Her feet in the river Yamuna. Now, these gopis used to come and fill the water and walk with that. So, the vibrated water was on the head here. So, He used to break it. See. Break it with a stone. And that vibrated water would flow on their Kundalini at the time. Vibrating the Kundalini, awakening. This was His system.

This was; He used play rasa. In that Radha used to give (Shri Mataji claps in rhythm) [UNCLEAR]. This is the pulsation, “spandana” as they call it, pulsation. Of that force. And She was keeping the time. And She was also holding it too sometimes, in Her leg. (Shri Mataji is probably tapping Her foot – a sound like a thumping beat), She was giving it. This is the heartbeat – of that force. And it used to vibrate, to awaken them. Because at that time, they were not Sahaja Yogis like this, learned. Some engineers, some this, very learned, [UNCLEAR], but were very ordinary, simple people living in Gokul and Vrindavan. So, that is how they played. And in that playing, they used to touch.

Now here I call you, I call Cooly, “Now come along, put My hand here” – nobody would allow that kind of a thing. So what they used to take – a little kumkum and put it to Krishna. But they were so sensitive that they knew Krishna was great. Because Krishna showed His powers in His very, very early ages. At a very early age, Krishna killed Kalia. They saw Him killing two big rakshasas. When He killed them, they were actually in a tree. And when both the trees fell down, they came in their true state. He killed the Putana rakshasini. And all that they saw, with their own eyes. And ultimately He killed Kamsa. So He had the power to kill – “hanana”. Even today He kills. [UNCLEAR]. That is how He kills. [UNCLEAR] chakra. That is His style. If you are suffering from throat trouble, you have to do like that. Ha!

So, this is what the thing is. So, you cannot say Sahaja was not there. That time Sahaja was there. Kabira. If you read Kabira, if you see him, see what he has to say. There is musical; we have got some bhajans or hymns that Kabira has written. He has said about Ida, Pingala, Sushumna, everything. And he talks about collective consciousness. And he talks about, also about vibrations. He talks all about them. Kabira is the same as Khalil Gibran. If you read Khalil Gibran, he is the same. If you read Zen you will understand. Zen is nothing but all Sahaja. Kahlil Gibran is all Sahaja. Rama was all Sahaja. Everything. His going to the jungles, He was sent to the jungles, the whole drama was played because bare feet Radha, Rama and Sita had to walk to vibrate the whole country. Christ was complete Sahaja; nothing else but Sahaja. You test Him, in everything He was nothing but Sahaja. You see the system of Sahaja means, “saha” means with and “ja” means born with you. The spontaneity that is within you works out.

But at this time, the culmination point is there – on the Sahasrara. Where your Sahasrara is broken and you get your Realisation. And bhaktas and all promises got together. And the complete. And even you people. For example, I would say the Sahaja Yogis who have been with Me for the last four years know much more than you people. Much, much more than you know. They are much more sensitive. Stand much more than you. They understand much more that you do. You will also know. And will be, after some time knowing much more. Like the awareness you see. Will be given to you so much – as much as you can grasp it. Even telling it is too much sometimes.

Yesterday when I was talking – I was thinking, some people it was going on the head. They were like this. Something, it was going from the sides. They were like this. And some of them were taken out from their clouds. They were blasted. And some of them felt it so much that they went away. And some of them, they did grasp something. They felt there was something. Different. New. That, if religion is one, it has to be integrated. It is like one tree coming up. One tree has many branches, had to be that way. Two flowers here, two flowers there. All flowers belong to the same tree. And the people have plucked them out – “this is my flower, this is your flower” – and the flowers are dead. It is one living tree having many flowers, at a different time. And their integration is to be understood through Sahaja only, means through vibrations, through Chaitanya.

Now Markandeya Swami lived so many years back. He was Sahaja. If you read him, I mean, we sing him here. Markandeya we have to sing. If you have to understand, you have to sing. Markandeya, because He excites My chakras so much, the vibrations increase much more when you sing him. And Shankacharya was the greatest Sahaja. The real one – Adi Shankaracharya was the greatest Sahaja. Muhammad was the greatest Sahaja. All of them. Hazrat Ali was a great Sahaja. All of them. Buddha and Mahavira. All were Sahajas.

With Buddha, the thing happened, He went round and round and round and round and came back [UNCLEAR/to Me]. And He thought all going round [UNCLEAR]. Because He was a human being who became really divine. An incarnation. And I would say this was the greatest. For Christ, because He was an incarnation. But He was a human being who became an incarnation [UNCLEAR]. But what are these Buddhists, horrible people, doing here? The worst possible people of [UNCLEAR] are Buddhists. They have no sense of any kind. Beggars. And using their sex and all those things, in the name of God.

Now you people have to decide. If you have to go further and further, first of all, establish yourself in the Truth. No falsehood about this. Be truthful to yourself. First of all, you have to be truthful to yourself. Am I honest with myself? You have problems, I know. You have problems of centres because certain mistakes have been committed. All right. We will correct it. But first of all, be truthful with yourself. Because if you are really the greatest seekers, then you will find it because you have asked for it. For many years, for thousands of years, you have been seeking. And today you are sitting in London as ordinary people.

Sometimes My husband says to Me, “What are you doing?”. I say, “I am doing the service of the saints”. He says, “Where are the saints? I can’t see them”. I said, “In modern times they are wearing suits and boots and jeans. You can’t see them. They are all saints”. Because those who are seeking are the saints. And those who are realised are the pirs, are the Brahmins, are the enlightened ones. Are the Christians. Are the baptised. Something like, at the time of Christ – in a hut, sitting like this He is talking. Horrible times. Worst possible things happened. They all passed through all that.

You are all going to be tomorrow citizens of a new world. And you have to give them. The time has come. Because the time has come it has worked out. There was one flower in the beginning. There were five flowers. Now it is the blossom time. You have started blossoming. At the blossom time, how do they mature? Thousands and thousands of flowers into fruits. And you are going to mature.

I was waiting for a certain time. Because you were to be convinced that all nonsensical things were to be given up. This is falsehood. This is not God. This is not what we are seeking. Needed some time to decide. But you cannot decide fully with this brain, I can tell you. Only you can rationalise it and come to some conclusions. But you have to experience. You have to become that. That is what you have to ask for. You see, even a person who is very ignorant on the education side could be a great Sahaja Yogi. We have people like that.

You know, there is a man from a village who comes to us. He doesn’t even know how to write. He is a very, very great Sahaja Yogi. These people have met him. We went to his house, to his village. And you know, he had two to three hundred people gathered very devotionally. Arranged for us the program. And such Sahaja Yogis were there. And he comes to the programs every time, from that distance. And every time he comes to the program, he will bring a flower, a garland for Me. So, I felt a little bad. I said, “Everything time you have to spend so much money. Must you come all this way?”. He says, “Mother, you have solved my money problem”. I said, “How?”. He said, “You don’t know?”. I said, “ I don’t know”. He said, “I will tell you. We had one fam where we used to work. But it used to yield very little to us because it was a small farm. And part of it was absolutely useless. We never used to do any farming in that area. And one day a man came to me after I got my Realisation about seven, eight days later. And he said, ‘This part of your land, we would like to take the clay from here? It is very good for making bricks’.  And he is giving me enormous money. And with all that, if I bring one garland for you, why should you worry”.

So, you improve materially in Sahaja Yoga, you see because your Laxmi chakra is improved. Laxmi gives you strength or “vaibhava” as the wealth. Lakshmi is a Goddess which has got the form of a lady. She is a mother. She is a mother. And a true mother will give – every bit of her material possession and every bit of her emotional possession to her child, you see. There is nothing in this world she will not give for her child. Nothing more important than her child is, so she is a mother; Lakshmi. Then She is also having in one hand, another like this – see Lakshmi? She gives you “abhaya”, She gives you reassurance – abhaya. And this which She gives.

So the man who is supposed to be rich must have must people whom he has given some assurances. To whom they are “ashritas”. Dependents. He must have some people who are dependent on him otherwise he is not a “Lakshmipati”, but he is just a man who has money. Is a wretched thing. Is hopeless. This one. This one. He should be generous. All the time flowing. With this hand is flowing. Lakshmi.

Now, She has four hands. On one hand, in these two hands, She has got a pink coloured lotus. Both the hands, two lotuses. Pink is a sign of love, of warmth. And the lotus is very cosy. She is the cosiest. A person who has money – in their house if you go, it should not be like a hospital. Everything painted out, all starched. Down you don’t know where to look, what to do – so nervous about the whole thing. It should be cosy, a cosy thing. Like the lotus. Is very cosy. Is very beautiful also. It is very beautiful and inside is placed, a nice bed. To rest. And it closes down in the night. And the fragrance of the beautiful pink lotus spreads all over. So, a man who has money should have a house like that. He should be always receptive. His house should be full of cosiness. If a man who is rich is miserly, he is not a rich person. He is not. In any way. He is not enriched at all because he is a miser. A man who is rich should have his heart open so that he receives anybody who comes in. Even a “bhunga” is a; what do you say to a bhunga in English?

Sahaja Yogini: Bee.

Shri Mataji: And the black? Black bee. Even the black bee comes in the lotus and makes it sleep on its bed. So, that is the sort of a rich man he should be. He should be beautiful and he should have “Shri Shobha” means he should have a glow about it. And he should be fragrant. These are the signs of Lakshmi. And of all the things, She Herself stands on a lotus. Means such a man should be so light. While if you see the rich people, Oh God! You don’t know how to face them. Immediately you will know they are rich. They will show off they are rich. They will bore into you. They will have such a weight.

But Lakshmi is a light one. She mixes up anyone, She goes anywhere, She throws. That is what is a Lakshmipati. That is why it is vaibhava. It is not money. It is not wealth. It is much more than that. So, that is what is a Lakshmi. And when She is awakened, everything comes to you. That means whatever money you get, you get dynamic with it, beautiful things – out of little money, lots of things are done.

There are people who will cook with small little things, and when you eat it, “Ah, it is so nice, so nice”. And you go to a big place and they have thrown a big dinner and a banquet. Whatever food, we could not even eat anything. Better go and eat something at home. It [UNCLEAR] with that kind of a thing. It is that.

So Laksh,mi also rises. You also get money; you get materially better when you are a Sahaja Yogi. Your problems get solved. Many problems get solved. You become very artistic. Your creativity increases. So all happens because this power is within you. Because of Swadishthana chakra. This I will tell you some time now – seven chakras; what happens when they are awakened. Outside. Apart from inside.

We had one disciple, Modi. He came to Me when he had no job. In India, if you have no job, it is a terrible thing to happen. He had a wife and two kids. And he came to Me and he got his realisation. Of course, he suddenly became very dynamic. He felt very much better. So I told him “Why don’t you decorate a ship?”. He said, “Ship? Decorate it? I have never seen wood; I don’t know what is wood and what is good”. I said, “You see the vibrations and do it”. He did it. Now he has a very good job.

You develop new dimensions into anything. Because it is your own power which manifests. You know there is a power. Everybody says, “There is a power that is within you, that is within you, that is within you”. Where is it? Just you get it, “Now it is here”. It is flowing. And not only that it enlightens you, but it enlightens others also. This is the thing. It was the property of very few once upon a time. But historically, it should have been the property of many. Otherwise, people would not have been convinced. That is what happened. Gregoire had a very nice point about it. He said, “In the East, there were very few people who found it out. Christ found it or something. Then what happened with other people? They said, ‘We cannot find it’, so negate it”. They started negating it. They went on to the other side of it. So, they developed a collective awareness of society, of political awareness and this and that. They developed. But the main point was missing. So it had to combine. So this awakening had to come to the masses. So this en masse revelation is there. Had to. Historically. It is beautiful.

This disciple of Mine, if you read his book you will know how a person can become absolutely dynamic. He was paranoid when he came to Me. Paranoid. You see, his head was going as if two big horns were coming out of his head. When he first saw Me, (Shri Mataji intones non-stop talk), I said, “What is he talking. God alone knows. Now how am I to know what he is talking”. I said, “Don’t talk to Me”. I can’t hear such people. He was going (Shri Mataji intones again). My husband also looked at him, “Now is this madman you have got in the house?” He was really like a madcap. And he improved so much. And now he has written a book you see [UNCLEAR]. And in such a short time. Now he is writing another book. You all must read his book. It is wonderful.

Sahaja Yogi: [Unclear].

Shri Mataji: Ah? And Gavin is going to write another. She is going to write another. She is going to write about all these sadhus, babas and these gurus and all these people she has met. And all the occultism she has faced. And she knows that. Because it is an inside story. Because her husband did all that. So she is going to write all that. Any questions?

You came today? For the first time? Has he come for the first time?

Attendee: Yes.

Shri Mataji: This one with the blue. First time?

Attendee: Yes.

Shri Mataji: All right, do come here. Come along. Please come. May God bless you. Sit down. Sit down.

Now see, when I attend to a person, you should know that person has a problem. That is why I am more attentive to that person. And those who have no problems, I do not attend to them because they are all right. So, you should not feel hurt I am not attending.

For example, Miriam, I do not attend to her at all. She is a born Realised. So, I don’t attend to her. And I use her the most, you see. So, you must know you are like that. Those who need repairs are attended to. This is a repairing shop, to begin with.

Now let us see. He has not been to Me before I know. Just see his vibrations. Come along.

So, you have to learn how to repair yourself, how to give Realisation, how to repair others. And how to enjoy yourself you must also know. But you have to go deep down into it. That is one thing I must tell you. Like you have to dig a well. You go to several places. But once you have found the water there, then you have to go deep down into it. Then again you will start digging other holes – you will have nothing but holes within. Go deep. You have to be deep. Tell your mind to go deep. Not to go into superficial areas. Your mind has been superficial in the sense that the depth was never felt. But when you felt the depth, remember it and catch hold of it. And go deeper and deeper into it. Because superficially if you exist, you cannot get much deeper.

Only those who are seeking the depths of their own being can go far. Because we have Sahaja Yogis of different levels, I have seen. Some of them are very, very superficial. Extremely superficial. Even in India, there are so many who are superficial. What is the use?

[UNCLEAR/short conversation between Shri Mataji and the newcomer].

Shri Mataji: What is your name?

Newcomer: Antoni. Antoni.

Shri Mataji: Antoni? Now, you been to some guru or someone? Have you been to some guru? Someone? No one? You have never been to anyone? You have listened to somebody’s lectures? Never?

[Shri Mataji asks Sahaja Yogis to check the chakras].

Sahaja Yogi: Both Nabhis.

Shri Mataji: Both Nabhis? Where are your parents? Parents? Father, mother they are here? Your parents, where are they?

Sahaja Yogini: You speak what, Italian or English?

Newcomer: Italian.

Shri Mataji: Somebody Italian should tell him. Come along, come here, come here. He has not been to any guru or anything is it?

[Sahaja Yogi asks in Italian].

Newcomer: [UNCLEAR/taking drugs].

Shri Mataji: I was about to ask him. Nabhis, both. I was about to ask him that question. But I was a little worried about him. You see, both the Nabhis. Drugs. Drugs. Both the Nabhis. Drugs. I was about to say that. But I thought he will feel hurt. So, let him sit down there and take out for a while on the right-hand side. Go and they will tell you what is to be done. All right? Now, what about you? Are you all right?

Sahaja Yogi: I don’t know.

Shri Mataji: What about your friend? Come along.

Sahaja Yogi: Which hand should we put out the window? Which hand out the window?

Shri Mataji: Just now for the right, you put towards Me and left you get out.

Now all of you can tell him. Now see for yourself. Which finger is burning. You put yourself in a bandhan. You give a bandhan to your aura. He is not yet realised; you have to work on him still. A little bit on him. But others are. Now. Seven times.

Now you just tell Me. What is the thing [UNCLEAR/working out] on her? Tell Me, all of you.

[UNCLEAR/Sahaja Yogis are checking and clearing].

What else? She is saying the same, Swadishthana. This is a serious problem. It is here. Now you see, you put these thumbs in your ears. It will be better. Let us see.

Are you all set-up? Much more relaxed. Are you? Now tell Me, which one is catching? It could be easy to know yourself.

Now, even better. Now which one is catching, see first. No, they will tell.

Sahaja Yogis: The whole right hand. The Nabhi. Right Nabhi. Right Agyna. Right [UNCLEAR]. Right over there.

Shri Mataji: All right. So let us sit down with the right hand first and [UNCLEAR]. Can you take out your socks also?

Sahaja Yogi: Which hand did you say was to be outside?

Shri Mataji: Right hand towards Me, the left hand outside. The one which is bad has to be towards Me. Left outside. Is better. Is it?

Sahaja Yogi: He was getting a cool breeze last night.

Shri Mataji: He is. He actually got Realisation. You see, I never saw him last night. I saw him the previous day. Did I see you last night again?

Newcomer: No. I was there.

Shri Mataji: I did not see you. That is why I thought that; but still.

Now, what about your father? Don’t write to him?

Newcomer: Sometimes.

Shri Mataji: Very unhappy about him?

You are married?

Turn around. Turn around. Come along.

A little bit here on the right-hand side. You can feel it also.

All right. Better now?

Is he better now? What is your name? You never told Me.

Another newcomer: Sheela.

Shri Mataji: Sheela.

[BREAK/UNCLEAR comment by someone].

Shri Mataji: You will be. Absolutely. You are to be absolutely cleansed and made into beautiful swans in the lake of God’s [UNCLEAR/realm].

Feeling better? Now, what is your name? You never told Me.

Newcomer: Alfred. Alfred.

Shri Mataji: Alfred? Is all right. Kumar? The right side is better? Everything.

Are you feeling vibrations?

Newcomer: A little.

Shri Mataji: Are you feeling, both the hands? Vishuddhi is good.

Sahaja Yogis: No.

Sahaja Yogi: Taking the Left Vishuddhi.

Shri Mataji: Left?

Other Sahaja Yogis: Right.

Shri Mataji: Both sides? I was just wondering – an Englishman having a good Vishuddhi, I have not met.

[UNCLEAR/Sahaja Yogi mentions the name of a boy and everyone laughs].

Sahaja Yogi: He is only a couple of years old.

Shri Mataji: Don’t call him an Englishman. He is beyond. He is a born Realised. Born Realised don’t belong to any nation. No, because [UNCLEAR/properly] may be the reason. Let us see now.

(A little loudly): For all the English people, get out of this Vishuddhi problem. See, never to say a harsh word to anyone. That is the best thing. Never to say you see. Never to be in the quarrelling style is the best way. The way we answer back, and we think, “What is wrong?” Is not [UNCLEAR] you see, because you people have been very, very powerful politically, once upon a time. Then on top of that, you smoke. And all over the places, there is smoke. And the Vishuddhi gets [UNCLEAR/blocked].

[End of tape 4 and end of workshop recording].