The First Three Chakras Or How To Approach Sahaja Yoga Caxton Hall, London (England), 20-11-1978

…and that gives us our evolutionary ascent.

This central force, as I have shown you here, is first in the residual form, kept in the triangular bone and is called as Kundalini. The word ‘Kundalini’, in the Sanskrit language, means – ‘Kundal’ means ‘the coil’; it means ‘coil’. Kundalini – when it is a feminine of Kundal – ‘Kundal’ means ‘a coil’ like the,  you see, you can say, ‘the curl’ or ‘a coil’. When the feminine gender is used, it is called as Kundalini.

Now this is the residual force, which has made the zygote, as you call it, or you can say the embryo and the residual of it settles down there. It is much more than that, see – I’m not going into details about it how this force, which force it is – it is a subconscious state, you can say. That is all your subconscious – all your lives – even from amoeba to this stage. Whatever you have been doing, whatever have been your search,  whatever lives you have had, whatever genes you have passed through, like, we can say, if you were, say, a lion,  it is all recorded. Then also it records all that has been happening in this present life also.

Through this, through this area, in the subconscious area, it passes and is recorded here and kept everything recorded: whatever you are taking and experiencing and putting to your subconscious. That subconscious area is all being recorded in that micro, you can say, a micro-tape. And all that is, though recorded, has also got the power to think, coordinate, to organise and to use whenever it is required.

I mean, we cannot think of such a record  or a record player, or we can say, a tape recorder, which works out all these things together. It is fantastic to believe that there could be such a power.  But there is! 

I mean, even if you see our eyes, they are fantastic things – I mean, we take them for granted, absolutely take them  for granted. We cannot make even one eye with all of our scientific knowledge and everything, we cannot create  one living human eye. Let us accept it. So, every one of us has got two nice eyes, which are such complicated things and the way they react and work out, there must be some sort of a power behind it, some sort of an organization, some sort of a complete co-related, you can say, a big institution, which is absolutely  integrated and is related to something great that is managing these eyes! 

After all, when supposing, I come to London suddenly from some Indian forest.  Here I come and  find, “Oh, there’s a very nice train going”, then I find a very nice tube station and I find, I’m moving from places to places, and then there are all kinds of [unclear, airy]  places for Me. Then naturally, I’m confused that, who’s doing all this after all, how is it that I reach here, and I find all these things available for  Me? So, there has to be somebody behind it!  But now, you may call it anything – you may call it Nature, God, this, that, sort of [unclear, Shah’s is doing it]? You can call Him anything, but there is some power that is organizing all this in the undercurrent powers, about which we should know.

Now, which is the way we can know this, is the point, you see. Either by looking at the [unclear, films] and looking at the, say, houses or looking at the very,- [unclear, look at]  factories and things, by going out, meeting people, can you find out, do you think? I mean, it’s a very simple housewife’s search.

Supposing, you want to find out, say, from where to get her knife [unclear].  We don’t go to a newspaper to find it out. You ask another housewife about it, that, “Where do you get this knife [unclear]  like that,  I would like to know, from where …?”

In the same way, if you have to find out, what are these undercurrents, we have to approach people, who have known something about it, who show results of it in their own lives, those who have talked about it, and when we go to them  and try to find out, we find they also tally with [unclear].  They also talk [about] the same things as we are talking [about], and these are the undercurrents within us.

Now, some of the people, who have talked about these chakras and about these Kundalini rising and all these things that are shown here, have been looking at it and seeing it – no doubt about it. You have heard about so many people like, you can say, the … (Shri Mataji asks somebody)  What is the name of that lady who founded the organization …? 

Yogi: Annie Besant. 

Shri Mataji: Annie Besant! Annie Besant, [unclear]. She has written a lot about it. I mean, for you, English people, it would be a great thing to know that she has written it. But she just saw it. You see, she just saw the thing.  Like I see you,  she saw these things inside her – that means, she was not there. If you are there, you do not see it. She saw these things here.

Now, for example, this is the chakra she sees  – alright? Normally, they just see this  chakra , you see. Most  they can  see this chakra or this chakra. Now, if they are  seeing it, now you are seeing it, that means you are not inside them.  But they have seen it, no doubt, they have seen it, but they are not there!  And they have not given the method [of] how to be inside that.

From outside, you can see Caxton Hall, but you are not inside; This is a very important point to know – that to go inside must be another way. But from outside, if you see anything,  – say this chakra you see from outside, you may be going round and round and round this  and that’s how you are seeing that chakra, and that’s why, these people did see, no doubt about it. They were not sort of telling you lies or giving you some sort of a false idea about it.  But definitely, what they were describing, is not what we are seeing.

We want to be in it, we want to be that. That’s why, some people say that, “Why didn’t  Christ  describe these chakras?” I’ve heard people asking Me such questions also. And none of the Sahaja Yogis will also see these chakras at all, to begin with.  But they will just feel, sometimes the Kundalini rising, they may see in other people the rising of the Kundalini through this, they can see also the pulsation here, they can feel it with stethoscope,  when it opens it becomes absolutely an abstract sort of a force which you cannot see, but you start feeling the Collective Consciousness – that means, you become that.

Now you don’t see your eyes, with which you see, but you have eyes, you know that. So, the seeing of it has given us some idea that there is something beyond. They have helped us this way, you can say that, “Alright, they have seen something,” but they have gone by a wrong method by which they could only see but could not enter in. 

There has to be some force here which has to give us our evolutionary jump. We have evolved from amoeba to this stage, no doubt, and there has to be something that has done this job;  there is some force within us which has done this work. If we understand this much, that, there is some purpose in evolution because certain things were discarded also. For example, big animals like mammoths and all those, have been discarded. Out of them, only elephants remained. Then some new animals came up – some of them have been discarded. Then again, some were accepted. Some started growing further and further.

If there is no purpose of life in evolution, why should there be a growth of a man out of amoeba? This  is the first question you should ask for someone,  which none of the scientists have ever tried to ask because they cannot answer it, perhaps. 

But should come to us as the first question: why are we human beings here sitting down?

But this question doesn’t come to us, normally, because we take it for granted and that is the trick of the Nature. That is the trick of Nature, what we call as Maya in [the] Sanskrit language, that you accept the trick of the Nature.

Now, every one of us knows that we are going to die – which is the greatest trick of the Nature. Once, you see, [unclear, Brighu?]  was asked by his disciple, Shukra. He said, “Which is the greatest Maya of this world? He said, “The greatest Maya of this world is, that everyone knows he’s going to die [the] next moment, he may die [the] next moment. Nothing can be said about his death, but he doesn’t believe that he’s going to die – is the greatest illusion of this world.” In the same way, we take it for granted. It is the Nature’s skill, to us, that we take it for granted otherwise we would be all jumping on our heads all the time worried about our deaths, doing this, “Oh, tomorrow we have to die, tomorrow we have to evolve, what are we to do?”

This settling within us of this, of what you call ‘the shanti shakti‘, we have taken for granted is also a power given to us by Nature. And because of this, you see, we take for granted our being as it is: we use it and live for it.

But in certain things, we do not take it for granted, and there [is] where we have gone wrong. This  evolutionary force, which has to rise from here, has to go through this, and open out this, as the ultimate breakthrough for human beings.  It is unable to do that.  Why? The reason is, we have spoilt all these centres by our efforts, by self-destroying  agencies we have put against ourselves. Either we destroy others or we destroy ourselves. We cannot sit quietly. Both things, according to Me, are just the same, because if you are a part and parcel of  one whole being, then even a part  that is you, if it is destroyed, it’s a part destroyed in the whole. If you destroy other parts, then, of course, it is the destruction. But we only see the destruction of others, but not of our own – the way we are destroying ourselves.

So, we either move this way – left side or right side, as I call it, form a super-ego and ego all the time – either destroying others or destroying ourselves.

So, this force of sustenance, which has to rise and has to give us that breakthrough, is obstructed by our efforts, because we have no sense of judgment of it. I wouldn’t say that Nature has not given us that power – it has given us this. It has also given us punch.

You see, so many people have now denied [it] by saying, “No, shut up, we don’t believe in it. What’s wrong, what’s wrong?” You may try that, but you see that is self-destructive. 

You have a conscience, no doubt you do feel bad about things that you should not have done, which you did just because it was a fashion or because that was the effort needed. You see, this effort is born out of our ego. An egotistical  man cannot sit quietly. If you tell him to sit quietly, he’ll get up again. This is  Jack-in-the-box, you see. Just ask him to sit down, “Please for a while just sit down, just keep quiet”, so he will just jump in, “No, I must do something, I’m just wasting my time”,  you see.

And this kind of attitude that develops within us in the West – we should say, now, we’re facing the Western people, so I should talk about the West – in the West has really led to lots of inner destructions and poisons that we have got within ourselves.Actually, we are not warmongers  at all any more. We do not trouble others much, but we torture ourselves. This is what has come to today’s situation as it is, as I find the people over here.

Though you are the people, who do not support any wars or any cruelty outside, you are the people who are cruel to yourself – you are not kind to yourself. You don’t love  yourself, you have no respect for you, , you have no values about yourself, and you do not understand how important is this temple which you have not built – has been built from the time you were an amoeba, today you are a human being – the whole thing has been built-up, especially for this purpose that the light has to come within you, you have to be enlightened. This has been laid down nicely within you. Among all of you people, it is there, existing within.

So, these centres that we have, all of them, are – one centre is down below there, is the red one as I have shown here, is called as the Mooladhara Chakra. It means ‘the root of the support’ or you can say, ‘the support of the root’ you can say – ‘support of the root’. ‘Mooladhara, support of the root’. Which is the root? [The]  root is this one,  and it is a support of the root, and in scientific words, you cannot understand what is the root of the person or personality. You cannot say which is the root, what are your roots?  I mean, you cannot say that, “I came from England” and “I came from West Indies” – that’s not the thing. What are your roots? From where have you come, and where have you to go? This is the support of that root which is going to manifest your personality. And this support [is] extremely simple to understand, this is innocence – is the innocence. Innocence has been given to us by Nature. We may lose it, but it is there and this is the sign where it exists.

Innocence is in the animals; it is in all the matter. The matter is innocent. It neither attacks you nor it attacks itself – is innocent. You can use it whichever way you like, but the matter is absolutely  innocent. In this  way, we can understand that it is, we can say,  it is mute,  – it should have  no thinking about it, so it is innocent. You are the only people, human beings, [who] have got the power either to be innocent or to be destroying that innocence within you. 

So, this is the  root. This is the root, and the root has got the support that is innocence. So, your roots have got the support, the feeding  of the root is innocence. Or you can say, the roots are embedded in the innocence itself. The whole creation was created, after innocence was generated, not before that.  So, innocence is such a big blessing and that is the innocence. Now, in scientific terminology, you cannot talk of innocence. Innocence is a part of human beings you all know. In the children, you find the innocence very clearly [in] how they express their innocence.

Now the new theory, – I mean, I was amazed when I came in this country, to hear that there are people who believe that children are the most ego-oriented, extremely possessive and they are very dominating creatures. I was shocked at this; I mean, this theory just doesn’t tally with ours, you see. So, I said, “Now what these scientists have found out, God alone knows,” but by God’s Grace now they have found out it was a wrong thing.

What happened that they found, a child, if you put before a child a ball, say example, hanging before him and the child tries to grab the ball – that’s what they detected from the movements of the child’s hands but later on, when they watched the child later on, you see, they found that it is not so because you can see in life how children are generous, so they couldn’t understand, why this in the beginning children behave in this manner? 

Then they found out that, if you have a slow-motion picture, absolutely a slow-motion picture, then you find, that the small children are moving their hands just like toys, because they have got a flying capacity, and they are trying to try that flying trick that they know, and they just do flying – it’s not the grabbing but is the flying;  their hands move like this, just like flying , with the impulse that they see something, they start flying.

Now just imagine, what a big mistake it was, to treat your children on these bases that they are very ego-oriented, that they are very possessive.Now, such mistakes are committed and something terrible all the people have done – one of them has been done to this centre also. Because when you start finding out things through effort, you can just break your nose, can just clip off your ears – anything can happen because you are moving into [the] dark.

So first we must ask for enlightenment, we must ask for the light to see what are we doing. This is the first thing that we have to ask for. If there is no light, whatever you are doing or not doing, you do not know what you are doing.

This is a jarring example. I mean, imagine all the children of the world, get condemned by this great theory that came out of somebody’s brains, that they are trying to grab everything. They have no sense of possession, they have no sense of, you see, they do not understand your economic things, and they do not understand how much an antique costs and how much does that cost. How can they do all these things?But even such a horrible theory was accepted, and you know the result of it – that the way you have been treating our children, has been terrible.But now, when one theory has been accepted by which people have suffered, I don’t know how much time it will take because another theory  comes up to be kind to these children of ours.

In the same way, the theories about this centre  have been very, very, absolutely so damaging, so damaging that,  – you see, a  person like Me, I get a real fear to think about it.

This center, is a very important center because it is your, – the support of your root, it is the support of your root and on this center, people have written books after books by saying, that this is the center which controls the sex, and they got this wonderful idea that this center because it is there, and it is at the support and because it controls the sex, and because they have seen it there – also they have seen the deity there sits, which has got a trunk like an elephant, so they have called it that the Kundalini itself, the residual force itself sits there.

Now, this is one of the greatest and the gravest mistakes that these tantrikas have done to all the seekers of the world!  Sex is important, is sacred, something great, human-beings must have it, they have to have children, if they have to have development of [unclear, their being]. There’s nothing wrong in sex, and sex has to be properly appreciated, and is to be respected in  its proper way, and it’s not to be vulgar, but it has to be innocent sex which should be spontaneous and not deliberate by thinking about it  having pornography.

The more these people do pornography and all that, the more they will become impotent because it is potent only under circumstances where it is allowed to be spontaneous – it is a very great danger all of you are facing, when you do so much about it. Allow it to work out more spontaneously in the sacred way. It is the most beautiful thing to be enjoyed by all of you – God has given you that but the way we have ruined it now, you have no idea how most we have lost that, how much the whole thing is just the opposite of it. I mean, it’s joy giving – it will never give you joy but frustration. 

So, first of all I must tell you, that there is nothing wrong in sex.  But!  When you start thinking that sex can give you  Realization, or that the Kundalini is sitting at the sex point, that you have to do sex for that, that is the end of everything!  That is Hell, I tell you!  We have had some disciples here, you have seen, then some people came to us, and they told, –  they went to some lama, who did sex into them! 

Imagine Buddha’s disciples doing like this, I mean, I cannot imagine things like that. Even Christians, how can they believe a thing like that, that you can achieve  Realization through sex? Sex energy, I don’t know what you call that, you see? See after another blind person was Mr. Freud, absolutely blind; He didn’t know much about the whole, whole being, he knew just a part of it, he knew a very little part of it, he did not know much of it. He had ideas about these things from his own life, from his own character, the way he was biased about things and the foremost thing, he played on our weakness. You see, somebody plays on our weaknesses, tries to be nice to us, we must understand he’s our weakest end.   If he plays on our strength, he’s our friend, and that’s how he did it and that’s how he completely brainwashed people over here, to say that, “Sex activity should be, there should be no inhibition, there should be liberation, this and this.”

What is this liberation? – Is enslavement of sex morning till evening?  Is it liberation by any chance? You are liberated when you can master it!  But when you are enslaved  of it, you cannot even control your eyes for two minutes, what sort of a liberation it is?

And that’s why we have to understand, fully well, that sex has to be respected, has to be sacred and is private!   Even today, when we call it a liberated society! 

Still, still whatever you may try, you see, you cannot create a complete vacuum I can see. Even now, I do not find people doing sex on the streets. Still, I have seen, you see, many old people having young girls around and all that; on the street, I don’t see!  Still, they feel shy. [unclear, They just feel shyness to do that].  Still then, whatever you may try with your liberty or things like that, still a man feels hurt if his sister is raped. Still there are so many things, if you see that, you don’t like the way things are. There is absolutely a gift to all of us!  Even today when you are supposed to be so liberated, I have yet to come across a man and a woman, really if you talk to them personally, who are not jealous!

Why should you be jealous? You are not jealous if ten people are   eating food  together? Why are you jealous? If one woman tries to spoil another family or  one man spoils another woman’s (family) life, why should they be jealous? All these have been built within us and this is a very important point which we neglect.  Because of this, we have lost all the joy of life!  All the joy of life is lost completely!  Because sex is for giving you joy and not frustration! 

In this chakra there is a deity, who came as Christ on this Earth – He’s an embodiment of innocence, and He is the deity, which was created, first of all, as Shri Ganesha, as we call Him, who has a trunk of a, of an elephant. Now, there’s a story behind it also, why this has been given? But a simple thing is, that an animal, any animal, does not have these things closed as here,  – like the ego and super-ego, like the fontanel bone is not closed in the animals – means they remain innocent. Once this is closed here, then the innocence is lost, in the sense that you have given I-ness; You become Mr. Such and Such, you become Miss.  Such and Such and you become a different personality. This is not among animals at all.Only at the human stage, you are given the I-ness. Had  a reason for that also, this I-ness is given,  and that is why the child Ganesha has no ego. He’s directly connected with the Divine and whatever He works out, is only the work of the Divine. He is not at all putting His ego or super-ego in between; It’s a hollow personality. Is a hollow, we can say, a very hollow entity, or you can say a Deity which is being used to permeate innocence on this earth. And that was Christ.

I wonder, how many of us know really, the great nature of Christ. Morning till evening we say, “Oh, Christ,” this one will say, “Oh, Christ,” doing all sorts of nonsensical things, which should not be done in the presence of Christ,  we will do, and we think we are Christians.

To understand His nature, you have to master this centre. I will never say that you give up married life – not at all. You all should get married, must have families, must live a very normal family life, absolutely – that’s not the point, but there should be sacredness about this because the greatest Deity, is the greatest of all because He’s the principle of life, is the tatwamasi, as you call the tatwa,  is the principle of life, is innocence. And that is sitting down there, and you see children have no sense of sex at all.

Now, this Mr. great, your Freud, I don’t know from where he detected certain things, saying that the children have got this and all that – is all nonsense!  He just knows one side is this side, that too, up to, I don’t know, how much point he knows. He was not meditative at all!  You cannot know these things by judging some pathological cases. He himself was a pathological case, I would say, he was a psychopath himself!  And the people, who came to him, were all psychopaths.  And pathological cases cannot determine for the general people.  They cannot say, normal people. He never treated normal people. I mean, normal, would  not go near him. I mean, people are shocked, you know, when they heard such things. In India, all these they [unclear],  they will say, “He’s mad.” Nobody believes in all this. If you go and tell them, they’ll say, “Oh,  you tell somebody else, we know all that.”  

Such mad people are born again and again on this earth. But for us, you see, he proved us through the psychological cases.Now, supposing, take a case of a doctor. Now, he’s treating ulcer or say, he’s treating, some sort of a, he’s treating cancer. So, he takes a cancer patient and says, “This is cancer and this has happened and this has happened,” and then he says, “Everybody has cancer.” Will you accept it?

These are all psychological cases which he has dealt with, and naturally they are psychological because they are abnormal. So that is not normal, is a simple deduction. But I don’t know, how we miss  that point? 

Never take them seriously. Have they tried any normal people, natural people? And that’s why, you see, when these people tried – I wouldn’t say, that he did it for money or anything, he really, really just he believed in it what he did – but it was such a partial truth and partial truth can be very injurious and can be very dangerous. But the way we accepted him has created this problem for us of the left-hand side, as I call it. That  we do not  know where we surround, as far as the sex is concerned.

One should have a clear-cut idea as to how  lead a sex life. But you don’t have to discuss about it, and sit down and [unclear, things]. Allow the spontaneity to work it out.

This is what it is because, the Deity there, is innocent. Children don’t understand sex, they don’t understand private part or anything – they do not. If you are nude, they will just say, “You have this, and you have that,” and they talk so sweetly about it – they do not understand it is privately.

Only when you grow the,  – again the development of this fontanel bone being calcified, that is the only time when we start thinking about this and the shyness starts. I think, that might be the point when we can say, Eve and Adam got their freedom. Eve and Adam got their freedom by becoming themselves, by this fontanel bone being absolutely calcified.

At this juncture when you become absolutely independent, it is, – you are made because you have to evolve, likely  more than what you are. You have to find out things, some things, some of the things which you should know and deduct by your wisdom. You have to learn how to use your wisdom because you are the people, who are the flowers, who are the blossoms of this creation, the whole creation – imagine you are the people! And if you are not even independent to decide for yourself, if you are still children and not matured enough to decide, then what’s the use of getting   Realization to you?

You have to understand this dynamic force, you have to use it, you have to manoeuvre it, you have to give  Realization to people, and you have to change the whole world. All this has to be done through your agency and such people, if they are still like babies, and they don’t understand what to do about things,[unclear, nothing can be done]. 

That’s why, at this stage, at the human stage, God has – oh, I shouldn’t say God, but Nature has closed this. It closes down. Why? Why don’t we ask ourselves? Why does it close down here? Animals don’t close it. Why do we have to calcify to close here? Why human-beings do it? How they do it? We never think about it.

So, you are special, you are made like that, you have special ideas, you understand things much more, you are definitely evolved in the sense, you have greater sense of awareness.

You understand what is beauty, you understand what is filth to begin with – animals do not. Whether [we] take a horse or a lion, for them filth is nothing. They do not know what is filth. You pass them through any dirty place for them, it has no meaning. You take them to any filthy area, they will sit down there nicely and enjoy themselves. They are not going to bother about, whether there are flowers or not, whether there are gardens or not – they are not bothered.

So, the first thing is, we find that, they have no sense of fragrance much.  This  also, the same centre gives you – the sense of fragrance.

Now, the fragrance has gone to such a limit, you see, we have nice perfumes – we use lots of perfumes because we cannot stand filthy odour and things like that – but animals, do they need any perfume?  They can live, they are quite happy about it. They are not bothered – as to whether they are in an atmosphere where there is perfume or not. But they have a sense of smell, no doubt. Sense of smell they have, but not the sense of fragrance that we have. We are specially blessed to have a sense of fragrance because later on you will know, after  Realization, that sense of fragrance helps you to recognize the  Realized souls and not only  Realized souls, but also the person whom we call as Incarnation. I wish people had that sense, when Christ was born – they would never have  allowed His  crucifixion. Then you understand who has the fragrance and who does not have. So, the sense of fragrance is developed in this centre.

We have another sense in this centre. Human-beings have a special sense of aesthetics. Animals don’t have any aesthetics. Whether you put red, black, yellow, anything makes no difference to them.They know the colour. They have a colour sense alright. They have colour sense. Supposing, you show them red light first and give them  food to eat and then give them blue light and don’t give any food, as soon as you put the red light, their saliva glands will start secreting – means they have a sense of colour. But they have no sense of aesthetics. They cannot understand what is seen up, picture of this place, how it is placed, is it proportionate or not – it’s disproportionated.Wherever they are, if you give them food to eat, they will eat but for us the food must be laid down in a way that it should be appealing to our aesthetics otherwise we don’t feel like eating. It is looking horrid, then we just don’t want to eat.

We are very sensitive people, if you see that – we are extremely sensitive, it’s true. To understand aesthetics, you see, we take it for granted. We just take it for granted that we have aesthetics and the more the society is improving, the aesthetics are improving. People are very aesthetically sensitive in the West, extremely aesthetically equipped – they understand what are [unclear, this].  This, this centre of creativity within us, gives us the subtle point of aesthetics within human-beings which is higher than animals.

But then, what is the higher sense of this? As I’ve told you about the fragrance, now aesthetics are alright. We see the colour of this and that and that,  so we have no spiritual aesthetics. We do not understand spiritual aesthetics.

That is only possible after  Realization that you immediately understand what is spiritual aesthetics because you start getting vibrations. Aesthetically, whatever is absolutely correct, will only give vibrations. There is a coefficient which works out a formula, which works out these vibrations.A thing may look horrid to us, if you say, “Now, this is an art,  you see, it’s got an academic award, I don’t know how it  has got it? I just can’t, – look at it! It’s terrible!” But it had got an academic award. I don’t know, how people have given to it, what have they judged it for? 

Now, after  Realization you see, then you will be able to decide exactly whether it is aesthetically correct or not. If it is correct, it will be vibrating. Like, we’ll say Mozart.  Now,  to you, Mozart or anybody else is just the same. To Me, Mozart is great because as soon as you play his music, vibrations start flowing.

We have artists like that. We have many artists who you may think that, “Very good, he’s great”  and this and that.  But an artist who is a  Realized soul, you can immediately understand that he is the best, that will give you greatest pleasure.

The joy giving quality of a  particular art is to be greater for a spiritually awakened person than for another ordinary type.  Because, he can feel the joy coming into him – he does not have to talk, you are in thoughtless awareness, you are just watching the thing and the joy is pouring into you, and you feel so happy with the whole thing – you just start watching. 

So, there are some great artists, who might have been neglected and have been rejected by the society, abused, because these days, you see, an artist must show a new rule – that’s important. If it is not new, it is not art. Everything is ending up in the market, you see. So not necessarily, a new picture may give  vibrations, may not give vibrations.

The person, who has made it, is very important. If the person who has made it, is a  Realized soul, he cannot make anything that is not aesthetically correct – he cannot!  Because, you see, he goes on balancing, balancing till he feels happy. When he feels happy, means he gets vibrations, and he feels happy about it, so you get the real thing.

For example, some of the paintings of Christ, I mean, they  are absolutely hideous thing.   I cannot bear them, the lanky peaky  Christ absolutely looking so miserable – I think, it’s the projection of the artist himself, to show Him miserable.

Now, we can understand, if even with rationality. How can a person, like Christ, be that miserable!? The One, who has come to remove the miseries of the whole world, looking that miserable and lanky peaky  fellow, that everybody should have pity on Him! 

We must have reverence. We should see His body and face, we should depend on Him – He is the support of the whole world! That’s how He’s been described, and how can we have such a dainty darling there, weeping and crying and melancholy fellow? 

See, this is the idea we have got about art, which should complete later on, the joy, the bubbling joy we can see in things, and in paintings and in the faces also. Then our aesthetics change, you see, absolutely change, and we start enjoying it in the real sense, not that somebody has given you an award, so you have to think, “Yes, so, you see here,  they have given an award, so there must be something about it. So,  you must sit down and work it out.” No, it is not to be worked out, (Shri Mataji is laughing) it is a spontaneous thing!

As soon as you feel the joy, that he was  great, and you’ll see the thing, and you’ll say,  “Oh, that’s it, that’s it,” just enjoy, and you do not talk about it, think about it, but the joy itself, which was in the heart of the artist, is reflected in your own being, means,  start the whole thing rippling, completely rippling with joy! 

And that is the spontaneous thing that should happen to all of us and not this working it out, thinking it, writing criticism for it – what is the criticism!? As soon as you see it, you know it is that.  A child can make it out better than we because we are so complicated.

Even joy, you want to think about it – mean, how can you?  To Me a person, I’m different type, you see, I cannot understand, how can you sit down and describe joy? I’ve seen people describing, even a painting. How can be  described?

You just look at it, and you know, “O, it is joy!”  But you have to be that, to feel it. When this centre is enlightened, then you get the sense of aesthetics, which are Spiritual [unclear].

In India, now there are many temples, as you must have heard,  there are temples, where, you see, there are living deities, are there – it’s a fact.

Now, in the Bible, if you read what is not allowed, is that you are not going to recreate anything that is created in the Earth, on the Earth or in the Heaven.  Means, those which are created by Mother Earth as living deities, you should not recreate them!  Because when you start recreating, you being non-realized people, you will be putting your ideas into it, you’ll be making money out of it, you’ll be selling them in the market and that’s how you’ll spoil the whole complete vibrations, and it is very, very difficult to get even a sensible deity element! Whether in India or anywhere. I’ve seen many temples, many churches and what I find, they’re all good for nothing – useless. But there are some very good ones, also. For example, I went to Paris and this Notre-Dame, you see, there’s the statue of the Mother, is absolutely [unclear, … emit vibrations] – absolutely – the one who has made it has  [unclear, really done something].

The other day, I found a very nice marble statue made  – I don’t know when  it was made, of a Victorian, whatever it is,  and  just picked it up from the one junk shop, and it’s beautiful, it has got vibrations. If you’re  Realized, you can [unclear, seek for these].  This sense is developed in an enlightened being.

I’m answering your question throughout, if you see. You see, you had asked Me, “What is enlightenment?” See, now. So, this is your first enlightenment, that you know the fragrance of a  Realized soul. Is the first one. The second centre gives you the idea of Spiritual aesthetics, who is spiritually awakened.

You’ll find now, many people who give  Realization, how somebody nice comes in, everybody look of  “Come, come, come, come see his vibrations,” and they’re like children sitting and taking all the vibrations and feeling it so nice within themselves, “O, come, come, see.” Maybe the person is a poor man, maybe the person is from a very low caste or maybe low society or whatever it is, but  “See the vibrations – is so beautiful!”

We had somebody making in our building, somebody was preparing our roof, you see, and we had to lift up something. So some of the Sahaja Yogis came down to help Me there, and they said, “We’ll call some gentleman.” So, the one who came to us, you see, – they all were enamoured. They said, “Look at this one! [unclear]  He didn’t  understand  why they were  so much appreciating? He’s an ordinary labourer! ! But see, great, and they called him again and again, and I also said, “What can I do for you?” and all that. So, he couldn’t understand, why was he so important to us?  But he was emitting vibrations! 

So, this is a thing, is that by through this you know how, how the aesthetics are correct vibration-wise. Secondly, by developing this, by enlightenment of this, you also create things which are correct spiritually, absolutely correct. Those who will make anything, even a child who’s a  Realized soul, you see, it will make something like a frog say, out of this plasticine you give, you will start that plasticine will start giving vibrations; It’s most surprising. I have seen some children working with some clay, you see, some of these  Realized souls, and they make some funny shapes but immediately the vibrations start coming because they would not tolerate anything that doesn’t give them vibrations, so they’ll remove a part, they’ll add up a part and shape it in such a way that it is aesthetically correct,  Spiritual. 

So that is the second thing which gives us this enlightenment. I don’t know if  I can cover seven of them, but this is what it is.

Now, this is a very important centre in the navel, as we call it, the Nabhi Chakra. This one is called as Swadhishthan and this is a Nabhi Chakra in the centre, which manifests our Solar Plexus. This manifests our…

End of the first tape

Second tape – DRAFT

Nirmala Vidya – 1978-0000-1-Public Program No 1 Caxton Hall 02 HD 

This manifests our Pelvic Plexus, this manifests our – what you call it? – Aortic Plexus, and this manifests our Solar Plexus. This is a very subtle, a subtle [unclear, subject], and our [unclear, subtle being] which we [unclear had not realised] and understand, what our centre is, that’s the problem. I’m just trying to make you aware of that and also make you aware of what you have to achieve and what you have [unclear, come].

Now this centre is very important and is placed there in the centre of the navel. We get our navel from our mother. The first thing is, that the motherly qualities of compassion, love and all these things start showing. But the basic thing that we get from our mother is the evolutionary power. Why do you [unclear, honestly …], why do you come all the way to Caxton Hall to listen to Me? After all, there are much more interesting places where you can go! But why are you here? You are seeking. Why are you seeking? How this seeking has come to you?

The seeking, in the beginning in the amoeba, may be looking like a seeking for food. That to begin [unclear]. Then it goes into subtler. Then, from food, we can say, in the animals, it may be overpower another animal. That also comes. But at the stage when you are human beings, what is your seeking is? Something [unclear], you don’t know, you are not satisfied.

Now here, in this country, where the food problem is solved, you have everything to eat, and you can have whatever you like. So, you don’t feel like eating food. [unclear] your own food. You think that, you see, there is too much attention on food, is not [unclear]. But in a poor country, there is much more attention. But in an affluent country, you do not want to have more food, you think, – is too much eating, and we should have better food than to eat more food. 

The aesthetics of the Solar Plexus, [unclear] aesthetics that we have, now, today among ourselves, we are not aware of it. For example, we cannot bear to eat food cooked by anyone. We want to ask, out of sort of condemnation. Supposing somebody says, – ”All alright, have any food and go to hell!” You won’t take that food at all. You will have nothing to do. If somebody says to you that, – “Oh, please come to our place”. We have to invite, you see, human society has doing things like this. And we invite. We write to them, – “Please come and attend, please be kind to come to our place for dinner.” And, see, we [unclear] that we make them feel all the time that they are wanted by us, we want them to come, and feel that is a great pleasure to us.

Any human being, whether he is an [unclear], whether he is a poor man or a rich man, you see, if you insult him, he cannot bear. Now, do you know the subtleties [unclear, …]? But we cannot take food, which is given to us through insults or by showing us [unclear, down]. Now that’s the reason sometimes I feel that the way Americans or all these people have had to the developing countries they have done/made the greatest mistake, by hurting people [by] saying that – “we are happy!”

It is that when you try to help someone, just do it in such a way that if this hand has, the other should [unclear, get]. And this is the grace of doing things for others. The grace of feeding others. How the mother does the [unclear, feed? Quietly]. You see, this is a common thing with all human beings, that they cannot bear any food given to them by insincere. 

Now, but when you are enlightened, what happens to you on this Solar Plexus? That is the point here, you see. When you are enlightened, then what should happen to your Solar Plexus? How [unclear]. It cannot bear any food which is given to you by a person who has been not a good person! Say, for example, Hitler cooks the food and gives you. You will not tolerate it, you will vomit immediately. You would not know he is Hitler. If somebody has a Hitler sitting in his stomach, say, [unclear], and he cooks food for you when you eat that food, you will [unclear, be vomiting], or you get diarrhoea.

This stomach knows and decides, the mind does not! You see, you look at some people. They look extremely beautiful, and they will talk to you, – “Come along, have this and do this and all”, but when you go to their house, you will feel – Oh, God, I was feeling very sick, I just couldn’t bear the fellow. The way he was behaving, I just couldn’t understand why I was going so sick, and I didn’t want to eat in that house, though he had done all the good thing that was possible.

So the aesthetics of the food, of our seeking, you see, it’s started with food also are changed because then you start eating the food which we call [unclear, blessed], which is, –  you will be amazed if you go to a poor country, and you see the poor are not eating [unclear, food], you won’t be able [unclear], you won’t be able to eat any food at all, and you will be starving, you will not know why you are starving, and I was surprised that a person like [Nehru?] should say that – ”a poverty anywhere is a threat to prosperity anywhere.” [unclear] that if you have prosperity and there is poverty [unclear] next door, you cannot eat your food, you see, that is within us, we are human beings. You see if there is somebody starving in your house, somebody is dead in your house, you just can’t eat any food, you just don’t feel like eating. 

Of course, I mean, I have seen some funny things also happening in the West, something, is something that you cannot understand. (Shri Mataji is laughing) [unclear]. If somebody is dead in the family, then they’ll have champagne. How can you have champagne when somebody is dead? It is something that I can’t understand! But that is the satanic, I would say, which takes you to the left side. At that time if you really love that person, if you have real feelings, how can you have champagne? I mean, champagne is supposed to be a celebrating thing. I mean, are you celebrating that the fellow is dead and gone, and [unclear…]? Is a comedy [unclear] shocks [unclear]! 

Actually, I went to somebody who died, and he was a very dear friend of ours and we went all the way to [unclear] and, a very, very dear friend, a very fine person, you see, his wife had [unclear] him and all that, but still he was a very fine man, and all of them were there, and they looked at our faces, you see, and they said – “are you sick? What’s the matter?”

We really don’t understand what’s the matter with these people. They were bubbling with joy and happiness. They said – “Let’s have something to drink.” They said – “Oh, you will have only tea. So let’s have tea.” I said – We don’t eat any food. I mean, we were feeling so sick, that we ran away from that place. We couldn’t bear it any more, because you see, we were so much attached to that person. He was such a kind person, he came to my daughter’s wedding call, and all the way he came here. And only for a day, he came to attend the wedding, such a nice man there came, and he dies, and here we all are having champagne, I mean, how we can think of it? 

Nothing touches these people! They were big [unclear] people wearing all…, and they had got [unclear, a promos] for all the dresses needed for going to the funeral, very nicely dressed, and the [unclear] had all the blacks and all the black diamonds to match with that [unclear], but there weren’t at all the feelings, you see, we were absolutely unequipped because we had no idea we just ran to that place when we heard about it, and we have no time even to change, you see, and they were writing down a list of a how [unclear] and what flowers [unclear]. Very nicely, they said,- “What did you bring? [unclear, …], we were so shocked when we came down to see him and [unclear] last rites, and even now, you see, when I talk about it, I get [unclear, so excited …] lost to us, you see, [unclear]. And this is what I feel, that feeling started getting less and less, with this Nabhi chakra getting spoiled.

So we can [unclear] enlightenment in the Nabhi, you understand the value of feelings within you – because that’s the mother’s, mother’s blessings to you, that are given to you, that you feel [unclear].  

Materialism, when it’s [unclear] like one p. down, and you are [unclear]. That is only because [unclear, if this is wrong]. You see, for an animal, if he doesn’t get bread, he gets something else and eats. But for human beings, the bread is not, so they are finished. [unclear] “Oh, God, [unclear, no bread], we cannot have.”

The materialism of the very subtle type. You see, we are not materialistic depends, that, you would not behave in a way that will show the materialism. You see, that way, no way! [unclear]. Nobody can make out what is materialism. But on the Nabhi chakra, you can make out immediately [unclear, you can see]. That this becomes sort of a – [unclear, inside] you see, a pinch, like, I would say something funny, like a lady I know [unclear]… presents for her [unclear…]. And one day she asked Me for two p. (penny), she said – “Can You give me two p., because I have to post your letter, you have just given me ten p. and ten p. are less, can you give me two p.? “I mean, [unclear] … But to be that meticulous about money, to be like [unclear] about money, I mean to think too much of money comes through spoiling of this. This only human beings can do, not animals, you see. We are the people who can spoil our centres, we are the people we can [unclear]. 

But once it is enlightened, what happens? You lose the sense of possession completely. You do not have it. You see a hole is created, sort of you cannot possess, you know that it becomes a part and parcel of you, [unclear] I should say. It is an actualisation of your being, that you just lose the sense of possession. You see if somebody comes and says alright now – “I like this – alright, have it!”

But if you think of it rationally, possessing is a headache. If, supposing I have possessing Claxton Hall, the one who is possessing, go on asking. He must be having lots of headache about it. But if I do not possess it, is a nice thing, I’m using it very nicely. But the way I possess it, it will become a headache, I may have to jump into a lunatic asylum or someplace that [unclear] to maintain it, to have all kinds of headaches. You see, the possession is the greatest headache we should think of. But, I do not say that you should not have things. Warren has given you all the things to use [unclear], but do not be their slaves. Possession gives you the enslavement of matter. Sense of possession if you have, you are lost. You just see what a myth. Where you possess these things in the register [unclear], isn’t it? Do you take even a [unclear] give you back? And it is all left here. But we have a consolation in the mind that is registered in our name. How they dare to take [unclear]?

The idea of possession is an absolute, absolute myth! Nobody possesses anything. Is a fact! And that is the enlightenment that comes to you and you start laughing [unclear, you know], sometimes the way you [unclear] fight and ask for – “This is my land, this is your land, this is this…” whose land, my child? Are you going to take even a particle of that from this earth? When you die, you just go to dust and [unclear].

[So why you don’t worry about those things which are joy-giving?] 

You lose the sense of possession, and gradually your priorities change. With this chakra getting enlightened, your priorities have to change. 

Now, on this point, I have to tell you something about the so-called – great spiritualists of this world. Those who have got connections and possessions, one after another in the name of God, how do you explain?

‘I collect money from you very nicely, and I am the most spiritual woman going round, and I use it for My own purpose [unclear] My own [unclear], and I have big, big diamonds put on my hands, and walk very seriously, and all of you have to come.’

And you do it! You bow to such people! You do it! Why? You know, this man doesn’t have a single pi of his own, a single pi of his own. A single … of his own, he’s collected money from others, and he speaks about [unclear] and he thinks that he is a very big man, and he’s walking about [unclear] all these lands, why should we bow to such a man? All this [unclear, spectacle] is going on in the name of so-called gurus in the world. They take your money. You can handle them with your money. If somebody has more money, they have more interest in him. If you are a poor person, they have nothing to do. They will see that whatever is in your purse. You can go ahead, [unclear] many want to keep. “It’s alright, doesn’t matter, if you throw away [unclear …] money. They will teach you how to smother, they will teach you all that is against religion, against your wellbeing, against your peace. But if you can give your purse to them, go ahead. There are gurus and gurus in India like this, you see. 

There are some sanyasi in India sitting down very nicely, they will show some tricks here and there. Now you people who are intelligent have to think about it, use your brains – how can these people be anywhere near to challenge you?! Why are you [unclear, slaving] over these? 

I have be happy in our country to say that – ‘alright, don’t worry about your children, they are my children! Your wife, don’t worry, she’s mine! You just don’t worry about …, you just hand them over to Me. The only thing is, the [unclear] your property should come to me. That’s all! I look after you, you become a sanyasi, you [unclear] all your belongings and possessions. I am a person who doesn’t possess anything. You give everything to me.’ And people will say – “Oh, God! See, he had doing [unclear…….].”

I don’t know, there are so many of them who believes such nonsensical things. Just see clearly! Just [unclear…] these things clearly!

 That is only possible if your Nabhi is corrected.

The other day, somebody told Me a very good example of a guru who came here. You see, he came here, and a relation of Mine, poor man, was victimised. 

He was written that – “our guru is coming, you must receive him, you must look after him, and arrange a lecture for him, all these. 

So, this poor doctor, you see, he said: 

“All right”. He came home. The guru used to [unclear, insult him] (Shri Mataji is laughing], the poor doctor was just stumbling, you see, in a very stumbling condition, he didn’t have sufficient to feed this guru and all that. 

He (the guru) said – “But you see, I am [unclear] and what about doing [unclear….]? 

He said (the doctor) – “But you are a guru!”. 

He (the guru) said – “But I am sinless, I [unclear…], … He goes there. 

After some times he says, – “alright, what about getting me a suit? Because everybody looks at/like me, when I wear a dress like this.” 

Alright, he gets him a suit.  

Now, where is he? He is in Holland, married with a Dutch lady, with a big … of his own, the same guru living like a [unclear, lord] … . It’s a fact! Is a fact! He is not even a guru any more now! He doesn’t want to, [unclear…] . It’s a case!

And this kind of people you are feeding and looking after. Why? Because this portion is not enlightened. [unclear]. And they are crooks, and they know how to play up on your ego, and they know how to pamper you. Because when you give some money to someone, there is something in you which thinks – “Oh, I have purchased. And that subtle point they ticked.

The other day I had somebody from India, a very, I should say, topmost official, and he came down, he was a disciple of a guru. But he was not satisfied with that and he came to Me and [unclear[, and after that, you see, when he got his Realisation he told Me a [unclear] about this [unclear, guru] that he had, who has got three-four [unclear, strips]… He said, that the trick of the [unclear, tricks] is that he takes money, and people came to him; – “that we have paid for it, so let’s go through it.” 

Then he (the guru) said – “You have to pay a little bit more if you have to go through it. And it goes on like that, and people poor things are paying and paying and paying [unclear…]

This is the subtle point they have caught through your Nabhi chakra. There are many other things that happened after the enlightenment. But the basic thing is that immediately if you see a person who is trying to chit you, immediately the stomach starts telling you, that a sickening feeling – see, he may be very nice, but you can’t [unclear, bear it]. That is the sign of the enlightenment of the Nabhi.

Now, a person who is enlightened [unclear], if he has an interest in your purse, you please know that he has nothing to do with God! And nothing to do with spirituality. All of you have been cheated like this, so be careful. Any man who accepts anything from you or asks you for anything, you should know [that] he is not a guru by any chance! Because such a person it has no interest in you. Actually, if you ask Me, I don’t even know your names. And I don’t even know what positions you have and what money you have. I only know you through your Kundalini. Where you are and put you right. 

I know that he is a disciple of Mahesh yogi, because I know from his Kundalini catching is there. I know all these people only through their Kundalini because My main interest is the inner being and not at all what positions you have got, that you are a [unclear] or you are an ordinary person from the streets. It makes no difference to a spiritual person. [unclear] an absolute character like Christ, and judge everything relating to [unclear].

Do you think, He cares for any one of those bureaucrats in those days? He didn’t care for anybody who was in power, who had money! He cared for people who were innocent and sincere who were seeking Gog, who were normal people who were very, very, absolutely ordinary people. On the contrary, we have to say these extraordinary are no good for Sahaja Yoga. Absolutely no good, they are extremely complicated they think no end of themselves and I try to somehow or another see that they may not come next time. And sometimes My disciples say that – “Mother, why you did that? First time we had so many, and then so many disappeared.”

I said: – this is for good, don’t you worry. There are people who just come here because it is a fashion out. If they are seekers, if they want to find out, they will come again and I [unclear] they are. Let us welcome the people who are simple. Those who are really seekers, who want it! Who want the reality! Let us give it to them! Those who do not want it, you are not going to [unclear, fight with them].

I think we have talked about these chakras, and the enlightenment of it’s, now the rest of them I will talk next time if you don’t mind, but I would like to have some questions from you and then we should do our meditation and you should get the experience. 

Seeker: I think [unclear]… some yogis… But it seems to be good.

Shri Mataji: Yes, it is. You see, there are, that I said that one, this Nabhi chakra there are many [unclear] is not one. [unclear]. Supposing there are some gurus. Now, for example, I will tell you. I know of some gurus who on the Nabhi chakra, they just fast. They fast, they will do, you see they will do just – lightening [unclear] absolutely people living on – [unclear, tantrikas]  sitting on their heads, standing on their legs or standing on their say one finger or hang like that. You see [unclear] and all that. This is also a part of the Nabhi chakra when they move to the right-hand side. I have not given you those variations. But there are variations. Even these abnormal things, not [unclear]. You see, why to be abnormal? Why to stand on your heads? Why do all abnormal things? You have to be a normal person to begin with. You must know that a Realised soul have to be the most normal person. We cannot bear wear [unclear] mantras, neither we could be a dandy fellow, we cannot. We cannot. If anyone of these things are interesting, that person cannot get Realisation. These are extremes, too extremes. You have to be a householder, a simple person, and [unclear]

Now you may it say because you have studied about Buddha, now I tell you [unclear, why?]. But, about Buddha [there] is a misunderstanding. A very big misunderstanding on Buddha is two points, which are very much misunderstood by human beings.

Firstly that – because he became a sanyasi you think everybody should become a sanyasi and wear that dress and all that. It was a mistake because Buddha [unclear…] his own life. [unclear…]. Buddha himself, you see, first of all, was searching. He didn’t know what to do, so he went to some gurus. They said – “you must detach yourself from your family … put your attention on yourself, and that’s why you have to become a sort of sanyasi.”

Alright. And that in those days it was necessary because there was no Sahaja Yoga yet started in those days, so he had to do it. Because you see, if your attention is outside, how to take it in? That was the point. If you are busy, how to get a break for the morning time and how to arrange your wife’s driving licence? It’s a big problem for human beings to get Realisation, you see, these were different days and people had to work it out, you see, so those who wanted to seek they were very few, they had to take to such a life in which they could [unclear, remove] their time to their Self-realisation and could achieve that to their cleansing and all that.

That was a different time all together. But today that is not the thing. Today where ever you are, whatever you are doing, you have to get your Realisation. It has to be a-mass [unclear]. It has to be a-mass [unclear], and that’s why the dedication of Buddha is to be understood. But you don’t have to that much [unclear]. You don’t have to give up your wife and children and those things.

But still, how Buddha got his Realisation was not through all these things, and I must tell you, and at the last time He has got it, it was sahaja. Because He was just lying down, and suddenly the whole thing came on him. And it worked it, maybe. But the enlightenment came to/on him by grace. But the grace is the thing which is going to work it out. But, at different times, the grace worked in a different way. The reason was that the man was not so much prepared. It was not such a situation as it is [unclear, today]. You are much more prepared inside that you were in those days. You see, the sense of possession is much less today if you see it in yourself that it was. And even today, when after Sahaja Yoga you will be surprised that once the Kundalini has risen, you change yourself automatically, because your attention goes inside.[unclear] you try to see something nonsensical outside in development in all that, you just go inside and you start to seeking that, because the joy starts coming from you. Because your attention is joy inside, you immediately start moving inside. 

So, it’s a different thing, that Buddha’s stile, He did not take the [unclear], he did not denounce the world He goes away from it, because ultimately what He found there was no Mother to tell him that – ‘you come to sahaja’. He felt that he has gone through all the experiences and all that, [unclear]. But then he corrected it because he has born again as Hassan and Hussein, Mahavira and Buddha were born to Mohamad Sahib’s daughter. So it is also – it is not a [unclear] thing, He came back again to tell people that you don’t go to that extreme.

Now whether it is true or not you can see in vibrations. Only through vibration you will know that which I am saying it is true or not.

Seeker: [inaudible]

Shri Mataji: Yes. You see, it is a new birth you are born, you are a child, you are borne, that you touch it, you see, and you do feel that joy [unclear, in the self], you [were] born, in the first stage you do get – first shock you get that the Kundalini rises. But I have told you there are many [unclear] affects the Kundalini and then the Kundalini again goes back. Say for example you are, say, a liver patient. You made that sure Kundalini all right to breakthrough you will have the feelings, you get vibrations, you will be awakened. But you have a bad liver. So the Kundalini will go to the liver, supplying into, by that time you may not [unclear] vibrations as usual. But if you want to give Realisation to somebody [unclear, you can]. Once the Kundalini is awakened you can cure people, give Realisation, everything you can do, but as far as your personality is concerned the Kundalini it is not [unclear]. I would say like this.

Now, if there is an officer being appointed. So, what happens? The officer is appointed but still he is not say up to the mark, but he has rights and those rights [unclear, he can use]. But he has to come up to the mark, and that is the job of the Kundalini. She works it out. She looks after you, that’s how the people are cured, you know, and [unclear] cancer patient here, and this is only through the Kundalini’s blessings on you, because She is your own Mother and She looks after you.

So, we cannot explain this, but what you can say is depending on how you are the Kundalini looks after you, and takes you to [unclear]. Allow it to work out and it [unclear]. But, as soon that you get your Realisation, you are not perfect. That is not possible, because of your problems, the problems, the problems you have had so far you have committed all these problems they are [unclear]. It’s a living process. And a living process, the way it was [unclear]. 

Seeker: [unclear] …..

Shri Mataji: Yeah, I will tell you.

Seeker: … this must be struggled …

Shri Mataji: I want to … this point. It is very….

Seeker: [unclear]…

Shri Mataji: But I am just telling you a deeper sense of it and then you can understand what is the difference between an animal, a child and ourselves, you see.

Seeker: [unclear]  

Shri Mataji: Yes, now I’ll tell you. The difference is like this; that a child he is catching he is one with the nature, and the animal is also one with the nature. It acts according to the nature, it has spontaneity and all that. But it is not aware! Now, you are closed down. Alright? You are made a human being, a matured person. Now! Once you are developed like that, then you are opened. Now you are aware! After Realisation, there is a difference, tremendous. A child, if he is not a Realised soul though it acts according to spontaneity, and  the natural way some things that he has got. But! It is not aware of it, while you will be after the Realisation, the vibrations will be flowing through you, you can manoeuvre it, you can see how it flows how it works out. You are made capable by giving you freedom. 

Seeker: [unclear, the … before Realisation says that; if God …a therefore … but if a person… he has the choice …… to achieve Realisation, before he has to reach a certain stage…

Shri Mataji: Yes, that is true, that is true. I mean, there are some people who can newer get Realisation. Now, if I say that, [unclear…] (Shri Mataji is laughing) everything, oh, Mother, how can that be? [unclear] it’s true. You see, you have seen in evolution, everybody from the fishes do not became reptile, and from all the reptiles everybody did not became human being. So, of course that part as you are saying [unclear…] Realisation, no doubt about it! No doubt! This is very – it’s true. I not … this is not, you see, we cannot command God, we have to request Him [unclear] we cannot demand. You see, we have a shopping [unclear, habit] you see, for everything [unclear] … He is not. You see, we think we can demand, we can say; – “alright, come along! Let’s all of us have Realisation.” He said: – “alright, and [unclear…]”. He has to decide, it is His grace we have to ask, you have to humble down in your heart and ask for His grace. You have done lots of mistakes, so, you should say – “O, God whatever mistakes we had done, we didn’t understand and realise, if we had insulted You or insulted ourselves, please forgive us.” And that’s how you have to ask for forgiveness. If you say Lord’s prayer is a complete mantra. And you have to ask for and once you ask for, He forgives because He is the ocean of forgiveness. What you say is true. Everybody is not [unclear…]

Seeker: [unclear……raising the Kundalini….  If a person is ready for it, would be …]

Shri Mataji: I will tell you. So far [unclear, …], but nothing happened. Nobody was wrong or anything, you see. Kundalini is awareness and She understands. You see, actually, supposing I’m raising your Kundalini, alright. Then She tells Me what’s the problem with you. She, she, she shows on My fingers what is the problem. Supposing, you see, My this finger starts burning, or this finger starts burning. Then I know which is the centre, you are [unclear]. I have to correct that centre so the Kundalini raises. There cannot be any dangers whatsoever from Kundalini. Nothing! Because She is your Mother. How can it be dangers. 

But why these peoples are suffered from dangers. Now, I tell you. That is, we call as  anaadhikr, which means unauthorised people. Say supposing somebody says: 

“Oh, I went to Claxton Hall [unclear…]. 

So what did you do? 

I was coming from the [unclear, back]. 

Then? 

I broke the [unclear]. I get caught … what was the tragedy was there. I was roaming about [unclear]…

So, so you see, they caught hold of Me, and they started [unclear]. 

It is unauthorised. For example, there is a man, say, I want to take the name of Hitler (Shri Mataji is laughing)…. You know, I don’t know much of evil in this world. What sort of evil people do. But say, a very evil man, (Shri Mataji is laughing)… Think of someone like that, you see, I cannot because being a Mother, you see, I cannot think of somebody so baaad that whose Kundalini I cannot rise, you see, being a Mother. You don’t understand that part of Me, maybe. But you see, I am like that, you see, for everyone I think that, I must raise everybody’s Kundalini when I have to keep awake there now, what I have to do I must do it, that’s a different point. But, I would say, think of somebody who’s that condemned, you see, whose Kundalini won’t be raised. I mean, if you can think of someone like that, the person comes to Me, so then I would not tell this thing at least [unclear] Kundalini. I go on working on him,, you see, in the hope that maybe I will put the chakras right and I [unclear, bring] the Kundalini. As a Mother, I will go on working till the end! Till I live, till the last drop of My [unclear, blood] I will work for that, because that’s My child. Once he says “Mother, I want this to be done” I will do, no doubt. But I cannot say that it would happen.

So the dangers of the things are, you think of a very, very evil man, you see, and he uses his sex for raising the Kundalini. What will happen? The Kundalini doesn’t say anything, but there is a tremendous force, you see, this you cannot see, there is a tremendous force. The same force can destroy. And it rises [unclear…] Kundalini [unclear], on the sides, in these two things (left and right channels), and gives you blisters, I have seen people coming with blisters [unclear]. I said: – What happened? – “The Kundalini was raised. What did [unclear,….] There are people who are dirty people who have nothing to do with religion. They do, so [unclear …] There are people, I have seen, who got the Kundalini raised, one man, who was like a person whom some bees have bitten, who was like that, he was doing like ha, ha, ha.

My brother was in Delhi, and he went to my brother’s place, and said: – when is Mataji coming? He said: [unclear…] to Bombay  – Mother, [unclear…] I am dying here, and this is happening, that is happening. When I reached there, you see, this fellow was there, they said that he doesn’t go back home, he is just staying here on the road only, and he has doing ha, ha, ha, all that.

I [unclear] very, very [unclear…] became like a mad person. I asked him: – “What happened?” And he said that: “My guru raised my Kundalini and I am got blisters.” I said: “Now, how are you here?” He said that: ”My guru told me that’s only one master of Kundalini, – that’s Me, “so you go to Mother, she will put [inaudible], and don’t tell my name to Her.” And I put it right. And [unclear] science institute director, if you can write to him, you can find out his name. He had a very bad Kundalini problem and [unclear] shouting at Me, “Please Mother, come and help me! I am burning, I am burning! Somebody has done harm to me”, but he doesn’t want to tell the name of his guru. [unclear] himself, you see. And he had blisters on his body, absolutely blisters all over, and he was burning. And when I went to him, you see, you won’t believe [unclear, he was telling Me], the whole thing was [unclear] by Mother, [unclear…], he absolutely cured, absolutely cured, and he is so afraid of it, that he doesn’t want to come to My programme. (Shri Mataji is laughing). He said: “Mother, I don’t want my Kundalini [unclear…] I met him once in the market he was going to, and he just saw Me and he [unclear] and helped Me, he said: “Mother, I’m sorry, I didn’t go to see You, but I’m frightened about this Kundalini raising. At the name of Kundalini, he gets a shiver because he suffered [unclear] much. It’s so! It’s [unclear, very, very] dangerous in the sense that it’s not the Kundalini [unclear….]. It’s horrid! It’s a wrathful person! [unclear …], so don’t try tricks with him! [unclear] That’s very true.

This people who are doing this Kundalini raising, I have read of people who got a sudden shock, coming in a short [unclear] into them, and some sort of thing happening to them and going mad and all that. This is nothing! But some sort of a [unclear…] or they had been leading a very bad life and [unclear, they have trying] some tricks with you. You do not know what tricks they are playing, and what kind of life they have been having, you see, this is a sign of it. Or maybe [unclear, thirdly] can be that some spirits had entered into them, and they are getting ideas that we have got something. We have got [unclear…] two of them who had watching sitting down, you had this kind of [unclear] entered into them, and they suffered a lot [unclear]. It can happen to anyone. Not because the persons were doing any wrong, but maybe that they were too simple, and some spirit went into them.

Seeker: [unclear]

Shri Mataji: It’s only one. Kundalini will never rise unless and until it passes through the central channel of Sushumna [unclear…]  wrong idea. It’s nothing right and wrong. No. This is only, (the seeker is trying to say something). These two sides channels that are here, you see, are here, can get excited by any centres. For example, there is one guru who puts his finger here and puts the spirit in here. Moves it upside down, and can put the spirit in to your this channel or this channel, and can put into ego or super-ego. There are some gurus who give you names. Take the name of say, say, they say take the name of ram. Now, he has got a spirit on ram. The rama’s spirit can go into you here and can start working. That is not God, not the incarnation of Rama, but a spirit which has got the rama’s name. And he goes in here and starts working and then you get, sometimes you might get even cancer of the throat. And the heart stars trembling like this. Many people who give this kind of mantra and all that it’s all unauthorised, all wrong and they are using nothing but spirits. 

It cannot go wrong! How can it be? Just think of who has made this [unclear, channels]? Who has made it? The Dynamic of dynamism, greatest of greatest, Almighty! We do not understand [unclear] God Almighty. We think, you see, still we are doing it our own, the way we talk about it. But He is God Almighty! He can do whatever He likes. He is [unclear, truth] and the way He arranges things. [unclear, you think He will make any mistakes?] How can He? It’s not done by human beings.

There is no wrong channel. The only thing is when you try to do some harm to a person, you see, by putting a thing here, you can just [unclear…]. You can get all the money that he has, all his properties, his wife, his children everything [unclear, attached to him] if you manage this chakra. Many people do it. You have one guru here [unclear…]. He called it light. And you get a [unclear…] you think it is a light. It is nothing [unclear].

And this chakra can be controlled by telling you some mantras. But they don’t tell you a mantra, they are very clever. They will tell you a mantra, say Rama’s centre is here. Actually, at this part it is. So what happens, when they tell you rama’s name, this mantra is spoiled, this is spoiled and with the spirit this is spoiled. So three chakras got spoiled.

Wrongdoers can spoil even part of Sushumna. If it is clear, no problem of Kundalini rising, if it is not clear, if it is a problem it can be corrected in Sahaja Yoga.

Seeker: [unclear, …chakras there]

Shri Mataji: Yes.

Seeker: [unclear, the main centres] make the Sushumna. The Sushumna, there is shown, started from [unclear].

Shri Mataji: [unclear]

Seeker: It is connected?

Shri Mataji: No, It is not connected. This connection comes through this Kundalini which rises. This is the gap, which is called in the Sanskrit language as the Bhawasagara. But we call it as, you can say, what should you say, bottomless pit or (Shri Mataji is laughing) whatever they call it. You see the connection is not there, it is like two, two ladders which are complete and one ladder hanging in the way. That’s why the Kundalini has to rise [unclear] Up to this point, our human awareness had reached. Up to this point, our parasympathetic nervous system is acting, or we can say in the central nervous system you can feel. Once this is joined together, all together, then you start feeling it on your fingers, the whole sympathetic nervous system is starting [unclear…] subject [unclear… ]. Forget it, you [unclear… ] better have the joy.

Seeker:[unclear] you Mataji, and [unclear…] can I ask your name?

Shri Mataji: Nirmala

Seeker: Nirmala Devi, yeah, and mostly … we call you Mataji…

Shri Mataji: What do you want to know?

Seeker: [unclear]

Shri Mataji: But see now, this lifetime, I am not going to say anything about it. Because those who told anything like [unclear] they were crucified, you see! I’m very careful, I will tell you about…, I would like you to discover for yourself. You see, now I am [unclear] giving this human Realisation [unclear, I learned] that to human beings, the most challenging is to tell them anything about yourself. So keep quiet. Let them become something and see for themselves. What did Christ say? – “I am the Light and [unclear].” It was too much, it was too much for human beings to bear, you see. When Krishna said: “[Sanskrit, Sarva dharma …] – Give up all these nonsensical things and just come to Me and surrender to Me”. If I say such  sentences, you will crucify Me. I know. But, I am not going to stop a – persuade in a very [unclear] manner, I am a, [unclear], and I am much cleverer than all [unclear] at least that [unclear] experience that we are not going to fall the show by these things, you see. So, you have to discover Me. And I will not tell you what I am, what are My powers, how [unclear…]. It is for you to discover. That’s a much better thing, that you discover Me nicely and find out. Alright?

Seeker: [unclear…………….]

Shri Mataji: I will tell you what is to be done. [unclear…] we had Indians, you see, [unclear…], because they have a sensitivity. I would say they are not [unclear…] I would say, they know, you see, that’s why all these thugs came here, because they would not sort of [unclear, cheat us] they are too clever. But we Indians we will feel it [unclear, and ask] but I am not going to say much about it. Let’s see now, what is it. If I am a hoax you must discover, if I am cheating you will discover and if I am something [unclear, you will discover that]… Alright? You find out. But just now, don’t you worry. HA! 

Seeker: [inaudible]

Shri Mataji: [unclear]……..

Seeker: …how you get the chakras, which way they are… this is the number one…

Shri Mataji: Yes, this is the number one, this is the number one, this is the Mooladhara chakra here, here is Mooladhara. The second is Swadhishthana, the second here, Swadhishthana is here, alright? Now, this is Swadhishthana, and number one [unclear], and this one is Manipura. This chakra is here, this finger, and then we have got this heart is on this finger, heart, and then we have got Vishuddhi is on this finger, we got this Agnya, is on this finger. I would say that you can take the chart from [unclear]. And here they have shown it very nicely. [unclear] that he has given this colours as shown. Can you see the colours here? That is how it is.