The Subtlety Within

Caxton Hall, London (England)

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“The Subtlety Within”, Caxton Hall, London (UK), 9 June 1980.

[The other] day in the ashram I was telling you about our subtleties, the subtleties we have already within us which we do not understand. Could be from our sub-conscious mind, could be from our supra-conscious mind, could be from anywhere that is unknown to us; but the subtleties that lead us to our universal being is the one we should bother about.

We have sometimes heard about people who get a hunch. Like somebody says, “I must buy this house, I get a hunch that I should buy it.” Or sometimes people say that, “I always hear something, somebody tells me that this should not be done.” But all such suggestions must be judged that they come to you to tell you about something of the beyond or something that concerns the mundane life, like buying a house.

God is not interested, very much, in what house you buy, or how much money you make in a race: He is not! Because it is not important to God. One can understand that, isn’t it.

Also that God is not interested in telling you against someone in the ear that, “Beware of this man, he is a dangerous guy!” For, if somebody is going to harm you physically, maybe to some part, we can say that God wants to preserve your body; but this body is also not so important to God, because He can create it again! The most important thing that God has to give us is His love, His connection with us, His Kingdom, His powers.

So, the subtleties which we should really accept within us, should be [those] which take you to the realm of joy, to the realm of collectivity. Like suddenly you see a little child weeping on the street and you feel [that] your heart is weeping. Not that you feel guilty about it but you feel one with the child and you feel you are weeping: then definitely that subtlety of compassion that God is, is felt within you. But you don’t feel guilty about it, or you don’t give him 2p (£0.02) or something to insult his ego. You do something very constructive about it, extremely constructive, and you do it secretly; you don’t like to tell anybody about it because you think it is vulgar to talk about your compassion. You do it so sweetly that the other fellow doesn’t feel it. The whole act is such a beautifying thing. You don’t announce it in the paper and you don’t publish it in “Who’s Who” or you do not go for a Nobel Prize or something like that. This is all very vulgar for the Subtle Thing that you worship within yourself, because that element within you is so much higher than all these gross considerations that you just care for that.

That is what God is. That’s how God shines within us, even before our Realisation, before our connection with God. He shines in some people even before they have been Realised. You see them, they are quiet people, they are not show-offs, but they are very sincere, extremely kind-hearted. Such people when they face Sahaja Yoga, immediately they get their vibrations. They are not people who are worried about money, or they are worried about the gross things of life, or achievements that are so stupid. Such people may exist as very ordinary people; they need not be at the helm of affairs [and] mostly they are not, because they are not ambitious. They do not want much success in life. They don’t see any point in being very successful. They might be something very ordinary. They might be doing something very important also. But in their life, those who come in contact with them, remember that: “Yes! There was a life or there is a life. Definitely there is a spark.”

Because such a person being so subtle does not assert. Such a person cannot be very dominating, assertive, argumentative. Such a person is quieter: his attention recedes from all quarrels and all squabbles of life. But such a person has a great position in the domain of God. That you have seen, how in Sahaja Yoga suddenly you find people manifesting their divinity. Maybe such a person is too naïve for all practical purposes. He might have been cheated, might have been misled by some horrible people who try to exploit his seeking, but still it remains.

This element suddenly gets ignited in Sahaja Yoga and for such a person this is the most important thing: is to feel that Being which always kept him away from all the rest of the ideologies and ‘great’ things and have always given him strength and confidence and joy. He sees that clearly in Sahaj Yog. He adheres to it. And when he nourishes it, he’s amazed that he has found himself. Then it becomes his life.

There are thousands and thousands of people everywhere. I say ‘thousands’, I don’t say ‘millions’. I am sorry, because they are not in millions. I am sorry for that. I wish they were. They could be counted in thousands only: maybe twenty-one thousand, altogether, of that quality. There won’t be millions. But they will be making millions later on. They have to be a few! These are people of special calibre as I said.

But it is necessary that everybody must be given Self-realisation, every seed must be germinated. But how many would sprout into the trees and would render fruit is a different point altogether. First and foremost thing is that, first let them all be germinated. In due course, all those would come back. But some would prosper into their complete manifestation, in their full bloom in a very short time, and that’s what matters the most.

The Divine is not interested in useless people, It is interested in that special calibre. As I have told you: such a person may not be at all rich, may be absolutely poor. That doesn’t mean that rich cannot be so! [They] can be very rich also. The outward appearances and status and all these denominations do not matter at all. I am talking of the spark inside.

They can be called as gentlemen, in simple words, or if she is [female], a lady . A serene dignity manifests through their being. Sometimes it happens with their lives, also, that they find it very difficult to keep to the norms of the mad world, and they may be a little cynical sometimes, could be. But cynicism is not that subtlety, but they may appear to people a little cynical. But they have to be very delightful and extremely cheerful people. They cannot be morose, sad, emitting unhappiness all around, and big bores with a B capital and O capital, R and E, all capital. That cannot be possible. They are extremely enjoyable and magnetic and dynamic. They are complete in themselves because they feel their subtlety, they live on that. Still their seeking is there, and the meaning they try to find to their own being. And they want to identify their subtlety with something that is universal.

In their expression in any field that they are, they appeal to the Universal Being within every one of us. Maybe, they may not get a Nobel Prize, but [they have] a personality that appeals, that emits that kind of congenial behaviour. Now if somebody is a person who is absolutely satanic, he will abhor such a person, possibly. But this does not concern to the subtler being because he is at a level which is not tarnished by gross attacks. That is what one has to recognise in oneself and one should feel very proud and fortunate that that exists within us.

No more one has to feel lonely, because now we are so many of us, of the same creed and the same type. And so many of us who have found out what is the reason, what expresses it, what manifests it within us, what are the Deities that govern this subtlety within us: what you may call the archetype images; archetype images are there which are real, not imaginary, within us. And all these discoveries, then make you feel confident of all these vague subtleties you have been enjoying so far.

A long time back, I had given a simile like this: that a mother bird puts the little child, or you can call, the baby bird, away from her. And the baby bird feels the mother’s warmth, and she wants that. And she is calling for the mother. That calling itself is the last thing it knows of. That’s the highest thing for the baby bird, nothing else matters. You may give anything to the baby bird [but] it won’t be happy, it needs that. It needs that warmth, that love. And then it expresses itself by spreading its tiny little wings around and tries to hop and to express it. And then out of complete joy of its hopping, the mother bird herself comes down and engulfs that child into the wings, giving all the warmth necessary.

It is that happening within us which takes place when the Kundalini rises. The Kundalini is the part of that warmth within us, of that compassion. It’s a part of that beauty, it’s the part of that desire. Desire…

What’s the matter? The door is open or not. Come in, come in! They are waiting because they [don’t want to disturb].

What’s the matter?

Yogi: Sorry we’re late Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: No, it’s all right. Come in!

So the desire of God is placed within us as Kundalini. And when all the external desires dim out within us and the real desire to be one with the Almighty remains, the Kundalini can rise spontaneously.

That has happened to few people, very few people: you can say like Buddha, Mahavira. These people were human beings and they achieved godliness: not by forcing yourself to get rid of your desires, but through wisdom, understanding that, “This is stupidity, this is foolishness. Where am I going?” Just the wisdom acting. Not a rational understanding, but the being itself rejecting.  Such stages are achieved through one’s own evolutionary forces. Also, there are so many other happenings, or the other supports, which bring forth this kind of spontaneous rising of the Kundalini.

There is somebody who wants to comes and see me because he said, “Mother you are an authority on Kundalini and there are many books written about Kundalini, and I have to write a criticism: that the Kundalini, when she rises, you start jumping and when she rises she gives you heat, or you burn off yourself or you jump through the roof or something like that.” All sorts of horrifying things and nobody wants to listen to anything about Kundalini. If you read those books, you’ll be really frightened. I think it is absolutely satanic. And he wants to know about the ‘authentic description’ of Kundalini. And I told him that, “These books, all of them, should be thrown away into the sea! Because they are written by people who have had no experience of Kundalini, of any kind.” Because they were people who must have been doing some sort of an ‘adventure’ somewhere. Like some people believe that even finding of God is another job: if you have no job, better find God, at least He might help you to survive!

Some people do believe that instead of sitting idle, why not try to find God, would be a good idea. And when such a thing happens and they venture into the search of God then, first, they are hit by The Guard of Holiness. Because they are not entitled, they are not holy, they have no protocol about God Almighty, they have no respect, they are just doing it because they are ego-oriented, they want to have another ego-trip and they want to become ‘great explorers’ of Kundalini. But you cannot do it. You have to have proper protocol.

They lack all humility, all holiness, righteousness and all that is needed, to ask the help of the Kundalini. And they are hit by the first Deity, which sits in the triangular bone, which they can also see sometimes — they have seen him, with a temper; in red colour, they call it or maybe in orange colour.

Let him come, there’s somebody waiting there.

This Deity is a very powerful Deity, and it is the wisest Deity, because it is the Deity which gives us wisdom. You need not argue with the gentleman: It knows you out and out. It knows every bit of you. If you tell some story, It would say, “All right, I have heard all this story before, now will you please keep to yourself!” It understands how genuine you are, how truthful you are. And this Deity is the one which has given these bad experiences to these Kundalini seekers and writers of Kundalini.

It’s a sad thing that a thief comes to the town and he’s caught up by the police, he’s put in the jail, and when he goes back to the village, he tells them, “Oh God! Terrible! Never go to the city! They catch hold of you, put you in the jail, don’t give you food to eat, and then you cannot meet anyone for three years, and then they send you back!” And [so] everybody is frightened of going to the city. It is like that.

Or the thief who goes to the bank from the back door, or sometimes they dig a tunnel or something like that: great people in this world, you know, they have time to do all kinds of nonsensical things, to dig a tunnel to get some gold pieces, or something and dig another tunnel to go to the jail directly. So, these stupid people, when they try to do all these gross things, like going to a bank through the back door and are caught up; if you go and ask them their experiences, they say, “Oh horrible experience! Never go near the bank! You don’t put your money there, no, not at all!” You ask them, “Why, what’s the matter?” They say, “No they catch hold of you! You know, terrible people in that bank!”

They could even go further with it to warn you. If they are cunning, they may come by the front door and tell you, “Why go and put money in the bank, you give it to me: I can look after it better. It’s a better idea! And if you want, I can give you to twenty percent more than the bank does!” And if you trust their cunning faces, you just hand over the money and you are lost and the bank is lost to you. And then you may say that, “What is this bank?” In front of the bank there are people standing like this. What are these religions after all? What are these gurus in the name of God, standing in the front door, trying to rob others? What sort of a God is this? So you start blaming the bank for the thieves who have cheated you. You must learn to separate both. This discretion is important even when you try to know about Kundalini, that Kundalini is the desire of God to bestow upon you His kingdom. The prince has to become the king. And such a beautiful desire cannot be gross, cannot be ugly, cannot be painful, cannot be troublesome, cannot be hideous and heinous.

Once you understand this, then you will respect your Kundalini. She is your Mother because She is going to give you your second birth. And She has been with you for ages, in so many lives, just waiting for this great time when She is going to give you your Realisation.

I am telling you this because I know how beautiful She is. So many have really tortured Her, have frozen Her, made Her into a stone by cursing Her but still She is breathing feebly, with the hope that a day may come when She may be able to give you what She has been living for. This is Kundalini. This is Kundalini awakening.

We have to give up our gross understanding of Kundalini. Like you would see in Sahaja Yoga when you will be coming, you have seen it all your life — and you will see it more — that so many of them just come to me for getting all right in health, only for that. “I have got a back pain.” “I have got a stomach trouble.” “I have got arthritis,” or, “I have got diabetes.” There’s nothing that is not there, and “I am sure you will cure me!”

It’s quite a queer situation! Because the request that I should cure is all right, but what is the right for this request? Why do you want that Divine should cure you? For what? For what purpose? If Divine has to only cure people, It would open lots of hospitals and get some Nobel Prize or something. But it is not the desire of Divine to go on curing people. It would be stupid to just cure people who are good for nothing, useless, absolutely useless, thoroughly wasted. Why should It work [like this]? It has intelligence. It has wisdom. Is It going to waste Its energy on curing people who are good for nothing, useless? Are you going to clean this lamp if you cannot put any light in it? If you have no utility, in the Divine sense, why should Divine cure you?

So all those who believe, “Oh Mother, you must cure people,” and that you should cure people, must know that all this is the work of Kundalini when She rises: She nourishes you, She cleanses you, because in this being of yours, God Himself is going to manifest, because this temple of your body is to be cleansed, because God has to enter into it. That’s why the Divine respects and cleanses you and helps you. Even it may help yours, means say a mother is there and her child is not all right, she’s worried, so the Divine may cure the child, just to give peace to the mother who is going to manifest God’s powers. Because God’s power is the integrated power of all the powers.

You can see here, on the left hand side: all the desires are manifested; the power of desire. That means all the desires you have can be fulfilled and blessed by this power. Can you believe it? It has the power to fulfil all your desires, but after Realisation, not before that.

And after Realisation, your priorities change and your desires become different. Then you do not ask for money or for children, or something like that but you start asking for something of a very eternal nature. The priorities change. You start seeing your desire in a different aspect because light has come now.

For example, in the darkness when you are walking, you find that there’s a big black band in front of you, you can’t walk, so you desire, “Oh this band should be removed!” But when the light comes in you find there’s no band, nothing! It’s all open for you. So your desire is that you should be able to see everything. The whole priority changes.

So this Left Side has the power to fulfil all your desires. And the Right Side, where you see this yellow line, which looks so slender, has the power to act, to fulfil all your desires and the desires of God.

Here I take you a little subtler: What are these acting powers? Tremendous! For example, this side is manifesting all the five elements. All the five elements await your asking. You see this fire? You ask this fire, “Take away my problem!” It takes away. You have seen it. Water element: you go to the sea, and just go and stand in the sea, after Realisation. You find the whole thing is sucked in.

The Mother Earth sucks all your problems. It’s so fantastic. I was in Kuala Lumpur, you may write to him and find out. He was the speaker of the assembly: [I was] at his residence, and there were at least thousand people. And sixty percent were sick, and forty were attending to them. I was alone: no Sahaja Yogi, nothing. Luckily, they had a big garden and it was quite warm day. I said, “All right, let’s go in the garden!” I made them sit in the garden and I asked the Mother Earth: I said, “You better now do the job! And I am sitting down.” And everybody started feeling better. One thing I had never before seen being cured was this polio. And a little boy, about eight years of age was sitting on the ground: his parents had brought him on their back and put him down there. He just got up and started walking! And the parents suddenly realised he’s missing: “Where is he gone?” And he was running in the garden! It’s a fact! 

Some blind started seeing things. It’s most remarkable. You may write to him, I will give you his address. It’s a fact, it happened. And for everyone the whole miracle was so simple that they took it for granted; they didn’t find that there was anything so fantastic: “After all Mother is here, so it has to work out!” They did not rationalise it or anything — took it for granted. And even today, if I go there, this may happen.

All the elements are waiting for your orders. So the great angels on the left hand side communicate to the right hand side angels: all the angels of the world. Though it may sound fantastic to many, but they exist, and you have to just ask their help. That is what is a mantra: is the awakened calling, or you can say, calling which has meaning. For example: a policeman blows his whistle, it has a meaning, but anybody else starts whistling, people will put him in the jail. In the same way, the mantra is the authority which is applied with the word. And with this you can awaken all these forces within you. They are so tremendous that I’ll take at least seven lectures to describe [and] which I will describe some time; of which you are aware already, most of you: how they work and how they help you.

Even we take them for granted, Sahaja Yogis, because if you notice in life, has one great mystery, I don’t know if you are aware of that mystery: that whatever fantastic we get, somehow or other, we get it in such a way that we take it for granted. It’s very sweet, isn’t it? Supposing every time we get a shock or we get frightened, and we say, “Oh God!” We would become neurotic, or funny people. But the way it settles down within us like a leaf falling from the tree and drying out and just touches the ground softly, and the ground also takes it for granted. In the same way, all this we take for granted. For example, our eyes, our nose, our forehead, everything we take for granted, our human bearing, everything we take it for granted. In the same way we take even Sahaj Yog for granted: and that’s the best way.

But do we take it for granted, the way we take our being for granted? Is the question.

For example, we take it for granted our hand: so if I have to lift my purse, I lift my hand, like this. When we take Sahaja Yoga for granted, do we use our vibrations for everything? Because now in our vibratory awareness, if we have taken it for granted, we should completely stand in it and work it out. I mean, I do that way.

To me everything is nothing but vibrations. Everything I do is nothing but vibrations. All my movements and everything is nothing but vibrations.

I take for granted Myself very well. I wish you could take for granted all that is within you, the way we take [other things] for granted. Say, I give you a television and you just take it and you put it to the mains and you see the thing. You do not jump and say, “Oh God, look at the miracle! Imagine!” Nothing, you just take it for granted. Anything: computer or any marvellous thing that you see — you take it for granted.

In the same way, maybe in the beginning one feels, “How is it possible?” One may start thinking like that for a while. Too much thinking is also not good, because then you are not take it for granted. But afterwards, you must use it left and right! Just try! You are empowered. Now your television is open. It has started working. You are a great instrument and created [over] thousands of years with such care. You do not know what forces have been used: how delicately and how dynamically. You have no idea as to how all the stars and all the heavens are moved up and down to create this beautiful being that is the human personality. You have no idea of that. And now, when Sahaj Yoga takes place, also you must know that Sahaj Yoga’s working has been worked out in a very dynamic manner.

There are tremendous subtle forces which are working it out. You cannot make your Kundalini pulsate without something special happening there. Just think of a remote control that works out your Kundalini! Just think of it! There must be a tremendous mechanism!

Why I say, take it for granted [is] because if you try first to open all your remote controls and see for yourself and then breaking all of them, you start starting your television, you will find the whole thing is finished and you have a headache, and you don’t want to see anything. That’s what happens to Sahaj Yogis, specially in the West, because as soon as they get their Realisation they go home and make a nice dissection by thinking about it. They didn’t get Realisation by thinking! It’s a simple thing! And then they go back. And then after seven months they come back and say, “Mother I have been to you seven months back, now I think I was wrong.” So I say: why lose those seven months?

Today I hope you all will feel our subtleties flowering. Let us take ourselves down to those subtle points which we respected and the Kundalini will nourish it — the attention.

Wherever your attention goes now, this attention is enlightened attention.

Today I received a letter from Australia, somebody has written, “Mother, we had sent you a picture of someone, husband and wife, and they are better since you gave them bandhan.” And they were very serious patients. And they are really better. But I did nothing! Really I don’t do anything. I just looked at the photograph, that’s all. I didn’t even give bandhan, you know, to be very frank. I just looked at it, that’s all. I didn’t think, I just looked at it, and it worked.

Really I don’t do anything! You people thank me for nothing at all, you know. When you don’t do anything and people thank you, you don’t know what to say so you go on saying, “All right, thank you for thanking!” (laughing)

So again, thank you for being here. And we’ll have some meditation. I hope we’ll touch some deeper stratas within yourselves.

May God bless you all!

You have come for the first time both of you? You have been once before? What about you?

Lady: It’s my first time.

Shri Mataji: First time? Good. Are you feeling the cool breeze?

Seeker: Yes.

Shri Mataji: All right, so you haven’t lost it!

And what about you, are you feeling the cool breeze in the hand?

Seeker: No

Shri Mataji: Not yet? All right, it will work out, it will work out. What about you? Are you feeling the cool breeze? No?

How are you?

Yogi: Feeling the cool breeze Mother.

Shri Mataji: Well good! Good! Good!

Are you all right? Good.What about you?

Lady: I don’t feel today.

Shri Mataji: You are thinking! Now, please! Please!

You see, thinking stops it. How? Between the two thoughts — for example, a thought rises and falls off, and another thought rises and falls off — between these two thoughts there is a little gap, that gap has expanded. For example, the thought that was, is the past and that is going to come is the future. In between is the space called as vilamba. And when you start thinking about it you jump onto the cusp of these thoughts. You are beyond thought. An Indian will understand it faster, because it’s called as Nirvichar Samadhi: is the state where you become thoughtlessly aware. They know that that’s what it is. You cannot think about it, because rationality is a limited thing. So you have to jump into the space. When you are in the space then you are not in the capsule. But if you are in the capsule you are not in the space.

Better now?

Lady: Yes.

Shri Mataji: See how it works. Even your problems, I mean, I have given big lectures on this, how to solve your problems, in your thoughtless awareness. That’s the mouth, that’s the mouth where you have to put the problem in, and it works in your thoughtless awareness. It’s the most precious thing, is to keep it up.

Are you getting now cool breeze?

Correct.

What about you, not yet? Now watch me here. Are you thinking still? All right, you watch me without thinking. That’s another way you can do it. My face is such a funny thing that if you watch it for a long time, you will have no thoughts! Just it is something very funny you know! Today it happened: I went to the tailor and he just looked at me and he didn’t know what he was trying to do. And my husband said, “Is he stunned or what happened?” (laughter)

Now watch me without thinking!

Better! See! This is the face! This is needed. What am I to do? I mean, this is the problem with me. I don’t know how to explain myself!

Aap ka aa rahe thanda? Thik hai. (Hindi: Are you getting cool? Good!)

How are you now? Better? Everyday you will be better and better and better.

How are you?

Lady: A bit better. Not so good as yesterday. I felt a lot of cool breeze yesterday but not so much today.

Shri Mataji: So, that means you are going down a little. All right? So now keep it up.

You see, it is like a washing machine, I can say. It goes round and round, a little bit, for cleansing. All right?

They call it Mahamaya. They call it “The Great Illusion”. Mother is a great illusion, because She puts us into illusion. I do not! We tell God, “Lead us not into temptation.” Now why will He take you to temptation? But you do go. So you tell God that, “You keep us away from that!” That’s all you tell God: that, “You keep us away from thinking!” And it works. Better?

Your face looks different immediately. Keep it up!

Now all right. Good, once it clicks! But you must come every Monday. See how people have gone up! How many people they are giving Realisation? All right?

You must come, this is the most pleasurable thing! You don’t know. It is little bit you have to develop the taste. Because you are used to the gross stuff, you see. Like somebody who is used to wines cannot give up. But once the wine from within starts pouring in, you just don’t want it!

Better.

Somebody has come I believe.

Hmmm! He’s better now. All right?

What’s happened Gavin?

I see that so clear! Why? You’ve been having a holiday or what? It’s horrible, absolutely! Very badly caught up! What’s the matter? You had a bad cold? Come here! I have never seen you being caught that much. You had exposed yourself I think [it was] the sunning or what happened? Terrible!

Better?

Be careful! You see, these days it’s very sunny, looks sunny, but maybe…You have to look after yourself. This country is full of this problem.

Now better.

What’s it? Vishuddhi. It rises from Vishuddhi to this. Haa! Better now. You sit or a while and it will work out in the…You see it rises from the Vishuddhi to the. I think you caught cold very badly. What happened?

Gavin Brown: I don’t know.

Shri Mataji: I think you put your hand here. Sit down! Be careful.

Hmm! Better. Somebody with cold must have come or something you see, or the hay fever is there.

Gavin Brown: Might be that.

Shri Mataji: From Right Nabhi: it’s on the right hand side the problem is.

How are you? Good!

Now close your eyes, close.

You put your hand here, the right, and the left there to work out the Vishuddhi. Right Nabhi also. Is it your liver coming up or what?

Gavin Brown: I don’t think so.

Shri Mataji: Quite a lot eh?

Gavin Brown: Hmm.

Shri Mataji: All right, move from the left more, from the left. Keep your eyes shut and enjoy your Self, enjoy your Self. Just don’t think. Just don’t think. Just enjoy your Self. Don’t think. Don’t think.

Hmm! Better.

Where is it Mark? Whole Left?

Better now? Improving? Heart?

Better. Keep your eyes shut! Enjoy your Self. You are all going down into your Self. Just allow it. Relax, relax. Just relax. Don’t think about anything just relax.

You are working it out. Now just relax. Don’t think.

Better now. Tremendous! Haa?  Giving out.

Better. Now, better now?

Now are you feeling? Better? Losing again? You are losing again? What? Come up, come here. Sit down. Sit down. See your liver comes back again: still treating your liver patients there is it? Come forward, come forward. I’ll have to put my foot on your liver. Now just see how stone-like it has become. See now, what else do you expect but heat?

See? That’s what it is. Now better?

Somebody’s catching on the Back Agnya.

Hmm!

Gavin Brown: It’s moving. It’s moving now.

Shri Mataji: Better? Much better now. Sorry I have to use my feet but they are very powerful you know. For physical problems they are better than my hands are. Poor things, they go on working morning till evening!

Press it hard! Better!

Still you are working with the liver patients are they?

Doctor: Hmm.

Shri Mataji: What do you do about them? What treatments do you give for liver patients in the hospitals?

Doctor: Special drugs.

Shri Mataji: What drugs?

Doctor: Depends what the problem is with the liver.

Shri Mataji: But still what drugs normally you use?

Doctor: The main things they use are for someone who is alcoholic and they start to bleed.

Shri Mataji: Alcohol?

Doctor: They have alcoholic cirrhosis and they bleed and they vomit blood.

Shri Mataji: Really? That serious?

Doctor: So we have special drugs to help stop that.

Shri Mataji: Just look at this! Despite that, nobody publishes these things. You know, the other day in a very so-called important dinner table, there was a big argument [that] was on that, in France, the pubs are open all the time, while here they open very late, so people are very unhappy that you are not sufficiently alcoholic! A big discussion is on. Let them see these photographs! Why not show them how people vomit blood and how people do these things. It would be a good idea.

And the food they eat do they?

Doctor: Well, there’s so many different problems we have with the liver. Say, they are alcoholic then they have intravenous therapy.

Shri Mataji: They cannot eat the food? They vomit?

Doctor: So they put special tubes down them to stop them vomiting, and then they give them blood because they are losing so much.

(End of recording)