Where does the Truth lie?

Caxton Hall, London (England)

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Where does the Truth lie? Caxton Hall, London (UK), 6 July 1981.

How many are new today? I am sure somebody must have spoken before, no?


You all have been seeking and seeking the Truth about yourself. Where does the Truth lie? When are we the most Truthful people? Where, at what point we cannot deceive whatever we may try? When it is heartfelt, when it is our heart’s desire, then we always try to go ahead with it but it has to be heart’s desire not the rationality, not the brain’s desire. Because you can make your brain understand. Your intelligence can be compromised. Whatever is heartfelt you want to do it. You cannot be satisfied without doing it.

So, in the heart lies the Truth. That is the Spirit that lies in your heart. But that is not in our conscious mind. We do not know how it manifests. We have heard that it is eternal, indestructible, is the source of joy and is the attention of God, that’s what we have heard. All such things which are preached may be regarded as hearsays. People might say, “What’s the proof that there is a Spirit in our heart.” Thank God, people have discovered the heart at least if not the Spirit! How are we to believe that there is Spirit? That we have a dimension which is beyond this human dimension? Which is the dimension of the Spirit, the spiritual dimension, by which we can feel the all pervading power of Divine love; is all being told to us, by all the priests of all the religions.

Now where is that Spirit? Whether it resides in the heart or where? How are we to know? How are we to believe? Or are we to deny all those people? Did they tell us lies about it? They may say you imagine, now your awareness is that of the Spirit. By imagination you are not there, it’s just an imagination. Suddenly you find it was just a bubble and whole thing has burst off. So today the questioning mind comes to a point, to inquire, is there something called Spirit that we have to identify with. This inquiry itself is a seeking because you also do not know what is the meaning of your life? You also do not know why you were made a human being? What was the need for the nature to create human beings on this earth? Why they took so much time to create it, evolve us to this stage where we are called as human beings. Nobody asked the question why, the scientist do not. Also the people who are so called religious, do not ask the question why. They just believed in it, have faith, have faith, faith is the only way you can go to God. Blind faith, that’s a good consolation, just a consolation for the heart, oh, I have faith in this and this. But tomorrow our children will ask, though they are already asking. What is all this going about? Why you are wasting your time and our time in all this useless things. And they are going to ask is there any Truth in, what you are saying, is there God?

So long time back people decided, forget God, turn your back, that question is a mystery, forget it. Lets start something else, so they started science, this that. Science is nothing but whatever is there you just say, with these gross eyes human eyes you see, now a hall like this, and a carpet and all that you see whatever you see you just say this is it, this is it. The laws of science are also, whatever they see, experimented, whatever is discovered because it exists. So whatever they have discovered it is the science. But there may be something they have not been able to discover something beyond and could be always, because every theory they put up is challenged, every new thought they put in is challenged, even whatever are accepted as Newton laws and all that are challenged today.

So everything is challenged and human beings are just confused, they can’t understand, whether there is some Truth in it or not. In this [question?] era of confusion seekers are born these are the seekers of the Truth. It’s a rare category. It used to be very rare before, not in this age of course. In this age there are many, they are really seekers. Of course, some could be, just out of the fashion, are seekers because everybody is a seeker all right, everybody is a hippy I become hippy. They are all going on those skates; let me also buy some skates, just like that you see. But some are really seekers, they may do some guru shopping they may go round. They may have little fun here and there. They may try to go to places where their ego is pampered and they may like to spend some money if they have some extra money inherited or something like putting it on a horse they may put it for their spiritual life. Anything is possible.

But one has to understand why are we seeking? I don’t know why, of course, because we do not know the meaning of our life. But may be that we have evolved to this state and we have to evolve to some higher state. Like the fishes who were in the sea but quite happy. But one or two of them started seeking something else so they came out of the sea and started seeking. And they become turtles or reptiles and the evolution started moving further. We have not yet reached the epitome or we say the climax of our evolution because we do not know our meaning. For example now this instrument as it is you see. To a lay person like Me it will be difficult to guess what it is for and even to a person who knows what it is, will be difficult to play if he does not know and a person, who also knows how to play, will be difficult to play if it is not connected to the mains.

So we can say there are people of four types in this world, out of them the seekers are the one who are just ready to be connected to the mains. They are a type. As soon as they are connected to the mains, they start manifesting very well. Immediately they start understanding Sahaja yoga. Sahaja, saha means “with”, ja means “born”, is born with you. This right to be in union with God, that is yoga, is born with you and this Sahaja, this spontaneous happening takes place more in a seeker than in a non-seeker. The one who knows how to play this instrument is the one who can connect, the second one is the one who wants to know how to play it, will be the first to know how to play it. But those who do not want who are not interested, those who just come to show off, those who are not seekers, they may be some big people, may be kings and queens and may be anything. They might be priest, they might be anything but those who do not want to know about their Spirit are difficult, are extremely difficult, it’s a headache.

Sometimes they feel they are going to oblige Sahaja yoga, by coming to Sahaja yoga. It is just the other way round Sahaja yoga is a very receding force, it judges you very much. This evolution takes place in people who want to know, who want to get into it. Imagine of the fishes who came out of the water, they can’t live without water. To come out of water and to find new ways of life, new understanding of the soil, was very difficult. Though Sahaja yoga is not difficult at all.

Once you get your realisation, once the Kundalini rises, when she pierces your fontanel bone, when you get your baptism, when it passes through various chakras and enlightens your different centres you get all the blessings of this power within you which is resting, sleeping, which you can awaken and use it. When this power rises, She cools you down completely, She is so blissful. She is compassion, She forgives. There are people who think oh Mother, we have committed so many sins. It’s nothing. She just forgives. Forgiving is her nature. She has to forgive. She finds her own way. She enlightens all the chakras by itself, its your own mother sleeping for days together, years together, ages together, lives together and She rises, She rises and She pierces this area and you become a different person all together, like an egg becoming a bird you become a bird your awareness is different. Bird has a different awareness from an egg’s awareness and that is the real second birth, is not that you just certify yourself oh, I am born again there are people who are going around, we are born again. I said who says so, yes we are but how? What is the proof that you are born again?

If you are going to live with myths, if you are going to live with unTruth, you can go ahead. Nobody can stop you, your freedom, and your freedom to do what you like whatever things you want to do you can do it and learn from your mistakes, errors. Nobody can stop. That’s your freedom, once granted is granted forever. I mean if somebody wants to take two running jump and go to hell, how can you stop. You cannot stop it. Its only you, when you get your realisation, then you know that where is the spirit.

You know that you are the spirit, you know it within yourself and not just the rational mind tells you, oh I am the Spirit just to believe I am the spirit. It’s not that, but you start manifesting your Spirit and manifestation of the Spirit gives you complete enlightenment within because you can feel your centres on your fingers. Normally you don’t feel, you don’t know what centres you have. Even a child can feel the centres on the fingers. Even the person who cannot speak who is deaf can feel these centres. All these seven felt centres, you can feel not only of your own but of others. As you grow in your knowledge how to use this new power then you can cure others of their various problems of the chakras and you can give them realisation too. You can do it.

It’s your own Spirit that is going to work. It is the manifestation of your own spirit. Then you know the knowledge, you know the Truth embodying all the Truths is one Truth is that you are instrument of God and the power of Divine love start flowing through you and you can know what is that power through feeling it, in your conscious mind, not only that but you can manoeuvre it, you can master it. This is what one has to expect of self realisation not a certificate, not just a book, not just a receipt that I have paid so many pounds to someone. It is the certificate that you have to give yourself very truthfully. Your own Truthfulness is challenging Sahaja yoga. You cannot lie.

When you get your realisation you do feel and if you do not get it you just do not get it. Nobody can force realisation on you, one can help. For example now there are so many Sahaja yogis today here sitting, they are beautiful people, they are just, outwardly just like you. But from their hand this power is flowing and they know how to manoeuvre, how to give power to your aura, to your Kundalini to invite Her because they are enlightened ones and the enlighten ones can enlighten the unenlightened ones. And once the unenlightened are also enlightened they can do the same thing to others after learning the method how to do. But before that, you are naïve; you do not know anything of God. So far whatever you have known, if it was of any value you would have been there. But you do not know and one should not feel bad about it. Because we are born like that, we are to be born again. There is nothing wrong in being born as human being and then to be born again. Only human beings can be born again, not animals. So there is nothing to feel bad about it. Some people get hurt when they find others Sahaja yogis are working on you. But tomorrow the same Sahaja yogis, you will be amazed, will be helping you very much to sustain your realisation and then you will become a Sahaja yogi and you will start doing it. And then the whole priorities will change because the joy of your Spirit is so great, is so tremendous that you would not like to lose it and it flows through your fingers like cool breeze and that’s the indication that you are all right and Spirit is manifesting. But when you displease the Spirit you will immediately know that your vibrations have stopped. Any question, any fundamental question like is there God if you ask immediately the vibrations will start coming with great power, showing that yes, there is God.

Your computer start working, it is so amazing, it is so amazing because you do not know that you are a computer. It would be like a say television set, suddenly brought to some villagers and you start it. They say what, it looks like a box, ordinary box. What is starting there? Is some pictures have started coming into it? In the same way you are made that way specially, by God almighty if you want I will call it nature and now you have become that. So becoming is the main point in the Sahaja yoga, not just lecturing, talking about it. You may hear all my lectures there are, I don’t know how many, hundred’s. You may do anything you like, nothing will go into your head or into your heart unless and until you have realisation. It can only mean to you that, yes there is way of doing it and all that. But unless and until you have actualised it, it is useless. Everything is useless for Me. So it is the actualisation it is the real happening one should ask Me and if it happens to you, you should know that God has blessed you specially.

There are very few people in this world I found when I was born who were realised souls and today there are so many. They speak the same language, they talk the same language and they understand what it is because now they are exposed to the new laws of divinity the Divine laws of God’s kingdom. They are very different from what we know. Unless and until you evolve into that new state, you cannot understand God. You have to know yourself to know the God. It’s like the eyes that have to open, to see the colors. In the same way your Spirit has to come into your conscious mind so that you know God, in your conscious mind.

I would like you people to ask Me some questions, the new people who have come and old people. If there are some questions I would like to answer. But you see it’s such a big subject and every time I have to go with the introduction. I thought somebody must have given you introduction. But it doesn’t matter there is book which you can read and find out yourself. But is best to know is to have it. What can one do? [Some conversation behind]good idea. You got realisation last time. The problem is, it’s a collective happening. Many people have to get realisation and it’s not individualistic, see we are all part and parcel of the whole, see so if one finger is enlightened, that finger should try to enlighten others. That is the best way, best way because once this finger tries that, it gets its power more. Why should God give power to any one who just wants to keep it to himself, the power increases as you start giving it to others. Like when you open one door no air will come in, but if you open the other door the circulation starts. In the same way when you start giving it to others, start raising the Kundalini, right now you can start. Just don’t be afraid, you can do it. You will find immediately inside you will be coming up. Those who try to be exclusive and try to be something great by doing everything at home and especially for myself they are no where. I find such people have horrible drawbacks, mix up with the other people, share it, share it all the time and give realisation to others.

Those who have given realisation to others have come up very much. Those who think of others being realised, come up much faster than the people who sit at home and meditate for five hours. There is no need to meditate like that. At the most just to cleanse your self you can spend about ten fifteen minutes. But there are many people whose attention is only on themselves I must cleanse, I must cleanse I must do this, such people do not get very far in Sahaja yoga. Those people who try to do it for others, talk to other people, work out much better.

I would say Australians have done much better than English have done. It may be because of their temperaments, may be they are not such closed people you see. For example they have their friends and there is no taboo on discussing religion with friends as it is in England. I think in England nobody discusses religion. They will discuss the pub and all nonsense and all filth, but not the religion. They are not suppose to, in etiquettes you see, it is prohibited I think. So naturally there is taboo and it leads you nowhere because you can’t talk to, Sahaja yoga to your friends, so who are there who are your friends. If they come to your house, you can ask them what is the new wines, there are in the market or something such an important thing, you know, about they will talk. But you can’t talk about religion or your experiences of Sahaja yoga that’s the problem, it’s regarded as bad manners.

And now the question is that, these things are to be shared. That’s why the Sahaja yoga you can only talk among Sahaja yogis, it circulates among Sahaja yogis. Nobody wants to hear about it. Even if you try to tell them they say oh don’t tell us that we are not interested. It’s a very funny thing, the other day I met the gentleman who has divorced his wife and she got her realisation somewhere and he got realisation somewhere and both of them met in a group. She said how are you here and he said how are you here, see we both got realisation. She said but you never told me about this. He said I didn’t want to discuss the religion. So she said I also got realisation I didn’t want to discuss religion and ultimately they discussed their divorce and had a divorced. You see if they had just told them that both of them are realised and they would have never divorced, because he thought this lady is not a seeker so he divorced her, she thought he was not. Even if they had felt each others vibrations they would be all right to know but she got her realisation in another place and he got realisation in another place and they never knew that both are realised people on the same [plate or date?]. He thought she was very materialistic and she thought that he was very materialistic. And then there was misunderstanding about it and they are not to discuss, one should not say these things. Naturally everything ended up in a divorce and now they want to marry again.

This is the one of the reason why in this country I think Sahaja yoga doesn’t work out because you are not supposed to tell anyone. At the most you may tell it to your children, may be I don’t know your mother father sometimes. And all such people who have tried have been able to bring their relations here. But it’s only relations, not in friends. With friends you are not suppose to say anything. This is funny thing, isn’t it? This is the society what to do now I hope gradually it will change, when people will know about these things. And in Australia what they do is to, they have program for seven days. It is very interesting I have got this from there. In the ashram they have seven days program and out of this one day they have a public program on this day every Sahaja yogi suppose to bring four more. He is not allowed to come unless and until brings four more that day and you have to bring four more you cannot just come to Mothers program and they can’t listen to My tapes or anything unless and until they bring four more.

But it is possible in Australia because I found the people much more open you see and they are. I mean here because of the climate may be or we are frightened of others whatever it is. There are certain taboos like etiquettes I think they don’t believe much in etiquettes perhaps. Like here there was a announcement that now you need not to do courtesy because of tight clothes so you can just bow. See something like that may turn up now that you can discuss about seeking, if not about religion I hope so. And this may be one of the reason people just can’t talk about it. But still who so ever whom you know, you should try to tell them that I have an experience. I met such and such person and this and that, immediately he will surprise your vibrations will go on, which is like this, that bigger the room the bigger is the light provided for. If it is smaller room than we don’t put the big light, isn’t it? In the same way if you have a wider thing, there is a one gentleman in India I told you that he gave realisation to ten thousand people. I must say that in Cambridge, Hillary and James have given realisation to so many people, so many people. It’s interesting because there are Chileans people you see and the Chileans they don’t believe in such etiquettes you see. So it has worked with them. May be one day its work out here then we will talk to others. So this is the only way you can really grow.

Oh of course it is very important. No that’s true you have to cleanse yourself also. There is a way and method you see this. I must circulate that, it’s a beautiful thing they have written down these Australian how they cleanse themselves, how they clear out there chakras. That it is very important. Of course you have to clean. Say supposing you clean your car everyday and you don’t move out. After sometime it will become a junk. It’s like that. See you are cleaning yourself for what, what is the problem. Every day we are cleaning, say the house and everything and not even a rat comes in and what’s the use of such a house. If he clean all the lamps it should give light otherwise what’s the use of cleaning. It must have a purpose.

You must have a purpose. Otherwise some people are just meditating, meditating for what I just don’t understand, why are they meditating for what. In all these gurus, they just say oh you go home and meditate. But do what. Next time bring all the money to me and again you go home and meditate. Then if money is finished, now sell your house bring all the money to me and meditate. Then that is done sell your car sell everything, you stand on the streets and meditate. This is not the way. It has become a sort of a pass time for people instead of going to pubs, may be it is expensive better meditate. Its something like that you know. It has no meaning to this meditation. Meditation is that you have to be in meditation when you see that these centres are in problem, you cleanse them understandingly, purify them and then use it for a purpose of giving it to others. And once you start doing it, it works better. Your instrument works much, much better. It’s a dual way of doing things. All right?

[INAUDIBLE] of course. Minimum of minimum,  No I wouldn’t say that, you see realisation is that it’s a first is a linear movement of the Kundalini all right? So it depends on the what chakras are catching. Supposing somebody has a Nabhi problem. So you can’t say it’s a different stage but he has a Nabhi problem, a particular problem. Somebody has a some other problem, like that. But the other stage comes in when we would say that once the first stage is called as Nirvichar Samadhi that you achieve even before realisation. I mean you achieve but you do not retain it, means when the Kundalini crosses over this centre, then this Nirvichar Samadhi means, thoughtless awareness, this one settles. But with this you can cure people but cannot raise Kundalini. But when It pierces through then you can raise the Kundalini of other people. But when It is settled down nicely, and when you are absolutely without any doubts it’s a state, it’s a state of mind that comes into you where you are absolutely, doubtlessly prepared. When that happens then only we expose you to new experiences. Before that we do not. That’s the thing we have a little, we should say a little group of people where you have to go up to Nirvikalp Samadhi.

Unless and until you go to that stage you cannot be exposed to new experiences because you may shun it. Because the Truth can be quite difficult. So that’s the second stage we can say where you are exposed to those new experiences. But first stage is to become thoughtlessly aware with the vibrations, but you can give realisation to others, you can give. But Nirvikalpa is a different thing that whatever may happen you know that this is the Truth, whatever may happen. That stage is to be achieved, it’s a stage, it’s a very high stage I would say where you are so sensitive to things that immediately you know what is negativity, from where it is coming, how the attack is coming, how others are affected. We have a quite a lot of them among here also people and then you are exposed to new experiences better. And then you rise in there, that’s the Nirvikalpa Samadhi. Then the self-realisation complete comes in, in a person where he is not bothered about catching from anyone or getting any catches or anything and he goes on with a very confident attitude towards Sahaja yoga. I mean he is not bothered whether I am catching or something is happening. I will not see that person. That sort of stage and we have some people on that stage who are I can say self realised fully, they can control even elements. There are people, we have got such people. Beyond that is the stage of God’s realisation. That’s again in three stages works out. But just now let’s start from the very beginning and it will work out I am sure now. Now I have been working here for seven years and actually some of these people who are at Nirvikalpa have not been here even for a year.

So it can work very fast. As the people grow in number, these stages also grow in sort of, in maturity very fast. You mature very fast as the people are more, as when there were few people you should know that I had six people I was struggling with them for four years in England. Even in India the first disciples who got realisation, were with Me for two years continuously and then they got realisation, the first twelve. It’s like that. Now you know everybody. All of you are giving realisation.


oh dynamic, absolutely dynamic. Efficiency is too simple a word you just become dynamic. Because a dynamic start going through, we don’t know how things work out amazing, amazing, how things work out. Then all the forces which are dynamic, Divine start their play. In every way, material way also, I must say like London Sahaja yogis wanted to have some houses. I said all right now they have so many houses they don’t know what to do. But this is the condition. They don’t know what to do, from where to get people to a house there. This is the condition. While nobody can get a house like that for one year absolutely free or two years absolutely free, a house is just to be painted or something and many houses like that. They are getting one after so many houses they don’t know what to do with. I mean a person will have to live in three houses if we have to divide them.

And a lady came to Me she said I am told that houses are only given to Sahaja yogis so I want to join Sahaja yoga. I said very good idea, but first you must get your realisation. Otherwise these Sahaja yogis won’t have you anywhere near. They don’t want people with bad vibrations. So you have to get your realisation. I mean it’s just a one of the small instances but there are thousands and one. This becomes dynamic. Your desires get enlightened. First of all your desires becomes sensible. You have wise desires and they get enlightened, means you desire you will get. You are amazed. It is fantastic.

Can you stand up please? I can’t hear you. You please stand up.

I don’t think that was Holy Ghost. You have apostles where also ?? you will know about them. They were not realised, they never believed in Christ till He got His resurrection which they saw with their eyes they never believed in Christ. You will know more about them. I don’t want to go into any controversies but that’s not the way. You see, there are many people you have seen now. The other day I saw in BBC a man whose painting like Van Gogh. He can say that I have got Holy Ghost or what. That’s not the way, it’s a spirit. Why God should make him paint like them. If God has to give you something, He has to give you something that you cannot do.

If you start speaking many languages, may be so many dead spirits must have entered into people. There are many people who do that way. They just start talking so many languages, there are spirits in them. What is there to speak many languages? What is so great? We have in India one gentleman who can speak twenty eight languages, so what he is not a realised soul by any chance. How to talk, they were just ordinary fishermen and they would not listen. You see, they were thinking they are obliging Christ. Everyday there were list of relations who were sick, were brought to Christ and big problem, very tragic thing, horrible. People are much wiser now. It’s very different now and I mean how could you talk to these people about Kundalini, could you? This is what happen with everyone who came on this earth. Even Mohammad Sahib, They know how to butcher, you see these people are not seekers and they came to Christ. They were not seekers if they were, I must say John who was the best among, even Mathews he argued so much about the Immaculate Conception. You see, you don’t know what was all that, forget it. you will know about them later on. It is better you see now, to yourself. Now I am before you, all right, forget about them. Let’s have it out, it’s not that same thing. You won’t be speaking many languages I can assure you.

But cold wind is a faith, that’s a faith that’s very. We have one experience of that. One gentleman who was doing black magic, when, you say, he was a arch bishop of black magic, he came to Sahaja yoga, you see and he got his realisation he got the cold wind. And after that all this cups and saucers in his house started flying around and everything happening you see. I mean it has happen very recently, about I think fifteen-twenty days back and about 12’o clock in the night, from people from Brighton rang me up at 12’o clock in the night, Mother horrible things happening. I said what happened, we gave realisation to one man and the whole house is in whirl wind. Everything is moving around and we don’t know what to do and everything cracking. Oh god, I said, who is this gentleman whom you gave realisation. He said he is very great in black magic this and that. I said why did you give him realisation? It’s a thing you know, they try to tempt. Because the spirits were around and they wanted to tempt him. They want to frighten also because he has been so much with them, they don’t want to give them up. And this thing happened. But that’s not the thing that we should expect. There was a lady whom I gave realisation I told her that because you are been indulging into nonsensical things, your guru was a very great tantrik and he used to do all such tricks, you may start doing that after realisation also. So she said no, no, no mother I don’t want all that, I want param, I want the reality, I don’t want that. I said but still it will happen. Somebody may try to tempt you so. Because they do not want you to be realised and it happened to her. Rice started falling from her hand and then she took another turn, ultimately she became a mad woman. So it is so. It can happen, but rarely, not so much if you have not been a professional black magician or something. It will not happen.

We have misunderstood many things and that’s why it is necessary to know it and then understand. Because if I tell you something there would be blockade and barrier in your mind. As it is people are brain washed by so many things. Like those who are Muslims don’t want to look at Christ, they don’t want to hear. Those who are Christians don’t want to hear about anybody else. Those who are, say Hindus, they don’t want to know about anybody else, you see. But Sahaja yoga gives meaning to all of them, to all them, are important, all of them. Everyone is important for Sahaja yoga and they reside within us in those different chakras. It is a very different thing one has to first see and then judge. Not to judge about anything without seeing it. Without seeing whatever we judge may not be correct, all right.

Should we have the vibrations now? Let’s, please put your hand like this. Just be relaxed. You have to ask for your realisation, otherwise it doesn’t work out. I must tell you. [some conversation not related to talk] Put your hands like this and close your eyes

Please keep the eyes closed, don’t keep them open, because the Kundalini won’t rise above the agya if you keep your eyes open. Please keep them closed.

You will start feeling cool breeze in the hand that’s the only thing that happens. But nobody can certify it is you who has to feel. Also from your fontanel bone area, if you put your left hand you can see cool breeze coming in.  Who are the new people? I would like to see them.


H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi