Conversation with Rustom and visiting Indian family

London (England)

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1982-1013 Conversation with Rustom and visiting Indian family 1982: Astrology – Medicine – Physical Problems of Left-Side, London

Shri Mataji laughs. … has written if anybody reads. I mean, just, it once I must read it. It will be happy to know. I don’t know, so many complications of course this and that, and that house in that and this one. Indians life of course … [words ambiguous/incomprehensible]

Dr. Rustom: laughs. I hope You saw the humour Mataji.

Shri Mataji: We have two … [words incomprehensible]. That’s all right, but – it is something like [words incomprehensible]. The trouble is, everything seems to be in it’s house you see. This I can’t understand how it is happen. It’s like lord is in the house, sort of thing is going on. The aspect of strong Jupiter lord of ten. From an area sign on the intellectual planet mercury. What does that mean I don’t know. Lord and sub-lord of Lagna. Lagna is the … [words incomprehensible]

Dr. Rustom: Lagna up to the cancer. [Indian language]

Shri Mataji: But lord and sub-lord of Lagna.

Dr. Rustom: He has a curious system. I know this charting called Krihsnamurti system. You divide each house in seven or nine parts and each part is ruled by such planet. So if your Lagna – so you call in him your Lagna is in Methon I think…

Shri Mataji: Jupiter.

Dr. Rustom: And in that part it may be ruled by mercury so it’s the lord and sub-lord of the Lagna.

Shri Mataji: I don’t know whatever it is. So I can’t understand this [words incomprehensible]. And also at Lagna as I see. On the intellectual planet mercury lord and sub-lord of Lagna and also Lagna in the moon clearly indicates true wisdom beyond near human intellect and intuition of a very high order. Intuition I don’t have at all. I mean whatever I have I have, it’s no intuition, you see its different I see there. What is there to have intuition? I don’t know whatever they call it. May not be the word for that in our language, you see. In human language whatever I have what will you call that – intuition? I … I no clear … [words incomprehensible]

Dr. Rustom: No, in … [words incomprehensible] its perception.

Shri Mataji: You see, the perception.

Dr. Rustom: More inside.

Shri Mataji: [words incomprehensible] not perception. Because then you are a third person to do that. But if you are that, then what is it?

Dr. Rustom: Awareness – chitta.

Shri Mataji: Ha? Chitta is there. Atscha! The holy mother means [words incomprehensible]. The holy mother is indeed knowledge beyond human comprehension. Knowledge of the infinite, of divine incarnations then … [words incomprehensible]. … this is the part. You see, I don’t know how I should say that. You see, because I mean to Me it’s such a common sense that logical you should arrive at that point to Me. It is I can’t understand how you don’t arrive at logically with all your intellect. But to Me it’s not intelligence I must say. Because intelligence you have to use to find it out. But it’s already there, to Me it’s found like this is red colour in the same way everything is for Me that way.

Dr. Rustom: I believe it all come for You?

Shri Mataji: That’s it.

Dr. Rustom: Like a wave starting and the wave You are seen from the centre. You are the source.

Shri Mataji: That’s why. All sorts of things are like this you see. Now let’s see Gemini. The ascendant falls in Gemini own by mercury. That is to say in the star of Rahu and in the sub of Saturn. The sub-lord Saturn as lord of nine is posited in a friendly sign Virgo in the star of Mars. Lord of eleven is expecting Lagna powerful, is what?

Dr. Rustom: Actually Shri Mataji…

Shri Mataji: What is Gemini? Here, let us…[words incomprehensible]

Dr. Rustom: Gemini is Lagna according to him. Calling the English system Your Lagna is Cancer.

Shri Mataji: Ascendant falls into Gemini.

Dr. Rustom: Ascendant is Lagna. So he is saying Your Lagna is in Gemini. But that is not true, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: Ascendant falls in Gemini own by Mercury.

Dr. Rustom: The Ruler of Gemini is Mercury.

Shri Mataji: No, it could be why not. Ascendance Gemini it could be.

Dr. Rustom: But it isn’t Shri Mataji. We have calculated it here.

Shri Mataji: Acha.

Dr. Rustom: Your ascendant is cancer, very clearly.

Shri Mataji: You see, from Me, when if I am Gemini or anything it makes no difference. Because, you see, if Gemini means the double thing. I can. I am in a double – Mahamaya is from Gemini only. You see Mahamaya opening [? word ambiguous] comes from Gemini only.

Dr. Rustom: That is true. You see, there are two systems they have made, Shri Mataji. One is the English system and one is the Indian system.

Shri Mataji: Even with this Gemini it means I am a Mahamaya, nothing else.

Dr. Rustom: But that means Your Lagnesh is Buddha.

Shri Mataji: I was born … [words incomprehensible]

Dr. Rustom: So, that means You are ruled by Lagnesh is Brahmadeva.

Shri Mataji: Brahmadeva. Lagnesh is Buddha, Mercury.

Dr. Rustom: According to the English system Your Lagnesh is the moon.

Shri Mataji: Ha?

Dr. Rustum: By English system Shri Mataji, Lagnesh is the moon, Chandra he.

Shri Mataji: Acha. Mercury that is to say in the star of Rahu and in the sub of Saturn. [words incomprehensible] Mercury, Rahu or Saturn? Rahu is Kundalini.

Dr. Rustom: Rahu is Kundalini! And Ketu?

Shri Mataji: Ketu Mercury side by side [? words ambiguous]. Rahu is Kundalini, no doubt. Rahu is Energy – Ra-hu.

Dr. Rustom: And Ketu then will be Sahastrara in the end. They are opposite.

Shri Mataji: … [words incomprehensible] put it that Sahastrara.

Dr. Rustom: Ketu could be atman also.

Shri Mataji: Ketu, [… some words in Indian language]. The spirit Christ. … [words incomprehensible] It touch spirit at that – here first. You see the Sadashiva … the spirit here, Agnya.

Dr. Rustom: Because they said it, Ketu. Rahu and Ketu, according to some traditions, Rahu is an aspect of Shri Krishna and Ketu of Shri Ganesha they say but I don’t know how correct that is.

Shri Mataji: Rahu should be the Kundalini I think. Rahu.

Dr. Rustom: Ra-hu.

Shri Mataji: Ra-hu.

Dr. Rustom: And Ketu…

Shri Mataji: Ketu could be … [words incomprehensible].

Dr. Rustom: Sadashiva. Because they are opposites. Always they are opposites and the two, the combination of the two are very important.

Shri Mataji: … [words incomprehensible]

Dr. Rustom: … [word incomprehensible] is the story about how Rahu and Ketu was formed.

Shri Mataji: No, the lord of the Lagna is Rahu in My case. Rahu the star-lord of Lagna.

Dr. Rustom: Star-lord, that is different Shri Mataji. He has two systems, you see. I spoke to … [word incomprehensible] great length. I know its stile. Frist you have the Lagnesh and then within the Lagna, within the Rakshi of the Lagna you have star, star kiyang [? Word ambiguous] how does it. Talaresh (?) Talesh you can say. So Akna Lagnesh he Buddha Taresh he Rahu [words in Indian language]

Shri Mataji: Rahu he or sun he [words in Indian language]

Dr. Rustom: The system is very complicated, I can’t follow, because they are…

Shri Mataji: Sun, [words in Indian language]. Sun is Atma karaka. Atma karaka.

Dr. Rustom: Because … [word incomprehensible] is very clear in your house that the sun is in the mid heaven in the house and everything comes from there. You remember, beautifully…

Shri Mataji: Atma karaka. Sun gives you the atma. Atma karaka. Find out … [words incomprehensible]. I think Rahu should be that. Ha! Rahu represents the Kundalini – ha, or the serpent power in the human body.

Dr. Rustom: And Ketu, he has not so.

Shri Mataji: Ketu must be somewhere let’s see. You see, according to that Bhagwati whatever it is I must say it is a very deep thing, no doubt. Because according to that thing it is the storehouse of absolute divine knowledge and arises and manifests to perform its functions at the wind of Bhagavati. But only at the appropriate time according to the karma of the individual, this has been verified trough … cases [words incomprehensible]. It means its only through the Bhagvatis … [words incomprehensible] otherwise not. All right, lets see.

… [words incomprehensible] I was saying it that also sicknesses comes also from this astrological problems, you see. Sicknesses comes from astrological problems.


Let us divide people into three Gunas first of all. So we have got left, right and the centre. So the left are the people who are – they’re called tamasik. But actually they are people who desire more – act less. And those who have got cough as their [words in indian language].

Dr. Rustom: Phlegm – phlegmatic.

Shri Mataji: They are phlegmatic. So the right side people are the people who are overactive, mentally alert, futuristic and also have got this – what you call? – bile, bilious nature. The central ones are the people who have got balanced attitude towards life, not competitive by nature, seeking, deeper, not lethargic either, but seeking you can say. These people are suffer from gas.

Dr. Rustom: Wind.

Shri Mataji: Wind, I mean gas trouble. For this channa is the best. Channa is the best. [some words in Indian language]. So let us [words incomprehensible]. Then from Bhrigu (?) you can divide them into according through the chakras. So we have 21 types of people you can say. But two more I’ll add is this one and the moon. So we have 27 types of people. Seven…

Dr. Rustom: 21 plus 2 is 23.

Shri Mataji: Three! Sun, moon – [some words in Indian language].

Dr. Rustom: So six –21…

Shri Mataji: So, sun, moon say the aspect orbit that. There is another aspect we get with sun. There are people who have more moon them are inactive in the order. When we say a liver patient is there. Take an example. Liver patient. So there is one cold liver and there is a hot liver. See the combination. So the liver even if it is showing a liver or you it could be a cold liver or could be a hot liver. So if it is a cold liver then maybe it might show on the left swadhisthana.

Dr. Rustom: Cold liver?

Shri Mataji: Cold liver! Left swadhisthana and left nabhi could be cold liver.

Dr. Rustom: That is the classic?

Shri Mataji: Left swadhisthana and left nabhi could create cold liver. So most of the allergies come to us with [word incomprehensible] from there. That from swadhisthana and left nabhi combination, it means swadisthana is all unauthorised. So we can say from viruses or some sort of a thing like that, most of the cold livers are due to that. Psychologist are more exposed. Now, you shouldn’t smell this, is a horrible fish salad, they have making for Sada [? word ambiguous], just close bumbing (? word ambiguous). Just close this door.

Dr. Rustom: It’s great speciality – Parsi [words incomprehensible]

Shri Mataji: Parsi, also you see, … wanted Me, because … is not there [words incomprehensible]. That he doesn’t like this smell in the house, that’s all. I’m sorry. Horrible smell it is. (14:50) [word incomprehensible]. Sada (?) is going away so she said.

So cold liver – is it too much? Otherwise for some people it is an appetizer. [some Yogis laughing]

Dr. Rustom: Yes, for us it is.

Shri Mataji: So, for others they making … [word incomprehensible]. You can have. What we have cold liver or hot liver depending on the position of the moon and the sun. So the whole activity and inactivity actually is done by these two.

Dr. Rustom: By sun or moon?

Shri Mataji: By sun or moon? If it is inactive also there is disease, if it is active there is also disease.

Dr. Rustom: And you can have both, activity and inactivity mixed in the same?

Shri Mataji: No, you can’t. Normally you can’t.

Dr. Rustom: One minute very active and then…

Shri Mataji: Ne, ne… But maybe as a result of over-activity it can go out of order completely and then it will become absolutely inactive. [… some words in Indian language] At a later state. See a person who is very active running up and down. Then suddenly he becomes lethargic, you see, and he is so tired. That can happen to a person. So a person who has a very active liver can develop a very inactive liver or who has an inactive liver can always become an active liver. So there can be a change from one to another but both cannot be simultaneous. Why will they send some tee, because tee will be good?

Dr. Rustom: What is – now, You say sun and moon Shri Mataji. Does it mean where they are placed in their Kundalini, whether they are placed on the Lugnar. They say normally the sun and the moon is on the Lugnar and that is a very powerful position. (note: astrology).

Shri Mataji: … [… word incomprehensible] not dealing with astrology as such. Tattwas. Let us got to the tattwas. Main thing is the tattwas and you can see in the body of a person. A person who is very thin, say he doesn’t put on weight and all that, definitely is on the right side. The person who is fat, puts on weight, is on the left side. Means the general way you can say. In the centre you will be more on the fatter side, no doubt, because gas. [some words in Indian language]. But such a person will be light not heavy. Light. Though he maybe quite fat to look at. Could be quite fat, because of the gas, you see. And could certainly thin down also. He may look thin or may look [… word incomprehensible] go to that. Sometimes in one day I may look very much thin down. It happens really actually, My blouses, you see, certainly becomes so tight if there is a puja, then I can’t take out the blouse. It can thin down absolutely, you see. The same day if you take My photograph you’ll find two dimension in my body because of the Vayu, see the Prana Vayu – this thing. Now this is one, why?


That we have to study the combinations in a person. So now in our vibrately awareness you should find out what is his side. Left or right? So we scan it first of all, all right? That’s very simple, to find out whether left or right. If he is in the centre the vibrations will be flowing nicely and he will be not so sick [? word ambiguous]. Maybe he might appear to be bloated of fat but that’s not the point. Because according to doctors a man who is fat is sick and a man who is thin is perfectly all right. It is not true. All the gods and goddesses are all fat people. Even if they want, I mean even if I loose weight anything, I can’t go down very much. Because you see the water and the air always surrounds the chakras and so the person – the more you will expand – I mean, if you are thin gradually you’ll find there will be expansion on this and they will become heavier all these chakras because they’re to be protected. Because the more they start working it out you will see them. But you can reduce it because gas can taken out of your body.

So, for people now we have decided now there are three types. So for the first type of people who are say left sided, the thing is that they should be ask to put their – raise their right and put down their left. So – but the hand that is to be towards the photograph should be left. With the right hand you first take it, like that. The hand that has to raise it is your own hand, raising your own power you see and taking it out the grace down below towards the photograph.

Now, when you are going to take vibrations from the photograph for the left sided person put the left hand towards the photograph, left hand, and right hand upward. All right? Is clear cut now? Even bandhan should be given that way. 108 times it should be.

Dr. Rustom: This one way?

Shri Mataji: Yea. Now, let’s see the left side problems. First is the inactivity of the organs – inactivity of the organs, you see. That causes allergies, lethargy.

Dr. Rustom: Virus infection?

Shri Mataji: Virus infection. [some words in an Indian language]. But now, this we can say basically. But when it is triggered, these left-sided people went [… word incomprehensible]. What happens actually, the left [… sound gap] control with the whole. That’s a different situation. Once it is inactive, all right? Say your liver is inactive. Till then if it is inactive we have theses troubles like that. Then when it is triggered – it has been lethargic for so much time, it’s triggered by some spirit. Then the same liver will become cirrhosis of liver or cancer of liver. Then certainly from their sluggishness you see. [some words ambiguous] … your taken charge of every [… some words incomprehensible] that’s the main thing you can say. The spirit comes in and takes charge.

Dr. Rustom: So such left-sided people can get liver disease very easy?

Shri Mataji: Any disease.

Dr. Rustom: Hepatitis, cirrhosis, cancer?

Shri Mataji: Cancer, myelitis.

Dr. Rustom: Because of wanting that it is true Shri Mataji that although in this country we drink so much, but yet cirrhosis of the liver is common in India and they don’t drink and we not know the cause of it. And they put many theories, but probably the Indians are more left-sided so… (23:13)

Shri Mataji: Indians are left-sided.

Dr. Rustom: So when they get triggered they all get cirrhosis.

Shri Mataji: Indians are very left-sided. They are left-sided by nature. See, drinking is an artificial left-sidedness because they are so egoistical that they cannot face their ego, so that they drink, you know. So that they go to the left side. It’s an artificial left-sidedness. Drinking is an artificial left-sidedness. But Indians on the whole are fate, [… word incomprehensible] fate, forget it. […words in Indian language]. But I would say Indians are more in the centre, because they don’t sit down and cry. They always say: ‘Doesn’t matter, it’s your fate.’ So I would say they are more in the centre, not so much left-sided. But cirrhosis of liver is caused, I tell you why. They have lethargic liver. Among people who take things like – you can say to make it lethargic is vegetarian food. Vegetarian food can cause…

Dr. Rustom: Vegetables are all on the left

Shri Mataji: They are leftsided.

Dr. Rustom: Yes.

Shri Mataji: Vegetables are left-sided, you see. And that can cause constipation (? verbal error) – äh, too much of – they have diarrhea and things like that. They can be very left-sided, this vegetarians are.

Dr. Rustom: They also have bloated stomachs.

Shri Mataji: Bloated stomachs and they eat too much rice. This is very, very [… word incomprehensible] you see. So, rice also if it is – just carbohydrates is all right. Starch and vegetables. They eat lot of starch. Potatoes, starch and vegetables, all this things cause lethargic to the left side. Proteins – […words in Indian language].

Dr. Rustom: Protein digestion it starts in the stomach and then it carries on in the smaller intestines.

Shri Mataji: And liver [… word in Indian language] carbohydrates.

Dr. Rustom: Liver has no part in the protein digestion.

Shri Mataji: […words in Indian language] – that’s the food for the liver, no daubt. You see, though it doesn’t pay part in the digestion but it uses the carbohydrats in the body.

Dr. Rustom: Yes. The liver, you see, Shri Mataji. Liver is the only organ in the body that can burn fat.

Shri Mataji: It burns fat.

Dr. Rustom: Yes, it’s the only organ in the body that can burn fat. It is the only organ in the body that can produce carbohydrates.

Shri Mataji: It produces.

Dr. Rustom: It produces from fat, you see. And it also stores carbohydrates. And the way burns fat it reduces the carbohydrates in the cycle [… word incomprehensible]

Shri Mataji: It transforms it. Also it removes the poison. Now, if you take the cirrhosis case in India it is because of the eating habits you ca say. Always you will find the vegetarians are frane (? word ambigous) from a liver trouble because carbohydrates […words in Indian language]. If they eat nothing than starch, chauwel [??… word ambiguous], or potatoes, this thing that thing and liver, it sustain too much, I mean it’s given too much food – sort of thing…

Dr. Rustom: The rest of the body is starved?

Shri Mataji: Starved. But liver is also starved. If you eat too much of this things, liver will be starved. If you give sugar to the liver then also liver will become lethargic. I mean if you want to reduce the activity of the liver then you take sugar or carbohydrates. Did you follow My point?

Dr. Rustom: Yes.

Shri Mataji: But if you take too many carbohydrates already all the time then your liver will not function. (27:28)

Dr. Rustom: The other (thing) liver needs Shri Mataji, is protein. The liver is pure protein. The structure of liver is based on protein.

Shri Mataji: And if you don’t have protein in you food, the liver will become lethargic. Weak and lethargic. When it becomes weak then you get cirrhosis. Do you understand My point?

Dr. Rustom: Yes, I understand perfectly.

Shri Mataji: Vegetables we care, carbohydrates, … [… words incomprehensible, problably Indian language] but they not have proteins. That is why their liver is not sustain. Do you follow My point?

Dr. Rustom: And the same thing now is happening to the ashram diet. Because they are eating that sort of diet, means their becoming lethargic.

Shri Mataji: No, because they were overactive, their liver was overactive. That’s why I said. But now they should not. They can have now introduce some chicken and things. Chicken is all right. Chicken and lamb you can introduce. So now we have this one side, this say liver and anything.

On the left side now, cancer. Which one should we come to now? Liver [… word incomprehensible] swadisthan Chakra. Mooladhar? Let us start with mooladhar. Now left sided mooladhara – impotency. Are – is inactive (?).

Dr. Rustom: Impotency. Lack of interest?

Shri Mataji: Lack of interest. And too much activity on the right hand side can also become impotency, you see. If a person is overactive in early age he can become impotent. It’s a result of that, as a result of over-activity.

Yogi: Is it like burned out sun, mother.

Shri Mataji: It’s like that.

Yogi: …burned there it becomes cold [… word incomprehensible].

Shri Mataji: That’s it.

Dr. Rustom: As usually the non-realized person he cannot increase the energy in the sympathetic. Whatever energy he has, that he has.

Shri Mataji: That he will increase and he’ll exhausted. Naturally, because he’ll exhaust his sympathetic energy, so this thing. Now for that, left side, all of them, we can use fire and we can use candle, though it emits heat. Even the bhoots emits heat. Tremendous heat they can emit.

Dr. Rustom: What about copper, Shri Mataji, for left sided people? Copper? (30:00)

Shri Mataji: Copper should be good for them.

Dr. Rustom: To drink, eat copper?

Shri Mataji: Copper or gold. You see, if you rub gold, say – is it on the stone as we eat is good for them. If they take also for them ‘raksharakh’ on the body or ‘gheru’. All red colour things, like gheru. You know what is a gheru is? Calcium. Every – for the children calcium. For the children calcium. Left sided people give you. Children calcium (?). Gheru. Then ‘bhasma’. So, if you, say have My photograph or you take it from My yadnya, you see. That is for the … [… word incomprehensible] you have got these…

Dr. Rustom: What are use to use in Derby was, when I use to burn the Agarbattis like Bhasma?

Shri Mataji and Dr. Rustum speak simultaneous.

Shri Mataji: That could be use. Sh… is a energy condition. Gheru you can drink. What is gheru in English language?

Dr. Rustom: It’s mud, is type of earth which you get.

Shri Mataji: Its one of the mud’s from…

Dr. Rustom: You remember the Mahashivaratri puja in Delhi You were given…

Shri Mataji: I had a flight there … each colour [… word incomprehensible]. So that is good, for the left side. Now, left mooladhara. Is best they can have, left mooladhara – is by putting some fire, charcoal and put some ajwain on top. And have a seat which have got a … [… word incomprehensible]

Dr. Rustom: Ah, to sit on that.

Shri Mataji: To sit on that. Take it from … [… name incomprehensible]. And in India you see people can sit like this … [words incomprehensible]. I say, this one, they put a tawa. In the tawa you put charcoal, on that you put ajwain and just sit on that and take it. That’s the best for left mooladhara. For left mooladhara, all right? … [some words perhaps in Indian language]. (32:10)

Then, the combinations of left mooladhara. Now, [… some words in Indian language], lets see the cause, left mooladhara. As I said first the over-activity, secondly maybe lack of interest from the very beginning. Third, too much conditionings, forth could be –

Dr. Rustom: Black magic and all that?

Shri Mataji: Absolutely. Black magic, spirits – or some sort of a thing like Buddhism, some people from they might get it because there, you see, they take to asceticism. Asceticism takes you away as lack of interest. So many gurus can do. Rajneesh does that. He does, what is it that, he puts the mooladhara absolutely into activity and talks of sex.

Dr. Rustom: He excites it?

Shri Mataji: No, he doesn’t excite. He cannot excite. What he does, he talks of sex when people cannot have any sex. So it’s a frustration, he creates a frustration and a kind of a inferiority complex.

Dr. Rustom: Also expose if you are blasphemers the mooladhara.

Shri Mataji: Ha?

Dr. Rustom: If you speak blasphemy … mooladhara chakra … [words incomprehensible]

Shri Mataji: That is very much if you are mean.

Dr. Rustom: You… [… word incomprehensible/adventitious sounds]

Shri Mataji: No, I mean if you say something about the chastity of mother. At that point one should be very careful. … [… word incomprehensible] chastity of mother. That displeases Ganesha very much.

Dr. Rustom: Of course. That is the ‘maha-pa’ – ‘param-pa’.

Shri Mataji: ‘Maha-pa’, ‘Param-pa’. That’s worst than killing your own mother. The maha-pa. Some words in Indian language. And also you see, saying words of … [… word incomprehensible], vulgar words in the presence of mother. Is inauspicious. Even describing something, before saying you must warn mother many times that this is a very vulgar word which we’ll have to tell You, because we’ll have to tell You. But ten times you should ask for forgiveness and all that and then it is all right. But otherwise just to come out with the vulgar word that he said like these or that, is not good. See, in the protocol of the mother is very important. It is very sensitive. Then it could come if you are with a woman who is possessed or mad, or a woman who is overaggressive.

Dr. Rustom: Can it come from a possessed mother also?

Shri Mataji: No, mother has nothing to do with that [… some words incomprehensible] Mother is higher. And this position is a woman. And äh – the perversions you see. Perversions. Because perversions is nothing than overactivity and then it results in the inactivity.

Dr. Rustom: Perversions is I have seen, Shri Mataji, it can’t be right sided sexual activity.

Shri Mataji: No, when it is active, perversion activity can result. Results definitely into this. You see, perverted activity is right sided all right. But from there it results in the left mooladhara and then it becomes a habit.

Dr. Rustom: What I have seen is…

Shri Mataji: Then it just becomes just a habit. There is no sexual activity as such but it’s a matter of habit.

Dr. Rustom: That is true. [… some words incomprehensible]. But it starts in the right swadhisthana.

Shri Mataji: Starts on the right but ends up there.

Dr. Rustom: I have seen the curve. It makes a curve from the right swadisthana and then curve in the left mooladhara. You see, its very – you see, what have weakens them, I don’t know how it works, but it goes like that. That curve…

Shri Mataji: It can weaken if you put too much pressure on it. See, do all kind of things, they are not sensitive, you see and then naturally it will be weakened, isn’t it?

Dr. Rustom: That’s right.

Shri Mataji: Naturally … [words incomprehensible]! It’s an abuse, you see. Perversion is nothing but an abuse nonsense, you see. Then it becomes weak. And a weak mooladhara is very dangerous because with a weak mooladhara you can get so many diseases of muscles, this multiple –

Dr. Rustom: Acha. Polymyositis.

Shri Mataji: All this.

Dr. Rustom: [… some words incomprehensible] Because all this polymyositis now I can understand.

Shri Mataji: Muscles [… some words in Indian language] In English I don’t know what to call. That it goes back to its own position and […word in Indian language]. Flexibility.

Dr. Rustom: Elasticity.

Shri Mataji: Elasticity. Now, weak it stands up, you see. The direction of the hand and all that. All this positions are done trough the power of Shri Ganesha. That is His power. So then what happens that is [words incomprehensible] – muscles becomes… – what do you call that?

Dr. Rustom: Uses its stone. Flaggy.

Shri Mataji: Flaggy. It can not raise your legs, you see. It looses its elasticity.

Dr. Rustom: And heaviness then come.

Shri Mataji: In Sanskrit whatever this ‘stithi stapak’ (?). ‘Stithi stapak’ it makes your state. Establishes your state, whichever state you want to have.

Dr. Rustom: That’s right. ‘Sthiti stapak’.

Shri Mataji: Stithi stapak. Stithi stapak. So, that is lost and that’s why Shri Ganesha – then you develop all this troubles of the muscles. Whatever you call them, I don’t know. Whatever you call that in your language.

Dr. Rustom: Myositis, [words incomprehensible]

Yogi: They even changing the names…

Shri Mataji: That’s very true. That’s why I’m at the laws myself. [words incomprehensible] lot of them. So the basis is it. One of the chakras has to be mooladhara. So in anyone of this diseases first give a bandhan with the candle to the mooladhara.

Dr. Rustom: Something that is…

Shri Mataji: Test! And Ganesha say. You’ll be amazed immediately they start raising their feet.

Yogi: Do You are from this area Mataji with the candle?

Shri Mataji: That second time. Because you see it can work out anywhere. So the main point is there. Then it could be at the point where we can say the swadhisthana point, could be at vishuddhi point or could be at agnya point. But first is that. First is Shri Ganesha. Then you must back at Shri Ganesh with other combinations. You can feel it on your hands also. But some people don’t feel Ganesha at all. You see, for example to feel Ganesha you have to be sensitive for Ganesha. Like those who have been hurt more on Ganesha in any way can feel Ganesha fast. Indians talk to Ganeshas [ambiguous]. Ganeshas chakra they don’t feel so much. Is in the west [words incomprehensible].

Dr. Rustom: Because their Ganesha is so strong.

Shri Mataji: Is a sore point at [word incomprehensible].

Dr. Rustom: Sensitive.

Shri Mataji: It’s a sore point. It is hurt already, so you feel it more. There is up to left swadhisthana. You have a left swadhithana. First thing you will feel in the left swadisthan.

Dr. Rustom: Always.

Shri Mataji: Anybody will have left swadhisthana Rustom will come out with left swadhisthna first. Though that person may not have left swadhisthana so strong but even the slightest – because it’s a hurt left swadhisthana, you’ll feel it more. So in judging a person you must always keep your chakras which are permanently there in you. All right, so these all muscular troubles come from them.

Dr. Rustom: Shri Mataji, one thing about the … [word incomprehensible] of these muscular troubles is they happening children. They start in children. It that some purvas…

Shri Mataji: Purva janmas of course is there and children also. You see, the samskaras of parents are very important. Parents are very important at the time when a child is here born. What sort of parents they have, what kind of life they live. Supposing a father he goes to a prostitute.

Dr. Rustom: Then the whole marriage is destroyed.

Shri Mataji: You see, then the mother, say flits with another man when she is pregnant. That time is a question of complete purity, otherwise child I affected. These are naturally it happens. Naturally atmosphere. You see, supposing if the mother is pregnant and here it is so common. They are at least bothered about the auspiciousness. The pregnant mother will…

Dr. Rustom: Smoke?

Shri Mataji: Smoke. Not only smoke. Will go to parties, flirt with other man, do every sort of a dirty thing and all that. See, that can affect mooladhara. Also there are some others we don’t understand how to deal with the children as far as the sex is concerned. They are very, sometimes they are aggressive also with the children how to handle the sex carefully you see when they’re washing, bathing and all that. They can be quite… – sort of very rough handling to the child can cause, rough handling to the child.

Dr. Rustom: That happens, you see. That happens specially in this country Shri Mataji. Will produces a type of adult disease with phimosis, you see. Where the skin gets all constricted. And it is very common in England, very common in England, where in India it is very rear to find it.

Shri Mataji: Well, in India you see, when we have pure as far as children are concerned we are trained very well how to handle the child. Auspiciousness is the main point, ah – there is nothing which it is deeper but affects more the chakra of mooladhara. Because it is auspiciousness. It’s the chakra of auspiciousness so it affects you see, even if your mind is dirty. If you are pregnant and if you have dirty thoughts, it affects. It’s a question of auspiciousness which people don’t understand in the west at all, auspiciousness is lost.

Yogi: Would have we go to India to start to understand it?

Shri Mataji: India for the mooladhara is first. You see, to sit on the ground of Mother India She sucks in. She is very pure that. For that, that it is the best. India is the best one who are … [words incomprehensible], no doubt. There is nothing better than that. Because the Kundalini itself is that, so She cleares you out at mooladhara. Specially in Maharashtra, I think. In Maharashtra it is really beautiful. And if the people take their bath in that mud. In India on the river they’ll go, get some mud, put it to their body and jump in the water. Have their bath’s finished. They are clean. How many Indians, you see – this smelling business is only special of western people.

Dr. Rustom: I use to notice that, Shri Mataji. In India some times, you see, I’m for one week or ten days if you are travelling you don’t bathe. But I never is smell there. Here even bathing twice a day you sometimes smell.

Shri Mataji: That’s true. This place is a – I don’t know what is the reason, but it comes from mother earth and the fragrance comes from mother earth. So, one of the things comes from the lethargic. This thing could be also. Right side swadhisthana – äh, mooladhara chatching you always get mad smell from it.

Dr. Rustom: Hmm, right mooladhara.

Shri Mataji: Right left mooladhara. You see there is a funny smell in both the cases.

Dr. Rustom: I know the sort of smell, it’s like a sick smell. Burning smell. I used to notice it a lot here.

Shri Mataji: And from the left sided thing you see, I feel mooladhara you can get children which are not regular or something, you see because if the left side is caught up you might get children with a mental problems also. Left side is caught up, left mooladhara is caught up. You see, is a question of mind, it’ the base of mind.

Dr. Rustom: Manas.

Shri Mataji: Manas. The whole manas starts from there.

Dr. Rustom: Epilepsy in children.

Shri Mataji: Yes, epilepsy in children you can get if your mooladhra is not clean, if you are having … (End of the recording)