Conversation with Rustom on Shri Mataji’s horoscope, cold liver, London, 1982-10-13

Shri Mataji [reading her horoscope]: I must say, the things they have written, if anybody reads. I mean, just, one sentence I must read it [Laughter; inaudible].
He will be happy to know. I don’t know, so many complications of course, this and that, and that house in that and this one.
Indians life of course … [incomprehensible]
[Laughter]
Dr. Rustom I hope he saw that humour about You.
Shri Mataji: He has proved little be of a [inaudible], it’s all right, but – Yes, something like Jupiter, you see. The trouble is, everything seems to be in his house you see. This, I can’t understand how it is happening. It’s like Lord is in the house, sort of thing is going on. The aspect of strong Jupiter lord of ten. From an Area sign on the intellectual planet Mercury. What does that mean? I don’t know.
Lord and sub-lord of ‘lagna’ [moment of the sun’s entrance into a zodiacal sign]. ‘lagna’ is quite as ascendant.
Dr. Rustom Ah. ‘lagna’ up to the Cancer. [Indian language]
Shri Mataji: But Lord and sub-lord of ‘lagna’.
Dr. Rustom He has a curious system. I know this charting called Krihsnamurti’s system. You divide each house into seven or nine parts. And each part is ruled by certain planet. So, if your ‘lagna’ – so, according to him your ‘lagna’ is in Methon I think according to him.
Shri Mataji: Jupiter.
Dr Rustom: And that part of Methon is ruled by Mercury. So, it’s the Lord and sub-lord of the ‘lagna’.
Shri Mataji: I don’t know whatever it is.
Dr. Rustom It’s very complicated.
Shri Mataji: So, I can’t understand this language, you see, ‘lagna’. And also, on ‘lagna’ as you see.
[Shri Mataji is reading] “On the intellectual planet Mercury, Lord and sub-lord of ‘lagna’ and also ‘lagna’ in the Moon clearly indicates true wisdom beyond near human intellect and intuition of a very high order.” Intuition I don’t have at all!
I mean whatever I have I have, it’s no intuition, you see it’s different I see there. What is there to have intuition? I don’t know whatever they call it. May not be the word for that in our language, you see. In human language whatever I have what will you call that, intuition? I mean I know clearly everything [inaudible], you see.
Dr. Rustom: It’s not intuition, it’s perception.
Shri Mataji: You see, it’s the perception we can say.
Sahaja Yogi: Inside.
Shri Mataji: Hum?
Dr. Rustom: More than inside, perception.
Shri Mataji: More than inside, more than intuition, it’s perception. Because then, you are a third person to do that. But if you are that, then what is it?
Sahaja Yogi: Awareness, chitta.
Shri Mataji: Ha?
Dr. Rustom: Chitta.
Shri Mataji: Chitta is there. Atcha [good]
[Shri Mataji is reading] “The holy Mother means [inaudible]. The holy Mother is indeed knowledge beyond human comprehension. Knowledge of the infinite, of divine incarnations then of the kingdom”.
[Hindi]
This is the part. You see, but I don’t know how I should say that. You see, because I mean to Me it’s such a common sense that logically you should arrive at that point, to Me it is I can’t understand how you don’t arrive at logically with all your intellect. But to Me it’s not intelligence I must say. Because intelligence you have to use to find it out. But it’s already there, over Me it’s flowing. Like this is red colour, in the same way everything is for Me that way.
Dr. Rustom: But it all come for You?
Shri Mataji: That’s it.
Dr. Rustom: Like a wave starting and the wave You are seen from the centre.
Shri Mataji: Because I’m the source.
Dr. Rustom: You are the source.
Shri Mataji: That’s why.

All sorts of things are like this you, see. Now let’s see Gemini.
“The ascendant falls in Gemini own by Mercury. That is to say in the star of Rahu [north lunar node] and in the sub of Saturn. The sub-lord Saturn as Lord of nine is posited in a friendly sign Virgo in the star of Mars. Lord of eleven is expecting ‘lagna’ come full [unsure]”
Dr. Rustom: Actually, Shri Mataji-
Shri Mataji: What is Gemini? Here, let’s see, very similar.
Dr. Rustom: Gemini is ‘lagna’ according to him. But according to English system, Your ‘lagna’ is Cancer.
Shri Mataji: Ascendant falls in Gemini.
Dr. Rustom: Ascendant is ‘lagna’. So, he is saying Your ‘lagna’ is in Gemini. But that is not true, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Ascendant falls in Gemini own by Mercury.
Dr. Rustom: The Ruler of Gemini is Mercury.
Shri Mataji: Now, it could be, why not? Ascendance Gemini, it could be.
Dr. Rustom: But it isn’t Shri Mataji. We have calculated it here.
Shri Mataji: Acha.
Dr. Rustom: Your ascendant is Cancer, very clearly.
Shri Mataji: You see, from Me, when if I am Gemini or anything, it makes no difference. Because, you see, if Gemini means the double thing, you see, I can. I am in a double, Mahamaya is from Gemini only. You see, Mahamaya’s opening comes from Gemini only.
Dr. Rustom: That is true. You see, there are two systems they have made, Shri Mataji. One is the English system and one is the Indian system.
Shri Mataji: Even with this Gemini, it means I am a Mahamaya, nothing else.

Dr. Rustom: But that means Your ‘lagnesh’ is Buddha.
Shri Mataji: I was born in Buddha.
Dr. Rustom: So, that means You are ruled by, ‘lagnesh’ is Brahmadeva.
Shri Mataji: Brahmadeva. Lagnesh is Buddha, Mercury.
Dr. Rustom: But, according to the English system Your ‘lagnesh’ is the Moon.
Shri Mataji: Ha?
Dr. Rustum: By English system, Shri Mataji, ‘lagnesh’ is the Moon, [Hindi: Chandra he].
Shri Mataji: Acha.
Mercury that is to say in the star of Rahu and in the sub of Saturn. [Hindi] Mercury, Rahu or Saturn? Rahu is Kundalini.
Dr. Rustom: Rahu is Kundalini. And Ketu [south lunar node]?
Shri Mataji: Ketu. Mercury [Hindi]. Rahu is Kundalini, no doubt. Rahu is Energy – Ra-hu.
Dr. Rustom: And Ketu then will be Sahasrara in the end. They are opposite.
Shri Mataji: You can put it that Sahasrara.
Dr. Rustom: Ketu could be Atma or something like that.
Shri Mataji: Ketu. [Hindi: Atma to, Agnya… ]. here first. You see, the thing is Sadashiva [Hindi] the spirit here, Agnya.
Dr. Rustom: Because they said that Ketu, Rahu and Ketu, according to some traditions, Rahu is an aspect of Shri Krishna and Ketu of Shri Ganesha they say. But I don’t know how correct that is.
Shri Mataji: Rahu should be the Kundalini, I think. Rahu.
Dr. Rustom: Ra-hu.
Shri Mataji: Ra-hu.
Dr. Rustom: And Ketu…
Shri Mataji: Ketu could be … [Hindi].
Dr. Rustom: Yes, so they’re opposite. Always they are opposites. And the two, the combination of the two are very important.
Shri Mataji: It’s the whole ‘rashi’ [the Moon Sign], but you go through this. [Unsure]
Dr. Rustom: One thing is the story about how Rahu and Ketu was formed.
Shri Mataji: No, the Lord of the ‘lagna’ is Rahu in My case. Rahu the star-lord of ‘lagna’.
Dr. Rustom: Star-lord, that is different Shri Mataji. He has two systems, you see. I know, I spoke to Charjey at great length, I know his style.
First, you have the ‘lagnesh’ and then within the ‘lagna’, within the ‘rashi’ of the ‘lagna’, you have star, star [Kya? Hindi] How is it? Talahesh, Talesh you can say. So [Hindi: Akna Lagnesh he Buddha. Tahesh he Rahu]
Shri Mataji: Rahu he or sun he.
Dr. Rustom: The system is very complicated, I can’t follow, because they are many-
Shri Mataji: Sun, [Hindi]. Sun is Atma karaka. Atma karaka. [Hindi].
Dr. Rustom: Because ‘bhanti’ [unsure] is very clear in your house that the sun is in the mid heaven in the house and everything comes from there. You remember, beautifully…
Shri Mataji: Atma karaka. Sun gives you the atma. Atma karaka. You can find out [Hindi]. I think Rahu should be that. Ha! “Rahu represents the Kundalini “.
Dr. Rustom: He said it.
Shri Mataji: Ha! “Or the serpent power in the human body “.
Dr. Rustom: And Ketu, he has not spoken.
Shri Mataji: Ketu must be somewhere, let’s see Ketu.

You see, according to Tat Pragrati [unsure], whatever it is, I must say it is a very deep thing, no doubt. Because according to that thing, it’s written: “It is the storehouse of absolute divine knowledge and arises and manifests to perform its functions at the wind of Bhagavati. But only at the appropriate time according to the karma of the individual. This has been verified through our cases “. It means its only through the Bhagvati’s krupat [?] is done, but otherwise not.

All right, let’s go. [Hindi] I was saying it that also the sicknesses has come from this astrological problem, you see. Sicknesses has come from astrological problem.
So, let us divide people into three Gunas, first of all. So, we have got left, right and the centre. So, the left are the people who are – they’re called tamasik. But actually, they are people who desire more, act less and those who have got ‘kaphala’ as their [Hindi].
Dr. Rustom: Phlegm, phlegmatic.
Shri Mataji: They are phlegmatic.
So, the right-side people [rajasik] are the people who are overactive, mentally alert, futuristic and also have got this – what you call? – bile, bilious nature.
The central ones [sattvik] are the people who have got a balanced attitude towards life, not competitive by nature, seeking, deeper, not lethargic either, but seeking you can say.
And these people are, suffer from gas.
Dr. Rustom: Wind.
Shri Mataji: Wind, wind, I mean ‘gas trouble’. For this channa is the best. Channa is the best. [Hindi]. So, let us [Hindi].
Then from three gunas, you can divide them into, according to the chakras. So, we have 21 types of people, you can say. But two more I’ll add is the Sun and the Moon, OK? So, we have 27 types of people. Seven –
Dr. Rustom: 21 plus 2 is 23.
Shri Mataji: [Hindi] Three. Sun, Moon and- [Hindi].
Dr. Rustom: So, six –21 plus six, twenty-seven so.
Shri Mataji: So, Sun, Moon and the aspect of [inaudible]. It’s another aspect we get with sun. There are people who have more Moon, they are inactive in the order [?]. When we say, a liver patient is there, take an example, liver patient. So, there is one cold liver and there is a hot liver. See the combination. So, the liver, even if it is showing a liver in you, it could be a cold liver or could be a hot liver. So, if it is a cold liver then maybe it might show on the Left Swadishthana.
Dr. Rustom: Cold liver.
Shri Mataji: Cold liver. Left Swadishthana and Left Nabhi could be cold liver.
Dr. Rustom: That is the classic?
Shri Mataji: Left Swadishthana and left Nabhi could create cold liver. So, most of the allergies come to us, within us, from there. That from Swadishthana and Nabhi combination, left combination it comes, means Swadishthana is all unauthorized. So, we can say from viruses or some sort of a thing like that, most of the cold livers are due to that. Psychologist are more exposed.
Now, you shouldn’t smell this, it’s a horrible fish sadhna, they are making for sadhna, just close bumbing [unsure].
Dr. Rustom: Ah, I know it.
Shri Mataji: Just close this door.
Dr. Rustom: It’s a great specialty among Parsis.
Shri Mataji: Parsi. And also, you see, Ksadha wanted meat, because dad is not there. Dady don’t like this smell in the house, that’s all. I’m sorry.
It’s horrible smell, it is [inaudible]. Ksadha is going away, so she said.

So cold liver – is it too much? Otherwise for some people it is an appetizer.
Dr. Rustom: Yes, for us it is.
[Laughter]
Shri Mataji: So, but for others, they are making ‘pulao’. You can have.
What we have cold liver or hot liver depending on the position of the Moon and the Sun. So, the whole activity and inactivity actually is done by these two.

Dr. Rustom: By Sun and Moon.
Shri Mataji: By Sun or Moon. If it is inactive also there is disease, if it is active there is also disease.
Dr. Rustom: And you can have both, activity and inactivity mixed in the same time?
Shri Mataji: No, you can’t. Normally you can’t.
Dr. Rustom: One minute very active and then…
Shri Mataji: “Ne, ne”… But maybe as a result of over-activity it can go out of order completely and then it will become absolutely inactive. [Hindi] At a later state. See, a person who is very active running up and down. Then suddenly he becomes lethargic, you see, and he is so tired. That can happen to a person. So, a person who has a very active liver can develop a very inactive liver or who has an inactive liver can always become an active liver. So, there can be a change from one to another but both cannot be simultaneous.

But why didn’t they send some tea? Because tea will be good.

Dr. Rustom: Now, You say Sun and Moon Shri Mataji. Does it mean whether they are placed in the Kundalini, whether they are placed on the ‘lagna’, they say normally the Sun and the Moon is on the ‘lagna’ and that is a very powerful position.
Shri Mataji: I’m not dealing with astrology as such.
Dr. Rustom: Acha [well], You are just dealing with tattva.
Shri Mataji: Tattvas. Let us go to the tattvas, you see, main thing is the tattvas and you can see in the body of a person, you see. A person who is very thin, say, who doesn’t put on weight and all that, is definitely on the right side. The person who is fat, puts on weight, is on the left side, it’s a general way you can say. In the centre, you will be more on the fatter side, no doubt, because gas. [Hindi]. But such a person will be light, you see.
Dr. Rustom: Not heavy.
Shri Mataji: Not heavy, light, though he may be quite fat to look at. He could be quite fat, because of the gas, you see. And he could suddenly thin down also. He may look thin or may look – ‘medura’ [Hindi] go to that. Sometimes in one day I may look very much thin down. It happens really actually, I mean, my blouses, you see, certainly becomes so tight. If there is a puja, then I can’t take out the blouse. I can thin down absolutely, you see. The same day if you take my photograph, you’ll find two dimensions in my body because of the ‘vayu’ [air], see the ‘prana vayu’ – this thing.

Now this is one point that we have to study the combinations in a person. So now in our vibrately awareness you should find out what is his side. Left or right? So, we scan it first of all, all right? That’s very simple, to find out whether left or right. If he is in the centre the vibrations will be flowing nicely and he will be not so sick. Maybe he might appear to be bloated or fat, but that’s not the point. Because according to doctors a man who is fat is sick and a man who is thin is perfectly all right. It is not true. All the gods and goddesses are all fat people. Even if they want, I mean even if I lose weight anything, I can’t go down very much. Because, you see, the water and the air always controls the- surrounds the chakras and so the person – the more you will expand – even if you are thin, gradually you’ll find there will be expansion only. And they will become heavier all these chakras, because they have to be protected. Because the more they start working it out, you will see them. But you can reduce it because gas can taken out of your body.
So, for people now we have decided now there are three types. So, for the first type of people who are say, left sided, the thing is that they should be asked to put their – raise their right and put down their left.

So – but the hand that is to be towards the photograph should be left. With the right hand you first take it up, like that. The hand that has to raise it is your own hand, raising your own power you see, and taking it out the grace down below towards the photograph.
Now, when you are going to take vibrations from the photograph for the left sided person, put the left hand towards the photograph, left hand, and right hand upward. All right? Is clear cut now?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Mother.
Shri Mataji: Even bandhan should be given that way. 108 times it should be.
Sahaja Yogi: Just one way?
Shri Mataji: Yea. Now, let’s see the left side problems, left-sided. First is the inactivity of the organs.
Inactivity of the organs, you see, that causes allergies, lethargy.
Dr. Rustom: Virus infection?
Shri Mataji: Virus infection. [Hindi]. But now, this we can say basically. But when it is triggered, these left-sided people went [treacly? Inaudible]. Then the- what happens actually, the left [cut in the audio] is controlled with the whole. That’s a different situation. Once it is inactive, all right?
Say your liver is inactive. Till then if it is inactive, we’ll have theses troubles like that. Then when it is triggered, it has been lethargic for so much time, it’s triggered by some spirit. Then the same liver will become cirrhosis of liver or cancer of liver. Then certainly from their sluggishness you see, or you are taken charge of everything, that’s the main thing you can say. A spirit comes in and takes charge.
Dr. Rustom: So, such left-sided people can get liver disease very easily?
Shri Mataji: Any disease.
Dr. Rustom: Hepatitis, cirrhosis, cancer?
Shri Mataji: Cancer, myelitis.
Dr. Rustom: Because of wanting that it is true Shri Mataji is that although in this country we drink so much, but yet cirrhosis of the liver is common in India and they don’t drink and we not know the cause of it. And they put many theories, but probably the Indians are more left-sided so.
Shri Mataji: Indians are left-sided.
Dr. Rustom: So, when they get triggered, they all get cirrhosis.
Shri Mataji: Left-sided, Indians are very left-sided. They are left-sided by nature. You see, drinking is an artificial left-sidedness because they are so egoistical that they cannot face their ego, so that they drink, you know. So that they go onto the left side. It’s an artificial left-sidedness. Drinking is an artificial left-sidedness.
Dr. Rustom: That is true.
Shri Mataji: But Indians, on the whole, are fate, believe in fate, forgetting it. [Hindi]. But I would say Indians are more in the centre, because they don’t sit down and cry only. They always say: ‘Doesn’t matter, it’s your fate.’ So, I would say they are more in the centre, not so much left-sided. But cirrhosis of liver is caused, I tell you why. They have lethargic liver. Among people who take things like – you can say to make it lethargic is vegetarian food. Vegetarian food can cause.
Dr. Rustom: Vegetables are all on the left
Shri Mataji: They are left-sided.
Dr. Rustom: Yes, they are all on left side.
Shri Mataji: Vegetables are left-sided, you see. And that can cause constipation, I mean too much of grow-off, I mean they have diarrhea and things like that. They can be very left-sided, these vegetarians are.
Dr. Rustom: They also have bloated stomachs.
Shri Mataji: Bloated stomachs and they eat too much rice. It’s a very, very [Hindi] you see. So that, but rice also if it is – just carbohydrates is all right, starch and vegetables. They eat lot of starch. Potatoes, starch and vegetables, all these things cause lethargy to the left side. Proteins [Hindi].

Dr. Rustom: Protein digestion starts up in the stomach and then it carries on in the smaller intestines.
Shri Mataji: And liver [Hindi] carbohydrates.
Dr. Rustom: Liver has no part in the protein digestion.
Shri Mataji: [Ne, ne, Hindi] – that’s the food for liver, no doubt. You see, though it doesn’t pay part in the digestion, but it uses the carbohydrates in the body.
Dr. Rustom: Yes. The liver, you see, Shri Mataji. Liver is the only organ in the body that can burn fat.
Shri Mataji: It burns fat.
Dr. Rustom: Yes, it’s the only organ in the body that can burn fat. It is the only organ in the body that can produce carbohydrates.
Shri Mataji: It produces.
Dr. Rustom: It produces from fat, you see. And it also stores carbohydrates. And the way burns fat it reduces the carbohydrates in the citric acid cycle.

Shri Mataji: It transforms it. Also, it removes the poison. Now, if you take the cirrhosis case in India it is because of the eating habits, you can say. Always you will find the vegetarians are frail from any [unsure] because carbohydrates [Hindi]. If they eat nothing than starch, ‘chawal’ or these things-
Dr. Rustom: Potatoes.
Shri Mataji: Potatoes, these things, that thing and liver is sustained too much, I mean it’s given too much food, sort of thing.
Dr. Rustom: The rest of the body is starved.
Shri Mataji: Starved. But liver is also starved. If you eat too much of these things, liver then will be starved. If you give sugar to the liver then also liver will become lethargic. I mean if you want to reduce the activity of the liver then you take sugar or carbohydrates. Did you follow My point?
Dr. Rustom: Yes.
Shri Mataji: But if you take too many carbohydrates already all the time then your liver will not function.

Dr. Rustom: And the other thing the liver needs, Shri Mataji, is protein, cause the liver is pure protein and the structure of liver is based on protein.
Shri Mataji: And if you don’t have protein in your food, the liver will become lethargic.
Dr. Rustom: Weak, yes.
Shri Mataji: Weak and lethargic. When it becomes weak then you get cirrhosis. You understand My point?
Dr. Rustom: Yes, I understand perfectly.
Shri Mataji: Vegetables, carbohydrates [Hindi… ‘chawal’] they’ll have ‘rooties’, but they’ll not have proteins.
That is why the liver is not sustained. Do you follow My point?
Dr. Rustom: And the same thing now is happening to the ashram diet. Because they are eating that sort of diet, so they may become lethargic.
Shri Mataji: No, because they were overactive, their liver was overactive. That’s why I said. But now they should not. They can have now introduced some chicken and things. Chicken is all right.
Dr. Rustom: They have introduced somehow.
Shri Mataji: Chicken and lamb, you can introduce.
All right.

So now we have this one side, this say, liver or anything on the left side. Now, cancer. Which one should we come to now? Liver [Hindi] Swadishthan Chakra.
Mooladhara?
Dr. Rustom: Mooladhara.
Shri Mataji: Let us start with Mooladhara. Now left-sided Mooladhara, impotency?
Dr. Rustom: Hum, hum.

Shri Mataji: Are [Hindi word] – it is inactive.

Dr. Rustom: Impotency. Lack of interest?
Shri Mataji: Lack of interest.
And too much activity on the right-hand side can also become impotency, you see. If a person is overactive in early age, he can become impotent. It’s a result of that, as a result of over-activity.
Sahaja Yogi: Is it like burned out Sun, Mother.
Shri Mataji: It’s like that.
Sahaja Yogi: And the liver burns out and becomes cold [inaudible].
Shri Mataji: Yes, that’s it, that’s it.
Dr. Rustom: And usually the non-realized person, he cannot increase the energy in the sympathetic. Whatever energy he has, that he has.
Shri Mataji: That he will increase and he’ll exhausted it. Naturally, because he’ll exhaust his sympathetic energy, so this thing. Now for that, left side, all of them, we can use fire and we can use candle, though it emits heat. Even the bhoots emits heat, tremendous heat they can emit.

Dr. Rustom: What about copper, Shri Mataji, for left-sided people? Copper?
Shri Mataji: Copper should be good for them.
Dr. Rustom: To drink, heat one copper and drink it.
Shri Mataji: Copper or gold. You see, if you rub gold, say – it is on the stone as we heat, it’s good for them. If they take also for them ‘raksharakh’ on the body or ‘geru’. All red colour things, like geru. You know what is a geru? It’s calcium. Ne, ne, it’s for the children calcium. For the children calcium. Left-sided people give you. Children calcium, ‘geru’. Then ‘bhasma’. Again, you see, if you, say have my photograph or you take it from my ‘yagnya’ [offering], you see. That is for the persons who you have got these.

Dr. Rustom: What I use to use in Derby was, when I use to burn the Agarbattis like Bhasma [black incense].
Shri Mataji: In my photograph.
Dr. Rustom: It comes to your photograph, yes.
Shri Mataji: That could be used, yes, that could be used for the energy condition.
Dr. Rustom: I used to find ‘geru’.
Shri Mataji: ‘Geru’ you can drink. What is ‘geru’ in English language?
Dr. Rustom: It’s mud, is type of earth which you get.
Shri Mataji: Its one of the mud’s from…
Dr. Rustom: You remember the Mahashivaratri Puja in Delhi? You were given…
Shri Mataji: I had a flag, reddish colour. So that is good, for the left side.
Now, Left Mooladhara. Is best they can have, Left Mooladhara, is by putting some fire, charcoal and put some adjwain on top. And have a seat which have got a … [inaudible]
Dr. Rustom: Ah, and sit on that.
Shri Mataji: And sit on that. Take it from [inaudible]. And in India, you see, people can’t sit like this. Then I said, ” Leave it to Ganapati”. I say, this one, they put a ‘tawa’. In the ‘tawa’ you put charcoal, on that you put adjwain and just sit on that and take it. That’s the best for Left Mooladhara. For Left Mooladhara, all right? Did you get that one?

Then, the combinations of Left Mooladhara.
Now, [Hindi] what are the causes? Let’s see the causes of Left Mooladhara. And I said first the over-activity people, secondly, maybe, lack of interest from the very beginning. Third, could be too much conditionings, forth could be –
Dr. Rustom: Black magic and all that?
Shri Mataji: Absolutely. Black magic, spirits – or some sort of a thing like Buddhism, some people from they might get it. Because then, you see, they take them to asceticism. Asceticism takes you away as lack of interest, you can have it. So many gurus can do it, Rajneesh does that. He does, what is it that, he puts the Mooladhara absolutely into activity and talks of sex.
Dr. Rustom: He excites it?
Shri Mataji: No, he doesn’t excite. He cannot excite. What he does, he talks of sex when people cannot have any sex. So, it’s a frustration, he creates a frustration and a kind of an inferiority complex.
Dr. Rustom: Also, I suppose, if you are blasphemers the Mooladhara would catch.
Shri Mataji: Ha?
Dr. Rustom: If you speak blasphemy the Mooladhara chakra feels caught up.
Shri Mataji: It catches very much if you, I mean.
Dr. Rustom: You may [?] it anyway.
Shri Mataji: No, I mean if you say something about the chastity of mother. At that point one should be very careful. Or suspect the chastity of mother. That displeases Ganesha very much.
Dr. Rustom: Of course. That is the ‘maha-pa’ [biggest sin].
Shri Mataji: ‘Maha-pa’
Dr. Rustom: ‘Param-pa’.
Shri Mataji: ‘Param-pa’.
That’s worse than killing your own mother. The ‘maha-pa’. [Hindi]

And also, you see, saying words of [Hindi], vulgar words in the presence of mother.
Dr. Rustom: In the presence, yes, better [inaudible].
Shri Mataji: Inauspicious. Even describing something, before saying, you must warn mother many times that this is a very vulgar word which we’ll have to tell you, because we’ll have to tell you. But ten times it should be that you ask for forgiveness and all that and then it is all right. But otherwise just to come out with the vulgar word that, “He said like this or that” is not good. See, in the protocol of the mother, it’s very good, it is very sensitive.

Then it could come if you are with a woman who is possessed.
Dr. Rustom: Or mad.
Shri Mataji: Or mad, or a woman who is over-aggressive.

Dr. Rustom: Can it come from a possessed mother also?
Shri Mataji: No, mother has nothing to do with that [… some words incomprehensible] Mother is higher. At this position is a woman. And the perversions you see, in life, perversions in life here. Because perversions is nothing but overactivity and then it results in the inactivity.
Dr. Rustom: Perversions is – I have seen, Shri Mataji, it can’t be right-sided sexual activity.
Shri Mataji: No, when it is active, perversion activity can result, results definitely into this. You see, perverted activity is right sided all right. But from there, it results in the Left Mooladhara and then it becomes a habit.
Dr. Rustom: What I have seen is…
Shri Mataji: Then it just becomes just a habit. There is no sexual activity as such but it’s a matter of habit.
Dr. Rustom: That is true. [inaudible]. But it starts in the Right Swadishthana.
Shri Mataji: It starts on the right but ends up there on that-
Dr. Rustom: But then, I have seen the curve. It makes a curve from the Right Swadishthana and then curves into the Left Mooladhara. You see, it’s very – you see, what have weakened them [unsure], I don’t know how it works, but it goes like that. That curve…
Shri Mataji: It can be weakened if you put too much pressure on it. See, they do all kind of things which are not sensitive, you see. And then naturally it will be weakened, isn’t it?
Dr. Rustom: That’s right.
Shri Mataji: Naturally. I mean anything, abuse, it’s an abuse, you see. Perversion is nothing but an abuse nonsense, you see. Then it becomes weakened. And a weak Mooladhara is very dangerous because with a weak Mooladhara you can get so many diseases of muscles, this is multiple [sclerosis].
Dr. Rustom: Acha. Polymyositis.
Shri Mataji: All this.
Dr. Rustom: This polymyositis no one can understand, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Muscles [Hindi] In English I don’t know what you call. That it goes back to its own position and [Hindi]. Flexibility.
Dr. Rustom: Elasticity.

Shri Mataji: Elasticity of the muscles by which it stands up, you see, the direction of the hand and all that. All these positions are done through the power of Shri Ganesha. That is His power. So, then that happens, that is lost.
Dr. Rustom: Muscles become flabby.
Shri Mataji: Muscles become– what do you call that?
Dr. Rustom: It loses its tonic. Flabby.
Shri Mataji: Flabby. It cannot raise your legs, you see. It loses its elasticity.
Dr. Rustom: And heaviness then come.
Shri Mataji: In Sanskrit whatever this ‘Stithi stapaka’ [position; fix, establish] ‘Stithi stapaka’ it makes your state, establishes your state, whichever state you want to have.
Dr. Rustom: That’s right. ‘Sthiti stapaka’.
Shri Mataji: ‘Stithi stapaka’. ‘Stithi stapaka’. So, that is lost and that’s why Shri Ganesha – then you develop all these troubles of the muscles. Whatever you call them, I don’t know. Whatever you call that in your language.
Dr. Rustom: There so many myositis, [inaudible] What are the other muscle diseases? There is polymyositis.
Sahaja Yogi: They are even changing the names…
Shri Mataji: That’s very true. That’s why I’m at a loss myself after names.
Dr. Rustom: There are lot of them, Shri Mataji.
Sahaja Yogi: Lots of them.
Shri Mataji: Lots of them. So, the basis is that one of the chakras has to be Mooladhara. So, in anyone of these diseases, first give a bandhan with the candle to the Mooladhara.
Dr. Rustom: Something that is-
Shri Mataji: First! And Mahaganesh- Ganesha ‘s names. You’ll be amazed, immediately they’ll start raising their feet.

Sahaja Yogi: Can you work from this area Mother, with the candle? That Ganesha-
Shri Mataji: That’s second time. Because, you see, it can work out anywhere. So, the main point is there. Then it could be at the point where we can say the Swadishthana point, could be at Vishuddhi point or could be at Agnya point. But first is that.
First is Shri Ganesha. Then you must back at Shri Ganesh with other combinations. You can feel it on your hands also. But some people don’t feel Ganesha at all.
You see, for example, to feel Ganesha you have to be sensitive for Ganesha. Like those who have been hurt more, on Ganesha in any way, can feel Ganesha fast. Indians don’t feel Ganeshas so much. Ganesha’s chakra, they don’t feel so much. It’s in the west [inaudible].
Dr. Rustom: I suppose that their Ganesha is so strong that they can-
Shri Mataji: Is a sore point here [unsure].
Dr. Rustom: Sensitive.
Shri Mataji: It’s a sore point. It is hurt already, so you feel it more.
There is up to Left Swadishthana. You have a Left Swadishthana. First thing you will feel is the Left Swadishthan.
Dr. Rustom: Always.
Shri Mataji: Anybody will have Left Swadishthana, Rustom will come out with left Swadishthana first. Though that person may not be having Left Swadishthana so strong; but even the slightest – because it’s a hurt Left Swadishthana, you’ll feel it more. So, in judging a person, you must always keep your chakras which are permanently there, in you.
All right, so these all muscular troubles come from them.

Dr. Rustom: Shri Mataji, one thing about the “polymyositis muscular troubles” is that they happen in children. They start in children. It that some “purvas janmas” [from previous life]?
Shri Mataji: “Purva janmas” of course is there in children also. You see, the “samskaras” [conditionings] of parents are very important. Parents are very important at the time when a child is to be born. What sort of parents they have, what kind of life they live. Supposing a father, he goes to a prostitute.
Dr. Rustom: Then the whole marriage is destroyed.
Shri Mataji: That’s it. You see, the mother is, say, flirts with another man when she is pregnant. That time, it’s a question of complete purity, otherwise child is affected. These are naturally aborted, naturally. Atmosphere, you see, supposing if the mother is pregnant and – here it is so common. They are at least bothered about the auspiciousness. The pregnant mother will-
Dr. Rustom: Smoke?
Shri Mataji: Smoke. Not only smoke. Will go to parties, flirt with other man, do every sort of a dirty thing and all that. See, that can affect Mooladhara.

Also, there are some others who don’t understand how to live with the children as far as the sex is concerned and they are very, sometimes, very aggressive also with the children: how to handle the sex carefully, you see, when they’re washing, bathing and all that. They can be quite… –
Dr. Rustom: Acha, ah.
Shri Mataji: Sort of very rough handling of the child. They’ve got rough handling to the child.

Dr. Rustom: That happens and You see, that happens especially in this country, Shri Mataji, where they are producing a type of adult’s disease, phimosis, You see, where the skin gets all constricted. And it is very common in England, very common in England, where in India it is very rare to find it.
Shri Mataji: Well, in India you see, even if you are poor, as far as children are concerned, we are trained very well how to handle the child and it is very auspiciousness, this is the main point! Ne? There’s nothing- it is deeper but it affects more the chakra of Mooladhara. Because it is auspiciousness. It’s the chakra of auspiciousness. So, it affects you see. Even if your mind is dirty, if you are pregnant and if you have dirty thoughts, it affects. It’s a question of auspiciousness with it, which people don’t understand in the West at all, auspiciousness is lost.
Sahaja Yogi: We need to go to India, Mother, to start to understand it.
Shri Mataji: India, for the Mooladhara, is first. You see, you sit on the ground of Mother India. She sucks in. She is very pure for that. For that, that it is the best. India is the best for Mooladhara, no doubt. There is nothing better than that. Because the Kundalini itself is that, so She clears you out at Mooladhara. Especially in Maharashtra, I think.
The Maharashtra [inaudible] is really beautiful. And you people take their bath in that mud. In India, on the river they’ll go, get some mud, put it to their body and jump in the water. Have their bath’s finished. They are clean, “nirmals”. How many Indians, you see – this smelling business is only special of Western people.
Dr. Rustom: I use to notice that, Shri Mataji. In India sometimes, you see, I’m for one week or ten days if you are travelling you don’t bathe. But I never smell like here. Here even bathing twice a day you sometimes smell.
Shri Mataji: That’s true. This place is a – I don’t know what is the reason, but it comes from Mother Earth and the fragrance comes from Mother Earth. So, one of the things comes from the lethargy, this of thing could be also. Right side Swadishthana – Mooladhara catching, you always get bad smell from it.
Dr. Rustom: Hmm, Right Mooladhara.
Shri Mataji: Right, Left Mooladhara. You see there is a funny smell in both the cases.
Dr. Rustom: I know the sort of smell, it’s like a sick smell. Burning smell. I used to notice it a lot here.
Shri Mataji: And from the left-sided things here, I think Mooladhara you can get children which are not regular or something, you see, because if the left side is caught up you might get children with mental problems also. Left side is caught up, Left Mooladhara is caught up. You see, is a question of mind, it’s the base of mind.
Dr. Rustom: “Manas”.
Shri Mataji: “Manas”. The whole manas starts from there.
Dr. Rustom: Epilepsy in children.
Shri Mataji: Yes, epilepsy in children you can get if your Mooladhara is not clean, if you are having-
[End of the recording]