Public Program Day 2, Talk about Christ

Sala Borromini, Biblioteca Vallicelliana, Rome (Italy)


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Second Public Program, “Talk about Christ”. Rome (Italy), 9 September 1983.

I bow to all the seekers of reality. To know the reality is only possible if you’re connected with your spirit. Without that, whatever you know is all on human level.

Now, somebody asked Me a question, that if you just say, “’Hail Mary’ or if you say Lord’s Prayer, then will it not also allow the plants to grow?” Now it is our experience that it did not do anything by saying, “Hail Mary” or Lord’s Prayer, so far. By chance, something has happened, but it was not definite, that it will happen, when you said all these things. It is very simple to understand, that without the connection with the divine, how can we communicate?

For example, if this instrument is made, it also has got with it, the wire, to connect itself to the mains. So, if you do not connect this instrument to the mains, it doesn’t work, the instrument is artificial. So when you say “Hail Mary” or you say Lord’s Prayer, you are telephoning to God without the connection within. This has given two kinds of reactions to people. First of all, to say that there must be something wrong with us. So God did not listen to us or to say that there is no God and this is all not true. It is today, at this time, the whole world is on the brink of giving up the faith in God. Because it is a blind faith. You are told that this is the faith you have to take without asking any questions.

You may call it any “ism”, like the question was that, “What is the difference between Christianism, Christ and self-realization?” Any “ism” is not a free thing. So I would say that Christ is the truth. But whatever we have built up with our projections, if it is Christianism, then it is not true. If it was the reality – we should logically approach the subject – then, we would have become different people, being Christians.

Now let us see, how Christ’s life is not depicted in the so-called, Christian religious people. Of course, it is true, that this happens with every religion, because every religion has become a “ism” now. But as the question is about Christianism, then I would like to deal with it as it is. So we must find out, logically, what we have achieved through believing into things like this. Now, just see Christ on the cross forgave the people who crucified Him. What compassion and what love, that He was worried about the people who crucified Him. But if you see the Christian nations, say Europeans, as you can call them, I mean, they have been one of the most aggressive races. You have to admit it. I went to South America, to Chile and to Argentina and I couldn’t find one aboriginal there, not one soul left there. “What has happened to them?” I asked. They said you can just meet them in some museum, as a picture. So, despite all Christianism, what we have been are, we are aggressive nations. So one has to realize that this doesn’t give us what Christ wanted us to be – to forgive those who aggress against us. That these nations thought them to be superior nations, higher nation, that they had right to suppress everybody else around.

The second thing Christ has said, that it is said in the Ten Commandments that “Thou shall not commit adultery”, but I say verily to you “Thou shalt not have adulterous eyes”. It is hard to find a person without adulterous eyes in the west, I must confess it. So this has not made us more righteous, more compassionate, more loving towards the whole humanity.

The third thing, which is even more dangerous, is that Christ has said that you have nothing to do with dead spirits. Today, all the Christian religions or all the Christian nations are indulging into some kind of this pursuit. The first basic thing, most surprising is that all dead bodies are in the church, of these bishops or somebody, who are not even realized souls. So these are not churches but like cemeteries. We Indians feel frightened to step on them because we know that you are not supposed to walk on the dead bodies like that. So, that is not Christ at all. None of His qualities, you find, being imbibed by following Christianism.

Now, the other teachings which are out of Christ’s life is that His message of His life is resurrection. But not His cross. He suffered for us and it’s the end of all our sufferings.

Now, on a subtler way, try to understand where is Christ positioned within us and then you will understand what I am trying to tell you. In this picture, if you see, the two sides, the left and the right side cross at a point where you see this red mark on my head, inside the brain. Where there is the optic chiasma, where it crosses, near the pituitary and the pineal body. There lies the principle of Christ. Now, if you see that the Kundalini’s door to pass through is that one, is the constricted part, is the door, that’s why it is said that Christ is the door and everyone has to pass through that. Because over-activity of the sympathetic nervous system has created this kind of a very, very solid type of attachment which cannot be crossed easily. Because of the ego and superego crossing over each other, they press on each other like two very hard balloons. This is the cross.

Now, what Christ has shown by His life, that eternal life is not killed by anything, by His resurrection. This was the greatest job, is to pass through that very narrow space, crucifying Himself, He proved it that life has to be resurrected.

On the Easter day, we give everyone an egg. But we don’t know why we do it. Now, this egg represents our state, of human state and from the egg, with transformation, you come out as the bird, as the second birth. So you have to become the bird after this egg stage because your ego and superego press you here and you get your own “I” ness, like an egg.

So this is actually the second birth which Christ has said that you are to be born again. But we just believe that we are born again and we just live in this faith which is dangerous.

By ascending through this door, which is the Christ, you reach into the area called limbic area in human beings, which is the Kingdom of God. But this portion also has to be pierced through to get out of it completely to feel the source that is around it. This is the reality of baptism. You can see with your naked eyes, in many people the pulsation of the Kundalini. If it is pulsating, that means there is some sort of an obstruction in the being. But if it is a normal body and a normal personality, then Kundalini shoots off just like a jet and comes up. This is what has to happen in reality if you want to have your second birth. It’s the subtler awareness that comes into you. You start feeling in your hands, the subtle all-pervading power around you.

So, as I told you yesterday, no use giving a sermon, talking about you – talking is not going to create the reality. We can talk anything we want to. Does it become reality? And He has predicted that “I’ll send you the Holy Ghost; I’ll send you the counselor; I will send you the redeemer; I’ll send you the comforter”. If there were two disciples of Christ, they would have waited for this time to come. But somehow or other, anybody who put forward the idea of Holy Ghost, they shunned it, they never talked about it. Of course, it did introduce Christ to people, also told what is the righteous life is. But gradually it started losing that effect upon itself, as we had at the time of [UNCLEAR WORD] and started becoming more a sort of a political institution that deals with politics. Christ was never a politician, was He? He was a carpenter’s son and He lived like a carpenter’s son. Did He live in big palaces? Whatever is His status of life, He lived with it. So one has to realize that God’s work does not need any money. All the God’s work is free.

And whatever is vital is the simplest of all. Look at a tree. How it grows from a little seed into such a big tree and then how it flowers and then after the bloom, how does it become the fruits? Who does all that difficult work? Now, when you’re raising the Kundalini, many a times, I have seen, it stops at this center. If you’re too much futuristic, if you think too much, if you plan too much, then this center catches. Or else, at the back side, because it has two petals, so at the back side of it, if you are a person, get dominated too much by the spiritualists, or the charismatics and all this kind of thing, then the left side catches at the back. So what you have to do at that time is to take the name of Christ – not the person who is not connected, but the one who is connected. You can say Lord’s Prayer. You say thrice, the Lord’s Prayer and the Kundalini rises up there. But not the person who is not yet realized and who does not know exactly how to say the Lord’s Prayer. But the one who has realization and who is a twice-born real Christian can say that. All these years, all these Christianisms have created an army of haters of Christ. It is very surprising. When you talk to some of them, they say that we believed in Christ. Still we suffered so much. Like I found it in Argentina, people said that “He was poor, He has made us poor also“.

Apart from that, when people find out that there is no truth in all these things, they form groups against the God’s own principle that is Christ. You’ll be surprised, in London so many churches are sold as pubs. So we have two groups of people – those who have denied Christ and those who are blindly supposed to be with Him.

But reality is in the center. Not in denying nor in accepting. Because if He is the truth, then one has to get to know through the spirit.

Enlightenment that they call it self-realization or they call it the second birth or baptism – is all just the same – and in Quran, it is called as to be the peer are all the same things, are done by only one thing, is the awakening of the Kundalini.

Actually, as soon as you cross this point through your Kundalini, you get certain powers. You get the power to cure others. You can raise the power of other people up to this point and so up to the Sahastrara, up to the epitome of this, you can take it out from there, what we call the Brahmarandra is there, whole of the Brahma, is the all-pervading power.

So the Kundalini is the spiritual power of the primordial mother. As she rises, one by one, by the centers, she nourishes them, as the womb does nourishment. First thing that happens to you, that you feel good health. So many diseases can be cured only if Kundalini can come up to your Nabhi chakra. But subtle ways happen to you when she crosses over from this center. You become thoughtlessly, aware – you become. So you find there is no thought. But you’re aware. If you want to think, you can think. Otherwise, you are in silence. So one has to understand that it is not possible to stop our thoughts by ourselves.

Now, when the thought is stopped, what happens is that now, see for example, I see this beautiful painting on top of this nice ceiling and I see it without thinking, I do not think who has made it, how much time he must have taken, how did he go up, how much it must have cost… There is no thought at all. So, like a lake, which has no ripple in it, all that is created around it reflects completely into that. Now, that joy, the joy of the creator, which came through the artist, is all there and I just feel the joy pouring down my head like that. So, a thought rises and falls off and another thought rises and falls off. Now, there is a space in between these two thoughts. Thought may come either from the past or from the future. When it comes, we see but we don’t see where it disappears. In between that, is a very small space of present. But we live either in the past or in the future. But if I say that you have to be in the present, absolutely then you can’t do it. It’s not possible because always there are thoughts, pushing you either to the present [PAST?] or to the future. But when you become thoughtless, then you are in the present.

So one has to realize that the first consciousness you develop is called as thoughtless awareness. In the “Patanjali Yogashastra”, it’s called “Nirvichar Samadhi”.

Now, once you have this, you have to go to the second stage, when you rise above this and pierce through this, then this state starts settling down and the gap starts increasing in size. So that’s how your spiritual growth starts now.

Then you start using this power which flows through your hand and you reach a state where you become, we call it as “Nirvikalpa Samadhi”, where there is no doubt.

All the knowledge dawns upon you. As you have seen Eduardo or any one of them, they now know the knowledge. So knowledge can be only known through the spirit and that is why we have to be the spirit. Before that, it is darkness, like the story of the elephant, everybody reaches some mental conclusions.

Like, there were nine blind people and they wanted to feel the elephant. So somebody felt the leg and he said the elephant is like a big pillar. Another quarreled with him – he said no, when he felt the tail, it is like a rope.

And somebody felt his ears – he said no, it is like a fan. And they were all fighting with each other, thinking that they were absolutely correct.

But when their eyes will open they’ll say that everything is correct and elephant is something different. Like that, happens to human beings when there is light. When you enter in the room, I’ve to just tell you that there’s a switch and when you put on the switch and the lights will come in. Otherwise, there’s darkness. And you just switch on and you’re amazed to see that the whole room is enlightened. But behind this procedure, there’s a big history of electricity, there’s a big force working, there’s a big organization.

Like one gentleman in London got his realization and he was little bit skeptical about it. And he said that in collective consciousness you can feel another person, isn’t it? He said that I’m worried about my father. I want to find out what’s the matter with my father. So I said, “Alright! You just feel with your hands, find out”. His father was in Scotland. He telephoned to him and first he felt it and he said that Mother, I’m catching here on this chakra, a very tremendous heat and burning. Now, these centers are all for the father and these, for the mother. And this finger is for the Vishuddhi Chakra. So I told him he must be down with severe bronchitis. He telephoned to his father. His mother came on the phone and she said he’s down with very severe bronchitis. Exactly, the same words as I said. So when the Kundalini comes above this, you become collectively conscious. And when you start establishing yourself, then you also become doubtlessly aware.

Now another lady has asked Me a question that you become a superior man and another, better man than others. But in a way that we understand superior is like somebody who is like Hitler. It is not like that you become. But you become a person who can witness the whole thing as a drama. You’re not involved in the whole game. Like if you’re in the water, you have fear of the water, but if you’re taken in the boat, you can see the water very well. You’re in no way superior or you have a superior complex than the man who’s drowning. On the contrary, you have such compassion and such power that you can save that man who’s drowning. Actually, when a man is the super-conscious, then he is beyond any domination from any habits. He’s a man of great courage also. But not for domination but for protection of the ones who are suffering.

Like Christ, when He saw Mary Magdalene was stoned, He stood up and said those who have not committed any sin, can throw the stone at Me. But, He has nothing to do with prostitution. So people try to confuse everything and call it religion. Like our Church of England owns the [UNCLEAR] which is the property lived by prostitutes. And when they were asked, “Why do you do it?” they said we are protecting them like Mary Magdalene, you see, living on their earnings. When Mary Magdalene came to Christ, she was transformed completely into a beautiful, sinless person.

So, one has to understand, in this ascent, you do not dominate others, nor you take domination from anyone. Christ crucified Himself. He need not have done that. It was a drama He had to play. I told you why. Because He had to cross through that gate. He deliberately did not tell that His mother was the Holy Ghost, the power behind Him, because He didn’t want to direct the attention of the other people on Her. Otherwise, He would have come out in His true self. And the whole drama would have been finished.

Christ has got eleven powers of destruction, the highest. And when He will come on His white horse He is just going to destroy all those who have denied the divine. Michelangelo, who was a realized soul and Sistine chapel, is a very good example to understand what is going to happen to us. He has not shown Christ as a hanky-panky fellow, with only bones hanging down, miserable, but a robust young person, throwing people, right and left. If you go and see Sistine chapel, you’ll realize what I’m saying, that He’s standing at the Agnya – the whole of the Kundalini’s shown. The Agnya chakra and on top is the Kingdom of God. While I was so surprised that at the table there, was kept another miserable picture of Christ, with all the bones showing. I don’t know why they want Christ to look like that. He carried such a big cross on His shoulders. Let all these people try once. With that tubercular-like looking body, do you think He could have taken that cross across? I don’t know how they can represent God like that. To Me, it all again a kind of a play on your mind.

Now it is for you to understand that you first get your realization. That’s your second birth. And then you become your own guide. These vibrations that will flow from your hand and from your head will guide you. Now, if you ask a question, “Is there God?” tremendous vibrations will flow. When it is positive, then tremendous vibration will flow. But if it is negative, then the vibrations will stop. Maybe also get some burning. I’ll tell all about it tomorrow again, in complete details. But to end up, I’ll tell you how relatively you can decide that vibrations are true.

In India also, we have great fanatics. And once, My program was arranged in their hall. They call themselves Brahmins. Brahmins are the one who are called Dwijah, means twice-born. And Brahmins means, the one who knows the all-pervading power that is Brahma. But they are self-certified people. And I did not know that they opposed My going there in the hall because I was not a Brahmin, according to them. And they came and sat in front row with a very aggressive mood before Me. I just said, “Who are the Brahmins among you. Come forward. Who think they are Brahmins should come forward”.

They all said we are Brahmins and their hands were shaking like this before Me. I said “Then why your hands are shaking?” So they said, “You are Shakti – myself, the power. That’s why they’re shaking.” So they said, “Look at these others, they’re also shaking, few.” I said, “Go and ask them.” The man who brought them, he said “They’re all certified lunatics and I have brought them here to get realization so that they get well.” So all this kind of faith, blind faith, and believing that you are on top of the world is another kind of a lunacy or beginning of a lunacy.

When you rise in your ascent, when you receive the blessings of your spirit, you become a wise, kind, compassionate personality. You’re fearless and you speak everything through your heart. You cannot purchase such a person. You cannot give him anything whatsoever. If you give him one flower, he gives you ten flowers. He cannot live on you as parasites. Such a person has no interest in your position, your purse, in your wives. Such a person has to be above everything else, so the bliss of God flows, so that you’re blessed.

May God bless you!

I have tried to cover most of the answers to your questions that you gave Me in writing, except for you asked Me how to fight the negative forces, about which I’ll tell you tomorrow. And if you have any other questions you can describe them now. I’ll answer them. Thank you. Now, tomorrow we are having a program in another hall. I know where. You all know about it – I hope so, which is a bigger hall and hope to see you there. Now you please be seated. I want to give you realization.

H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi