Public program held in Auckland (New Zealand). 16 May 1987.

Sahaja Yogi: Collectivity is the essence of this change, this particular time now.

I mentioned before that, that in the past, how Realization has been gained individually. Now, this time around, is the possibility of it being gained collectively, through the grace of Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi. Do you want me to talk anymore, Mother? – Should I talk anymore? Shri Mataji: Yes, please. It’s all right.

Sahaja Yogi: I shall talk a little more. What was I talking about?

Sahaja Yogi: Come in, sit. Oh yes, I was making a point that, that in the past it has always been a very individual, gaining your Self-realization has always been a very individual exercise.

One person would gain, one person who would work very hard usually. But now, they’re saying because we have this particular age, because we are knocking on the door of the age of Aquarius, because we are leaving – thank God – the age of confusion and false teaching behind us, now this could happen collectively, en masse. There is the possibility of gaining Self-realization, gaining this experience, gaining this happening, many people – one time gaining. So, again, coming back to the point I made earlier, there are two things: one, the desire to gain one Self-realization and then, a second desire, which is the desire to establish it and develop it. And I’m sure Shri Mataji will be talking tonight about both those things. Sahaja Yoga is basically those sorts of techniques and practices whereby we have the opportunity to develop, to establish and develop our Realization. What does that mean? I mean, why, why? What? Why?

So, what? So, why should we be interested in developing now our Self-realization once we’ve gained it? Well, again, it’s related to the times in which we live. Pretty well everybody here tonight would have worked quite a bit over the last few lifetimes, to reach this point, now. Most of us here would have gone through all sorts of things, would have gone through the desire for money, for power, for physical gratification, for all sorts of things, in the hope of finding happiness and peace and understanding. We’ve come to the conclusion that we haven’t got, we haven’t got there. And having discarded all that, we reach the point where, ” Right, what is it that satisfies?” What is it that can give us that peace, that understanding? Well, what is it? It is the connection with the Divine.

The physical connection with the Divine. It’s the only thing that could give us peace, joy and the other by-products it can give us like health and other silly things like finding a parking spot if you like. It might sound silly but in a way it’s not. It’s like, if one is about God’s business and the energy of God is flowing through us, then why shouldn’t God find us a parking spot when we need it? One of those things that happen. So, here we are, at a very particular time, very particular age, sitting in front of a very particular person, Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi.

Shri Mataji: Hello, Brian, I don’t know what you have said it. Just tell. Can you come? What did you tell them?

Sahaja Yogi: Oh, I just talked, I talked little about the three…

Shri Mataji: Chakras.

Sahaja Yogi: The three gunas… and very little about the chakras, nothing very much at all. And basically, I worked I summed up – really you heard more or less what I said before.

Shri Mataji: All right. I bow to all the seekers of truth. We are all seekers of truth, from the very beginning. We believe that we’ll get joy and happiness through various means and various paths we trot. For example, some people believe that they must have lots of money. Some believe they must be in power. It goes on like that, till you reach a point where you find out that those who have been running towards all these goals are not happy people.

They have not achieved what they have been seeking. So, we turn to God. When we turn to God also, there sometimes we get very much disillusioned because those people who are talking about God are also either money-oriented or power-oriented. They are not happy people. That makes us very frustrated sometimes, but the search is going on within ourselves, consciously or unconsciously. We are trying to seek the truth, and this seeking is given to us by God himself. We want to seek, all the time something that is pleasurable, that is happiness, that is joy. Now here as he has told you, this is the machinery that works out our Self-realisation. So, whatever I am going to tell you is the knowledge of the roots. Through science and through other knowledge, the human knowledge, we know about the tree.

But we have to become subtler beings to know about our roots. This knowledge was known in our country, long time back, not that I have started anything new. Only thing, I have been able to devise a method by which many people can get Realization at the same time. The old methods were to cleanse yourself, to go into all kinds of cleansing and chakras by centre by centres to evolve a personality and it would take many years, maybe many lives. But in those days, when we are in such a chaos, and all the time we are facing a challenge it is important that it should happen the other way around. The other way around is like this, that first you get your Realization, somehow. You may not be clean, there may be problem, there may be physical problem there may be other problems within you – doesn’t matter. You get your Realization, means you get the light in your hand. Once you get the light in your hand, you can yourself see what’s wrong with you. Say, I am holding a snake in my hand and somebody says, “You are holding a snake, so throw it away.”

So, I wouldn’t like it, somebody challenging my ego that as if I don’t know what is a snake. In the dark, I cannot see the snake. But if there is light, I’ll throw it away immediately. That is the principle on which Sahaja Yoga works out. Sahaja means, “sa” means “with” and “ja” is “born with you” means a spontaneous happening of your union, of your attention, with the Divine, the All-pervading Power of God’s love. This All-pervading Power has got vibratory awareness in it. And it gives you also that vibratory awareness, once you are connected with it. Not only that, but this vibratory awareness starts flowing through your fingertips, here, and you can feel what is wrong with you or what is wrong with others. Is a very simple method of deducting how to correct yourself in the light of the Spirit. When you become one with the Spirit this vibratory awareness starts flowing through your hands and through your fontanel bone area.

This is what Christ called as the baptism. This is the real baptism. it’s a happening, it’s a living process. He has talked of the living God and the living process, not of the dead – just comes somebody and put water on your head and say that “You are baptised.” In the same way, Hindus have a custom of giving Realization in a way that they call it, is a ritual in which they say, “Now you have become a brahmin.” By paying some money to some priest, they think now he has become a brahmin, now he is certified. This is all artificial, this is not real. In every religion they have taken this as a ritual. To form a ritual by that artificial ritual they think they can certify that you are a realised soul or you are a “peer” in the Islamic religion or you are a Christian in a Christian religion or in any religion like that. To be honest, these are all artificial methods.

Real method is, that this triangular bone which has got this Kundalini as in itself – is the force, has to rise actually just like a primule in a seed. It’s a living process, like a seed when you put it in the Mother Earth the primule of that seed just rises. and comes upward, by itself. It comes upward and creates the plant. It is not that you pull out the primule and say that, “This is the plant” or you just bless the seed and say, “Now the plant has been created.” It’s a living process. Now we have reached at a stage, where we call ourselves as human beings and you know very well that our central nervous system has achieved lots of sensitivities which the animals don’t have. Like, they don’t understand beauty, animals don’t understand dirt, filth. You can take an animal through dirt and filth and you cannot take a human being through that. Because a human being can understand but a dog or a horse cannot understand that this is dirty or filthy.

What happens really is that human beings have developed within themselves the sensitivity to beauty or to the filth, automatically. What have you done? Have you paid for it? Have you read something? Nothing of the kind. Automatically, spontaneously, it has evolved within us these powers of sensitivity. Now, the powers of sensitivity are there, but still, we are not at the absolute point which we can see the way there is chaos all around us. People are in a chaotic condition. Now you see, there are diseases coming up, you can’t explain how they come up, people are doing wrong things without understanding this is wrong or right. All kinds of things are happening in this world, with all difficulties, with all problems and we do not know what is the solution of it and why these are happening. After all, if we are the epitome of our evolution, if we are the top people in the evolution, why should there be problems, why should there be any struggles, why there should be any diseases?

But we are not. We have to still, jump one stage higher, and that is the stage which we call as the Spirit. Every one of them who are great saints, or who, we can say, are incarnations, prophets, have talked about this, that you have to be connected with God. Even in the Quran, in the beginning it is said that you are to be connected with God. Otherwise, you can never understand Him, and if you do anything in His name, it will be all wrong, cruel or horrible. Very clearly said. Also, there is something good Quran has written, that when the time of resurrection will come – that is also described in the Bible – your hands will speak. Now, hands cannot speak. But the sensitivity of the hands and the fingers will become such, that through your fingertips you will be able to diagnose the problems of other people and yourself, and if you know how to correct them, you can do it. Now this is a living process, any living process – a sort of a flower becoming a fruit.

You can see very clearly a flower becoming a fruit is a living process. You cannot pay to the tree or to the Mother Earth, “All right, we pay you so much money. Now you give us fruits”. Money is not understood by living processes. I mean supposing somebody is having a breathing trouble and you show him some money, will he stop breathing trouble? Will he be able to stop? No! It’s a living process. Again, I say, it’s a living process. And when it is a living process, you cannot pay for it, nor can you put in any effort for it. It is effortless. “Sahaj” also means effortless, spontaneous.

Effortlessly it should work out. You don’t have to put in effort like standing on your head or going to Himalayas. There’s no need to do all that. There’s no need to fast, there’s no need to torture your body in any way. I cannot understand why people believe that we should torture our body so that we can become divine. Is a wrong idea altogether. Because it is said – at least for Christians I can’t understand. Krishna, at the time of Krishna also, He didn’t say so, but then Christ came after that.

You see, Krishna is manifested by Christ later on. Everybody has manifested at different levels – like in a tree, you find at different times, something appears. They are the flowers on the same tree of life. There’s no difference between them at all. But when you pluck the flowers and say, “This is mine, this is mine” – with the dead flowers you can fight. This is exactly what has happened today, that’s why they cannot relate them to each other. But Christ Himself has said, that, “Those who are not against Me are with Me”. Who are with Him? He didn’t have much time to talk to people. He had only three and a half years public life, and then he was crucified on a foolish thing like saying that he is a traitor and all kinds of things.

He had no chance even to tell people about something subtler. And this is something one should understand, that in London I was struggling with seven, seven people for four years. Of course, now it’s different. Now I don’t have to do that, because once you have established the foundation, the things are better. But it was so. So, imagine for three and a half years, what could Christ tell about things? Whatever he has said is also very much clearly understood when you are a realised soul. If you are not a Realized soul, you cannot even understand Him. Because He said that, “My God has asked Me to do this. My Father has asked Me”.

And He got Himself crucified and we say that He died for our sins. So, now, why should we suffer more? He carried the cross. What is the need for us to suffer? Are we going to suffer more than He has suffered? Is anybody can carry, is anyone of those who say that, “We must suffer” – let them carry a cross for a while and we’ll see how much they can suffer. Is an absolutely wrong idea. God doesn’t want you to suffer at all. No, He doesn’t want. He loves you, He’s the most loving Father.

He doesn’t want to suffer you. He loves you and He will do everything that is possible for you to enter into the Kingdom of God. So, at this time, when we are faced with such difficulties – people are telling Me that, “Now we are waiting for all the seven stars to come in and the whole world to collapse”. Because they don’t want to live anymore. This is the condition, this frustration that we are into, but I tell you, there’s nothing to worry about. Whatever may be your situation, whatever may you have suffered with, whatever maybe your social problems or your physical problems, or your family problems, financial problems, all can be solved with one shot, because there’s the Mother Kundalini sitting there. And when She rises She passes through the six centres, which represent different, different capacities in you, enlightens them and She grants you all these things that I have said. But apart from that, you get connected with the All-pervading power and you develop a collective consciousness within you, collective consciousness. It’s not just saying, “We are brothers and sisters”. You just start feeling another person on your fingertips and you love that person.

And also, you start feeling yourself on your fingertips. This is the greatest discovery in the whole world, I should say, that people can get their Self-realization. All other discoveries can complicate things, can give problems, can be disputed, but, this theory cannot, because this makes you a person with absolute values. One doesn’t have to tell, “Now you be righteous”, I’ve seen drug addicts giving up drugs overnight, alcoholics giving up alcohols overnight. Even Brian was telling Me the other day he used to smoke eighty cigarettes and then from next day he just stopped. I didn’t know, but he told Me. He was in crutches when he came to Me. So, I have seen things happening like that, and it works out. But for you it is better that you get your Self-realization and you know about it what it is. Actually, to get Self-realization you don’t have to know all these things.

It is something like, to switch on the lights, you just have to know where the switch is. You don’t have to know about the electricity, about the organisation behind it, about the history behind it. Just this much – where is the switch. In the same way, for your Realization, you have to be switched on, that’s all. But then, later on you should know, what is the mechanism that is worked out because if you want to give Realisation to others if you want to help others, then you must know about it. The peace – we talk about we should have peace, we should have no atomic energy, we should have not this problem, that problem. Everybody is suffering from sense of insecurity from each other. Russia is afraid of America, America is afraid of Russia, everybody is afraid of each other. We are human beings. Even animals are not so much afraid, as we are afraid of our brothers and sisters.

Why should we be so much afraid? Because we have not reached that stage where we are collective, we are one, where we feel that we are the part and parcel of the whole. As you say, the microcosm becomes one with the macrocosm. The microcosm starts feeling the whole. One drop becomes the ocean. That’s what has to happen. And when that happens, all your theories become absolutely actualised. Like the other day somebody said, “Mother, are you a capitalist or a communist?” I said, “I am both”. “How?”

I said, “I am a capitalist because I have powers, and I am a communist because I must distribute them and share them with others. So, I am a communist as well as a capitalist, both things together”. Is so simple as that. So, you get completely integrated and all these false notions and theories drop out. These are all dogmas which are artificial, but basically a human being is the most beautiful thing God has created. The most beautiful thing God has created is the human being. We have not known the beauty of human beings. We can only know through the eyes of the Spirit. When you become the Spirit, then you start enjoying the beauty of another person. Whatever may be the race, religion – all these things do not come into your mind.

From outside you cannot remove all these things. You cannot remove the differentiations between human beings, you cannot. By logic you cannot. But by becoming realised you automatically do it. You just don’t see any difference, because where you go is the subtle form of yourself, which is the Kundalini. You just see a person in his chakras and not in his face, in his dress, in his status or in his money. Now also, there were questions raised the other day about so many false people have been preaching about yoga, this, that and all that. How to make out a false person from the real one. The first criteria should to be, “Does he take any money from you?”. Finished.

On that point you can cancel most of them. But there are so many institutions which take money in the name of God and run them. This is also very wrong. You should not. If you want to run an institution, in the name of God, you need not take any money from anyone. What you can do is to, whatever it is – like Me now, we have no organisation, no membership, nothing of the kind. We are so much attached to each other, that we are not bothered about taking money for a combination or anything. For example, if I’ve come here, I’m living with Brian. If I go to Australia, I live with another person. If they come there, they come to My house.

At the most, they pay for travelling – that’s all. And that too through a travel agent, they don’t pay Me or to anyone. So, there is no need to have big accounting and big organisations and money and all this nonsense, because this money is a thing that creates problem. You must have heard now, there’s a… one person is found with so much of millions of money, with him who was saying he is a born again. This kind of born again are not – this is self-certification; just a self-certification, “I am born again”. A born again has certain powers. One power he has that he can raise the Kundalini of others and give them Realisation, firstly. He doesn’t take any money for it; he doesn’t talk of money or anything. He can raise his hand and give Realization to others. He can feel the vibrations of another person and he can tell what’s wrong with that person and also, he can correct himself.

The third power he has got, that sitting down here, he can tell you about anyone you want to know, what are his chakras like, what are his problems. Sitting down here he can say which are the people who are realised soul or not, which prime minister is a realised soul and which is not. Sitting down here they will know, because is the subtlest of subtle, of the ether as you can say. We are all gifted with that. It’s all there – only thing you have to be put to the mains. Like this instrument won’t work till it is put to the mains. In the same way, once you are put to the mains, you start working out your fantastic qualities, which are very beautiful and glorious. You automatically become virtuous and righteous. I don’t have to give a sermon for that, “Don’t do this and don’t do that”. You just won’t do it.

You won’t do anything that will destroy you. You go on to another path of construction of yourself, of your family, of your neighbours, of your city, and then of your nation and the whole world at large. This is what we have to do today. All the rest of talks and these things are not going to help at all. Because people, in talks say something, forget next moment. Here you cannot forget because the whole thing works on your central nervous system, it becomes your awareness on central nervous system. You start feeling it on your central nervous system – that shows that you are fully evolved. All differences, all problems, all adherences all wrong ideas of possessions just drop out. You stand in your own glory. You are not reactionary; you do not react to anything.

Neither you react, nor you accept anything blindfolded. You know what is exactly the right thing is and what is right thing to be done and you stand on that right thing, without bothering about what is to be done for the compromise. Like Christ, you know, that he stood against Mary Magdalene and said, “Those who have not committed any sin can throw a stone at Me”. That’s the courage of a Realised soul, that he knows this is the time he has to protect her, and he stands. He has nothing to do with a prostitute, a man like Him. But he stands up and he says so. That courage, that quality, that personality just dawns and you are surprised at yourself, “How I could do it?”. Apart from that, there are many dynamic gifts you get. Some people become great artists. We have in Australia only one girl – she became a great artist, very well-known now.

And there are some people who become very great musicians, poets – all such qualities you can get. But the best of all, that you become an innocent person. You become very innocent. All the so-called sins you have committed drop out and you become an innocent person and a very powerful person, very powerful and humble, very satisfied and compassionate person – that’s what you become. It just happens, it is because it’s all within you. It is not yet been manifested, like some clouds can cover the moon, but when the clouds disappear, you can see the beautiful moon – in the same way. You become very energetic, you can work very hard, you don’t feel tired at all, because the energy is all the time flowing in you, you respect whatever is to be respected very well and you do not bother about things which are not to be bothered about. So, many qualities you develop. I Myself never expected that Sahaja Yoga will work to that extent, up to New Zealand, I never, never knew that it will go that far in my lifetime, but it has spread so fast and so many people have been blessed. In Australia – I consider Australia and New Zealand as one cell, one place, one country, not two.

Is one country is in the thing and is this red one that you see there, with four chakras – is the first one, is the centre of innocence. And one day will come, I am sure of it, that Australia and New Zealand will be the leaders in spirituality, if not in anything else. They have never invaded any country as such. Maybe that they came here and settled down but they did not invade. So, it’s a very big assurance I have, because I have seen the way Australians are mobilising Sahaja Yoga all over. Only in Sydney we have got twelve centres. When we don’t take any money, we don’t have any organisation, we have no membership, we have twelve centres in Sydney. That’s how we should do something in New Zealand also and I’m sure very soon, under the guidance of Brian, it will work out and that you all will achieve your epitome of your evolution, that is the absoluteness. May God bless you all. I’m sorry there’s only one lecture.

I am here only for one day so I cannot elaborately talk about it. But there are many tapes they have which you can hear about different, different subjects and you can also know what is, how to do the meditation. The meditation is only for five minutes in the morning and five minutes in the evening. You can learn everything from them. They know very well because they have been very, very senior Sahaja Yogis, and are respected all over the world. Only thing, in number they are less and I was telling them, “If you get too many people, how will you manage?”. They said, “We’ll manage somehow, Mother”. So, that’s how, but you have to cooperate with them little bit and it can work out. We’ll have the session of Realization now, but I would like you to ask Me questions, but not too many, because we don’t have so much time.

L: I cannot [actually realize] if we are the Spirit and if we have been in the world many, many times, why we are still killing one another?

Shri Mataji: Why are we?

Sahaja Yogi: Why are we… If we have been evolving for such a long time towards the Spirit, why are we still killing each other?

Shri Mataji: That’s the trouble, I agree with you. You see, these modern times are described in the Puranas as Ghor Kali Yuga – the worst times. These are the worst time when the people will become absolutely horrid. Because without getting connected with God, we started moving in another lines, you see. Because you were not connected with God. If we were connected with God, we would never have done it. We have – by our many births, what has happened is that these centres were established within us. But how we have used this and how we have worked out, I agree that it’s, cannot understand why we are killing each other. The trouble is that we are not connected with God, that’s why we have done all these things.

L: You say that God doesn’t want us to suffer, but there is still a lot of suffering in the world.

Sahaja Yogi: You say that God does not want us to suffer but there is still a lot of suffering in the world.

Shri Mataji: Human beings have created the suffering. God did not, it’s the human beings. They have to learn a lesson I think, by so many ways. They just want to destroy themselves. See the things they do, the things they like – it’s all self-destructive. All the things they try to do – human beings – are self-destructive. You see their behaviour – you can’t explain why they do it so stupidly, so many things which will destroy.

Now supposing you ask the bull to come and hit you, then what happens? The bull will come and hit you. God has given us freedom of choice. In that you can go to heaven or to hell. Now many people prefer to go to hell all the time – this is the trouble. And you have to have your freedom, because unless and until you have your freedom, how can you enjoy your ultimate freedom? You have to have.

G: When did you find the Realization yourself?

Sahaja Yogi: The gentleman wants to know where did you find the Realization yourself.

Shri Mataji: I didn’t find it, I had it from my childhood, all right?

But now I would say that don’t ask questions about Me, because it is better that you get your Spirit and then know Me. Not easy to know Me, you see, it’s quite an elusive personality is before you.

Sahaja Yogi: It is a Maori welcome, Shri Mataji.

L: Thank you, Shri Mataji. Thank you [unclear]..

Shri Mataji: Thank you, thank you very much. Beautiful. Do you know, we have in India a clan or, you can call, a kind of people who are called as Maoris living still in India. And am I now going to go and find out about them. And they come from the same province as I, from the Maharashtra province. So, we are going to find out about them

L: I have a question. I find and I got a spiritual teacher and then I will be grounded and for the longest time I’ve been three months. I don’t need to meditate, I don’t need to do ritual. I just always am but I find that I get uncentered and what I like is that it always be that way and always without having to work at it or happen to go get it fixed. I don’t get my meditation, my guru fixed.

Sahaja Yogi: She’s saying that she goes to a guru or spiritual teacher and can find a balance perhaps for three months, but then it doesn’t last and says she has to find a, another injection or fix and she has a strong desire that she should gain this experience, this quality, this feeling all the time, she wants it all the time.

Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, you can always have it all the time, no doubt. But you see, when you go to a guru or anyone, it’s like a guru shopping. And I’m not a guru. I’ll make you your own guru, all right? And you will know why you lose vibrations.

It’s not question of balance, it’s not question of just feeling better. You can feel better with some drinks also. It’s not that. It’s something that you become empowered with, something which you understand yourself, something that you understand other people. It’s not just merely just feeling better for a while, that’s not the point. You will become your own, own guru. You will know yourself where you are going wrong.

Sahaja Yogi: Anybody else? The lady is asking about different energies that can come into you and some of them are not very nice ones.

Sahaja Yogi: I think she is talking about entities also.

Sahaja Yogi: Oh, entities?

Shri Mataji: That’s what it is, because it’s not divine energies. These are negative energies. They can all come into you but if you become divine, they run away. That’s why you have to be… yes, correct, entities is a good, you have seen – it’s a good thing. Because even to talk about them is sometimes difficult, but there are, all these negative forces are there, that’s why we do wrong. But that we accept much easily. Because we have risen from matter, we go to matter very easily and we take those dead energies much more faster than the real energy. But once you are a Realized soul, then you are not affected by them.

L: Mother, why is there so much ignorance in the world? I mean, in myself, too. When I look at that I realize now… I was a Catholic for fourty years, and now I realise that religion has never brought peace to the world.

Shri Mataji: It’s correct. See, you are all very simple people, naive people,

L: Good people.

Shri Mataji: Good people. of course. Now, there are set of very good people, many people, good people. There are set of some evil people – they sit down and plan out. Like every religious book is being changed. Now, I can say about our Bible, you should see clearly. Kahlil Gibran has said the same thing, that, “Why mister Paul is there, in the Bible?” He’s the one who transformed Bible into many things. There is everywhere. In Gita it is written that you are born with your caste. Cannot be. Because the one who has written, Vyasa, was an illegitimate child of a fisherwoman. So, there cannot be any caste like that. How can he say you are born as a brahmin? He cannot say, because he was not himself born as a brahmin.

But, you see, what happens, simple people start believing in all these things and start getting to them and misleading. They are very misleading, they have organisations, they do all kinds of things, and they threaten you all the time, “If you don’t do this, you’ll go to hell, this will happen, that will happen.” And simple people just get frightened, you know, that, “Oh God, we’ll go to hell now”. So, they just say “All right, whatever you say we’ll do”. Whatever they say they do it. In this, so many things like that, these gurus also taking full advantage, you see they make a big ado, “Now, come along, we’ll give you a, sort of a diksha, as they call it, it is enunciation. For that you have to go this way, that way, make a big drama out of it, befoul the people. Befouling is so much. Now, this TM is another befouling, very big befouling and gives you horrible things like epilepsy, horrible diseases. And some of the patients have come to me of AIDS from there – it’s surprising.

But still people are going to it, I’m warning them openly, but I don’t think they listen to Me. Now, this, she said the energies, you see, they put these black energies upon people and also entice them and also try to mesmerize them. They are not aware of what they are doing, stupidly. This is the thing is, because they are so simple, such good people. Say, when it’s a white sari is very easy to spoil it, isn’t it? But if it’s a black one, it may not be spoiled so easily. That’s what you are, simple people, simple hearted, good people. Easily you catch on to these things. Like in TM, they give mantras, with such, three hundred pounds you have to pay. And she was saying is 900 dollars – you have to pay just to get a mantra.

And the mantra is what? Is “inga”. “inga” means the tail of a scorpion. Just imagine! There is nothing like “inga” in Sanskrit language. That’s not there, this word is not there. Then they have to… he says that, “tinga”. Tinga means showing it down like that – tinga. All such stupid words they have given, taking three hundred pounds from them – only for giving the words. So, what to do? Why people believe them? Is because they have big organisations, they have big buildings, big houses and they are very inviting and they do all kinds of things.

M: Did you practice your Kundalini through an experience in your life?

Sahaja Yogi: Have you practiced? Experienced Kundalini movement? Kundalini?

Shri Mataji: Yes, I will just now. I’ll move yours just now.

M: Suppose somebody practice the Kundalini and moves the halfway, what happens to him? Who will be controlling?

Shri Mataji: No, no, no, it is all wrong idea because people who had no authority to put their hands to Kundalini have tried it – that’s why. They have no business, they have no character, they have no authority from God. I have done this for thousands of people. Nobody has suffered, everybody has got it. Nothing happens, nothing goes wrong. It’s not like that.

Brian: Some people are liable to get…

Shri Mataji: No one, no one.

Brian: And do you think anybody can do…

Shri Mataji: That’s your Mother, Sir. Now, a mother, when you were born took all your troubles of your birth upon herself. She didn’t trouble you, did she? She’s your individual Mother, how can She trouble you? This is all a myth and I think it’s negative again, because they must have tried to frighten you that you don’t get your Realization. That might be one of the reasons. Also, I have seen books written – these people, they have such bad vibrations – the one who have written the books.

L: I want to ask You the question about spiritual places in the earth that are more powerful, the earth is more powerful, spiritual places which will help you become Realized more faster or [does it matter still]?

Sahaja Yogi: Oh, it’s an interesting question. Are there places on earth which are more powerful, which will help you to get your Realization more quickly? Are there places of special qualities, special spiritual qualities?

Shri Mataji: I don’t know any. I can’t mislead you, My child.

Sahaja Yogi: Swayambus?

Shri Mataji: You mean to, some places from the Mother Earth?

L: No, no… Some [unclear] around the world evidently, [unclear].

Shri Mataji: Some organisations? Ah yes, yes, that kind there, that’s true, that is all right. I thought you are saying some organisations. Of course, the Mother Earth has created so many points like that. She has made so many points which do emit vibrations, no doubt about it. She has.

L: When the Kundalini has been awakened, anything blocks it on, or makes it stop? Once the Kundalini has been…

Shri Mataji: Raised, yes.

L: Can it be stopped or blocked?

Shri Mataji: It does sometimes get blocked, not doubt about it but we can clear it – it’s not so difficult. We can clear it – it’s not so difficult to clear it. There’s nothing to worry about. You can yourself clear it, anybody can clear it. No problem, it’s a simple thing.

Brian: You’ve made a statement earlier this evening that this is the age of Aquarius. This is the first time that I’ve heard it said in a very simple way. However, it was indicated that the middle of the next century is the limitation of the achievement. The question I would like to ask is: as far as I’m concerned, I’ll probably won’t see the middle of the next century. I’m not asking you to be, what should I say, a fortune teller in that context, but rather what I would like to know is, if I can’t see it, is there anything that you are able to indicate as to what is going to happen after the middle of the next century?

Sahaja Yogi: He draws attention to the fact that the age of Aquarius is really at a sort of climax, is really moving in the middle of next century.

Shri Mataji: This is… Aquarius is Kundalini, Aquarius is the kumba, you see is the kumba, is the… Aquarius, in Sanskrit language is kumba, and in your language is the water carrier. Isn’t it? It’s a translated term. That is the triangular bone within us. And this is the age of Aquarius, no doubt about.

No doubt, this is the age of Kundalini, is the Aquarius, is true. In sanskrit is it called as kumba, kumba is the… in the kumba the Kundalini is placed there, within us. This is the, of course, is the time of Aquarius, no doubt. You see, so many people have predicted. But I don’t know, people cannot locate it or they’re still in the dark, they just do not know. And I think next century we’ll have beautiful people all around us, no, no troubles of wars, very peaceful we’ll be all sitting in the kingdom of God.

Sahaja Yogi: And you could be there in next lifetime if not this.

Brian: Why talk of that? I’m not ashamed, I don’t have the idea. Sahaja Yogi: It’s a question over here?

L: Can You tell me, how it’s possible feeling oneself through the fingertips?

Sahaja Yogi: She’d like a little more information about feeling oneself through the fingertips. Shri Mataji: First of all, you must get your Realization, all right? But still I can show you here as they have shown it. There are seven chakras, like one, two, three, four, five, six and seven. Now they’re shown there. Now the first chakra is shown here, the red chakra is the first chakra and then the second chakra is shown here you see. And this one is the Vishuddhi what we call, is the chakra there, the throat, here, this. And this one is the, on the navel, Nabhi and third one is the Agnya chakra, is the chakra here, of Christ, here. And then we have the last chakra, is the Sahasrara is the thousand petals lotus in the brain, around the limbic area.

That’s the limbic area. The Kundalini passes through all these chakras, through the parasympathetic nervous system and pierces through the fontanel bone area from the limbic area.

L: Mother, you are saying (one’s chakras) are going to be feed…

Sahaja Yogi: “Feel”, “feel” not “feed”. She thought You said “feed”.

Shri Mataji: No, no, no, I said “feel”. I said: f, e, e, l – feel. All right?

L: She’s said, she asked the question “You said that’s the Self-realization, Mother, then what about when you only feel that energy it’s in your hands? I know a lot of people get very, very contact with the energy in their hands. Now, You say that these people are Realized people already?

Sahaja Yogi: She’s wondering about people who already feel these energies in the hand. Are they already Realized?

Shri Mataji: Cool, cool. They should feel cool vibrations, cool vibrations, then they are already, their Kundalini is awakened. So, such people should know what it is, you see. There are many people who are Realized souls who are born as Realized souls but they don’t know what it is, they don’t know how to use it. They must know everything, isn’t it? Is important. Sahaja Yogi: Do a lot of Realised souls now living?

Shri Mataji: Yes, I mean, at least many children I have seen are born Realized children, many children are and they put their fingers to show this is catching, that is catching of their parents.

And sometimes when the parents come before Me, they jump on their back, try to correct their Kundalinis. Yes, it’s true, children, many children are born Realised, nowadays.

Sahaja Yogi: Last question. There’s new, a new one.

Brian: I, I am very sad but [what You say it’s] karma yoga but yoga is not possible for us, for a lot of people – only for saints. The only yoga that is possible is karma yoga.

Sahaja Yogi: The only?

Shri Mataji: Karma yoga.

Brian: Karma yoga,

Shri Mataji: Yes. Now, I say it is possible and it is verily possible.  And the karma part of it, when the Kundalini moves, She awakenes this centre of Christ. Now we said that Christ has died for our sins, isnt’ it? He sucks in, he sucks in that yellow stuff which is our karmas, you see – it is the ego part of it. That is sucked in – then if you are no more there who does the karmas? When your ego is not there, who does the karmas? Then you start talking in third person – you come into akarmas. You start saying: “Mother, it’s not moving, it’s not coming”, you say like that. You don’t say, “I’m not doing it”. You say, “It’s not coming” – in the third person you start talking. It becomes akarma, as described in the Gita, it becomes akarma. They will go on saying like this because they can’t do it.

Sahaja Yogi: Perhaps Realization now, Mother? Perhaps Realization now, Mother?

 Shri Mataji: All right. Now there is a simple thing you have to do, little bit to cooperate with Me, is first of all we have to take out our shoes, to take the help of the Mother Earth – that’s all. Because we have to take the help of all the… But it is going to work out. The first thing is, you have to forgive yourself. and you have to be in a very pleasant mood. First of all, you must forgive yourself, whatever mistakes you have committed, whatever wrong you have done, don’t count them.

So, you are not guilty at all of anything. That you must remember; because that is not the mood in which you should enter the kingdom of God. So, you should know that now, there is no guilt in you, nothing has been done wrong by you. Don’t curse yourself, don’t blame yourself, don’t say that you are wrong, you have done this wrong and that wrong and you go on counting them. That would help you a lot if you just say that, “Mother, I am not guilty”. That’s all you have to say, within yourself. With full confidence you have to say, “Mother, I am not guilty”. Then I am going to teach you how to raise your own Kundalini because she asked the question if it stops and all that. It’s very simple how to raise your own Kundalini so even if it stops, you can go on raising it again and again and it will work out. You will yourself raise the Kundalini today.

But I’ll tell you how to do it. You have to put your left hand towards Me like this. Now left hand, I couldn’t tell you in the whole lecture today… Just like this, on your lap, just like this, on your lap. I didn’t tell in your lecture today… I think I should stand up, it would be better for the backside people to see. Now you can see Me? You put your left hand towards Me like this, just like this. Be comfortable, be comfortable. Those who are sitting can put it on their laps just. This is to symbolize or to say that this is the power of desire.

This is what you are desiring, to have Realization, that’s why putting the hand towards Me. This is just the power of desire. This is the hand that does the action so it has the power of action. So, this is the hand we are going to use for raising our Kundalini. But we are going to work only on the left-hand side. First, I’ll tell you. Keep your eyes open and see for yourself. First only, this left hand will be towards Me, right hand on the heart. Then, it goes down in the upper part of your abdomen. Press it there.

There’s a centre, on the left-hand side, there’s a centre within us, on the left-hand side, here. Then put it down here, on the lower part of the abdomen and press it there. There’s another centre there. Then you come back again onto the upper part of the abdomen, there’s a centre there – very important centre. And from this centre you come back to the heart. Now from here you have to go to the centre which is placed between, this we call as left Vishuddhi, between you neck and your shoulder here and turn your face towards right, like this. for a while. here is the centre is caught up when you are guilty. That’s why I said you should not feel guilty at all. After that, you have to open your hand and put it on your forehead and press it hard, on both the sides.

This is the centre of Christ. Then you have to go back and put your hand on the backside of your head and push it back, like that. Let it rest there. Now, you have to stretch your hand and in the centre of your hand, here, you put this on top of the fontanel bone area, which was the soft bone when you were a child. Put it there and press it hard, the scalp, pressing out the fingers, seven times, slowly. That’s all. And that’s how you get your Realization. It’s very simple. Now let’s do it again, with closed eyes. Will you please take out your spectacles?

Because it helps your eyesight also. You shouldn’t open your eyes till I tell you, so you won’t need your spectacles at all. Anybody who is feeling uncomfortable here or in the neck or anything, can loosen it a little bit. So, to feel absolutely, absolutely clear-cut. Now, there’s nothing to worry, it has not happened anything to anyone. Everybody will feel very much better. All right. New Zealand people are really beautiful the way they are anxious to get their Realization. So, very happy to meet them, really. Isn’t it?

All right. Now, left hand towards Me. This you should not move. Keep the left hand towards Me. You can keep it on your lap, if you find it comfortable on your lap or any way. Now, the right hand. Before putting the right hand, you close your eyes now. Close your eyes. Take out your spectacles – is better. Take out your spectacles, because it might make you feel little awkward or maybe…

Put it on your heart. Now, close your eyes. Please don’t open your eyes till I tell you. Now here, is a very important question you have to ask Me because here resides the Spirit. So, you ask Me a question three times, “Mother, am I, am I the Spirit?” You can call Me Shri Mataji if possible or call Me Mother, that’s easier. Mother, am I the Spirit? Three times. Is very important question, in your heart. Ask this question in your heart.

Put your hand on your heart. Right hand on your heart. Right hand on your heart, yes, on your heart, on your heart, yes. Please keep your eyes shut. Now, move the right hand. Left hand as it is, right hand in the upper part of the abdomen, on the left-hand side, upper part of the abdomen. Now, is very good. Now, this is the centre of your mastery. All the prophets who came on this earth have established this centre for you so that you can master – you become a master of yourself. So, now, ask a question to Me, second question, “Mother, am I my own master?”.

Ask Me a question, three times, “Mother, am I my own master?” Take down your right hand in the lower part of the abdomen and press it hard. This is the centre through which we work out the divine laws, one of the most important centre that way. So, now here you have to ask Me – because I cannot force you to get it – you have to ask Me. So, please ask Me six times because this centre has got six petals, “Mother, may I have pure knowledge?”. “Mother, may I have pure knowledge?” Pure knowledge. Is good. Six times, please. Now, raise this hand again up, on the left side of your abdomen, on the upper part of it.

Now press it here. Now, as you have asked Me the question to give you the pure knowledge, the Kundalini has started moving. So, now, at this point, so try to cooperate with the Kundalini by saying, “Mother, I am my master”. Please say it ten times, “Mother, I am my master”. Please say it ten times. “Mother, I am my master”. Have faith in yourself. With full confidence, please say, “Mother, I am my master”. That’s a fact. Ten times.

Now, raise your hand to your heart. Here, with the self-confidence, full self-confidence you have to say, “Mother, I am the Spirit”. This is twelve times, “Mother, I am the Spirit”, to make the Kundalini move faster upward. “Mother, I am the Spirit”. This is the truth. The truth is you are the Spirit. “Mother, I am the Spirit”. Say it twelve times, please. Now, we have to know that God Almighty is the ocean of love and grace, but above all, He is the ocean of forgiveness. So, He forgives whatever mistakes we commit.

After all, we are human beings so we commit mistakes. So, it would be better that you raise your right hand, now, on your shoulder, between the corner of the shoulder and the neck and put your head towards the right. Now, here, press it hard and say for, with full confidence in yourself, “Mother, I am not guilty”, sixteen times, please. Please say, “Mother, I am not guilty”. As I have told you, you have to be absolutely pleasantly placed towards yourself. Now, those who still don’t want to forgive themselves can say it 108 times to take the punishment. Put it on here. That’s very important this centre is, very important. Put your head towards the right. Good.

Sixteen times. Now, raise your hand again to your forehead across and press it hard. Now, here, you have to say, “Mother, I forgive everyone, everyone”. Now one should not think that it is difficult to forgive. After all, we forgive or not forgive, we do not do anything. But when we do not forgive then we are playing into the hands of wrong people. So, better forgive. Everyone you forgive – don’t count them. Forgive them from your heart, how many times is not the point. From your heart, just forgive them.

It’s very hot. Now, put the hand on the backside of your head. And now, place your hand on the backside and put the load of your head on that and now here, for your own satisfaction you can say, “Mother, if I have done any mistakes, please forgive me”, or “Oh, Divine, if I have done any mistakes, please forgive me” – just for your own satisfaction. It’s not necessary to say. Now, say it from your heart. Now, open your hands, properly. Put the hand on the top of the fontanel bone area, in the centre, press it hard and move it seven times, seven times. Here you have to ask Me for Self-realization. I cannot force on you. So, you have to say seven times “Mother, please give us Self-realization”.

I cannot force on you. May God bless you. Now take down your hand and open your eyes slowly. Now, put your right hand towards Me, instead of the left and put your left hand on top of your head. And see for yourself, have you got the cool breeze coming out of your head? Put it on the fontanel; just move. Some people get it very high, some people get it very… Yes, it’s there. Just keep it on this side, this side, here. You can bend your head and see if you want to – would be easier.

Now, put the left hand towards Me and put the right hand and see for yourself if you got the cool breeze in your head. It’s good. Now put again the right hand towards Me and see with the left hand. Now you can raise both the hands towards the sky and ask a question in your heart, “Is this the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost?” Holy Ghost is the Kundalini. Holy Ghost is the Kundalini. “Is this the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost? “, “Is this the cool breeze of God’s love? “, “Is this the Paramachaitanya?” Just ask the question.

Put the head back and ask the question, three times, any question you feel like. Three times. Now, bring it down. Now, see for yourself; you feel peaceful inside and relaxed. You watch Me without thinking. You can do it, very easily. Now, see. It’s coming from you to Me. It’s so great. Now, those who have felt cool breeze on top of their heads or in their hands, you have to raise both the hands – those who have felt it.

Those who have felt cool breeze in the hands – higher up like that, just Me to see. Those who have felt cool breeze in their hands or on top of their hands, should raise their hands. So, many of you have felt it! What happened to your Aquarius? Didn’t feel it? All right, we’ll see about. Most of you have felt it.

May God bless you.

Those who didn’t do it, would not feel. naturally.

This lady didn’t do anything so she would not feel anything. It’s all right.

May God bless you.

Now, you can just see this gentleman, what’s the matter with him? One-two people should see, one or two people there I saw. You didn’t feel the cool breeze? No? All right. So, can you come out a little bit these boys, these can see. Now, just see him.

He is outside. Niko, just, Niko here just see, this gentleman, didn’t feel it. I’m sorry, but he should, he should. Yes, just you should feel it. Just see, what’s the problem. Done now? Feeling peaceful and happy now?

Brian: Which year did You meet Mahatma Gandhi? Which year were you with Mahatma Gandhi?

Shri Mataji: I was there with him from seven years of age.

Brian: Which year? What year? Shri Mataji: Must be 7… 1923 and seven.

Brian: 1930? 1930?

Shri Mataji: 1930. Civil disobedience, civil disobedience’s time, yes. My father was with him, mother was with him, the whole family. But specially Me, I lived with him, personally with him. Yes.

You didn’t feel on the head? Now, you just ask, “Mother come in my head”. Just say that if you didn’t feel in the (head). Just say that, it will come. Again. See it again. Now just see. There? It’s there. Whatever you ask you’ll get it.

Now you got it madam. All of you. Very good. Now this gentleman, you just see, this. He should get it, actually. He’s read too much, I think. Devi, come along. Now you all can give Realization. You all can see. You can see each other’s heads also.

You can see each other head, to convince yourself. Just see what’s her problem. I think Nabhi. Little liver problem he has. That’s all. Ask him to put his left hand on the liver. That’s all. Left hand on the liver. That side, that side. Yes, that side.

Yes, that’ it. And right hand towards Me. That’ all. Now, see. Put both the feet on the… Yes, now see. They work out from the back. [Hindi/Marathi] To (then – in Hindi) balanced you? Are you imbalanced? Ask him what work he does.

Give him a balance also. Give this gentleman a balance, he will be all right. Right sided. Just give him a balance. Left to the right. Move it left to the right. You must forgive. Did you forgive, Sir? Did you really, from your heart? All right, then you must… Now, are you feeling the cool breeze?

No? There is in the head. Little bit it has started. You will. Maybe, Vishuddhi may be wrong or something. All of them have got it. Now one has to laugh, that’s all, and enjoy. Nothing to worry. You have entered into the Kingdom of God and you’ll be surprised how you are helped. Everything is over now.

The one who didn’t get there. Somebody… Can you come down to this side, my child? This side. Come this side, this side. If you can get out and come out, will be good idea. No, no, she is coming, David she is coming this side. Now, where are others? Mary, you see her. Or someone? You need to balance her.

Just, she will see you. This gentleman with the… Have you been to any guru or anyone? No one so far? You, did you feel now? In the head they did feel, but in the hands did not. Because this center is little bit heavy. It will loosen out. But in the head, they have felt it. You can feel it on his head madam, you yourself. You, you can feel it, the neighbour, yes you can feel it.

Just see. Is it there? Now? Not yet? Some people might feel the heat. That’s all right doesn’t matter, the heat will be replaced by the cool breeze. But first the heat can come into some people. No? You were busy with the child.