This contact form is available only for logged in users.
Informal Talk to Sahaja Yogis. Melbourne (Australia), 4 March 1990.
Very happy to be back here in Melbourne, after such a long gap, and everybody’s grown up so much; nice to see you all so healthy, beautiful and joyous. Of course I feel sad about the ashram that we have lost, that we should not have lost the ashram. But whatever has happened you can’t help it; but it’s important for Sahaja Yoga that we have to live together. I also told the same thing in Perth, that try to get a big place, because you know your children are there, and you all are there, and if you are together, negativity runs away. It has such a tremendous force, an ashram has a tremendous force. When you live together, you help each other, you understand each other, you know so many things, you learn so many things from each other and, it could be done very easily, once you start enjoying the collectivity.
Human being is a social being. He is not a person who wants to live in a – single way. That’s why if you jail someone, if somebody’s in jail, it becomes a punishment. Though in the jail you have all the conveniences, everything is there, on the contrary you don’t have to work so hard, you get your food all right, everything is fine, somebody cooks for you. But it’s a punishment.
And for our ascent is very important to be collective. It’s said that wherever you are together I reside there[with you?]. But human nature is funny. In some places collectivity has acted very well, like in Austria and we have the best ashram in Austria. Now they have about five, six ashrams there, one better than the other. In itself in Vienna we have I think four ashrams, and it’s growing so well. Nobody wants to live alone, so anxious to join, come back to ashrams; and so many problems are solved otherwise also on very material level. Everything gets shared, you don’t have to pay too much money. Now if you are living alone, then sometimes you feel like spending your money here, there and at the end of the day no money is left out. But in the ashram you know how much to pay.
Then there are some people who want to buy – I mean on a material level – something very exorbitant, something great and this and that, and nobody to control that, that desire that need. As a result, we become extravagant, so much so that you are left with nothing. Exactly this happened in Perth. I know of people who had money, and when they took their houses and they’re living there, they have no money at all. I said, ‘Why?’ He said, ‘For food we spend so much and then need to go and get this and do this,’ and the whole day they are busy working it out – on individual basis. There’s no time for meditation. There’s no time for listening to My tapes, no time for anything. And everybody has gone down so much in vibrations there that I was really shocked. Perth was one of the places I felt was a very good place. It’s so open and so clean and so nice; and what are you doing – going out shopping, buying this cloth, that cloth, this dress, that dress and piles in the house, because that fashion was the other day.
In Sahaja Yoga there’s a Sahaja fashion. We don’t change our dresses every day in Sahaja Yoga. Every year we buy whatever is needed. That’s all. And Australia specially, being such an expensive place, I mean, I think this is one of the most expensive nations I’ve seen – the most expensive. First I used to think Helsinki, Finland is the most expensive but now I’ve gone just to buy these shoes, I’ve walked for hours together to get the pair of shoes here. In India you can get it in no time and I’ve paid at least three times more that I would pay, even in London and at least four times more that I would pay in Italy. In India I need not tell, you know that very well.
So if you -see it’s a kind of a time that you have that if you start doing this, doing that. And the essence of all that is what? Is to please others. We buy good clothes to please others; want to have nice curios to please others; want to decorate our house to please others; we don’t do it for ourselves, do we? So then there is not the other – like we were staying in London and there were seven houses, and everybody was busy you see, cleaning, sweeping, swabbing, doing all the lawns, everything and polishing all the brass and everything in those houses. But not even a rat would enter that house. I said, ‘For whom are they doing it? I don’t know’. Poor things, they are working so hard, nobody to see it. And that’s how they become extremely depressed and unhappy.
This depression you don’t find among Indians at all because their houses are open, anybody can walk in, have food, walk out. You will not know whose house, to whom it belongs. Then this depression walks in. Is a psychological thing, because human beings are social beings. You must understand the essence of [INAUDIBLE]. You can never be happy living alone. And this aloofness and this individualism has brought this kind of a new thing which we call as tensions and as depressions and then go to schizophrenia. There’s not a single case of schizophrenia I have seen in India – not a single case. Ah some people become lunatics but lunatics are there and they are put in the jail. There are very few lunatics.
Now, in England the lunatics are so many, and so many schizophrenics that they have said: “Now we’ll not have any more, let them be with the society. If they live with the society they’ll be all right”. So now they are starting a society of people who would like to stay with lunatics and the lunatics have improved, living with society. Even here they will start after some time, that allow the lunatics to live with the people. Talk to them nicely. Because, how do we live? With love, with rapport. We can’t live alone. That’s a little bit of a, idea we have that, ‘This is my house, this is my this thing, this is my…’ But you rise above a little bit and then you’ll say, ‘It’s so nice to decorate the ashram, it’s for everyone.’ Do good to others, so everybody says, ‘What a nice thing it is’. Now see such a nice house [man’s name?] has got. If he had not come you would not have seen it. She would have worked so hard, poor thing, nobody would have appreciated it.
And this idea of ‘my-ness’ and ‘I-ness’ has to be given up in Sahaja Yoga, then you will know what is joy is; and then you will write to Me, ‘Mother, we are all swimming in the Ocean of Joy’. Matter is just – you know you’ll be surprised – matter is only for expression of love and for nothing else. They all call Me very generous but you don’t know I am very selfish because I enjoy Myself by giving it to others, that’s the greatest enjoyment for Me. But this time I had gathered so many things for you, and they told Me, ‘Don’t bring anything to Australia’. Look at this country – funny one – they don’t allow any presents to be brought here for people whom I want to give and enjoy My generosity.
So that is what it is that when we understand the essence, now we are on the essence because we are on the Kundalini. Then we must know the essence of joy. And the joy is in sharing. But here people share which should not be shared, their privacy. Where they have to be private they are not. Just the other way round. I shouldn’t say that but is a fact you know it for definite. You see even Mrs. Thatcher said that, ‘It’s our culture that women must expose their body.’ Can you imagine Mrs. Thatcher saying that? But I heard with My Own ears. So whatever is to be shared is not shared, whatever is not to be shared is shared, and if you say, ‘Why are you sharing?’ ‘You are jealous, you are very small-minded, you are very narrow-minded, you are very selfish’.
As Sahaja Yogis you can see it because you have the witness power, you can see it clearly. You have that Divine eyesight, you can see that clearly, that this is this thing, just the opposite. Of course you don’t have to take sannyasa. You don’t have to do all these stupid things, but you have to enjoy the collectivity. This is the culture of Sahaja Yoga. And now if you people cannot live together, how do I expect the whole world to live together? Of course there are problems, because of our ideas, not because there’s something wrong with collectivity. I told them this morning the same thing I would like to tell you: that the first thing is when we start looking at others we try to gather the thorns, ‘What’s wrong with that another person,’ instead of gathering the flowers. If you want to gather the thorns, all right, go ahead. I mean how can you get flowers then? As simple as that. It’s a very simple mathematics. But if you want to have flowers you should see to the beauty of another person, glory of another person, the better side of it. And those who cannot see it, can never enjoy another person.
And the Sahaja Yogis can enjoy each other very well. It’s so sweet it is and so beautiful that you all can live together like that. I wish I could, all the time, with you all. But it’s not in My Fate I have to travel from one place to another. I left them there. I was so much wrenched in My Heart really and I was so heavy that I just closed My eyes trying to get over it; and there I find all the flowers smiling at Me at the airport and whole thing finished. Neutralized. I said, ‘Now these were also waiting. After all I have to come for them, here.’
So you see this love, this affection, this deeper understanding that we have, within ourselves, that we are in love with each other, where can we express? In a house which is separate, the housewife is busy with the household, man is busy with another thing. But doing it together is such a beauty, and that’s what has happened to Australia today. As it is Australia is such a cut-off place, from the whole world, is more necessary that you should ask for collectivity here. Even to come, even from Perth to here took three hours for us; such a vast country so separated from each other. When you are separated you come closer to each other, very much more. Try to understand your essence and I think now your attitudes will change and next time I should come to an ashram here. That’s what I want. All of you if you work it out you can do it. After all there is paramachaitanya working on it.
But is a common case with people that they don’t want to live collectively. It’s very common case. But those who enjoy, you see, their Spirit cannot enjoy life without living together. Because Spirit is the collective being. It is a collective being. It’s nature it is a collective being. That’s the trouble. So you can’t be in the water as well as in the boat. And either you have to be spiritually inclined, or you should be in the Spirit or in the body. And for your ascent is very important. We have to establish very good ashrams, where you can also have a center down below or something. All of you put together can manage that, I know that very well. If it is decided you can do it. If you need any help I am willing to help you. This Kew thing, I don’t know why it fizzled out. The man became very greedy or whatever it is. But this was a very beautiful place, I enjoyed it very much thoroughly there.
Also sometimes it happens that somebody becomes despotic, somebody becomes dictatorial, some things happen like that, but it will pass out. But once you break away, it will be difficult for you to come together. You’ll find excuses, ‘I have got this work’, the another will say, ‘I have that job’, ‘I have to do this’. Everything can be done collectively much better. Just now see I was talking to him, one minute, before, but I didn’t know what he was doing. I said, ‘What do you do?’ He said, ‘Government service,’ ‘What kind?’ He said, ‘Immigration.’ I said, ‘That’s it. I wanted you.’ Not for My immigration, but for John Watkinson, and he’s worrying Me too much because poor fellow, John Watkinson, you know; you know John Watkinson very well – how beautifully he works out everything, you know that very well. And he’s in trouble. He can’t get his wife in England. So I want him to immigrate here. I was talking to him and he gave Me very good idea. Supposing we were not together, I would not have done anything. Immediately you see, as soon as a problem comes up, they say, ‘All right, so this place, there is someone like that, Mother can we take her?’
All over the world we have people. It’s like one big body. And as soon as there’s problem with the eyes, some hand is there to help us. That’s how we are going to work it out. Do you understand the importance of Sahaja Yoga, at this juncture? It’s not ‘by the way’, it’s very important, extremely important thing. I don’t know if you really know about it. Such work was never done in the history of Spirituality, in the history of this world, or universe whatsoever. And this kind of a masse transformation that is taking place, which is going to transform the whole world. But just the opposite of us are Russians. Russians are tremendous people.
Now we have a house, big, huge house, in Russia. I’ve been there only twice, once for eight days, another time for two days, and they are so dynamic and so spiritually evolved, I cannot describe to you, when I went there in Leningrad, there were two thousand people inside the hall, and two thousand sitting outside, and I didn’t know what to do with them. After all lecture, program – it lasted for two hours or so, two and a half hours, when I came out all two thousand were still outside waiting. It touched My Heart really. Said: ‘But Mother what about us?’ I said: ‘All right, tomorrow you come along here outside I’ll see you, all of you, I must meet you tomorrow.’ So the two thousand who were inside and the two thousand who were outside – all were there on the grounds and all of them are there now in Sahaja Yoga. The follow-up we had to take in the same hall.
Now they’ve found a house for us, anything you want. Even their ministers. They gave us an independent chart. There’s no organization from outside Russia has got an independent chart. We can do what we like. They are willing to pay for My ticket, for the ticket who comes with Me and they are going to pay for My hotels and they are going to do everything. Tremendous personality and they might one day become the greatest Spiritual people – the way they are. But they had to learn collectivity through their training of communism, that has come handy. Though there are many defects of communism no doubt, but the greatest advantage they had is the collectivity; to know to share. And that’s why it has worked. I’ve been thinking “Why is it so much?” Of course they have no conditioning of religions and things, they all divide us, religions this that. But there is one thing that is so great about them is that they are very collectively conscious.
I mean we all went there, forty-five of them just jumped in, from all over the world to come to Russia because very interesting now. You won’t believe they looked after us like lords, gave them food, this, make all arrangements. Where My program was there was a big dinner they threw; not a single pie we had to pay them. I mean there was no organization there, nothing; no Sahaja Yoga, nothing. Only Oleg was there; nothing in Leningrad- and Oleg was actually in Moscow, and even to touch the platform on which I was sitting there was a big cue and when I went away also they were touching the platform, can you imagine. They said: “We have never heard of such a thing, it’s such a great thing. I cannot believe it there such a thing exists.” And they’re all very well-educated people.
They are scientists, lots of scientists, doctors, architects, businessmen, all kinds of things. And the ministers of the Supreme Council. What do you say? They came to my program. They all touched My Feet. I said: “What world is this?” And they haven’t got this sense that you are a minister or anything; everybody just the same. Of course that’s the thanks to communism. But communism has given them something very very great and that is collectivity; they know how to share. I just really didn’t know to really measure out their potential, really, I couldn’t make out. They’re all waiting for Me there.
They made a film out of Me already, and they showed it and all the film had nothing but vibrations and some light tuck tuck on people and all that. So that film became very popular, they made a lot of money out of that. All that they have given to Sahaja Yoga now. And first only they brought lot of money I said: “Why? For what?”
They said: “For Sahaja Yoga.”
I said: “I don’t need any money just now.” Lot of money.
“No but we’ve saved this for You, we saved for You.
I said: “But you never knew”.
When I was going for this another seminar, this Yoga seminar My husband said: “What’s the use of going there now? You’ve been there eight days now. Again for the seminar? Anybody can look after”.
I said: “I have to go.”
He said: “Why?”
“To break the Eastern Block.”
He said: “How will You break?”
I said: “There will be all of them there in the seminar.”
Really it happened. They gave Me only forty-five minutes. I spoke for thirty minutes and for fifteen minutes I gave them Realization. See, and in that fifteen minutes all of these were from all East Germany, from Czechoslovakia, Poland; everybody was there. All of them walked with Me out; there was nobody left in the hall for any other lectures, and they gave Me their addresses. “You must come to Poland, You must come to this, You must come to East Germany.” And just after that this triggering took place and they all started. But they must be very powerful means, that’s the point you must remember. From every country there could be ten or fifteen people who could have attended this. All together there were only three hundred delegates. And in Romania also [spacing] I found people were very spiritual, and I said: “Romania will be all right. Don’t you worry.” It has happened there also. They have broken the whole shackles. Then came- before that was the Hungary, you see; they said: “What about Hungary, Mother?”
I said: “Let there be one Sahaja Yogi from Hungary.” And there was one; he was quite sick though. Hungary became free.
So you are the channels, you are the ones who are going to work it out. If it was not so you think I would have asked you to do all these things? I would have done it Myself. I can’t. It is you have to do and you must understand your responsibilities. You should not go into the same mundane nonsensical ideas but come forward with it and work it out. You can break all these shackles completely, if you have that power within you. But if you, who are the one who are the one who are going to transmit this, are not equipped and are not strong enough what will I do? How can I emit? Still we are going in that small circle of: “Me, my family, my children, my, my, my, my”. So it’s very important.
I’m sorry I didn’t come earlier; I should have come. There’s nothing wrong with you that I didn’t come. But I wanted to see how you grow, and I think this is not the way we are going to grow at all; we are not going to get separated. We are going to live together. If you have any problems let Me know. But you should immediately try to find out some place- big one, immediately. We all can contribute. From all over the world people will contribute; I know that. Same thing in England, you know; England is another mess.
We got so much money for Shudy Camps, and in the Shudy Camps who lives are people who have no money, paying nothing. Like Hounslow house nobody paid anything, living free. English are the worst in this, the worst of all, I should say; and I don’t know how they are going to come up now; everybody has given up. The leaders say: “Mother no use making any house, anything for them; they’ll all come with their bag and baggage and we’ll have to pay for even their food”. But now we are getting some better-educated people, some professionals and things, but still I would say that England this Shudy Camps has failed completely. We wanted about seven doctors to see to this. We had made everything arrangements beautifully done, worked very hard for it. I put in such a lot of money in there; effort, planning ; everything has all failed. Is just haunted by some people who have no place to go to. This is another kind. What’s the use of their collectivity there? Except that it’s a pressure on us in every way. Now you have to show them. You were running very good ashrams, no doubt. There were no such problems, no such things happening, and then something went wrong here; I know that also. Because of that we should not give up our unity. Has happened something; doesn’t matter; we should reunite. Unless and until we are united we cannot fight. And the negativity is at your door that can enter through even Sahaja Yogis.
As it had through your leaders also; I know that. But nobody told Me about it, surprisingly. I’ve already said that you don’t tell Me against the leaders but you tell Me if they are doing something wrong; is absolutely allowed. Nobody wrote to Me a word till I Myself discovered it. Otherwise from Australia I get at least sometimes minimum of ten to twenty pages letters. But not a word about what was happening here or how people were dominating you and how things were going worse. I had to discover it. We are all one family, after all I’m your Mother. If you don’t tell Me, who is going to tell Me about it? You have every right to tell Me. Leaders is just a myth as such. That’s the way I can communicate. But if you find anything wrong with any leader, or anything, you should tell Me. I’m always available, you can always telephone to Me, I can always talk to you. How many people have talked to? I never say: “no” if I’m there. Any Sahaja Yogi is trying to telephone to Me, if I am in England or if I’m available, I’ll talk to that person. Or if there is David Spiro he can convey to Me, he’ll communicate to Me exactly what you tell.
So nobody told Me. I never knew what was happening. You’ll be amazed I even did not know that the school was removed to Sydney. I did not know; nobody asked Me, nobody told Me; I had no idea. I never knew. Suddenly the photographs of the children came and their eyes, you see: “What’s the matter? Where are they?” Then they told us the school has been removed and all that, and the children were not normal at all. I was so shocked. Then I found out that the school was removed without My knowledge, without telling Me. So arbitrary and everything. Nobody told Me. You have to tell Me, you have to inform Me. Now, in My lifetime, if this is the situation, I don’t know what’s going to happen later. Will it be like other Christianity of Paul or another Hinduism or another thing like that; after all you are Sahaja Yogis. And then you forget your responsibilities because if you are together you remember your responsibilities that you are carrying a big load, a cross you can call it,a big load. Suddenly you remove your hand: “Get out. I have nothing to do. I’m alone, I’m separate”. Who is going to carry this big load?
H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi