Interview, Sydney Airport (Australia), April 14th, 1991
[No sound for 18 seconds]
Shri Mataji: … Austria, England.
Someone: And India.
Shri Mataji: Of course!
[Unclear conversation about the girl.]
Interviewer: I’ll keep asking questions. I don’t know anything about Sahaja Yoga at all. Is it like a religion or is it like an exercise?
Shri Mataji: It is an evolutionary process. It’s the last breakthrough.
Interviewer: It’s the last?
Shri Mataji: The last breakthrough of our awareness.
Interviewer: No further to go?
Shri Mataji: No. Then you grow them. After that, you just grow into spirituality.
Interviewer: You just grow it.
Shri Mataji: Into growth.
Interviewer: You grow it.
Shri Mataji: Yes. First, you have to be connected to the All-pervading divine Power, which we have never felt so far. We have heard about it. But this power does all living work, all living work, which we take it for granted.
Interviewer: If is this is this power, that you are talking about, that does all the living work, do you have a name for it?
Shri Mataji: I beg your pardon.
Interviewer: This power that you’re talking about that does all living works
Shri Mataji: Yes.
Interviewer: Do you have a name for it?
Shri Mataji: Name is called as the power of Holy Ghost or this is All-pervading Power of divine love.
Interviewer: So, does Sahaja Yoga take into account the process [unclear]-
Shri Mataji: Yes, Sahaja Yoga is. Sahaja; ‘sahaj’ means ‘with’; ‘ja’ is born, born with you. It’s this right to be in ‘yoga’ means the union with this divine Power.
‘Sahaja Yoga.’
Interviewer: Right. Sahaja Yoga, what does it mean?
Shri Mataji: ‘Saha’ is ‘with’; ‘ja’ is born, with every human being –
Interviewer: Right.
Shri Mataji: is the right to be in union with this all-divine Power which we call it as second birth. But it’s an actualization, it is not just a brand or a certificate. It’s an actualization it happens to you. It’s a happening.
And you feel it as cool breeze, this divine Power, and also you feel the cool breeze coming out of your fontanel bone area, through your soft bone area, which is the actualization of baptism. It’s the actualization again. It’s not just talking about it.
Interviewer: I see. Why do you do this? Why do you travel around the world?
Shri Mataji: It’s such a satisfying thing! Now the whole world is full of chaos, so many types of problems. And all of them, mostly, are created by human beings, because they have no absolute knowledge, they have no absolute truth. They have to have their transformation.
Interviewer: And you provide the transformation?
Shri Mataji: Not me, you all have got this within yourself. It’s your own power.
Interviewer: So, you just –
Shri Mataji: Yes, I trigger it. But when you get it, you can also trigger it. It’s like one light, which is enlightened, can enlighten another light.
Interviewer: So, is it – how do you fund traveling around the world like this?
Shri Mataji: Funding?
Interviewer: Yes.
Shri Mataji: First, mostly my husband used to bring me money to do that.
Interviewer: He works in the United Nations?
Shri Mataji: Yes in the beginning. But now, these people, I have thousands and thousands of disciples and they have a traveling fund for me, of which I am not aware of what, how they keep it. And they pay it to the aeroplane, not to me.
Interviewer: What will you be telling people in Australia?
Shri Mataji: I’ll tell them that this power is within you. 6:04
And this is what all the scriptures have said.
Interviewer: Scriptures from every religion?
Shri Mataji: Yes, all the scriptures have said that, ‘You are to be born again’.
Interviewer: You are?
Shri Mataji: ‘You are to be born again”.
Interviewer: That’s the Christian scriptures.
Shri Mataji: Christians, Hindu, Muslim, everything, anyone. Tao, Zen, Buddha.
Unless and until we are born again, we cannot see the reality that they are all one. They are all born on the tree of spirituality, like flowers. We have plugged them and we are carrying those dead flowers. And we become very self-opiniated, as if we are the sane ones.
Interviewer: So, there are dead flowers fallen off the tree.
Shri Mataji: Yes, these are dead. And that’s why there’s fundamentalism that’s why there’s this fight going on. And also these dead flowers, just dally your spirituality. You do not seek any further. You’re just finished with it. Like a Hindu will go to a temple, or a Christian will go to a church, at the most. And a Muslims will go to a mosque: maybe they might end up with fundamentalism, also, I would say that. But the higher seeking in not there. Ascent is not there. They’re done.
But there are many seekers, I must say, in the world these days. William Blake* had said so. There will be many men of God, who’ll seek God. And then, they will become godly and make others godly, he said it.
Interviewer: Who said that?
Shri Mataji: William Blake.
Interviewer: William Blake.
And how do we use, how do we get access to the power?
Shri Mataji: Access?
Interviewer: Yes, how do we get to the power? How do we get back on the trail?
Shri Mataji: It’s within you, it’s just spontaneous. It’s a living process.
Interviewer: And you do it through meditation?
Shri Mataji: Just, no. Just it works out, in about 10 minutes time, for masses. Then you have to- then you have to make this connection firm, this connection firm, so that you are established into it. Because people are so conditioned and there are so many problems. Because this power Kundalini, which is the connecting power, passes through six centres. They might be blocked, you see. So, it has to go back, correct it. So, you have to know about it, what is this, the ‘modus operandi’ completely. It’s not something out of the blue. It is- everything you have to know. You have to know the complete knowledge.
Interviewer: So, you have to completely understand.
Shri Mataji: Yes.
Interviewer: About the Kundalin and the six centres.
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes. But it is very simple because, look at them, they have never had heard about Kundalini. But they are so capable and they know it. Because once you have the light, you see, you start seeing the things so clearly, working out. And it’s a proof there, of everything that is said. Moreover ,you become absolutely free from all kinds of addictions and things like that, absolutely. You are a free bird. You become very capable also, because you can bear any power, you can bear any money. Apart from that, your awareness gets into another dimension, called as ‘Collective Consciousness’ which Jung has said. Jung has talked about it, Collective Consciousness, where you feel your centres on your fingertips: that is Self-knowledge. And you can feel the centres of others, also on your fingertips.
Interviewer: What do you think is the chief problem in Australia? With people.
Shri Mataji: Chief?
Interviewer: Yes, the biggest problem. The people falling off a tree [unsure] how’s it like. You talked about American, how they are materialistic. And that is something that probably, the Americans have spread. Do you think that’s the problem here as well?
Shri Mataji: I think that Australian’s problem is this that, they should have self-confidence and they should not try to follow Americans or French. They are great people.
Interviewer: Have you been here before?
Shri Mataji: Yes, many times.
Interviewer: How many times?
Shri Mataji: From 78, I’ve been coming here.
[Cut in the video]
One or two years I did that.
Interviewer: And you found here that we are trying to follow the Americans too much, is that what you think?
Shri Mataji: Americans are absolutely very conditioned by their money and this guilt. They have no sense of spirituality. They are very enamoured by people who ask for money. They talk like this: what is the bargain?
Interviewer: And you’re not like this?
Shri Mataji: No, not at all.
What can you pay to your Mother Earth which gives you all these flowers? It’s a living process, I said.
Interviewer: You make a comment and you are quite [unclear] on what is done –
Shri Mataji: About what?
Interviewer: About femininity.
Shri Mataji: A what?
Interviewer: Femininity.
Shri Mataji: Yes.
Interviewer: Do you say then that you are the final point in the triangle, just, ‘mother, father, son’, and you are the Mother.
Shri Mataji: You see, I wouldn’t say anything. Because why should you believe me if I say something?
Interviewer: Yes, right.
Shri Mataji: Isn’t it? I would say that, you’d better get your Self-realization first. And then you will find out about me. You know, because Christ was the son of God, no doubt about it. But when he said it, they crucified him. Now I don’t want to get crucified. [Laughter]
Interviewer: We’ll not crucify you.
Shri Mataji: They might, you know. I don’t know, human beings sometimes they grow really crazy.
Interviewer: Ok, so if I could rephrase the question, “Do your followers believe that you are the Mother after the Father and the Son”?
Shri Mataji: They do believe and they have found out something, that’s why. Actually, they were in search of the Holy Ghost from England. And then, they landed up to a point where they had to find these three things in a personality: one is the Comforter, means physical comfort, means you should get cured by that. The second is a Counsellor, who has all the knowledge. And the third is the Redeemer who can give you the ascent.
Interviewer: The?
Shri Mataji: Redeemer.
Interviewer: Redeemer. Right.
Shri Mataji: Who will give you the ascent. And they found out- they were seekers of maybe seven or eight people from England – they started the seeking. And even from here some people went down like that to India, everywhere. And they found this in me.
Interviewer: So the, do you claim you heal? Can you heal?
Shri Mataji: Yes, of course. They can also heal. It’s not ‘I’ heal. I don’t heal. Your own Kundalini heals you; it’s your own power [that] heals you.
Blood cancer: so many things we have healed. There’s two doctors who have got M.D. [Doctor of Medicine], in healing, in Sahaja Yoga. We have a doctor here Dr Bogdan. He is from England. But now he’s helping me in Russia.
Interviewer: It’s quite taken off in Russia, isn’t it?
Shri Mataji: Oh, very much.
Interviewer: Why do you think that is?
Shri Mataji: I think they have no conditionings of any kind; you see. Their spirituality is still quite fresh. They are seekers. Of course, there are at least 30 percent people who are just asking for American jeans style, also, there.
But 70 percent are such. Their scientists and their doctors and their professionals are very well equipped, because they are looking for something. And they are not conditioned. I think, basically, they are very introspective, throughout. If you read literally [unsure], I mean read anyone of their books, even a romance or anything, they are very introspective in their temperament.
Interviewer: Like Tolstoi.
Shri Mataji: Yes, Tolstoi, Tolstoi and others also, it’s [unclear] punishment, if you read. Throughout he is introspecting himself, “Why am I doing it? What is the need?” You see, it’s always a dialogue between himself that, “Why should I do such a thing?” And that is what is their character.
Interviewer: It’s not because they don’t have any materials and they don’t have any-
Shri Mataji: Also, I think, materially, they were quite satisfied in a way, because they got everything. But now they have become lethargic about it. I don’t think they are very materialistic also, not very materialistic. But the only thing now, these bureaucrats have created artificial problems for them there, because they don’t want democracy to come in. But they don’t want also Gorbachev to be successful. So, it’s all artificially created: lot of food, everything is there. But I think it will be a very strong nation one day.
Interviewer: Do you speak Russian or do you have translators? 16:47
Shri Mataji: Little bit I know. but watch! It’s very close to Sanskrit.
Interviewer: And you speak Sanskrit?
Shri Mataji: Ah, yes. Speak; I know Sanskrit, because this is not spoken.
Interviewer: Yes, it’s a written language, I’m sorry. You’re wearing all crimson and red and purple, I noticed.
Shri Mataji: Anything, it’s a decent-
Interviewer: Is that for a reason?
Shri Mataji: The reason I wear saris, because our country lives on it.
Interviewer: But the colours?
Shri Mataji: No, ‘colours’ are nothing, I just-
Interviewer: You’re ready for colours all the time?
Shri Mataji: Anything. You see, this was decided by them, I should wear this. So, I said, “All right, I’ll wear this”. Just to please them. But for programs, I wear white. Because if you are in white, normally I like white, then there are, at least, no problems about colours. Otherwise, they start thinking, you see, as you too started. It also matches with your coat.
Interviewer: Yes, with my coat.
[Laugher]
Shri Mataji: And with this also.
Interviewer: I was going to ask I don’t know much about the Indian cast system but about the mark here. [Bindi]
Shri Mataji: That’s the married side. A married lady has to wear that. But also, it’s a part of a center, the optic chiasma, where it is decided by Christ himself, the optic chiasma, where it’s this, like this, the optic chiasma. And it has two windows: one is this, one of the centres, and one behind. So, this is the centre which is covered with this [Kumkum]. It’s safer. That’s also why Indian women wear, because if it is not safe, women are very sensitive and especially Indian women and with this thing, they feel protected.
The sign of marriage also is, you see, you’re protected because you’re a married woman. Nobody can trouble you.
Interviewer: You don’t have this [a ring] for sign?
Shri Mataji: We have that also.
Interviewer: As well.
Shri Mataji: Because I have that, but not always. This is another sign [Mangala sutra]. There are nine signs, all together, there are many [Laughter]
Interviewer: They like to advertise.
Shri Mataji: Yes, but married women are very much respected in India, regarded as very auspicious. And I think, in India, our economic politics, the political situation is very bad, absolutely hopeless, and men have made a mess of it.
And now we have, our society, of course, is well, our societies.
Interviewer: You need another Indira Gandhi to come into [unclear].
Shri Mataji: She was all right, but she also started becoming like a man. So, it’s difficult with these women when they join politics, they start competing with men. They don’t keep to their womanly qualities. If they become motherly, then it is much better, I think.
Interviewer: Do you know much about what goes on in Australia? What’s going on at the moment?
Shri Mataji: I know, I know a lot. I’m thinking about it.
Interviewer: Do you know about what’s happening in Western Australia as federals [unsure]?
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes but I know the problem is with your labour, it’s an ancient problem. My husband was in charge of shipping. He always used to say that Australians labour is very difficult. Even for bending, they want more money, this sort of thing.
Interviewer: And even for bending they want more money.
Shri Mataji: Bending down. [Laughter]
And I think the labour is causing all the problem to you. But it’s possible if you can, after this recording, if you can write it down that; if you people can really find out where do they spend all this money and publish it, that will solve the problem.
Interviewer: It’s just the money that they had in [unclear].
Shri Mataji: What I heard is that they, they either drink, they are alcoholics or-
Interviewer: Oh, I see.
Shri Mataji: Or they gamble.
Interviewer: The workers, the labours.
Shri Mataji: Yes. So, this money is wasted also. Instead of, you should have done something for their children, for their wives. It would have been much better.
Interviewer: OK.
Oops. [One of her notes falls on the floor. Shri Mataji bends down to pick it up.] I’ll get it. Thank you very much. Thank you for your time.
Shri Mataji: Yes. Nobody else?
[People and Sahaja Yogis are chatting]
Sahaja Yogi: [Unclear]
Shri Mataji: All right. What’s this?
Lady: There are copies for you, actually.
Shri Mataji: What about this?
Lady: And these are just different stories that have appeared, so far, in the papers.
Sahaja Yogi: [Unclear]
Lady: Thanks a lot.
Sahaja Yogi: [Unclear]
[End of video]