Talk to Sahaja Yogis, Vienna, Austria, 1991-08-04

Shri Mataji: It was really very, very nice of all of you to come to the airport. And all the sadness that I had when I left Belgium has disappeared. It is a very creditable thing that Sahaja Yoga has taken such dimensions in Vienna. 

Vienna is a very great, important place in Europe, as you know, a long time back. But Marie Antoinette moved here from Prussia with her [unclear] and her administrative powers. For Me also, Vienna is something very important. And spiritually, we can say it is the spiritual part of Germany. And the great sense about it is that if Germans can take to it, anything can be germinated as they say. 

And that’s what it is, such a great thing to see. Such a blessing upon this Earth that you people have taken to Sahaja Yoga. It is not an easy thing to tell you – Sahaja Yoga, normally. People who are so much in the modern world, professing [unclear] and so-called well educated and that is how [unclear]. In [unclear] I should say. 

But despite all that, here suddenly you find so many people who have not only understood Sahaja Yoga, but it’s gone to their hearts, their lives and they feel it is so important. Also, you have all taken the responsibility. Because it is now spreading through you to Hungary, and also to Czechoslovakia. Something so remarkable that you have been able to achieve. This kind of [unclear] that you feel that you have to help others to come out of the mire of illusion. 

But I think that it is destiny. Because there are so many countries where I have heard, where I have been. But in Austria, the way I have seen people so very deep, expressing their [unclear] is very astonishing and remarkable.

When Gregoire was posted here, he told Me, “Mother, I am so lonely. There is no Sahaja Yogi here”. And then, how we prospered. It is just destiny only, I think so – and also your purvapunyas. Goodness of your past lives. That you are here and that Austria has been [unclear]. So many numbers. Not only in quantity, but also in quality. Whatever may be the reasons, whatever may be the circumstances, it is very surprising. I am sure all the gods in the heavens must be showering flowers upon you. 

To see how you people have taken to this subtle life. Also to understand the inner being, its working, its manifestation, its effects – it is not an easy thing at all. But the enlightenment is so good that you people [unclear]. Only I have to say is that we had to have this happen. But this was proof(?) until – but the collectivity becomes much better. You all joined on your own to resist this kind of nonsense. And then one wonders, how can it be a person who has seen all the miracles, who has [unclear] all the miracles, who has got transformation, everything, from what to what, just slipped. 

I think, hidden somewhere are these conditionings and hankerings which just overpower, like a negative force. And people get lost. They forget what they achieved, what they have got, incidentally. The other day I was talking at Buddha puja, that, at the time of Buddha, how much people had to sacrifice. That, if they were kings, anything, they had to give all their kingdoms, all their wealth, everything into the collective. And they had to wear only one cloth with [unclear], tied up to here. And they had to sleep on mats. And the food was all boiled. It was brought from the villages. It was all cooked and then everybody ate. Whether it was sufficient or not.

Now, they, all of them came from very rich families. You know, [unclear], all these people. Ashoka. Such kings and queens and all of them decided. And how much they had to sacrifice. First of all, all hair and everything had to be shaved. You had to give up your husbands, your wives, your children [unclear]. It was even worse than the nuns and priests that you have. That was all for cleansing. 

I have told in this lecture that Sahaja Yoga has another very beautiful way of cleansing you without going into all these. Very simple. That is collectivity. Collectivity, like the ocean, clears you out. And this is so simple. So easy. You enjoy the collectivity. Once you start enjoying the collectivity, you don’t have to worry about “give up this, give up that”. Automatically it starts happening. As if you get dissolved into the ocean of collectivity. So all these austerities which you don’t have to do. And it has worked out in such a normal way. And you enjoy your collectivity. 

Once in Guru Puja, there was only one tent. And I said, “There is one big castle for you over there. You can go there and stay there”. Nobody would budge out. Not one single person went there. [unclear]. But nobody would. I could not understand. But they were saying, “Mother we were enjoying here. Why should we go there? We are enjoying each other. We are enjoying this climate, the rain, the weather is so beautiful. Why should we go there?” 

I said, “For convenience. After all, these are small children”. “No, no, it is all right”. And the children wouldn’t go either. So it was not the atmosphere. It was the [unclear], that we are all together. Of each other. And for three days, nobody went. It was not a comfortable place from the body point of view. But I think you lost consciousness of your body. Just enjoy the Spirit that lies within you. 

At first, I thought it was very formal, but later I found out – it was your desire. It was very, very surprising for Me. I had kept that castle for three days for you. We made all the arrangements in the castle. Nobody would go there. 

So, I think that we have not learned to enjoy our Spirit and our collectivity. And collectivity is where you feel that also those countries which could not somehow or other get to Sahaja Yoga, must go and give them the blessing. Such a new thing. I mean, people used to go to other countries just to invade them, possess them, rule them – as we had for three hundred years. I mean, generally, I would say, it was the intention. 

But to love them. And to give them the message of love. To redeem, talk about the Truth, was never heard of. Never heard of it. And in that [unclear/midst of Cabella], when you all came up here, they wanted that they should also have a program. Cabella. Then they came. And I asked them, the mayor, “Why do you want to have a program?”. And she said, “Mother, we have never seen such a group of people. They are all saints”. “How can you make out they are saints?”. “They did not quarrel, they did not fight, anything of that kind. They are so quiet, so silent. So beautiful, so loving. “How have you made them?”

I said, “They are like that. They were like that. Just they touched themselves. That is all”. “We also want to touch ourselves. [unclear]”. “All right. Come along”. And at least seventy-five percent got realization. Old people did not get by, but I think they will. And then what happened – I must tell this story. 

Peter heard about it because there was a lot of [unclear]. And the Vatican said they had a newspaper, some sort of a very bad, scandalous one, which had published this report of the French. No other newspaper had published; would not accept it.   So the mayor came out with it and said, “See now, they have published all this”. He belonged to the Christian Democratic Party and all that. He said, “The church has said, so I am out”. But Javier gave him the latest news about [unclear].

[No sounds of talking/ from 16:10 to 18:50].

Shri Mataji: [unclear]. And the man who murdered Mr Carlvi(?) was a mafia man. And that man was paid by the Vatican. He confessed it. So he took him aside and showed him. “About the Vatican, this has appeared. So what?”. The newspaper would not believe that man. And the Vatican did not know what to say to him. 

But this courage for the mayor also comes from the truth that he knows about Sahaja Yoga. And we thought we would never have any pujas there. But he said, “[unclear/this is our house]. You can have all the pujas there”. And he was so victorious and so happy about it and proud of himself. 

Though I did not meet him. Javier was upset. But he was not. He said, “What can I do?”. So this how, your behavior, your love, your understanding of each other, and enjoyment of each other convinced him that this is how, another race, coming from the moon. They don’t look like normal human beings. 

So this is what it is. Our behavior. Even you may be peaceful within. Even, you may be of a very high quality. But your behavior outside is very convincing. And people are amazed how so many people can love happily together. I am Myself amazed. Somehow or other, someone who is not in the collective, who is not worthy of the collective is just thrown away. The whole thing gets decided in no time. Is just thrown away. You don’t have to worry. It’s just like a mechanism which works. Automatically. I mean, it’s like a machinery, I sometimes feel. That all that is not all right with it goes away. Useless people. That’s what is so obvious now. And is working out in such a beautiful manner. 

I am happy we are meeting like this because I never get a chance to talk to the Sahaja Yogis. Mostly in the program, disappear. And the ashram is a very small place where everybody cannot fit. But I must see if you have any questions. Better ask. Everybody ask Me questions. 

Sahaja Yogini: What is the best time for meditation and why? What is the connection between the time of meditation and the activity of the deities? I mean, why at 4 in the morning?

Shri Mataji: You see, when you are getting up from your bed, actually what is happening is that you, your attention is coming out. And from the subconscious to the conscious and then, you become fully conscious. But as the sun starts rising, the right side starts working within. So the mind immediately starts getting involved with the problems of the right side. 

So that is the time we call, between the nighttime thoughts and the morningtime thoughts. It is called vilamba in Sanskrit. It is the time of pause, where your mind has finished with the nighttime thoughts. And the morning time thoughts are not yet started. And deities are more alert because they know, at this time, all the Sahaja Yogis are meditating. 

I may skip at four o clock a night but I am up at five. Every day. Because by that time evening hangovers are over and the morning problems have not yet started. The pause. And the best meditation you should practice is as soon as you get up, you should go and have a shower. And sit down. It is easy to achieve thoughtless awareness at that time than at any other time. That’s why it is deeper meditation also. 

I think in Sahaja Yoga, that is the only, there is no compulsion. You can get up at twelve o’clock; have your meditation at twelve. There is no compulsion. There is no compulsion at all. The dawn is coming. And nature is awakening to welcome the dawn. It is neither hot nor cold. And the dew starts dropping on them. Fresh flowers are only found in the morning. Because that is the time when there is no bombardment from outside. 

Even children normally get up in the morning. Normally. But when we grow up, I have seen that in the Western countries especially – people have developed a habit of sleeping late and getting up late. But if you start getting up early in the morning or at least you start forcing yourself, you can manage it. If you sleep early; what is the use of keeping awake? But say, it is musical night or something. Or My puja. 

I slept in the plane very well. But in the morning time, I am up. Wherever I may be. Not necessary that four o’clock here maybe four o’clock in India. But wherever I am, in the morning time I just get up. Because I find it so fragrant. And in India also mostly – I mean, nowadays people have also become Westernised – but formerly, at five o’clock, everyone would take their bath. One of the reasons for their health is that they get up very early and take their bath.

And you must have seen Indians, when you were in Ganpatipule. You never see them going for a bath and a towel around them. And you will feel much more fresh. Of course, there is no compulsion for meditation; you can do it when you feel like it, whenever you like. There is no time fixed for meditation. But if you ask Me, I would say, this would be a better time. 

Also, suppose you get up at about nine o’clock. Then, you will not even have time to brush your teeth. You are in a hurry, now you have to go, you have to attend to your work. You are in a rush. These ideas start coming to your head. But that is the better time. That is the time, you can say. 

Supposing now you go to your work at eight o’clock, say. You get up at seven. To be ready between seven and eight. But suppose you get up at five. Have your bath immediately. And then you got an hour, nicely. That time, you need not think or plan about anything. As it is, you know we are very sensitive about timings [unclear] our watches. 

If you have to tell somebody you have to go to the airport, even after Sahaja Yoga, people start [unclear]. I don’t know what goes wrong with them. Name of airport. And they become nervous. I travel so much; I have never missed a plane, except for one. And that was [UNCLEAR/had to buy so much?]. [unclear]. I didn’t go. But I am surprised, as soon as you have to go to the airport, the whole thing becomes so [unclear] and all.

Also before you dive into the next day, because you are much more fresh in the morning. You meditate, then you are cleansed. It’s like a bath. Because now the inner growth has to start. You see the nature. In the morning only, it is the best. Everywhere you go you have to see the beauty of the mountain. The Matterhorn. You think of Matterhorn because it is so beautiful only in the morning. 

You will be surprised; it will change your system so well. You can cope with so many things. Because that’s the time and you achieve that. [unclear]. I mean in Sahaja Yoga, nothing is compulsory. It’s your own path. Especially for Germans I must say, it must be the easiest. They are so disciplined themselves. Your liver problems can be improved by that very much. Skin problems can be improved very much. Because at that time there is no emergency of anything. Because of an emergency only you develop all those problems. If people start getting up in the morning, as it is, I think blood cancer [unclear]. And in the morning, you know very well that all vampires and all those people, they disappear. As soon as they see the sun is rising, they are gone. They do not like the sun [unclear].

So when the sun is on top of your head, then you are on the right side. In the middle of the night, you are toward the left. In the morning is the time where these do not exist. Also in the evening. But in the evening you have more things. So between the two extremes, you have to find out the middle path. As you know, we have to be in the center. And for time in the center, one is in the morning and one is in the evening. It is a very nice question. [unclear].

[Unclear], Indian grocery stores. They always start early in the morning. They start with singing early in the morning. The ragas Bhairavi and all are morning ragas. All other ragas are for the evening. There are very few rags for the mid-day. To get out of the traffic jam of your thoughts, morning is the best time. People don’t mind in the evening, but in the morning people mind, because [Unclear]. Any other question?

[A question about dangers of microwaved food].

Shri Mataji: See it is not dangerous but just to eat that food [unclear]. See within we have electric currents. So we are not far from electricity. [unclear]. But the complication is not with the food, it is much earlier. Because here the food is so complicated. So at that level, I do not think it is as dangerous, as at an earlier stage when the food is so much controlled and there is [unclear]. And it has to be a factory product sort of a thing. That is very complicated. And the manufacturing is also, the horrible fertilizers, this, that.

See, it all has repercussions, I feel. It is getting more and more complicated. But you can’t have all entrepreneurs. I mean, for a small city like [UNCLCEAR]. 

Once upon a time, [unclear/Belgium], I was surprised there were only farmers producing [unclear], the thing called as a factory. They never had any factory. In ‘65. And I asked them, “How do you get on with these things like video and television? [unclear]. How do you get them in your homes? From where? How do you get these electricals?” He said, “Very simple”. I said, “How?”. He said, “When you sell twenty-five pounds of tulips to the Japanese, you get a video recorder. And you sell twenty-five bulbs and you get a television. So why should we make television and this, that? We just sell to the Japanese”.  

I said, “Why do the Japanese buy from you?” “Because they have no land. We have land. So why shouldn’t we use our land and sell [unclear]? 

Sahaja Yogi: When Christ went to England, how did He go? Which route did He take?

Another Sahaja Yogi: To India?

Sahaja Yogi: To England. Which route did He take?

Shri Mataji: To England?

Sahaja Yogi: Yes. Did He go by ship?

Shri Mataji: [unclear]. It’s not difficult for Him. He could walk over the water. So many things happened. You know that Moses built a bridge. 

[unclear/A Sahaja Yogi asks a question].

Another Sahaja Yogi: There is an atomic power station in Bulgaria and there is a hole in it. She wants to know whether it is dangerous. 

Shri Mataji: I believe so. But see, it is protected now. I know about it. See human beings go to another extreme, absolutely. There is no need to play so much with these material powers. The three [unclear], they have gone to the extreme of [unclear] power and power of hatred. Simple as that.

Sahaja Yogi: Would we find another energy like atomic energy that is not dangerous?

Shri Mataji: See this is all to be neutralized. This is all in the choice of human beings. If you want destruction you will have it. If you want resurrection, you will have it. But somehow those who are resurrected – if they are bent upon destroying themselves, what can you do? 

Now see this Saddam Hussein, he has come out. Now some sort of a political game they are playing with Saddam Hussein. I mean it is so tremendous. American tactics are all [unclear], because of this, because of that – I just don’t know. They say, because of fundamentalism [unclear]. 

But I find fundamentalism in France, very much. They are very [unclear]. Absolutely fundamentalist to the last one. Italy is also fundamentalist. For these last so many years, it is ruled by the Democratic Christian Party. All fundamentalists. England is very fundamentalist. They all [unclear], England is very corrupt [unclear]. 

Sahaja Yogi: Is it good for us to join the European community? 

Shri Mataji: if you move out from Australia, you would be spreading Sahaja Yoga to Europe. You are very convincing people, I must say. Italians are good no doubt. They are good for their own ascent, for collective ascent. But for spreading Sahaja Yoga, I must say Australians are the best. So you [unclear].

Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji, is it at the talk in Austria, Phillpe said that Vishwa Nirmal Dharma is the solution?

Shri Mataji: You all should desire. See, they said, if there are a thousand people, they are going to accept it as a religion or something. It seems in Austria – good. Germany is difficult but not Austrians. [unclear] who are in complete control of the Vatican. Complete. And the Vatican is one of the richest devil, I can say. [unclear]. ..from German Times? 

Sahaja Yogi: Yes. 

Shri Mataji: German? People have read it or not?

Sahaja Yogi: They have read it. Now they are publishing a segment, recently. They mailed it to all the households in Vienna I think. Just a payments list. If you pay it, they will send. So, I think they sent it free to reach more people. 

Shri Mataji: Apart from the book, you see, in three days people will start becoming [unclear/I have been neglecting]. [I will? ] see that something is done about it. I am really shocked – they are not only criminals; they are murderers, this and that. And against this Pope, so many things are there. This particular Pope. That he sent arms to Nicaragua, that he sent arms to [unclear]. He sent arms to Argentina. To help the Germans there. Can you imagine? Using God’s name, openly. 

In India, such an organization would never have functioned [unclear/I tell you]. [unclear] German. And still, people are not willing to believe anything. This Pope was definitely murdered, no doubt. Horrible people who [unclear]. We were shocked. It’s more than the mafia. [unclear]. It’s tremendous. But Italians I don’t know how they stay. But I can’t understand the Germans. And we are called as; we are blacklisted in Germany – that is why. 

How can a church have a bank? Imagine Sahaja Yoga having a bank. [Laughter]. And that bank siphoning money from all the developing countries. Even our Indian money comes there. And then siphon it off to these banks in Zurich and Switzerland. They have facts, they have figures – everything. And a very good way is to create a bank in the name of God. Get money in the name of God and send it to these people in Switzerland. 

I mean, you people should have taken it up. These things are of the mafia of the worst type. But that is, the mafia is a mafia. This is God’s name.

Horrible things I have heard. See that [unclear] people told us that this place was a nunnery. And one of the monks broke and out of that, they saw a nun being completely buried standing there in the doors. Alive. Also, they said that in one of the nunneries, where the nuns were not allowed to go out. So it caught fire. And they came away to this place and they found groups of small, small children burnt there. Such unnatural, secretive life they were living. Nobody wants to probe and find out. What is going on behind.

Of course, in India also, we have such things. Not saying. But it is not organized, you see. Because the religion is not organized, on a small scale, such things pass away. There have been no improvements over the last two thousand years. And this French thing is also done by these Vatican, you know that. I think they are frightened because, this Fatima thing, they said, [unclear] mother is going to manage it and this is the resurrection time. So they are frightened, and they are after us. 

But imagine, for one boy in France, four Germans went [unclear]. [unclear]. Can you imagine? Like a whirling ball. You must be drunk alright. Every school has a gate. And they published it all over the world. Even Rustom wrote to Me that he had seen it. You know why. They published it in Bangkok. And a lady who was a Sahaja Yogini – she was working in a French school – she lost her job. Can you imagine such things? While this boy was taken to the psychiatrist. And they say he is [unclear]. And he did not know anything about sex. So they all got frightened, and they explained to him everything very clearly. So that’s the education he got.

Freud was anti-Christ. No doubt about it. So they are all following Freud. Such a conspiracy. If you go to India. From there you take a plane to Delhi. From Delhi by train. Then by taxi. These four people went there. So many boys come from India. Nobody does that. Germany, you had so many young people who came and stayed. Leave alone in India, so many children are sent at their age to schools. Can anybody enter into a school just like that? Without any permission, just like that. 

Told lies after lies; they are such liars. This one woman is talking; she’s a liar. I know she is a very big liar. Throughout she has been lying. I mean, how can they believe one woman? And they don’t want to believe you all. Just want to believe one woman. Stupid thing. What is her credibility? 

So that shows what a negative, formidable force we have. [unclear]. Don’t you worry, we have [unclear/practitioners?] with us. Actually, I don’t know. I gave a bandhan to the judge of the child. Was very adamant. Suddenly he’s come on our side. And he is giving all the clues to us – “they will ask us this question, so please keep this answer ready and all”. [unclear]. So don’t you worry? It’s a mafia basically, all mafias.

So [unclear], any questions you have, you can write to Me. You have to be happy that we are out of it. 

Sahaja Yogis: Thank You very much, Mother. Thank You.

[End of recording].