Arrival In Egypt and Interview

Cairo (Egypt)

1996-10-26 Airport Arrival and Interview Cairo Egypt DP-RAW, 32'
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Interview at airport, at arrival, in 1996, Cairo, Egypt, October 26th, 1996

Shri Mataji: Thank you very much of inviting me.
I am very happy. I’ve been here, before also, twice.
Interviewer: In Egypt?
Shri Mataji: In Egypt, yes.
Much before.
For this purpose also to meet your brothers and sisters.
Shri Mataji: No, no, no, no. Just for a just for a visit.
Interviewer: Just for a visit. You are welcome here in Egypt and we are very happy to know that this is not your first visit just for a just for a visit in this country and you-
Shri Mataji: I came with my daughters here and my husband was that time, in the Shipping Corporation. So, we went by our ship and we went to Egypt.
Interviewer: Yes, the last visit to Egypt was in which year?
Shri Mataji: This is just a friendship then.
Interviewer: When?
Shri Mataji: It was, I think, 19- I, exactly, I don’t know. That should be about 60, 1960.
Interviewer: 1960. So, since 30 years ago you didn’t come to Egypt. I think you are going to find Egypt changed for the best.
Shri Mataji: Very much changed,
Interviewer: Yes. You have any idea or following up the development here in Egypt?
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes. I have been, I have been.
Interviewer: Yes, the peace process and so?
Shri Mataji: Ah, very much changed.

That time, Shah was here, Shah.
Interviewer: Shah, of Iran?
Shri Mataji: The King was, what do we call?
Sahaja Yogi: Farouk king.
Interviewer: Farouk king, yes. It’s about 50 years ago
Shri Mataji: Yes, and he went away. Now it’s so changed, everything is so changed.
Interviewer: So, this very nice Society brothers and sisters of your school, if I can call it, when did you imagine this nice idea and the help/realm? [Unsure]
Shri Mataji: I didn’t imagine. It’s not an imagination. You see, when I was born I knew about the spiritual life and about the ‘wali’ [saint], as you call it. And I thought my mission is to make everybody a ‘wali’.
Interviewer: Everybody?
Shri Mataji: Everybody, as far as possible, en-masse.
Interviewer: To have a kind of power, spiritual power.
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, en-masse. Because individually, if there’s one Sufi or one wali, nobody understands. They all try to torture like Muhammad sahib. Hazrat Muhammad was an Incarnation according to me, he was very Divine. But nobody understood him. They troubled him so much, tortured his life throughout, you see. Why? Because they didn’t understand who he is. Now unless and until you become the wali, you cannot understand reality. Like, supposing there is a painting and it’s raining heavily, in the painting. It’s a painting. But unless and until you really go into the rain, it’s not raining isn’t it? You just see the painting. The reality is like that.
You have to get into reality, to know what is reality, otherwise all these problems come in. Once you get to reality, nobody has to tell you that, “Do this, do that”. Nothing. You just don’t do anything that is wrong. You just do everything so righteous, so beautiful. You don’t have to tell. It is within yourself, religion is within, it’s not outside. Once that religion is awakened in you, then you don’t have to face any problem. Religion should never bring you problems.
Interviewer: Problems yes of course, of course.

Shri Mataji: Our religion cannot be followed by some sort of a force, no. It has to come from within. And for that, this awakening is here. So, Muhammad sahib has said, “Unless and until you know yourself, you cannot know God”.
Interviewer: Of course, yes.
Shri Mataji: All right. So, we have to know ourselves. All right? And if we have to know ourselves, what do we have to do?
Interviewer: Inner look inside.
Shri Mataji: Now, still, still, still, if you start looking inside, what happens that it is all artificial through your ego or conditioning you’re looking inside. Your mind is nothing but a myth, you see. It’s a myth, myth, myth.
Interviewer: I know yes, myth.
Shri Mataji: Myth. So, how to, how to enter into that? So, there’s already a machinery made within ourselves, which works it out. This, about this, Muhammad has called it ‘asas’, [base, foundation]‘asas’. It’s the Kundalini. The word given ‘asas’. But nobody wants to see beyond the words, you see. By words, you cannot change.

Interviewer: Yes, yes.
Other journalist: So, you hope to meet the wife of the president Hosni Moubarak in this visit?
Shri Mataji: Ah, she said so. I don’t know, you see, if she will leave.
Other journalist: You mean now for week-end.
Shri Mataji: Yes, I would love to meet her. She’s lady from Egypt or from somewhere else?
Interviewer: The first lady of Egypt, she’s Egyptian, yes. She’s Egyptian, first lady.
Other journalist: But now we have
Shri Mataji: She’s the second one.
Interviewer: No, no, no, no. It means because she is the wife of our president.
Shri Mataji: I know, she’s first lady.
Interviewer: Yes.
Shri Mataji: He has only one wife now.
Interviewer: Of course, yes.
Shri Mataji: I’m sorry, I’m asking because at that time, then it was. I’m sorry.

Another interviewer: Do you succeed to reconcile Muslims, Christians?
Shri Mataji: These are the same. They have the same culture; you see the point?
Interviewer: So, yes of course, of course, I understand you very well. So, your big family, I know that you have about 5 million brothers and sisters worldwide in about 67 countries. So, do you make efforts to make peace in some troubled areas like here in the Middle East?
Shri Mataji: You see by revolution, by creating revolution you cannot make peace. It’s a wrong idea. What you have to do is the evolution, what you have to do, that inside peace, you have to find. We have to find the peace within ourselves. Artificial peace you may have outside, all right?

Interviewer: You can help us to discover the peace in ourselves?
Shri Mataji: Yes, so first thing, you become the peace within yourself. They are all of a different, different countries and of different so-called culture. They all have become, we call that sahaj culture. Sahaj culture means spontaneous. And they don’t do anything wrong. I don’t have to tell them, “Don’t drink, don’t smoke don’t take drugs”. Nothing. No more “don’t” .They know themselves. Because one has no eyes to see, so one cannot see. But if you get the eyes, you can see what is good for you, what is constructive for you and what is destructive for you, isn’t it?

So, little bit we have to evolve more that’s all. As Muhammad himself has said. Nobody is bothered about that part, that you have to know yourself first.
Interviewer: Excuse me, you said Mohamed. Mohamed what?
Shri Mataji: Muhammad sahib.
Interviewer: Muhammad sahib.
Shri Mataji: We call him Muhammad sahib in India, to give him the respect.
Interviewer: Sahib.
Shri Mataji: But Hazarat Muhammad I mean.
Interviewer: This is the name of our Prophet Mohamed.
Shri Mataji: Of course.
I mean the same.
Interviewer: Yes, yes.
Sahaja Yogi: She knows everything about.

Other journalist: Do you remember something about your last visit to Egypt? What do you remember?
Shri Mataji: Bad.
Interviewer: Very bad?
Shri Mataji: Yes, that way, you see, they were very self-indulgent, they were drinking and all kinds, yes, Egypt.
Interviewer: Drinking water?
[Laughter]
Other journalist: Alcohol.
Shri Mataji: And I didn’t like it very much that time. You see, for a country which calls itself Islam, it was bit too much. Too much for westernization.
Interviewer: Westernization, yes.
Shri Mataji: Very much, very Western people. I didn’t like it very much.

Interviewer: Do you have any idea about the violence which was caused in Egypt in the past few years?
Shri Mataji: I know.
Interviewer: You know everything about Egypt what’s your comment please?
Shri Mataji: I say that you all become ‘walis’ now. Time has come for you to become ‘walis’. And then you will see that all this is finished off, you see. Because they are blind. It’s a question of you getting the power of love. They have never believed in the Power of Love of God. Once you get the power of love within yourself, you can transform that part. It’s the transformation, is the solution.

Interviewer: Violence must stop, violence.
Shri Mataji: Of course.
Interviewer: Yes, stop now, here, in Egypt.
Shri Mataji: They have to be told that, “You don’t know what you are doing”. Those who are creating violence, you have to tell them that what you are doing is wrong. But not this way. By giving them their Self-realization, they are knowing themselves. They will know it’s wrong. You don’t have to say anything anymore.

Interviewer: Sorry, we know that you have come from a long journey and we don’t want to make you so uncomfortable.
Shri Mataji: No, I’m verry fine. I’m very comfortable.
Interviewer: OK. Are you going to make a tour here in Egypt?
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes. They have arranged. What have you arranged? To meet some people?
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, we have conference tomorrow.
Shri Mataji: All right.
Sahaja Yogi: 8:00 o’clock, yes.
Shri Mataji: Conferences.
Sahaja Yogi: Everybody will enjoy your coming
Shri Mataji: All right. That’s nice.
Sahaja Yogi: And it is up to you Mother.

Shri Mataji: These are from Austria.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes.
Shri Mataji: And these from Italy.
Sahaja Yogi: From Austria, from Paris, from…
Shri Mataji: These from Istria we have people. Now they have come to help you here in Egypt.

Interviewer: You have a spiritual United Nations.
Shri Mataji: Yes, of course.
Interviewer: Spiritual one.
Shri Mataji: Spiritual.
Interviewer: Not this one.
Shri Mataji: This one is artificial.
Interviewer: No, yes. that’s why it can’t succeed, sometimes.
Shri Mataji: My husband was there. You must be knowing about him, that he was Secretary General and all that. He himself said, “This is the real United Nations”.
Interviewer: You.
Shri Mataji: No, my husband says that.
Interviewer: Yes, about you, United Nations.
[Laughter]

Interviewer: Excuse me, what are the- I don’t want to say great or high ranking but famous or prominent personalities which are ones of your brothers and sisters. I mean,
Journalist: In Sahaja Yoga. Yogis.
Shri Mataji: Ah, Sahaja Yoga.
Interviewer: Yes.

Shri Mataji: We call it SA-HA-JA. And you don’t say ‘dja’, you say ‘ja’. ‘Saha’ means born with you. ‘Saha’ is with, ‘ja’ is born. Born with you is the right to become one with is All-pervading Power which you call ‘Ruh’.
Interviewer: Are there presidents or Prime Ministers or film stars in your family? I don’t want to say sect or cult. I’m going to call it family, big family, in your big family.
Shri Mataji: Of course. It’s not a cult, you know. We don’t take money, we are not interested. Main thing is that, you see, cult means they take money. Everybody is like that.
Interviewer: No, no. I didn’t call it cult, I said big family. Big UN family.
Shri Mataji: A very big family. It’s a United worlds family we have. And they called me ‘Mother’. And I’m very old now I’m 73.
Interviewer: I don’t think so.
[Laughter]

Interviewer: Before your Spirit, you are old.
Shri Mataji: All right. Spirit keeps you young. I am very happy to meet you all here. And I wish I could do something for Egypt. Because I had a great feeling for Sadate also.
Interviewer: For Sadate.
Shri Mataji: Very great feeling for him.
Interviewer: Did you meet him?
Shri Mataji: Yes. He was a Realized Soul.
Interviewer: He was a member of this family.
Shri Mataji: Yes, he was. But he couldn’t do anything. It’s all right, it’s all right.
You see, his ‘Ruh’ is there.

Interviewer: Did you meet any other presidents?
Shri Mataji: No, no, not yet. But maybe.
Interviewer: No, no, in the past, I mean.
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, in the past. He may come as, maybe reborn. But just now what it is, in the whole world, people are worried about Egypt very much.
Interviewer: The whole world ?
Shri Mataji: Whole world.
Interviewer: Worries about Egypt.
Shri Mataji: Yes.
Interviewer: Why?
Shri Mataji: Because of the problem they are facing. It should not become like Turkey again. You see?
Interviewer: It should not come to? What did you say please?
Shri Mataji: No, I said people are worried that this country should not become again a fundamentalist country or something like that.

It should not. You see, the trouble is that the fight is against Western life, Western culture and it looks very nice to say because Western culture doesn’t have so much sense of morality. So, it’s nice to say that it’s wrong we should not have it, you see, a very wrong style of life. All right. But the other one is also of falsehood. Because by force you cannot keep
Interviewer: I think this is a good omen [unsure] for Egypt. We should.
Shri Mataji: We should. We should start with few people maybe, but then it will grow. Yes, it grows. I started this, these people who are here, with one person in their country.
Interviewer: Really ?
Shri Mataji: One person.
Sahaja Yogi: I’m very happy because I’m the first son of the Mother in Egypt.
Shri Mataji: He is the first one.
Interviewer: And I call myself the ‘one thousand’.
[Laughter]

Shri Mataji: And very intelligent, very intelligent. Because I used to think that if they don’t have understanding of what I’m going to say, then how will they take to it [Sahaja Yoga]? But you are very intelligent. You are understanding well that it’s not artificial.
[Unclear conversation]

Shri Mataji: What he says?
Interviewer: No, he is asking about President Sadate.
[Unclear conversation in Arabic]
Famous people.
Sahaja Yogi: We have actor brothers actors and movies and big high level members of the Yoga, brothers and sisters around the world.
Journalist: Presidents.
Shri Mataji: I didn’t follow these people.
Alganesh: He is asking if, in Sahaja Yoga, there are some very famous personalities. Like ministers, president, actors.
Shri Mataji: Normally such people don’t come, you know.
Interviewer: Why ?
Shri Mataji: They suffer from ego, you know.
[Laughter]

Interviewer: But there is Mother.
Shri Mataji: No, we have. We have some very great people with us, we can call them. Say, in India, we have got our Minister Seshan who was the election commission. He was the head of the election commission. Very, very honest, very great man. Like that, we have in every country someone who is very high. But it’s not important, because we have nothing to gain from that. We don’t want to utilize their position or we do not want to have their, sort of, a publicity stunt from them.
Sahaja Yogi: You don’t need publicity. You don’t need anything.
Shri Mataji: No need. If there is truth, there is truth, you see. These things are artificial again. It’s the point. It’s the same point.
Interviewer: Yes. it comes from the first [unclear] again.
Shri Mataji: Yes, that’s true.
[Laughter]
It’s all artificial. It will all disappear. It will not be there. But spiritual life is permanent, eternal.

Interviewer: There are few people. They are waiting for you outside and we don’t want to waste your time and-
Shri Mataji: But I hope you’re are satisfied.
Sahaja Yogi: Of course, of course, we are lucky to meet you. And to meet brother and sisters from Austria.
[Unclear conversation in Arabic]

Shri Mataji: I didn’t follow.
Sahaja Yogi: He sends his best regards and welcome to Egypt and he is so sorry, he has no possibility, no chance to come to meet you at the airport because he has a meeting with President Mourabak.
Shri Mataji: All right.
Interviewer: But he will meet after.

Shri Mataji: So, what is this newspaper?
Interviewer: Al-Misri [unsure]
Journalist: The Egyptian Gazette.
Sahaja Yogi: Al-Misri in Arabic, Egyptian Gazette in English.
Shri Mataji: You are in Arabic.
Interviewer: Yes.
Shri Mataji: I see.
Interviewer: And English.
Shri Mataji: It is in both the languages what you print?
Interviewer: What?
Shri Mataji: You print it in both the languages, Arabic and-
Interviewer: No separately.
Shri Mataji: Two separately.
Interviewer: Yes, of course we are big establishment.
Al-Misri is different from the Egyptian Gazette.

Shri Mataji: All right. So very nice to have met you all.
Interviewer: We hope you will enjoy your visit here and you enjoy your time with your brothers and sisters.
[End of video]