Grégoire’s talk in Connecticut,December31,2014
This is the result of unplanned movement, and I think the group that is here is the group that had to be here with perhaps one qualification, that Dorothy and Jennifer are welcome, absolutely, but you do not have the same level of information that most of the other people will have. I will not adjust what I have to say , so you will have to hang on and absorb what you can because some of it is new for you, but most of it is not for the others.
What I want to do is share with you my understanding of what has happened in Sahaja Yoga in the last ten years because we need to learn to face reality in a way which is non-reactive, that is overcoming feelings that we have experienced over the last ten years, of disappointment, sometimes even of despair, but also of fear. For new people, or relatively new people, and there are none here, that may be a bit bizarre.
The truth of the matter is that what we knew in Sahaja Yoga is very different from what we experienced in the last ten years. I am speaking about the decade, 2003 to 2013, which corresponds to the withdrawal, the inner withdrawal of Shri Mataji up to the death of her husband.
In this account I will be a little bit personal. When I got my realization, I went through so many important changes that I was asking myself : where will I be in twenty years? I’d imagine being on some ladder towards the heavens. And now, if I look back, forty years soon … because in August it will be forty years since I met Shri Mataji… As I look back I think, “OK Greg, what does it look like forty years after?”
It is very different than anything I could’ve imagined. I think the main difference in me, is my capacity to examine myself. I think this is really important. Of course, I gave realization, but I don’t like to use this term; we allowed realization to be given. It’s a little nuance. I’ll talk about proselytizing in a little while. But what I have seen when I examine myself is that I am more real than I was 40 years ago, yet 40 years ago I had visited a state of awareness which was so high that I never went back there.
But that state of awareness was given by Shri Mataji and the reason why I tell you this is because it happened to all of us. She gave us a very high state of awareness, to us individually and collectively so that we would have somewhere the feeling that yes, this is real and this is possible. And actually, when she gave me my most powerful experience of my entire life, I was actually doubting myself as I explained in The Advent and that’s when She threw me into amrut. And that never happened like that afterwards but am I a better person now than before? I would say yes because I can examine myself. And by examining myself, a huge chunk of it is to be able to deal with my own limitations. Because before Sahaja Yoga we can’t really deal with our own limitations because a) we can’t see them, b) if we start seeing
them, we react. if I am jealous of someone, for example, jealousy is such an ugly feeling that I will tend to obfuscate it. And if I see that I am jealous, I will react in a way to handle that, just as an example.
You see, She has given us this capacity to self examine. I am not going to entertain you with a list of my shortcomings otherwise this talk will be too long for what you are prepared to listen to! But it’s instructive to me and I am still working out at and I really mean it when I say that in depth I am a disciple, I’m a chela. And it’s also true Shri Mataji has worked a certain number of things, with me at least, but also with some others and one of the things that She has worked out with me is the illusion of being special which may not have visited many of you but has visited some of you, which is a very dangerous illusion.
It is dangerous when we start feeling that we are special. Why did I feel that? Because, relatively speaking, I did get a great deal of Her attention, because she told me about a number of my past lives, some of these I haven’t spoken with anybody, (so I enjoy saying this before my wife because I want to leave her curious until my last days – laughter – ) but one of the reasons I don’t tell is because it would be completely pointless, it would be so pointless to my children. But She gave me enough elements to feel that I’m a little bit special. And I had this redeeming moment when She came to visit me, and some of you may know the anecdote, and I tried to explain this to Guido to help him but it didn’t work.
When She came to me in Kathmandu, Nepal, She was cooking for me. She came twice and so on and so forth – Voila, at some point I was feeling a little bit special. I had a large bedroom with a large bed and She was sleeping next to me like an Indian mother, She was cooking my food, so you start feeling a little bit like, “Mmm, you know, mmm, mmm.” And at some shop point She looked at me straight in the eyes and told me, “Grégoire, Jesus Christ is my favorite Son and He is happy that I’m saying it to you.”
I was very, very grateful because it gives you an enormous sense of perspective. In the mystical rose of Dante, you have the goddess in the
middle, you have the deities, you have the devas, you have the sharanj ivans, you have the archangels, you have the angels, you have the ganas, and then, somewhere on the outer rim of the galaxy you have, you know… people like us.
She definitely wanted me to work on this illusion of being special, which I had to, and one of the reasons was because in Sahaja we are all special. So I cannot be more special than anyone else who got the grace of the Goddess because that it is what distinguishes me, but it distinguishes them too. And therefore if we all are special then no one is special and that understanding is very salutary to everybody, and we need to remember it and not be impressed by people who will come and say, “Shri Mataji told me this, Shri Mataji told me that, I was with Mother, She did this, She did that,” and all the new yogis think, wow, wow, wow.
Because some people want to generate the feeling that they are worthy of more respect, more attention, and that brings me to one of the subjects of this evening, which is the meaning of the last 10 years.
So starting from the beginning, I think it’s very important that I could examine myself, and the process is not yet over, and I want to extrapolate, I want to say that it is very important that we as a collective, we can examine ourselves, as a collective, better than we have been able to do and that is the purpose of sharing these things with you.
Now starting with the beginning there is a very important point that I want to make which some of you may have overlooked or may not be aware of it. And this is that Shri Mataji opened the Kundalini, the Adi Kundalini in Nargol. When She told me the story She said that She went to spy actually, (Sahaja is very interesting), She went to spy on a camp of Rajneesh, who is an incarnation of Ravannah, which was in Nargol. And She was looking with her yogic powers and could see that Ravannah, Rajneesh was possessing everybody. And She also said that Ravanna recognized Her and told Her, “Don’t you remember…,” trying to speak of the life when she was Sita, and She played,”I know, know… not at all, Sir, you must be confusing me…” You can imagine, the Mahamaya!
But She said that She was horrified to see how far evil had gone and She said, “I found out that if I would not intervene now, mankind would be destroyed. So, as a consequence”, She said, “I decided to raise the Kundalini ALTHOUGH MANKIND WAS NOT READY.” And I really want to insist on emphasizing, “although mankind was not ready”. Because that is critical to understand everything that is happening.
So She rose the Kundalini and from there on you can see, as we were saying because we had a discussion the last 12 hours here, you can see that at the beginning, you can see that Shri Mataji was expecting things to happen a bit differently. In the beginning She was saying you will get your realization, you will be in the kingdom of God, and this, and this, and this – if you listen to
the early talks, and then you can see that Shri Mataji started adjusting. Why?
Because we are the free electron in the Leela, we are the random factor, human beings, and we remain random because the integration with the Param Chaitanya is not complete, because the instrument is not perfect. So Shri Mataji, in this incarnation, discovered something new, actually, how to operate human beings who get their realization but were not ready, and for the last 30 years, She helped us solve that situation and adjust those problems. The Buddha got his realization and never went backwards. But we are in this very weird situation, le malheur des existentialistes, where we are and we aren’t yogis at the same time. Because strictly speaking we are yogis when we are above the Agnya chakra and we are not yogis when we are under the Agnya chakra.
If any one of us takes one day of 24 hours and we are honest, in this exercise of self examination, we will have to confess that if we are faced with a challenge with something that upsets us, something that puts us under pressure, we are quite capable of being under the Agyna chakra. If we are hurt by people who are unjust, we are revengeful, we feel angry, frustrated, faced by injustice, faced by slander, faced by calumny, faced by evil, we react to it.
Again, this first postulate, that we are not ready, explains what happened in these last 10 years because when Shri Mataji was in the active part of Her ministry, when She was pumping us up with blessings, auspiciousness, and vibrations, and teaching us at pujas, we were all following Her like little doggies. She was actually making sure that we were at a level which is what made us discover each other because we loved each other. I am always saying that the 1970s was the discovery, the 1980s was the phase of expansion, the 1990s was when we were attacked by the outside powers, especially in Europe when we had to face the power of the State, and the decade starting 2000 was when we were attacked from the inside, because in my 30 years of Sahaja yoga before, there were freak individuals who had to work out their own karma, or a self promoting leader who was put out of Sahaja by Shri Mataji. But these were individual problems, we didn’t have a rift, we didn’t have a schism, we didn’t have a sect, all of which have appeared in the last years.
But now comes the elaboration, I am always saying if you want to learn about Shri Mataji, watch the Animal Channel: whether it’s a mother bear or a mother tiger, she raises her kids, she gives them everything, she forgets herself for her kids but at some point, she throws them out! Because if she doesn’t, if the mother bear doesn’t throw this little bear out, he will never manage to be a big bear. That’s it and when I’m sitting in my chair, watching this poor little bear, I’m saying, “That’s me! That’s me!” That’s what She did by withdrawing. So why did she do it? You have to also know that Shri Mataji often spoke about “when I will go”. “What will you do with Me, will you treat me the way they have treated the other Incarnations? “
She spoke a lot about Peter and Paul. She had a lot of attention here, and She also told us that at the end of Her life She would go in sannyasa. Sannyasa is a period of withdrawal. We always felt, I always thought that She would go somewhere in India that we cannot go there, that She would not receive people. I never imagined that by sannyasa, She would have this
internal withdrawal which is a tapasya, which no Incarnation had done, not even Christ because the crucifixion was certainly not a pleasant adventure but in a couple of hours it was gone. But Shri Mataji, for about 10 years, being the Power which moves the stars, accepted being in a situation where she was in a wheelchair. And I was happy not to be around in those days because I did not want to watch it, and I think that, for people who wanted to watch it, who took advantage of Her durbar, – because in this absence She allowed a vacuum to create,- it became their choice and that became their
So the fact that we were not prepared, the fact that Shri Mataji prepared what she was going to do with Her cubs means that at some point She was going to test them. In the Apocalypse there is one reference to the Goddess which is plain, (there are a number of references which relate to Sahaja Yoga but they are very hermetic). It’s of course when the Goddess appears. Hence She’s in pain, the pain of giving birth to the Child, this child is the collective Child, and She’s going to give birth, and the Child that She’s giving birth to is going to rule the nations with a rod of iron. So much for democracy! That’s a description of Shri Kalki, okay?
She’s giving birth, and then comes the dragon who’s going to devour the Child, and then the Child for some years is taken in the wilderness. Now the 14 years of wilderness, God knows what it is – some people said it’s Cabella because of the road leading there (laughs). I have no clue, I don’t want to interpret, but then it’s Bhairava who comes to the rescue, so it’s a left side cleansing which takes us out of this situation. So how are we going to clean the left side? Well we had the video this morning. She said that we are all on the right side, but because we are on the right side, we need to find a solution on the left side because that’s what will balance us. So the solution on the left side, and I had this intuition when I was speaking to the Chinese collective in Changsa in October 2014, because we were preparing the Mahavira puja. You see, in Mahavira you have one of the two sides of the gate. Remember you have two sides of the door at the Agyna, one is faith and the other is surrender. And we focus on surrender because we are Westerners and we think that what we need is to surrender, but we don’t focus enough on faith. Why? Because we are afraid. The very word faith is synonymous with abuse in the history of mankind. It’s in the name of the faith that people kill each other, it’s in the name of the faith that the Spanish burned the Inca Atahualpa and so on and so forth. So we are afraid of it.
We need, at the heart level, we need to desire fully the capacity to realize that Shri Mataji is actually our own Mother. And when we can do that, when we can internalize better through the power of our desire, this relationship with Mother, then we gain self-confidence. When we gain self-confidence, which is actually what we really need now, then we can face the truth and we can eliminate this terrible trap on the left Visshudhi which the Indians don’t have but we have, because the left Visshudhi prevents us from having faith, because we always feel guilty and are afraid of our ego, and we are guilty
because we have ego because we don’t have faith in ourselves. We don’t have faith in ourselves because we misunderstand that, “if I have faith in myself I’ll have too much ego.” Ts ts ts, It’s only through the power of the left side that we can start having faith in ourselves. But that faith has to bring us through the Mahavira gate, through the Agnya, and of course,If we start asserting the power of faith below the Agyna, that is the path of emotionality and that’s what happened in the reaction of some yogis to what happened. Because two things happened in the period under review.
Shri Mataji opened this period to test us. And what She was going to test us about were the two main deviations that affect religions. One deviation is externalism, that is that when we cannot live the living, organic religion of the Goddess, which is about state of beings. When that subtle dimension, that subtle light fades away, in the end it’s so faint that we don’t even know when it is no longer there.
But we are yogis isn’t it? We sing bhajans, we go to pujas. And the Christians go to the Mass. And we spread Sahaja Yoga – like Paul! Because externalism in shunting up a religion. Externalize is recognized when you have ritualism, you have devolution to an authority which tells you what God wants, because it’s much easier than being your own Guru. But then such a person has his own followers and that becomes sectarian: this group separates from the others. So you have splits on the lines of hierarchies, you have also the over-mentalization, rituals, envelopes, the nonsense that you in America have
I’m sorry but I would say it right away: these Indian boys were on the Council and they sent us, very late in the game, a 13 page or so, pompous memo, to tell us how to arrange the organization of the CC, ignoring everything that had been discussed by the rest of the world collective. I’m sorry, I worked in governance, I’m trained in political science, my job was to put countries together, not people, and there are 191 of them, I know something about rules and regulations from my job. But when I saw that, it was just a piece of mental externalization.
And therefore in a religion you had the counter reaction to right side externalization and it is is emotional, a left side deviation leading to fundamentalism. Because fundamentalism in a religion is an emotional reaction whereas externalization is a mental reaction.
And Shri Mataji tested us so that we work out the two main deviations of all the religions.
So the instrument to test us on the externalization was Sir CP Srivastava. Now Sir CP Srivastava is the husband of Shri Mataji,a man of immense presence, prestige, we had awe for him, immense affection for him, we never thought he could do anything wrong. And very early Shri Mataji said to a number of us that She didn’t want us to follow him, but he was the husband so we had a sense of protocol. Shri Mataji always wanted us to respect Her family so here we were in a dilemma where we always expressed our affection, and protocol, and were watchful to, which was a delicate balance to maintain.
And Shri Mataji equipped a few of us with the capacity to resist what would have been an encroachment of Mr. Srivastava’s management on Sahaja Yoga during the years where She allowed his regency to take place. Because during this period the mechanisms of externalization were put into place, which takes the shape of institutions, power given to people who had positions in society but had not really developed the inner religion, control of money flows, business approach, a role linked to a position, elaborate rules and procedures, absurd regulations to take vibration etc. All this stuff started flowing into Sahaja by people who were unsuspecting that this is the external shell, this is the externalized thing, because the living reality, they had not been as lucky as we were, living as we did, living in the bliss, what I call le nid des bienheureux… the nest of the blessed.
This was the state that we knew when we traveled together in India, the way of interacting that we used because we were in oneness, in love. Many new yogis have not experienced this to the extent that we had. So when all these impressive things started developing in Sahaja, led by a man of such high authority, then of course they started following. I’m pretty sure Shri Mataji allowed this to happen in Sahaja because She was testing us, She was testing us because we, without a test, would not go beyond ourselves. Because we were too comfortable with the blessings and the state that She gave us but that we had not acquired because we were not prepared enough. Remember?
So for the last 10 years, the collective went in all directions, including in this country, which is the Visshudhi, which is to promote the unity and the integration, which is the most glorious vision of Sahaja, and were, believe it or not, most people would roar with laughter because the story of fighting here is like the story of Gulliver: would you cut an egg from the top or from the bottom? Two years ago when I was here for the marriage of my son in Dallas, I had to discuss with some of you who fortunately were not drawn into this quarrel between supporters of whether we should go with Sahaja
Yoga or Sahaja Meditation. This is the same as arguing whether this glass is a shape or whether this glass is a material. It is the same thing, the glass is both shape and material and that makes the glass. And in the same way, in Sahaja yoga, you cannot separate the path from the destination because the path is meditation and the destination is yoga. Because yoga is union and without the meditation you don’t reach the union. So whether you privilege one or the other is a question of hamsa and to make an issue out of it, – splitting the collective such as this one which is so strategically important for the rest of the planet – is an expression of externalization. And I must say that those who reacted against Sahaja meditation had an emotional reaction and you can see that, in some of their reaction, you had the characteristics of fundamentalism, because fundamentalism being from the left and coming from the heart is violent and the emotions are strongest. Yet imposing the formula and procedure of sahaja meditation was a right sided mistake that triggered it all.
So externalization was introduced, by the way, by those who Sir CP had flattered by telling them that, “forget all these old power hungry leaders, they are the past, you are the future “ and they all came like a divisive force. ( Including some Maharashtra Indians abroad). You have no clue what we went through; you were silently trying to enjoy your meditation period and we didn’t share it with you. Some people said, “why didn’t you share it?” Because we didn’t want to upset the collective, this was our job to try and handle this situation: we could not disclose the medical condition of Our Guru for reasons of protocol.
It is very important to understand that there is no animosity whatsoever because animosity is not a feeling that we want to harbour. As yogis we want to love, and we are disturbed when we can’t love, but love is not to be compromised, because if love compromises with what is bad, we prepare the bed for any form of exploitation. If love is a path to such compromise, you do not stand for the truth or for dharma, as Shri Mataji said this morning in the speech.
The destination is Sat Chit Ananda. When you put these three words together, they form the love that we aspire to, not the emotions of the fundamentalists nor the love of the cowards who, in the name of love, refused to take a stand. And cowards, believe me, exist in Sahaja Yoga, in the same way that hypocrites exist in Sahaja yoga, in the same way that we have exploiters, including people who benefited materially, which is something against the teachings of Shri Mataji. That’s the case for the failed leader of Tolyatti in Russia.
It could also become the case with ISPS in India, which apparently started evolving according to a private school business model, which is legitimate in the world of men but does not belong to the vision of Shri Mataji. When we send our kids to ISPS it’s to have a spiritual education according to the vision of Shri Mataji, not to send them to school where management could be moved by a profit generating mechanism, which is fine, but not with us. Nor is it OK to use Mother’s brand to attract the parents who will pay the fees for the child to get an education which is not what they wanted when they sent their kids to a school in India.
Now facing all that,it cannot be the reaction of one or two leaders like me because what then happened was that those who opposed us wanted to make us look irrelevant by ignoring the issues but personalizing the debate. The attacks became personalized, the leaders are the problem. I think that the reason we had all those tests is to invite all of us to remember one thing.
When Shri Mataji said “I bow to all the seekers of truth.” She doesn’t say, “I bow to the seeker of consciousness, She doesn’t say I bow to the seeker of joy, She doesn’t say I bow to the seeker of love.”
Sattya Yuga is the age of truth! Sattva guna is the channel of truth!
And as children of Shri Mataji we need to wish for the truth, we need to love the truth. And with that we need to self examine otherwise we become hypocrites. If we don’t have this courage we become hypocrites. And we have not come into Sahaja to create a community which will end up like yogis going to pujas the way that Christians go to the mass. That’s not what we came in Sahaja for. It’s not that anyone of us need to do anything special but in our consciousness we need to accept this: in the same way that we self examine we need to examine the state of our community.
Not all of this sounds too merry but actually it is very good news, and if it wasn’t good news I wouldn’t tell you for I don’t want to bring a message that doesn’t have a happy end, that doesn’t make sense. Mother said, “Tell the truth that is agreeable to tell.” And what is agreeable to tell is that this is the history of the period from 2003 to 2013. We are in 2014 and, yes, a lot of people who were in place in this period are still around, are still influential but I think that the movement of the collective consciousness has matured a lot, in such a way that we can handle the situation without animosity, without the reactivity that was the reaction of Guido, Alga and others, because they reacted against the situation with violence. There was violence against the family of Shri Mataji, accusing them of willfully poisoning their Mother, which I had to oppose though I knew since I was 25 that we were going to have problems with Mr. Srivastava. Knowing that, I defended the family after the attacks by Guido and Alga, our Alga who now sees herself as the Messiah for
black Africa and is trying to derail the puja in Benin, it’s all very interesting. Knowing all that I defended the family because the reaction of their detractors was violent, emotional, and that extreme reaction was possible because if you lose your personal dharma you’d lose your hamsa. If you lose your Ganesha you lose your hamsa, if you lose your hamsa you start nailing yourself and that’s what happened to Guido who was a very dear friend of mine, I was in tears.
It’s not that all the old leaders were right because they were with Shri Mataji because I tell you frankly, most of the old leaders who were in my picture book are no longer here. It’s almost like the Spitfire pilots of the Royal Air Force, you have a black cross over most of the names. Being a leader was an exposed business but it also does not mean, as sir CP would have it, that all the people who were with Shri Mataji have to be replaced. This came very naturally to him because those who had received some direct feedback from Shri Mataji had to be removed. By whom? By everybody who is loyal to Sir CP which is really what he tried to do over the last 10 years.
And believe me, he tried very hard with me to et me on his side, you have no clue how hard he tried with me. One day I was sitting on the grass in Vienna, the last time we were in Vienna, it was Krishna puja and I was happy just sitting on the grass period and someone came down to tell me, “Shri Mataji is calling you.” And I was surprised because Shri Mataji hadn’t been calling anyone four years. So I went up and coming out of the bedroom of Shri Mataji was Mr. Srivastava and Sadhana who stood by the door. And then Sir CP started, “Oh, you have to know that I have loved you from the first time I met you.” and later in his talking “ Shri Mataji is the founder of Sahaja Yoga but you are the architect.”
And I was looking at him, I was so sad and I thought: “I can’t believe he thinks that I am that cheap.” That was my reaction – “are we really so dumb, that he thinks that we are so dumb, why did he think that?“
Because he had invited me and all of us to implement his instructions on reverting the gift of the intellectual property (IP) that Shri Mataji, with his own consent, had given to the Sangha here in New Jersey. He invited me in writing to be the vice president of the new, for-profit corporation owner of the IP that he had decided to create. And I told him very respectfully, “Thank you for your confidence but actually it’s not that simple.” And he was working on me because we were going to have the meeting of the World Council in November 2009 in London where we actually said: Shri Mataji publicly gave her intellectual property to the yogis, now Sir CP asks us to give it back. There is this entire issue of signatures that he has extracted from Shri Mataji when her attention was not there, it was a form of violence to Her, some have eyewitnesses this and that is so painful. So we said “okay Sir, respectfully, Shri Mataji gave it to us publicly, we cannot accept a signed instruction from Her, we need to hear from Her verbally and then we’ll be happy to oblige.” That’s all we said, “let us hear it from Her.” Of course we never did also because it was not Her will.
With that, he fired the entire World Council and all of his sycophants went and spread the rumour in the Sangha, bought by all the idiots in this country, that it was a bunch of old, power-hungry leaders. Now again, it doesn’t mean that all the old leaders are right, they are not, they have their own weaknesses, but it doesn’t mean that we don’t benefit from each other’s strengths. If there are new people, then we welcome the dynamics because we need the energy, but if there are ancient people or elders, let us be open, let us respect them because then we’ll get their experience, their wisdom, we’ll get sound advice, and the marriage of energy and experience will make for a very powerful community. But if you break violently from one generation to the other there is no wisdom: you have disgruntled old people who are no more capable of giving what they have to give and you have a lot of young people, including the yuvas who no longer have sound guidance.
You can see today the results of his tenure, and I, in the interest of time, will not go into great detail. For instance if you want to understand what’s happened in Australia you have to listen to Shri Mataji’s talk ,1988 I think, in Sangli: at the end of that tape….( it’s a very embarrassing tape, because basically she Speaks how, when we go to the toilet, we don’t wash our hands. And how the hands of the people stink around Her. At the time, I didn’t know where to look, but basically she was inviting people to wash themselves with water.) Few people go to the end of this tape because it’s really humiliating but at the end She speaks about Australia and she says that the main problem of Australia is that you have a few dominating people and all the rest are only ready to follow them.
And that is exactly what has happened because the Australians have enacted regulations for everybody at the time of Sir CP, that everybody has to rotate automatically every three years, which is an imbecility and I’ll tell you why, but then, they don’t rotate, they managed to be trustees for life, they control all the properties and infrastructure. We are told there was an account for all the cash donations of the Australian collective to Shri Mataji; that account was siphoned away by one of those guys in the leadership. No one knows where the money is. No one knows, so I don’t tell you that I know!
Okay, there is no transparency. In the same way, in ISPS parents are asked to increase the fees to the school but for those who have an eye on the a accounts of the school, we are told there is a $700,000 surplus that they have, some in one account, some in another. But the parents have to increase their school fees, and you don’t even know who’s in charge of the school because they won’t even tell you who is on the board or who owns the facility. But we know who is on the board, there is Munish Pandey, there is Hari Gaikwad, who managed things for Sir CP and his second daughter, and is it a private school owned by Sadhana with the support of Yogi Mahajan? So if all yogis are hush, hush, hush, hush and don’t dare to speak openly about these things, then, like everybody else, you have the leadership you deserve.
And the test before us sounds like this: “they are my children, when I give them all this, are they just going to run to give it to Mr. Srivastava, or are they going to stand as my children and defend what I gave them?“ That was the situation for the last 10 years.
Some people were so disgusted that they left so how Sahaja Yoga. This is the case of Manoj Kumar, this is the case of David Spiro but it was their mistake. Because if you walk out of the collective you punish yourself. No matter how you’ve been treated, the relationship to the collective is vital, that much intelligence dear Manoj should have kept. And it’s not true that he was let down because we stood up for him. When I stood for my American brothers, Sir CP wouldn’t adjust one thing. I lost all my credit card’s reward points with him when I expressed my solidarity with my American brothers, who would never have done the same thing for me and I know this is true. So no complaints please from America on that account. But this all happened and Paul was very much hurt because he was the lawyer, and as a lawyer he was accused by Mr. Srivastava, whom he’d served as a son and that was his mistake. He was falsely accused of fraudulent conspiracy, and he’s a honest lawyer and that happened! That sir behaved in this terrible way, fabricating these false charges, was so huge that no one could believe us in those days if we would have exposed the matter; that’s why we didn’t want to unnecessarily upset the collective. But we did not give in.
Now I insist, the solution, and that is the test, is not to have gone the way Alga and Guido went, which is an emotional reaction. You face injustice, you face a legacy of Shri Mataji in danger, and then what do you do? You take the sword, and that is exactly what Peter did in the garden of Gethsemane.
And by the way that’s the reason Majid got upset with me because he felt, as an Oriental man, that I had to take the leadership of Sahaja Yoga, and I will not, I will never take the leadership of Sahaja Yoga because it it is an imbecility. If I would indulge into this temptation it would show that I had not understood Sahaja Yoga because Shri Mataji said very clearly, “how could Christ have given all the power to Peter? He never said so. This part of the Bible is a falsification, I will never make such a mistake.” At the puja in Magliano.
So, I knew that collective leadership is not a desire of Sir CP Srivastava, it is a desire of Shri Mataji.
She used leaders individually, and I know because I am the first one internationally, I was the first world leader, when She was there, when She controlled them, She watched them. That control is no longer there. She removed them when needed during the period of control in Her physical presence. Now in Her Sakar form, this control is no longer there. Therefore we have to adjust and collective leadership is what Shri Mataji wants. Collective leadership doesn’t mean we don’t respect elders, it doesn’t mean that we elect, represent or delegate, like at the United Nations. They are such sweet idiots trying to rule Sahaja Yoga with rules.
Yes, I am in favor of rotation, why? Because rotation shows the vitality of a community, it shows that the community doesn’t depend on specific individuals and that’s why Arneau and I withdrew from the World Foundation to allow the Sir CPists also to withdraw, to leave space for the others but lo and behold, they stayed. In the same way, I intend to quit the Central Committee because it doesn’t do anything for my CV (laughs) and because I want to send a signal about what is important in Sahaja Yoga. What is important in Sahaja Yoga is not identification with position which is a very real danger. What’s going on in India now is a lot of externalization by Indians conscious of hierarchies and alignments between strongmen here and there, and this alignment is along the fault line created by the family because as you know now there is legal litigation between the two daughters of Shri Mataji over an estate succession issue.
The reason I say this thing is to illustrate that the situation of the last 10 years is no longer here. In the last 10 years we had to resist the family encroachment in telling the yogis, “please be careful“. But we don’t need to do that now for some members of the family has started exposing others. If it was indeed the Holy Family, a Holy Family does not behave in that manner.
In my own family lost my entire inheritance, Catherine also, almost, and believe me my grandfather was the owner and CEO of a steel factory at the time of World War II. At that time the steel business was worth a lot of money, and there was a lot of money on my mother’s side. My father’s side owned a lot of land and all that. We lost all that because I could’ve made a little compromise, I could’ve told my father, “you know this Sahaja, don’t worry, I know what the faith of my ancestors is”. In half an hour, I would’ve got my inheritance. I didn’t do it because it was below me. It costed me millions. I didn’t even notice it because we are children of the Mother but how am I supposed to feel when I see the daughters of Shri Mataji fighting for their inheritance? And I am sorry but Anand is part of that.
So wake up, this is the reality. But we do not judge them, no, nor do we have any animosity because they are instruments in testing our capacity to be our own gurus. And we need to look not at how they pass the tests Shri Mataji has placed on them but at how we will pass our tests. Sir CP, Sadhana, Kalpana. God bless them. They have their own relationship with Shri Mataji.
We should no try to explain or comment this relationship because it is not our business and what can we understand about being the human relative of a Divine incarnation. Is it that simple? ? For instance, the father of Shri Ram had wanted in a past life Shri Vishnu to be his son. He had asked this to Vishnu as a boon, “let You be born as my son” and he died out of grief because he sent Shri Ram in the forest.
Being in a family of an incarnation is not always the thing. There are lives, like in the family of the prophet Mohammed, when they were deities. The question is, aren’t the family of Shri Mataji deities? Because out of Australia you have this hullabaloo thing that Sir CP is Shiva. This is not true. One day I came to Shri Mataji in Delhi who was sitting on a bed and She was looking very far and she told me, “I am very lonely here, my companion is far away.” And I knew she was speaking about Shri Sada Shiva.
One day she told Arneau and me in Athens: “Mr. Srivastava will one day almost destroy Sahaja Yoga.” And that happened over the last 10 years.
And why didn’t I go and shout this to the collective? Because I would’ve been rejected. You shoot the messenger when the message is of this type. I had to handle this with a bit of hamsa. Not only that, but I know who Sir CP is, which I don’t need to tell you in this meeting. And he is not the incarnation that some Australians pretend he is because the Australians came to prominence in the management of Sahaja Yoga through the blessings of Sir CP. Never Shri Mataji gave these positions to all these people when She was active. It’s like Alga. Alga was the lady-in-waiting of Shri Mataji. We all loved her for her service to Shri Mataji, which was an honour for her, but in those years Shri Mataji never made her leader.
Now, the last thing, if some people come and tell you, “Shri Mataji said this, Shri Mataji “ said that, don’t believe them because what is important is only what you know, so use this. I swear to you that for me what I’ve said is the truth but you don’t need to take it, just hear it, it’s an information.
What I wanted to tell you, and then I’m done, is the way Shri Mataji prepared me for this test. I had in my career, many instances where people told me I was a “born leader” but I had to pierce this myth also through my job. Let me tell you a story. In my profession I could’ve gone a little bit higher and my country was willing to sponsor me. In my last step, I was acting ASG (Assistant Secretary General) and I was hesitating to engage in a high level world candidacy campaign because of the rubbish about Sahaja Yoga on the Internet. I was thinking “if my country sends ambassadors to 192 countries advocating Mr. de Kalbermatten for this post and any candidate of rival countries googles me and find some of what is written on Sahaja Yoga, it will embarrass my country.“ One day in the salon of the castle, I was basically telling this to Shri Mataji and She observed; “ Gregoire since when are you so shy? I always told you are the daredevil.” It put me in a mood: I teased Sir CP seating next to Shri Mataji, as I said: ”Shri Mataji, I would be ASG and this will be just one step under Mr. Srivastava, I will always be just one step under Mr. Srivastava.” I was in a naughty mood and Sir CP was sitting next to her. And then there was on a furniture this photograph where Sir CP was fishing in Rannoch in Scotland. I had been there with them and I reminded Shri Mataji that She had said, ”Sir CP will not catch any fish, I am protecting them! “At this moment Shri Mataji looked at me very seriously and said, “But Grégoire, I never eat fish. “ Which, of course, is not true but She is like of course… Mahamaya… We had our moments…
I had a number of interactions with Sir CP and what you have to understand is this. For me it was never a temptation to bow to him because resisting this was planted in my nature. Shri Mataji told me that I was a warrior. Surely the fantasy of being a warrior also has to be given up but it is like this: some people are more this type or more that type; I’m definitely not a businessman, I’m more a Kshatrya than a Vaisha.
Why was I not seduced? For the following reason perhaps but it is very personal. I came to Shri Mataji in Hurst Green, various things happened. And they probably happened because She probably wanted me to have enough confidence in myself. One thing that happened was She showed me a sari and that sari was very humble, among all the beautiful saris she was showing me, silk, gold etc. She asked me which one I preferred and I said “this one”. She said, with a sweet smile “Aha you say this because it is a sari from Maharashtra.” I was completely stunned by the vibrations. And then she explained to me that I had been the younger brother of Shivaji but I died at the age of eight. And She told me the mother of Shivaji was an Anchavatar of the Adi Shakti so I had been her son at that time, when she was the mother of Shivaji. This is the truth, this is what Shri Mataji told me.
You know it made me feel good that I had spent nine months within Her, a bit longer outside of Her also but it was not a significant life because I died at the age of eight. And then another thing She told me on the same stage, “Don’t you remember you looked after Me when I was the Virgin Mary?” When She was telling me that I was with Christ, I had the fear of having been Peter because of his desire to defend Christ in the garden of Gethesmani, a reaction I quite understood. But Peter did not look after the Virgin Mary, they were other Apostles and in the Apocrypha Gospels they mention who had been looking after the Virgin Mary but I never tried to know who I was because again, it’s irrelevant and meaningless. Whether you are Tom, Dick or Marry or John, James or Peter – and I knew I wasn’t John the preferred disciple because John was Anand Damle who died – it does not matter. What counts is what you are today.
Then why did She tell me all this? Because the moment was to come where I would face this situation with this programming that I’d got from Her: a) knowing that I had been with Christ, b) having had the fear of being Peter.
Indeed I was faced with this situation whether I draw the sword or not, because of the rebellion of Guido and Massimo told me when I arrived in Cabella at this fateful Adi Shakti puja, “if you come with us, we are invincible”. I had to make a choice and a call. I knew that CP was wrong and still I didn’t come in with them because they were extreme and joining them would have been the equivalent of trying to be the savior of Shri Mataji, which is what Peter wanted to do, he wanted to save Christ. What did Christ do? Peter had cut the ear off the servant of Caiaphas and Christ picked it up, put it back and said, “Those who live by the sword will die by the sword.” And then he said,” Before the cock crows twice, thou shalt deny me thrice.” And I felt so sorry for Peter, even as a kid I felt sorry for him because he just wanted to help his master. But why did he fail? Because he was out of the plan, he was disconnected from the divine plan. Because if it was the divine plan that this had to happen, it had to happen.
In this entire drama of those 10 years I have tried to maintain my connectivity, and, I’m saying, with more or less success. But that’s for God to judge and for me to appreciate. I don’t feel completely disconnected I must confess but I think my connection could be better. Such was my focus and not to play a role or another one. And I think that this sort of test is for all of us, also when we have leadership positions and so on and so forth.
We were not prepared when She gave us our realization therefore we were to be tested.
She was always wondering what would happen when She would leave because that’s where all the world’s religions went wrong…
and therefore She withdrew 10 years before She left us because She could watch, in silence, all these perversions, externalism and fundamentalism come into Sahaj under Her watch so that we, in the collective consciousness, could start developing our immune system.
So the response is with the immune system of the collective and that doesn’t mean we need to do anything, it doesn’t mean we need to agitate on the Web as some people have done, or attack anyone on the Web, not at all.
With our consciousness, with our devotion, with our prayers to Shri Mataji, knowing what to pray for, knowing what to examine in ourselves, that’s where we work and when we achieve that, things start working out outside. With that assumption, I think that we are moving out of this period of testing, there will be more but with that we are growing which is the most important thing because when Mother left us, we were still toddlers and toddlers have to grow and without those difficulties toddlers don’t grow.
I wanted to give you a sense of what has happened these 10 years which were extremely painful. I’m sorry that Paul (Ellis) is not here because he was one of the first victims of it, but poor thing, he has his father who is not well.
And voila, for those of us who’ve been around for some time, we are in the comfortable position that we don’t need to go on with this. It’s a relay race, it’s not a marathon and I am just happy to pass the baton on to someone who will show up and it’s not in my fantasies to run on this track forever.
Thanks a lot for your attention, if you have one or two questions I’m happy to try to answer them.