Public Program. City Hall, Brisbane (Australia), 5 May 1987.

I bow to all the seekers of truth.

Just now, Albert has very clearly described to you the mechanism that is within us which works out our Self-Realisation. There is a mechanism, no doubt. When we are in this room, we see so many lights and there is a mechanism behind this. But what we do is to just switch on and the lights are there. So the whole mechanism is already built within us through our evolutionary process. Now we have reached at a point when we have to achieve the result of the evolutionary process.

In the West, people had the quest to find out outside this body. I would say that they tried to find out the knowledge about the Tree of Life, but when the life is found out from outside, you can go up to a point, and the tree can also grow up to a point. You have to go to your roots. This is the knowledge of our roots. Now to say that it comes from India or it comes from a particular region is not true. India, being an ancient country of course, they have been able to go deep into it, but even in the Bible you get sentences like: ‘I will appear before you like tongues of flames,’ and these centres really looks like tongues of flames. Then in the Quran also, it is there called as ‘Asas’, the Kundalini, and it is described that you have to be connected with God, otherwise whatever you do in the name of God you’ll become cruel and you will be disintegrated. It’s clearly said. Same thing, in any religion that you read that, you have to have your Self-Realisation.

Every religion has talked of the Spirit. Every religion has said that you must find out your Spirit. Now, when we are ignorant about the Spirit − and there are so many people in the market which I say as a ‘guru shopping’ going on − people don’t know what to expect and what to find. What is self, what is Spirit, and why should we get it? As I said, it is the epitome of our evolution that you have to become the Spirit and that is the truth that, you are the Spirit. If you are the Spirit, then you have to achieve that state, by this way or that way, that is your birthright − is born with you, that’s why we call it Sahaja Yoga. Sahaja means, ‘saha’ is with, ‘ja’ is born with you. That is the yoga, the union with the Divine.

The Divine is the all-pervading Power of God’s love, which is the subtle of subtler: all-pervading. It exists in everything and you have to feel it. That’s what we call as the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost: cool breeze of the Holy Ghost. In the Bible, there’s no description of Holy Ghost. This Kundalini is the reflection of that Holy Ghost. Holy Ghost is the desire of God, that’s the Power of God reflected within us as Holy Ghost, as Kundalini, in three-and-a-half coils: is our pure desire. All other desires that we have are impure because we have been desiring for this and that, you know economic laws are such that in general wants are not satiable. Why? Because those wants are not pure. So this is the power of Kundalini, which resides in the triangular bone within yourself.

Now, when I am telling all this to you, you should not have a blind faith about it, but it’s a hypothesis. If you are a scientific person or if you have a very logical mind, then you must understand that you should not close your mind. You should be with an open mind and see for yourself if this proves, then it’s all right. But you should not be a person who is cynical, who is already challenging Me, because what I am doing is to give you what you have, is to tell you what you have, which is your property, it’s your own. I am nothing to do with it as such, but I can’t also help it without telling you.

This Kundalini has to rise from its seat, which he has shown just now, which is residing in the triangular bone, called as sacrum. Sacrum itself means sacred, that means the Greeks knew about this word, knew about Kundalini, that’s why they called it sacred. Now when this Kundalini rises through these various centres, She passes through six centres; the seventh centre is below Her, and this seventh centre looks after the glory, or the chastity, or we can say protects the Mother Kundalini within us. Now the first centre is the most important centre, and the first centre is the centre of our innocence. When we try to play with our innocence, this centre gets spoilt which has to protect the Kundalini, and when this centre is spoilt we can get into lots of problems.

Nowadays you can hear a big cry about this killer’s disease, Aids: we have to fight it; it’s a wrong thing that we have done, one thing we must accept. And then we have to fight it; it’s not difficult to fight this disease if you accept that you have lost your innocence. The trouble is, when people started getting the knowledge of the tree, they really went amok. They didn’t know what to do with themselves − now they have finished with this, they have finished with that, so now eat your nose or eat your eyes or eat your teeth, something like that; a maddening wave rushed into people and they didn’t know what to do with themselves so they started practicing also sex. I would also blame Freud for that. In India Freud won’t be accepted at all; it’s nonsense. Nobody can accept his theory where they say that you have all the time feelings of carnal love for your mother. Of course, this is ridiculous for us. But anything new has to be accepted: that’s the modern idea. Anything new that comes to you, we must accept. Anything new may not be all right.

The other day we were having a banquet and I had a neighbour who was Ambassador from Mexico and he told Me that, ‘I know you don’t like Freud and You like Jung, but Jung talked of the same old thing.’ I said, ‘Same old thing, but something new about it.’ Evolution takes place in that manner that, first you have the tree and then you have the branches, then you have the leaves and then you have the flowers and then the flowers have the fruits. But if somebody just takes out a flower from somewhere and gives you, then you know that it’s plastic. It must have some basis; it must have some tradition. It must be in our ancient books. It should be described by people who have lived before. Suddenly if Mr. Freud comes along and says some new theory, it’s like mushrooms. These people come up and start telling stories and we believe in them. It’s a fungus. Now, so I told the gentleman, I said, ‘All right, we have eaten all kinds of food before. We haven’t eaten the table: why not we eat that, because it’s new?’ In the same way, everything that is new we started accepting because: ‘this is new, this is a new idea, we should get to it,’ and it’s a mad race, I tell you, it’s a real mad race. All our attention goes to all these mad things. For example, now the fashions that have started. These are entrepreneurs who are materialists, who want to befool us, all the time changing one fashion to another to another.

Now in England you won’t find anybody with any hair now left, because poor things they tried with this, that, and that, lastly they came to punks and when I said, ‘Now to punks, then what?’ they said, ‘Mother, You are out of date, now it is all bald heads.’ This is what is, we are giving up all our sense, all our thoughts to somebody who is making us play like this. Materialism is for us, we are not for materialism. Matter is for us; we have to dominate this matter. All the time the Spirit is dominating the matter, and when the Spirit comes up, then it uses matter for its own purpose. It is not dominated by matter; nobody can dominate a person who is the Spirit. But we are so much lost into it, trying new things like mad, jumping from one to another that we don’t see the sense in it, just like eating the table. We haven’t got our own ideas; we are reactionaries or we accept ideas that are others. If somebody tells us some ideas, we say, ‘Oh, it is great.’ But why, why it is great? It must be tallied by few things.

First of all we must find out, does it have any relationship to any tradition, to any ancient books, to any prophets, to any incarnations who came on this earth? They were not all useless people, they were not false people, they were not telling us lies. But we are reactionaries, like we find now Christianity has failed, the churches are failing, so we react. No, Christianity may fail but Christ doesn’t fail. Like yesterday we had a very interesting couple of people, one of them came for My interview and another one was a photographer. The photographer is an ardent Christian, so he said, ‘Do You mean to say, Mother, we got everything wrong?’ I said, ‘No. You love Christ, isn’t it?’ ‘Yes, I love Christ very much.’ I said, ‘Then, you’ll get it. If you have loved Christ, then you will get it.’ But if you are busy with the organising of Christ, then rather difficult. You can’t organise Christ. You cannot dictate Him and you cannot use Him for your purposes for making money, for making huge big palaces for yourself.

As you can see what’s happening now in the Vatican − big problems there are with the Mafia, and they don’t want to hear it. No, nothing, they don’t want to hear about it. How could these people talking of righteousness, of virtue, of values, have gone to that limit? Same in India, Hindu religion has gone to dogs, absolutely to dogs. They’re using the same black magic, the same old things which were done in Indian villages. They have come to the cities now. In the temples now, they are selling drugs which are of horrible nature to people who come there. Is that Hinduism? What about Islam? You see Islamic people, how they are quarrelling among themselves when Islam is surrender. They are all fighting among themselves. Is that the religion which Mohammed-Sahib preached? What about Buddhists? They are another nonsensical people: extremely materialistic. Every religion has gone to dogs. Why? Because they did not understand the main point, and the main point is you should be connected with God. You are to be born again. It’s not just to give a certificate to yourself: ‘I’m a born-again’ going about: ‘I’m a born-again.’ One lady from that came actually to beat Me. I started laughing at her. This born-again lady has come to beat Me, for what? You cannot certify yourself. This self-certificate or certificate from somebody is absurd. You have to have the powers of being born-again. The born-again have powers of their own manifesting, they are not just born-again going around.

Now what are the powers of a person who is born again? First of all, such a person is a tranquil, peaceful person; he becomes automatically righteous, automatically. I don’t have to tell you, ‘Don’t do this and don’t do that.’ That’s finished now with Moses. No more of that. As soon as you become the Spirit, you just give up all those things that are destructive for us, automatically. No pressures are needed, no warning is needed, nothing of the kind, automatically, because the Spirit is the light, you get your enlightenment. Supposing I am holding a snake in My hand, and it’s not light. Somebody tells Me it’s a snake, I’ll say, ‘No, it’s a rope, I am holding on to a rope.’ But when there is light, I just drop it. In a simple way, nobody has to tell Me, I see the light and it drops out. In the same way, you are an enlightened person. You can make out what is truth and what is untruth.

For example, you see someone, even from Indian jails, some people who have just come out of jails, they don’t know what to do with themselves. So they walk out with saffron clothes to Germany, maybe to Australia also, and they become great babajis here. Now these great babajis sit on some of the important places in the city and everybody is surrounding them: giving them money, giving them their lives, you see, all big talk of love going on and everything. Is he a realised soul or not? How will you find out? You don’t know whether he’s a realised soul or not because you are not at an absolute point. You are still in a relative understanding. Because this person is wearing this kind of a dress, is sitting very quietly there, so he must be a babaji. You cannot recognise a person, whether a person is true or not. You can’t recognise Me, either, whether I am telling you the truth or not. Unless and until you become that absolute being, you cannot make it out.

Then what happens that, when the Kundalini rises and pierces through your fontanel bone area, then you also start feeling on your fingertips − these fingertips are nothing but the sympathetic nervous system centres, which are indicative of the truth. If the person has got cool wind or cool breeze coming from that person, then he is a real one. If he doesn’t have, then he is not. There are many persons who claim to be great, but they are not − ultimately we find out and we are shocked the way they are. We don’t know, how is it our brain has failed, how is it our brilliance did not show clearly what was wrong with this gentleman? Because we are not that. We have to accept humbly that we are still at a human awareness and we have to be at a spiritual awareness. That’s the dimension we have to get, otherwise we cannot judge things properly.

In this country, now we have certain problems; in this whole world we have problems − problems of atom bomb, every day you are hearing about this problem and that problem – all created by human beings. Imagine, intelligent, such good people have created problems for themselves: killing each other, preparing bombs and things like that; protecting each other − I mean, no animal does that. Only human beings are trying to protect themselves from each other. They’re all the time worried who is going to attack them; not sure of themselves. The reason is they haven’t reached that state of absoluteness. The time has come now, the time has come for you either to take to constructive working out of the problem, or the destructive. By discussions, by arguments, by anything, you are not going to achieve anything unless and until there’s a complete transformation in the human mind. And transformation is only possible when you become the Spirit, because Spirit is the universal being within you. And you become collectively conscious − means, you start universally feeling; you just start feeling another person on your fingertips. And if you know how to correct it, you have corrected that person. This is only the play of love of God; it’s so simple, even children can do it. Many children, when they put their fingers in their mouth or their thumbs in their mouth – according to Mr. Freud it’s something nonsense, but according to us, they are suggesting what centres you are catching.

To understand your own children, you have to be a realised soul because the understanding is still not matured. Unless and until you become a realised soul, you are not a mature personality to judge anything. At that level, whatever you judge will have another point of view. You can take ten small children who are realised souls − we have many like that − and tie up their eyes. Now ask them, ‘What’s the wrong with this particular person?’ They will all raise one finger meaning this, or this finger. If this finger, means that person feels guilty for nothing at all – is the Vishuddhi on the left-hand side – or the right, means he talks too much and he has problems here.

This knowledge becomes your own. This is one of the powers I have described to you that, you feel the collective consciousness within yourself. Whatever you achieve in your evolution is a living process. It is not a dead process, it’s a living process by which your central nervous system can feel what is around you, what is within you. What you call the parasympathetic nervous system gets activated, and you can understand the parasympathetic while, if there are any doctors they will tell you that they don’t know much about parasympathetic. Now all these things happen to you and even if you are a child, you can manage the show.

The second power you get is that you can raise the Kundalini of another person, like one enlightened light can enlighten another person. But we cannot deal with people who are nasty, who are superficial, who are stupid – not meant for them. It is meant for people who are seekers, who are intense: they are the chosen ones and they are called as ‘seekers’ nowadays. They might be drug addicts, or they might be anything − doesn’t matter. They have been truly seeking; they have taken something wrong as right or they might have done some mistakes − doesn’t matter. Everything is forgiven. They will get what they want because they have been intensely seeking, truly wanting to be the Spirit. This is the pure desire of the person that works out, not a person who is just wanting it for the sake of some sort of a selfish or some sort of a power-oriented ideas.

Now the third power one gets is this, that a person becomes absolutely dynamic. He works very hard in [unclear/all of his] time; he can do things which he has never done before. I know of somebody who has never done anything artistic, suddenly he started painting. I know another one who has never known what is poetry because he’s a chartered accountant; he has been dealing with money all the time. Suddenly he started writing poetry, that too in Urdu language which is such a difficult thing. Such dynamism one develops. Apart from that, you develop a special feeling of oneness with others who are realised souls. Friendship and fraternity are such a rare quality that you have never seen such people; even those people who go to fight in the war and all that, they don’t have that love and that pure understanding and pure relationship that you find among the people who are realised  souls.

There was a girl who had realisation and she went to Sicily. Another one was a diplomat, she had her realisation from Rome; she went to Sicily. And they were sitting in two corners of one restaurant and they looked at each other and they felt the vibrations and one got up from there and she asked her, ‘Do you feel cool breeze in your hands?’ She said, ‘Have you got realisation from Shri Mataji?’ She said, ‘Yes, I’ve got it!’ and they just hugged each other. And they were so very happy, they said, ‘Mother, such happiness and joy we have never felt with anyone.’ Such security, such help. Anywhere in the world you go, they are with you, your brothers and sisters in purity: they don’t want anything − without any lust, without any greed, just feeling of oneness.

Such a race has come up now in Australia – thank God, we have so many ashrams and we have so many people and Australia is growing very fast. Australians basically are in the land of innocence itself. The deity of innocence is your Uluru, which stands there and the people of Australia I have found, have a special blessing of God that they get realisation very fast, they keep it up and they grow very fast. We have other people also, I must say, that Italians and also the people from Austria. They are doing very well. I would say that English are very good because – but you have to work hard with them. If you work hard with them they can come up well, so from all over the world, from fourteen nations now, we have people coming to Sahaja Yoga.

You don’t have to pay anything: how can you pay? I mean, you think of one thing, it’s ridiculous again that people think that you can pay for everything. Now, if you have to say, sprout a seed, how much will you pay to the Mother Earth? How much money will She take for that kind of a thing? This is one thing people don’t understand − anybody who asks for money, anybody who lives on the money earned in the name of God cannot be connected with God. You cannot earn your living in the name of God, you cannot. Is a simple thing, it’s sinful. Of course, now, they have said, they have told Me that when I travel, people have to spend money. I mean, I can spend myself, I – by God’s grace I am all right, but supposing I was in the condition of Christ, then people would have paid for this air travel ; it’s all right, doesn’t matter, He need not pay for your salvation. Air travel you can pay, it’s all right, but He doesn’t need anything, does He? In the same way, I don’t need anything. What I need is to see that many people get their realisation, then they become their Spirit. By God’s grace it is working out very well in Australia. Australia, surprisingly has worked out so well and I am sure that these things will work out today also here in Brisbane. 

The another good thing about Sahaja Yoga is that you settle down with good marriages. We have had seventy-one marriages last year and out of them, hundred percent they are successful and they have beautiful children, very beautiful children, and very sweet lives they are leading together. It is surprising how, from the muck of that nonsense that was there, the ideas of destroying the whole humanity, how these beautiful lotuses have come out. When I see that, I forget that there are so many more have to come out of it. It has to work out. There are so many who can receive it and become the lotus flowers to make the whole universe fragrant. It’s a work of few years more I think, I am sure lots of people will get realisation, but those who do not want, those who are adamant, those who do not want to have the blessings of God, will be judged because this is the Day of Judgment. I hope today most of you will get your realisation.

I would like some of you to ask Me questions, but ask relevant questions and not just questions to attack Me because I have not come here for an election or anything. Just simple questions. [Mother asks for some water] Can you get Me some water? So many speeches, morning till evening. Yes, please?

Question: [All questions were paraphrased by yogi in the room] Is it possible that those who teach about the Spirit differ on different points?

Shri Mataji: In the beginning they do, little bit, still they are not settled down, you see. They have to mature in Sahaja Yoga, no doubt, but in the beginning they do little bit differ but not much. In the beginning they do little bit sometimes differ, that I have seen, because one has to mature first of all. Once they are mature, they don’t. They are very much in unison with each other. There’s no difference at all.

Question: Do you have to sit in any special posture when you are doing this or can it be done at any time, in any form?

Shri Mataji: No. You see, in this Sahaja Yoga, you become the Spirit, then you don’t have to meditate much − about ten minutes or so is sufficient − and there’s nothing much particular restriction or anything in it; you can sit in any pose you like, there is no restriction of any kind because you become the Spirit. Only thing is you have to get into thoughtless awareness, that’s the first state is, which we call as Nirvichara and for that state to achieve, you see, you have to sit down just and refuse to take any thoughts in your mind. Just say, ‘Not this, not this,’ so suddenly, because your Kundalini is there already up there, so you become thoughtlessly aware. Once you become thoughtlessly aware, you can stay like that for about five minutes or so − just that’s all. It’s not much time is needed because you are ‘in’ meditation.

Question: He says that from his previous experience, he finds that it is not possible to have a moment or so where there is no thought.

Shri Mataji: It’s true, you cannot till the Kundalini is awakened, you can’t have. You see, one thought arises and falls, another thought rises and falls; there’s a little space in between which we call in Sanskrit as vilambha, very little spaces. Now what happened with Kundalini awakening, both these thoughts become elongated and this vilambha increases. So you will automatically have that, you won’t have to worry about that.

Question: Is the Kundalini awakening good for the children?

Shri Mataji: Excellent. They are the best. Children are the best − I mean, they have no complications, you see. We are complicated, we are on the left side or the right side, we have complications. They are such balanced things, they are the best. Children are the best − the more the merrier! I told them to bring all the children here and I would have been so happy in their company. They may be − most of them − may be already born realised, you can’t say.

Question: What is the sensitivity of the children? If they are sensitive, how would the children be guarded against being hurt by others?

Shri Mataji: Oh, they know themselves, they are very clever, and they are to be told how to take a guarding thing around their body and all that, and they do it. They are very sweet, even little, little things they do with their hands, raising of their Kundalini, very sweetly, and they put immediately – as  soon as they see a horrid man  they just start doing like that, they are very active. Must say, they are very good.

Question: Would that be like teaching them to put a golden light?

Shri Mataji: Yes, what we call as bandhan, is means that it’s a kind of a protective thing to your auras. You see, you put with your own hands, because the vibrations start flowing from your hand, then you just give it a bandhan, and the children do it immediately, they do it immediately. They’re very quick. They are tremendous. They are the ones who protect. One father wanted to have his realisation, couldn’t reach, so he just got so frustrated, came on to My Feet, so this fellow came on My Feet but his child jumped on his back and he started using him as a slide to take his Kundalini [up first/upwards.] It was so interesting the way children react.

Question: How did You begin this? How were You initiated in this?

Shri Mataji: I was not initiated; I had this from My very childhood. You see, I know you would like to know about Me, but it’s better first you know yourself, then you’ll know about Me better. All right?

Question: She’s asked if you would leave the present plane of consciousness just by getting to the realisation. She said that she has come here to learn, but it shouldn’t happen that you lose your present plane of consciousness. Is that the question?

Shri Mataji: No, you don’t lose it. No, no, nothing like that. No, no, nothing like that happens. Actually what happens that you get a additional, new awareness within yourself. You are very much there, very much alert, absolutely aware, but you get an additional awareness which is of the Spirit. You don’t lose anything like that. Say, now, for example, you have a brother. Now you have not very good feelings for him, say, for example. When you get your realisation, you see that he’s a good boy and you forgive him with your heart and you love him and you forget that what was wrong with him. You see the good points about him, because you become absolute. Your judgment differs. You laugh at yourself. What was wrong with him is no more. ‘I was wrong at that time.’ You don’t mind accepting that point: ‘I was wrong, not now, I was.’

Another thing is, supposing you have a particular habit and you can’t get over it, it’s impossible. Even if you want to, you cannot. Now you are so powerful that you don’t look at it. You don’t want to have it anymore. You just don’t like it. I would say this way, that an animal can pass through a dirty lane, it doesn’t feel the dirt or filth or anything, doesn’t smell anything, but a human being cannot. In the same way, the realised soul doesn’t like anything that is wrong. It becomes righteous automatically, virtuous automatically, and he’s not asserting that on anyone. They are virtuous, they are righteous and they live in their own glory. This is how the awareness takes a beautiful turn. Anything else, please?

Question: Do You believe in reincarnation?

Shri Mataji: Yes, of course, there is reincarnation, no doubt about it and when Christ has said, ‘I’ll come again,’ that means there is reincarnation. So, but most important thing, what are you, now? And what you get, now, is the most important. We shouldn’t worry about what we were in last life − what does it matter? Yes, please?

Question: Is your Spirit one with your mental and physical being or is it separate from it?

Shri Mataji: It enlightens all that. Now can you say that this light that is enlightening us, is it one with us or without us? You see the light is separate, the Spirit is separate from us, no doubt, but it integrates everything. The reason is we see. Now for example, you are sitting in an enlightened way, but supposing you are sitting in the darkness, you’ll be rushing each other, you would not know how you stand with each other, there’s no integration. So the light on the physical, mental, emotional side of our life is complete and completely integrated. That’s a good question.

Question: When a person is enlightened, can you give it to someone else?

Shri Mataji: Of course, of course. When you are enlightened, you can enlighten another person: that’s the power you get.

Question: How does it happen?

Shri Mataji: It happens because you become that. Supposing there’s one candle. Now this candle is not enlightened, all right? Now I enlighten this, then with this candle I can enlighten any other candle. So simple as that. [Mother laughs] It is so simple. You see, everything that is divine is simple; everything that is human is complicated. Take it like that. It’s extremely simple.

Question: In your discourse You referred to the Kundalini as ‘She’. Is that because You are a woman?

Shri Mataji: No, no, no; She is the female side, you see. She is the Shakti, She is the female side. That’s why the quarrel about women and men is all falsehood. There’s nothing like that; they exist together. It’s like the moon and the moonlight; it’s like the sun and the sunlight; it’s like the God and the Kundalini; it’s like the word and the meaning.

Question: Is it fair to say that the Kundalini energy arises and meets another energy coming from above?

Shri Mataji: Yes, it is all-pervading Power, all right? Now, when the Kundalini rises, what She does, She enlightens our subtler side of our nerves, our brain and everything, She enlightens and by that we start feeling it. Is the enlightenment that we get because of our connection with the all-pervading Power. It exists, already it exists, but you cannot feel it normally. When She rises, then your nerves are so enlightened that you can feel it. All right? You might be already getting it; I think so. All right, should we have it now? All right, again, one more question.

Question: I’ve heard that there are stories that it is dangerous to arouse the Kundalini. Why are there such stories?

Shri Mataji: The stories are because people who were not authorised have tried to raise the Kundalini. The person who has to raise the Kundalini has to be authorised by the Divine. Such a person must have that pure character. These people just try to raise the Kundalini and the deity on the last chakra’s, what they call the chakra of innocence, is the one which gets annoyed, and that’s how they get into trouble. As I told you, this is the chakra looks after. Those people who are not authorised to do it, or we can say, in a very gross way one can explain this way, that a person who does not know about electricity and puts his fingers into the plug, he gets a shock. But it’s much worse than that. A person who does not have a proper character or a proper life and tries these tricks gets into trouble. Not by the Kundalini but by the deity which is protecting its chastity.

These stories are there, and naturally such people should – they give these sensational stories and people like it, and many people follow them. I mean, it is so dangerous to be following all those wrong things. Now, I must have given this Kundalini awakening to thousands and thousands and thousands of people and nobody had any problem. She’s your Mother, and as your mother has given you birth, taking all your pains herself, She takes up all the pains. She doesn’t give you any trouble at all. At the most you might feel a little tingling or something. Maybe if somebody’s possessed, then he starts a little bit jumping also; if there’s a possessed man, starts a little bit jumping, but so far we didn’t have any funny experiences of that kind. TM people start jumping − I’ve seen that, or people from this black magic, they start jumping before Me. Also these Rastafarians, they started jumping. There’s some people who do that way, but they’re all possessed, they’re not normal people. But they jump for a while; you can bring them round, it’s not so difficult.

Question: What happens to the Spirit after you die on this earth?

Shri Mataji: We’ll talk about it later; it’s a very long subject. You see, the Spirit, when you die, has different diverse type of existence after we die. It depends on − if you are a realised soul, you are a free bird, do what you like. But if you are not then you are different categories, and according to your categories you live and exist, but I think that’s a very long subject, and some other time I’ll let you know about it, all right? Yes?

Question: I don’t know why I am so reluctant to be enlightened.

Shri Mataji: Firstly, you have a liver problem, sir, and a lot of heat in the body. If you put your left hand on here the heat will come down − no, no, left hand on the right side, you have a lot of heat, and the reluctance is there. The liver is the horrid stuff, you see, that makes all the problems. Put your right hand like this, and… Liver makes you think, think, think, think all the time. Anything else?

Question: What makes for suffering and misery in this world and why do people cheat each other? [Seeker adds: Why do I feel such distress and sorrow at that cruelty and suffering around me?]

Shri Mataji: This is good, but you should see this is human beings treating each other like that, isn’t it? What to do? That’s the question I ask you. You see, all this stupidity, why is it there? It is there because they are not the Spirit as yet. They need transformation; all of them need transformation. But supposing tomorrow Hitler comes and asks Me for transformation, I say, ‘I’m sorry, next life we’ll see about it.’ [laughter] Yes?

Question: Is taking out of the stress from other people, do you get it on Your body and does it come in as pain to You?

Shri Mataji: No, nothing. I’m not taking out anything, you see. It’s just a state of mind which becomes enlightened by the Spirit. You just become relaxed, that’s all. It’s in your own doing. Supposing, now, this is ‘on’ and this is ‘off’ [indicating microphones] in the same way, but it is nothing that I have to do about it. See, it’s within you, just works out within you, and the Kundalini itself, when She rises, She relaxes you automatically. So why will it hurt Me?

Question: She was asking would it hurt her if she took on the stresses of other people?

Shri Mataji: No, no. In the beginning I would say you should not do that because in the beginning you don’t know how to do it properly, but after you are mature nothing can happen. You see, like something which is not yet matured can take on the imprints, but once it is matured, it is perfectly all right. First you have to mature yourself. Takes about a month to mature yourself, then it’s all right.

Question: Why did the stressed person become that? Is it because of the chakras being blocked?

Shri Mataji: Yes, very much, very much. Blocked or imbalanced, specially imbalance. Imbalance is very much, because the chakras are like this [demonstrating with Her hands, fingertips together] supposing, all right? Now, if you push it too much this side, there’s an imbalance and these chakras become blocked here. Now this could be on the left side or the right side; any side it can work out. This is due to imbalances.

Question: I have a search for the material and a search for the spiritual, but while I am young, should I use it for the search for the material or the search for the spiritual?

Shri Mataji: If you get the Spirit you get the material automatically. The whole material is controlled by the Spirit. It’s very surprising how you get it. You enter into the realm of God. You’ll be amazed that in England, there’s such a lot of joblessness − people don’t have jobs at all − unemployment; but not a single Sahaj Yogi is unemployed, not a single Sahaj Yogi is unemployed. The other day, one gentleman was to come from Paris to Australia for a particular seminar, and he thought it was − he wanted to come because this is the other side of the world and all that, got quite excited, but he didn’t have money, and suddenly he got the money which he was to get for eight years. Suddenly he got the money and he’s here. All such miracles work out. From Australia I’ll tell you one miracle, it’s most interesting. There was a little girl, she wrote a letter to Me, ‘Mother, I want to come and see You in India, but I don’t have so much money to come.’ She and her mother, they both wanted to come, and they had a fete in the school, and she had taken a trinket for selling, and when the teacher saw, she said, ‘This is gold.’ She said, ‘Gold?’ ‘Yes, better take it to your mother.’ And when they went to the jeweller, the amount was the same as they would need to go to India. So, in so many ways you are helped. You don’t know, the realm of God is very different; so efficient, works so fast. We haven’t entered into that realm.

Question: These − You’ve talked about the imbalances or blockages in the chakras. How do we become aware of them and how do we correct them?

Shri Mataji: That’s what you’ll have to learn; it’s very simple. You see, once you get your realisation you’ll have to come to our centres and they’ll tell you how to do it. It’s very simple. There are a few methods by which you can just clear them out. But you have to come to our centre, you see. You have to respect your Self-Realisation and you have to little bit pay attention to it, because people, you see, to them is like buying Coca Cola in a bar shop − is not realisation. It’s the epitome of your evolution, is the highest thing and has to be respected that way. They come to My lectures all right, but they don’t try to work out their realisation. You have to work it out and you have to become masters. You have to become your own gurus. All of you can. One more?

Question: When talking about realisation, is it that when you get it you keep it or could you lose it, or just glimpses of it?

Shri Mataji: No, you see, the thing is, if you have realisation you have to look after it, nourish it, and develop it. Just like a little plant. You see, when you have a little plant you have to develop it. Once it becomes a tree, then many come for the shelter under that tree, isn’t it? In the same way you have to look after it. It may not diminish, but it won’t have much effects and it will always be in a dangerous position. The best thing is to make it absolutely matured. It hardly takes any time, any effort, any money. One has to know how to do it.

Question: Why have the churches not told us about this?

Shri Mataji: That was not the time, sir. Imagine, Christ lived for only three and a half years, in the sense that, for His spiritual undertakings, He was allowed only for three and a half years to live like that. Churches do not know it, but even Christ… Imagine, for four years I was struggling with seven English boys and girls to give them realisation. He did quite a good job, I must say, still, but that was not the time. Christ actually came on this chakra − is the Agnya Chakra. That was His time, to show the way of resurrection; that was His life, and that’s what He’s done, but the churches have missed the point. Churches have missed the point, and they will go on missing the point. Because if their main interest is how to make money, is not good. Or how to convert people − is not good.

Question: Are there a lot of holy people in the church?

Shri Mataji: There could be many people who are very simple, who believe in Christ, who go to churches because they believe that they’ll be saved. All of them will be saved, no doubt. They’re very simple people; they give such a lot of money to the church and they give such a dedication to the church, though they are wrongly placed, but they will be saved, no doubt about it. They all have to be saved. But there are people who are just making money out of churches, trying to make an organisation out of it. They are trying to convert people, trying to make a political end out of it; then such a thing won’t work out. That’s not proper. Churches should only deliver the goods of giving realisation to people, that’s what a church is for. They will learn, I’m sure; they will have to become. Some of them will have to become, but if they are money-oriented or power-oriented, I just don’t know. They are more interested in the kings and the prime ministers, princesses and all that. I just don’t understand. They have nothing to do with God.

Question: Why is there a need for judgment, when some people make progress and some don’t progress, and why do others judge that? Why is there a particular time of judgment?

Shri Mataji: It has to be some time, My child, for judgment, and this is a particular time, because, what we call, is the worst time because the Man is so much in confusion. The most difficult time for human beings to exist is modern times, what we call as the Ghor Kali Yuga, and this was the time when it had to happen, otherwise man won’t take to God seriously, perhaps, maybe. Maybe our forefathers didn’t have this stress and strain, and they didn’t want to relax or think of God. They were quite happy with their agricultural work that they were doing, but now it is really we have reached to that point. Everything has to come to its boiling point, and now this is the time for the world to get its results, either this way or that way.

Question: Why is there a time of judgment now, because if there is reincarnation they will keep going back and coming until there is a change?

Shri Mataji: I’ve already told you that this is the time when the people are most confused and they have to take a decision. That’s why this is the judgment time. Either they will go to hell or to heaven, all right? Is that − makes you all right? Good. Heaven is within us.

Now, should we have our realisation?

Now, a very simple thing one has to do, as I said, that you have to a little bit co-operate with Me. If you are adamant or cynical about it, it’s difficult. So I would say, if you want to have your realisation, you have to a little bit co-operate with Me, that’s all. Now, for that, you have to take out your shoes, just you touch the Mother Earth, that’s all, just to touch the Mother Earth. Just take out… It’s all your own and it has to just come up, that’s all.

Now put the feet on the ground, parallel, and sit very comfortably in a straight way. Now, have both the hands straight, just like this. You can keep them on your lap if you feel comfortable. [Aside: What’s that?] Now, I would like you to close your eyes; you can take out your spectacles if you want to but you don’t have to open your eyes. It has a good effect on your eyesight also. Please, remember that the attention has to go inside, and that’s why, if you keep your eyes closed, it will help. Now just keep your eyes closed, your, both the hands towards Me. Now the left hand is the hand that represents our desire and the right hand is the one that represents our action. So now we have to work out with our right hand our own chakras so that later on also, you can raise your Kundalini – your own and others also. It’s very simple, just don’t close the eyes just now, I’ll show you. First of all, I’ll ask you to put your hands on your heart where resides the Spirit. Then you have to – everything we’ll work on the left-hand side. Right hand on the heart. Then you’ll have to put the right hand in the upper part of the stomach. Then you’ll have to put the right hand in the lower part of the stomach. Then you have to go back again in the upper part of the stomach. Then on the heart.

Then you have to go – take your right hand on your shoulder, on the left-hand side and push it backwards. This is a very important point because most of you have problem here, which means that you feel guilty for nothing at all. So in the beginning only you must say in your hearts that you are not guilty. You are not guilty at all! To feel guilty is a wrong thing. Just to push the hand here.

Then you have to take this hand across your forehead. Then you have to take your hand on the back side and push back your head in such a manner that you balance your head, left hand all the time like this. Now, stretch your hand – your fingers – stretch them and put the centre of your hand just on top of the fontanel bone area and press it hard so that you can move the scalp slowly seven times, seven times. No move it, press it hard, press it hard, yes. Now move it seven times. That’s so simple as that.

Now let us do it with our eyes closed. Just keep your eyes closed. It’s very simple. It will work out I’m sure. Keep your eyes closed.

First of all, please put your right hand on your heart. All the time, the left hand is towards Me. Now. Here you have to say, in your heart, with all sincerity, you have to ask Me a question. You have to ask Me a question: ‘Mother, am I the Spirit?’ If you want to call Me ‘Shri Mataji’ you can call that, or you can call Me ‘Mother’, but whichever way you want to call, that’s not important. You have to say: ‘Mother, am I the Spirit?’ Ask the question three times in your heart. This is a very fundamental question. Like a computer, you are asking Me a question.

Now bring the right hand onto the left-hand side of your stomach, in the upper part. Here press it. Now, this is the centre of your mastery, your guidance, your Guru Tattwa as they say. So ask a question: ‘Mother, am I my own master?’ This is a question to be asked three times: ‘Mother, am I my own master?’

Now, bring your right hand down below, in the lower part of the abdomen. Now, this is the centre from which all the divine work is done, all the pure work is done. Now this centre is such that you have to ask Me that: ‘Mother, please give me pure knowledge. Mother, please give me pure knowledge.’ If you do not ask, I cannot force on you. So to ask Me six times, because this centre has got six petals: ‘Mother, please give me pure knowledge.’ This works out all the Divine plans. Six times, you just ask. As a result of this asking, the Kundalini starts getting awakened.

Now to help the Kundalini to rise, you have to co-operate with Her. So please, put your right hand on the left-hand side, in the upper part of your abdomen and press it, on your – is the stomach. Now here, you have to say with full confidence, to help the Kundalini to rise: ‘Mother, I am my own master.’ This you have to say ten times. These are the Ten Commandments which you have to say, that: ‘Mother, I am my own master.’ Now: ten times with full confidence.

Now, please raise your right hand to your heart. Now, here you have to say, again with full confidence: ‘Mother, I am the Spirit.’ This is the truth, you are the Spirit, but you have to say with full confidence: ‘Mother, I am the Spirit.’ This you have to say twelve times.

Now, one has to know that God Almighty is the ocean of love. But above all, He’s the ocean of forgiveness. So He forgives; whatever wrong you do He forgives. So don’t feel guilty and put your right hand across, on the left-hand side, in the corner which is made by your neck and your shoulder. Now here you have to say, again with full confidence, sixteen times: ‘Mother, I am not guilty.’ Please say it: ‘Mother, I am not guilty.’ Sixteen times. ‘I’m not guilty at all.’ Please say it. Please say it. [Aside: Baba, very hot.] 

Now raise your hand across on your forehead. Now, this is the centre of Christ and is a very important centre. Here you have to say from your heart: ‘Mother, I forgive everyone.’ Please say it from your heart. How many times, is not the point: ‘Mother, I forgive everyone.’ You know some would say that is very difficult to forgive. But it’s a myth that we do not forgive or we forgive, we do not do anything in both the cases. But if we don’t forgive, then we play into wrong hands. So please say from your heart: ‘Mother, I forgive everyone.’

Now please take your hand on the Back Agnya, the same centre on the back side of your head, and allow your head to rest on it and push it back a little bit. Now here you have to say, for your satisfaction because you always feel guilty, that: ‘Oh, Divine, if I have done anything wrong, please forgive me.’ Please, forgive me.’ From your heart.

Now to the fontanel bone area, where they say they give baptism, but actually it’s an artificial one. Stretch your hand fully and put your centre of your palm on top of the fontanel bone area, which was a very soft bone in your childhood.

Press it hard, press hard your scalp. Now you have to move it seven times, saying one thing, which you have to ask for: ‘Mother, please, give us my Self-Realisation,’ because I cannot force on you, so you have to ask for it. Seven times, press it hard and move it seven times. Very hard. Slowly, saying that. It’s good. [Shri Mataji blows once into Her hands and eight times into the microphone]

Now, remove the right hand. Slowly open your eyes. Put your right hand towards Me and see on your left hand. Raise it a little higher than your head and see if there’s the cool breeze is coming out of your head. Some people might get it. Put the right hand towards Me please, right hand towards Me. And with the left hand − right hand towards Me − with the left hand. Just see if there’s a cool breeze coming out of your head. Now turn it, put left hand towards Me. See with your right hand. Some people might get hot breeze. It’s all right. But after some time it will become cool.

You can bend your head and see for yourself again with the left hand. Put the right hand towards Me. Now raise your both the hands and ask one question: ‘Is this the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost?’ In your heart, ask the question: ‘Is this the Brahmachaitanya? Is this the all-pervading Power of God, of Islam?’ Ask this question three times, that’s all.

Now, you can feel it in your hands also. Take it down, please take it down. Now those who have felt in their heads – from their heads – or from their hands, please raise your hands, both the hands, those who have felt in their heads. Higher, higher, I would like to see how many of you have got it. Look at that, so many of you. Some of you didn’t do anything, I saw that. So it’s all right. Such a lot. Those who have not got it, please raise your hands.

[Seeker asks an inaudible question] 

Shri Mataji: If you have been going to some other gurus or you have been doing some other kind of yogas or might be there’s some problem on the chakras, you may not get it today. But I am sure you can get it tomorrow. There’s going to be tomorrow a follow-on. I would request all of you to come. Please come tomorrow. Please come tomorrow, get it established, it will work out. Now so many of you who have felt it and you are feeling relaxed also, very much relaxed, aren’t you? Feeling relaxed and happy.

Now this is the power God has implanted in you which you have got it which you must give to others. Now see, I am such an old woman but I am travelling all over the world giving realisation to people. And you should all help Me to give realisation to people in Brisbane at least. See, this is the light you have got it; you have to give it to others. It’s very simple thing it is. You should meet other people – we have a nice centre here, we have a very good leader here, Mister – the one who explained to you everything – and he will tell you everything, all about it. You just have to put little effort into it and be serious about it.

What I find that, in the West when they get realisation, they just do not bother about it. But say, going to church, they’ll go every Sunday. But for Sahaja Yoga, they should also have some time for your realisation. Once established, you’ll be amazed at the kind of rewards you get.

[to a seeker] So you got it? No? Just see, put your hands. No? On your head also?

Seeker: My hands are cold but it’s…

Shri Mataji: Warm, warm is all right because that’s due to liver again. You have to put your right hand on – like this, right hand toward Me and on the liver, yes like that. It’s due to liver, warm is there, you see, it will cool down, it’s cooled down. What about you? You also get the warm? All right, those who get the warm put your right hand towards Me and left hand on your livers. It’s all right, it will get cooled down, it will cool down. No?

Seeker: It feels cool but I’m having [inaudible]

Shri Mataji: Still warm?

Seeker: Warm? Not warm, cold, cool. 

Shri Mataji: Ha. That’s it!

Seeker: That’s the one. 

Shri Mataji: That’s the one. [laughs] Very true. There’s no air conditioning, nothing here. That’s the one now. Now you can feel it on his head also. You can feel on each other’s head. You can find out, he’s got it too. Just show him. Nick, will you please, somebody will.

Lady: Mother?

Shri Mataji: Yes. 

Lady: My hands are [inaudible] 

Shri Mataji: Kya Kare? This is only in one day. Such an achievement I tell you, I’m so very happy. Kya Kare?

Lady: Are my hands supposed to be cold? [Sahaja Yogi repeats question]

Shri Mataji: Yes, of course. Yours are warm?

Lady: No, they’re cold.

Sahaja Yogi: They’re very cold, she said.

Shri Mataji: That’s good, now put them here, [on cheeks] or here on the head, as you like it. Everywhere. He’s got it? [Yogi: Yes.] He’s got it, all right, this gentleman?

Seeker: It’s very subtle, very subtle – not very much.

Shri Mataji: All right, all right, it will develop now but it has started, all right? Have patience with yourself. We have to have patience with ourselves. Ha. Better. Gradually it will grow. It’s a little sapling. [pointing to someone else] She didn’t feel it at all. Now? She’s feeling now? That’s good. Some of you didn’t feel. Are you feeling now? Who didn’t feel? You didn’t feel? [asks Yogis to go and work on seeker] If you can come out a little bit, they will see. 

There’s one gentleman there, one or two gentlemen. Yes, yes. He didn’t feel it? All right, just those who have not felt it, just see… [Shri Mataji watches the audience] These ladies are wonderful; they all have felt it. Now enjoy yourselves, just enjoy! I have to [Shri Mataji blows them a kiss] love you very much, now enjoy is the point! Enjoy, finished! [unclear/ Sold the horses] as they say. No headaches anymore.  

He’s got… he’s got it. He’s got it. This lady may not have. That Indian gentleman didn’t get it, just see that one. Rajesh? [Hindi aside] 

[to another seeker] You got it, sir? Good. Right hand you have? [seeker tries to explain] And left hand? Not feeling it? It’s more strong that side? More strong on the right? Somebody should see him, please. 

So you must develop now, all the young boys. You must work out, all right? It’s a great job for you. What’s it? It’s all right, he’s got it, he’ll have to work it out. Must be the Vishuddhis are… When this centre is not all right, you cannot feel it. What is he saying? [inaudible] Kya Kare? [re previous seeker who was trying to explain his problem] Not on the left. Now, you put your left hand towards Me and right hand on your heart. Be seated, be seated. Please be seated. And now, you have to say: ‘Mother, I am the Spirit,’ just that. [seeker repeats] Yes, in your heart, you can say. Are you feeling now? Ha, it’s better now? [more discussion from seeker] It’s all right, everyone has some peculiarities. It works out. It works out. Everything works out. You have to come to the balance. 

[Yogi announces follow-up program. Shri Mataji speaks aside to him: These two persons came just to write down something: those two. From the church I think.]

Now, I take your leave and I hope, next time when I come, I find big, huge trees grown up, and many people getting realisation from you. May God bless you.