Public Program, 26-03-1974, Mumbai, India.

God’s existence or His non-existence doesn’t depend on whether you trust God or not. However, much I may say that God exists, even if you believe it, it is not going to make any difference. If you do not believe, it is in your ignorance that you do not believe; even if you believe it, it is still in your ignorance. Without getting it – Self Realisation, even believing will be still ignorance; not believing will also be ignorance. So, when I am talking on this subject, you should sit with an open mind like a scientist, like a researcher who doesn’t know anything, who doesn’t have any preconceived ideas, who has not thought of anything in the beginning. I do not know how many books have been written on this subject. It is like a vast ocean. I do not know; how many have written untruths in these books. What is the identity of truth and untruth? The identity of truth is that it is obvious in every circumstance and on any criterion, if that cannot be proven to be a lie, that is truth. 

Whatever discussion I will have with you or whatever I tell you, listening to it like a scientist, means that I am placing before you a hypothesis, a concept. I can prove this to you later and those who are sitting here and are familiar with My work, they know that it is proved. But keep your mind open.  It is very necessary because among you, many have read a lot on this subject. Writing is not difficult. It is very easy if you have some money or some disciples to help you- You can go on writing book after book. And you don’t need to search for the truth. In matters of religion, who is there is to question you, why you have written like this? On religion, anything can be said. A Person like Hitler talked about religion. Napoleon also talked about religion. Because in the matters of religion, no law is there under which they can be caught. If in the name of religion, if someone sells Adharm (wrong doing), is there a law to put him in Jail?

But if you are the worshipper of only truth, and if you want to know only the truth, you should not fully believe whatever I am saying until such time that you see the reality of what I am saying. You are a human and you should stand solid. What someone writes or someone tells you, it should not overly impress you; it is not at all, the characteristic of a human. If someone who stands on the step of freedom and says ‘God, You are not there’, he is a much better person than the paratantra (one who is under the control of others) person says ‘God You are there’. In Sahaja Yoga, we can’t do anything about a paratantra person. Yesterday I told you the same thing that in Sahaja Yoga, your innocence is very necessary, but freedom is essential. That is why I want you to sit with full freedom. Don’t say yes to what I say. Don’t say no to what I say and don’t accept what I say, till you get it.

You can’t know what I am saying until you get your Self-Realisation. You can’t understand what I am saying. Just like, without having your connection, dialing a phone makes no sense. When someone wants to know about religion, he should have in the least his Realisation. Before that, a human is not eligible to know about religion. Like they used to say only a Brahman can know about the religion. Brahman meant a Realised person. But everyone cannot be a Brahman.
I told you that, today, I will talk about Srusti (creation), Srashta (creator), and Brahma, etc. I have told earlier also, like if there is a seed and there is a map (Characteristics) of whatever has to be born out of that, inside it. In the same way, consider Brahma Swaroop (Form of Brahma) and that only Brahma Swaroop is present. There is no beginning and end of that. Like a tree comes out of a seed and a seed comes out of a tree, this is eternal. You bear in mind that you are formed in the eternal image of Brahma Beej (seed) Swaroop. The state of that Brahma is similar to an ordinary seed, which is endowed with the Germinating power. Like there is a small seed and inside, it has the Germinating power or Srujan Sakti, in the same way, there is Germinating power in this Brahma. And when it first splits, when it first pulsates, at the same moment, Pranav (Lifeforce) is established. This power is established. This power separates from the seed and establishes itself in its ego and creates the whole universe, and that seed becomes Ishwar (God) Swaroop and watches its play. Like a television set is kept and it is watching it. If the program is to its liking, it watches and if the program is not to its liking, it will switch off. 

In our scriptures, Ishwar is referred to as Shiv and His Sakti is known as Shibani. We call it Maha Shiv. The same is referred to by various names, Ishwar, Father, God, Paramatma and what we call Sakti, people refer to it by many names such as Holy Ghost, Rhu, etc. This Sakti does all the Creation. When it starts Creation, at that time, it does it in its style. It has its own style. On reaching the human state, in this Sakti, as I told you yesterday, there are Zad Tatva (Root element) and Chaitanya Tatva (Vibratory element). This whole universe is made from these two Tatvas. When the Chaitanya Tatva works with Zad Tatva, this whole universe is created and the whole universe is made. And in the process, we reach the human state. I have surely told you several times in detail; but today I have to talk about Kundalini. So, I want to take you there in a hurry.

In the case of a human, when the Zad Sakti enters a child- when he is two to three months old in his mother’s womb- it pulsates for the first time. This pulsation that happens for the first time in the child’s heart is Ishwar’s. We call this Atma. Paramatma comes as Atma Swaroop in our hearts for the first time. And the Sakti enters our head, after piercing the fontanel bone area and passes through the spinal cord in the backside and settles down in the triangular bone as a full bone. 
‘Whether it settles down or not, whether it is there are not, what state is it in, whether it is true or not, we believe because you are saying’, don’t believe me. But I can show it to you. Whether you have got your Realisation or not, if you have eyes and you are not blind, you can see that it is stationed there in the name of kundalini. Whenever someone comes to My feet, immediately there will be pulsation there, where the triangular bone is located. There is no reason for pulsation in the triangular bone because the heart is not located there. No heart is located there. But you can see the pulsation at that point through the person’s clothes movement-going up and down. Sometimes it moves quite fast. After that you notice, when the Kundalini, moves up this way, it stops at some places and pulsates; in some places, the pulsation is very rapid-where the heart chakra is located, on the backside, the cloth there moves up and down this way. That is why we have conducted experiments and people have very clearly seen this.

These people say that there is nothing like Kundalini and they don’t believe in Kundalini. You must come once and experience that Kundalini exists inside you, Sakti exists inside you and it is located in your triangular bone, not at any other place. It can present before you. You can see with these eyes, naked eyes that Kundalini is at this place. After that, you also see that on your back you feel something is moving slowly. For some people just as soon as they see Me, at once, they feel something is moving up. This is the result of punyas (good deeds) done in their previous lives. They have accumulated punyas and it presents itself at once and Kundalini is opened. And for some people, they feel stoppage. Moves up, comes down and for some people, they feel the heat at that point. The cause for this is the path of Kundalini inside you, is as I am showing you here, like a trident -one is this way and one is this way- You are seeing it, is it not? These two more Shaktis are also inside us, which are called Ida and Pingala. I will talk about these tomorrow. For some reason or the other, they pull the path towards them. And because of this, the path gets blocked and Kundalini is unable to move upwards and stops at that place, where the path is blocked.

This Kundalini is itself Chaitanya swaroopini (in the form of vibrations). The meaning of Chaitanya swaroopini, I told you yesterday. Chaitanya means: Chaitanya knows everything, Chaitanya recognises everything. Not only that all the creation in this world happens through Chaitanya. Chaitanya is full of love. This Kundalini is in the form of love and is your own mother. But there is a small difference. Your own mother does not have any other son. She knows everything about you. As if in a tape recorder everything is written: what are the defects of this boy? What problems has he faced? What are the illnesses he is having in his body? What mental tensions is he having? What difficulties has he encountered? She is present.

These days in this modern age, if someone talks about Kundalini people will not believe. But in this time, when science is being praised no end, the moment has come, when you have to turn towards the path of religion. Because science has realised, it has not found anything whatsoever. In medical science, no one is able to understand about cancer. They are not able to know, what cancer is due to. Those, who in the name of science proudly brag, let them tell me what is cancer? Even renowned doctors will not be able to tell. I will tell you that it is due to a problem with the autonomous nervous system; it is due to overactivity. And it can be treated only through Sahaja yoga and nothing else. What I am saying today will be acknowledged, perhaps, ten years from now. But so many people would have died of cancer. The world is strange! You discover something. A human mind works in such a fashion; let him be hanged. Don’t listen to him. But after death, they will build temples and honour him. I am today alive and telling you that cancer is a disease, which is caused due to the overactivity of the sympathetic nervous system. Doctors are not ready to accept it. But if a doctor gets cancer, he wants to come into the protection of Shri Mataji. But Mataji does not have time. I am after giving Realisation, but not after cancer. But if doctors open their eyes and try to understand this and not worry about the money – they may not be able to make, then they can treat cancer and cure people.

That is why, if you want to ask about Kundalini from the scientific point of view, then I will ask, do trust your eyes or not? If you trust, then see with your eyes, the pulsations on the spine on the back of a person, what are they after all? And after that in your full consciousness if you become thoughtless, what it is due to which you can go into thoughtlessness. You ask even the best psychologist, can you establish thoughtlessness in us? May not give trance, may silence the mind, but if in full consciousness establishing the inner silence and peace inside, if you can do that, I will accept your science is superior. Unless you have peace inside, you cannot establish peace outside. But open all the books of psychology and go through them and go to these psychologists and see if they have peace inside them. How can they treat us! They are themselves afflicted with our ailment.

But whatever I say, whichever way I tell, save ‘yourselves’; this is the time of Kalki. And only in this kali Yuga, the time for emancipation has come. And with that for the whole world, the arrangement is in place, because Ishwar, who is donning the role of the supervisor, who is a complete witness, He is very anxious to switch off, He is watching and if there is play, we will win and if not will be finished. You are watching what type of problems are there in this world, are surfacing in the world today, wars, poverty, diseases, you cannot bear to see them. Man cannot postpone finding a solution for these. Some say bring communism, some say bring socialism, some say bring that particular ism, some say something has to be done. To manage all these, until you get paramanand, without the power to connect to the source, you can never get joy and you can never be satisfied. Man can get happiness at the feet of Paramatma. But when I talk about Paramatma, ‘Mataji has fallen inline’.

Man is okay till I talk about science. But, as soon as I talk about Paramatma, he gets into much ego. So egoistic he becomes! What does he take himself to be? Paramatma who has made us, Who has created the whole universe, we are challenging Him! You are Radish from which garden? Tomorrow you will be plucked and thrown away-A Hindi language phrase to show how small the man is in the eyes of Divine. We are seeing Adharm in the name of Paramatma. If you talk about sex in the name of Paramatma, you are called Dharmatma (saint). There is a limit even to kali Yug. We are drowned in the limits of sin. If you can wash off your sins with science, if you can make love with science, then I will accept defeat with science.

But if my talk remains a mere talk, if you do not experience anything, if you do not get it despite my presence, my coming is also a waste and my talk is also a waste. Such a terrible Kali Yug, such darkness of ego has engulfed us, we do not think anything of the person in front of us. They are not even equivalent to speck of dust of one foot of the creation of Paramatma. I do not want to convince you. But one day I will make you a witness to all this. First, you prepare for it. To the youth of today and to the current society in the making, whatever you tell them; it will not get into their heads. The reason for this in place of dharma (religion), maha adharma (great wrong doing) has been placed. No one has talked about Kundalini. Who will talk about Kundalini in those days? Poor fellows, they have not spoken anything, still, they were put on the cross. Kundalini is present there inside and it can manifest. And if you want to see, come. If you do not want to see, if you do not want to know, you will have to put up with the consequences of ‘agnyan’ (falsehood). But you have to ask yourself what are we doing? Where are we running? What are we getting? Inside us, inside our body, all the Deities are dwelling. Now as I say this, it does not get into the brain. How is Mataji saying that Deities are dwelling within us? I will give you proof of that also.

There was a sahib, he had a complaint. He comes to Me. He says he gets pain in the stomach. A second person comes, she says ‘’I do not get children”. I said ‘put your hands towards Me’. Notice that Kundalini is sitting in her Swadishthan chakra. A small kid will tell that he is getting heat here in this finger. All those who are seated here, you observe, with closed eyes they will tell that they are getting heat in this finger, this thumb. What better science can be there, all are saying the same thing, we are getting heat here. I am not telling you. I asked him ‘what is your disease? ‘I get a lot of pain in the stomach; the second person says I have this complaint and someone said I do not have children’. They are all problems associated with aortic plexus which is activated through Swadishthan chakra and you can feel them on this finger. What more proof should I give you? Two-year-old shows this thumb and all others show this thumb and say ‘Mother it is here’. Then I ask this man to take the name of Brahmadeva and Saraswati. As soon as he takes the names, it is over and he says, “Mother I am all right now”. Now, do you need better proof than this? Brahmadeva and Saraswati are sitting there in person. If it is not so, how did it work out? If you take any other name it will not work out. Now, what more proof do you need to be placed before you? Should I call this rationality or foolishness, even while seeing it they do not accept it. Whoever has a problem with Mooladhara chakra, he will have heat here (hand). If he has a big problem, the problem could be due to obstruction or some may have a problem from ghosts, then they will have a lot of heat, even blisters may form.

Many people are going around calling themselves God etc. Leave them; even with their disciples, we will have blisters on the hand. Our hands burned. Fingers burned. All had fingers burnt at the same time. Now my two-year-old born realised granddaughter, runs away from such people. The same finger gets heated for all, getting heat for all on the same finger, which means his Agnya chakra is caught up. Christ has been crucified on the cross at the Agnya chakra, and Christ is there, whether you are a Christian or not. We get the manifestation of it. People claim they are Hindus and people claim they are Christians. They learn the ways of hating. Has anyone learned the ways of loving? For all of us, inside here is the place of Christ and He is Ganesha. If in the human form Pranav is recognised, He was the father of Ganesha and also of Christ. But if a person is mad, or he is haunted by ghosts, if someone is mentally reticent, and if he comes to me, I will help him by clearing his Agnya chakra. If I say take the name of Jesus Christ, Agnya chakra opens at once. How do I know? This is not a valid question, because I know. And even after that happens, if you do not believe this, that Adisakti has made a place for different Deities on different chakras much before the time when there was not even a trace of you. And those who are fighting amongst themselves, they should also know, for whom they are fighting among themselves, are the same; like for Mohammad Sahib and Guru Nanak. Mohammad Sahib and Guru Nanak was the same person. They had one identity. From the life of Nanak Ji, I will tell you once He was lying down. People asked him, ‘Why are You lying down with Your feet towards Mecca, where there is Kaaba?’. He said. ‘Ok I turn My feet, Kaaba has tuned’. What is Kaaba? It is dust from Mohammad sahib’s feet and the same is of Nanak Sahib also. Both are the same person and I will introduce them in Kundalini.
When someone gets cancer, he can be cured by either Nanak sahib or Mohammad sahib, no one else. Because what we call Void, is known to doctors. We call it Bhavasagara. Dattatreya, who is Adiguru, who helps us in crossing the Bhavasagara, where all gurus are present. Unless you take the name of one of them, you are not going to be free from problems of the Bhavasagara, which manifests as cancer. You can recognise cancer from the throb here. You cannot be cured. I want to ask ‘How many Muslims are here and how many Sikhs?’ One thing, Mohammad sahib has prohibited the drinking of alcohol. He said don’t touch alcohol. He did not say anything. He was murdered. I know to what state He was reduced to. Sometimes at the Mosque, there will be fights over small left overs. And I want to ask those Muslims who drink and remind them about Mohammad sahib. They won’t like it and they definitely will drink alcohol. Not only that they wrote poetry on alcohol. For them alcohol is God. When we, who have shown the path to truth, you try to break the same path by hating yourself and think of spreading hatred in the whole world. Then what else can we do? And that is why there is ego. So much concealed ego is in us in the subtlest form? That ego was given to you so that you can ask; ‘What do I have to do? What do I have to get? Whose work do I have to do? Give me the power for that.’

 Take a brush -what should it do? It has to dedicate itself to the artist’s hand. It has to surrender. Leaving aside that dedication, in that ego, the way, the material world has been created, look at it. Sometimes Arabs are sitting in arrogance, sometimes these people are arrogant, sometimes those people. Hearts of all of them are about to open. You should know that if there is any disaster in any country, not only will that country but the whole world will be erased. In the same way, if something inside us is harmed, the power which creates the universe and which flows in a subtle form in all of us will be affected. And what scientific proof do you want? For the blind, no scientific proof is enough. For them, it looks strange that a woman, a housewife, how does She know all this? Who was Sita Ji? Who was Radha Ji? And who was Mary? Are these ladies knowledgeable? To recognise them, you should have a love for yourself. As soon as some love sprouts in you, I will put Kundalini in its place. It is full of love. It loves you very much. If a man loves one so much, what does he want? That, this love spread to the whole world. This is because he wants this happiness to be felt by everyone. Whatever we are doing, it is only through the light of love. You have been equipped for the light of this love as I said. Your lamp will be lit. But keep it hidden. You have been chosen for a big task. You are a great person. Thousands have been chosen. Don’t tell me later, Mother, You did not tell us this, You did not tell us that. I am ready to tell you everything. And will tell you through your science. We will give every type of protection. It is not that you have run to jungles from this world. No need. You don’t have to say anything abnormal. Within in your household with your family, this is going to happen within you. Spring time has come, but you have no news of that. You must certainly decorate with flowers. You are seated in front of me; like a dead flower in front of me. I wish that I can take out the fragrance from your heart and spread it. Then you can give it to another. In the creation, the smartest work done in the universe, is the creation of human being! Human is the most beautiful thing. He is giver of happiness. And one who can know these vibrations, who can know this love, who can feel this joy and own it, is only one thing and that is human. I want that joy is seen in such a beautiful human being’s heart. And then they become one with that.

 Please put your hands towards Me and sit. For some of you, you will get in your hands; you will feel coolness like that coming from an air-conditioner. Look at your brain. You are not getting any thoughts. No thoughts at all. But you are conscious, fully conscious. You see your eyes are open!

[Hindi speech concludes.

Shri Mataji spoke a few sentences in English. Audio abruptly cut after a couple of sentences, and a few more sentences are given later. ]