The beginning of the talk is not on the tape

“Sahaja yogi : …[…feel they are sent by France]
Shri Mataji: Now another [Christian country], Switzerland. Now England are the people who dominated all over the world. Went up to China and see, who are they to get out of their place?
They went everywhere; in India they stayed for three hundred years. And now they don’t allow Indians to stay even for three months! And openly they are racists! These are Christians! Look at the French, the great Christ-ians of France! Christ has said : “Thou shallt not have adulterous eyes.” Every third lamppost you meet a prostitute in that country, and every seventh lamppost you see a pub there! They are Christians: no morality, and no respect for themselves, self and body, such indecent people! These are Christians.
Then Germans, when they fought, they killed so many people, they were still believing in Christ and God, and they said we are killing the Jews because they didn’t believe in Christ. Now Jews are killing the Arabs because they don’t believe in Jews. [Laugh]
This is just madness, I mean, just think of Christ what would he think of the people who are supposed to be Christians? We must face ourselves and see that we have to do a lot, if we have to really make Christ live within us.
Shri Mataji : Alright, that’s alright,
Sahaja yogi : Bolo Shri Mataji Shri Nirmala Devi ki,
Sahaja yogis : Jai!
Shri Mataji : It was a nice talk [?unclear….] otherwise how would I have brought all these points to you? I think you’ll all have something to eat – but be free now, enjoy yourself [unclear….]
[Every body seems to have food]

3:02
[cut in the audio]
3:10
Shri Mataji: …by giving you great information about all these horrible sects, into great  details. And we are going to give you information, which will be really of vital importance because we’ll give you proofs, all right?
Now there is one thing she has done that this government which is supposed to be very intelligent was going to get Muktananda to teach his yoga to the prisoners and to the police too.
Sahaja yogini: No, lunatic asylums.
Shri Mataji: Lunatic asylums – to make them more lunatic. But she, Marie-Martine wrote a letter. To whom did you write, Marie-Martine?
MM: Oh to many people!
Sahaja yogi: To the General Prosecutor of this country. She wrote accusation.
Sahaja yogi: General Prosecutor of this country.
MM: And to the Federal Police Bureau, which answered also – very nicely, very positive, and to the publishers.

Shri Mataji: – She understands English there? Better tell her in Hindi.- 

MM in French: To the public Health Department, but I have no answer, to the department checking the sentences, then I sent one letter to the newspaper and a copy of the letter to the newspaper to all these services. [not clear] They will pass it on to the relevant department.

Shri Mataji: And that has really been now circulated. Did you tell her? Answer has come; something good is happening. But this horrible gentleman, Mahesh Yogi, you have  done no justice to you. You must talk about him, get all the information! We’ll give you lots of it. He is the worst of all!
Another is this Raktabija [guru Maharaji], this fourteen-year-old fellow. And you must send a letter to our president in India and to the Prime Minister.
The Ambassador of Spain told Me that the Queen of Spain told him that “Why should India export such horrible people to ruin our young?” she said, and this fellow is so powerful there that there are fifty thousand Spanish people who are completely under his control and are feeding him. Fifty thousand!
Sahaja yogi: He could not survive in India.
Sahaja yogi: He could now be in Kolhapur or in India because we lose him in Buchs, in Switzerland, [unclear] [Lausanne, his influence is going down].
Shri Mataji: Mahesh Yogi?

Sahaja yogi: Guru Maharaji

 Yes, but he is now in America.
Sahaja yogi: And the second question we came in Chur, why not we go to the place, is a commune in Switzerland, who gives the enlightenment, or university if there is there, now we go to speak to the local, political, responsible persons in charge and to discuss, to say they can’t fool, they are not worthy but they want to invest in us.
Shri Mataji: About whom? About whom? About?
Sahaja yogi: The political authorities in the place in Switzerland where they are living.
Shri Mataji: But speak about whom? This Mahesh?
Sahaja yogi: Yes, about Mahesh. Mahesh Yogi.
Shri Mataji: Mahesh Yogi?
Yogini (Marie R.): Catherine was on the telephone today as well – I don’t know which day – to get some information from the mayor, from the town people. I don’t know what can he promise but they have a contact. They contacted them already to ask for information.
Shri Mataji: Really? But I tell you we’ll give you the information if you want. We saved a lot of information. We have got this Linda whom we can send to talk to you. Even here it is you see,  she has been to Mahesh Yogi and she can give you in the tape or you can tape Linda, or you can tape on all of them as long as you don’t give their names, you see- some of them, most of them – Linda won’t mind because her interview appeared in – was the News of the?
Sahaja yogini: News of the World.
Shri Mataji: News of the World! You see! Where she said that this man raped her! Openly she said! And then abortioned her! And then she got into epilepsy and she used to be for three hours in epilepsy! And even when she met Me, you’ll be amazed, she said he is in her heart, she can’t give him up. “He loves me,” you see. She was only seventeen and he was about forty-five or fifty, something like that!
She was very naïve, absolutely young, she didn’t know at all about men, and she is the grand daughter of a duke! And all her money, everything, was lost! And her husband became the head of the flying academy of Scotland [Mahesh Yogi’s levitation courses]. He was a diamond merchant. The other one, another… I think I’ll ask Linda to come down, that’s the best, and you give a full-fledged, you see, picture of his crimes. He is the worst of all! You write a letter and also I’ll tell you something very much later. I mean, she might be able to tell you. I think it’s better if she comes and talks to you about it. She knows so many things about this man that you can really blast him – and then send that over to Geneva. Unless and until you will give a full publicity about this man you cannot save him [unclear].
Sahaja yogi: Not only that they took, take the money from the people but they let the people work for them, work all day without paying anything to them!
Shri Mataji: [unclear] doing it at that level.
Sahaja yogini: Should we have here the tea?
Shri Mataji: All right. It’s all right, doesn’t matter. It’s all right.
Shri Mataji: Yes, what is it?
Sahaja yogi: Mother, [unclear] their imprimerie [printing house]… where they press all their publications, is in southern Germany, and centre of it? In Baden, yes.
Shri Mataji: They are all false.
Sahaja yogi: In Freiburg, near Freiburg.
Shri Mataji: They just make them secluded.
Sahaja yogi: Then they may call them brahmacharya and then they have to live there, the men, and just work.
Shri Mataji: They are cut off from the society, to live. You see this is the main point.
Sahaja yogi: We have begun to discuss in the journalist form a kind of coordination between Brian’s information, between Arneau’s information, people like me, about the sects.
Shri Mataji: We can just form that and give it to Brian.
Sahaja yogi: So with Paris.
Sahaja yogini: In Paris, Mother, there’s a lot of information already but they need a bit of…
Shri Mataji: Brian is to be informed. Brian is the person in charge.
Sahaja yogi (Arneau): Mother, if You don’t mind, I will send to Australia all the articles I have about TM, and I have got the article and the interview of Linda, too.
Shri Mataji: You have got it? 

Arneau: Yes!

Shri Mataji: And the one which was published about – because there was a fellow who came to us from Norway who sent Me some publications.
Sahaja yogi: Yes, many publications about TM, Mother. I collected that, I can do photocopies and I can send it to Australia.
Shri Mataji: All right, and to Marie also?
Marie R.: Please, yes. I’ve wanted that article for ages.
Sahaja yogi (Arneau): I had that thing now for one month. You have just to call me and I will give it to you. Please call me and I will give you.
Shri Mataji: Thank you very much.
Sahaja yogi (Arneau): And I can send it to Paris, Mother, if they want.
Another Sahaja yogi: And copy to London, 

Sahaja yogi (Arneau): and to London maybe.
Shri Mataji: What’s the name of your organisation?
Sahaja yogini (Marie): It is called ADFI.
Shri Mataji: ADFI. You should inform all other organisations, which are also doing the same kind of work.
Sahaja yogini: It’s a centre to welcome people who want and need help and documentation. Their main job is documentation.
Shri Mataji: But then you communicate these media?
Sahaja yogini: They have a press agent which can communicate. They know journalists and people.
Sahaja yogi: I think it’s the best-informed French-speaking centre in Europe except the Secret Service.
Shri Mataji: Then why not send some information to Secret Service also?
Sahaja yogi: Mother, they know the Secret Service. Secret Services are using Moon, for example.
Shri Mataji: What?
[16:33] Sahaja yogi: Moon Unification church is used and the also special from the Secret Service.
Shri Mataji: But see they do not run after scientology and the scientology is now settling down in Germany, I was told! Is it true?
Sahaja yogi: We have scientology in Switzerland also.
Sahaja yogini: They are terrible. They are very powerful in Switzerland, also.
Sahaja yogi: They are the most dangerous people for media people, this scientology. Always you’re getting caught. You will get bomb into the house and so on, so on.
Shri Mataji: Really?
Sahaja yogi: Yes, they gave some bombs in United States against journalists they [who] are writing against scientology.
Shri Mataji: The other one is Ananda Marga, which is very violent. They tried to kill some Indian Ambassadors.
Sahaja yogi: And they use techniques, brain manipulation technique used in the Korean and the Vietnam war, exactly the same.
Shri Mataji: Really?
Sahaja yogi: Yes, it’s so called “white torture” by the specialists.
Shri Mataji: What torture?
Sahaja yogi: White, torture blanche.
Sahaja yogini: They call it white torture.
Shri Mataji: White torture?
Sahaja yogi: Because it’s a torture without, “sans trace.”
Shri Mataji: Without?
Sahaja yogi: It’s a torture without traces.
Shri Mataji: That is why we call all these Satanology! That is one sect we have not been able to save. From scientology we have not been able to give anyone realisation, very dangerous.
Sahaja yogi: It’s more dangerous as [than] so-called demonology or satanic people because satanists we know they are satanic: it’s clear; but scientology, the people don’t know what is it, how dangerous.
Shri Mataji: London we have [not clear] centre, near Brighton also. I don’t know what’s wrong with the English.
Sahaja yogi: They have more money than Sahaja yogis. That’s a very well-organized.
Another Sahaja yogi: Any other cult has got more money.
Sahaja yogi: For example, Unification church of Moon has two accounts in the Swiss banks.
Shri Mataji: You see, it is because they are collecting money! We don’t collect any money at all! How can we have any money whatsoever?
Sahaja yogi: And the money system of the Children of God is, horrid, horrid! You have no idea Mother!… Moses David is living now in India.
Shri Mataji: But now they are being found out.
Sahaja yogi: Excuse me?
Shri Mataji: These gurus have been found out. [unclear] Police …they are now under criticism. The fellow was arrested.
Sahaja yogi: But not Children of God, not Children of God.
Shri Mataji: Now what is that supposed to mean?
Sahaja yogi: It’s founded by a protestant priest, an American, arrogant, and he’s called himself Moses David, and he founded the Children of God. And says he has a system from [of] parabolic sentence and some designing, some – des dessins, bandes dessinées  [cartoon drawings] bomb designs, drawings].
Another Sahaja yogi: Pretty, the pictures.
Sahaja yogini: They are very pretty [unclear].
Sahaja yogi: And they are in connection with the actuality and politics  and it takes out the young children and the young people. They say “go away” from the drawings and so on [the drawings show the children have to go away]. And he uses the child, the girls, after some moment, some preparation – complete manipulation! They don’t sleep very often, not so much food, they have to give all the money, they have ten percent for this, ten percent for this, twelve percent for Moses David which is living with his family in India, and after six months approximately the girls are instructed to go to look [find] rich men and to make prostitution to live, to love through the love for God. And they make money like this. And it’s all prostitution.
Shri Mataji: This is God’s Children protestant?
Sahaja yogi: No, no this man is coming from protestant sect but no, nothing to do with it.
Shri Mataji: But how do people allow their children to go there? They are very small children.
Sahaja yogi: They play with the law, Mother. They are always in the extreme limit of the law, and in America when you found a church you can do everything, including take LSD – because it’s in the ritual: you have the right!
Arneau: Maybe these sects, Mother, take these children because I have read in the newspaper maybe it can be in connection. I have read it in the newspaper that millions and millions of children disappear every year in the United States and the parents, see, who are in charge of the children don’t know where they are going, how they disappear. Maybe it can be in connection with these sects…
Sahaja yogi: Maybe, maybe. We know that the satanic sects use children for sacrifice, and some people use children for porno films also.
Shri Mataji: In India, they used to do it. I was told also Hitler used these Tibetans for their purposes, for his purpose, Hitler. He used Tibetans [unclear], Hitler.
Sahaja yogini: Mother?
Shri Mataji: Hitler.
Sahaja yogi: What is historical certain in connection with this, Hitler has ordered it three times an scientifical, so-called scientific alpinist and scientific expedition to Tibet. This is sure. The rest I don’t know.
Shri Mataji: What is it?
Another Sahaja yogi: He says that Hitler initiated, started expeditions to Tibet, three of them, scientific expeditions.
Sahaja yogi: This is sure.
Shri Mataji: That’s where he developed this system of mesmerism.
Sahaja yogi: But I am very, but, Mother, I am sorry. I’m really with these people, very surprised that Tibetans gave him techniques for this man or through other men. I cannot understand this.
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, he did, you see because is very easy, [you / they] can use very much. Now this Mahesh Yogi himself.
Sahaja yogi: Might be. So might be Indian fakirs or things like so also.
Shri Mataji: These Tibetans are the worst. My son-in-law has lived among these Tibetans, and he said they are all doing this bhuta vidya, black magic, all doing. They are only interested in the dead. You see, they cut the hand of the dead and bury that. They do all kinds of things. All rituals are nothing but of the dead.
Sahaja yogi: I know that two orders of Tibetans: so-called the red caps are using old ceremonies from the bone, … people coming from the Mongols. And sometimes they use bones, blood a little bit, it’s true, but it’s to go further. But I can’t imagine for this because I met an yogi, he was cutting one time his hand for Brahma and then here, also for Brahma. He was a Hindu.
Shri Mataji: I’ve read these Tibetans are horrible. This Lama, what’s his name?
Sahaja yogi: Dalai Lama.
Shri Mataji: Dalai Lama. He was sitting next to Me, one day, when we were with Shastriji – Lal Bahadur Shastri – he was the Prime Minister. His wife could not attend any parties, nor any meeting, so I used to be there because My husband was his Secretary. And he was sitting next to Me: he was boiling, absolutely boiling, and I felt little uncomfortable, you know… So Lal Bahadur Shastri, he knew about Me and said, “Are you feeling uncomfortable?” – he saw Me you see. He said, “All right. You should sit one seat that side.” And then he called the, our Foreign Minister [unclear], to sit next to Me, who was a Sikh, and he wouldn’t feel any heat or anything. Horrible people, Dalai Lama.
The whole, you see, establishment, if you see, is supraconscious because if Dalai Lama says where the other Dalai Lama is going to be, where you will find him, when will return: all supraconscious. And the, all this third eye business is also supraconscious, all supraconscious! [unclear] If you see their rituals are just to awaken the dead. The concentration is on Agnya. With the concentration in Agnya you just start shifting to the left – or to the right.
Say how they pray: they put a piece of paper, or some sort of a thing, with a little hole, and see the candle through that for the supraconscious movement. And for the subconscious movement they put a white paper with a black dot. That is how the concentration starts. Then the movement is there of other things, like if any evil genius is there: then they get near his cremation point, and then capture this part of his body somehow, especially the skull.
Translator: Especially?
Shri Mataji: The skull. And the spirit which is still hovering – soul, I mean to say soul – gets after them and they capture this man. And then they use the soul. They have very great knowledge how to master this. You see, the whole of tantrism has come from Tibet. It spread out later on the sixth or seventh century, because, you see, the kings were very licentious in the central part of India, we should say- say from Bengal you go upward towards Khajurao. And when, you see, this started and these people came to know that you can use sex in the name of God. It’s the Jainists who picked up from Buddhists! That’s another very, very fanatic cult we have in India, Jainism, the disciples of Mahavira. Mahavira was the contemporary of Buddha and these people were working as ministers to the kings. Now they wanted to establish their own temples with the money of the king. So they went and saw these kings and told him, them, that – we will try to make a live show outside the temple which will show all life styles of sex. And we will also hold many competitions, and invite people of great art to create beautiful murals and beautiful sculptures expressing perverted art, the act of sex, act of sex.”

Now this tantrism is based on one principle, how it manifests. You see, when the movement of the attention starts moving, say, to the subconscious, into the collective subconscious, the Divine tries to pull you out, tries.
Sahaja yogini : Mother?
Shri Mataji : The Divine tries to pull you out of it. But what happens that these tantrikas discovered that if you can insult the Divine or a Deity, and create an area where they are humiliated – for example, the other day the way they humiliated Me, I might have said I don’t want to go that temple anymore! By doing ugly and dirty things that Divine cannot bear, doing it again and again, again and again, say, in a temple: the whole temple can become devoid of the attention of the Divine. Then they can use this temple to manifest anti-God activities.

The evil forces are definitely afraid of the Divine, no doubt.

Yogini: Mother?

Shri Mataji: The evil forces are definitely afraid of the Divine.
You have seen how people shake before Me, all mad people, anti-God people, every type of people, how they shake before Me. But the Divine cannot get into filth, you know! By creating that filth, the movement, say, in the subconscious goes like this, [the yogini translating into French translates what Shri Mataji is showing at this point as being a kind of a loop at the basis of the left channel] in a slanting way and curls down. They create a dirty, or you can say a filthy, a horrible obnoxious hell! So the Divine does not go there. And they knew about it! Very much!

In Nepal, you go, it’s a house – houses are made, even temples are made of wood that is called Kat-mandu, means made out of tree’s wood. And they wanted to create an atmosphere of negativity there. So they convinced the artists that if you put figures which are not liked by the Divine because they are filthy, sexy and dirty, then the deity of thunderbolt, which is a virgin, will not come there, and works will not be destroyed, because She is a Kanya, She is a Kumari. But this they accepted, poor simple, you see, artists accepted, and they made horrible statues! If you go and see in Nepal it’s true of it, though you can’t see normally, not on the lower ground… 

When you see Japanese, you see, having their blue lenses on a special type of a ladder. then you start wondering what are they doing there? Japanese specially! That is very much visited by Japanese, and Germans.
Sahaja yogi: Japanese have not Kumari. Kumari is living now in Nepal.
Shri Mataji: Because the Kumari is maiden.
[The Sahaja yogini translates and says Japanese have very big cameras]
Shri Mataji [joking]: Telescope
And when you see there all that thing, then you start wondering, “Why are they doing it?” It’s so insane! And it is true that the Goddess of thunderbolt has not destroyed these temples because She can’t go near the filth which is there.
But there are some other forces which can work it out!… So, tremendous filth was created and negativity was spread. 

But why did they do it in Nepal? Because Nepal has two tremendous deities, which have come out of the Mother Earth, one of Adi Shakti Herself, Holy Ghost, and another is of Pashupati Nath, which is Shiva. He is Shiva, just Shiva, not the Shakti, and that is a very powerful temple – you can go and see the Vibrations.
Sahaja yogi: It’s very strange people in Pashupati Nath, Mother. You can’t stay three days, after, you are finished.
Another Sahaja yogi: It’s not allowed.
Shri Mataji: It is because that which is created, destroys the Vibrations and report has from whom? Nepali. All the art is Nepalese! It’s not Indian art. All that is Nepali, yes, Nepali style.
But I think people still understand, innately: they don’t put their sindoor here [bindu at Agnya]. The women of Nepal, they put it here [at Virata point]. Now this is the place of Virata, Akbar, Vishnu: because they have got the Shiva there, so they protect their Vishuddhi. Such a power of Shiva is there, so they don’t have to worry! And Sita was also born in Nepal. She was Nepalese. Even if you see My face, it has the Nepali features. Many mistake Me for a Nepali. Mahatma Gandhi used to call Me Nepali.
So it’s a Mongolian feature.

Shri Mataji: Among the paintings that I’ve seen some are so much like My face, that I am surprised. The most powerful deity that has appeared in India is in Navindya.
Sahaja yogi: In where?
Shri Mataji: In that high mountain where the temple is.
Sahaja yogi: Saptashringi.
Shri Mataji: Saptashringi – very near. You remember? She doesn’t remember?
Sahaja yogi: [Sophie, you don’t remember?]
Shri Mataji: Saptashringi. That’s very near – what’s that place?
Sahaja yogi: Nasik.
Shri Mataji: Nasik also, very good… Is a [unclear].
Sahaja yogi: Nepal, that’s Nepal.
Shri Mataji: Nepal, Nepal. There is a big hill you should have seen.

Sahaja yogini: I haven’t been to Nepal Mother.

Shri Mataji: No! Saptashringi, that’s the most powerful one, I mean regarded, because Markandeya, you see, worshipped Her many years back. She appeared in the stone to him.
Sahaja yogi: Ma, would you like a picture?
Shri Mataji: And her face is very much like Mine.
Sahaja yogi: not the face like Maa Anandamayee?
Shri Mataji: Like what?
Sahaja yogi: You have a face like Maa Anandamayee?
Shri Mataji: Mayee [means]?
Sahaja yogi: Maa Anandamayee.
Shri Mataji: No, no! Hers is very thin. She’s a rakshasa!
Sahaja yogi: Horrible Maa Anandamayee…
Shri Mataji: She is another one. I must tell you about this Maa Anandamayee. Our Prime Minister has got [her?].All her disciples suffer from diseases – kidney trouble, or angina. They always quarrel with their husbands and have divorces.
(Looking at the photograph and discussing)
Shri Mataji: This is Saptashringi. And this has appeared in the – imagine, in the, nobody has carved. See the Vibrations!
Sahaja yogi: Yes, Mother.
Shri Mataji: Come, see the place where it is. It is on the hills around the place. This time you come to India and you’ll see.
Sahaja yogi: Mother, it’s true Buddha is born in Nepal, not in India?
Shri Mataji: What is it?
Sahaja yogi: Buddha is born in Nepal not in India – but as this place it was at His time India but now is on Nepalese territory?
Shri Mataji: Kosambi – born in Kosambi. There was a dispute on the border, I don’t know what has happened. Buddha was born in Nepal but that has now come to India, so I mean it is [unclear]. Imagine this has come up out of the Mother Earth!
Sahaja yogi: With all the colours and everything?
Sahaja yogini: This is the rock itself, was no photograph effect.
Sahaja yogi: You have been there, Mother?
Shri Mataji: You have been there? Marie-Martine was there.
Sahaja yogini (M-M): It’s very beautiful.
Shri Mataji: I’m just tell them about what we got from Portugal, experience of the Portugal! And you have got it with you?
Sahaja yogi: No, I haven’t Mother. It’s at Nightingale.
Shri Mataji: Oh! In Portugal, I must say it’s a very good experience in Portugal. In Portugal, the man who has the keys of the hall said, “Tomorrow You have to finish the programme very fast because I have to go to a fair.”
So immediately I told him, “I am coming with you to the fair.”
He said, “Why?”
I said, “Yes I want to come.”
And we took all the Sahaja yogis and went to the fair, and there I asked people, “Is there any temple here or why is this fair?”
So they said “There’s a temple here, been built to the glory of the Mother, and in ancient times two small children running after a hare, running after a rabbit, and they came to a point where they saw a light, in a niche, and they saw the Mother, 

Sahaja yogi (in French): It’s not Fatima?

Shri Mataji: No, no. Long time back! And they went to call everyone. But when all the people came in, they didn’t find anything in the niche. But they tried to explore the niche because the hare had gone through the niche and when they pulled out their hands they found a statue like this, out of a stone, beautifully carved! It was not carved, it was like this, made by nature, you see. They pulled out the statue from somewhere like that, and they put it there calling her the Mother of the Rocks.” The Vibrations were tremendous, and the face was just like Mine.  The boys have taken out a bulletin.

Sahaja yogini: Mother?

Shri Mataji:  The boys have taken out a bulletin, and they have drawn. 

So, how things are discovered in modern times! But without Vibrations, how will you know?

Like that Musalvadi. There is a village near Rahuri where we have a centre, and they invited Me in Musalvadi, they gave a huge programme. On our way Dhumal, one of the organisers, told Me that this place has a very strange history. There is a bund [an embankment used especially in India to control the flow of water], you see, [because this  bund comes from English people long time back, and when they tried to build here – the whole night they would build and the whole day they would build, and next day it would be all destroyed, that part – and they could not understand!
Sahaja yogini: I have some pictures also.
Shri Mataji: Oh, you have here? And the engineer got tired.
Then one realised soul was passing that way. He was a Muslim and he told that this is a place from where the Vibrations are coming out, you can never build anything on this. You have to go in a circle. So the engineer wrote this in his history, in his report, and the bund is little circular in that area, like loops.
I went and saw the place. It was the Sahasrara! I could see the three powers coming down and all that so, so well, and then Shiva, and that was a very hot day. As soon as I stepped on that soil – tremendous Vibrations, cool! So I told them a temple must be built. This is the Sahasrara! So they have put a stone with My name on it, that the opening of this temple has been done by Mataji Nirmala Devi. It’s such a tremendous place! Just have a look, so vibrated! I mean, this is a fact, you can see this. Have you got that photograph where there is rays of light coming on My head?
Sahaja yogini: Ha! Yes, I understand. Oh no, Martine is the great photographer. I only have a few pictures.
Another Sahaja yogini: [unclear] cold.
Shri Mataji: Don’t mind. I’ve got what I wanted. I won’t have anymore. So what is it now?
Shri Mataji: Please go ahead, he likes fruits! Go ahead. You eat for Me also! Even My part you have to eat! You can give Me some grapes.
Sahaja yogi: Mother, today it will not be so heavy and difficult. The people of this province are not the same as in Geneva: little bit more quiet, probably will be more quiet.
Shri Mataji: Yeah! Will be better, for Me. But you see, I don’t blame the Western people for this, because the time when they should have been checked not to deviate from God, this is for Mother, you see. But it’s a very big one I would definitely agree. Oh, they have sent you copies of this who are a bit enlarged, with all kinds of colours.
Sahaja yogi: Mother, at my house while one day I was in meditation, as one candle fall down onto Your photo, Your picture, and instead to burn the picture it made a light on the Sahasrara.
Shri Mataji: Sorry.
Sahaja yogi: While I was in meditation, one candle fall on Your picture and instead to burn the picture it make a light on Your Sahasrara.
Shri Mataji: Oh, I know this photo. He told Me, that’s why when I put My hand, you know, up there, by moving, it proved with that, [not very clear] it is the, there is an attention it goes up.
Sahaja yogi: Sometimes in Nepal we have some religious [not clear] houses, religious pictures, and we have flowers turning in the direction of these pictures. Might be if we have Your picture the flowers bloom this side!
Shri Mataji: You see, there is no materialisation, no materialisation, not materialisation. But what happened, that day was a Shiva Puja. We have done it on a Shiva day, means Shiva’s Puja. They took My photograph of My feet, and actually they saw flames coming out of My three fingers which were burning, and here also it’s on the left Vishuddhi, flames, the Adi Guru!
This particular photograph [of Mine], let Me see, there were six expositions of this, last summer when I was sitting outside an old [unclear]… This, this particular one, the one that is there.
Sahaja yogi: That is Cheryl.
Shri Mataji: Is Takinia. [Cher], Cheryl, [Cheri] Australian Sahaja yogini. And this light, that is the place called Takinia, means “a gentleman called Nia.” Nia means a realised soul. When a Muslim is a realised soul is called as Nia. A fakir. A pir. And this name of the place was Takini. So in India we usually respect if somebody is a realised soul whether he is a Muslim or anything. Once he is a realised soul he is respected. 

Now this Takinia, there where I was speaking, because I knew it was a vibrated place and they told Me that he’s buried here also, long time back. When I was giving lecture, suddenly this light started falling on Me. And very joy-giving, I knew, and six photographs are there, and in some of them I’m extremely joyous just as I did bathing into something. But the seventh one, I put My hand like this [from the yogini’s translation: above the head] and it has stopped. This thing cannot be explained!
So if there are fake gurus, if there are false faiths, then we must know there has to be the real one. If there are plastic flowers we must know there has to be a real flower to give a copy. Now this Krishnamurti is another horrid fellow. He gives brainwashing.
He says, “Just believe in yourself. […] They are all false. You are your own guru and you can become realised.”
I’ve seen people of this Krishnamurti they blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. They talk just like him. But the best was the grandson of this Dadaji came to see Me; grandson of Dadaji. His guru was Babaji.
Sahaja yogi: Not Sai Baba?
Shri Mataji: No, this is another one, Kriyananda guru.
He said “because my grandfather was Dadaji, naturally in childhood I had to do Kriya yoga”. But I found the people who were doing Kriya yoga they were not at all changing, they were very bad people and they had bad eyes for children also, and horrible people! They used to wear that kashaya – orange this thing, shaved their heads off, cut their tongue! Cut their tongue! And turn it back for khecari!. There are so many now walking with us achieving nothing!
So he said, “I became a big Kriya yogi but then I realised that this is all stupid, and very dangerous!”
So he took to Krishnamurti – when Krishnamurti started talking, he was very enamoured because he convinced him that they are all false!
And then he said, “I started talking like Krishnamurti myself! I found myself giving lectures just like Krishnamurti! Just like a machine, talking big, big things, the same acting, and when people said that they would like to publish my lectures I got the fright of my life – because I was honest about it I knew I was nowhere, anywhere a realised soul and I was talking just blah, blah, blah, blah! But now I have come to You Mother, I surrender to You, but I am extremely complicated case. Please work on me.”

Sahaja yogini: Mother?

Shri Mataji: “Please work on me.”
Then I came to London and this Sahaja yogi gave him up, he was too bad, so very horrible. But I know of one doctor who got him, who was a Kriya yogi and who is dead. Had a very miserable death, and his wife was is now a Sahaja yogini. So many stories… every part of your life is full of stories! There’s no end to these horrible people. But, the most annoying thing is that I always feel I have known all of them but suddenly somebody comes with another name. Now once you try to finish them and when you want to finish them and want to take to the other side of the fanatic and all the intellectual nonsense, there are still many are coming out like mushrooms.
Sahaja yogi: The Moon people have seven new names in the two last years; on scientology, five names of organisations. In words nothing to do with scientology or Moon but practically same thing because the society [unclear].
Sahaja yogini: They changed their names. They changed the names. Scientology becomes the Dianetics, for example.
Shri Mataji: Really?
Sahaja yogini: So people think it’s something else, you see, but it’s the same.
Shri Mataji: Then really I don’t know.
Sahaja yogi: Only Christians are not doing like so.
Shri Mataji: Only?
Sahaja yogi: Only the Christians.
Sahaja yogis: They are very charismatic now, very charismatic. Or they go to the psychiatry.
Shri Mataji: And charismatic you must be. We have one charismatic [unclear] programme.
Sahaja yogis: He’s here, Mother. He’s here.
Shri Mataji: Oh, yes, yes, I couldn’t recognise you!
Sahaja yogi: It’s a charismatic trick.
Shri Mataji: I tell you really he was so poor! He suffered so! O God, you can’t imagine! Well, I mean, I was so full of tears but I didn’t know what to do, because he could not talk, you know! And when he fell down then only I ordered them to get out! They would not give Me any chance, you see, just to enter him. And once I said, “stop it,” all ran away with all their paraphernalia.
Sahaja yogi: Like it’s told in the Bible.
Shri Mataji: Like what?
Sahaja yogi: Like is told in the …
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes. They all run away!
Sahaja yogi: You were talking initially about Lamas, how they manipulate spirits or what happens to, what happens when somebody dies? I mean, why, their spirit also, then it has to wait so many years? Or why, for example, they choose this person or another or why they attack specifically Sahaja yogis? Are they just thinking they are going, their waiting time in hell is shorter or what? Why do they attack us, Mother? You said that we shouldn’t live, for example, close to a cemetery, that we shouldn’t go for the cemetery. You know, what, how does it really operate, Mother?
Shri Mataji: You see, when a person dies, it depends on the person how he dies; and also on the personality. Supposing there is a mother who dies leaving a little baby. Then the mother feels that she has left the child alone, you know, and she is worried about the child. So she just does not go to the area where she has to be after the death. She hangs around the child. Because only the element of the earth falls off, and the rest of the elements are there, and also water starts evaporating, so that we don’t see it.
The Kundalini of every person rests on his head and the spirit rests on top of that. While the people who die in this kind of a condition are in a way harmful to the child but not to the other people so much. But, say there are sinister people, say some drunkards. They die. Then they find somebody who is a drunkard or who wants drink, or maybe there is somebody whom they can use for drinking. And, say, in much the way that if they have left some bottles half-drunk and they are miserly, so they want to come in a man or a woman, whatever it is, and they enjoy the same.
There can be spirits and spirits, for if there is a man who is a man with – is a womanizer: means he can enter into someone who becomes a rapist without understanding why is he raping. Homosexuality! Even the so-called homosexuality is also due to the possession of a woman by a man, and man by a woman. We have also cured so many of homosexuality! Now there could be a man who is a murderer and a bad man, a criminal. He can possess also someone, and suddenly someone can become [a murderer and a bad man]! Or somebody who does too much of racing or who indulges into anything too much. It’s all a question of using others.
Sahaja yogi: Mother, on which level does it take place, for example? If somebody like that, a criminal, dies in Lausanne, would he catch, would he get on the nearest person in Lausanne or would he just go on the best available ride, right around the world?
Shri Mataji: Depends on, you see, how they move on in the whole world. They maybe can get on top of a plane and walk across.
Sahaja yogi: Flying carpet? On a flying carpet?
Shri Mataji: Because supposing they have never seen the world, he doesn’t know all the bad parts of the world, then he may not dare. But there is a very big collectivity in them. They, you see, communicate with each other. I’ll give you a very good example:
My first Sahaja yogi disciple was a Gujarati diamond merchant, very nice man, very nice, the first one. As a man, because the lady was another one, as a man. Now this man once called his friend to bring seven lemons and seven chillies, his friend, and he went to the station to receive him, and the fellow never appeared. So he went to the post office to telephone, to find out. There he met a man in the post office, working in the post office, who said that “Why do you want to call such and such man? I know you want to take him to Mataji, and Mataji – you see, is regular information department, better than yours –, and She is doing such a great work, why do you want to take this problem to Her? Don’t disturb Her!” You see, very convincing also, very convincing!
This Chandu Bhai, poor thing, was a simple man and by that time I had not started talking about bhoots. So he was stunned, he was stunned at the way this fellow talked to him!
He said, “There is a temple and such and such place coming from Bombay. You go there, take one coconut and fruits, and there is a Ganapati temple, and the fellow who is there, is the priest, he’ll tell you all about it.”
Poor Chandu Bhai went with his friend to that place and put the coconut. So he told him that “No, no, no, no this wouldn’t work out, because is a very difficult work, you see. Next time you have to bring a silver plate for Shri Ganesha, of this size, this size” and the house name he told.
So Chandu Bhai came home and told his wife. Now Chandu Bhai’s wife was, the wife was worried about her daughter who was in divorce in America. So his wife was a very half-baked Sahaja yogini. So she told Chandu Bhai that “I want to go there. Please take me.” So Chandu Bhai, poor thing, he had to take her! He asked Chandu Bhai’s wife to bring something of diamond also. She secretly also gave him.
After that Chandu Bhai came to see Me, and his heart was in complete catch. I said, “Where have you been?”
He said, “Why?!”
I said, “Tell Me the truth. Where have you been?”
You’ll be amazed; still there were Vibrations flowing a little bit, little bit. Then he told Me the whole story.
I said “Your heart is caught. You are in for a heart trouble!”
I gave him treatment and I told him, “No more go to that man!”
And Chandu Bhai said, “All right, Mother. I’ll never go.”
But his wife was very negative. She called that man to the house and he again got a heart, really got a heart attack, and when he got the heart attack, he put Vibrations, he got all right. But this negative woman called a doctor who gave him an injection and when he was giving injection only Chandu Bhai died. There is such a communication! I mean, so much you don’t know.
There is another very senior Sahaja yogi called Mr. Pradhan.
[Missing part] He came to Me. He got cured, passed his LMD, but he was possessed by some sex maniac or so. So because of that he could not sort of come up in Sahaja Yoga, always used to oppose Sahaja Yoga [unclear]. So we told him not to come to programmes. One day a lady came who was ruined by this…another horrible guru who, what’s his name who was in Nagar, a Parsee gentleman?
Sahaja yogi: Meher baba?
Shri Mataji: Meher baba. Oh, horrible! And she went into trance and started telling about Meher baba, how he used her for sex! This son of Pradhan came rushing into the hall
and told her, “Don’t tell anything to Mother! Don’t tell anything to Mother!”
He used to live so far away. He came rushing, running from his house to the hall and rushed inside the hall and stopped: “Don’t say anything! Don’t say anything!” He just put his hand on her mouth- and he had never met this lady! So she just threw him aside, she said, “Jagadamba, Jagadamba, Jagadamba,” and he started trembling then.
So Pradhan said, “See the fraternity of the bhoots! See their friends!”
I mean, so many, thousand and one I can give you. [unclear] They read minds, this materialisation they do, all that sort of things, out of [not clear] that play of bhoots only.
Sahaja yogi: Mother, to what extent can the bhoots be regimented and used by the negativity, in other words an army of bhoots as it were there? 

Other yogi: Positive or negative?
Shri Mataji: To Me, actually it’s different. You see, the collectivity of the bhoots and the collectivity of the Sahaja yogis is extremely different: that in the first case they are not free and the second case they are absolutely free. You see, whatever horrible things Hitler has done he has used bhoots because human beings could not do that! How could they kill somebody in the gas, little children? I mean, it’s impossible! I went to Berlin and I felt I was in a collective bhoot cemetery, horrid! At the slightest pretext I ran away to Dresden. I have been to all these places you’ll be amazed! I have been to Russia. I have been to Mainland China. I have been to East Berlin. All the tricks are there.
Sahaja yogi: Mother, I was very hurt from lot of emotions, because you say about the Dalai Lama. I cannot, I cannot compare all Tibetans to Dalai Lama because one thing is I saw people going in a house without using a door. I saw one man stopped the rain and also saw some other people make it. One man going like in a distance and can be so sharp only a horse can do it. All these are bhoots? That’s all bhoots?
Shri Mataji: These are bhoots. Why? Because God is not interested in these things! What is His interest in these things? Just tell Me. Is that God has to do? Just use your understanding! Why will God want you to walk so fast like a horse? He doesn’t want you to be like a horse, does He? You are an intelligent man. Use this! Dalai Lama is a very posh fellow you see, but he is a big parasite! He used to take his food or drink in what? Do you know? In a gold cup! He had everything gold in his house – like your Pope, great Pope! – and he sucked these Tibetans, completely sucked their blood! Now he’s come to India to suck our blood, and there have been questions about him in the Parliament: why do you have this parasite here? Why should we look after him? It’s some sort of a prestigious issue for Indians to have him there!
Sahaja yogi: Political.
Shri Mataji: Not so political because, you see, there’s a big cult image for Dalai Lama all over the world. If they ask him to get out, people will never understand, as you yourself said, see: “Ha! Dalai Lama! Oh, really great!” Just for that thing you saw! They had given Me a plot of land and then they said, “No, no, no, no here Dalai Lama somebody has to come.”
I said, “Why? Who this Dalai Lama is?”
He said, “Oh, we know he’s a horrid [not clear] fellow and we have to just do it to show, otherwise he is so bad that if we do anything to him, he’ll immediately go to Americans and publicly he will denounce us.”
See everybody is following. Nobody is going to keep him in his house! It’s very good idea. You see, if they like him so much why don’t they have him? We’d be very happy to get rid of him, but nobody wants to take and he is using this situation. Nepalese do the same because they are precariously placed – Nepalese. So what they do? Indians have to please them because they are precariously placed. They are making – Indians – the whole road from India to Nepal is built by Indians. All the money is spent by Indians! They are using their position very well because they know that. And here they are having a little rapport with Chinese also, which used to keep Indians dancing…
Sahaja yogi: The thing which puzzled me very much, it was just there was some accident bad things in absence of Dalai Lama, this puzzled me very much.
Shri Mataji: What did they do? What did they do?
Sahaja yogi: Oh, it was a monk for example, who was killed by hundred and fifty bees, died after two hours, in Dharamsala.
Shri Mataji: Who died?
Sahaja yogi: A monk, a Tibetan Lama.
Shri Mataji: Died?
Sahaja yogi: This time it could happen only when Dalai Lama was not there.
Shri Mataji: I will tell you what it is. You have read the Devi Mahatmyam? Read the story of Bhramara Devi [Bhramara Devi is a form of the Adi Shakti as the goddess of bees]. Rakshasas can be killed by Her. She has killed them, actually is the Bhramara Devi. They were all horrible parasites.
Sahaja yogini: Mother, if You would like to take some rest…
Shri Mataji: I will. Imagine these monks! Why should they have gold cups for themselves?! You see, for a saint nothing matters! He will never care for comfort, never! First point. Now you can come and see in My house how comfortably I live, because My house is very comfortable. But if you put Me even in the villages of India or anywhere then it’s all right,

on the bullocks cart, it’s all right: nothing matters to Me! And that for a saint, he is like an emperor, nothing can dominate, no comfort, nothing: he’s above! But for a person who says he is a king and asks for this like a beggar this, that, then what is, is he a king?

I mean, of course, if somebody is a divine personality, to have the best of Vibrations there must be a proper metal, it is important, to suit good Vibrations first of all. But people even have washed My feet on a plastic bowl, believe Me, even the water in the plastic, food in the plastic, which in My own house I would not even touch and allow it to come in the house! To Me it doesn’t matter, but it should matter to others.
Sahaja yogini: When we have gold, Mother, it will be only for You.
Shri Mataji: I am not thinking I am going to survive that long! Don’t you worry. I don’t need any more, you see. I don’t have, but I am saying that it was, it is said in the Book that for the Goddess you have to use gold, no doubt, or the silver, but that doesn’t mean that Dalai Lama is a Goddess.
There’s another one coming up now, he’s supposed to be Shankaracharya. He’s making a big chatra you see, one big –what you call those like structure they use, umbrella – gold umbrella! Can you imagine! Such a big one and he is only four feet and  has little feet thin like a stick! And that umbrella once falls on him! That’s the best, all funny happens.
Sahaja yogini: When? When it happened?
Another Sahaja yogini: No, no it’s not happened yet.
Sahaja yogi: It will happen.
Shri Mataji: We have not been able to collect so much gold so far. Another one is Aga Khan who was weighed.
Sahaja yogi: Who was Aga Khan?
Shri Mataji: That [unclear] fellow Aga Khan. He weighed himself. He used to take first he took silver when he was twenty-five years of age, of his weight. And he was very fat, like that. He took silver of his weight. Then he got to diamond, no, no, no, got to gold. Then he died. Thank God for the diamond. Now his son is there.
Sahaja yogi: Two, two sons.
Shri Mataji: Two sons but the one who is now the Aga Khan. He is member of the UN, and the another is the refugee one. I have met him.
Sahaja yogi: No, one…
Shri Mataji: One is the Aga Khan.
Sahaja yogi: Yes, but the one who work for refugees has nothing to do with Ismaili position.
Shri Mataji: Yes, he lives separate. Whatever it is, both are useless people. And the one who is Aga Khan is the worst. It is said if they enjoy women in this life time their disciples will enjoy women in the heaven. What do they think they were doing? You laugh but they don’t. They think he is very holy and find women for him…
Sahaja yogi: His brother is also laughing about this.
Shri Mataji: Brother laughs, laughs but he should say his real name. Why should he call himself Aga Khan? That’s not the way. See, what I am saying is, he is not a saint.
All kinds of things these Ismailis are doing, in front of My house, at the gateway when we get out on that Premier Road, Old Brompton Road. They are building a huge, a huge big building, Ismaili Centre. This will never be finished, I know. Horrid! They will all die with their palaces. We had only one Rasputin once upon a time; now there are so many! The best part of it, they are interested only in money and women. There is no purity and that’s the advantage: that all impure and false things have to fall – because they have no base!
They’ll all be exposed. That is the best death for them, because if they die they can again use their satanic forces from the subconscious! Let them live in the present tense and get exposed. Let all the seekers of the world get out of their clutches so that Sahaja Yoga works. May God bless you all!
You see, if somebody says about Pope in India they will be equally hurt when I say about Dalai Lama in Switzerland! [Shri Mataji laughs]
Sahaja yogi: I was Catholic.
Shri Mataji: You know, My husband was so impressed by Pope you can’t imagine!
He said, “He is not like Dalai Lama. He is a much better person!.” He was so impressed, he went to see him, you know. And he said, “Ha! What a man! He was very nice, very good, very religious. They had silver and gold, you know, for the tea. They had, he said very good things they had there. I said, “It’s all other people’s money. They aren’t their own!”
My husband knows about Dalai Lama because he was with the Prime Minister but he doesn’t know about Mr. Pope. So he said: “You mean to say he is just like a parasite as Dalai Lama is?” I said. “Yes!” I sais “ Pope has no source of income of his own.”
He could not believe. He said, “I’ll find out.” I said, “You find out for Me. It’s a good thing. So I see where [unclear] he had the dinner set.” He doesn’t have any personal money of his own. Imagine!
Sahaja yogi: It’s for the visitors.
Shri Mataji: It’s for the visitors, yes. He himself is a visitor! See, you should see his apartment! By chance I have seen his property in Vatican because first time when I went, I went as a VIP. I had to come to the VIP, certainly I did. I tell you, o God, such a lot they have! I don’t know what are they going to do with the brooches of silver and gold and all emeralds and what are they going to do with ladies’ ornaments, I don’t know, there!? And these Spanish things, you know, these necklaces that they wear, these all diamonds?
Sahaja yogini: There is a gentleman on the telephone. His name is Kelly and he was in Geneva and he has a fundamental question to ask You. And he said that it was more difficult to talk to You than to the Pope. He would like to meet You. So I said, “Just a minute. I will go and ask.” And he said, “I am sorry. I cannot come this time.”
I said, “Listen, if you want to…” [talking about this man]
Shri Mataji: Pope’s more difficult than anybody else, Pope you cannot go near.
Sahaja yogini: I said to this gentleman, “If you don’t let me go and ask I won’t. This is more important than the Pope so you have to take your time too.”
So he said, “OK.” So would you like to put him on?
Shri Mataji: What does he want?
Sahaja yogini: He is from Geneva.
Shri Mataji: Yes, [unclear] you tell Me.
Sahaja yogi: We talked to him yesterday, Mother. He is a curing person. He thinks that he is realised and he has understood everything but he would like to talk to You nevertheless – [unclear] a bit higher.
Sahaja yogis: Please, Mother, no, please Mother. It’s a waste of time, Mother, wasting Your time Mother, Your precious time!
Shri Mataji: All right, tell him that Mother has sent word that you are not a realised soul. Take your realisation.
Sahaja yogini: [Many Sahaja yogis speaking at the same time.]

1:49
[Cut in the audio]

[No audio for the last words]
Shri Mataji: What is it?
Sahaja yogini: These people, they are headache. They are headache for You…
Shri Mataji: What did he say?
Sahaja yogini: He said that he was feeling the negativity when they asked him to see You and so on because they said, I said that “No, you will have to wait,” and so on and he can’t wait, you see.
Sahaja yogi: He was maybe a bit hurt because I said he had to wait. I don’t know, I forgot his name.
Shri Mataji: So I can see him now sitting down here. I don’t have to go to the hall.
Sahaja yogi: No, no, no he’s not here in the house.
Sahaja yogini: He is on the phone.
Sahaja yogi: And if he wants to come and talk to us, we can explain the things, you know. Mother, it is not Your job to do these things.
Shri Mataji: No, you should say, “Mother talks to only realised souls. You are not.”
Sahaja yogini: They can be a headache for us but not for You.
Shri Mataji: “You think [unclear] She has so many things to be done. You are not so important because you are not a realised soul”, all right? Marie-Martine…