Evolution Beyond organized Religion, public programme, Caxton Hall, London (UK), 13 November 1978.

The first part – Draft

… powers within us which manifest. Now, these are the undercurrents which we cannot see. They are energies which we cannot feel with our senses. But they do exist, and we can see their manifestation very clearly within us. 

For example, the first point on the left-hand side is for our existence. Whatever we have existed as before and today as we are, all that power came to us through this.

Now existence, you know – we exist nobody has questions about that, we don’t doubt that we do exist. But how do we exist? When you think this Earth is revolving with such a tremendous speed around itself, and there are billions and billions of stars around, and we are small little very microscopic things compared to this Earth, all stuck on this Earth very nicely, and even when we walk or move we do not fall off, you are kept just there, even if the ocean, say the Atlantic, becomes slightly deeper than what it is, or [the] Himalayas becomes slightly higher than it is, it can create an imbalance. When [the] sun and moon keep their own styles quite alright, and so many shooting stars [are] coming from around, they keep the distance and maintain the human life. It is really amazing the way God has placed us.

I am sorry, I had to use His name. God has placed us in such a beautiful circumstance, in such a secure place, and we are nothing but little, little things, absolutely Lilliputians if you see that. And how kindly He has created us, and He makes us exist, not only that, but the desire to exist is the strongest in the human beings. Except when he is possessed by some self-destroying forces. Otherwise, that is the strongest desire and that’s how we exist. And, this is the force by which we exist, and this is the energy that makes us exist. And this is the energy, when it comes to destruction it also destroys. Because existence, – the other side of existence is destruction. If you have the light, then you can see the light all around, but when the light goes out it is darkness. So, the destructive power is actually, is the other side of the constructive power, we can call, or the existence within us. When this power goes out of us, then we are destroyed. The death comes to us. Death is very important. I will tell you later on why death is very important and where is our death placed in our being.

So, on the right-hand side, we see another energy flowing that is the aspect of God which is creative, by which we are created, by which we are made men and women, by which the whole universe is created. All the stars and the billions of all such bodies, which are revolving, all are created by this power. And, within us, this power gives us the power to create, to think, to think for the future and this power comes to us by the force that God has within Himself by which he creates. He also reflects within us that beautiful power of creation. It is best manifested in the human beings. In the lower animals, we can only see that they can create, or recreate their own replicas, or we can say they can reproduce. But we cannot see, say, a dog painting something. It is the human being only who can reflect what God has created, and produce something that looks like what God has created. Only human beings can think for the future. For example, the animals do not want to ensure themselves anywhere. Only the human beings ensure themselves, their teeth, their eyes, their nose, I don’t know what else they insure.

So, in human beings only this is manifested the maximum is the creative power which is on this side, you see the yellow line. Now the third power, [which] is very unknown and nobody can explain how it works, is the power by which we sustain ourselves, by which we have got [the] carbon atom having four hands. We have tetravalent and monovalent and different types of elements placed in the periodic lows of chemistry. Organic chemistry, also, if you see, that also is arranged through the sustenance of a particular molecule or atom. In the human beings also there is sustenance, and is most manifested. 

In the animal stage, for example, people are all the time genuine. They cannot play games. Only human beings are capable of being not genuine. If some animals are cunning, they too are nowhere compared to the cunning of human beings. And we can really be very good hypocritical people, we could carry on with all kinds of falsehood and show that we are not that – that means we are very well using this power to our best advantage, that the sustenance that we have, in the sustenance that we should have within ourselves, the human beings should be able to express themselves the way they like, is a power of freedom given to them, whether they keep up their sustenance or not. We have got sustenance power, which is in a very simple way expressed in the bible as Ten Commandments. 

These are actually within us, we have achieved them through our evolution! We are the highest in the evolution. From Amoeba to this stage how we have come why we have come, nobody can explain. Nobody can say how we have become human beings. And what is the necessity for a poor Amoeba to suddenly become a human being? What is the need for an Amoeba to be a human being? And then human beings do not know why are they here. What is their purpose? What are they supposed to do here? All these have come to us through this central power of sustenance.

Now, it has two sides. It has one side on the left-hand side is what we have been so far. We have been animals, we have been Amoeba, we have been matter. And the second side [unclear] what we are going to be.

Now, there are many people who say that – ‘we have been animals, so what’s wrong if we become animals? I mean, it’s logical otherwise to look at because logic can become quite blind. People say – ‘there is no harm in being animals, after all, we had been animals, and now we have become human beings. Why not we become animals? Because it is natural to be animal-like. According to them, one side of the nature is important. But the other side is that you have to evolve, the future. This is not the end of evolution. This is definitely to be known that it is not the end of evolution. The human beings have not evolved to their complete fulfilment! If they had, they would have known what have they to achieve! But still, they are trying to guess what must be the reason, and where have we to go and what should we do.

The evolutionary stage so far has come to you spontaneously. You didn’t do anything about it. You do not even remember how you became [a] human being. Can you imagine about one billion years back? You were nothing but something like, you can say, [an] atom somewhere hanging in the air. And today you look like a complex thinking, working, manoeuvring human being. 

Now this evolution has come up to the stage where you are. And this evolutionary power had been given to us by God. He Himself in different aspects incarnated on this Earth, to give a new impetus, a new awareness within human beings to rise and to achieve their goal.

One of the latest ones was Christ. Christ was an incarnation of God’s innocence, and He came on this Earth to give us an example of a spiritual being by which, – Krishna was another incarnation who said that – it cannot be killed, it cannot be blown off, it cannot be death and that eternal being you are! Christ proved it by his life, by his resurrection.

All these people came on this Earth, to give us a lead in our evolution, because we were weak [unclear, enough], we could not take the lead ourselves, and that’s why God gave us this lead.

Now, we are at this juncture, when we are in [unclear] century, supposed to be up-to-date, twentieth-century people, and we are very capable of understanding lots of things which our forefathers did not. But we went wrong somewhere, definitely.

When we started our life, [a] long time back, I should say, in ancient times, you were absolutely primitive people. Now, in that primitive stage when we started growing, we came up to a point where we started thinking of God, and started thinking of the powers beyond. Perhaps the powers beyond were always a thought working in the human beings for a very, very long time because there was a sense of insecurity among the people who lived even in the forest, and in that primitive stage. That fear built up in their mind an idea that there must be some power, which is beyond this, which can control these horrible forces which are trying to trouble us. 

Now this control and this idea of control came into the awareness of human beings, though [a] long time back, it took a form, quite a sensible form, later on, and they started thinking of God, they started thinking that there must be some God Almighty, who would be able to protect us. And there must be some forces, that are going to help us to overcome the agonies of nature where they are living. Because the atrocities of the nature were so much, people could not even say leave for twenty-four hours without feeling frightened. They had to be worried about the rain that is going to drench them. About the earthquake that was threatening them, all their lives were threatened by the calamities that may befall them [at] any time.

Naturally, (Shri Mataji is addressing a seeker – you can come there, where is a place to sit down. It’s alright?) – So, the calamities of the world and the atrocities, we can say that the adversities of life made people [to] think of doing something about it. Now the whole evolution has worked on this point. When the fishes found that the food in the sea was not sufficient, nor they were safe any longer in the water, they asked for help within themselves and an incarnation came, they say, which crossed the sea and brought them to the shore. Then the reptiles, when they found that the life was difficult, the existence itself was difficult for them, they sought their evolution to something else.

In the same way, today, at the modern point where we are, when we see all kinds of tensions coming up, when we see there are funny atrocities which we cannot explain, and we feel our existence being challenged at this juncture we have to evolve, we have to get out of it, we have to do something to get out of it. The first calamity of the modern times is tension. You are tense, absolutely tense. For what? The more we have developed ourselves, the worse it is. People try to escape by committing suicide. People try to escape by taking drogues, alcohol, this, and that. But they cannot, they have to face life, and they cannot because they are not prepared for it. They think they are not equipped. Why our forefathers were better equipped than we were? We may blame anything, but that is what has happened.

The difference between other problems, or we can say the calamities of nature and today’s calamities, is very little but can be very dangerous. The first one was brought by the nature and challenges. But today the calamities have come to us by ourselves. We have created these calamities in a very great misdone. For example, we have created [an] atom bomb. So, created a monster, [and] when we destroyed some people it was alright, but when we saw the monster [unclear] – “Oh, God! This is the one [that] we created, which is going to eat us all!” It is not going to discriminate whether you are American, Japanese or Chinese or German. So we got a fright of that. So there is an atom bomb, is one tension on our head. 

Then we started also developing ourselves. We started, of course, because we had to face life, and we found it was very difficult even to plough or to have food sufficiently for us, there was no shelter, and we had to have houses, and we had to move from places to places, we had to have cars, we had to have railways, and we have to have, say aeroplanes, and all these things of ideas of development came to us.

But the idea of God was lost. We thought of God. In the beginning, philosophy was the most important subject. All the students were taught first philosophy. Then, now economics is the most important subject. Just the opposite of that. What happened? [it has happened] That we started developing ourselves outside. The findings of the seers, the findings of the great incarnations the teachings of the great scriptures and all that were lost because they said – “If you have to find your joy and happiness you have to go within.” But all the development was outside, and we forgot that balance. Even in the name of religion, we did that. I can say about the Hindu religion you can take it, you can take about the Catholics or the protestants or take Islamic and all these people. Religion meant that you should have many people converged together, alright, then you must have a build. You must sit there, sing morning till evening or do some sort of (Shri Mataji is laughing) circus there, listen to some sort of a sermon morning till evening, and then contribute some money to the church or to a – what you call, –  Mandir –  Hindu temple, or you contribute to some other parasites who are living there in the name of God.

Now, to get money for these parasites, supposing you have to, say, donate one pound to your church. You have to earn at least, at least if you are not very miserly, at least a hundred pounds. But supposing you are a miserly person, then you have to earn at least a thousand pounds. So you must earn more. Even for the seeking that must be inside, you have to pay. You thought by going to church or by going to these temples or going to these places all your seeking will be finished and let us now develop. 

People actually neglected God completely. Nobody thought that we had to seek God. We have to find Him out. Not by these artificial methods, of creating monasteries or temples or big organisations or sanghas and all those things, but by seeking Him within! In which scriptures it is written that by monasteries you are going to get God?

I mean, if anybody had been misled, one can understand. But nobody said this – neither the Islam nor the Christians or Christianity neither the – nor the Hindus, I mean nowhere – Buddhist. If you see Buddha’s teachings, He has never said that you form a monastery and then just have more people and more. All the time what He said – “You have to meditate, and you have to meditate, and you have to meditate.”

Now, there is simultaneously. The creative power of God gave us, revealed to us, the knowledge of science. It is God who revealed to us! We cannot achieve it. He revealed to us this power. And why did He do it? I mean, you had much better off without it. Why did He do it? He did it because He thought you had no time for meditation. He thought it would be better for you to have these machineries to work for your job. He gave these powers to you – these powers were used by gods once upon a time, which came to you. And you started using them. Now, He said – alright, a housewife has to do too much work. Alright, she should have an automatic kitchen. Alright. She has got an automatic kitchen. Then? What does she want? She wants to go to her hairdresser. Then where does she spend her time? Now she has to go for a [unclear]. If there is some time, she [unclear] she goes to the pub in the evening. Then she is death tired, she comes home, gets angry with everyone and sleeps off. (Shri Mataji is laughing) That’s the end of our seeking! That’s the place where we reach when we are developed. I don’t know if you would call these developed!? Is there any maturity in this kind of behaviour? Have they ever paid any attention to themselves? To their self-seeking? Have they found out what is the self within, which is described by all the scriptures? Because the people who were in charge of scriptures just wanted contributions to the church or contributions to the ‘mand’ or contribution for some sort of a thing like that, or they will have a [unclear]. Have you got anything spare with you? Will you please spare for our church, say because we have to send some money to a particular place.

So the whole thing became nothing but a money-oriented business enterprise. I mean, God has nothing to do with money, I must tell you that very frankly.

God is something very different. He created us, he evolved us, and He wanted us to be a little steady about it. The way we jumped into these things. The way we run after these things, we have become so materialistic now. The matter is sitting on our heads. We cannot do without many things. I mean, you could leave much more simply, without complicating yourself. But we complicate ourselves because we are developed.

Now! So, I create say, I create more cosmetics. So I must have [a] beauty contest. So, I must also create a diet for ladies because they must have a particular weight and something. Why? Every woman should look different. Then the sizes are given to you, you must keep this size, that size, that size, and everybody working labouring hard to be that. (laughter)

Same with man. It is not, I mean, I would say a man could be very foolish if it comes to that kind of a thing. So it worked out this way. The whole development became nothing but stupidity. The way the people are engaged in different things very seriously sometimes, you know, you feel you are in a lunatic asylum. Which is more surprising how we are so much bothered about things which have no priority in our evolution.

Now, how God has created problems for us, we should see here, it is very clearly shown. This side is the sun, and that side is the moon. Now the moon as I told you is responsible for our existence because the moon governs our heart, and once the heart stops we are finished. So we know we are going to die. One thing, that is defined. [Does] Anybody have doubts about it?

What is most surprising, you forget it every moment. You see, that is what is the illusion part of it. We forget every moment that we are going to die, but we are conscious, in the subconscious mind we know that we are going to die. And on the other side, He has created another problem, [that] is to give us the sun. So the sun has created the time. We know, it’s a limited time. You have to sleep in the night. You cannot work in the night. Otherwise, people would be working twenty-four hours the way they are mad. I can see that. And whenever you have a sun of that kind, I have seen people are quite funny, you know? You don’t know how to talk to them. They are [unclear]. You just can’t talk to them. If you try to put things on them, they just can’t understand because they are so overworked where the sun is {unclear, up] for such a long time!

So the sun He created here for us to give us time. So, the time and death, these two things were created for us to evolve. So, a problem is created. Now the tension comes from the first thing that people say to Me – “Mother, I can’t sleep in the night.” that’s it! That’s the problem. You cannot sleep in the night. If suppose you cannot sleep, what’s the harm? Why should you sleep in the night? What is the need for you to sleep? Because you think by not sleeping, you are not giving rest to your body. But actually, you cannot face yourself. Your head goes mad! It goes on speeding, speeding, speeding you don’t know where are you going like, I always say, like horse/horns, they are coming out and going all round the world, you don’t know where you go up? You are just lost, you see? And this has come to us as a result of our thinking too much. We think too much. We go on thinking, thinking, thinking, and this thinking has come to us like a, I would say you must have seen Charlie Chaplin’s picture, that – “Modern times” you see there was a man who was fixing up something on a moving thing, and he used to fix it up and that belt use to move in his front like that fast, and he was fixing very fast. So even when he stopped fixing, he used to go on like this for a while, you see. (Shri Mataji is laughing) poor thing. The same kind of inertia works, you see, and the mind starts too much of thinking, too much of planning, too much of this. All these, have landed you in difficulties.

Now, we would say, where did we go wrong? First, we did not understand what was the purpose of religious bodies, or we can say what was the purpose of religion which is the sustenance within us. The purpose of religion was to stabilise you. To stabilise you. It was just to make you a human being and then to take you beyond. Like, as we built a nice, beautiful aircraft then we have to take off. And when the plane is perfectly alright, then we take off. But supposing we built an aircraft and go on building it, then we go mad! We have lost the purpose. And this is what happens, this is what happens with our own mind, that what we were doing, I mean, supposing we want to build this building. Alright, we built a building. Now use it! You have to come inside it. You have to sit here, and you have to use it for some purpose. After all, why have you sustained yourself? Why have you got your human being personality within you? For a purpose. Now you have to ascend, you have to go higher than that. And this is the point that we lost in our so-called ‘developing’ ourselves. And we had gone to, really, too stupid levels.

If you want to look back, you will be amazed that you were much wiser about fifty years back. So, in the result, now I would say, there are two types of countries as you know, One are developing, and the other are developed. So, the developing (countries) are following you up. Now you have developed, and you are realising it, and you are frightened. You’re really frightened about it because by thinking, by your rationality you have realised one thing that you have gone wrong somewhere, because what is lost is joy. Nobody is happy! Why did you develop? Nobody seems to be happy! Today this, tomorrow that. You are going purchasing, shopping, coming home tired, again you are going purchasing something, coming home you are creating this that – chairs – and tomorrow that, and nobody seems to be happy! The human relationships are the worst among all the animals of the world. Nowhere in the world, you will find such horrid relationships and everything as in the human relations. 

As, for example, I was amazed and shocked – that, I heard that in this country, which is regarded as a very symbolic and a very wise country, children are killed every week! Two children are killed by parents by [unclear, bartering]! Just think of it! Why? Even a lioness carries her children to seven places with her sharp teeth? I don’t know how she holds them, their necks, and how she manages [them]. And it has been openly said. The stupidity of the whole thing is that I have heard so many people saying, even on the TV I have heard saying, that – “is not natural to love your children.”

In human relationships we have lost everything, we have lost the significance of love. We had cheated ourselves all the time. We have lost our genuineness, we have definitely lost ourselves somewhere, and we are so afraid and frightened of each other. While, do you know, all of you are the most beautiful flowers that God has created?

Only after Realisation when the vibrations start coming from you, the fragrance, then the other says, they enjoy it – “Oh, Mother it’s beautiful! Come and see, come and see, this gentlemen, how nicely the vibrations are coming.”

That is possible only through your spontaneous evolution. And everyone will be seeking it, if not today, tomorrow. So, why not sort circuit it?

For example, my son-in-law is a very fine man, he is a very religious boy, and he is a very good person, I must say, he is a very good person, and he is very dharmic and balanced. So, he asked Me – “Mother, is it necessary that we should really go in for this Realisation? Is it necessary? I said; “It is, absolutely!” Because this is the point where you have to know your wholesomeness, your harmony, your balances. You have to relate yourselves with the whole being!

Supposing you avoid today because you feel alright with yourself. But you’ll come to be next life. Then into the next life. So, why not sort circuit it? Why postpone it? When it is possible. And I am sitting with you in this household and still you do not want to have it so, what should I say to the human mind? I mean, otherwise, he is a very wise man, he is very sensible.

But, the common sense is missing. The common sense is, [that] we must get it! We must have it! But the conviction of this has to come from [an] inner search. I cannot force you –  that, ‘you come along and have it’. I can feed you, but I cannot digest your food. Even if I do that, I cannot enjoy it. You have to enjoy it. It is cooked for your enjoyment, it is given to you for your enjoyment. I can put a little sweet words and I can tell you a story. That you should take it. But you have to enjoy, your tongue has to enjoy. You have to experience it. I cannot experience for you because I’m in that experience Myself in complete joy. I have no problem. What I want you should have that because the whole creation, the whole historical evolution that has taken place is for this today at this moment to have that. It is too noble, it is too noble and that’s why those who have been trying these tricks with others and saying that – you can pay for it. I mean, I do not know, how can you accept such a proposition? You cannot! It is an evolutionary process built into you. That’s why is ‘sahaja’. ‘Saha’ means with, ‘ja’ means born. It is with you! The whole system is built into you! It’s all there! And the Kundalini is the one who is going to give you the Realisation sitting down there! You cannot do anything about it! All kinds of absurd things they teach you, and how do you accept them? Because you are stupid.

For example, somebody says – by becoming necked and dancing in Oxford Street you will get to God. I mean, how could you believe it? But, there are people who believe in such nonsense. You cannot!

There are many people in India who all the time [are] taking god’s name. God has run away from India because of that, or by doing something, by organising something. How can you organise God? It is an evolutionary jump which has been told to you that it will happen.

Even Kahlil Gibran if you read, today I was reading, he has said: – “All these will be brought to you one day, and you will be explained and convinced of it!” So many people, – a person like Kahlil Gibran, has written! He was not a prophet. Prophet have said it, alright. But he has said it. Lao Tzu has said it. All these people had been saying that – “a day will come when you all will know, all have to know because that is the way it is!

If one person knows, supposing I am there, what’s the use? But if many will know, then only it will have its fulfilment! And then only you will have your fulfilment, that you become a hollow personality. Absolutely a hollow personality and the dynamic starts flowing through you, that is divine love! When I say love, people get a fright, because God is nothing but love, and the truth and the joy. You’ll be amazed that after knowing that, you will think so far – whatever I have known was nothing!

He has all the powers! Even a life does not move without His orders, take it from Me, and you can experiment for yourself! How He worked and how these things are. He has already made you a beautiful instrument. But even the people who are seeking God, when I take the name of God, they shudder. They would prefer to have Me tell them that – ‘stand on your heads, your bodies will be reduced in weight.’ This is not God! This has nothing to do with God!

Whatever is your function in life, whatever is your profession, wherever you are, you are going to be blessed. Now, there can be a mango tree, there can be another tree which bears no fruits, there can be another tree which has got coconut, and all these trees are sustained by the sap in them. In the same way, God might have made you differently, you are built up differently, but the same thing is going to happen everywhere, and you are going to get it this way. There is no other way! 

There is the germinating force placed in the triangular bone, and you can see with your necked eyes the pulsation of it. It is very difficult, you see, to convince people about it. But a simple thing is, if you are asking for it, you will get it. Be a little less complicated, and give up your this belief business. You see, after all, you have to believe in yourself! Actually, the faith is not in yourself! That’s the basic problem! By rationality, by thinking it will not work out, it is a spontaneous thing, with some people it works out, just like that! With some people, it does not.

Now if it does not work out, say for example some people do not get vibrations, maybe there is something wrong with them physically, or mentally, or maybe something is wrong with their background, maybe they have gone out of the way to spoil themselves, to destroyed themselves, their instrument, without having any knowledge about it. Anything is possible! In that case, I mean, you don’t have to bother about it. It has to be worked out. It has to be remedied, and it will be done! 

Now, many people who get cured, also with Sahaj Yoga, the other day I went to the doctors, and then they started saying, that – ’Is it only for curing?’ It is not at all for curing! It is a by-product. When the integration takes place, of this germinating power going up to this seventh centre. These centres are created within us by different elements. These are the essences of the elements and through this integrate all the elements within us, and this is the one which is the mind. Now the mind, the idea of mind, is very much bigger than what we know of. It means [the] subconscious mind, it means your supra-conscious mind, it means your (pre) conscious mind. And is the superconscious mind [unclear].

Once it enters into it and opens it out, the first thing that will happen [is] that you enter into the subtler existence of your being, which is the collective consciousness.

Now, to understand it I always give a simple example, is that; – you all are – say, are like pearls. And there is a thread going through all of you. But, you are not yet connected by that thread. Supposing, [that] if your threads are connected, then you can go onto your thread, and you can feel everybody else. Collective consciousness is to be felt and seen. You’ll be amazed that, if you get ten children who are Realised, here, and you ask them to find out what are his vibrations, or her vibrations, and you put, – closed their eyes and make them blind, that they cannot see anything, and then ask them – ‘where is the catch?’ they’ll say all of them will say – ‘this, this finger.’ Now this finger means the – this centre here, on the right-hand side.

All these fingers then start acting, and your whole body becomes the instrument. They start telling you – ‘Oh, it’s here, or it’s here, it’s here, or it’s here’ where it is. So, these are the seven centres we have got here – one, two, three, four, five, six, and this is the seventh one. These are the seven centres that I’ve shown here. This is the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh.

Now what are these centres, how [do] they do our character building, how [do] they act within us? What are their functions? Who are the deities on them? How to please the deities, is another subject on which I’ll be speaking next time. But now, if you have any questions, you can go ahead. But some people have told Me that – “Mother doesn’t allow them to ask questions, only the negative people ask questions.” Because the other day (Shri Mataji is laughing) we had two-three people who really took about thirty minutes asking Me questions, and when we went to them for Realisation – “We don’t want it”. So, I said – “why have you come here? You wasted thirty minutes upon [unclear], you see. So, I don’t know what to do, I can’t understand human beings, [unclear] (laughter)

So, if there is any, any question, which is sensible, you should ask because I don’t want, when the rising of the Kundalini starts you suddenly say – ‘No, no, no, I want to ask this question to Mataji.’ There is nothing to be asked because [unclear, the trouble is like this ] unless and until [unclear…] you are not going to [unclear …] you cannot rationalise it. You cannot understand it rationalizing. So, [unclear…] get up from here, it is sleeping there, it has to go up and come out. What question is it? You just think about it. If there is a seed which is germinated, now what question are you going to ask the seed [unclear, who is germinating]? It doesn’t need any brain to do that! It/which is already done that way. It has to germinate. What is the question?

Seeker: [inaudible]

Shri Mataji: [unclear] the centre one is the sustaining, the left one is the existence, – this is, we can say, this is the existence power, this is the creative power, and this is the sustenance power, the centre by which we are sustained. And the amount we are sustained, the amount we have [unclear, gone to] is [unclear] up to this point, but there is still a gap. [unclear] you have to still cross the gap.

So in our central nervous system, whatever we have achieved so far through our evolution, it shows here. That is the parasympathetic nervous system. But what we have to achieve [unclear, letter] is still a gap. And that gap is our further evolution into a higher personality.

Seeker: Are we [unclear…]

Shri Mataji: Oh, no, not. [unclear, it’s not at] all symbolic, these are the powers inside, that you can see that very clearly. Then, they start moving, you’ll be amazed to see the way they move in your back! You can see their movement, and you can see the contractions of your muscles also. You see? These are energies. You see, you do not see any energy flowing in through it, but these are energies, and [inaudible]. And ultimately, whatever we achieve through it is expressed here in the central nervous system, which is behind. Now this is – these express through the sympathetic nervous system, left and right, and this expresses the parasympathetic and the one which is the central nervous system by which we are aware of [unclear, things], you see, is enlightened later on when we are Realised, and then we start feeling it in our hands, in our fingers, it becomes a conscious achievement! We are conscious of it! Nothing symbolic. Is absolutely there, with yourself.

Seeker: [unclear, about vibrations] vibrations also know what actually …]

Shri Mataji: [unclear…], but I would say this way, that – when some people say that – Mataji Self-realised means [that] everybody thinks they have become Buddhas. No, they do not. You see, how [unclear, is it]. Buddhas’ life is very ancient. It’s not only [unclear…] was born, he was an ancient personality. In the same way, you are also all ancient. You have been seeking and seeking throughout your lives, that’s why you are worthy today.  Now, what happens is that you are reborn, you become a Realised soul, [which] means your awareness increases, your vibrations are coming, and all that. Some of you do not feel also vibrations, because if this chakra is caught up, [unclear, means] you’re smoking and all that. This chakra is caught up. There is a nerve [inaudible], central nervous system that goes to your fingers there, you see. [unclear, not so sensible] you do not feel it. But you feel relaxed, you feel alright, you might feel the Kundalini within you, you might feel the obstructions within you, where it is and all that. But you may not feel it in your hand, you see, because if this central nervous already is bad then you have to correct this [unclear, part]. 

But, when you are Realised, you must know – like a person is born a human being, he is a human being. But if you put it back, say with the [unclear…]. So, one has to mature, your Realisation is to be matured, that is the most important point, and [unclear…], because they start rationalising, and that’s the place where you fail. That’s why I had always said that Indian 

(Second part continues) That’s why I had always said that [the] Indian experience  is, [unclear, you  just again start]  rationalising.  And this is the greatest faltering point. You have to mature. And it is not like this, that, like a toothpaste, I say, “All right,  got this toothpaste,  your teeth will be shining.” It’s not like that, because you have problems; you are complicated. You must know you are complicated. And the Kundalini though it  touches, you see, [the] first time it will shoot up and comes up.  She is so happy that She has got you [unclear].  She is so anxious,  she is your mother, and She wants to give you realisation,  and She wants you to enjoy it.  You do touch it,  and it comes up, suddenly,  but again goes back.

Supposing you are a liver patient. Most of you are liver patients because of the pubs. (laughter)  If you are a liver patient, [then], poor thing, the Kundalini, your Mother has to go there, work out there, and you can actually see with your own eyes the Kundalini pulsating. You can see the pulsation at the liver.  Now, even if you are not a doctor you can tell anybody ‘you are suffering from liver’ and he will say ‘yes’  [unclear…] 

So many problems have come to us through our [unclear…]  menopause. Yesterday I heard some of the doctors [unclear] menopause. .   In India, there is nothing like menopause. No one knows what is it.  We do not have all these problems of what you call that generation gap. People don’t know what is generation gap. It’s a continuous effort with the birth? [unclear, you cannot generate?] (laughter) They also, , you see, and they do not understand what is adolescence, you see. They don’t  understand all this. 

This is all created by you, by thinking, thinking about,  you see, a person who has got a brain, you see, it’s a devil’s workshop. It must create  adolescence, it must create  this, that.

Now why the women here get menopause because they are so  insecure.  Old age; [is] such a horrid thing. I mean, nobody should become old in these  countries  the way people are. And everybody is going to become old, [unclear, don’t have any]  doubts about it! 

But the way we  treat our old people, I mean  the way the old people, you know, feel so  insecure, they are so stupid poor things  you know, they try to act like young. They are very stupid poor things; they have lost all, all sense of wisdom because they think it doesn’t [unclear].  We, the way we discard them, with the way we try to disrespect them, they started behaving like young people, you see?   I have seen [it].  Women of eighty years [unclear, still] talking like sixteen-year-old brides,  you know. [Unclear] I mean, I just don’t understand, what’s the matter with the women! The reason is that is how you can only live in this world.

So,  menopause is lost if the woman knows, ‘’I am a grandmother.” I am a grandmother. I can live with my age, and I am very proud of my age, of my wisdom, and that I know that I do better than my children. I’ve seen much more of life and can guide them much better, and I am at  my own age and in my own [unclear, mood],  and I am enjoying My age  very much.

Like in India, we have four types of, you can say, the experiences. And this is my period  of life [unclear]; it’s the time when both of us, My husband and Me, should really live together, [unclear, not/but] in a separate  way, look after our children. Or we should really go to the forest and live with our grandchildren once we are there. Now you don’t have that facility. But it automatically works out.

Imagine a sixty-year-old man talking of the marriage, or an eighty-year-old man talking of the marriage  or a thirteen-year-old boy also talking of the marriage. I mean, that is immature.  There is no growth. You should grow. You should mature, and people should respect that maturity.

Because of this kind of – all the complications, these lazy mind  [unclear…]  the overactive minds, have done. 

[Do]  you see this point?  Cancer is the disease of the West [and] not of the East. I mean, people don’t know what is cancer, at all. In the whole Ayurvedic Shasta, there is no description of cancer. How the cancer is formed? By over-activity of thinking. Diabetes is also because of this. Heart trouble is because of the same.  Either they go mad or they get a heart attack ‒ one of the two.  Those people who are sort of  ‘bear it up’, the oppression of the people who are thinking too much. Because the one who thinks, he always dominates, you see. “You must drive like this. You must go like that. You stand like that. You must sit like that. You must eat like that.” All the time worried about others, minding others, such a person will get a heart attack. 

And the person – apart – for us, you see, somebody gets a heart attack we are [unclear, going to see him]  I mean, if you see, he actually, he doesn’t deserve much sympathy,  [unclear, that] the person whom he has dominated, and got this heart attack because God is angry with him. But the other person, poor thing, the one who suffers too much gets madness and we, we laugh at mad people. Our attitude changes. Those who have gone mad have really suffered too much. And those who have got heart trouble are the people who have dominated. All ego-oriented people get heart attacks.

Actually, we have to ask forgiveness from God that, “Oh God, please forgive us.” We have to appeal to His forgiveness if we have to avoid heart attacks. Oh, but if I tell this to anyone who had a heart attack, he’ll give Me a heart attack. (laughter) I cannot say this to anyone that, “You are very ego-oriented, and you have become [unclear, routine], give up your  domination,  become humble in your heart. Become humble in your heart.” They’ll immediately get angry with Me because their aroused ego will come forward. They’ll say, “You are [Inaudible].” So, this kind [unclear …]  

I would request you to understand the complications we have in the West. Now, I am not facing an Indian [unclear, talking], all the problems,  that is Eastern, which is on the other side of the world.  Take it from Me.  Eastern people have another problem, a terrible problem they have, you see. And that is the different thing. Today I am facing you and that’s why I’m telling you  your  problem as it is which  I have seen, which I have noticed, on which I have worked,  and  gone into everybody’s Kundalini to find out what’s the problem of these days.  And that’s how I found out.

So, you have to humble down in your heart [unclear, to begin with]. If you have to evolve, really humble down.  I’ve seen even the priests, even the people who try to preach [unclear, something], they are so ego-oriented. There is nothing like love in them. In their love, also, they are  so much ego-oriented!  See, love is full of good [unclear, desire …]. It doesn’t emit.

 So, all these things are there, and the responsibility for them goes to our over-use of  ego. We have used it for our development.  Because of [the] use of ego, our ego has developed [unclear, so much that]  we can’t manage. But don’t try to fight your ego. If you try to fight, it will sit on your head. The same ego is important   because through this ego only you are tired. You are fed up with yourself, and you are not [unclear]  If there was no  sufficient ego, you would not have been [unclear, seekers of truth].  So it has helped you.

 Now you are going to manage it and it can be worked out. Not to hate yourself, because you have been egoistical. Because the another type would be –  we have some people who are another type, they are  worse!  They are all the time crying and weeping, “Mother, I’ve committed this sin and that sin.” So going from this, this extreme to that extreme  is not needed.

I’ve known many people who come and tell Me, “Mother, how can You cleanse me? I am such a sinner.” “Now who are you? You are coming to Me,  and if I am your Mother, then I will have to worry about doing all the cleaning for you.  You just keep quiet.  Don’t you worry about anything.” But still, they go on. They write letters after letters to Me, such as big letters saying what sins they have committed.

Now what am I to do with their sins?  It’s finished and gone, because the sins are on this side, all of them, so-called sins which are all forgiven. They are to be forgiven. God is very forgiving.  He is the ocean of forgiveness. He forgives you. If you ask for forgiveness, He forgives. Even for asking, He forgives. Then why [unclear…].  This is one side, [which] is this side.

The another side [right] is this side, is where some people [unclear, get] very much egoistical about it/things, and the another side [left] is where you feel very [unclear, guilty] . Both sides are useless.  The extremes are to be avoided, just surrender.

Then you are in the centre and the whole thing opens out, the ego and superego,  ego and superego, both of them are sucked inside/in this. And you become the whole [unclear…],  and you feel the beauty of your own being which is nothing, but it’s joy,  truth, and  [unclear, much],  just love. And then the love [unclear, starts showing]  – these vibrations  are nothing but [unclear…]  You touch anybody, he [unclear, feels…]  If you touch anybody, he feels, he feels the love, you see.   You talk to anyone, he feels very happy about it.  And like that, you will be able to change this world, this society which has to get all its transformation into a newer society in which you will have no race, no religion – so-called religions ‒ no dividing countries.

God never made all these nations or anything. He just created this earth, just that. Then we, the great thinkers, you see, we wished  to divide  this world  into different lands/maps, and then we call this, as India, that as England and that [unclear, all]. And then very nicely, with all our thinking,  we started fighting. Then we had wars, you see,  what [unclear, wise people…] 

So, the best thing is not to worry any more about that part and not to blame yourself. Now I know there are some people who [unclear …]  feel guilty, very much more guilty,  but there’s nothing to feel guilty about.

Both things are nothing but extremes. You have to just take your realisation  and you have to be yourself  This is a very simple thing. Now…

Seeker: Can I ask you a question, please? Can I ask you two  questions, please?

Shri Mataji: Yes.

Seeker: First of all, one has nothing to do with the other. The  first one is that You’d like me to get realization I’ve seen and You mentioned so.

Shri Mataji: Yes, of course! 

Seeker: Now, I would like to think for a while that people must be at different stages of realization at the moment. People must be in different stages of spiritual consciousness. Therefore, is it possible for them [unclear, not to feel, to have visions about that but not to be aware of it?]

Shri Mataji: Not to be…?

Seeker: Not themselves to be aware of the  state of mind.

Shri Mataji: There are many realized souls like this in this country…

Seeker: In other words, yes….

Shri Mataji: There are many realised souls in this country. You see, I have seen many realised  We had one sitting  [unclear…]  he is a realised  soul. And, – but, you see, these realised  souls are suffering from one problem, I must say [unclear…] who knew of the world.  But, there are some people, who did suffer from this problem. 

There are realised  souls, and they are different types, and they are aware of it that they have born  realised , and they are [unclear]. But they do not [unclear].  They touch somebody and the person gets cured. So, they think this is some spirit  has [been] cured.  Or they do not know how it worked.  They don’t know what they have done. They have no idea about what is inside them, or how it has worked. They have no idea.

I mean, there are two types of curing, curing people also. One type, who does it  with the spirits; it’s a wrong thing. Hypnosis and all that.  Another type is by this power, only they have it.

There are many realised  souls in this country, and many realised  souls are born in this country. This is a specially blessed country, I must say that. But the problem with them is that they do not know anything about [unclear]. They are just aware that they are different from others, you see, they are a different type, everything,  they are awakened people,  they are aware of it. But they are not master of the knowledge, you see?

Seeker: Exactly.

Shri Mataji: So, the thing is that they have to  master. They have to know each and everything. And I am going to tell you all the secrets of it. Everything I am going to tell you, so why [unclear, not]? It’s a very [unclear, great privilege]  that you should know what you have got, what is your property, [and] how to deal with/do it. You are naive about it. So, the whole knowledge has to be told  to you  how is to be managed  that’s why I am here. 

And there are many like that. But they have a problem, as I said was  that, that you see, they got this Self-realisation  without  knowing Me.  Very hard for them to believe that  I can really tell them something, to begin with.  Secondly, when they were born-realised , you see, they  were different people from the society, most of them. So, they were attacked by the people. They were never liked by the people,  and people thought they were rude, different types, and all that, and  they were called  them, you see, mad people and all that.

So, they developed a cynicism. And this cynicism gives a funny type of reaction towards everyone, even towards Me.  I found out.  And they come round, but they first of all waste their precious energy [unclear, before they] come. So also, they have a problem  because of this cynicism, you see, and they, because you see, you develop a mechanism by which – cynicism is nothing but a mechanism ‒ by which you face the world. Then, when you come before Me also, you face Me in the same way. It’s a mechanism that is built in. So, I would say that for them, I am here, [unclear, for they are.  Actually, I really adorn them, adorn them, and I’m growing proud of them].   And they are here for this purpose.

So, [there is] nothing to feel cynic about this/things,  and you accept it in your mind [unclear…]. .

Now, what is the second question?

Seeker: The second question is that, as I always [unclear: used to…] 

Shri Mataji: No. There also, the same path is there, Buddhism. Now you see, Buddha, Buddha also had His realisation  through Sahaja Yoga only. His Kundalini rose, and he got His realization, enlightenment, everything, but,  Buddha is a different style of a personality which was created specially for this purpose, you see. He is the one who conquered  His ego [unclear….]  we should say on this side.  Because if you see, the ego is on the other side, you see. So, Buddha’s position is about here. So, He stays there and He is there.

Now Buddhist people, that’s a different thing  also, Buddhists are the same, Christians are the same, Hindus are the same and even the  – what you call – the Zen’s  are the same. All of them are just the same [unclear]  None of them are [unclear], none of them [unclear, has got his] realisation. 

There were many Christians who were realized souls. I’ve met  someone   and I could see that they were realised  souls, but they were ill-treated by these Christians who were ‘in charge’ of the Churches. There are Hindus who were realised  souls. Even, you see all the Shankaracharya’s, we have, are not realised, any one of them. . All the Shankaracharyas  are not realised,   except for one who was there, but he was taken out. He is taken out. You see, anybody who is a realised  is thrown out,  [unclear] because they are challenged. You see, these organizations are run by people who are not realised. 

So, I have not met one person, I have been to, say  I will tell you the name of the greatest of Buddhist you could think of – Panchen Lama,  and the another one is Dalai Lama. I have met both of them. They have been sitting next to Me and burning Me from both the sides.  Both of them are not realised!  They are possessed!  What can I  do? They are. But they wouldn’t listen  to Me. They think  that they can [unclear].  It’s not realisation! . [A] Realised  person  talks in a different way.  He says  that a realised  person talks in this way that he is  [unclear]  if he – say,  for example, like I can quote say Kabir. Kabir says, [unclear] he says that; [Hindi….] “I get twenty-five of them together and put them into one thread.” .” This is the men of pure knowledge and wisdom.  He thinks of the collective consciousness all the time.

But these people will say that, “We will know who is going to be the next Lama.” Who cares who is going to be the next Lama, you see, whosoever may be!  They see all these in  their third eye, is nothing but a devil  is telling them that  [unclear] not should be allowed.  Do you know that [the] poor country of Tibet is exploited  completely by these people. They live like lords, and today  they are [unclear…]  And you’ll be amazed, sometimes [unclear], you see.

So, keep yourself open. I am just telling you [unclear]  these Buddhists can be quite dangerous, as dangerous as any Hindus, or Muslims or anyone,  [unclear…] I am telling you,  you’ll be amazed! 

The other day we had a girl from Italy and there is a Buddhist who has come to Bombay/Norway… He wrote to them that, “We do not  touch  you, [unclear, but sitting]  on a marble floor. So, you put a marble floor for us.”  Imagine! ,  Poor  ascetic who was willing to have a marble floor. Ascetics should be able to sleep on the streets. They must have a marble floor! So poor these young people, you see, in the foreign,  in the Western countries, where the parents  don’t give much money [unclear].  They worked hard for one year and collected money to [unclear, make] a marble floor to  this horrible parasite  [unclear]. And what did he do, do you know? He makes them bow to him one thousand and [unclear] times,  one thousand and [unclear] times.  And one of the  persons [unclear…] because he said [unclear]  This is what we have to know. 

But how will you know if they are true or not? Not by any,  by their talking. They can talk very big. They can be very great speakers, you see, the way they  [unclear]. But how  can [unclear, we know if they can] give you realisation , or whether they are true or not? And for your [unclear, benevolence] and for your [unclear, growth/good you take your realisation  first and then [unclear]  Do not criticize Me because I am telling you this. I have to tell you the truth!  I am not here for any election.  I am telling you the truth, and you will know the truth yourself when you’ll be realised  when  your vibratory  awareness will [unclear]. Immediately, you’ll know.

Now, I will give you a simple example. My granddaughter, she was  about five years of age, and she was [unclear…] with her father and mother  and there was a lama sitting there with his head was shaved and with, what you call, a maxi was wearing and was sitting down. And everybody was touching his feet. Even my son-in-law went and touched with my daughter also touched his feet. 

Now, this girl couldn’t bear it. [unclear…]. She went to this [unclear…]  She said, “What do you mean? Only by shaving your  hair and wearing this kind of a dress, you cannot make others touch your feet. You are not a realised  soul.” Five-year-old girl [unclear…].  And it is only possible if you are really realised,  and you have full conviction. Even a small little child, who is a realised soul,  [unclear] say what is catching in you. You have seen that little girl we had the other day, She was telling Me everything.  “This is catching, that is catching, that is catching”; even My  two-year-old little granddaughter, which is,  [unclear…]  So, you become that in Sahaja Yoga.

Now do not decide because you see here the problem is Christianity was a headache for  people. They realised  that Christianity was nonsense, and these churches were nonsense. So, they took to any –  that they want  Buddhism, they took to Hinduism, they took to another “ism”. None of these “isms” are [unclear]  Take it from Me. All of them are nothing but organizations, just like your church. Some of them are even worse, especially the Hindu temples where you can go and purchase Ganges.  If you have to purchase Ganga in India, you will [unclear]  Now,  what do you say to that? The Ganges River was angry because of that [unclear]  Horrible people, I tell you. In the name of religion, in the name of God, they have [unclear] 

We have one gentleman here; he was going to a lama in Tibet. Where is he from?

Sahaja Yogi: [unclear]

Shri Mataji: He was beaten up by them. They talk of love; they’ll beat him up. They had some priests; they are sadists, I tell you. And then he said, “I had no money. So, they, they used me for beating up.” Very nice. “They said, ‘Those who have no money should work or should accept beatings, or those who have money should give money’.” Is this Buddhism, by any chance? Have you done any [unclear: restriction]? Actually, you’ll be amazed, in all these organizations Buddha Himself is angry, and He is going to come down on them. With all these organizations which run after Christ, Christ Himself is angry with them.  He will not bear!   Now think of yourself; now you are a gentleman. You think like this that supposing you have propounded  something and the people are doing just the opposite  of what you have propounded.  Then how furious you are going to be? In the same way, all these great beings  are [unclear, angry].

So, for every open-minded man, it is necessary to forget  and forgive only.  Just forget it.  If I had seen any sense in anyone,  I wouldn’t bother.

Now you’ll be surprised [saying that] Zen is such a great thing. Zen is nothing but meditation! Is  Sahaja Yoga only!   If you read Zen –  but, there were only twenty-six kashyapas, only twenty-six realised  souls. But the Zen, the head of the Zen I have met, and he is not a realised soul.  Now what should I do? Should I not care for the people?  If they were realised,  I would have really gone and [unclear, claim on them]. 

You wouldn’t believe it, but I have gone to see realized gurus.  Seven miles I have climbed. [unclear]. And I have met very great people, but they are hiding themselves. They do not want to come to the cities, even to the villages they are afraid.  They do not want to be gurus because they think you will crucify them. If you have crucified Christ, you  don’t know what you are going to do. Already they have suffered.

These are all money-making propositions, and they  will be surrounding the cities, maybe.  But, some way [unclear…].  So, only I was  ventured to come round  and tell the people,  and I would say you stand by the truth. You  find it out!  Do not deny it because I am saying this, but you just find it!  You just find it!  It is for your experience. Because why are you a loser for anything?

After all, you are not identified with Buddha. You are not identified with Buddhist society or any society. You are identified with your Self [unclear…].  Achieve it for yourself. You have to achieve it for your own [unclear]  and do not identify with any organizations whatsoever. We are not going to finish ourselves  for anything like that. Because supposing, I agree you must have spent a lot of time/your own time with that/them. Doesn’t matter. [unclear, You are not going to miss it]. That’s a good experience. When you’ll get another Buddhist society, [unclear, may  you’ll not like too much]. Buddha, if you know, you’ll become an expert also]. 

Seeker: I am not, I am not, I’m not. I am not a believer in Buddhism in particular [unclear: I guess.] Just it so happened that I told You about it. [unclear:  I’ve fallen apart. But I actually see the nonsense and agree with these things.]

Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, and now you will know Buddha better. When you’ll be realised , my child, then you will know Buddha. Unless and until you are realised  you will not know Buddha, what are His visions. You would not. To know Him [unclear].  It’s a fact, I would say.  Without  realisation,  actually, you see,  the mistake was,  all the people who came on this earth before Me, never knew that you were not even [unclear, awakened].  That’s why they said all these things to you. If they had known that you are not even awakened, they would not have propagated these things , because the whole thing becomes a drama for people who [unclear…]  This was a  big mistake and that’s why, you see, I say this in My human realisation  that is helping Me [unclear, a lot]. 

Seeker: Just one question that [unclear: I have to make that  I would like if it’s possible to ask You] that as far as what you said about realisation  and also about enlightenment, which is the same thing,  and the question is this: “How  should an enlightened, what [is] the, an enlightened person’s lifestyle when a person becomes realised … ”

Shri Mataji: When a ..? 

Seeker: When a person becomes realised  …

Shri Mataji: When a person is…

Seeker: Enlightened …

Shri Mataji: You see, that is…

Seeker: Then what should his lifestyle be? What, what sort of person should he be [unclear]  should he be [unclear, behind]  in this situation?

Shri Mataji: You see, the behaviour automatically changes. I will give you an example. We had a doctor; he’s not here. He got his realisation  by another doctor, who gave him realisation  and [unclear]. All right. He’s there, all right, he’s there. So, now, he gave realisation  to a doctor and this doctor came [unclear, in the worst condition] because I must say he must have been a great seeker in this life, and he was a genuine person but out of fashion ‒ he was doing lots of things ‒ and so he said, “All right, let me go and have a drink.” You see,  he went to have a drink and when he took one sip he started vomiting.

You see, the, your religion is enlightened, and you just do not feel like doing it. And he just [unclear, gave up/them]. Then he said, “All right, let me have a girl with me.” Because there’s a fashion; you must have a girl every day out. It’s like another parasite, you see. Every day girl you must take out and give her free food. I mean, it’s all nonsense. If you are earning your money honestly, why should you waste this money with/on such people? But it doesn’t matter. He took a girl and all that, and he took her down there. And he said, “But inside  I felt so funny with her.” And I just said, “You just get out from here, and I just can’t bear it.” And he just gave it up,  you see.

So, what happens is that the whole religion gets enlightened.  We do not [unclear, waste any effort, there is no temptation of it.  As far as I am concerned, I can tell you this one, that I do not rationalize anything. I mean, I do not  know what is  to be wise and what is to not be wise.  But what, My stomach itself is like this.   It automatically works, you see!

Supposing I have to meet someone, I go to somebody’s house. Now I feel quite funny  inside this house  [unclear] in the stomach, and then I found  out that this man, [unclear]  And then I found  that he is very, very [unclear, cruel to his wife…] 

So, you see, you don’t have to rationalize it. Your whole being becomes so sensitive, sensitive to spiritual,  that gives you that [unclear.. ] like Christ was, [unclear, just see] His  example, that somebody touched Him  and [unclear]  Right and wrong, is the  sense that you can [unclear, know]  only after vibrations. Like a man like Christ, you should imagine standing by the side of a prostitute, and defending her. It’s only possible for a person who is a realized soul [unclear,  is a fact]. Otherwise, whatever you know, right  or wrong, is relative. Absolute right and wrong can be known only after realisation.  That’s why I say, deep in meditation and enlightenment your whole being becomes sensitive.

Now, I never told the people who were taking drugs to give up [unclear, as it is wrong]. They just did it. Because you start enjoying yourself. There is one, that comic book he gave me. Which one is that?

Sahaja Yogi: [unclear]

Shri Mataji: Ha, in that there is a character who is a realised  soul. You see that. That’s one realised  soul in that book. And his behaviour is different from the rest of them, you see. And there  you can see a realised  soul. I could see that one there and very enjoyable  realised  soul [unclear, there was]. You see, so  lifestyle  of a realised  soul are different [unclear…]. 

Seeker: What a realised  soul must do then  if he finds work in some place of work which is, which is under someone’s position that he is asking you to do something unspiritual, some work which is not Christian or not right. Means, should that realised  person…

Shri Mataji: No, he would not do that, normally. You see, but somebody…

Seeker: He would not do that.

Shri Mataji: No, he would not. But what happens, I’ll  tell you. It happens like this, I would say, that – supposing you are a realised  soul, now, and you just don’t feel like doing now. ,  But  you just try to do it, because you have been doing it, you just try to bend yourself.  Soon after, you see,  that practice that you are doing, you may lose your vibrations.  That’s the punishment: you lose your vibrations! 

I have, I have someone  – Sheila has come? Where is she? We have one girl here. She is naturally very good and she got her realisation.  And then, just out of curiosity, she went to one of these horrible people.  [unclear…] just standing and dancing [unclear…] .  She also went  and did like that.  She lost her vibrations. When she came to Me, she failed  at My feet and I saw the whole Kundalini wobbling.  Immediately, I asked,  “Where have you been? [unclear…]  She is corrected.  But it’s so foolish [unclear…] 

Seeker: I would like to ask you, just this,  I mean, following what You’re saying it’s  quite [unclear: clear] having people who start drinking wine, etc. [unclear…]  I shouldn’t say they have served alcohol.  If you only have a very moderate drink, very, very moderate, so [unclear…]  I should say, which you serve with  lemonades with that, seven [unclear]

Shri Mataji: That goes out. You see, I will not say, “Don’t take alcohol.” I’ll say even, “You go to the pub”, but you’ll come back [unclear, very fast]  with a five hundred miles speed. I will not say, ‘’Don’t.’’ I will not!  I am not the person who  says, “Don’t”.

Seeker: That’s what I’m asking.

Shri Mataji: No. But you will just give up yourself, because it’s wrong, because it goes against your awareness. Even this much can go, this one also can go [unclear…] 

Now, do you know that your forefathers, they’re known in our country specially that Englishman is known by the  little thing moderate [unclear, he does]. Today, where are [unclear]  They were the pioneers of this generation.  They started with this. And their third generation is now all the time sitting in the pub!  So, who is responsible? The one who started with  moderating.  That is the beginning of the end.

Seeker: But they were very moderate.

Shri Mataji: True, they were very moderate, but that’s how the people have started. And there is no end to it. So why do we need it?

You see, truth has no compromise. But you don’t have to worry because you start [unclear, facing it]  You are so much drunk with  the joy [unclear, that you don’t want to drink]. I mean, you are so spirited. Actually, the trouble is, that the “spirit” is a wrong word for alcohol. Either you don’t use it for the Spirit that is Atma, or don’t use it for alcohol. I mean, you are so full of Spirit  that maybe that is the reason the ‘spirit’ word must have been used.  Because when people ask Me, “Why don’t you drink?” I said, “I’ve been – I am so much over-drunk, that if you try your drunkenness with Me, and I can [unclear…] 

Seeker: [unclear…] 

Shri Mataji: Aah?

Seeker: [unclear …] 

Shri Mataji: Yes.

Seeker: [unclear, Or we have gone wild]?

Shri Mataji: No, no. You see  because such a lot [unclear…]  Death is here. Because of death, you see, we know we have to die, all right? Because of that knowledge within us, we try to do something [unclear, better]. . Supposing  [unclear, we are eternal], then we would not [unclear, work].  All right?

(End of the second tape)

, [unclear…] you already have got.  Just put your hands towards Me, just like this, , in a simple way. Just like this. Put your both the feet –  now what is it in a humble way we have to get it for ourselves. This is our right. It’s our right to get it. Just take out your shoes. Now, if I tell someone –  ‘take out the shoes’, people have an objection.  You should not, because this is just – we are earthing ourselves. [unclear] Mother Earth,   you just put your hands towards Me.  

Now, those who are – have no thoughts in the mind please [unclear], who have no thoughts.  And those who have cool breeze in the hands  [unclear, should know] they get their realisation.  They are realised. Enjoy yourselves. Close your eyes and enjoy yourselves. It is the greatest moment of your life. Those who are [unclear]. 

Have you got cool breeze in your hand? Cool breeze in your hands? Have you got it? No? All right. Just put your hands towards Me. Close your eyes. Enjoy it, enjoy yourselves.  Just enjoy it. Just enjoy yourselves. [Unclear.] And you do not think about it. It should work. That is the thing you must have. You must have it, that’s  your right to have it. You have been seekers. You have been seekers for ages. You must get it. If you haven’t got it, doesn’t matter; we’ll work it out. We’ll work it out, definitely. Close your eyes. Enjoy yourselves. Sit comfortably. Sit most comfortably. [unclear, This is the point in it]. You must sit very comfortably and enjoy yourselves. Just enjoy. Put your hands on your lap like this. [unclear, you have got also].  Next time I will tell you what happens after realisation.  [Unclear…] Close your eyes, just close your eyes. [unclear…]

Shri Mataji is working on seekers.

Some of you might find that, I did something which people shouldn’t [unclear…]. Otherwise, close your eyes and  just enjoy yourself. [unclear…]   you fine/find?

Shri Mataji: I said those people who get flickering  in their eyes when they close them can keep their eyes open. Those who do not  have the flickering in the eyes, keep them closed  because there’s a physical thing that happens [unclear…]  more chance to rise.  It’s a very smooth line. . Some people do not feel at all how it works out, but  suddenly they become  silent, and the cool breeze starts flowing. But as I said it, this is an experience that comes to you  spontaneously,  [unclear, then] have to stabilise. [unclear, practise the joy] you have to understand [unclear, fully]. 

Can you close your eyes? Are you getting cool breeze? Close your eyes. Close your eyes. Close your eyes. It would be a better idea.  

Are you all right? [unclear, or not …].  Just pay attention to yourself [your Self]. Just enjoy yourself. Put your attention to your heart. Enjoy it.y Close your eyes. Do not pay attention outside, anywhere. This is the time for you to pay attention to yourself. You have paid too much attention outside. Put your attention to yourself inside. Please, put your attention to yourself inside. Use some more [unclear…, you keep your eyes closed for a while].

[Inaudible]

Some of the Sahaja Yogis have to get up to give seats to [unclear, the people who are] coming. Now, there are some people who are realised  through Sahaja Yoga, and they can come and test you  because those who are realised  are to be tested again, and that’s how you will know whether you are realised  or not. And then you are realised  then you can also see for yourself and all that. Please put your hands towards Me like this. Rustom, all the other people also have [unclear, see them]  Please let them come.

 Now, if you could sit in any of the seats and  don’t you worry. These people will just come and see  because from their hands the vibrations are going, and they know how to manoeuvre it, and they will also teach you how to do it. It looks a little funny for the beginners  to see that  they have to use, and move their hands, but from their hands, the vibrations are flowing, from all their fingers. But, they know how to manoeuvre and what is to be done. So you shouldn’t have any objection for that, which you will realise,  later on, gradually how it is done. Are you all right?

Seeker: [Inaudible]

Shri Mataji: [inaudible…] Those who have had gurus, please raise your hands. Those who have had gurus before. Some gurus, if you have had gurus, raise your hand. Some sort of a guru or someone. Teacher, teacher. Maharishi, all those who you have been to Maharishi also. 

Seeker: [Inaudible]

Shri Mataji: Why? Have you had anyone? Have you had someone? Teacher? Who? 

Seeker: [Inaudible]

Shri Mataji: Who? Now, have you got cool breeze in your  hands? Yes, that’s your, that’s your guru. (Shri Mataji is laughing) He is the one, you see, He gives you problems on  the right side, you see.  He is the one who [unclear…].  What about you?

(Dialogue between the seekers and Shri Mataji.)

[INAUDIBLE] (Shri Mataji is working on the seekers) (conversation among the yogis and seekers, inaudible)

Shri Mataji: (is laughing and is working on the seeker), now close your eyes … forget about that false guru. You are not…