Public program “We have to seek our wholesomeness”. Caxton Hall, London (UK). 24 July 1979.

Yesterday, I met a lady, and she told me that she was seeking God. I said, “What do you think of God, what are you seeking?” When we say we are seeking, do we know what are we supposed to seek, and do we understand how we are going to feel our seeking complete, that we have reached the destination? As last time, I told you that seeking has to be genuine, from a genuine heart, and that you cannot purchase, or you cannot put in effort about it. But today I would like to tell you what are we seeking.

Let us see how the seeking comes within us, from where? As shown here, there is a center called as Nabhi chakra, which is here in the center [INAUDIBLE], Nabhi chakra, which is placed in our spinal chord, and manifests the solar plexus which is placed mid- way under your navel. This is the center that creates the seeking within us. Seeking is only possible when something is living. For example, what is the seeking of this chair? It cannot think, it cannot move, you can put it here or you can put it on the street. You can smash it and throw it away, again use that wood for some other purpose or make a stool out of it. It has no seeking of any kind. Only when a thing becomes a living being like a ameba you can take a uni-cellular egg. It starts manifesting seeking because it is supposed to seek. Not the dead. So those who say we are not seeking are as good as dead. Those who say we are seeking are living and also kicking. The little bit if you understand that a desire is created within a little animal, called as amoeba, by giving him hunger. Just think of it. It has no brain. It has a just a small nucleus but it can feel it is hungry. It has to eat something to grow. It also knows it has to reproduce and then it starts seeking. It also knows how to take the food in, but it does not know how it digests. That part is not his job. Even for us just the same. So the seeking starts in a little ameba and the whole evolution is based on that seeking, gradually improving and improving the ways and means of seeking, while the desire is that of food only, alone. There is also another desire or, you can say, an emotion, in the smallest of ameba is a sense of preservation. It knows the dangers that can finish his existence. When this little ameba becomes a human being, in thousands and thousands of years, then the seeking is changed. In the beginning it starts, of course the food seeking is still there, that’s the basis, you must have food to begin with. Of course the methods are improved, changed, evolved for the seeking of food, but there is also a great understanding of how to preserve yourself and your clan. The clubbing starts from a very early age, even ants understand that. So they understand that we all have to club together, unite together, integrate together, if we have to protect ourselves. And this seeking of wholesomeness also develops gradually in the human beings and the expressions of that is, you can see, all our efforts to preserve ourselves and to be clubbed together. These efforts are expressed in our political and in our economic enterprises. Now in the human being a new seeking starts: is to have power over others. Animals do not seek power, they have. For example a tiger is much more powerful than, say, a poor rabbit. He is born like that. And a rabbit does not want to become a tiger. He does not try like every Dick, Tom and Harry would like to become a prime minister. But a rabbit would not try to be a tiger, he understands “I am a rabbit and I must develop my means of defenses and my means of offences by which I exist.” In the same way the tiger acts, he is aware of his powers and also he is aware of his limitations. And some of the animals also have a power of leadership in them. They become leaders. You must have seen some birds that they have a leader, one leader going and wherever that leader changes the direction, all of them change as if they are like the tail of that leader. In the same way, the same way that goes that bird goes, the leader goes all of them follow.

So, this also is expressed in human being in a very big way that there are some born leaders who lead a group of people to some destination in which they fulfill the seeking of that group. Now the seeking of the groups could be money, mostly it is. Now money animals don’t understand, this is the creation of human beings only. So, for them money becomes very important because it is their own creation. We had barter systems, but then we thought it is better to have some sort of a medium which will convert one good into another, so we start the money. So, the focus of man’s attention from food goes to power and from power to money. Sometimes if somebody has lots of money, then he wants to have power. It’s but natural. There is nothing wrong in it, as such. Fundamentally, it is a thing which is natural for human beings to run after money and then run after power or vice versa.

But beyond that starts another seeking, is the seeking of knowing why are we here? What are we doing here? What is the purpose of our life? Why God has created us? To what purpose, to what end or it is just a joke going around? Are we just foolishly being born, getting married, having children and dying like ameba? Or have we any other purpose? Many human beings do not go beyond money or health, they want good health. I mean animals don’t take any exercises as far as I know. But human beings can go to any extent to preserve their health, but for what? I mean, you may be a wrestler, for what? Just to fight each other? You might be the healthiest person living on this earth, but for what? You are just a waste. What is your use? You may be the wealthiest man going in the best cars and the whatever you may call it, all the so-called luxuries of life and material well-being, but for what? When such a question comes into our mind the new kind of seeking starts, which asks the question, why are you here? Are you here just to run in this rat race morning till evening, earning money and earning power and doing all useless activities, pleasing others to show off your money or to extract some money from others? Is that the aim of your life?

Now this is the beginning of the fourth enquiry, or the fourth dimension in your awareness. This enquiry is also the flowering of the same rudimentary thing called as hunger: hunger for spirituality, hunger for God, hunger for higher things of life. It starts within us, that I call is the genuine happening. In this seeking, we get confused, because by the time this seeking starts in you, you are already famished and finished. How? Because you are already conditioned by all kinds of nonsensical things going on. You may be calling yourself a British or a Indian or some sort of an Australian or I don’t know all sorts of things that people call themselves, but in the eyes of God, you are just a human being, You are, I mean you don’t have a tail to begin with, and you don’t have your head bent down like this you have your head upright. Whether you are in Africa or India, or in England or America, it’s just the same. As long as your head is up like that and you don’t have a tail (of course some people must be having, the way they behave), you are definitely a human being. And if a human being if he is evolved through various experiences of life and realizes that none of these experiences have really given him the fulfillment and the answer to his question “Why are we here?” then the turning point takes place in his life, and he becomes a seeker. Not before that.

Those who go to gurus and say, “Mother, will you please give a job to my son,” then you don’t know what to say, you should say to such a person, “Now my child, you are not yet fit, you are not yet mature to come down yet.” Or if you go to someone to ask for, say, a diamond ring. Or anyone says that I give diamond ring in the name of God, and you are quite satisfied with such an answer, then you are no good as a seeker, no good. Useless for Sahaj Yoga specially. Or somebody who says, “I will cure you” and for [SOUNDS LIKE curative] you go to someone – alright, the person may cure you, but you are no good as a seeker. Why should God cure anyone who is not seeking God? I mean, why should I repair this instrument if it is not going to carry my voice? Or else some of you, if you go to a guru, and if he tells you a story like this, that you have to pay me some money for this, because if you don’t pay me money you cannot be involved into this kind of a thing, you better slap such a guru on his face and tell him that “What do you think of me?” It’s complete indignity to your seeking. He wants to involve you through taking money from you. Can’t you see that he is insulting you by saying that you are such a materialist, that when you give me money then only you will be attached to seeking of God? Just think of it. All such arguments people give you and if you accept them and if you follow such gurus you cannot mature for seeking.

As you have to be genuine, you have to be wise to understand that you are seeking your fulfillment. You are not seeking money and diamond rings and these tomfooleries that are going on and you are not there to witness them and these foolish magical tricks of people, but you are going to witness the magic of God. Then in the seeking also you must know that if God is the universal being, anybody who professes that we are the chosen ones and nobody else can be a chosen one or he was the only prophet and he was the only God and because you belong to some organization, it is nothing but absurd fanaticism and ugliness. Do not deceive yourself. Please try to understand: self-deception will never be forgiven by God. Ameba, does he deceive himself if he sees the food there, does he? Or a lion or even a frog, it has such a little brain. It understand what it is seeking, Will he deceive himself? But human beings deceive themselves morning till evening. We have to seek God. We have to seek our fulfillment. We have to relate to that wholesomeness that is God, the primordial being. The whole of it, this is what we have to seek. You are created for that.

If you study a little fetus in the womb of the mother, you will be amazed that the whole of the fetus is looked after by the navel cord from the mother, and though all the portions of the fetus are not yet fully developed as to get connected with the brain completely from the very beginning, still through one channel it is fed, looked after, managed. Then the child is removed from the mother when the child is born, and gradually all the sensations and co-ordinations of all these different sensory organs and organs of motion and organs of automatic functions are created gradually, very gradually, as he starts growing. But once the connections are established, a human being starts acting. On his own the whole body acts together; it knows when it is pinched. Here in the finger the whole body knows that you are pinched, the whole knows about what has happened. The whole connection is established. It’s a living process, it’s a growing process which works out. But with human beings there is a very big problem. The biggest problem I would say that they are always identified with imperfections, with wrong ideas and only in the human being these things happen, that’s why one has to be careful. Dog can smell better than you do, and it knows what to eat, what not to eat. You don’t know. You don’t know what is a real guru and a dirty guru and horrible guru and a vicious man. You cannot make out. Somebody runs out of the jail, he wears a dress, comes to England, “I am the guru” – great, and thousands will be running. They don’t know and the more he has, the better it is.

But there is a way. God has already placed that within yourself. For your growth he has placed within you, only He is testing your genuineness but if you are so obstinate as to stick on to some misidentified nonsensical things you cannot work it out. Be free from all these things, open out yourself. You all have to be aware of the whole. You all have to get self-realization. Though by that, God will feel your fulfillment of His creation, no doubt, and He has to do it, He will do it, but He’ll have to work very hard. And still and still if you do not accept the truth, then the truth will be expressed, no doubt, but then, the untruth has to be destroyed. And at that time, those who are identified with untruth will be also destroyed. Before that, take heed to your wisdom and know what we have to seek? We have to seek our wholesomeness, which we have partially expressed in our political and economical and social clubs.

All this has to be integrated, all the great religions which have been [SOUNDS LIKE profounded] in the growth of human beings, which have substantially helped in the growth of human beings, which are the substratum of their living, has to be integrated in that habit. For example, I meet supposing a Hindu, then he says, “Mother, how do You talk of Christ? We don’t believe in Christ.” Now you are a very great person not to believe in Christ. Who are you not to believe in Christ? What do you think of yourself? What do you mean by saying that you don’t believe in Christ? Do you know it is blasphemous to say such horrible things about any great incarnation on this earth?” There are some who say, “We do not believe in Moses, or in Guru Nanaka or in Mohammed-Sahib.” Who are you? I don’t believe, I don’t believe. What is your belief? On what it is based? Why do you say such things? What do you know about them? Only by going to churches or going to these mosques or going to these synagogues. They are blind making you blind. What have you achieved but nothing but stark fanaticism? It’s a disease. It’s sickness. (I am not sure that I have closed the inverted commas in the correct place in the last paragraph. MG)

Just come in the Kingdom of God, and you will see that they are all seated there on the dais, they are all together and you like fools are fighting. Did they ever say that, for example, when Christ came did He say that Moses was wrong, did He say so? When Nanaka came, did He say that Mohammed was wrong? Did anyone of these great saints say so? Then who are you to denounce them? This is one of the greatest hurdles of so-called seekers. Then they are identified with their gurus. I asked them one question, “If you are so much identified with your guru, go ahead with them; why do you come to Me?” “I come to You, Mother, because I am suffering from asthma, since I went to that guru.” “Then ask him to cure you. Why do you come to Me? If your guru has given you whatever you wanted, why should you come to Me? If he is a real guru, I would see it written large on your face. I can make it out and I’ll worship that man who is a real guru. I will go all out to meet such a person and I will regard him as the greatest blessing for Me also, but they are very few and all hidden in the Himalayas or some places from where they do not speak. Nobody listens to them. They are very few. One of them tried to go to America; within five days he was back in India. He wrote to me saying, ‘Mother, very difficult.'”

Because you are identified with games, with playing games, you like people who play games with you. You do not like people who tell you the truth. This is it. You have to have it but you must know is the concern. How can anybody who loves you can tell you something that is detrimental or injurious or absolutely dangerous for you? They will not tell you, those who are fake will never tell you about anyone. They will say every thing is fine on the other side of the earth, till somebody genuine comes up. They are not going to say a word about it, take it from Me.

So in your seeking first of all your misidentifications must drop out. You are so misidentified with so many things, like people would say, “Why should we follow Christ – He was a Jew.” I mean, He has to be born in some place somewhere. And as it happens you have to belong to some religion somewhere. You have to be born in England or you have to be born in India, or maybe in Timbuktu. I mean, you have to be born in some place. So the rest of them say “No.” And those who live there also say, “He is no good because he was just born like us here.” They want somebody to drop from heaven. It is so funny. So for us, those who are genuine seekers, must open their mind fully and if you want to waste your time, go ahead; you go ahead with your gurus, go on wondering their marvels, giving them money, giving them your women, giving them your property, giving them everything that you have, getting sick, mad, ending up in lunatic asylum, I will not say “Come, my child, come to Me”. But even then from the lunatic asylum also if you realize your mistakes and come, then God is the ocean of forgiveness. But from the very beginning I have to warn you, all such people are wasting their time and My time. So please all such people who are still very much misidentified, please do not trouble Me with their arguments too much.

Because always I find that they are supposed to be true seekers like the lady yesterday and she started telling Me, “Have you read this book?” and “Have you read that book?” I said, “I would, but by reading that I do not find anything in you. You have read them, what have you achieved? Have you achieved anything?” Nothing. “Have you seen this guru and that guru and that guru and that guru?” I said, “Maybe, but what about you, what have you got?” She has asthma. One eye is blown off, she cannot sit, she has got a rigid body because she says she has rheumatism. She is actually possessed. And there she is a seeker and then she asks Me a question, “Mother, I am a seeker and why should God be so unkind to me?” “You did not use your wisdom, my child.” Even today, take heed to wisdom, and know that thy God loves you with all His heart, with all His soul whether you love Him or not. He has placed this seeking within you. He has placed all these instruments within you. He has placed all the things so beautifully that spontaneously it works in no time. But people are such, they come for Realization and if I tell them “All right, you come and sit near Me.” “No, won’t sit.” “You please take out your shoes”, “No, I wouldn’t take out my shoes.” There are many like that. Even if you tell them “Why don’t you sit down with both the feet like this because you will be relaxed, you see.” There are many more reasons for what I say, why I say so. But still “No, why should I do?” There are certain things which are very important for Self-realization if you want to have it. You better do that. The whole attitude should be of understanding, that here you have to take from Me something. It’s a gift for you, and there should be no obstinacy about taking this gift. I mean, that we do not do in normal courses. If there is a gift for us, then we do not become obstinate about it. Do we? Do the human beings become obstinate when there is a gift coming in? But only when it comes to God they wouldn’t even take out their shoes. It’s such a great thing you are asking for, which is the flowering of your seeking from ameba stage to human stage. In the human stage also thousands of years you have been seeking and today when you are at the threshold of it, why are you obstinate?

I say in Sahaja Yoga you get your Self-realization. No money is to be given or taken. As a by-product, you get your health alright. Of course, your material things also are all right. Many things improve as a blessing of Sahaja Yoga. But the real thing that happens to you is that you get self-knowledge. You get Self-realization. That there is light enlightened within you, and you start seeing yourself, your centers and the centers of others because you also get contacted with the whole, you get your wholesomeness.

This is what Sahaja Yoga has to offer to you and if you want to have that, please have it. The rest of it is just a by-product, because if there is a light you do not falter, you walk straight. You don’t say, “My legs improved because there were lights.” No. “My eyesight improved because of my light. Because there were no light there was a problem.” As soon as there is a light everything becomes alright and you start understanding the whole, you know how the whole thing is and you start walking straight and you know where to sit, and what is the chair and what is the person.

This is what you are seeking, then you are a seeker and you are a true seeker and you are to be blessed and it’s My job to see to it that you reach there. You get your own powers, not of your guru but of your own. And that you understand yourself you get your self-knowledge and the knowledge of the whole. But if you are not that, My children, I am sorry, you are still a baby in the seeking, you have to still grow more, and grow more, and then you come to Me when you are grown enough. Otherwise it’s a headache to work on a person like that, or to give them Self-realization or anything whatsoever. They are using sometimes Sahaja Yoga for curing people. You do get cured, no doubt. Even cancer can be cured with Sahaja Yoga. It can be. It can only be cured by Sahaja Yoga. That’s the point in it. But again it will come back to you. We cannot promise, guarantee anything. Unless and until you rise in Sahaja Yoga and become the master of Sahaja Yoga we cannot guarantee. You may get back the disease again.

Why should God not have a sense of giving for something as you have? He loves you, no doubt. He wants to give you because He loves you, but if you are wayward and if you are prodigal by nature, why should He continue to give you is a simple question that you should ask yourself and then ask for realization, you’ll get it. After getting it also there is a period of doubts because first you get thoughtless awareness, which is called as Nirvichar Samadhi. When we say awareness in the normal terminology, it means alertness to anything is awareness. But when we say samadhi it means enlightened awareness. You get thoughtless enlightened awareness. And then you get doubtless enlightened awareness. The stage between the two in some people is so little that they just are there. I have some people here who just got it and are there. They don’t pass through these two stages. But there are mediocre and there are also absolutely bullock carts I would call them, they cannot move with the time of the jet. In these modern times, imagine a bullock cart being pulled by a jet – big problem. But if you are of that caliber and that quality you get both the stages just like that. There is no doubt after that. But then there are some who get into doubts. I don’t know what they doubt here. They had the experience, they feel the vibrations coming, they see cool breeze flowing through them. They see it working on others. They see the pulsation of the Kundalini, the rising of the Kundalini. They’re getting better in health and everything improving. Still they are doubting and wasting their time. And everything is delayed, their cure is delayed, everything is delayed because of that. Alright, so we have here jet planes, we have here supersonics, we have missiles, and we have also bullock carts.

See, it takes lot of things to make this world, isn’t it? And so I take everything. All right. With all My love I engulf them. But I would request you not to slow your progress like that. What are you doubting is the question, that I do not want anything. If you are paying for something, then you should doubt it. You are not paying for anything. What are you doubting? What am I to gain from you? But still so many of them sometimes come and tell me, “Mother, now we are doubting.” I say, “Alright, go on, when your doubts will be over, you do come and see Me.” That’s how it is. I would request you to try to tell your mind that you have done all kinds of things. You have been to all sorts of gurus. You have been to all sorts of nonsensical books and you have been to all kinds of doubts. Now settle down for a while. Settle down. Tell your mind not to mislead you, and get it. This is your own; this is your own property; this is your own right to be there. So get it, and if any doubts are coming, tell them to wait for a while.
May God bless you all.

I don’t mind answering your questions at all. I would love to answer them. But my experience is when you tell them to ask a question they speak like possessed people. They have certain things, kinks in their heads and they come out with it. And they would not bother that Mother has little time to give realization to others, such a great thing has to be done and they’ll take out from somewhere something small and will go on harping on it and disturbing all the others and taking the time being very, very selfish. And then the quarrel starts which [INAUDIBLE ] to answer their questions there are some here who will say that I have too much patience with all of them. And I try to give all the answers, as far as possible, so I will try to answer. But if you are just fond of talking, talking, talking, then I am really tired, I would request you to get your Realization, settle down with truth and glorify your being because you are glorified by God, the Lord who has created you. If you have any questions you can ask but as I have said it be careful that you are not disturbing others and asking foolish, stupid, useless questions.

[The following was on my recording but not done by the transcribing team. MG]

Question: [INAUDIBLE ]

Shri Mataji: This is a very easy question, Madam, and I don’t think I should answer at this stage, why? Because this question you ask yourself and you’ll get the answer, alright?
Questioner: But I have got an answer [INAUDIBLE ]

Shri Mataji: Now see … Alright, I’ll tell you one thing, alright? The question is alright, this comes to everyone, when they see Me they ask such a question, but I’m little tactful, I would say, because when Christ said, “I am the light, I am the path”, what did you do to Him?

Questioner: INAUDIBLE

Shri Mataji: Yes, he said so, so what did you do to Him for that? (Inaudible reply from questioner) Alright, you did not but others did, alright? When Krishna said, “I am the One you should follow, I am the One you should surrender to”, what did you do to Him – did He tell anyone else? He just told Adjuna – why? (Inaudible response from questioner) Then what’s the use of telling you about it also? Let Me work it out, then you will know. It’s better you come in the light and see Me, alright? And see yourself. So, that’s what let us do because this is a question which can be answered in the light. Like you can say, “Is there a charge, or not?” (Inaudible reply from questioner) Alright … alright. Yes, now, as a guru is a guide to that God within you. To become that because that God in you is away from your attention. Your attention is not speaking to the God’s kingdom. Your attention is away from Him and this is a method by which the attention rises and becomes one with that spirit which is in your heart, which is knowing you, which is understanding you, which is correcting you, also guiding you and protecting you, but you are not there, you, the one you are today is your attention is not there and that’s why you are not yet collectively conscious. (Inaudible intervention from questioner) No, it’s alright, but your attention is not. See the difference! For example, my brain, alright, has its attention, say for example, on my finger, alright? But my finger has no attention on my brain. (Inaudible intervention from questioner) You see the reality can only become there by being there. (Inaudible intervention from questioner) No, you cannot, unless and until you become the reality. You have to become [INAUDIBLE interruption] No, then you see you are not there, you can see only see Caxton Hall from outside. When you come inside, do you see the whole hall? (Inaudible interruption from questioner) That’s true, but you have not become … you are seeing from outside, you are not inside. You have to enter in, that’s why. You see, you have not yet entered it. You are there, but you have not yet entered it. That’s why it is said you have to enter into the Kingdom of God. You have to be re-born. Your awareness has not entered into it. Once it is entered, then you’ll be amazed, then you will be able to feel everybody else’s centers and you will know what they are inside, where is the problem and you will know also where is the problem with this. (Inaudible intervention from questioner) Who? I don’t want to say that, I am very tactful, but there is something about Me, no doubt, which you will find out – there must be something … (Inaudible intervention from questioner) Alright? So let us have it. It’s true, there must be something, but I do not want to say something now – some of them know and you will also know it, and you will also know the whole thing, but gradually let it work out. (Inaudible intervention from questioner) Christ told His disciples who never believed it till He resurrected [INAUDIBLE ] and today I tell you anything, you will not believe Me, I do not want to make you useless, so you first get your realization and then you’ll know. First you know yourself and then [INAUDIBLE ] Let us have it now, alright? (Inaudible intervention from questioner) I know, yes, that’s why I said your attention is not there. Of course, no doubt about it. Yes, that much I must accept. I have to accept and [SOUNDS LIKE boast] many things, I know, but I’m little scared of that! Alright?

Shri Mataji: [speaks in an Indian language with another questioner] He has asked Me a simple question which is a very sincere question. He said, “How are we to believe there was Shri Krishna or Christ, and this and that?” That also is another very important question, is that how are we to believe that They were there? Was He, were They there or not? Now this is a question, which, o.k. isn’t it I don’t know tactfully if it is correct or not but I would like to tell you that these centers, all these chakras, have got all these deities in them about which I have been telling you. Christ is here, and Krishna is here. (Interruption) Now, just a minute, just a minute. Now, how do you know if they are there or not? Is the point. When you get your self-realization you will find that from your hand a cool breeze will start flowing. You’ll become that, then you will enquire how it has happened. It has happened because these centers (recording becomes inaudible in patches as Mother has probably moved away from the microphone to point to the various chakras on the chart) … top part of your head … here, at the fontanel bone area … and then you start feeling the cool breeze … After that, you’ll be amazed …