Talk to Sahaja Yogis, Italy, 1984, September, the 18th

Shri Mataji: Fumes. Like Fumes.

Sahaja Yogi: “Fumo”.

Shri Mataji: And it is such an absurd place. And there is, also very surprising that, every 28 minutes, in a place, water comes out of the Mother Earth, every 28 minutes. It shoots off, exactly after 28 minutes. It’s a very funny place and lot of sulphur, lot of sulphur there. Sulphur just bubbling out of, you find suddenly from somewhere there’s a hot water coming out like just pouring out water. Can you imagine such a place?

Now, Andes is another site. Andes is a kind that will give tremors, earthquakes. It will give lots of earthquakes and it has lots of gold also because it’s a right-sided, lot of gold and it will be giving lots of earthquakes. When it will come to destruction, it will be used as earthquakes. They will, it will act as earthquakes.

America is that whole portion, it is all Andes from top to bottom. And all that will be shattered by. So, these two forces will act more at the time of destruction. So, one has to be careful about it. Because, you see, Bolivia, say Peru and all these places, these people went from here. They killed so many of these people. So many of these races were killed completely. Then dead bodies were there. Killing is very bad because when you kill a person, that person cannot take birth and hangs in the air and becomes a bhoot. So, they have overpowered America. That’s why Americans are like that. You see, they killed all the people from New York to the whole of America, was all people who were aboriginals.

So, they have possessed them also. And in the same way in the South it’s happening. So, it is all, again, though it is right-sided but it’s supraconscious, all supraconscious things. So, they have to be very careful now. They have to take to Sahaja Yoga. And those who will be taking to Sahaja Yoga will be only saved. The rest will be destroyed. Because Andes will act as a supraconscious thing for destruction. And Fujiyama and all that, will have, not, they will have those, what you call? The volcanoes coming out.

Sahaja Yogi: Mother, I‘m terribly sorry, but the tape, we’re running out of tape. Would You just explain again the left side, the right side and the Himalayas? I’m sorry to do this to You.

Shri Mataji: Of what?

Sahaja Yogi: Just as You described just a moment ago, how the Himalayas is this and the two columns.

Shri Mataji: You see, you think of Himalaya as the central part, Kailasha,

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Sahasrara.

Shri Mataji: Yes, fontanelle bone. And this is the plate of the Ekadesha, all right? Now all the, even this [unclear] and these Alpes and all that is in the same.

Guido: In the same line?

Shri Mataji: On the right and left side, both sides. Kashia, Argentina we have all these on that, so it’s all Ekadesha. But, on both the sides, we have got Andes, and this side, we have got Fujiyama on this. Out of these two, the left-sided one is the Andes. I‘ve treated the Andes as left-sided actually. Because the sun rises from this side. And the right-sided one should be the Japanese according to Sahaja Yoga style. But in the thing, if you see, this is right and this is left.

Now, what has happened is that the right-sided people like Spanish and all that, went down there and killed so many of these people who were all right-sided too. So the whole thing we should call it as right-sided now. The Andes as right-sided. Because right-sided people will be punished by the right-sided defects and left will be punished by the left-sided defects. So, because the right-sided people have gone there and have killed the right-sided people, the right-sided people there have overpowered these people. That’s why the speed is there, and the Americans are, you see, like this all very violent all these things, because of that. Now all these things put together forms these, the Andes, you see, is there, standing, waiting for its chance. And when the things will be horrible absolutely, there won’t be any atomic bomb blast or anything. These, themselves will have earthquakes. Now, earthquake is the quality of Mother Earth. And she will assert through these. And on the right-hand side… Actually, it is actually not on the right-hand side, but now it’s the left-hand side of these Japanese what will happen… Because they were made into left-hand sided, because they were given these drugs, opium, this thing, that thing. So they became left-sided. Now, these left-handed people will be finished with volcanoes. There will be volcanoes. There will be typhoons, they’ll be finished. While on this side, the people who have been following these all wrong things will be finished with earthquakes. And all these places like, you can say, the west coast. The west coast of America is very dangerous because there were so many atrocities done by Americans. They cannot get away with it, so themselves they’ll be finished because they’ll become lunatics, mad and apart from that, the Mother Earth itself will finish them, part of it. 

Now on the right-hand side, I think volcanoes will be finished this way, at the destruction time they’ll be used…. But just now as far as now is concerned we have to see how many people we can bring out. If the number of Sahaja yogis increases in those areas, then maybe, that Mother will be pacified.

Sahaja Yogi: The same is written in the Bible, when God wants to come and kill the [unclear] Abraham perhaps asked to God, “but God if there is ten good people, what will you do?”, and God said “I will save them all”, and then Abraham asked, “but if there are 9 good people”, and God said, “ok I will save them”. And if it’s one good people, then God said: “Ok, I will save that town”.

Shri Mataji: Now we have thousands. But in the Bible, it is written only how many?

Sahaja Yogi: Hundred and forty-four thousand.

Shri Mataji:  We’re about reaching that number one hundred and forty-four thousand. Only. It is written in the Bible.

Sahaja Yogini: Shri Mataji, does it mean that the Last Judgement at the time of destruction will manifest in these forms, earthquake and volcanoes?

Shri Mataji: Of course, that will be there. So many things will happen and people will be killed and destroyed. Then they’ll be put to the last thing, they will go to hell. People will be sent to the hell. You see, what will happen on this Earth only, people will become mad, they’ll start eating feces, naraka, they’ll be creating for themselves. Now only the way they are following Rajnish, what are they doing? It’s Naraka. That’s how they’ll be punished. But those who are described now one hundred and forty-four thousand is a very small number.

Sahaja Yogini: Can I ask a question about those people who get killed, Mother? They become bhoots. Is there never any chance…

Shri Mataji: Difficult. Those who are killed might be, but those who are possessed. You see, what has happened that those who get killed are reborn again. And those who have been killing are also reborn. So there is a chance for such people. But those who are killed are possessing people who killed them. Why did they kill? They had no business. “Thou shall not kill”. I mean after all, if you do not follow one rule and regulation of your hopeless government, you are punished. What about God? He said “thou shall not kill” and you have killed. So, they should not be punished?

Sahaja Yogini: I was thinking of those that got killed, those who were killed, the victims. 

Shri Mataji: If they are reborn they will not, but if they are taking revenge, then how to save?

Sahaja Yogi:  And they can choose.

Shri Mataji: They can choose. If they want, they should take their birth, get realization. But they are trying to become bhoots. The idea of revenge should not be there. Now, you see, Indians have only this sense. How much Britishers have tortured Indians, you have no idea. I mean, I cannot tell you how much they have tortured. I can only tell you about my own family, that my father’s all houses, everything was taken away. We were living in palaces, we started living in huts. Cars, everything, all ornaments, everything of my mother was taken away. Only we had one big, mother had a big family gold thing we called [unclear], that’s the only thing that she had hidden, which she pawned and on that she educated us. To me, they have beaten, they have given electric shocks. They put me on the ice slabs. I was a young girl of 18-19 years, you see. To so many people they have tortured like this. Oh, they have tortured and tortured to such an extent, you have no idea. But raping, prostitution, everything they did to Indians. But Indians don’t hate them. They don’t hate them. They are very kind. If English go there, some English barristers went to India and the holiday was given to the high court. They are so respectful, but when English now, when the Indians, because they misbehaved and they brought so many Indians with them. Now they were given British passports and sent as slaves to East Africa to work there. But when East Africa became independent they had British passports so they came as Britishers. Now they are treated as immigrants in England. Think of it. Actually, they have only British passport, they have no other passport. And 80% of Indians are like that. 10% are students and 10% may be Pakistanis. Can you imagine? And see the condition of Indians in England, the way this English feel about them. So, naturally, one would feel very embittered with them. Isn’t it? But I have never seen any Indian criticizing English people. My husband says it is Indians who are responsible, they behave in such a manner, they wash their clothes, they hang them outside. He will always blame the Indians, they don’t know how to eat on a table, they use their hands, this that. Indians. Not embittered at all. They are the only people who have really forgiven. There is no embitterment and you know, in India it’s a law, unwritten law. I was on the censor board, that no film can be made against the English. Nothing. No film is made about our freedom, independence or about Gandhi. This is an Englishmen who made it. We were not allowed to do that.

Sahaja Yogini: … There was a big series, very popular series showing how awful British had been to Indians, which was on in England.

Shri Mataji: They always tried to debase Indians, to make fun of them. 

Sahaja Yogini: Everybody’s horrified, because we don’t know. We just read in the books. 

Shri Mataji: What is the name of the series?

Sahaja Yogini: It’s called “The Jewel in the Crown”. It is about the last days of the British Raj. And it is horrible.

Shri Mataji: I mean, what do they show there.

Sahaja Yogini: They show bestiality, they show absolute cruelty, beating some boy with sticks, accusing him of raping a girl that he never did. English, they show the English in a very bad light. Very surprising.

Sahaja Yogi: Good, its being at least exposed.

Shri Mataji: Somebody must have talked about it.

Sahaja Yogi: When we watched the film of Gandhi, in Delhi, when you took us to see that movie, at the half time, everybody walked out. About forty of the British sahaja yogis were just absolutely like stunned [unclear], they couldn’t move.

Shri Mataji: That is nothing, they have shown nothing, compared to what people have seen.

Sahaja Yogini: This series is much more brutal than that. Watching it was so hard. Horrible.

Sahaja Yogi: I heard about it.

Shri Mataji: And you see now, as they were saying there were no arches or bridges. Now, the British must have removed everything that was there. They never respected anything. Even now they have no respect for our culture, for our music, for anything. They haven’t got brains to understand. In such ego.

Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji, you were saying this afternoon that a lot of the culture, history and architecture and so of India pre-dates so much a lot of the west.

Shri Mataji: [Unclear] I mean, I told them that these people say they [unclear], but they have not seen what in India, we have something called as Ajanta Caves. Caves mean like palaces, huge and one stone, huge, for miles like that. I said, if we have learned from the Greeks why don’t the Greeks have something like that. They don’t have anything. The kind of art we have in our country, you don’t find it anywhere in the whole world, I think. This is how [unclear] but it is built from down upwards. It is the cave, you see, from the top down in ten centuries.

Sahaja Yogi, Excuse me, Mother, do you want me to translate for the people that doesn’t understand?

Shri Mataji: [Unclear] I’m sorry.

Sahaja Yogi: All the engineering, everything had to be calculated from… 

Sahaja Yogi: She’s explained that, what you explained today that we started from the root and then we go down… 

Sahaja Yogi: Like you were explaining today to this fellow.

Sahaja Yogi: You explained today to [unclear] today that we start from the root and then we go down, not from fundaments we go up, it’s just the same. It’s a India style. It’s a very clever. 

Sahaja Yogis speaking Italian.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Mother, but she would just like to ask a question about Masonry, but you were talking about Ajanta, and perhaps it’s better You finish… You finish Your talk.

Shri Mataji: … No, I am just saying that the Indians have got something about them, that they are very forgiving. There is no embitterness in them, they’re very forgiving. They don’t carry any embitterness in their mind. And secondly, they are very anonymous. You will never find [unclear] You will never find an Indian writing the name or anything. This is all modern. Of course, modern people, they  are westernised. But even now, go anywhere and ask them who has done it. Somebody, someone must have done. Very anonymous people and that is only because it is a very spiritual country. The whole tradition is of spirituality. That’s why people are very spiritual, they are not so materially equipped because they never paid much attention to material advancement.

Sahaja Yogi: Perhaps Mother, I know that Kumarashwami [?]. Kumarashwami is the greatest Indian critic and now everybody has set him as a master in Indian art. I read all his whole book and he is an excellent man, I think. Perhaps, he is also realized, I don’t know.

Shri Mataji: What’s his name?

Sahaja Yogi: Kumarashwami [?]

Shri Mataji: Kumarashwami. I have not read it.

Sahaja Yogi: I think he is a good man. He said also that they didn’t write their name on the [unclear] just because they see him just as an instrument of God, he was just a channel of God. He was nothing, just a channel. In fact, a man who worked in Ellora just wrote on the walls of Ellora, “Oh God, how I made it”. Just meaning that…

Shri Mataji: I am the instrument.

Sahaja Yogi: “I am just an instrument, God. Because, I couldn’t do it, You have done it”. It is very beautiful. We could not understand it in our culture and we think we do “I do, I do, I do”, but they say “God, You do, I am just a channel”.

Shri Mataji: That’s the reason, but you see, but we had a very bad invasion of the tantrikas with the same kind of thing, you see, that those people who started practicing meditation. And perhaps they saw Ganesha at Mooladhara and they thought this is the Kundalini. They started taking to sexual things and all that, and did all wrong things. Then they found out that they went into the realm of the subconscious, collective subconscious. Then, they got the bhoots in their heads. They got ideas that, if you can destroy the purity of a temple, then you can get all the bhoots there. So, they tried to destroy all the temples with their horrible tantric things. Erotics they put in, to insult the Goddess. If you insult the Goddess, she goes away from there. Supposing, say before me, somebody is misbehaving, I’ll go away. Like that, to remove the attention. And the tantrism started. But, you know, we had no idea that tantrism is like that. We never see these things. I, myself went to Nepal with my children, my daughters, my husband and we saw all the temples. We never saw anything erotic. Never saw. Then when I went to Gregoire, went to write the book he said Mother its everywhere. I said where? There were some Japanese with some zoom lenses, with these…

Sahaja Yogi: Tripod.

Shri Mataji: What you call? These ladders. They had brought all the ladders from Japan, you see? In India, you don’t get this kind of ladder. Ladders with zoom lenses, standing and somebody falling. I said what are they doing? They are taking photographs of these erotics. I said, at that point what is [unclear] [laughing]…. These Japanese, I tell you, even somebody was doing work on Sistine Chapel. Some Japanese, and he enlarged all the private parts of all the things, everybodies. Can you believe these dirty people? So, this is what it is. You see, we had an attack, we would not say no. But, these tantrikas came in, in the Advent it is given these [unclear]. These tantrikas did come in and they did attack us. But we are innocent, we never knew these things at all. And in India, we don’t know many things, I tell you. I did not know what was homesexual, I had no idea and when, you see, somebody explained to me I really didn’t eat my food for 8 days. I couldn’t believe there could be such people. Many people don’t know there are such people. In India, I think at least 90% of people don’t know. At least.

Sahaja Yogi speaking in Italian.

Sahaja Yogi: Mother, just another thing, You know that in all Italy is impossible to find books about the Indian art. It is really impossible. But you can find a book about all the erotics out of India, about all the erotics out of China.

Shri Mataji: [unclear] Because we did not know anything existed, we did not know anything existed like this. We had no idea anything was there. It is only in the west when we came, this is Kaama, what is this?

Sahaja Yogi: Kamasutra.

Shri Mataji: Kamasutra. How many Indians have read this book, even heard about it? What is that? I mean its pornography. How can you have pornography? But here people are, I mean, I don’t know what sort of people they are. Educated, uneducated, everybody read pornography. What is the level? I had never known there were books written like Kamasutra. This must be some tantrika must have written long time back.

Sahaja Yogi: During the Gupta age, Mother.

Shri Mataji: Is it?

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Mother

Shri Mataji: Gupta age?

Sahaja Yogi : A little before the Gupta age. Because you know Gupta, [unclear] capitalism in India. 

Shri Mataji: Gupta, it cannot be, because in the 7th century, the tantrism [unclear] 6th century, after the the birth of Adi Shankaracharya. It took roots, real roots.  But could be other. It really took a complete form in a very big way, Tantrism, after the 6th century. Just to oust Shankaracharya. And then the buddhist, they went into tantrism. And these masonics are another tantrics in the occident. [unclear] is Tantrism. But still, Indian people are very innocent. You won’t find such people anywhere. Even Africans are not like that, nor Russians are not like that. They are very innocent, they don’t understand. Such a big man like Modi was a stupid fool, he doesn’t understand anything. [laughing] He is worse than Me. 

Sahaja Yogi: Complete innocence. 

Shri Mataji: [laughing] Absolutely. [unclear] they die, because they are so innocent. This is all bathroom culture. Khajuraho [village in Madhya Pradesh with erotic statues on temples] all that, I mean. We never even saw all these things. I am surprised. Khajuraho is the worst, because the architect himself was a Tantrik. That is the worst, Khajuraho. No, not Khajuraho, Konark [village in Odisha, erotic statues on the Sun’s temple], Konark is the worst. But Khajuraho, the king was a very bad man. And his disciples, his ministers were Jains. They wanted to have Jain temples. So, to please the king they said alright, we’ll have erotics outside. But they had to tell all kinds of stories to the artists. They had competition. Artists were very clever, you see, they made very thin erotic pictures, and Gods & Goddesses are very healthy, fat. And in one corner, I did not know where it was. I went throughout Khajuraho without saying anything. So, I told one lady “I have read there are erotics, what is that? I would like to see”. So she came around, ” in this corner, that corner.” And one could not see because all the Europeans and all were so busy there [laughing].

Sahaja Yogi: If you open [unclear] and ask book about India, you just see this picture. All right, only Khajuraho. Indian art on books is only Khajuraho.

Shri Mataji: Can you imagine?

Sahaja Yogi : Like Konark, Khajuraho and Konark.

Shri Mataji: And we didn’t even see these things. You know, we went with our daughters. Can you imagine? My husband, they won’t even see a film together with my daughters, he’s so shy and we went to Nepal, we never knew. My son-in-law who has been so many days in Nepal, he did not know. Can you imagine? This is [unclear], who seems to be a very intelligent man. He didn’t know anything. But it is very far-fetched you know. You have to really zoom lenses to see.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes Mother, on the roof.

Shri Mataji: I mean, can’t understand. Of course, it entered into our sculpture and all that in the 10th century, but not so visible. But they went to another limit of things, these Kings, some of them, were very bad Kings, but they were after the 7th century, and they did it. But we Indians don’t know. I’ve read lots of Sanskrit, I should say. My mother was a Sanskrit scholar. My father was a Sanskrit scholar, but they never knew there was a book called Kamasutra. We never knew, I mean, it was like pornography. You don’t bring pornogrphy for an educated man, do you? I mean, do you study pornography? Is it done here for research? [laughing] 

Sahaja Yogi: They have big art exhibitions of pornography and erotica. 

Shri Mataji: For what?

Sahaja Yogi: Art exhibitions, in big public galleries.

Shri Mataji: Really? You have PhD’s on that, do you?

Sahaja Yogi : Probably. [unclear] 

Sahaja Yogi: In Spain

Shri Mataji: [laughing]. They have one big, they have that red rat for the bull and they have this erotic. Stupid people. What can I do with them, tell me? Now I have to go to Spain.

Sahaja Yogi: I have been in Spain two months ago.

Shri Mataji: Why don’t you go and see our Sahaja Yogis.

Sahaja Yogi: I will, Mother.

Shri Mataji: Poor, this Don. I went with his wife. She is now in Barcelona. But now we have a centre also in Madrid and we have Spanish people there.

Sahaja Yogi: I met them, Mother and I convinced them to come for the Guru Puja, they come.

Shri Mataji: Very good. Very nice, poor things, but, you see, the majority is nonsensical like that. They’re so stupid. My husband went to Spain, they gave him a present of an erotic thing, you see? I said what is this [laughing] I said, “who gave you?” He said, there’s something special for you. Very secretly they gave you.” I said “This is erotics.” He said,  “throw it away.” These stupid people wanted to insult me. Same in Greece. In Greece, they gave him erotic stuff, you see? To me, they gave me Mary’s face. [laughing] He said “what do they think me to be?” and he threw it away.

Sahaja Yogi: They think it is intellectual. They show freedom, perhaps.

Shri Mataji: Freedom is what? Bathroom? Bathroom freedom. [laughing]

Sahaja Yogi: I think, in all Spain, they said that now is a reaction of the Catholic church with the previous government.

Sahaja Yogi: Franco

Sahaja Yogi: Is worse [unclear]. Oppressing them, in all sense. Now is the reaction, they say, to the Catholic church. 

Shri Mataji: But that means you have no personality.

Sahaja Yogi: Liberation, drugs, it’s published, even the ministry said why not to smoke marijuana. Public. In every bar you have [unclear].

Shri Mataji: Now supposing you have a problem because of Catholic church, say they oppressed you. So, must you become stupid? I mean, you must have some personality of your own, isn’t it? And whatever Catholic church preached, there was nothing wrong with it. I don’t think there anything wrong, what they said was correct. But they did not give you the power to do that. Catholic church themself did not have the power, nor did they give you the power to do that. After Sahaja Yoga, you see it is very easy. You enjoy it, being virtuous. Isn’t it?

Sahaja Yogi speaking Italian.

Shri Mataji: I mean, human beings have become nothing but sex points. Even dogs and monkeys and donkeys have it. What is so special about it? You see, people talk about sex here and in India, those, you see, what we call the [unclear]  people. The people who are third person. Hermaphrodites. You see, and [unclear] talk about having a child, that’s how human being talk here. Sex is so natural what is so great about it? I just don’t understand, really. I think these are impotent people. To them, it is great thing, to talk about sex, perhaps. What is there to talk and to educate, what is there? It is so natural. First of all, you all become unnatural and then behave like unnatural people. It’s all unnaturalness, that’s why you are like this. Horrible it is. Absolutely horrifying. Despite all that, we produce more children than you do. We have potent men and women. We have very good married lives. And we enjoy everything that we have. What have you achieved out of your sex? Nothing. Divorce, rapist, this, that, prostitution.

Sahaja Yogi speaking Italian.

Sahaja Yogi: Without Sahaja Yoga, there is no solution, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: There is no solution. They are all going in a mass way to hell, straight. Direct to hell. I mean what are they becoming, just think of it. Sensational, this that, nonsense, as if dead bodies, you see they need sensations all the time.

Sahaja Yogi: Mother, We are sublime, we couldn’t see what we had lost. It is so much. How can we try to explain to the people what we have lost? It is too much.

Shri Mataji: It will happen, gradually they will. You don’t have to talk about their past. Forget the past. Gradually, because you develop innocence, you see? Innocence comes into your eyes. The relationships are so pure. No complications. Nothing. So beautiful.

Sahaja Yogi speaking Italian.

Shri Mataji: And with the purity of relationship, only your married lives will be alright. Otherwise, every man, his wife is running with another man. And the man is running with another woman. What sort of morality is that? Complete confusion, it is nonsense. I can’t understand this. I tell you, there’s a gentleman, he became my rakhi brother. Once I just tied a rakhi, because he had no sister. He must be now about 70 years of age, or something like this. Once I was going to Bombay, uh, to Delhi. So my husband said alright, you better go with him because he is going by train. So he booked a coupe for both of us. And we went together. I mean he is my brother. [unclear]. And we went by a coupe. When we reached there my husband came to receive me with some foreigners. Then, they were quite surprised. They said “are you divorced, Mr Shrivastava?” He said “why?” She is coming out with another man. “That’s her brother”. “Oh brother. But doesn’t look like her brother.” He said, “That’s her brother, she has accepted him as a brother.” But brother cannot travel in the same coupe, under law. If there’s a brother and a sister, they can’t live in one room, under law. What a filth it is. Can you imagine? There is no purity between real brothers and sisters. Here is just a brother, sort of a Rakhi brother. Imagine, and never goes into our heads. Nothing, not even my husband’s head. Or his wife’s head or anything. This is something surprising that people don’t understand. That, as you have rules and regulations for a good civic life, for good married life also there has to be certain rules and regulations which are to be respected.  For your good married life, there has to be some rules and regulations.

Sahaja Yogi speaking Italian.

Shri Mataji: Otherwise, how can you have a good married life? That is not curbing yourself. Every freedom has to have certain rules and regulations so that freedom is preserved. For the preservation of freedom only. This is abandonment. 

Sahaja Yogi: Maryada purushotham.

Shri Mataji: Yes, maryada purushotham. This is license. This is in no way freedom, it is license. This is abandonment. Do you see my point? This is in no way freedom. What is freedom? The husband is worried about the wife. Wife is worried about the husband. Actually, we are free people. Like my husband goes all over the world. I know for definite he is not going to look at any women. And he knows for me also, so we are free people moving everywhere, happily. It’s true freedom. Supposing now, he is there, in my house he comes even if he sleeps in the same bed my husband won’t doubt. He is like my son. My sons-in-law will come and sleep with me. They’ll sleep on the same bed. “Just hug me, mummy, mummy.” Nobody says anything. Nobody can even think, doesn’t go into our heads. I can’t understand. With all this thinking people have become mad, like just sex points. I mean you have reduced yourself to nothing but sex points. Think about it? What degradation.

Sahaja Yogi: We were like that before the Realization.

Shri Mataji: [Laughing] But now you have become Shri Ganeshas. You all have become Shri Ganeshas. You have all become such great people now.

Sahaja Yogi: But I think, still, I can’t forgive the English for what they did to You.

Sahaja Yogi: English people now has, in South America, people are [unclear] against English people, just because of Malvinas. 

Shri Mataji: The what?

Sahaja Yogi: The war, they did to Argentina. [unclear]

Shri Mataji: Argentina

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, [unclear]

Sahaja Yogi: I see in all South America, I usually go by job. 

Shri Mataji: That was stupid of her. That was very stupid. 

[Tape cuts out and resumes.]

Shri Mataji: …Germans were teaching them and they had those goose steps. You know what is a goose step? Left right, left right, and I asked how is it that you know all this? They kept quite. This is German. Lots of Germans built up their bases there, horrible Germans. In a way, I agree, they should not have, but Argentina is saved now because these Germans would have really finished them.

Sahaja Yogi: On Friday, I have been in Buenos Aires [unclear] I came to the Puja. And I feel now there is a group waiting for You and waiting for me to make the decision. I spoke about You and they are really waiting.

Shri Mataji: They’ll get. They’ll get it. Because, you see, their prestige has gone away. Argentina is in the UN, and all that. They have not lost much prestige. English has lost prestige more. But the Germans are finished. They were horrible people, Germans. And Germans were training all their military, all their navy, everything. They have built a huge big barricade. I have seen it Myself. And I was quite frightened. So, in a way its good,. In a way it’s good, in a way Argentina has not lost prestige. Doesn’t matter. In the war, though English has won the war, Argentina has not lost its face. People feel that Argentina was not wrong. Keeping Fawlkland. And still, there is a lot of reaction against Mrs Thatcher. The other day they were asking her “how did you bombard that ship”?

Sahaja Yogi: People detest Mrs Thatcher. 

Sahaja Yogi: The truth of the real aggressiveness is coming out now in the war files. It is all being exposed, how they overdid the boundaries of normal defense.

Shri Mataji: [When she had changed the codes also, the ship went and bombarded and two hundred sixty-five [unclear]. So prestige wise they have not lost. But these Germans are reduced I am very happy about them. Because these Germans, if you allow them to grow like that.

Sahaja Yogi: They are still in Chile, Mother. [unclear]

Shri Mataji: They have moved in Chile?

Sahaja Yogi: They are now there, with Pinochet and all these people, doing the same.

Shri Mataji: But Chile people are also…Chile government is also a very very tough government.

Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji, they’d like to give you dinner now. 

Shri Mataji: All right.

Sahaja Yogi: Thank You very much for talking to us. 

Shri Mataji: I’m going to eat what you brought for me.