Press Interview with “Canberra Times”, Canberra, Australia, 20 March 1990.

Shri Mataji: You ask them to bring My spectacles.

Lady interviewer: Yeah, I, I came along for about now last night
Shri Mataji: Little loudly.
Lady interviewer: Oh, sorry. I came along for that now last night. There were just a few things that I want to clarify with You. – Umm, this is Your fifth time here in Australia, is it right?
Shri Mataji: No, no. This is, I think, fourth time.
Lady interviewer: Fourth time. Right.
Shri Mataji: Yes.
Lady interviewer: And how did you find last night, how did it go?
Shri Mataji: For Canberra it’s very good, I must say. [Shri Mataji laughs]
Lady interviewer: Yeah. More people than you thought of.
Shri Mataji: Everywhere else much more. I think we must have had about one thousand two hundred or so in Sydney.
Lady interviewer: Right, right, okay. Just a few things like on the health aspect You talking about I wonder if you could define your Creative Yoga a bit more for me.
Shri Mataji: A little louder.

Lady interviewer: I wonder if you could define your Creative Yoga a bit more. I was talking to a few people afterwards that time. [unclear] forms of yoga. I wonder if You could explain for me because I didn’t quite understand Your, Your actual philosophy.
Shri Mataji: See, Sahaja Yoga, ‘saha’ means with, ‘ja’ means born, ‘yoga’ means union with the Divine Power. So, born with you, every human being, is the right to be united to this Divine Power which is a subtle power that governs this Universe, looks after all the living processes, evolutionary processes, balancing.
This power nourishes as well as guides us and could be called as the Collective Unconscious, little narrow, but that’s what it is. So we have to be connected with it directly. Apart from it, it thinks, organizes and also it loves. So to get connected with it, is the last breakthrough of your evolution and that has to be achieved. So we become sages and this was known to many people thousands of years back. But it could not be achieved because people were not matured enough to receive it, perhaps. But in modern times, it is already prophesized that this is going to happen and this happening is taking place where human awareness gets connected with this power by which it achieves a new dimension of Collective Consciousness on their Central Nervous System. On our finger-tips we have the sympathetic nervous system endings, that’s what doctors have gone into.
Lady interviewer: Yeah, yeah, You explained that last night.
Shri Mataji: Yeah.

Lady interviewer: If You could just get away from that though, like, how do You actually practice the creative yoga? How do You teach people to practice?
Shri Mataji: Oh!
First of all you have to get connected, first of all. The –
Lady interviewer: And how does that happen?
Shri Mataji: That’s so spontaneous is, I give an analogy to make you understand that if you have a seed, you put it in the Mother Earth, it sprouts, it’s a living process or we can say that, if one light is enlightened, that can enlighten another light.
So now supposing, I’m enlightened and if I enlighten you, you can enlighten another person.
Lady interviewer: But how’re You going to enlighten me?
Shri Mataji: Just if you put your hands towards Me, you can get enlightenment.
So simple as that. [Shri Mataji laughs] And that works.
You know, on a radio station in New Zealand, Gentleber [name unsure] is supposed to be Doctor of Philosophy and he was asking Me questions. He’s quite a skeptical fellow. And suddenly, he started feeling the cool breeze on his hand.
He said, he suddenly forgot what question he asked Me. He said: “Oh, look at this! What is happening to my hand! There’s a cool breeze, ” and then he said: “But not in my head.” So I gave him a little balance and raised his Kundalini, and then he said: “Yes, on my head, ” And then he said: “There’s a ball ball of Kundalini- a ball of cool breeze in my hand. Just a ball. See, there’s a ball in it.” And that’s all on the tape, you see. So it happened.
And he said: “I’m the, I’m such a doubting person, I’m so skeptical, I never believe into these things how did I get it?” I said: “You were just ready for it, that’s all.”

Lady interviewer: But how do you deal with, with people that are skeptical? I mean.
Shri Mataji: How do you do?
Lady interviewer: How do you deal with people that are skeptical of what You teach?
Shri Mataji: I know how to answer them, that much I know.
Lady interviewer: What if I say to You that I’m skeptical about it? How will You answer me?
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes but you see what I’m saying is supposing whatever I am telling you, you must have an open mind. You must have an open mind of a scientist as think it to be a hypothesis for yourself. You need not accept Me because blind faith is not needed. Actually blind faith is more dangerous. If an atheist is there, it’s better.
Lady interviewer: More dangerous?
Shri Mataji: Yes, because they are bound by that. They have some blind faith, they have their own concept about truth. So they’re more bound than the people who do not believe into anything. That’s what has happened in Russia. They are the ones who got it first.
Lady interviewer: What you mean what that’s ?
Shri Mataji: Because they have no conditionings. They have no conditionings and so many got, thousands and settled down into it.
Lady interviewer: How do you say that they had no conditionings?
Shri Mataji: No conditionings of any kind. So if there’s blind faith it doesn’t work out so well.
But if you keep your mind open like a scientist, then this is a hypothesis I put before you. So why not get it? Because you don’t have to pay, don’t have to do anything, it just works out. If that is your own power, why not get it?
It’s sensible and logical, isn’t it?

Lady interviewer: But how do You work out, how do You get it out of Yourself? Like there’s people that were last night what if they would have come away from there?
Shri Mataji: Now they have come away, now we have a center here, luckily, in Canberra. They can come to the center – and these people are very well equipped, they can tell them.
Lady interviewer: You have a Yoga center here in-
Shri Mataji: Yes, we have. We have a very nice center here, and very nice people. Some have come from England and some are here. They can work it out. So there’s no problem on that.
Lady interviewer: And the Yoga center that You’ve got here, how many people are involved in that? Shri Mataji: I’m very bad at accounts, I don’t know. [Shri Mataji laughs]
Sahaja Yogi: Twenty, Mataji, about twenty.
Shri Mataji: In Canberra we have the minimum number.
Sahaja Yogi: We have regular programs.
Shri Mataji: I’ve never been to Canberra before, this is the first time I’ve been.
Lady interviewer: Here, You have not been to Canberra before?
Shri Mataji: It’s the first time in Canberra.

Lady interviewer: And how did You do all this? Like You probably explained last night, but if you could just explain again how You actually came to Yoga or it came to You, like how You started on this, this journey of?
Shri Mataji: How I started?
Lady interviewer: Umm.
Shri Mataji: I mean, I was born Realized, I should say. I knew all about this Myself but I knew also that I have to find out a method which will give enmasse Realization. Formerly, there used to be one or two people getting Realization, very few. But I knew that I have to work out some method. So, I studied the subtle problems that lies in every human being and I met many people like that. And I tried to find out what is the way one can work out that they can get enmasse Realization, you see, the permutations and combinations, if you can work it out. And then I discovered it’s not so difficult.
On the 5th May 1970, the last center was opened out and that’s how it started working because that’s the only center is closed in human beings, the seventh one, which is here. And that opened out and I started working from 1970. I started with one lady.
Lady interviewer: What do You mean You started with?
Shri Mataji: Started means, I call, there was one lady who was interested in it. She came to Me and I worked on her. And it worked! Then we had twenty-five people more because, you see, as soon as somebody gets Realization, the news spreads.
It’s a very big thing for Indians to get Realization, they think that’s the highest thing to have. So the news spread and so many people came. So first, I got one lady, then twenty-five of them. They all used to come to My house to begin with.
And now, then I started moving about.
My husband got elected to a job in London. He became the Secretary-general of International Maritime Organization in the U.N. So, I went to England and the work started in England and England being a circulation of all the countries, from England people started spreading out. And now we are working in forty nations, Sahaja Yoga.

Lady interviewer: And You’re talking about the Russian situation.
Shri Mataji:Yes.
Lady interviewer: Do You feel that Your Creative Yoga has made them more happy and healthy or?
Shri Mataji: Yes, of course. There’re two types of Russias.
One type which is, I would not say, so evolved. They’re like dishwashers and sort of people who are taxi drivers or things like that. So they care more for, say, Russian cigarettes, American cigarettes and things like that. But the rest of Russians are very well-educated, very capable and very well-read and extremely wise.
Lady interviewer: It seems to be a lot of them that are wanting to leave the country though if they’re so happy and healthy they –
Shri Mataji: They’re not happy.
Lady interviewer: They’re not?
Shri Mataji: They are not happy because they said that they didn’t find their Spirit, this part of the – this area.
And the rest of them, they are materialists, so they can never be happy. Anywhere in the world materialist can never be happy because materialism never gives you happiness. Materialism takes you from one matter to another. You go on jumping, as I told you yesterday: that it’s Economics.

Lady interviewer: How do You, how do You do with that in a Western civilization like this which is based on materialistic possessions, I mean?
Shri Mataji: You see, they, because they were put on the materialistic achievements, you see, that’s how the theory started there. And so they said no God, nothing, no religion, nothing of that. But they saw through it that materialism doesn’t give you joy. So they didn’t waste their time in politics, gossip, this, that nonsense. They were busy finding out where does lie the joy? And so they have read a lot and they know a lot. Somehow, they were just ready, I think.
Must be some blessings . I don’t know what, [Shri Mataji laughs] how to explain really. Because so wonderful they are, very wonderful people. And this problem of this food and all that started by their modern bureaucrats. It’s not true that there’s no food. Food was there but the unhappiness came from the fact that they were seeking their Spirit.
Lady interviewer: Seeking their Spirit?
Shri Mataji: Their Spirit. You see, they were thinking, “joy is beyond”. I have visited Russia before so there’s no inflation and no, you can say, problems of mugging or anything, no violence, very peaceful and sufficiently enough. Clothes: they wear very good clothes and there, everything is available at a very cheap price. Only thing they felt, they have no freedom within themselves to speak about everything. And that’s how they went inside their being, they became introverts, started finding out “what’s the matter”, “what should we have”. And that’s how they found out, I think, a state of mind which was just ready to get Realization.

Lady interviewer: It seems with other forms of yoga they, it’s much more subtle, more private way of practicing yoga just seems that I can’t see what You teach people, as far as relaxation and the other forms of yoga is supposed to.
Shri Mataji: No madam, this is the most open science. They have just like say, Transcendental meditation – is a horrible stuff.
They just give you a mantra without telling you why this mantra, how this mantra according to age. And when I discovered they were funny mantras, in Sanskrit, they have no meaning. In our ordinary words, they said one was “Inga”. “Inga” means “bite of a scorpion”. “Pinga” means when a person gets possessed, the round and round it goes – a person goes round, that’s “Pinga”. And “Thinga” means when you show your thumb to somebody, like this, when you show him down.
So this sort of nonsense and for that people paid three, three hundred pounds for this! And for this another thing that they had is a “Sidhdhi Course” where they said: “You’ll be floating in the air.” I don’t know what’s the need for doing that, but still. For that, I got the person who was running it, in Greenock in Scotland, Mr. Peter Pears. He, his wife, his daughter and his deputy director, all got epilepsy. They came to see Me and they told Me the whole story about it. Now, he’s writing a book what all had happened. And they had put all their money – he was a diamond merchant, his wife was a granddaughter of a duke, all the money to start this. And they were told that you have to make them jump on the foams, these people, and tell them: “This is the mantra they have to say and they will start floating.”
Gradually, they found out it’s all fake. And so they stopped sending money to them, gradually they and these people became broke. They had nothing left with them and he had to go back to South Africa because he was declared as a person, bankrupt.
And now there are many cases running in America, saying that their bottoms are broken with the Sidhdhi course. And six thousand pounds they took from each person to go to Switzerland where they gave for six days, the water which has boiled potatoes. And the seventh day they gave them the rind to eat and the eighth day that potato. And said that: “You have to take this if you have to do the Sidhdhi course.” And people accepted.
There is a lady, who is a barrister, she did it, her sister did it – her sister ended up in a lunatic asylum. She came to Sahaja Yoga: now both of them are all right.

Lady interviewer: Oh, with so many other like, people that have their own formulas about what’s, what’s good for you and what’s right for health, I mean, how do we know that Your way is any way better than anybody else?
Shri Mataji: You see, the only way is to know, first of all, that you can’t pay for anything like that. First, as Christians, you should know because Christ never took any money. Nobody can pay for that.
Of course now if I travel – first, in the beginning, I used to pay Myself. And now, of course, they are self-respecting people so they pay for My travel and also here say, supposing you take a hall, you can pay for the hall: they don’t pay Me but they pay for the hall or they pay to the travel agent. But you can’t pay for My lectures and you can’t pay for My work which I’m doing of Self-realization, you can’t pay because it’s a living process. You cannot pay for it. All these yogas are money-making propositions. Just money-making. 19:33
But this is the point which people go against Sahaja Yoga that: “How can it be without money?” They don’t want to accept that point. But in U.S.S.R. this is the point that hit them because they knew you cannot pay for living process.
They came to Sahaja Yoga after reaching a certain maturity in it. So they just jumped at it. They understood it. But here, even you’ll be surprised, as I told yesterday, that in Boston they asked Me: “How many Rolls Royces You have?” I said: “How can I have Rolls Royces when I don’t take any money?” So they said: “We can’t understand Sahaja Yoga because it is no business.”
Even in BBC London, you’ll be surprised. BBC London man came to see Me and he said: “Anglo-Saxon brain cannot understand anything without money.”
I said: “I’m sorry, I can’t make you understand, I will not go on your London BBC.” If that is the Anglo-Saxon brain, who has made it? Is it a special type? This kind of a queer idea that you have to pay for everything, I think it’s a subtle ego that you can purchase everyone, you can purchase your guru, you can purchase Christ also. And then they did sell Him, didn’t they?

Lady interviewer: What about people that keep to the church? I mean obviously they –
Shri Mataji: I mean, if they want to go to church I don’t want to stop them. But if they think they have not achieved anything in the church, they better come to Sahaja Yoga. Because Christ has said that: “You’re to be born again.” He has said: ”You have to seek yourself.”

Lady interviewer: If You don’t charge for anything like when You are on Your tours, I mean obviously, You have to live on something.
Shri Mataji: No, it’s My husband, he’s very well paid. I don’t have to do.
Lady interviewer: So, if You weren’t married, if You weren’t in that situation, how would You go about it then?
Shri Mataji: Well, you see for such a person there’s always a provision.
You should live with whatever you have. Now, see Christ, Christ was the son of a carpenter. If I was a poor person, I would have lived like a poor person. What does it matter? It’s nothing important. You have to seek the comfort of your Spirit and not of your body. Even now, where I come from a rich family from My father’s side also and from husband’s side but I can sleep anywhere, I can live anywhere, I can eat anything. I’ve no problem.

Lady interviewer: Just coming back to the health aspect of –
Shri Mataji: Umm?
Lady interviewer: Just coming back to the health aspects of the yogis
Shri Mataji: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lady interviewer: Do you practice yoga Yourself?
Shri Mataji: Oh, I need not.
Lady interviewer: Sorry?
Shri Mataji: No, I don’t practice anything because I’m just in it, I’ve everything. I’ve reached a stage where I don’t have to practice.
Lady interviewer: But You’re talking last night about how it cures.

Shri Mataji: Yes, Yes, yes. That’s for you people? That, that curing works for you people because your Kundalini has to be risen.
Lady interviewer: When the “what”? Sorry.
Shri Mataji: Kundalini is the source or we can say is the power which gives you Self-realization. You were there yesterday or not, is the point?
Lady interviewer: Yes, I was.
Shri Mataji: Did you hear Me about the Sacrum bone? And there’s a power, that power is the Kundalini which has to rise. And when it rises, it nourishes your subtle center. It’s your own power.
Lady interviewer: What does Kundalini mean though? What is it?
Shri Mataji: Kundalini is the, is an energy within you.
Lady interviewer: And where does it get there from?
Shri Mataji: I Beg your pardon.
Lady interviewer: Why is it called that, where does the name come from?
Shri Mataji: Come from? It is placed there, in you, like, just like a connection, this one. This is to be connected to the mains, isn’t it ? Otherwise this doesn’t work. In the same way, it’s coiled up and kept in the triangular bone and it rises within you and once it rises, it pierces through this fontanel bone area and connects you to the All-Pervading Power about which I was telling you. And as a result of that, it passes through six subtle centers, it nourishes those centers, integrates them and that’s how automatically you get well.

Lady interviewer: Did you have some questions?
Man interviewer: I Think, [unclear] my way would have been different to you. Articles and newspaper, really.
Lady interviewer: In a way.
[Discussion between the two journalists]

Shri Mataji: What’s he saying?
Lady interviewer: I was asking, I didn’t want to monopolize the thing.
Man interviewer: No, no, no, it’s good to hear story and my way is different cause we have a music program.
Shri Mataji: I beg your pardon? Little loudly.
Man interviewer: We have a music program at 2XX community radio and the format is a little different to this interview.
Shri Mataji: I can’t hear. You see, I’ve little difficult for hearing your Australian English.
Man interviewer: I think the lady’s interview is a little different what we’re actually after.
Shri Mataji: Oh, I see. She’s different.
Man interviewer: Now our program is basically music.
Shri Mataji: Hmm, hmm.
Man interviewer: And I think, we have to more, to find out little bit more about more or less an introduction rather than this type of interview. Yes.

Shri Mataji: These musicians [Nirmal Sangeet Sarita], all of them, are so young, you must have seen. And one is a blind fellow [Guruji]. And with Realization, they became so dynamic. So now, they want to play for Me and sing for Me because they got it, you see.
And the one who has composed it was a chartered accountant [Babamama]. He never knew any Urdu or any- I mean, poetical language. But he’s become a poet.

Lady interviewer: Okay, with that, that will do for me, I think so maybe. Thank You!
Shri Mataji: Thank you very much. [Lady interviewer leaves the spot.]

Shri Mataji: Yesterday you saw so many lifted their hands and said they got it.
Man interviewer: No I was not there.
Shri Mataji: So many were there, did you see that?
Lady interviewer: No.
Shri Mataji: You didn’t see that part. Yesterday there were so many people-
Man interviewer: The Realization session.
Shri Mataji: who said they have got their Realization.
I wish you could show her that, what happened yesterday so she will see that there were so many. I was surprised because bureaucrats are difficult. I’m sorry.
Why don’t you come here?
Man interviewer: Here I am. I think I should explain what we are about, how we have a community radio 2XX which is a public fund radio program
Shri Mataji: Ha, ha.
Man interviewer: A program’s covers all various things. Now, Hashim, I want to introduce Hashim here. He is a – he has a nightly, a Sunday night radio program of Indian music.
Shri Mataji: I see.
Man interviewer: And what I would actually like to ask You is more or less an introduction, so I can find out little bit more about You and who You are etc. I think I’ll almost find out.
Shri Mataji: Introduction to this music?
Man interviewer: Yes, sort of, that sort of thing.
Shri Mataji: The music was –
Man interviewer: No, no, not to music but just a sort of fit You in, to introduce our listeners to You, that sort of interview.
Shri Mataji: I see.
Man interviewer: So it’s not –
Shri Mataji: So first I’ve to talk about, you want Me to talk about music?
Man interviewer: No I would like to find out where You came from and that sort of thing, general interests because our listeners don’t know You at this stage.
Shri Mataji: All right.
Man interviewer: You see, so I guess basically that’s was all about. And I would say: “Welcome You to 2 XX” and have a bit of a talk where You born and under what signs and –
Shri Mataji: All right, about Myself.
Man interviewer: I believe, yes, I believe there was a significant sign which You’re born under – and You born –
Shri Mataji: It was on a Tropic of Cancer I was born.
Man interviewer: Humm
Shri Mataji: There’re very few places on Tropic of Cancer. One of them is Mecca.
Man interviewer: There is some significance of the planets?
Shri Mataji: Yes, planets are very much there. I was born on 21st March, equinox, 12 0’clock in the daytime. You know they have cast My horoscope also, suggestive of lots of things.

Man interviewer: So can we sort of start this out by doing some sort of a production.
Shri Mataji: Whenever you say. You can ask Me questions if you want.
Man interviewer: Yeah. This is a Hashim. Hashim is the programmer I was telling.

Hashim: Yes, I observed last night that the musicians assisted in making the atmosphere wonderful. Do You think that the music is important in making the Kundalini rise in meditation or in Sahaja Yoga?
Shri Mataji: Yes it’s a devotional music. And a musical, devotional music if is sung by people who are Realized souls, reaches your heart, reaches your Kundalini also and helps a lot to awaken them. So if there are – these are all Realized souls who were there, the dancer, everybody. The dancer was playing the rhythm and the rhythm is a Divine rhythm because she’s now become a Realized soul, she’s connected with the Divine.
So when she dances, she creates a divine rhythm and when these people sing, they also sing a Divine devotion. Otherwise, without connection, if you sing the praise of God, it doesn’t reach God because you’re not connected like a telephone which is not connected.

If you start telephoning, your telephone gets spoiled. So, for Devotion also, you should be connected with God. So as they are connected with the Divine, the music emits vibrations, what you call the divine vibration. As a result, it creates an atmosphere for people to receive their Realization. It becomes much easier for Me to give Realization because the atmosphere cleanse out, cleanses out and people also get ready for Realization. Because they are Realized souls, all of them are.
So this is the reason why I was very happy they could manage to come. They are all professionals and they have agreed to come here and do it for a, just to help Me in Sahaja Yoga.
And also you’ll be surprised that this music is very difficult, Indian music is a very difficult music. It’s not easy for people to sing unless and until you go into big practices.

But is so amazing that when people get Realization, all these people who are Westerner people from forty countries, they all can sing these songs with same depth and with same understanding, without making any mistakes even in pronunciation. Otherwise, it is so difficult to pronounce Sanskrit! Even Indian languages, so difficult that they could not even pronounce one sentence properly.

And now, the whole song, Sanskrit song, any song they sing so well. And if you close your eyes, you won’t believe that they’re foreigners who are singing, who have never known this language before. So something has gone dynamically new in them that they just pick it up and sing so well.

Hashim: So would You consider that music has become part of the meditation like that?
Shri Mataji: Of course, very much. Music is, is a divine gift to human beings, it’s a divine gift. We call it, it starts with Omkara, means the first word as that was, you call as “logos”, you see. It starts with that. And that’s, that’s the proof of it. Because when they get their Realization, how is it they know such difficult language and such difficult tunes and so correctly that they can sing?

It’s very surprising. So music is a very inner part, dancing, music, all art is very much connected with the Divine. Now, we have had many artists who have been Realized souls. We can say Michelangelo was a Realized soul and the way he painted earth, it emits vibrations. You see, if you see Mona Lisa done by Leonardo da Vinci, it has vibrations, it gives you vibrations. Those people who were Realized souls, like Mozart, when you play Mozart, you get vibrations out of it.
You can feel them, on your finger-tips you can feel them. So there are musicians who are Realized souls.
Also artists, also people like Abraham Lincoln was a Realized soul, Gorbachev is a Realized soul, he’s also a sage. So when these people are there, how will you make them out? As she was asking Me. You have to just put your hands towards them and you can feel it.

Man interviewer: I think, basically we still getting back to 2 XX program. I really want to, more or less, interview You as a person who’s just coming in the studio and welcome You to the 2XX program.
Shri Mataji: All right.
Man interviewer: And then just ask You – how Your birth etc.
Shri Mataji: Yes all right.
Man interviewer: Can we do that?
Shri Mataji: All right.
Man interviewer: From the start.
Hashim, can we do that?
Hashim: Yeah.

Like you, I lost my glasses.
Shri Mataji: Is it alright?
Man interviewer: Yeah.

Welcome to 2 XX Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi. I forgot the name, the right pronunciation.
May I call You Mother?
Shri Mataji: Thank you very much.
Man interviewer: Mother, You were born under a very unusual sign.
Shri Mataji: Yeah. You say so
Man interviewer: Could we?
Shri Mataji: Yes. I was born in a place called Chhindwara which is on the Tropic of Cancer and it’s a hill-station.
I was born in a family, which was in ancient times, was a royal family and they have a calendar also, which is even now used in India, in the Southern part of India, called as Shalivahanas. They ruled in a country now called as Maharashtra, also up to the Southern areas and also in the Northern areas.
But later on, gradually it subsided because of certain earthquakes and certain floods that came in.
Man interviewer: When did You actually start the Sahaja Yoga?
Shri Mataji: I started it in 1970, 5th May, the last center was opened out and that’s how I started after that, I should say.

Man interviewer: Is the Sahaja Yoga based on Your experienced philosophy?
Shri Mataji: Based on?
Man interviewer: Your experienced philosophy.
Shri Mataji: Yes, of course. We had Sahaja Yoga since long, thousands of years back people have written about it. That it is through “sahaj” only you get it. Don’t- “sahaj” also means “easy”, by not doing anything, “sahaj” means spontaneous actually, in English language. So, you just get it spontaneously. But for that, you have to have a person who is authorized by the Divine and you must have the seeker of truth who should get it. So, it was only one or two persons used to get it.

Patanjali Yoga, the whole thing, which is, now from which people have taken out Hatha yoga – they don’t do Hatha Yoga. Hatha Yoga is, “Ha” is the right side and “Tha” is the left side. Means, you have to have the working on both the sides, that is on your emotions as well as on your mental activities. So, it is not that way, it is- just works on one side, it is just a physical activity. So that is not, that’s just a wee part of the whole of Patanjali who wrote about it. He had written eight things about it and Sahaja Yoga is crossing all other things and comes to the stage where it is called “samadhi”, means “awareness”. It just works on awareness.

So the modern Sahaja Yoga that I have started is a Sahaja Yoga in which we first, somehow or the other, give you Realization. So, you get into one more stage called as thoughtless awareness which is called as: “nirvichar samadhi”. One that state is established you start seeing what’s wrong with you, yourself and then you start correcting yourself – I don’t have to tell you: “Don’t do this, don’t do that.” You just start correcting yourself. Then, the second stage you achieve which is called as: “nirvikalpa samadhi” which is doubtless awareness because you become absolutely sure of yourself – that’s a state again you achieve.

That’s how one achieves a very great state of spiritual ascent which Christ has said that: “You’re to be born again,” or “Know yourself”.
With this, your hands start speaking as said by Koran that: “Your hands will speak,” and that you start feeling on the fingertips all the centers that you have within yourself, so you know about yourself – also you can feel the centers of others. But now, if you know how to decode them and to find out how to correct them, you can correct any center.

Man interviewer: Yes. And You are doctor of medicine and psychology.
Shri Mataji: No, I wouldn’t say that, because in I never practiced anything but I did study Medicine. Man interviewer: You did your studies, qualified.
Shri Mataji: I studied medicine, I had to also study little bit of psychology because I had to talk to psychologist and I had to talk to doctors so I wanted to know their terminology, what it is.

Man interviewer: And you also were born Christian?
Shri Mataji: Yes, I was born in a Protestant Christian family.
Man interviewer: Do You also practice that religion?
Shri Mataji: No, I mean it’s all, this is real Christianity.
Man interviewer: I see. So the yoga is actually a religion.
Shri Mataji: Real Christianity because you get the actualization, your baptism. It’s nothing artificial in it. You know that Christ was the Son of God through only Sahaja Yoga because there is a center within you where you have an optic chiasma, in that resides Christ which is the cross. And because of His resurrection, we can resurrect, so it is the gate. And then
Man interviewer: Yeah.
Shri Mataji: I Beg your pardon?

Man interviewer: How did You receive the message to start the yoga?
Shri Mataji: I knew all these things, I knew all this.
Man interviewer: So it just didn’t come to You as a?
Shri Mataji: No, it doesn’t come, it’s all there.
Man interviewer: It has been with You all Your life right through.
Shri Mataji: I Beg your pardon?
Man interviewer: Right through Your life, it’s a, You’ve known that one day You would be doing this sort of a preaching or making this sort of movement similar to this.
Shri Mataji: What is it?
Man interviewer: All Your life You would more or less know that this would be-
Shri Mataji: Yeah, yeah. I knew. Only problem was, you see, I knew all about it, I knew that all religions are integrated. Christ has said that: “Those who are not against us are with us.” I knew all of them, everything I knew. But the problem was I didn’t want to talk about it, I didn’t want to do anything about it because I thought I must find out an en masse Realization method. Otherwise, you see, if you give Realization to one person, people get after that person. See everybody was tortured. Mohammad Sahib was given poison. Christ was crucified. Everybody was tortured, every saint was tortured. So I thought we should give it to so many people.
We have to create a new race now of Realized souls, then they will understand.
Man interviewer: But You still believe in God?
Shri Mataji: Of course, God is there, without God nothing can be done. God is there, I’m just doing the work of God only. He wants you to enter into His Kingdom, I’m just working it out that you all enter into His Kingdom and enjoy Him. Of course.

Man interviewer: Yeah well, wish You happy stay!
Shri Mataji: I Beg your pardon?
Man interviewer: I wish You happy stay!
Shri Mataji: Thank you.
Man interviewer: And I guess You’ll be back sometime.
Shri Mataji: It should be.
Man interviewer: Next year?
Shri Mataji: I hope next year I’ll be here, I hope so and I’ll work it out. I’ve been working for so many years now, now I’m 67 years of age already and I hope some more years I would be able to spend to travel around. There’re so many nations I have to travel through all the time I’m traveling.
Man interviewer: Thanks very much!
Shri Mataji: Thank you.

Is it alright?
Man interviewer: Hmm.
Shri Mataji: Little bit you’ll have to cut out because I couldn’t hear. You see, since yesterday My head has is little bit too much, has been going on everyday morning, evening and no rest, sleeping at 3 o’clock, getting up 5 o’clock. So it’s a little bit today My head is little bit wobbly, I should say
Man interviewer: Thank you, madam, it’s something similar to me, I ‘m just trying to get over the wobble.
Shri Mataji: I beg your pardon?
Man interviewer: The cold, yeah?
Shri Mataji: Yeah, also I got cold because here women smoke so much and they smoked on My face, you see. So, smoking is so much here still, I mean, you must stop that. So much smoking. There’s something has happened, I don’t know if you’ll believe it or not. But I went down to Cairns and –
Is she there, Kay?
Sahaja Yogi: Just have a look if I can.
Shri Mataji: Yes, just let her get.
And they took Me down to that reef, you see, they were telling Me about these crown thorns [starfish Acanthaster] and things like that. We just went round, you see, must- the vibrations must have spread and suddenly they all have left now. They don’t know, mysteriously. They were eating all these corals. All of them have left suddenly. The paper it has appeared on the 17th. I was there on the 8th I reached there, 8th to 10th and we just went round and I was just- and in the area where we went, it has happened.
Sahaja Yogi: Renown.
Shri Mataji: Yes.
Man interviewer: Would You say there was a miracle at all?
Shri Mataji: I beg your pardon?
Man interviewer: Would you call that a miracle?
Shri Mataji: No it’s not a miracle because vibrations are there, you see, the Divine vibrations, they give a balance, they destroy all such things automatically. So, because I went there, the vibrations must have spread, I think so that must have happened. It has happened, so many things have happened. Have you got that thing? I want them to see.
Sahaja Yogini: Yes, Shri Mataji. [The Yogini gives a copy].
Shri Mataji: Yes, please.
So she came from Cairns and she brought it to show Me. But when we were coming from New Zealand they announced it as a big news in the airplane. that this is what has happened.
Yes, thank you.
Sahaja Yogini: This is from page at 9:30 pm.

Shri Mataji: Also it helps, vibrations help your plants very much. There’s one gentleman called Dr. Hamid, he has solved the problem of acid rain, in Austria, by giving vibrations. All the trees which were below 60 years, all were saved and doing very well. So, he said we can solve that problem also. Also, agriculture can improve, many a time. We can use non-hybrid seeds, vibrate them and you can get tremendous effect of it. I have done that and we got beautiful rice in our house just in 1 acre I got, out of 60 kilos, I got 1400 kilos of rice.
So, I mean, it just changes the whole atmosphere, everything changes. You saw that?

Hashim: I have got to ask You one question for the radio show, Shri Mataji, would You give advice for the listeners of this program?
Shri Mataji: You see, they can-
Hashim: It can effect them?
Shri Mataji: Yes, it can effect them.
What they have to do, is to ask them to put their hands, when I’m speaking, both the hands towards the photograph, if they have. But if they don’t have the photograph, then they can just put it towards the radio, just towards the radio and they’ll get it, they should get it.
If not once, twice, thrice they should try. If they tape it and they can again play it and put in their hands, they might get it. We tried that in Hong Kong, it worked, it did work.

Because even what I speak, has vibrations.
You see, they are vibrations: when you speak, when you’re Realized, you’ll also have vibrations. We’ve got photographs where all the Sahaja Yogis are sitting and on top of their heads is the light. There’re so many miraculous photographs that you won’t believe. You won’t believe that there’re such photographs are possible.
We have any here, no?
Sahaja Yogini: No, I’ve got one from Cairns.
Shri Mataji: Hum?
Sahaja Yogini: I’ve got one from Cairns.
Shri Mataji: You’ve got one alright. Can you show them?
We have so many photographs even that shows light in My hand.
There’s a Moon in, at My feet. They’ve got in My heart light. There’s a light coming on My head.
Well, all kinds! I mean there’s no end to it.
But that we don’t show to anyone because nobody believes it. So only the Sahaja Yogis who have done the photographs, they know that this is theirs.

Man interviewer: Very interesting.
Shri Mataji: And even, even recently My, from My head, light is coming like this like a complete lotus.
We have only one but we should have everywhere some photographs to show them.
It would be a good idea but nobody would believe, I mean, you people seem to be quite receptive so you will believe it. But normally people don’t believe it. They believe in God but they don’t believe that God is miraculous. They believe in God, alright, there is God but they can’t believe that God would be miraculous, that’s the trouble, you see. It’s just their mental concept of God: “Oh, is there is God, we believe in God,” But what is that God is? He’s so Great!

You could find one, did you?
Sahaja Yogi: Unfortunately, a small boy got hold of it. It’s a bit crumpled but You can see them.
Shri Mataji: Which one?
Oh! This is I’m standing in the sea, in the heart there’s light.
Sahaja Yogi: It’s a little bit crinkled because George got hold of it.
Man interviewer: Yeah.
Sahaja Yogi: But, and it’s- there’re scores of autographs like this.
Shri Mataji: Ah, that’s scores, really.

Another Sahaja Yogi: I was talking to a German who has edited a lot of films on Shri Mataji. And he says that: “About every 200 frames there is a- they will get one frame that’s got light all over.”

Shri Mataji: No, but these Russians when they took the photographs, you see, they did the filming, for 10 minutes they have got one. It’s full of lights and that’s how they earned lot of money out of that in Russia. And they came all the way to do our- you remember this time.
Another Sahaja Yogi: Yes.
Shri Mataji: All the way to India because they said: “We have never seen such a thing that without any organizing any lights or anything, how we got light from You coming this way, that way and that was all in the film.” So the Russians were very much impressed. Also, that has helped a lot for publicity. So they’re just waiting there for Me.

In the West, I don’t know, we have, we think too much, I think we have, we have ideas and they’re not true. We must open our heads and see for ourselves whatever is the truth, we should accept because we talk of God, we’ll read Bible, alright, we’ll go to church this, that. But it’s so superficial, God is so deep! And once your depth is opened out, you can see all these things so clearly. He works, it’s not a myth. It’s not a myth.

Man interviewer: Yeah, I think, we’ve gone half here.
Shri Mataji: That’s why I said it is real Christianity.
Man interviewer: Yeah, yeah.
Shri Mataji: Ours is a Pauleen Christianity, Pauleen, Paul organized it. And so many have criticized. Khalil Gibran, I have seen, there’s another I wrote- I saw a book about Christ being in India and that gentleman has also criticized Pauleen Christianity. And also, so many of them have said this is not real Christianity and is all Pauleen Christianity.

Shri Mataji: You’ve got something?
Sahaja Yogini: this one?
Shri Mataji: Yes, this one. This is in a village. These people have made it.
Sahaja Yogini: It’s Sahaj, Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Where is it?
Sahaja Yogini: On the boat coming back from Green Island.
Shri Mataji: Hum?
Sahaja Yogini: It was on the boat coming back from Green Island.
Shri Mataji: Why is this all on My head ?
Sahaja Yogini: [Inaudible].
Shri Mataji: That may, can be challenged but other things. There’s a light on My head. But there’s some more, must be.
Sahaja Yogini: They’re getting them from [unclear].
Actually, there’s one of You near the boat. There was no light there at all. There were people sitting there and that light is on top of Shri Mataji’s head. And you can’t see them, it’s just that light coming.

Shri Mataji: You see, when one should doubt, one can go on doubting. No end to it. But if you believe in God then God is a miracle, no doubt.
But the miracles are not like this that the chair moves from here to there or you get something in your hand, that’s not the miracle. God is not interested in all these things; or you jump in the air. What’s the use?
All these funny ideas especially this TM is the most dangerous one. Yesterday, we had somebody from TM, two of them. Absolutely, they couldn’t get Realization and they end up as epileptic people. There is no criticism of TM here? Some must have done.
Man interviewer: Umm, I think basically it’s all over the world.
Shri Mataji: Everybody is afraid?
Man interviewer: Yeah, I think so.
Shri Mataji: I am not afraid. They have never, you see, I have been openly telling about them from 1970. Nobody has challenged Me, nobody has said anything.
Sahaja Yogi: In Canberra, Mother, there are selling themselves stress managers to all the public servants and they will or they went to the public servants by giving lectures on stress management. And the government supports it by allowing people to go along. The same way they try to get into the health system in England. But the doctors threw them out because they knew that they were frauds in England.
Shri Mataji: But you see, they’ll discover it in no time. It happened also in London, people have discovered it. Now they’re not allowed to do anything there. So now they have started a new theme that they’ll do Ayurveda, herbal medicines. And- but for Ayurveda why do you want to go to them? You can go directly to Ayurveda. It’s all money-making proposition, that’s all. He has crores and crores of Rupees in India. I don’t know how people believe him.

Man interviewer: Do You have any target at all?
Shri Mataji: I have any?
Man interviewer: Target. Are You so trying to develop everybody into –
Shri Mataji: What is that?
Another Sahaja Yogi: Do You have a target? Are You trying to get a certain number of people in a certain amount of time?
[Shri Mataji laughs]
Shri Mataji: I mean, whatever of the target in the Bible, we have already crossed it.
Man interviewer: So You’re not trying to bring –
Shri Mataji: No, unlimited.
Man interviewer: Everybody?
Man interviewer: So You’re not trying to bring –
Shri Mataji: No, no.
No. But according to John, I think, the target is over now. So now, we have to think about something unlimited. I think the Divine is anxious to get more and more people into it. He’s said it. He said 144 thousand. But we have crossed that limit definitely.
Man interviewer: Yeah, well I think [inaudible]
But one must hurry up, I think.
[Shri Mataji laughs]

But you see, they go to these gurus and things get so mesmerized, they can’t leave it and they also deal in the same way like this is bargain, you see: “Now make it cheaper for you, do this, do that” and people agree to such a thing. They play these tricks just like our salesmen do, they play some tricks: “Alright now, this is a bargain price if you want, we’ll charge you half, this that. That way” And people are really mad that they run into it and when they suffer, then they say: “No, no that’s not our responsibility, you’re no good. Because you’re so bad, you’re sinful, that’s why you didn’t get it.”
No responsibility. The laws are so funny but if you give somebody some money wilfully, nobody can challenge it: “Why did you give?” It’s cheating, complete cheating.
There’s one lady, she calls herself by Chidwilasananda, she’s a illigitimate daughter of Muktananda. She comes, she puts laser beam and comes with a wand, you know, goes round like this and she mesmerizes people, people just get really so sick with her. Once they have been to her, they get sick.
And she came to Canada before I went there. And then people challenged that: “Why did you not get income-tax from her.” They said: “No, she, she came as an entertainer.” And there’s a law – they know all the loop-holes of the law – there’s a law in Canada that somebody comes as an entertainer, he’ll not be charged income-tax.
So, they know all these things, they work it out that way. It’s a big racket and they never talk ill about each other. As Christ has said: “They will not talk against their own house.” Satan will not. They never talk. Nobody will say that this is wrong. “Oh, that’s good, this is good, that good.”
Like this Chinmoy also – same fellow, same type.
There’s big bribes he gave to people in UN, got into UN and I don’t know what he’s doing. So many of them, I feel ashamed because I’m also an Indian. But this kind of cheating they have done to ruin so many people, I feel very sorry for it. But also, people are also gullible and vulnerable.

Already Christ has described about the fake people, everybody has described. In India also they have described about it. But I don’t know, still, people take to them so easily, they’re so gullible.
Man interviewer: I find most people want a sign of some sort, some sort of a ritual-
Shri Mataji: They have no signs, nothing. Signs are – those who go to them are sick, they get cancer, they get all troubles. You see, what is the sign? They have no sign just, what signs they have like, they advertise very well, they have money to advertise or they make a big, what you call gimmick, some tricks – that’s all. –
Man interviewer: Yeah.
Shri Mataji: It’s absolutely one thing is said that: “The one who makes you get to God or the one who gives you Realization, is the only one who is a real master.” It’s said so clearly. But, they will never say: “We’ll give you Realization.” Never! That point they always miss out. And somebody says: “You give me Realization” They say: “You’re not capable, you’re useless.” They never say that: “We can give you Realization.”
And so many people have now come to us who went to drugs because of them. AIDS – this TM gives AIDS also. All the people actually, so far, who came to us were doing TM who got AIDS. Because they started a new sort of a nonsense that men and women should not see each other, so they were kept in two compartments. Naturally, they developed all these bad habits and they got AIDS.
These two persons who came to us even in Perth had done TM.
Sahaja Yogi: [Unclear]
Shri Mataji: So I think, if you are homosexual plus you go to these TM or anything, it triggers it.

You got them somehow [Shri Mataji laughs]
Sahaja Yogi: Ah yes, I got them tonight.
That’s the whole series. We have to get them all.

Shri Mataji: It’s the first one we had in a village.

Sahaja Yogi: That’s an amazing one at [unclear.]
Shri Mataji: This is a New Zealand girl, Cheryl, who did it. Now she is in Melbourne.
Sahaja Yogini: I was sitting next to her when she took it.
Shri Mataji: Really?
And all of you took photographs, nobody got it, it’s only she.
Sahaja Yogini: I wasn’t taking photographs but I remember the day it because it was overcast. And there was nothing above You, no awning or anything.
[Shri Mataji laughs]
Shri Mataji: In that village what do you get.
Sahaja Yogini: It was a cloudy day so there was no sunshine in the day, cause I was sitting there. Completely overcast day. And this aura.
Shri Mataji: And when I stopped it.
Sahaja Yogini: Yes, no doubt.
Shri Mataji: Very well done, this one is! It was an old village school, that’s all.
Sahaja Yogini: Yes. This is this enough picture? Have they enough?
Shri Mataji: I was saying, now stop it now.
[Shri Mataji laughs]

Man interviewer: Do these apparitions actually appear on Your person?
Shri Mataji: Yes, on Me. Just some play of lights
This one is also, I was going on a bullock-cart and suddenly this thing came up. Shield the whole thing completely.
Sahaja Yogi: Camera picks it up.
Another Sahaja Yogi: Only photographic.
Shri Mataji: Cameras are wonderful, I must say. Ordinary camera, even an ordinary camera sometimes gets it. Depends on the person, I think. Like, we were sitting in Calcutta and there was a lady, she said: “Mother, I want one miraculous photograph.” And she got a Sun and the Moon behind My head. And there are others, so many others have taken photographs, there’s nothing, only she has got it.
So, it’s just, I think, the person it depends on or the camera acts accordingly. Just imagine, a camera, which is an ordinary camera, gets these things.
Man interviewer: How do You explain it? Do You consider that You have some unusual power at all?
Shri Mataji: You see, if you are that, you don’t feel anything about it. If you’re not, then people think, like: “The Sun is there, so what? Sun has got its own powers. So what? Nothing so great!”
If I’ve got My own powers, it’s alright but if you achieve it, then that’s something great about it.
Man interviewer: I see, so already it’s Your power not an attracted power.
Shri Mataji: I beg your pardon?
Man interviewer: It is Your power not an attracted power
Shri Mataji: Not what power?
Man interviewer: An attracted power, power that’s attracted to You.
Shri Mataji: Attracted?
Another Sahaja Yogi: Is Your power, it’s not something You’re attracting to You?
Shri Mataji: No, no, no, no, I just emit, I just emit.
I don’t attract any power.
I just- ah, of course, I mean, supposing you have some troubles or something, that I absorb within Myself, but I don’t attract any power, I just emit.
Man interviewer: So You consider that light it’s actually coming from You rather than coming towards You?
Shri Mataji: This is what is the Divine light which is trying to convince you people
[Shri Mataji laughs]
Just to convince you, I think.
Man interviewer: Yeah.
Sahaja Yogi: Try its tricks.
Man interviewer: Very interesting, yeah.
Shri Mataji: So many, I mean, if you see, they will be surprised.
Sahaja Yogini: This is so like the pictures of you see in the Bible of Christ with the Grace coming down.
Shri Mataji: Ah, when He was praying in the Gethsemane, yes.
Sahaja Yogini: Yeah
Shri Mataji: In the garden, they show it. Now, some people did conceive it because I’ve seen also some of the very old paintings where the Christians are standing like this [with open hands], the disciples of Christ and they are putting their hands like this and there’s a light on their head. I’ve seen it.
Now, I’ve also seen some paintings with the light on the heart of Christ. I’ve seen such paintings. So, I think, in their unconscious, they saw all these things and they have painted it, yes.
Also in the sky!
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, in the sky.
Shri Mataji: Just tell them about that.
Another Sahaja Yogi: There has been, no one gets one here but there is a cloud pattern in particular which is- you can actually see without any imagination, you can see Shri Mataji’s face and all that.
Shri Mataji: That time I used to wear a diamond thing inside [the nose] and even My teeth and the gap between the teeth, everything is so visible into that.
It’s- they saw it in the sky.
First, you see, the sky became very luminous and there was one- one cloud became very luminous and the thread started coming out of that and then they weaved this thing. So, they just took the photograph and it turned out to be My photographs – two photographs.
One is with that and one is where I look like a Red Indian sort, that is also.
Sahaja Yogi: Shri Ganesha
Shri Mataji: Yes, that that’s the one, the first one started with. But later on these two photographs came in out of that pattern.
That’s how they got attracted otherwise nobody takes the photograph of the sky. So, first to make them feel attracted, you see, this luminous thing came in and it started weaving this. And then they took the photograph, it was My photograph.
And in the village there’s no question of this happening, you know, in a village – just took the photograph, it came out like that.

Man interviewer: So the interesting thing about the film editor is, the film is going through eighteen frames a second, or twenty-four frames a second.
Another Sahaja Yogi: About twenty-five, I think.
Man interviewer: Yeah, twenty-four. Now that means, that perhaps, that light is showing for 1/24th of a second. We just simply can’t see that.
Shri Mataji: And that’s how if somebody catches that, you get it.
Man interviewer: That’s right, on a camera.
Shri Mataji: Yes, must be that. That, that split of a second, some people catch it and they get it.
I know, I mean I know this is all happening, I know, I see Myself but the people don’t see. But after Realization, definitely, you see two things: one thing you see those commas, shining commas in the sky, that is the vibrations. And also you see looped round, round things looped like that in the sky. They always used to ask Me. I said: “These are dead souls.” Now, they have discovered.
I said: “The soul is on your back in seven loops and it manifests. It’s a reflection, on every cell, there’s a receptor.”
So now they have discovered that every cell has a receptor which has got something which has got seven loops, they can’t explain. And that, the picture of that is exactly what you see in the sky.
Even to talk about dead soul is a very difficult thing in the West. They don’t want to believe into anything. Whatever is discovered through science, they want to believe. But this science has no humanity, it has no art, it is so dry! Science is a wee part of the knowledge. We have to know so many other things.
This is how they have discovered now and thank God, those pictures He has sent to Me, exactly what you see.
So also it gives you a future plan in which direction to move for scientific approach. Now there are three doctors who have got MD in India because they have seen on twenty-five to thirty patients how Sahaja Yoga acts and cures them. Psychosomatic also, which is the most difficult area, psychosomatic. AIDS, all these incurable diseases come from that.

Man interviewer: How would You suggest we cure these?
Shri Mataji: Can you get a thing from My [Shri Mataji coughs]
Another Sahaja Yogi: Want lozenge, Shri Mataji?
Shri Mataji: Yeah, in the vanity. It’s too much now.
I don’t know how they smoke so much.
Man interviewer: You might be suffering from some –
Shri Mataji: And still continue to live.
Man interviewer: sort of Hay fever, I think, that’s quite common.
Shri Mataji: Very dangerous!
Yes, better have some Strepsil will do this
Another Sahaja Yogi: It’s only one Strepsil.
Shri Mataji: It’s alright, it’s alright. It’s alright.
Another Sahaja Yogi: Too much talking.
Shri Mataji: Ah, also these three musicians had, they got it from smokers but they don’t smoke at all, you see. And then I was curing them.
And also smoking, I mean, is, is a mess. We pay money to spoil our throats.
[Shri Mataji laughs]
But with this, smoking goes away, drugs go away, all bad habits. We become such a balanced person. So many are wasteful habits, you see, and so many are so destructive. Like this Grand Prix that they have, what is the need to do that madness? And already the people are getting so speedy, children are getting so speedy. There are diseases, like, now a new disease which I had announced about. I had told about the AIDS also about five, six years back, about eight years back I had told them. And I told about this new disease, Yuppies disease about three years back. You saw that that lady had it?
Another Sahaja Yogi: Yes
Shri Mataji: Where you, you become, you do everything unconsciously. But when you become conscious you can’t do it. Now, if you want to get up, you can walk off. But if you think: “I have to walk,” you can’t. The conscious mind has become so weak. This is Yuppies disease.
Another Sahaja Yogi: It was very interesting because it was like this. I said to her: “Pick that up.” And she will get hold of it and her hand would shake and she put it down. But if you just hand it to her, she takes it.
[Shri Mataji laughs]
It’s funny! But I told about this.
Because too much of futuristic ideas, too much of speed, you see, human-beings can’t bear certain speeds and the speed is so much gone into our being that our conscious mind has become weak. It’s very common in America, this disease, even in London. And doctors are treating now 3, 4 with Sahaja Yoga.

Also, doctors are little bit frightened about Sahaja Yoga because it cures people so they think what will happen to us, to our practices, you see? They’re little worried but there’re so many patients, they need not worry at all. Only those who come to Sahaja Yoga and get their Kundalini awakened, get all right. Everybody is not going to be all right. So they shouldn’t worry that they will lose their practice.

Man interviewer: Should we worry about the environmental law, can You help the?
Shri Mataji: No, if you get Realization, you shouldn’t worry about that also. Because if you get your Realization, what happens, a balance is established within you. Then you don’t go into imbalances. Actually, our imbalance has brought forth this imbalance outside.
Man interviewer: I see.
Shri Mataji: If human-beings get balance, there won’t be anything. The amount of things we create, there’s no need. And the machines are for us, we are not for the machines, we have become slaves of machines now. There’s no need to have so many machines. It should be in balance, whatever we need, that much. They have created mountains and mountains of plastics in America, mountains!
Also here I see so many cars, you see, just lying – as I don’t know what you call them and they are not reconverted into cars or something. Just these cars which are broken down, so many cars in Australia.
Man interviewer: Yes.
Shri Mataji: They should be reconverted.
Man interviewer: Recycled.
Shri Mataji: Ah.

But one Sahaja Yogi was saying that he’s found out a method by which he can make these toxic things into stones. I said, very good idea if you can make that then at least the toxic fumes may get into stones, you see, and these stones can be used for anything, pavement, anything. But he’s not been given so much recognition, so far by the government. Government should take it up seriously. Man interviewer: I think, basically that wouldn’t be much of a good idea, I guess because –
Shri Mataji: Unnh?
Man interviewer: Toxic stones are still-
Shri Mataji: Very good idea. But they are not paying any attention that’s what he told Me, this gentleman. What’s his name? You saw him in-
Another Sahaja Yogi: Perry Corden [unsure]. I think it’s Perry Corden, is it?
Sahaja Yogi: Did you call Mother?
Another Sahaja Yogi: The toxins were actually burned off and they just, they locked in–
Man interviewer: Destroyed actually, the toxins.
Another Sahaja Yogi: Yeah. So there’s no, there’s no [unclear]
Sahaja Yogi: It’s apparently by burning of the toxins so it ends up with a type of a hard substance like a stone.

Shri Mataji: Also they have discovered this Solar energy business but is not so easily available to people Solar energy should be much more easily available. It’s so expensive to install that nobody in India wants to use it. We have so much of Solar energy. If they could make it cheaper, we won’t have any energy problem in our country.
Another Sahaja Yogi: They are working a lot on that here Shri Mataji. They’ve got a whole town, now in New South Wales that uses Solar power.
Shri Mataji: It’s true but, you see, you can afford to pay so much, not, Indians, can’t. They are still experimenting.
Shri Mataji: Still experimenting.
Sahaja Yogi: I think, a few companies also try to slow the research because they lose money through allowing Solar power to get to home.
Man interviewer: I believe that BP, British Petroleum is it?- are the leaders in Solar Power at this stage. And Australia has quite a significant
Shri Mataji: Really?
Man interviewer: Yes, one of the topmost firms.
Shri Mataji: But it should go to the poor countries, you see, where there is so much of sun. It can solve their problem. It should be available at a price that they can afford. I tried to make it for our house ‘Pratishthan’ but it costs you more than having about 30 heaters in the house. So I mean, nobody would do it.

Another Sahaja Yogi: Now they still haven’t really got a good Solar collector – they’re still trying to find one.
Shri Mataji: That’s, that’s I was saying so. They haven’t got something like that.
Man interviewer: Yes, it’s very inefficient.
Shri Mataji: It could be liquidified, you see, supposing somehow or other. If you can bring it to the liquid state then it can be used much better. This research must come from Australia, must come, because they have lot of Solar energy here. Otherwise, in England they don’t have , I mean, the Western countries don’t have much of Solar energy except for your country. And they should go into it deeply and they can work it out. I think, just they should think about it, they can help a lot. Instead of giving money to poor countries, better give them such inventions.
Man interviewer: Yeah, they don’t seem to utilize the money in the right way, do they?
[Shri Mataji laughs]

Shri Mataji: It’s quite a waste !
[Shri Mataji laughs]
If they stop elections, it will be a good idea, for some time. [Shri Mataji laughs]
Today I was reading newspaper, there’s nothing but elections. I said: “What about some news about other people?” Nothing. It’s all election, election, election.
Man interviewer: Yeah, I guess we will have to wait until –
Shri Mataji: I beg your pardon?
Man interviewer: Next week or week after.
Shri Mataji: Next week, yes. That’s My birthday.
Another Sahaja Yogi: Tomorrow.
Shri Mataji: Hum?
Another Sahaja Yogi: Tomorrow.
Shri Mataji: That’s it, tomorrow.
Let’s see.

Man interviewer: Yeah, I guess we have enough.
Shri Mataji: It will help young people very much because they can be saved from drugs, that’s the point is and it’s a big attack. I’m told now that area of Colombia is getting nervous and they’re going towards Spain, quite a lot, and from Spain is diverted directly to Australia.
So you’re under attack. And when it comes here, I mean, you can’t stop it.
England is, of course, is quite into it, no doubt, in a very bad shape. They have put the military now to stop it. But they can’t. They have so many harbors, so many things, it’s very difficult. Because Amsterdam, they have allowed it, it’s a legal thing in Amsterdam. So it comes to Amsterdam and from there London is so close, you know. You can come by so many ways.
That’s a very dangerous, dangerous thing they have done in Amsterdam – is to allow it.

Sahaja Yogi: Young people are so susceptible to it because there it is disillusion.
Shri Mataji: Because you are under tensions, you see, and you want to escape.
You want to escape reality because reality as you see, is so, so full of tensions and full of worries and full of sort of a fear. So to escape that people take to it . But if they come to Sahaja Yoga they know that reality is beautiful, then they don’t have to escape anything.
So many have been saved in England, he knows very well, out of drugs, so many.
But Sahaja Yoga must be accepted by governments, then only it will work out faster. The government is very slow. They have to have a regular sort of an organization which should come to you with lots of advertisements and money and this.
That we don’t do, that’s the only problem.

Another Sahaja Yogi: I have a daughter who stopped using heroin in three weeks.
Stopped.

Shri Mataji: Smoking they stop overnight, so many. There was only one girl who said, “Mother, still I smoke little bit.” The other day she gave up, now she’s alright.
Another Sahaja Yogi: She’s had a big problem with that.
Shri Mataji: You don’t have to say prohibition or anything, yes. They don’t also drink at all, they’re very happy, healthy, nothing wrong with them. They don’t even drink.
Imagine in England people have stopped drinking, can you believe it? Where the pubs open at 6 0′clock in the morning.
Man interviewer: Yeah, I think, there are a few places in Canberra and Sydney which open pretty early too.
Shri Mataji: I beg your pardon?
Man interviewer: I think, there’s a few places around in Australia that open pretty early too.

Shri Mataji: But it happens automatically, you don’t have to tell yourself or anything, just happens. You just become a different personality, it just happens to you. Nothing can dominate you.
Man interviewer: You don’t do it yourself.
Shri Mataji: I beg your pardon?
Man interviewer: It just happens.
Shri Mataji: Just happens. You become like that, like a saint, you see. You just don’t drink, you don’t like it, finished.

Man interviewer: Do You consider Yourself a saint?
Shri Mataji: Do You?
Man interviewer: Do You consider Yourself a saint?
Shri Mataji: I don’t know, I don’t want to put Myself into any category, into any category whatsoever. Because you see, when you tell about Yourself, is dangerous these days. Even before, like Christ said the greatest truth that He was the Son of God, no doubt about it, but they crucified Him. So I want to live for some time.
Man interviewer: So, You’re quite happy with Your followers calling You saint?
Shri Mataji: I beg your pardon?
Man interviewer: You’re quite happy with Your followers considering that You like considering and explaining to other people that You are saint.
Shri Mataji: I don’t say that. These people call Me saint, everything. I don’t say anything about Myself because I say: “You come to Sahaja Yoga, get your light and know Me.” It’s better.
Another Sahaja Yogi: I think perhaps, the answer to your question, lies in another question: “What is a saint?”
Man interviewer: Yeah, that’s true.
Shri Mataji: He asked?
Another Sahaja Yogi: Now what is a saint Shri Mataji?
Shri Mataji: I mean what is a saint is the one who is, who is connected with the Divine, is the saint. Simple thing as that. That I am, but I am much more than that.

Man interviewer: What is Your relationship with God?
Shri Mataji: With whom?
Man interviewer: With God?
Shri Mataji: Gandhi?
Another Sahaja Yogi: With God?
Shri Mataji: With God.
[Shri Mataji laughs]
Man interviewer: What is Your relationship?
Shri Mataji: Quite close.
[Big laughter]
Quite close, but it’s better that people should find it out after getting the light, so they believe in it. No use, just now, saying: “I’m this, I’m that. ” It’s not proper because human-beings don’t like it, their ego gets challenged: “Why You?” They also ask Me: “Why You should give Realization?” I said: “You’d better do it, I’ll retire, very good. If you can do it, well do it.”
Yeah. So it’s, that’s why it’s better to be on the quiet, let them find out. Gradually, they do find out.

Man interviewer: And do You see some successor following You when You die at all?
Shri Mataji: Successor?
Man interviewer: Yeah, do You have a successor?
Shri Mataji: No, no, not yet. That’s all spontaneously we work out, I’m sure. I don’t have to do that. There’s nothing like successor or all that. They’re all Realized souls, all of them are successors.
Man interviewer: I see.
Shri Mataji: Yes. There’s not one single person.

That’s My father’s photograph. Show him.
He was also a Realized soul.

And he was a great Nationalist who sacrificed everything for Indian freedom and he was jailed. My mother also, she was Honors of Mathematics, she also went to jail. All our family sacrificed.
This is during Your –
Shri Mataji: I beg your pardon?
Man interviewer: Freedom. Fight for freedom.
Shri Mataji: Yeah. Then he changed his cap and everything but he was an advocate, he was a lawyer.
Man interviewer: Yes.
Shri Mataji: So I come from a family of that kind which was very enlightened and very sort of sacrificing, very devoted to India, Indian struggle of life, struggle of Independence. I was with Gandhiji also from My childhood. I met very nice people in India. Those were the days where very nice people came up and now as soon as we got our independence, all the selfish people are there to take seats in the Parliament.
Man interviewer: Do You have any prophecies in relation to how India will-

Shri Mataji: Not yet, but maybe later, why not?
Man interviewer: Not yet.
Shri Mataji: Because prophecies then take your attention to future so is best is to do your work – and it just expands gradually.
Man interviewer: I see.
Yeah, I think we –
Shri Mataji: Alright?
Man interviewer: Yeah.
Another Sahaja Yogi: You would not like to stop, isn’t it?
Man interviewer: Pardon?
Another Sahaja Yogi: You would not like to stop.
Man interviewer: Yeah.
Shri Mataji: He’s going into thoughtless awareness himself. Now, you just put your hands like this, you’ll get your Realization, no doubt.
Put your both the feet separate from each other.
Just see on his head, he’s got it already.
Feeling the cool breeze?

[Shri Mataji laughs]
Shri Mataji: You got it. Yeah.
Man interviewer: Yeah.
Shri Mataji: That’s it.
What about you [Hashim]? Just put your hands like this.
You really relaxed.
You got it too, it’s there. And this is the cool breeze of the Holy Ghost. Ah!
It’s better now?

That’s the silence within yourself you feel it.
Alright, so may God bless you!
Man interviewer: Yes, it has been very interesting!
Shri Mataji: Very nice meeting you, very nice meeting you.

Man interviewer: I hope You have a good stay and You come again sometime.
Shri Mataji: Alright, thank you very much.
Man interviewer: Take care.
Shri Mataji: Thank you for this, thank you.
Man interviewer: Bye-bye.

Another Sahaja Yogi: Shri Mataji, would You like a cup of tea?
Shri Mataji: I think, I’ll go inside first.

Man interviewer: [Sounds like I hope it was not boring]
Sahaja Yogi: I’m sure it wasn’t.
[Shri Mataji laughs]
Shri Mataji: [To Hashim] Namastey.
Come here.
He’s from what country you said?
Hashim: Malaysia.
Shri Mataji: Malaysia, ah!
Hashim: Thank You.
Shri Mataji: Malaysia. Malaysia we have a very good center now and mostly Chinese, mostly Chinese are coming.
Hashim: I’ve not been home for thirteen years.
Shri Mataji: Yeah, really? You’ve been here, annh? Good.
Hashim: For that long [inaudible.] Thank You Shri Mataji!

Shri Mataji: You had Ubedullah as your Senator, you know that? Ubedullah, who was the President of the Parliament there, Mr. Ubedullah.
Hashim: Ubedullah?
Shri Mataji: Ha, he’s got his Realization too.
Hashim: Senator in the-
Shri Mataji: He was a Senator.
Hashim: In the UN.
Shri Mataji: Yes and he was also President of the Parliament. I mean what you call that, the Chairman of the Parliament there. He got his Realization.
Hashim: What do You think of him?
Shri Mataji: Hum?
Hashim: What do You think of him?
Shri Mataji: What did You?
Another Sahaja Yogi: What do You think of him?
Shri Mataji: He’s a very good man, I must say, very good man.
Hashim: Yeah, the reason I asked this because being Malayry and controlling the country where the three races can be quite difficult.
Shri Mataji: He knows all these problems, he knows that. He said: “The people are so ignorant here, so conditioned, ” So he says: “You can’t talk about it to anyone.” But the Chinese have come out. Chinese are taking to it and also some Indians, but more Chinese. But Indians which are abroad are like uprooted people and they have lost their capacity. Like I say that if you take a mango tree to London, it can’t produce mangoes, but it can’t even produce apples. That’s what happens to people who get uprooted, sometimes.
[Laughter]
But yesterday some Indians got it, some from the Indian High Commission, even from Pakistan. They got their Realization. Yesterday was quite a cosmopolitan and there were some Russians there. Six, seven from the Embassy. Now they are feeling very confident, Russians. I think they’ll come everywhere.
Another Sahaja Yogi: I’m getting along with them [unsure] a bit more.
Sahaja Yogi: They were very accessible, Shri Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Very good!
Sahaja Yogi: The American Embassy was very difficult to get into.
Shri Mataji: Ah!
Sahaja Yogi:You had to press buzzers and ring numbers and you went round and round the switchboard with the telephone, we couldn’t communicate.
Shri Mataji: Americans only are fond of fake gurus that’s all. But, you see, the Russian ambassador in Delhi came to see Me twice.
I don’t know what’s gone wrong with Russians [Americans?]. Ego, I think too much ego.
They only like people who pamper their ego, perhaps or I don’t know what they do. So many false gurus in America, so many of them. They have witchcraft, they have all kinds of things, all kinds of things. So violent, that country is so violent, it’s a demonocracy, cannot call it a democracy. You can’t go anywhere safe, it’s a very dangerous place and people shoot you for nothing. It’s a very bad place, America now.
And it was very nice because when I went there first time, in ’69 I went there, it was a very clean, nice place. But now you find it’s so dirty and so different. It’s changed so much in this twenty years time, very much.
No, thirty years isn’t it, ’69 means, oh, yes.
Another Sahaja Yogi: ’69 is twenty years.
Shri Mataji: Twenty years.
Even London. I must say London was very bad. And now it’s coming up well.
Sahaja Yogi: All fish back in the river.
Shri Mataji: Yes, back in the river.
Sahaja Yogi: All sort of things.
Shri Mataji: Back in the river, fish. Now London is improving very much.
But it had gone down so badly. First I went in ’65, then it was good. But the hippies’ things have started and by the time it was ’70, I think, it was at the peak of the hippy era, where I picked up seven hippies.
[Shri Mataji laughs]
But now, people are getting sensible, sensible but.
Sahaja Yogi: Not Mrs. Thatcher though.
Shri Mataji: Hum?
Sahaja Yogi: Not Mrs. Thatcher.
Shri Mataji: Oh!
[Laughter]
I don’t know how they like her, she’s terrible. She bought all those conventional armament. I always used to say: “Why’s she buying, they’ll be useless.” And now the NATO has said that: “We’ll not allow these things to work out, these short-range missiles.” And she’s spent all the national money in that! So all this national money. She wouldn’t have the children maid, she wouldn’t have many public services like buses and all that. And national money was spent in buying those missiles and now NATO has said that it won’t be used.
Sahaja Yogi: They said in the newspaper here Mother that the iron lady is starting to go rusty.
[Shri Mataji laughs]
I don’t know.
I met her many a times. But on the table, she would ask Me: “Why Indians are so nice, they’re not so violent, Pakistanis are much more violent, why Muslims are more violent? ” Or she would ask: “How do You solve Your family problems, why don’t You have divorces? ” All these questions she asked Me. So, I thought, she’s trying to sort of praise the family life. She did also, she did.
But, you see, just talking about it doesn’t work out. You have to do something about it.

I think, she might learn a lesson, might be also. She has to be more humane and understand. But the way she has allowed also another thing, is to take away as much money as you like, from England cash, you can take. So all these black marketeers are sending their money out and this was very dangerous to do. Formerly, we could only take twenty-five pounds cash with us. Everything had to be in traveller’s cheques. But now anybody can take out any, as much as you like, cash money bags full. This is another thing she did, a wrong thing. So, all the money is now going out of London.
One or two things she’s really committed big mistakes.

All right,
May God bless you.

Alright, you take this [Shri Mataji’s spectacles].
Another Sahaja Yogi: The shawl, Ann? [Unsure]
Shri Mataji: Thank you very much.

Shri Mataji [To the interviewer]: Now you meet these people and master it yourself. It will help you very much in your radio programs also because you’ll emit vibrations.
These communications are so helpful! You see, this is God has sent because you’ll emit your vibrations through it, it spreads all over.
Man interviewer: Ok, I will go.

[Shri Mataji is walking out the room]