Talk to Yogis. Mumbai (India), 20 January 1975.
[Translation from Hindi to English]
In Kali Yuga, there is no greater method than forgiveness. The larger the power of forgiveness, the more powerful you will be. Forgive everyone. Only the one who is big can forgive. What can a small minded person forgive?
I had said this morning to know the Dharma. Know the Dharma that is within you. You are standing in Dharma. The one who is standing in Dharma has such tremendous powers within. Know this Dharma. Aah! It is so beautiful, those who are standing in Dharma. The one who is standing on Adharma we do not have a competition with him. We are standing in Dharma. Our ways are different. The one who is standing in Dharma his method is different from the one who is standing in Adharma. The one who is standing in Dharma cannot have any accord with one who is standing in Adharma. We are having problems, discomforts but we are standing in our Dharma. It is the greatest thing. Know your Powers within which is only based on Dharma.
And Dharma is nothing but love. And if love is everything then forgiveness becomes its part. How much can a person commit atrocities by seeing our love? How much evil can a person do? How much can another trouble you, upset you? Let them. Everything will be washed away with love. This is the only way in Kali Yuga that works out. I can’t understand any other way. If you think that there should be some old methods to use then it is not possible.
There is only one reason which I have told you before and I am telling you again that there are no complete saints or sadhus in this world. In each sadhu, they have sent one, one rakshasa. They must have gone into your attention. Have you understood? If it is some sadhu then its all right. “Paritraya Sadhunam vinashaya cha duskritaam” ( for the redemption of the saints and the destruction of the devils). But if with the sadhu there is the devil sitting inside then he will have to be removed with a lot of love, isn’t it? What a difficult work this is! You are standing in the saintly position and there is also the devil within. But if you are standing as a saint and there is a devil within, you can remove it. But tell me how many pure souls are there in this world? It’s a difference of degrees. And those who are going towards sainthood should collect saintliness. They should have nothing to do with those who are not saintly. They are unsaintly, thieves and bilanders! What comparison with them? They are thieves and we cannot be them, they cannot be us. It just cannot be. They are moving on another line and we moving on another line.
To rise in Dharma is the aim of Sahaja Yoga. There is no other aim. It is a straight calculation. Sahaja Yoga has nothing to do with any of these things. You have to be awakened in your own Dharma, you have you get your own light and to know yourself. Someone says, “Mataji, what to do? My chakra is caught this way, this or that has happened.” To move them this way or that are all primordial movements, which I am telling you. “Adi gati”, Primordial movements, primordial. These have been made. But to make it flow in a pure manner….if there are mixed things within then when you move your hands then it is moving mixed.
Without forgiveness, purity cannot come within. When purity will come then the light of Dharma will be spread…Pure and Nirmal. Means the one who has Dharma will have to come into the light. Will have to talk about it, speak about it. But he should note in his own behavior whether he is seeing Dharma or Adharma. If I had given you a lecture before Realization, it would have been very wrong because it is a conditioning and that is the reason that all psychologists have finished the dharma. They teach that whatever Dharma, they teach don’t do this , don’t do that. So, the mind gets conditioned.
But now this will not happen. Now whatever you want from the mind you can do. There will be no conditioning at all. Because I have taken your chitta and put it between ego and super- ego. Dharma is rising by itself and you have done that. You have found its way. And whatever worldly things you have known…that it is like this or that in the world, with that you cannot measure the Divine. You cannot join the value of Divine with that. I am talking about Divine and you are joined to the worldly. The three dimensions of worldliness have finished. Those who want to move to the fourth dimension with seriousness and depth… I am talking about the fourth dimension… You cannot know the value of the Divine through worldly things.
What or how have we been troubled? Not at all troubled… I say that we are very comfortable. The way I have seen difficulties and seen people in terrible difficulties and you will not find their descriptions also. These are such super rascals and such descriptions I cant explain. But the state of society is much better now. And even your state is very good. But you must not deceive and cheat yourself. It is a straight calculation. Whatever you are doing with Sahaja Yoga you are doing with yourself.
Now this question arises many times in administration. Such a question arises that what should we do? Is this correct or not. But this is so easy, so easy that before taking any decision go into Thoughtlessness. Whatever decision comes in front do that. That can never be wrong. But the decision will be spontaneous in thoughtlessness. And if you took that decision in thought then it will be biased because your ego and super ego both will work in that. Whatever are your “samskaras”, or worldly things you have earned will be standing behind you. But if you do it in thoughtlessness then it will be an “abhinav”, Divine, a miracle. A miracle. So, when I am talking about Divinity then whatever worldly created ideas – pre-conceived ideas of human beings cannot guide God. You must know that. He has His own standing and His own Being. If you desire that God becomes like you then it is similar to the one who sells God for four rupees and says I will place him there. You will reach that level. He will as He is give Light and you keep seeking your path.
You must know your Dharma within. To know your Dharma is very necessary, as to what a beautiful thing has been placed in you. In this destructible body what an indestructible thing is flowing. Just like a confluence of the three rivers, Ganga, Saraswati and Yamuna. Its stream is flowing. You cannot know this thing with the destructible within, or that which is worldly. For a second, go into thoughtlessness and when you take decisions, you will take such decisions which is not in the likes of many- dynamic! Absolutely dynamic! Then worry, fear, anger, servility, slavishness, inferiority and all complexes will all fall away. He will speak in his grandeur. He has his own humility. Because he is so gentle, so gentle and delicate, that it is impossible to know how he came in. Just like the moonlight came in.
So, now that you have been chosen then your importance is very great. Now you maybe thinking that I am such an ordinary person, how come I have been chosen? The choosing will be among ordinary people only. And these very, very great people whom you see in this world who are highly awarded, they will all become missing links. It has always happened. In every stage of evolution this has happened you have seen. All those who were great mammoths, became over developed physically, they are all finished. They were missing links. Only the elephant got saved. In the same way those who were over-developed mentally they are now coming like the fox. And from those also there are much more developed. But from them the dog got saved. In the same way it is in the humans who will rise from the ordinary. This has always happened that it has risen from the ordinary. And the so called extraordinary who are the third dimension, they are not going to do anything. They will become the missing links in the evolution stage. People will not know them as they don’t know that the chimpanzee was a missing link.
In evolution only ordinary people will be chosen. One has to be normal. All these big Sanyasis who are roaming are not going to reach anywhere, you will see. They will all go into the missing link. And these highly awarded- I have given Realization to all these kings, secretaries, but to what avail? They are all sitting on their positions. Do they feel that why the light should be lit within us? They write to me that I am feeling great joy… Do they think of doing something about this? That we have got it and should share it? When you have a special place then you have to be special too. From this ordinary only will the extraordinary come out. Only that will blossom. Slowly, you yourself will understand that they all are extremely foolish; who can talk to them? They might be big doctors, so what? They are just sitting. They have done nothing of value.
Our position is very high. For this you cannot be educated. There can be no education that I am going to teach you A B C D. This is to be experienced with your daily experience. This morning I had told you something very great that in Sahaja Yoga you are a part of the whole, not of the individual, but the whole. Know this point.
Gagangiri Maharaj is very great. At a much higher position than you people, let us assume. But for twenty-on thousand years he was just going around in circles, poor man. Where did it happen spontaneously. He took rebirths twenty-one thousand times, kept falling at the feet of God and lived in jungles then only did he get these vibrations. And now how come you are getting it so easily? Because this is a new world. It is a new thing. You are the parts of this body of the Virata. He was made a symbolic man. But you are all in the Collective. The one who wants to get out of the collective he must know that he will become cancer and be destroyed. None of you is good or bad. One finger pains and the other finger will press it. If this hand pains the other will press it. You are all joined together. You know that. When you can share your badhas, then why cant you share your wealth? You catch badhas immediately, but why not wealth? The entire reason is this that at the moment we are just walking. You are still very little children. We are going to burn ourselves, fall down a bit. One day when you grow up you will take the hands of thousands and make them walk. If you get cheated, doesn’t matter. You are little. Come into innocence. But those who are cheating and thinking that they are very clever must know that they will be removed like cancer.
There is another way too, where the one who goes never returns. But there is also a way to hell. Lot of people walk on that way. They think that to come in front of Mataji, touch Her feet, wash Her feet means they are great Sahaja Yogis. This way is also moving alongside. When the flower blossoms then anything that has to fall off the bud falls out and breaks and the fragrance comes out of that. That which has to grow, grows; and that which has to fall, falls. They both move together. Life is like that. That which has to grow, life will make it and the one that has to die, life will finish it. But there is a time for its storing and they go too. And some go in such a way and they never return.
From the animal state you become humans and what is the use that you become insects after the human birth. Your competition should be on Dharma. Are we in Dharma or not? Think like this for yourselves and about others think that how deep are they in Dharma. And if they are in Adharma then why are they so? What chakra of theirs is catching? Look at it without expectations. Its only a chakra catching? Then you can remove it by just sitting here by your desire. If he is a gone case then let it be. He has got cancer. Leave it. But the one whom you feel sympathies with and one whom you feel will become all right, can be improved, you have the ways. These are primordial movements and you can put them right with those. Share with each other. Increase each others chakras. You should not feel bad at all. The one who feels bad he will be as wrong as the one who is troubling others. To feel bad and to trouble are the same; are the two parts of the same movement. So one should not feel bad at all. If someone says your chakra is catching you should be grateful to him that he could recognize it and you could not. If someone points out to you that a snake is biting, you are grateful to that person, so the one’s whose chakra has been caught up should feel grateful that person that he has pointed it out and you can clean it. Never feel bad.
You are so different from others because you have felt the vibrations. How many have felt it? You are greater than the big people. But as yet you are children. You are children in Sahaja Yoga. Pope doesn’t have any vibrations. All these so called Great people, these Shankaracharyas, and all, no one knows what kind of vibrations they have. You people can give realization and take them beyond. And you are twirling the Kundalinis of people. What a great thing you are doing. Besides Ganesha no one else could do this before. That is why the snake which is in Shri Ganesha’s hand is symbolic. With that he would twirl the Kundalinis of people. At least you have got one of the powers that you can raise the Kundalini of all. And still you are looking at the worldly. It is Divine, timeless. It has no location. It puts everything right. Just as much as it is delicate and loving that much it is destructive. It will move according to its way. You just move the way you have to.
First of all put your Heart Chakra right. Clean your heart. Is our heart clean or not? Do we have anger towards anyone? Do we have suspicion for another in our hearts? Check your heart. Heart is the greatest thing because the heart controls the brain, and it is from the heart that we do all work. Yours and My connection is with the heart only. So clean you heart chakra completely. On our part we think that a thing is like this Why the heart chakra? How much love have we given? How much did we trouble another? Mr Desai wrote to me that you have helped my wife so much. I was very Happy. Then Mr Desai wrote a very helpless letter about his wife. I said to so many people I have given so much and how has did she die? I sent her vibrations from London. You must help each other in every way. Love each other. We will all become one in this bandhan. We are one body of the Virata. And you people are sitting there on the Sahasrara of the Virata. I have made you sit on the Sahasrara of the Virata. And what madness are you doing! I have to make one thousand humans sit on the Sahasrara of the Virata Purusha. It looks like a big thing. By my saying this how many of you are feeling vibrations in your hand? You understand about the Kundalini, there is no doubt among any of you? What of Me? I have ploughed the land and will wait and watch.
I know everything. Whatever you do anywhere I know it. Nothing is hidden from me. Within you all there is a lot of mess. You should live in your Dharma, Peaceful and balanced. You have got a very big thing. Be satisfied. What is this making plans? What is this, like a stupid person. Other people may do this but you all? For little things…this is not done…that is not done. What is this? this is not done…that is not done….? In which direction are you going and thinking? You have to go to Delhi from here, and you think what is the price of flour there? But you have to go where no flour or anything works.
Dharma works there so know the value of Dharma. What is the need for Dharmic people to know the price of lentils and flour? Or what politics is cooking there? You know it. If you did not feel vibrations then it is a different thing. This flowing of vibrations is very little. As yet you are babies. I am not ready to even celebrate one year of your birth so at this stage a Ram Ram (taking god’s name) has been done forcefully. Look at yourselves. I am not going to tell you. ‘Has any change come into me or not? Has peace come within me or not? Has any change come or not?’
I have pulled you out from the very subtle nadi within the Sushumna. I have pulled you on a very line which is as fine as a strand of hair. The Sushumna itself is as wide as a strand of hair, and there are 4 layers on top of it. But it is through these vibrations that people are getting better. One lady came whose face looked different. She said her asthma got cured. What is so great that asthma got cured, cancer got cured! This is bound to happen. Whats so great about it? If you got electricity in your house then everything will become visible. If the electricity came in it brought light. What is so important about that? But by the light coming in what knowledge did you get? What new dimension did you see? What new thing did you do?
What I am saying, is it going through your head or your heart? If it goes through your head then there will be arguments. A dogma will be made of it. Let it go through the heart, there will be light. If you want to enjoy love then bring it to the heart. The Heart Chakra is what the Christians call the Sacred Heart. Within it is the place of Bhavani, Durga which is a very great place. It is not within you to understand Durga. That all the rakshasas are also Her children. The whole world is Hers. A mother’s Shakti destroyed them for the sake of Her love for Her children. To pull one’s own hands is very difficult. To give an injection to oneself with one’s own hands is very difficult. So, to kill one’s own children to protect other children is even more difficult.
But to kill is a very great act of the Shakti; a very great act of forgiveness. That is Her power of forgiveness but in Kali Yuga there is no need for you people to become Bhavani. Just become peaceful. Very peaceful…very peaceful. Your peacefulness will take forward the work of Sahaja. You will see that people will say that in Sahaja Yoga we have seen such people who were so full of anger, who were statues of servility and completely suppressed, have become miraculously changed. You are your own advertisements. What other advertisement do you want? People should say what a man he is. He has such a large heart and is so wide in all aspects. It is happening. There is a lot of change from before. But it can be done with full force. It is now all upto you. Just as you understand, feel, listen to others, hear others peacefully. Feel others. You have got it en masse with others. Like this hand knows from the other hand; and from the same hand the brain also knows; the heart also knows and all these are moving together integrated.
In the same way, you will have to integrate. Then only will the thousand hands be ready, which in human form will be used. The same thousands hands which have come out from the Sahasrara of the Virata will come out from human beings. And these humans will be very ordinary. No great Rishis or Munis are needed for this to make them sit on the chakras. All these big people are sitting on the chakras. Only the ordinary will come out from the Sahasrara.
I am saying that start bathing each other every morning in your own homes with vibrations. First check your chakras between yourselves and then go out after bathing. Keep on cleaning. Everything becomes pure.
There is such turmoil in the world. You have no idea as to what is going on. A criminality is about to come. There is such a rule of the rakshasas which you are not aware of. And the rakshasas speak in such a way that they have a great fraternity. They stick to each other like glue. And among us, the way they work that they fall in an instant. Another falls there! That too in freedom. The rakshasas have a great unity. What fun they are having by killing one and throttling another.
When the group of saints will be made, then just think what can be! Saints have never had a group. This is the first time. But if the saints give up their sainthood then what is the use of such a group? All the qualities of a saint should shine through from you. Now tell all your worldly and gross problems before. Then we will do the puja at leisure. Take all this questions’ cow dung and throw it out. If someone has more faults then you can get together and put him right. But keep it without expectations. You are not you and the same with the other. So, have no expectations and be awakened to another in that state.
If someone has a lot of problems then put him right. But you should not feel bad. If someone feels bad then do it subtly. Treat him like who is sick. When you are coming to my feet then you can always tell by signaling. Each one will point out the same thing. So clear out the problem. We should all clear out each other together. There is no difference but it actually happens that one moves five steps ahead and then six steps behind. So the question is, “After how many years will they reach? Or will they ever reach?” When you are in awareness then all will move in unison. Like the ocean is huge but its waves move together. The movement should move together.
Man: Please don’t feel bad, may I say that I am neither here or there. In a small group this happens that they think that he is big, or he is small, his chakras are new, he has this “badha” and this or that. I listen to both…
Shri Mataji: Now it is like this, you have one stick. Either you hit yourself or hit another. Better that you hit yourself. There is no big or small. There is no seniority in this. There is a reason for this that you have come from the worldly. Where you see that one is big, one is small, one is officer, one is below, one is this or that, one is king. Then one is sadhu, one is sanyasi. This is nothing but a churning. One is up then down, up and then down. I am just churning and nothing else. But we have to see who steals the butter. This churning is going on. Sometimes the cold will come sometimes the heat will come. The butter will come on top. The butter will float as it has become light. There is no high or low in this. Look at Modi, where he is. I purposely pushed the Kundalini there. Did you see that? No one is big or small. The one who thinks that I am big, or small, then remember then there is the Mahamaya sitting there. I will catch hold of the Kundalini in a such that I will see who is superior or inferior. The ones who think they are very great will be out.
I will deliberately make the Kundalini go down a few times. Because if I don’t make it go down then raise it and again I make it go down, and again raise it then it will not work out. I will deliberately make it go down.
[The man who is talking to Shri Mataji is an old man. So, Shri Mataji says:]
Old people will also have to be a little wiser. This is for all the old people. I too am included in this!! All the elderly people should know that in the worldly life you people are the leaders. You are the elders in the worldly way. So you all should be especially better. All of you become one. You should tell the children in this worldly way. Like Mr Modi, he is a very great man no doubt. But he also goes down. But one thing I have noticed that in every letter he makes a confession. His attention is on himself all the time. That is why I am fond of him as he confesses as to his faults, that Ma you are right. Such a person will be able to climb the first ladder. He wants to go higher he will climb again and again. But the one who thinks I am on a very high ladder….. We should look within and think within and see that we are climbing and falling, climbing and falling. It happens to everyone, because a churning is going on. In the churning [Samudra Manthan] there is no special position for anyone. The way of Sahaja Yoga is like a drama and is something that is new and never been tried before. No one has ever done it or such a churning has taken place.
One Gagangiri Maharaj sat for years in the forests doing tapasya. His churning did not take place. He made himself on his own power all alone. His matter is different. Yes he got the guidance as Ganesha’s guidance to you all. But who shakes his head many times? How to make him understand? You are Ganeshas. In fact, you are babies. They are stuck in My churning, poor things. One thing is true, that whether he is Shankaracharya or someone else, but no one knew so much about vibrations, the technicalities, the primordial, the movements. Read Shankaracharya or others, where is it written? It is not written anywhere.
[Shri Mataji greets a little girl who just came and related a story about her granddaughter, Aradhana.]
These highly realized souls have come on this earth, who are amazing! They are all getting ready within the age of 10 or 12 years. But till then you people don’t break my platform by wrestling among yourselves!! If this is done then will my children do then?! They have come to play a big game. Now a little bit is alright but no dance of destruction! The organization will become harmonious when this movement becomes one. If one man is speaking more then just cool down. Cool down! Cool down! You feel cool so become cool also. Not hot, just cool. Coolness…Seriousness…. I am cool, on absolute zero. Earlier one went to the Himalayas. Now there is no need for the Himalayas. You can all start your air-conditioners here. Be alert towards yourselves. Look at your own faults. Look at your own chakras and help the chakras of others secretly. There is no need to tell. You can move your hands secretly. When realisation is happening while walking on the road then what! The more secretly you do the more pure it will be. The more love-filled it will be. It feels very good when something gets done secretly. It is happening with the land. They are saying it is being done, it will be done in whatever way. For that one person should get after the land. Ring up Swami Sahib and phone him and find out about the land. They will do it. (The Sahaja Yogis discuss with Shri Mataji whom they have to meet for the land.)
I want a program in April and I wanted to talk about the incarnation of the Adi Shakti. But at this stage perhaps it is too early as yet people do not understand what the Adi Shakti is. This Dilip Kumar the cinema person has also got his realization as he knows my brother very well. My brother told me that he can ask Dilip and get the cinema people to help as well. So please tell me. If you want then the poetry on the Adi Shakti, different types, then we can quote them but I don’t know how much people will have interest in this…. (one Sahaja Yogi suggests quoting Meerabai as she is very well known). If some lady comes who is made ready on this subject. Like Gopi Krishna (the dancer) who has many small children, or give it to some organization.. (the Sahaja Yogi says that for that one will have to prepare the song, then a list. It cant be done so fast)
So, I think, lets have a variety entertainment. Because the subject of Meerabai is of ‘separation’. We are talking of ‘union’ (with Divine). So, better than that is to have a variety entertainment. On the subject of the Adi Shakti, every religion will come in. So, for the variety entertainment there should be the subject of the Adi Shakti.
We should make 3 teams. One team to collect money, second team should see to it that the program is done properly and the third team should see to the expenses. There should be coordination. There should also see to the printing of a souvenir where the printing etc can be seen to. For the program arrangement get the musical minded Sahaja Yogis to see to it.
[Conversation goes on].