Description of Kundalini

New Delhi (India)

1976-01-23 Description Of Kundalini Part 1: Talk, 39' Download subtitles: RUView subtitles:
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1976-01-23 Description Of Kundalini Part 2: Q&A, 23' Download subtitles: RUView subtitles:
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Public program, “Description of Kundalini”, Delhi (India), January 23rd, 1976.

Honourable Justice Tatachari and the citizens of Delhi and Sahaja Yogis, we are now at a juncture of history where it has become imminent that we have to prove the existence of divine power.

We have read about this All-pervading power. In our shastras, there has been elaborate descriptions about the divine power flowing through us, through each and every particle that is being manifested in this universe. But so far very few people have been able to enter into the realm of divinity to feel that divine power.

Those were born at such a higher level that they could not communicate with the rest of the people. They only sang the songs of divinity which was carried to the people who never felt the existence of that divine power which those people felt it like reality.

It has been, as I have told you before, a search of human beings to jump into infinity but the finite rationality and understanding, the buddhi of human being could not permeate into the infinity. So, the whole thing became such a mechanical process, the religions lost their significance and people could not believe in the talks of religions or divine power.

But the time has come for people to have en masse entry into the Kingdom of God to feel His existence throbbing being within themselves.

As she told you, in 1970, I realized that human beings are not even awakened seekers. And that’s why all the mistakes have been committed because those who were born on the 10th story could not explain to people who were not even in the first story. 

When I got this human Realization and the reasons why this was happening, I started working on various people and found out their problems on the path of their awakening. In doing so within 2 years’ time I was hardly able to give Realization or I should say the people could realize, only to twelve people and it was a very hard task because the people who came to me were not so much attracted. They felt, “What is the proof that there is divine power beyond us?”

But when they realized and when they started getting vibrations from their fingertips, the vibrations which we call Chaitanya Lahari, by which they became Nirvakara, by which they started curing other people, by which they started giving awakening to other people and giving them Realization, it became a proof with them, they have reached Self-actualization. 

It is a truth, it is not falsehood, it is not any propaganda, it has to happen within you, you cannot give false certificate to anybody that it has happened, it has to happen fully into you and you have to feel it that it has happened and when you use it you know it has happened.

The other day you have seen the rising of the Kundalini with your naked eyes. Some of you have never even known the word ‘Kundalini’. But you have seen the throbbing of the Kundalini, how it rose and how it came up through the spine. When the Kundalini rises you actually can see the movement of Kundalini. 

There have been many people who have been talking of Kundalini awakening, actually none of them who says so have shown the rising of the Kundalini, the reason being the Kundalini never rose. The Kundalini only rises when there is somebody who is already enlightened and who knows the job of rising the Kundalini.

So, they have described that, by raising the Kundalini, you actually become very heated up or sometimes you start dancing, sometimes you start shouting and sometimes you get blisters all over your body. The way they have described Kundalini one would think that it is better to remain as you are than to go into such kind of ordeal where you get completely finished and fract out .

Kundalini is your Mother and She rests in the triangular bone which is placed higher than Mooladhara Chakra. The triangular bone is known as the Mooladhara. You are all, you all know Sanskrit and you know what is the meaning of the Mooladhara. She rests there and those who try to incite Her from the wrong side, Shri Ganesha who is sitting on the Mooladhara Chakra gets angry and that anger is expressed which people say that the Kundalini is angry. 

The Kundalini will never rise. She knows your problems. She loves you. She is the only Mother you have and She has been with you for ages for many lives. So, She doesn’t rise at all, She stays there. Only Shri Ganesha gets angry because He is supposed to look after the chastity of your Mother, the protocol of your Mother.

Now whether there is Shri Ganesha or not we start from that. From the scratch one has to start. People say that they have seen Shri Ganesha symbol inside the being. Whether Shri Ganesha is there or not can be verified in Sahaj Yoga. Because when you find somebody suffering like that you have to request to Shri Ganesh that, “Please don’t be angry”, the person has done it in that ignorance and He listens to you immediately you find such a person becomes cool down. His blisters disappear and he feels very much comforted.

Last time in Delhi if you remember there was one man who came rushing to me. First, he has gone to Bombay and then he has come back again to Delhi. He was a resident of Delhi and he told me that somebody has excited his Kundalini and he was running all over the place helter-skelter shouting “What heat, what heat” as if lots of wasps have bitten. I asked him, “How did you get your awakening? Who was the man who did it?” And he told me it was such a hideous method that decency prohibited to talk about that. And when I saw that I told him that, “How can you believe that God can be achieved through such hideous and useless method?” 

And he was a very educated man. Then I asked Shri Ganesh that, “Please forgive him because he doesn’t know he is an ignorant person and somebody who tried to take the money out of him or somebody who tried to show off his knowledge, has played with his Kundalini, so please excuse him.” And there are so many people who witnessed that immediately he cooled down and he was all right.

All the Deities that are on your Kundalini, whether they are there or not, because somebody has written, because somebody has said it, because they are in the shastras also, why should we accept? Because rational man does not want to accept anything! Your children are not going to accept it. We can prove the existence of Shri Ganesha, in the same way we can prove the existence of all these Deities that are on the chakras that are within human spine.

Now to say of Indian culture and Hindu culture and Muslim culture and other cultures, it is most surprising that Kundalini or we can say the Primordial Kundalini of the Virata has got all these great incarnations whether they were Muslims, whether they were Christians, whether they were Indians, seated on the chakras.

For example, if you start from the Mooladhara Chakra upwards then we have got on the second chakra, Swadishthan Chakra, Shri Brahmadeva who is the creative power, creative aspect of God, and His power is Saraswati. You have seen that in Delhi you all were caught with Swadishthan Chakra. All of you have got this problem of Swadishthan Chakra because Delhi is the place where we are planning too much and the power of planning, the power of future thinking comes from Swadishthan Chakra, and that’s how many of you are caught up with Swadishthan Chakra.

The third chakra which is known as the Nabhi Chakra, actually it is known as Manipur Chakra, rests above this triangular bone and it controls the solar plexus in the gross [physical] form in the human beings and this is the chakra which represents our dharma, our religion. Now when I talk of religion immediately the modern mind will get after me saying that, “What are you talking of this, out of these things?” When I say ‘dharma’ I mean “dareithi sadharma”) it is human beings have got certain religion as everything has got religion.

For example, you take a mango from the mango tree. If you plant it you will get the mango. Or else you can see as I told you yesterday that a gold bangle is gold because it is not tarnishable, that is the dharma of gold. The water has got purification dharma. In the same way a human being has got his own dharma which is expressed in the Bible as Ten Commandments. These are ten dharmas a human being is born with. He is born with it. 

But he has to establish himself into dharma when he has to go into dharmarthi state, is beyond that. But these ten must be established. If these are not established, we cannot play about with them! If you play about with them then this is a problem in your awakening and in your Realization.

The Nabhi Chakra is the most important one and there rests the great incarnation or we can say the aspect of God which we call as ‘Narayana’ Himself, Shri Vishnu, and His power is Shri Lakshmi. Vishnu represents the sustenance, the dharma aspect of God. 

And Vishnu is responsible for the evolution of human beings. We never find out why a amoeba has become a human being, what has made him come up to the level of human being and what is going to happen to this human being, after all why is he made a human being?

You are made for some purpose. What is going to happen to this human being afterwards, we never think of that. This evolutionary power comes to us through Shri Vishnu Himself. Shri Vishnu is not Hindu’s God. He does not belong to India; he does not belong to one particular state or one particular area. He belongs in the Primordial Being, in the great Primordial Being who we call as Islam we call it ‘Allah hu Akbar’

He is the expression of that Primordial Being who is great. God has many aspects and one of the aspects is of His greatness. And that’s why as Vishnu He wants us to be great.

Yesterday, I told you that the body of Virata contains everything that He manifests and we have to realize that we are a part and parcel of that great Virata. And that we are in the process of realizing Him because we are made in the image of God.

Then comes the most important part of our body is the stomach. It represents the Bhavasagara, Is the maya in which we are placed. We are born in this Bhavasagara when Shri Vishnu Himself incarnates again and again. You have seen as matsyavatara and purvamavtara, and He Himself leads the human beings in their evolutionary path. 

He is helped by another Deity whom we call as ‘Primordial Guru’, the Adi Guru Dattatreya. Shri Vishnu rises from Bhavasagara and gives you the leadership to rise within yourself. He builds up your awareness step by step and today you are as a human being.

In your being itself, He creates two more chakras one on the Hriday [Heart] Chakra and above that is the Vishuddhi Chakra which is placed here, which is called as the complete incarnation of Shri Krishna. At the Vishuddhi Chakra, Shri Vishnu completes His incarnation, He is the complete Virata. He is represented here in the Vishuddhi Chakra. Whether He is there or not you can find out when the Kundalini is awakened.

On the left-hand side are the Virata, in the heart resides Shiva Himself. Shiva is the symbol of God’s aspect of existence. It is Shiva who makes the whole manifestation to existence and when He does not like the show, when He does not like the play, He switches off. That’s why He is also known as a destroyer. If he likes it, if it is moving in the right direction, He continues to watch the show. But if He does not like it, He just switches off.

So, there are three aspects of God we have seen: one is of His Sthithi, existence, another of His creativity by Brahmadeva and the third one which is the evolutionary but which is based on Dharma itself. A one person can have three attitudes, can have three aspects. God has many more aspects but the aspects that are manifested are these three. 

Now these three aspects, the essence of these aspects or we can say the innocence of these three aspects is combined in the Primordial Guru or the Adi Guru Dattatreya who resides in the Bhavasagara and helps Shri Vishnu for your evolution. 

Now he has taken many incarnations, mainly ten incarnations, and these are very important and we have to understand them in their full entirety. If you accept Him as a Dattatreya you have to also accept Him as Raja Janaka. It’s easy for Hindu mind to accept Raja Janaka but it cannot accept Mohammad Sahib who was the same as Raja Janaka. It is a fact and you can prove it on your Kundalini.

A person who is suffering from cancer of the stomach, now this is the thing when I say that Sahaja Yoga can cure your cancer, you have to give up certain notions that we have in our head. A person, supposing he is a Hindu and he is suffering from the stomach cancer, I have to ask him to take the name of Mohammad Sahib. If I fail to ask him or if I do not convince him, I cannot cure his cancer. I am sorry I tell him I just cannot do it. But if he is Muslim, I have to tell him, “You have to take the name of Dattatreya.”

Human beings like fools have taken away the living flowers of one tree and now are fighting on something that is dead. He was Dattatreya, there is no doubt about it. And His daughter Fatima was nobody else but Sita Janaki Herself. And Her two sons Hassan and Hussain were nobody else but Luv and Kush. They were born again and again. They were born as Mahavira and Buddha and then they were born as Hassan and Hussain. It is only possible through Sahaja Yoga to realize that this is the truth, this is the fact. He was born as Nanaka and Nanaki was nobody else but Janaki. In Nanaka’s life He has expressed it.

Of course, I don’t know how many people have read about Nanaka. Nanaka one day was sleeping and his feet were towards Kaaba and people were getting vibrations from that side so they said, “What are you doing? Your feet are towards Kaaba!” So, he said, “Alright I will turn my feet on the other side” and they started getting vibrations from the other side. They said, “What? Kaaba has moved or what?” 

He has in a way, showed, but how dare they said many things? When they said very few things, they have killed these people and tortured them. If you read Mohammad Sahib’s life you will feel what foolish people we have been, the way we have tortured. For fanaticism, the way He was killed actually he was poisoned. He had no place where to hide his head the way people were after Him because He was telling the truth and fanaticism is one thing He fought. 

So, Guru Tatva [principe] is killed as soon as you become a fanatic person. Your Guru Tatva is immediately finished as soon as you take to fanaticism of any kind.

You come up now to the Heart Chakra. Heart Chakra is divided into three parts. In the centre of the Heart Chakra resides Jagadamba Herself. But the left side, as I have told you, resides Shiva and His power is Parvati. When Parvati Herself separates Her identity with Her lord and enters in the centre to save Her children from the domination of the evil spirits, then She resides in the centre and She is the Jagadamba. 

This is called as ‘sacred heart’ in the Bible. She resides as Jagadamba. She has taken many incarnations to save.

Today there was Lalita Panchami, they sang the song of Lalita, the way She took Her incarnation to fight the evil forces to save the bhaktas from the domination of satanic and depraving personalities. She is there within you also. If not awakened She can be awakened. She is all the time there to save you from those satanic forces.

Today so many rakshasas have taken birth in this Kali Yuga. They are here as some of them call themselves “Gods” and “God’s men”. But from their behaviour and from their character, you can make out that they are not human beings, they are less than human beings. All such horrid incarnations have come in a camouflage, in the maya, because this is Kali Yuga. Ravana is not going to come out as Ravana, he is not going to say, “I am Ravana” but from his ideologies and from his methods, you can make out that he is “the Ravana”.

There are challenging religion today. There are people who are preaching that sex should be used for sublimation into God. How can that be? Sex has nothing to do with your awakening. Because sex point as I told you, is much lower than the Mooladhara where your Mother resides. 

It’s such an absurd idea which has already taken over in the West. I don’t know how people have lost all their brains not to understand! And such ideologies are today spreading in this country.

And I want Justice Tatachari to put little pressure to the people who have made laws to see that these horrid things do not come up, that they are not accepted by people. Because when you subject yourself to such horrible satanic forces, they come to you as entities, they possess you, you get possessed. 

Then you start giving everything that you have. Whatever money you have, you give to them. Whatever attention you have, you give it to them. Ultimately you find out that they have now landed in the courts and now are enjoying some sentences for life.

It is better that you should be all warned, that you must understand that a religious person, a person who is really awakened, cannot take even a single pai from you. When you are so self-respecting, how can a person, the one who has got the blessing of God, will accept anything from you? This is the way they satisfy your ego, that you feel that you have been able to purchase a religious personality. You cannot purchase God in the market. You must understand that. And when a person tries to satisfy your ego, by doing all these things, you must know that it is…, it is an act which is adharmic.

Man must understand that God is above everything. It is his Grace that can take you there, you cannot do anything about Him. It is He who should pour his Grace onto you. What can the seed do when it wants to germinate? Nothing. But to be there and the gardener pours his Grace, his love on that seed and it sprouts by itself. That is what ‘sahaja’ is. That means that it is born with you, like the seed you have to sprout. But you have to be very careful with those horrible destructive forces that have come in so many ways.

I can tell you there are 16 rakshasas whom know have bin taken birth. Mahishasura is there, Narakasura is there, Ruktasura is there. There are 6 rakshasis who have taken birth. And you have no idea to what they are doing. They will do all kinds of tricks to convince you that they are godly people. But must only ask for the Supreme, for the last which is being described by so many sages like Markandeya, like Shankaracharya. We are so lucky that we have had such great people who have elaborately said, who have clearly said that, “This is what is the supreme, ask for the reality and do not ask for something cheapish.” You cannot cheapen God. You do not try to mold Him in your own small cups.

Above that chakra as I told you on the right-hand side of the Heart Chakra is placed the Deity of Shri Rama and Sita. Now they are placed on the side because He was made to forget His power as Vishnu. He became a human being in every way. He had to be a human being, every way. And that’s why He behaved in such a manner that He showed the maryada purushottama. He is on the right side. 

He is the ideal king about which the philosophers have told you. He is the person who does all the raja karan. He is the person who gives us the way the evolutionary stage, to which a person who is in this world and who is in position higher level of administration, should follow too. And He is maryada purushottama, Rama who is on the right-hand side. And you know His power is Sita. She is Adi Shakti who is born again and again.

On the Vishuddhi Chakra rest the great Deity of Shri Krishna. He represents the Virata, the Akbar, Allah hu Akbar. He is represented here and this is the finger for Shri Krishna. Shri Krishna has manifested and has shown to Arjuna His Virata Swarupa, but Arjuna got frightened. Imagine that time it was not possible for Arjuna to see all that, he got frightened.

Now in the Kali Yuga the time has come for you to see the Virata. You can if you get your realization through Sahaja Yoga. If you raise your awareness to that extent where you can see Virata, you can see that.

About Shri Krishna I need not say much, you all know about Him but the essence of His life, the essence of His teachings was one simple thing that it is all a play going on. When you are complete, when you are sampurna, then only you feel you are just a sakshi. When you are sakshi you are watching the whole thing. Here at this point you meet oneness with complete vairAgnya within and love outside. The vairAgnya within flows that love outside.

Actually, it’s such a wonderful thing it cannot be explained. For example, today’s puja filled me up with vibrations. So many vibrations started flowing through my chakras that I didn’t know what to do, then they started flowing out. That’s why yesterday I said that Sahaja Yoga teaches you how you become the capitalist of vibrations, and when it flows out you know it is the communist because you cannot help it. Once they are inside you want to give away, you have to feed others with what you have got because you cannot carry on with that capital that you have achieved. You see it is so spontaneous and automatic that the release is necessary.

For example, if I have such a problem, I must meet my Sahaja Yogis. If I don’t find them, I go to the see and stand there and give my vibrations to the see or to the tree or to the akasha because I must give away, because they are working out and they have to cross this finite being in which the infinite is pushing through. It is such an interesting thing that when we say, “You press the feet of your parents you get the blessings”, it is absolute truth because when you press the feet of your parents, the chakras that move the vibrations, they come into us and they sooth us while they feel sooth and we also feel sooth.

Above this chakra is the Agnya Chakra, which is a very, very important chakra, which is the door, which is the door of the Sahasrara. At the Agnya Chakra resides Mahavishnu. Those who have read about Mahavishnu in the Markandeya Purana or in the Devi Bhagwat, you will know what I am talking about but we do not know when He incarnated and who He was. He was nobody else but Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was the only son of Mary who was Radha. She was Mahalakshmi. It was Mahalakshmi who incarnated as Mary and Jesus Christ was nobody else but Mahavishnu.

If you want to know about Mahavishnu you must read Devi Bhagwat. There it’s described in all elaboration. But whether He is there or not, whether it’s a fact or not, can be seen because, somebody’s Agnya Chakra is caught up, we have to take the name of Jesus Christ. He is Omkar Swarup so you can even take the name of Omkara. But you have to take the name of Jesus Christ. If you do not take His name, if you do not accept Him, I cannot open your Agnya Chakra. I am sorry but it is so. Because for Hindus it’s very difficult to accept and for Christians it is very difficult to accept the other side of it. You see, whether you accept it or not that’s a fact. Because of your secluded temperaments, because of your limited energies, because of your I should say a very narrow vision of God and religion, you cannot accept the truth which is so wide and so great. But it’s a fact and it’s to be seen.

In the Agnya Chakra, He resides. He controls your ego and superego both. He removes the entities that are in you and He kills your darpa, your ego. He looks after your ego also. If you bend before somebody who is not a realized soul, who is just doing anadhikar chestha, unauthorized, He is asking. You are serviliant  or you are subjection; He gets angry and that’s how the Agnya Chakra closes down. 

Agnya chakra is in the center of the optic thalamus of the human beings and is one of the most important things and once it opens out it’s much easier for you to get your realization.

Among you there are at least 50% people who are already realized, who know how to handle the Kundalini, who have mastered the Kundalini. So, when I am telling you is just a repetition but there are many new comers that’s why I have to tell them about it.

The last is the most important, is the limbic area where resides the Sahasrara. There are 982 nerves in our brain and there are 8 other nerves so we can say that there are 1000 nerves. There is no use quarreling with these doctors because they will be all the time fighting with you and telling you, “No, no, it is not so. No, it is not so.” But they will never come and see. Because we have cured cancer, we have cured so many people, they will never come and see it.

We have so many doctors who have been realized now and who accept that Sahaja Yoga is the only way the cancer can be cured. But still they are not going to accept it because the ego is too much. How are they going to accept it because that’s what they are depending on? And now they have to accept, they have to jump to something. Are they going to accept Christ? Are they going to accept Ganesha? Oh God, that’s too much for scientists to accept Shri Ganesha because Christ is the human incarnation of Shri Ganesha. He is the embodiment of eternal childhood.

In the Sahasrara we are the integration of all these chakras which we call as the seven peethas. They are placed there and because of this integration in the Sahasrara one has to workout on the Sahasrara. Now the Sahasrara opening happened when, 1970, when I saw how one can handle all these 7 chakras in the Sahasrara. Here resides Shri Bhagvati who coordinates, cooperates with those seven chakras in such a manner that all the permutations and combinations of these 7 chakras can be worked out in the Sahasrara. Once She works it on that, She can give you the realization too and that’s how we have got 7 chakras.

On top of this there are 3 more abstract forms in which one has to rise. Above this is the trikona which is the brain, above that lies the ardha matra, as they call it, then the bindu, and then the, they call it the varthuna.

But the thing is all these things I am talking about should not mean anything to you unless and until you have achieved something because this all you can read in the books. I am not here to give you some books and you know that so far I have not written books and I don’t know if I am really going to complete the so called book I am writing. Because once you write the book, people start getting involved into it so much that they do not ask for the reality. So, you first see the reality yourself.

Now all over the world, there are Sahaja Yogis who have seen the Kundalini rising, who has mastered the Kundalini, who know what Is happening because after realization you start feeling it on your fingers. You feel theChaitanya Lahari coming into you but not only that, it’s not only that the Chaitanya Lahari starts coming but it is the communication is established with the all-pervading power, with God, and you start feeling on the fingers what is the problem of the other person. For example, if you place your hand towards a person and you feel burning here you know it’s a Agnya Chakra.

Now for a person who is novice, who is recently come for the first time, who places his hand, he will say this is the finger. Even a child can say that. My granddaughter who is a born realized soul she can just say like this, you know from the distance she tells me nani yeh hai. Now she knows the names also! So, the communication is given to you silently: it burns you, it makes you uneasy, sometimes you feel the throbbing, sometimes you feel something is flowing in. That’s how you know. It is a subjective knowledge for this you do not need to go to school. Everybody knows if it is burning, they saw it is the finger that is burning.

But I am here to decode all that, to tell you and then you verify it, you tally it and find out if it is so or not. Not only that you feel the other person but with that you can raise the Kundalini of another person. With the raising of the Kundalini you can remove the problems that are physical, emotional and mental. By giving them Realization, you can remove their spiritual problems and that’s how they enter also into the Kingdom of God where there is communication.

[Speeker] If any one of you wants to put any question and get some ideas clarified, Mataji is prepared to reply.

Seeker: [Inaudible].

Shri Mataji: Your attention has to be free. At the time of your realization, when the Kundalini is awakened, all your attention is extracted within and the Kundalini while rising takes it on his head, or on her head, and brings the attention outside the Sahasrara. So, at that time, best thing is to let loose yourself.

Just sit down, watch it, what is happening, instead of putting any effort. It is an effortless, that helps you the best. So, no mantra is to be chanted. After realization you must know what mantra is to be chanted where. There is a big science about it. So, the complete tantra, what you call ‘Kundalini’ is there but you must know how to handle it, what mantra is to be said, what is to be said and which chakra lacks a thing and it is that you have to master it.

And there are many here in Delhi also who have mastered it. So, it is not difficult. Anybody can master it. It is not difficult. Even a little girl like Pradnya has mastered the Kundalini. She can do it so why not you people can do it. So, you have to just find out what are the chakras which are defective and you can treat it also.

Just now those who are not Realized, you’ll get your realization no doubt so you would go and meet those people at D288, Pandara Road, and there you go and they will guide you as to what is to done in future. And go deep into it and make yourself established and be a master of Kundalini. All that is guhya guhya taram, I have told them. And you will get all the knowledge about it.

Seeker: [Inaudible]. 

Shri Mataji: That’s a very good question. He asks why universal consciousness, it is all deliberate, why it is kept sleeping in the human being?

Now in the growth of evolution, from a small amoeba, you come to a human stage. At the human stage, articulation takes place. Means like a shell of the egg is developed. For the egg to develop, the shell is developed. You are made limited. Through the growth of your ego and superego within yourself, your Brahmarandhra is closed down, your “talu” is closed down, and you are left to yourself.

I’ll tell you an analogy by which you will understand. For e.g., if I have to use this mic, first of all it is developed somewhere, away from the mains, then it is brought and put to the mains. In the same way human being is cut from the mains. He is given “I-ness” from him to develop his instrument, his awareness; in such a manner that when he receives the mains, he can communicate it, he could understand it, and for that development, articulation was done. Just like an egg is made in a shell for protection and for its growth and then when the chick is ready in that shell, it is broken by the mother; here just like I break your Brahmarandhra, is the same, it’s that.

Seeker: What is the idea of Atmadhyan

Shri Mataji: Now the idea of Atmadhyan, if it is read in the books, it is rather difficult to make you understand. But what happens with the rise of Kundalini? First of all, you enter into that infinite thing, the people, some people rise like steep, we can say a very strong jet like speed they get. But some of them rise very slowly and then we can see the stages into which they rise. The first thing that happens is that you become thoughtless. But you are aware. First stage that happens is thoughtless awareness. Thoughtless awareness means that you start watching the thoughts. That means you are separated from yourself. Like you were in water and now you jumped on to the boat and you see the water now so that you are separated.

This is what happens, those who have gradual ascent. You become thoughtlessly aware, which we call in the Hatha Yoga as asampragnyat samadhi. Of course, according to them it’s a very higher stage. But you become thoughtlessly aware and the vibrations start flowing from your hand by which you know that something is flowing. You start getting cool breeze from me and you start getting cool breeze from other Sahaja Yogis and when you give it to others you find it is flowing. This we can say is the first thing that happens. That means you become collectively conscious of another personality. This is the first thing that happens.

The second stage into which, do you jump is Nirvikalpa, means in that stage you become doubtless. Then you don’t ask me questions. There are some people who are like that here.

So, they have no questions, they have felt it, they have known it.

I say it in a different way that supposing I give you a thousand rupees. Now if you do not spend it how will you know what is the value of that? You will say, “What you have given, thousand? What is there you have given? Just give us vibrations.” But once you start using it, then you will see tremendous powers you have got. And the powers of this so called, I mean what you call just ordinary vibrations, some people think like that, it is so easily available, it happens to you so sahaja, that you do not understand the value of it. But once you start using them and then you see the tremendous thing that you have got it. It gives the bliss and the joy that flows into you. You come into the stage of doubtless awareness.

The third one I would say, when the complete Self-realization is established.

Now, in the thoughtless awareness, as you can say that now, supposing now as you have got Justice sitting here, so then he is a Justice, he has certain powers. In the same way when you rise to the doubtless, thoughtless awareness you have certain powers by which you can give awakening to people. Just move hand and the Kundalini of the people will move. It surprises, but it does. You can move the hand and you can feel the Kundalini, you can feel the Kundalini of other persons, you can feel the chakras of another person. It happens; only with thoughtless awareness.

But with doubtless awareness you start giving them realization. Absolutely, you can just like that. And with higher Self-realization what happens? That you just become a sakshi [witness]. No problem. You never catch anything. You see, normally what happens when a person come to you, you place your hand for that person and you feel it, “Oh! disgusting, this fellow is burning.” You don’t like it because you see the chakras of that person are burning your fingers. And you know it’s burning. Then sometimes you catch also, you get involved into it. But later on, when you are completely self-realized you become a Nirlepa. You do not catch any such things and you rise into the realm where you are into complete vairag, you are just flowing, you are into sakshi state.

But after these three stages, is the stage of God’s realization in which you start controlling the nature completely.

Some people, of course, through Hatha Yoga, they try to control certain nature, but that is just upside down. We start it from top and go down. First of all, let us go to the divine stage and then come down. Then establish into the…, we control the nature. See if you can control the say rain, you can control the sun. All this can be done. But that is you see you lose interest in those thing. But automatically you can do it.

For example, when I was going to see one maharaj like that who is a very evolved soul and he has got it through you see thousands of years of tapasya. Say he was sitting down there and he was pouring rain, the rain was pouring down and he didn’t want me to get drenched and so he was trying to control rain. I know he can control rain. But the rain was pouring. And he didn’t know what to do and was so disgusted with himself. When I went up, he said, “Did you want to kill my ego that you didn’t allow the rain to stop?” I said, “No, it was not so. You see, I am a mother.” So, I told him very sweetly that, “I know that you have bought a saree for me and if I was not drenched, you will not give me the saree. So, I just wanted the rain to.”

And that’s how you see, the little ego that was there that, “I am controlling the rain” dropped off, so it is the thing that happens automatically. You do not want to do it but it just happens. You just don’t want to bother about these things but it happens. Wherever you are it just happens. That is that state where you start rising into God’s realization. When you are in God’s realization, whether you are sitting here or anywhere you can see things, you can influence people, you can help them. You can do lot of things sitting down anywhere. You may sit in Himalayas. There are people like that who are sitting in the Himalayas and are helping you. So, they can do it and they are one.

For example, this gentleman about whom I am telling you, who is a very great saint, he saw at my time, at the time of my birth, everything that happened. He knows about my past lives for thousands of years. He recognizes me much better.

There is another one who came to see Me from Amarnath who is three hundred years old. He is also of the same type and he also said all those things. But you see, their style is different and your style is different. You are people are like Ganesha, they are not. They still catch. You don’t know. That’s why that three-hundred-year old man, had some catches on his body. I said, “What have you done Nagnath Baba? How you got it?” He said, “I got it from one man, horrible fellow he touched me.” I said, “You got it, alright. I will take it out for you.” Then he said, “What about you?” I said, “Not me. I do not get it, I am a mother. A mother does not get it. Mother never catches because of children.”

In the same way you people also don’t catch. There are some people here who have cured cancer. They have never caught anything from anybody. So, you see, you have much more power because you are people who are simple, who are like Shri Ganesha. Because Shri Ganesha has much more power than any one of the Deities there are. Because He is so simple, He’s so dedicated to the Mother.

Seeker: [Inaudible]. 

Shri Mataji: We are living in this world because we have to become the instrument in the hands of God. He wants to use us. You see we have to be a good instrument into his hand. For example, an artist has a brush. Why is the brush there? For the artist to use the brush. Now, I will tell you a very sweet story about it.

Once Radhaji was very jealous of the murli, that Shri Krishna was carrying on his lips. So, she asked “What is your speciality…” She asked the murli, “What is your specialty that you are all the time near the lips of my lord?” So, she said that, “My specialty is that I am no special. I have become a hollow person. The melody is going through me. He is using me just as an instrument and I laugh at the people when they say that, ‘You have been slave.’ I say, ‘I am just watching like a sakshi, like a witness. And if I stand anywhere in between then his melody will be spoilt’.”

This is the purpose and if you don’t achieve this purpose then all this recklessness comes in, these problems comes in, which we can say in a gross way, then your parasympathetic is taxed. When your parasympathetic is taxed, then you start thinking, “What are we to do? Where are we to jump now?” This whole petrol is being exhausted in this body. But, once you open out to the mains, it starts pouring into you. And you are absolutely relaxed.

Seeker: [Inaudible]. 

Shri Mataji: It just takes a second if you are ready. For every ordinary person it really takes a second. Then it rises, it takes a second to rise. But what happens, that Kundalini is your Mother. So now, supposing your mother is coming to see you and you are sick. So, first of all, what she will do is to see that your sickness is removed. Then she sees that you are mentally upset. So, she looks after your mental problems. Then she sees that you are wrongly placed spiritually. So, she corrects you. And ultimately, she blesses you. So, if somebody is in temperance, empathy, who has got a good health, of normal health, he is living a normal married life, he is the best suited. And there are some who have got it like just that. But some people are rather sick, they have some trouble because they have gone through various ordeals of life. They have been troubled, even tortured, they have got some mental problem. The Mother has to soothe them.

So if there is, you see, you cannot say that, when this seed is going to sprout, it will sprout. Can you say that, at this day, the flowers will appear? Can you say that, at this day, all fruits will be coming? No, you cannot! There is no time for living things. It works itself. It is a living process so it works itself. It works for the organism, that is yourself, and then it clicks itself. That is what is sahaja.

Seeker: [Inaudible, asking for Realization]. 

Shri Mataji: Realization? Yeah! Why not, why not? I am here only for that. (Hindi.)

Seeker: [Inaudible]. 

Shri Mataji: Right, for anybody who is not realized that should be the question, that you see, around such a lot of miseries.

Now he has asked two questions. You see, he has confused two questions. The first one of misery, the second one about over population. So first, I will answer the first question of misery. Now you say that there are miseries. I accept it that there are miseries and miseries are there because of human beings themselves. Because they haven’t got the divine within themselves. If they have divine, they will not dominate, they will not bear domination, they will be different people. But we can say one thing, how will reduce the miseries of people when you get Realized?

See, I have told you that there are seven chakras in the human beings. When they are awakened what happens? Let us see. First of all, your physical problems are solved, your health improves, you lead a very healthy life. You will be amazed and in Sahaja Yoga, nobody dies before he is 70 years of age. He leads a very, very healthy life to begin with. First misery of physical life is over. Not only that he lives a physically good life, but he makes others physically alright. He makes them physically fit without taking a single pai [paisa/rupees] from them. The vibrations that flow from him, he cures them and the other person gets all right. Now as I have told you that there are people here who have treated so many people, have cured so many people without taking a single pai, because this love is flowing and that’s yourselves! So, the physical problem is solved. 

Then the second problem is your emotional problem. The person suffers emotionally. They become emotionally disturbed, sometimes there are possessions. They come into it from their subconscious mind and there are problems from the emotional side. Now, after Realization, people become sakshi in the sense that emotionally they do not get involved into the things, that they do not feel disturbed about it but they see the things.

I will give you a very concrete example. I had a grandchild, first grandchild born in my family. This child was born with a heart which was all time, permanently, there was a clotage which cannot be cured. Because it’s a basic problem and I knew about it the day she was born. But I was silent and on the 5th day I said to the doctor that, “You must take her under the x-ray and see what is the thing.” Doctor was surprised. He said, “Why do you think so? Such a little child should not be exposed to x-ray.” I said, “You take her.” I took her secretly and showed her to the doctor. They found that, the enlargement of the heart.

Now, when I came home, I didn’t tell my daughter, I didn’t tell my husband who was to come from Delhi. When he came back, with very great introduction I told him. Immediately he fainted. He is a very healthy man and, I mean that way emotionally he is supposed to be a very sensitive person, very balanced, but he fainted. We told this to the father of the child, he fainted. My daughter fainted. They couldn’t bear it.

I took the child to the hospital. I admitted her in the hospital because the doctor said they had to do other tests. Then we had to take the child to America and I knew that the child was going to die. But I said “alright”. If they think, the child has to be taken, I took. None of them could take. They couldn’t take the child. I took there.

The so-called miserable people actually are overdoing things. By which they are spoiling every body’s life and making themselves miserable also. The ways we talk of our misery actually are so exaggerating. I do not know if they are really that miserable the way they talk about. And they cannot do anything about it because unless and until you are separated from the problem, how are you going to solve it?

You see, you have to be separated. Unless and until you are a doctor, you are not going to operate. Supposing you are the patient, how are you going to operate yourself? So, the doctor in you must be separated. This is what the Sahaja Yoga does. Because you are the patient and you are the doctor that’s why the whole thing is more exaggerated. If you find any doctor being sick, he’ll be the worst patient. I have seen that in practice it is so. That’s why those who are miserable are much more miserable than they are really because they themselves do not know how to cure it. So, the emotional problem is solved, like this.

Now, then there is another problem which we face all the time is of our dharma, of our dignity. How to be dignified, how to be ourselves? The spiritual problem, and that is solved. No doubt. Because then you find the divine flowing through you. You really become a dynamic personality apart from that, for this worldly things I have to tell you another thing which happened to people who are Sahaja Yogis. That is, your Laxmi is awaken. Now you know what is Laxmi. Such a person cannot become a beggar. Cannot! A Sahaja Yogi cannot become a beggar because his Laxmi is awakened. He is looked after.

See, there is God Almighty who’s looking after you! This is the sin against God that all the time you are so unsecured. The One who has created you, the One who is looking after you is going to look after you everywhere. But you want to run after other things. You want to do smuggling, you want to do all kind of things, you want to cut each other’s throat and then you want to see that you are happy, you cannot l. You have to depend on Him and on His grace. And the person who is realized, he is like a badshah, he is the king. He is always the king. He doesn’t bother.

I can tell you about myself. I never feel I have dearth of money or dearth of anything. Never! You see if you ask me, I can sleep on the ground. Perhaps I was born in very rich family and my husband is quiet rich, but if you ask me, I can live anywhere. I can do without food for days together. It doesn’t matter of all the time people talk about eating, eating. How much do you eat? There is no need to eat such a lot. That’s why some people are poor. Some people eat such a lot that there are some people who are poor.

But automatically your attention fromfood and all drops out. You just get it. If you get it well and good, you don’t get it well and good. Sorry this morning I had no breakfast and all that. I didn’t know that I had no. And I had not even my lunch, I would not… Because this body is filled with energy you don’t need. Actually, this is the first time the energy is filling you all. Then you give vibrations.

In Rahuri, [Maharashtra state], there is one university there they have experimented. In the University,first time they have experimented in agriculture university, ith these vibrations. They have found that the growth of all this wheat was 10 ten times more. They found that the fruits that came out of it were beautiful and they were so tasty and so lusty. They found that when the cow was given vibrated water, Indian cow started giving milk like an Australian cow. But I cannot write a guarantee check for you. That is one thing. So, all the miseries so called will drop out.

Now the overpopulation problem. That’s very interesting. I’ll tell you what it is. Why there is such an overpopulation. You see the congenial atmosphere for the rakshasas and for the bhoots, giving chance for bhoots to come as human beings. Once this congenial atmosphere for them will disappear, only the saintly will come and they are not so many. And they will not need also so many things. A saintly person does not need much. With very little he is so satisfied, he doesn’t want. You see, he is a badshah. It’s only the mental attitude that makes us biharis  . Otherwise, we are not. We are very rich people.

What else?

Seeker: [Inaudible]. 

Shri Mataji: Now I would say that really some who are really hungry will ask for the ultimate but those who are not will be asking me questions. As I say I have cooked the food for you and those who are hungry will say, “Mother give us. Now it’s too much. Now these people are just wasting our time. We are very hungry.” And that’s the stuff. And that’s the thing you should ask for. That’s the real thing you should ask for and you should get it.