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Talk To New Yogis – Problems From Fake Gurus. New Delhi, 19 February 1977.
[Shri Mataji speaks in Hindi for 9’35” at the end of which She asks for a letter to be read. A yogi reads the following:]
A few years ago, Swami Muktananda initiated me in his yoga. He calls it Siddha Yoga. It is supposed to be a form of Kundalini Yoga. Since then, I have been suffering from a heavy pressure in the head and spine, inability to think clearly or concentrate, some sort of movement in the backbone which certainly isn’t pleasant, nervousness, difficulty in facing people and situations, bad memory, obsession with the past and some sort of involuntary fixation with sex. Perhaps the Kundalini has been activated. Whatever it is, there is nothing spiritual about it. There is no sign of peace or silence or impersonal love. I am sure I have not benefitted spiritually through my contact with him. For all I know I was a better person spiritually before I met him. Would You please help me at least to get normal.
Ibrahim Khan – A seeker.
Shri Mataji: Absolutely correct. And I must congratulate him for this bold action that he has taken; is a very bold action. Of course we have some others here who will share his thoughts, very much who have suffered. And those-
Yogi: He’s here.
Shri Mataji: He’s here. And there are many who have suffered on account, they have taken him out and they are much better now. And they are very good and absolutely what you have said is correct. It has to be a spiritual experience of bliss and joy, first thing. It has to be, secondly, a thing that enriches you, makes you much wiser, makes you sharper and alert. It has to be a energy-giving thing. Apart from that you are made a much better person; there’s a regular transformation in your being. Now there are, you will be surprised like this, at least sixteen big ones, sixteen of them, they are doing this kind of job. And people are sending thousands of rupees to these people, thousands! He came from Lond- some place, America or somewhere, he has brought crores of foreign exchange. Crores of foreign exchange, how did he manage? You have been a religious man and that’s why you have been opposing it. And by God’s grace you are going to get the reality, no doubt.
The person who is initiated and is not a religious man will get into the mood. He’ll start misbehaving, he’ll take to ganja [marijuana â€” ed], he’ll take to all kinds of drugs, he will take to bad sexual habits, he’ll be perverted man, he will start becoming a smuggler and a thief and he’ll do all the things. But a man who is a really, a religious man by heart will resist it and because of resistance he will get all these symptoms. But I’m happy you have resisted him and I promise that I will give you realization here and here. And I’m very happy that you have done it. But so many like this. I’ve already told you that even with gross calculation three crores [30 million – ED] already on a way to doom. Of course some are going to be saved not out of those three crores are absolutely towards their doom. Then they come and argue with Me. The thing is, they have done so much wrong to themselves by wrong things and then they come and argue with me; this is something I can’t understand. You cannot argue it out. If I can cure you I will give My life, every… every part of My being, I would say, every drop of My blood to save humankind. I will go out of the way for saving them, but you must understand that this is not spirituality. Spirituality is promised in all the scriptures whether it is Koran, it is Geeta, anywhere, that you are born again. You become a transformed personality and a higher personality.
[Speaks in Hindi for 11’49” then continues in English:]
If there is a lady and her, you see her, the first wife has died. Supposing take a question, and she has had no children or something like she died as an atrupta atma and the husband marries another woman. And the first lady died in a mess or in a atrupta way and she never had a child. So she, her entity might enter into this woman’s entity and she may come into that woman. You see this is a, this is a emotional side, so emotionally if she is disturbed about it, if she thinks about it that she had no child, “I may not have a child,” if she has a fear like that or something, it will act on the uterus and she will also not have children. That’s the emotional side of it. And the right hand side if you have a uterus trouble and uterus problem or anything like that, then also you cannot have. But when these two meet together, a galloping sort of a movement starts of both the sympathetic nervous system and then you can say that it is a cancer has been set in. But cancer is set into us every moment and is destroyed every moment by parasympathetic. Because if the activity of the sympathetic nervous system is the cause of cancer means everybody has it. You see, is possible it is and the more – if you do it over-activity, more than what is needed – it sets in.
A man who is a great planner say, he’s a very great planner and he’s a very great this thing, and he gets, sort of all his time devoted to work and work and work, he develops a deficiency in the spleen because this also supplies to the spleen. And that’s how spleen and then your liver and kidney all put together give you the disease known as diabetes. Diabetes is only caused among people who think too much. Diabetes will not happen among the people who are poor because they don’t sit down and think and bother about things. So diabetes is caused among such people. Mostly it is caused among men, less among women. Doctors do not know the cause of diabetes. Now if I tell them Swadhisthana Chakra and Brahmadeva’s activities, they will say, “Mataji, this is beyond us.”
But if tell them imbalance, if there is imbalance in life, if there is imbalance in life, then it is caused. It is due to the imbalance in life because such a man, you see when he starts planning too much, thinking too much, he has no time for emotional activities. Like, you see he has no time for his children, he has no time for his wife, he has no time for anybody to, you see express themself. If he can have the balance between the two, if he’s a very loving man then the balance is maintained. But mostly what happens, a man who takes to hard work, he has no time for his children. Then if he gets a little time for his children, children think, “Oh it’s a great thing.” And such a, such a personality has diabetes. And the diabetes has such a vicious circle that it goes on increasing and increasing and increasing. Then it increases up to the – you see it can go up to the eyes you may start getting very weak eyes with diabetes. And I mean anything can happen because you start, lets say the sugar in the… sugar in the blood is not consumed, so for such a person who suffers from diabetes there’s a very simple method, if he’s a realized soul. You see, if he’s a realized soul – that’s one “if” is there. If he’s not, then nothing can work out; all these things are for realized people.
You have to put your – now as you say that your right side is weak, your right is being used too much, your left side is weak. So what you have to do is to put the left hand towards the photograph raise your left hand and put it to the right hand, like this. Now what happens when the left side is weak, you see there is… on the top of the head there are two balloon-like structures, one of them goes on to the front and another goes at the back. But one comes from the right, another comes from the left. Now the one which comes on the left because it crosses over, so the left one is responsible for the right hand, and the right one is responsible for the left hand. So by doing like this what you do is to press your ego backward and that’s how you get a complete balance there and the Kundalini rises in between. Because one side is too much pressed and the another side is suppressed. Raise your left hand side like this, all right, raising it like this. Left hand side, left hand, left hand yes teek hai. Left with the right hand you will have to raise. [Hindi for 12″.]
Now what are you pushing back here? By pushing this thing on this side you are pushing it this way. Now left side you are raising the super ego and right side you are pushing the ego, because such a man develops ego also, because he works through his ego. We plan through our ego. Ego doesn’t mean egoistical. Ego everyone has, if you do not have ego you are a realized soul. But you have, ego and superego both are there, they are there, they exist. So what happens, too much of ego develops because of planning because we do all this planning and everything through ego. So the ego is pushed back and you get the balance. And this what the doctors do not think of: balancing a person, because we are not only physical being, we are emotional being, we are also a intellectual being, we are also a spiritual being. So there should be a balance between all these beings and they should be all integrated. But doctors do not think like that, so the imbalance works like that and that’s how you get into problem.
[Hindi speaker asks a question indistinctly.]
Shri Mataji: You see ego or superego both in imbalance is not a good state for Kundalini rising. If the ego is too much developed, for example, it is pressing your superego. Now the superego is suppressed, for example all the developing countries. All the developed countries have a big ego. So too much ego they press the superego. Because of pressing of the superego, what happened that their ego developed too much; the superego gave them a bump, because if you press too much it has a reaction. So in their society, people just became sort of what you call the hippies, they gave up. They said, “This planning when… finish it off. We are going to lead another kind of life.” So they took to superego and superego is all these drugs and these serious things to get towards the suppression of your self. You see, first these people were violent outside but then they became violent to themselves. So both things are wrong whether you are violent to yourself or violent to others.
[Man indistinctly]: Sorry, Mother, isn’t it about one’s body, it’s only about one’s mind.
Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, you see, the ego and superego are both things, are two forces within us which is balanced, is balanced, then only the Kundalini can rise otherwise this [?] there should be a gap between the two, actually it creates a gap. But if one side is overdeveloped any one of them, a person who is possessed has a superego mostly, but a person can be also possessed by a egoistical bhoot. For example this Transcendental people all of them have their ego side developed too much. You cannot push them back. Because there is, you see, anything can bloat. Somebody, egoistical man can enter into you, you see and you can have a superego on you. Sort of you can start thinking that you are a very great dynamic man, you think no end of yourself. And actually it is somebody else who is putting ideas into your head and you are a bloated person.
[15″ of Hindi.]
You spoil your head because you get into that over-ego, double ego if somebody else is acting in you. Sometimes you yourself can develop your ego too much, but sometimes somebody else comes into you and tells you. And he talks as if you wont believe, he talks like a, like a Hitler. You think that “What is this come up?”
Man: That means that he can possess your ego?
Shri Mataji: He possesses your ego, enters into your ego and supplies information through your ego. It can – Mostly it enters through your superego, mostly because most of them are depraved people. So these depraved people also can enter into your left hand side and they can also give you ideas and you can become – you see they do not really give you ideas, but they make your life miserable. Such people when they enter into you, you become giddy. You feel terrible, you will get a headache, or sometimes if you start acting according to them, then you can become a very depraved man also.
Actually the ego people cannot see. You see a man can never see his ego, it’s rather difficult and they think, “Oh, I’m correct after all I’m such-and-such so I, whatever I’m doing is correct.” You see? It’s very difficult to see your ego. Because human beings can see their superego very easily as it harms them, physically also. If you have got a possession on you, you are harmed but if there is a ego you are not harmed. By ego you harm others so you are not harmed. But by superego you are harmed, so you can see that. But ego it harms others and you go on harming others; you don’t know what you are doing and you think, “Oh I’m very correct, whatever I’m doing is correct.”
So these are the two types of balloons which covers your head. In between them is the space which we call the vilamba. That space is created through the Kundalini rising. But actually when the Kundalini rises, first what She does, She comes up to the Agnya, below the Agnya, on this on this plate which we call as moordha [Sanskrit for “head” – ED] plate, the lower plate of the brain, it touches it, you see. And then it comes down again on these two channels of ida and pingala which cools it down. And by cooling it down it fills it up and the cooling brings down both the ego and superego a little bit and a space is created. And then when the Kundalini really rises upward, then it passes through that space. Actually you can see here with some people who get realization, a big depression. Sometimes people have depression here. If they have a badha in their Nabhi then they get a depression here, or sometimes they get a depression here. A regular depression you can get here, if you feel it, even those who are realized can feel it, is a soft thing if you can press it, you know it can work out, you must feel it. You put your right hand towards Me you can feel it. There’s a little depression you can press it down, you feel better. You feel better with that. Pressing a little bit makes you better, feeling much better.
[Shri Mataji gives some directions in Hindi. “Left hand up here, right…” 12.5″]
Now the situation in all the developing countries is that their ego is overdeveloped now. Now, when they are trying to develop themselves, because they are developing; all the developing countries are doing it through their ego, so naturally their ego is very much developed, that’s why I’m saying that, “Put your right hand.” But in the countries which are really over developed now, who are fed up of their ego and fed up, they call themselves as “colossal egoistical people” and they condemn themselves for that. All the time what they are doing is to condemn themselves, this is the superego acting.
To condemn themselves they’ll go out of the way to do all kinds of hazardous thing. If you tell them, “You stand on your heads,” they will stand on their heads.
They will do everything that you tell them and they will try to, sort of, give trouble to their body, they’ll say, “What’s the use of having a nice house, let us sleep on the ground.” And they’ll do all these things just to torture themselves because their superego starts acting on the ego. And by which you see they again go to the other extreme. What you have to do is to be in balance.
[Shri Mataji talks to someone in front]
Now let Me down, ha. You keep your question till the end, you should say. Are you sitting in the front for that? Now you don’t disturb everyone please, for heavens sake.
Shri Mataji: No, no, it is a disturbance because My thoughts are going and you just now keep quiet because I’m reading everybody’s mind and answering. All right, just keep quiet because everybody’s disturbed.
So, now what happens, that the thought – you see of thoughts of a superego is just to make the ego look down. So it pushes down and it suggests such ideas like, “We should sacrifice everything, why should we have a household, why should we have children, why should we have all these junky, affluent things? Let us lead a life of a ascetic.” But in the asceticism in their asceticism they take to drugs because it is a superego style. Drug is a superego style. If you take to drinks, if you take to these things too much then you are going to the superego style. Ego style would be, would be not to take to drinks. Asceticism is to kill yourself, comes from the left hand side, in the sense that the superego tells you that you just give up things. But actually it is not, because the main thing is that they do it, they do all these things, but actually in the heart of hearts or what you can say, the mind of minds, what they want to do is to indulge into a very superego activity and the superego activity is drinks, drugs and sex, these three.
Actually this is the main thing but they think they have given up, you see, they believe in it, they believe in it. Not that they are in any way… they are genuine, they are genuinely believing in it. They believe that by doing sex, over-activity of the sex, by doing, taking drugs and by being a sort of very licentious and very permissive, they have been trying to go to God. Actually they believe in it, I tell you, you don’t condemn them because it is their faith. They think that these people have been keeping to these rules and regulation, it has come as a reaction, you see. See, in England they the had those straight coats, and you could have five types of glasses on the table and you have to use this for the whiskey, that for the thing and this for that and so much of regimentation that when they wanted to give it up they said, “Now let us give it up completely.” So when they gave it up, as a reaction, it worked so well that they have given up, they think they have given up everything, but they have given up all that was good, all that was nice and whatever was bad they have taken it up, even in a worse way – means licentiousness, permissiveness, drinks, drinking, drugs and sex. So this how the sup- this thing works out.
Now the right hand side: the egoistical man. He may be a man who might be a absolutely a, absolutely a puritanical, he can be puritanical also. You might find many like this. For example we can see in our scriptures, we have people like Harishchandra… the one who was torturing Harishchandra, [Shri Mataji asks for the name in Hindi, sounds like:] kya naam ka? Ha?
Shri Mataji: Vishwamitra. Then we have got many others, you know, so many of them like hot-tempered people, very hot-tempered, you cannot touch them. But you see, because they had no wife, no children, nothing, no balancing, they lived a, you see, with eating what you call these grass or some leaves and things and celibacy, forced celibacy, all sorts of you know, frantic things they did. Naturally such people had to be hot tempered. You know they were heated up by their, this forced thing. I mean going through another extreme of things, you see, to – I mean whatever was natural. God has given you all these natural things – live in a sanctified, natural way. But either you will have ten women or you will have no woman some sort of a, you see an extreme behavior from one to another, going to one extreme to another. And when they went to another extreme, the ego, you see they were so egoistical, you have read about these people but you must have met many people, even in the government office you might see that, you see you cannot just look at them, if you even if you look at them they’ll just punch at you thinking that, you see, you have insulted them by raising your eyes to them, sort of people, you will find some of them around. So this type of temperament develops because of extreme activity of the ego that you cannot talk to them. If you say anything they’ll say, “Oh… I will see him, I will put him right, I will do this.” If you say anything, they will give you two slaps on the face and finished, so is better not to talk to such people.
Now we’ll take an example of Hitler. Now see Hitler’s personal life you see he was an ascetic. He married one woman, lived with one woman and that too a secret [UNCLEAR]. He thought that sex life was a bad thing and, I mean, there’s no question of Himmler or anybody having any sex life whatsoever. But they were very good at killing people the way they hated. So I mean that is so bad as this is so bad. Both things are equally bad. Some people say that, “You see, we are seeing some people who say that ‘We do not drink, we don’t do all these things and they are very bad people.'”
So I said, “But that is bad is bad, whether they drink or not.” But drinking is also bad, that doesn’t mean that drinking is good. They are not good because they are drinking, they are not drinking. It is because drinking on one side and the another is the, you see the whole thing is: “I’ll give up this, I’ll give up that and I’ll become this.”
You see, for example government servants say, “No, I am sacrificing my life for this country.” All these nonsensical ideas fill up your ego only. What are you sacrificing, what are you doing? You are getting a pay for what you are doing.
You see these kind of ideas, “You see we are doing this for the government, this for people and…” Some social workers are like that. They think that “We are doing this social activity, we are trying to help the blind, we are trying to help this organization.” See all these things crop up to make you a very egoistical man. So whom are you helping? Who is the other? There is nobody else. That should be a part and parcel of your being. All these ideas come to you from a very false conception of yourself.
You see if I am doing anyth … just now he said that “You cure people, You don’t take any money.”
I jolly well have to because I feel sick if you are sick – what can I do? I’m not taking money because it helps Me. It’s no question of My trying to be very good or anything, nothing can. I cannot help it! If you are sick I have to cure you; if I do not cure you, I’ll feel sick. It is so much so. It is so much of lena dena [give and take – ED] that I cannot do, live without giving it to you; if I do not give it to you I will fall sick, it is like that. Who is the other when we think of helping others, doing others? So these two things come up: is one with the ego another with the superego. It can come in anything. You know ego is such a subtle thing that people don’t see it works, you cannot see it. It just works just like that. People accept it because it helps them, people say, “Oh, what a dynamic man! He’s done this, he’s done that.”
If you see that man, is assuming one should see him like that, he has not enjoyed life at all, if you go and meet that person. But you think, “What a successful man, he’s done this, he’s …” and the ego is bloated again. Then again his ego is bloated. And ultimately he finds when nobody stands near him, “nobody’s [INDISTINCT]. They’ll say that “He’s such a big bore, who’ll go near him? You cannot stand him for five minutes. All the time he’s talking about himself or he’s talking about his business about his work; it’s all right in the office but in the house…” Nobody would like to go near him. They all run away as if they are facing a tiger.
So this is what it is. A man has to be a sweet person; he has to be a very balanced person, very interesting person and very, very harmonious in temperament. On the contrary such a man is – maybe, I don’t know if such people help anyone but they are quite awkward to be with, you see? There’s something wrong with them and people, children don’t like them, dogs don’t like them, there are many human beings who don’t like them. Only those who can use them may like them but otherwise it’s rather difficult to agree with such temperaments.
So you see these two things are there. [Shri Mataji makes a comment in Hindi]
So you see these two types of people are to be avoided; I mean both the extremes must to be avoided. So how we should be, people ask Me, “How should, we should be?” Because human beings cannot be but extremes. If you tell them one thing, they’ll go on doing it and doing it.
If somebody says, “Bhagawan ka naam lo [ take the name of God – ED],” so the whole night they’ll be singing God’s praise, the whole day they will be singing God’s praise and the God will be tired.
He’ll say, “Now let Me sleep, what are you doing to Me?” There should be some time for it, you see.
The other day I was with my grandchild, she’s a born-realized child and she’s, you know, because they have a innate understanding and intelligence of the whole thing. And in their neighborhood there’s a temple and some people were singing “Sita Ram, Sita Ram” – so she was saying, “Nani, ye log pura raat pura din Bhagwan ka naam Sita Ram Sita Ram, wo dono Sita Ram to udhar se bhaag hi gaye honge. Aur main bhi yahaan se bhaag hi jaoongi. Aur, itna satate kahe ko hain bhagwan ko? Unka sirf gala kharab ho jata hai” [ Grandmother! These people are taking the name of God- Sita Ram, Sita Ram – whole day and night, the two Sita Ram must have run away from there. And I’ll also run away from here. Why do they torture God like this? They only spoil their throats -ed].
And is very true you know all such people develop a Vishuddhi Chakra, you know these Hare Rama -Hare Krishna people, so many come to Me, they all suffer from the cancer in the throat. When you are not connected with God, all the time if you go on like that like mechanical thing – you see this Vishuddhi Chakra is used mechanically like that – you are going to catch on your Vishuddhi Chakra. And once you catch on Vishuddhi Chakra, you develop a cancer of the throat. You see, like mad people, I mean one should understand by saying these things if you are going to go to God then I mean God has no play in the matter. It’s only you, what you do, what madness you take to, that is how God is going to come to you. I mean people are really crazy as far as the religion is also concerned. They are very…
H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi