Workshop with new people

Finchley Ashram, London (England)

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Transcription of Workshop with New People, Finchley Ashram 1977-10-27

(o)? (?not clear)… they said, and they are all (evident?) and think that have very much ….we are very strong. Let’s come to you, that [is] what he did. He said:  ‘but I have been  Intelligent…(not clear) people were very upset by ..(not clear)  because I  met to ,   another one, this Krishnamurti. Krishnamurti… he said: you are all condition if you say so don’t you do that it is the condition you should give up, and you must become independent, see for yourself how … do (not clear). Nothing, you will do it on your own, don’t do  this . Now, Krishnamurti’s  disciples are much more conditioned than anybody else. I haven’t been able to give to even one  Realisation one person, of this disciple of Krishnamurti , can you believe it? Not one.  Because he says don’t get to this condition … you shouldn’t  get conditioned, so they get double conditioned , so he said I can speak like Krishnamurti,  this fellow tells  Me very interestingly , you will like him . He is young, he  is about say 30 years of age already And said: I can  speak like him, I can be a better  orator than  Krishnamurti , I speak just like him  and I know all his books by heart, and I can talk to people as: – don’t do this and that, don’t do like that,, and here I am, I’m sick,  I am not well, my voice is going down,  I don’t know what to do with myself, I’m horrid,  is no transformation, I cannot speak (?in the night)  So how do  you explain?  So I told him – then what do  you say?   He said  I now realised, that I  was doing Kriya  Yoga one side, when I did  Kriya Yoga,  I was   conditioning my one side and when I came to this  side I started conditioning the other side.  Now what happened?  [If] you start doing something extreme, you see, you start moving on the right or  the left. Now, for example, you want to become a very good  sanyasi, don’t get married don’t look at women,…(not clear)  , you just eat two leaves in the morning,  two lives in the afternoon all these kind s of a thing then what  happen, you  start moving on to right-hand  side, left is departed  you become a dried personality,  absolutely imbalanced, you go to the right extreme, you go to that extreme.  Sometimes one in a million, you know  if a  Mother feels  – ‘look at this mad men, alright  let him have Realisation. ,  he is going too far’,   (not clear)….so She,- one of them might get the  Realisation, one of these madmen, one!   If there are  some love left in them. But they are horrid, very hot-tempered, , they hit you hard,  they do all kinds of things. Now, this fellow, he said  that Mataji this side I am caught up this way and  that side   that way, what will  You do? I said it’s a hopeless case, though he  realises this.  He tries, his  Kundalini  comes up and  went down….  It comes  up to the Agnya….(unclear). Now,  five years he is coming to him , five years! So  this is Mr. ?Lainly  Baba and this is his disciple’s Yoga. Now you see for yourself.

 (some Sahaja yogis are  talking to Shri Mataji about a lady.  

Shri Mataji:  Ha, she tells Me and asks (about someone?)…  She never told them. But she was so bad herself, you know. There are permanent headaches and a heart pain, every sort of thing. .

Shri Mataji: (laughing) That’s the best thing. Now, you must get Realization, and you must go near somebody who has been to this Shivpuri Baba…. Terrible.

A man is speaking (unclear)

Shri Mataji: ….and this lady was shaking before Me while the puja was on. She was at (?first) shaking before Me, so I didn’t ask her who is her guru because if you say anything to a new one against his guru, the discussion (?lasts) … together. I said, let her suffer for a while, let her feel it and then she will leave him. Very difficult, you know!? Nobody likes it. Because they are identified very much with them. And she suffered so much, you don’t know. She had a…bad time, and now she is…… She said – when I put my head on Your feet, I felt two… of ice placed on my head…


Shri Mataji: But what about the one who sang  that song?  One better than the other, horrible, really, you see, this…..   Ratangarh Maharaj I had told you, this Ratangarh Maharaj has written about  Me. There were many  rajas who know in India that I am there. They tell them about, that She has come, and see Her. . This Ratangarh Maharaj the one who is John the Baptist .. . He was announcing about Me … He is so horrid… He is a  Realized-soul, no doubt. But he takes everybody’s   task to a great extent, you know. One  day he said that – Shri Mataji if somebody  troubles  You,  You must send him over to me, I would like to see him. . One person was very troublesome,  really troublesome,  I tried all my patience,  so, I told him – Why don’t you go and see  Maharaja. And Maharaja has called him.  He was very elated. O, Maharaja has called me, o!. One has to climb seven miles, you see, to  go to seat there. So he climbs. He is remembering  Me. Maharaja. [Shri Mataji laughed]  He went down. After one month, you know, I saw this man, he came to  My program. Very big,  he was sitting like that, . Both his legs in his neck and hanging (?)… What happened to this man? I say, why this Maharaja ….. What this Maharaja was done to him? I… what did he do?  Asked him, what have you done, why are you sitting like this? You had gone to see Maharaj, I didn’t mean this, I said what have you done? He came and started crying. I said, come to my house and tell me what happened. He came  and told  Me that he   went to see Maharaj, and  he was very nice, to begin with.  He said yes Mataji  has sent you very good, alright,  come along, have some food and  all that. He lives in a cave on the top of a hill, and he goes about on a tiger, see because his legs have become like this as he stays in [the] water, so they had become more, sort of thing,  like  (spongy?) So, in the night, the tiger came and threw  this fellow inside on a – what you call that? … it’s a … khad(?), into a  khad(?), he said, this fellow went down there, you know, and he thought the tiger had done,… but he was imbibed …. Maharaj himself had thrown him there, he said – three days I was lying there, I have to use the bathroom there and everything was there. . He couldn’t move out, bought legs were finished, he couldn’t move out you see? Then, [the] fourth day this, – I mean, look at the cruelty! And  he …some this, what you call it, a kind of a bread, chapati, he tied them on a string and laid down on this string… he says from there – “now eat them and think of your Mather and say all the time that I’m not going to trouble You any more, and you eat them. 

He gave that food, [and] after two days  again starvation come…then again   a little food came in. See,  after 5-6 days, imagine in that condition… everything there…  , then he brought him out. Now, he gave him a bath and all that, then he said – “now you  put this  legs … around your neck and go hanging to your  Mother. She is the only one who will  pardon you, and will look after you, not me. Now, if you  trouble  Her  anymore,  to your neck, I will do it the same way. (Shri Mataji is laughing). See, I am laughing now but, at that time, I  really cried . He said:   Mother, whatever I have done to You , please forgive me. I have done  great mistakes. . You should have corrected me . Why did you send me to Maharaja? I said:  you ran away to him  like … anything. Now, what should I do?

That’s how  they are. And  he did right and left to all the Sahaja yogis. He sits with a big stick in his hand. …and HAA! –  he used to hit like that, they are terrible!  There’s another one,  Bhootnath baba, he is a,  no, no, no…he has  another  name, that’s the wrong name (Shri Mataji thinks…) some Babaji. He used  to live in the Himalayas 

He came down, and   his disciple is already, his disciple is this Jagannath Baba  and this Jagannath Baba  told one of my disciples, in a place near Bombay, there’s a small little, what you call  – a village you can call it, not a village, but it’s a small place near Bombay, where this girl was there (the  SY disciple), and he went and told [her] that he knows Mataji  “you are Mataji’s disciple, and I must go and see  Her”. She said- “How do you know I am Mataji’s disciple and …where is your guru?”. He is sitting in the Himalayas, you see, near to  Amarnath, he said Amarnath,  and this Baba has told me, that – you go and see Mataji there and…..  she said,” Why don’t you came  to see  Her in Bombay?” He said: no, why don’t you call  Her here and if She  comes  here, and  can have a nice program here in our Ashram and … So, I could not  somehow or other, it happened I could not go there you see  at Ambarnath, you see, she was there …. I didn’t go.  After a year or so when I went there. So, she said that – the other fellow has also arrived, –  the Guru has also arrived. And  he was waiting for  You to come down. So I went, of course,  they touched  My feet, and all that, he makes Me sit on a …. He makes My Aarti, things like that. So, I  said:  how are you, how are you keeping?  Now, this Jagannath baba  (smoking?) before Me, just imagine… and this fellow gave him a … – A, have you  no shame? Why are you smoking?  (Shri Mataji is laughing)…..  He said, “I’m  sorry, I’m  sorry”. I said: now, how  did  you remember  Me? – I asked this Jagannath Baba , how do you know Me?  He said, now my Guru is also here, I must tell  You; I have this Agnya Chakra, – imagine, his Agnya chakra was caught up.  So this  guru told  Me that after 12 years Mataji will come to Amarnath d She will clear your Agnya.  I am not going to clear it. See now. So  I told  him why don’t  you clear his Agnya, you waited for  Me to come and clear his Agnya, why  don’t you clear? . He said: I am not a mother to spoil them. I worked for thousands of years and I want him to work. Why should I clear his Agnya?  Let him work out.  He wants to smoke in  Your presence. I will kick him [when]  You go away from here….. And  he was so frightened.  [that] he ran after  Me [Shri Mataji is laughing] and I removed his Agnya, so he was cured. He said:  Mataji better take me away.  He … because I smoke before You. I said: now, when you know I am coming  you should not smoke before Me, that’s a simple thing you must learn. He said-  I will never smoke  all my life…. but,  You   tell my Guru not to beat me….He was a realised soul; he has an ashram there, but this baba, the one who was … . He came before, -in My presents….. – He says: you are a  Mother; you spoil  him.  I’m not going to spoil him.. And  he said: – he kicks me, if my nabhi catches, he kicks on my nabhi, and he said – that’s the way you all are going to be alright. (Shri Mataji laughs). … Because they don’t care about your money or anything, they don’t want any position, and they don’t have the mother’s patience and love…..(unclear) . 

You know, Janaka  was my father, and he had a guru , …. twelve thousand years back. When Nachiketa came to see him, he said: you give me the knowledge of Self. Janaka   is the same as Mohammed Sahib , and he said that: -no, I can’t give you self-knowledge. You can ask …(unclear). He said alright. Now,  He made him sleep in a room where there was a sword hanging on his head,  whole night  poor man could not sleep.  And I said: why did you let him sleep like that?  He said: ”Let him try”, If he can sleep like that, then only  can go to the second room where I have put a lion there. (everybody laughs) And  he  has to see the lion the whole night. And  then  to another room . And that’s how it was to give him knowledge. They tested your courage, they tested – I mean,  nobody would listen to you. This Maharaj, you should see  this Ratangarh Maharaj, , he throws people down  like that, doesn’t listen to anybody.  

A Sahaja yogini  asks  Mother:- “ Yes, but how is it possible?  When God is love, how can they do things like that to people when they are  Realised?”. 

Shri Mataji: God is love. They do it in love only. They think, they do it in love”

Sahaja yogini: It is a very, very cruel love, I  would say. 

Mother says: “ Yes,  people need that sometimes.  

Sahaja yogini “Ya?”. 

Shri Mataji; “They  need it.

Sahaja yogini: really? 

Shri Mataji: Very much . It helps a lot.  … one thing is better.You see,  if they have given one  ……now  all these  bhoots would  have run away.  They  will go into another  who are surrounding you. 

Ohh! I see. Ya. 

Shri Mataji:  Sometimes, if a little bit, they are ill-treated. That is why Christ  had to take   a halter on these people. This is needed.  so many of them are like that. … these are  horrible things, you know. . I mean,  there is  somebody who is so horrible…. If I do anything to him, he will  . I know . Not to him, but to the other fellow who…. but  he will trouble him there. So I don’t want to do it.  I am doing it slowly. That’s how the entanglement has to be given up. But they have no patience, there is no cruelty in this. Is   love.

A lady asks:”  is it possible that a realized soul can make a mistake?”

Shri Mataji -Of course. They do, they are human beings,  they are not incarnations. Only incarnations  …. They are Realized-soul, that’s all. For example,  he doesn’t  want to come down. He says,  after twelve years I come. I said: . Am I  going to bottle you here? As the people are going to seat down here for twelve years, what am I going to do? He is already 108 years of age.    After twelve years what is going [to] come and do here,  when I have to do the work? 

….they think, they have done  work  and have achieved a lot.  You are made  in the pattern of Ganesh, like Him, not like them! They cannot raise your Kundalini the way you can raise. They cannot feel the vibrations the way you can feel. You are in a way higher than them   in a way. You will be surprised. I love you. You are the  special ones. If I am  going to give something  special to someone, who are they to stop Me?  They are very egoistical also , I think. Gagangarh Maharaj when  I was going to see him, it was raining very heavily, and he controls the rain, you see, and  the rain was coming, and he …like that, was angered with the rain he was fighting….  When I reached there, he came before  Me,  just fighting the rain  like that. … I was all drenched.  He came up. He said, “You have today killed my ego”. I said “How?” He said: That the  rain listens to You,  not to me. It was raining heavily, you got drenched. He was very angry . He said, “I made a mistake”.  I am angry because the rain misbehaved to such a limit that it has drenched my  Mother. You see, (everybody laughs). I had to counterbalance his ego. He must be thought that – my power has been challenged. I told him in the most sweet manner….  I said:  see , you had bought a saree for  Me, isn’t it?  And you want to give it to Me, if My saree is not drenched how are you going to give it to Me? There is no excuse, that’s why I got it drenched.   He was so surprised and did not what to do. All his anger went away with this, you see? All his anger went away. …

He said: – there must be more point in that also. I said: Yes, there is. That when I was coming the rain was falling on Me and the vibrations  have f flowing  in the  Mother  Earth. you will have a beautiful scenery here when the water goes inside  and vibrated. That’s what it is.  What is  this rain, after all, it’s My father. If it  is falling on  Me, what does it matter to Me ? Why should you feel so bad about it? No  Mother, I am sorry about it. That’s how they are. . They make mistakes …….. too egotistical. 

Then they think, why should you get it? Who are you? What have you done? ‘We  were standing on our heads for thirty thousand years.’ Why did you stand?… Who asked you? You should not have to. -’We are not married, we have no children, we have given up everything . What is there to give up?  Why did you give up? Who told you to  eat only two leaves in the morning? I said: – You eat everything. God has created everything for you. Why do you eat two leaves? Who asked you? And then, on top of that you   give an obligation on  Me, that we live on two lives while these people are married, they are eating everything, and You are giving  them  Realisation. They are silly, you know. Incarnations… absolutely  . …

A lady: You mean that….

Shri Mataji: You know yourself, only within yourself they are there…..(unclear) all of them are within you.

Shri Mataji works on new people.

HA! … Kevin(?). He is one  of these avadhutas only, he knows they have  no patience. … Terrible! Gets angry very much. He gets after his father… So, it’s better now? How do you feel? 

New yogi: Sometimes I feel  better, You know,  then I’m desperate for a while. I mean yesterday … and in the morning again troubles coming in the eyes(?). 

Shri Mataji: Let it be for some time, doesn’t matter. . … It’s a state of ‘satori’ (sudden enlightenment) they call it.  You should never have touched  these people.  … That sets in. In most of the people sets in, in the west, I have seen  – the satori state. Come up here, come up there. As if you see you have jumped  from the sea  into the boat but still you are feeling that, or you have passed through the traffic,  and you are  put on the hill. But  still, you can feel the traffic. Suddenly you know … you see it’s still  like an inertia. It is still working in you. … satori state. But some people just  don’t have it … It goes and comes back, and don’t you worry about the future or the past. Just … alright?… You see, [the] only thing, – harsh, can not be done (?). Human beings are human beings! Lots of nerves and lots of … and  nothing harsh should be done.  Thorough cooperation  should be done of that kind…. If you know your body or your emotions. Apart from the worst thing in modern times,  that people are very egoistical. You see, it is a very ego-oriented society. If  you say anything, immediately the ego is touched,  if you do anything the ego is touched . So you have to be neutral. Then  they will give you super-ego. Because you are guided(?) by these people. . So, they give you ideas. I say something, [and] an idea comes from the other side . I say something, then a doubt comes from  the other side, so there is a struggle going on inside. You too. (Shri Mataji is addressing another yogi) – You, too, have that problem? Or not. You don’t have the argument against  Me now inside you? Is there an argument going on, something inside?  

New yogi: Yes, Mother sometimes  is like I’m catching in the dark, I feel. 

Shri Mataji: But you don’t feel it as such a,   – you don’t feel it as a big argument against!  . 

New yogi: …. It is not a big argument. 

Shri Mataji: But that, he is getting an argument in himself. You may get it. Because you probably use your freedom.  So they (the negativity) are not going to do it, you see because they don’t want to live you   easily. It is not easy. If you play with them. They don’t want  to  live . They will come  to such an extent, it is. There was  a gentleman from Bhilathi(?). He was like, he was much more than what you are. He has  in spirits and things like that. He was starting vomiting blood and when he wanted to come and see  Me,  he could not, you see, could not. He got in  halfway he got down,  he said – I want  to go to the bathroom. And he just ran away  towards … All sorts of things……  I have to do . Now he is all right. He is a Sahaja yogi now. But the pressure is too much, he just runs away. They would say “Get Up” and Get Up” . You should  prepare yourself. You have to say – get out , then  would start seeing  lights, alright? …. You have to say, just – get out!  Now you’ll see them coming. You should say – get out! You can see them  even in the sunlight  if you see them as black spots. 

New yogi: I see white spots. 

Shri Mataji: white spots… better,  white spots are better. But if you see the black spot, if you close your eyes, and see a black spot here, then it’s a spirit.  . White spots are good. Good souls. . Still, you don’t bother about them also, alright?  If you see  a flame  that it’s a good, it’s a saint  but if you see a white spot, then you should consider it is not a bad thing.  But have nothing to do with the dead. But if you see a black spot, so the black spots are the worst  type, they are [the] worse type, and they do not leave easily. They are horrid . Talks. Just laugh at  them. That’s the best way  to laugh at them. Don’t  make too much ado of them . is nothing important. Do you know?. Useless things. Just lost souls. First of all, all your psychic powers, it works(?) . Everything will  work [out]. In India, we had many…  there(?). But in England, I think we(?) have so many of them here  sitting at every corner, you find one Christian is sitting there and, in the name of somebody   is sitting down here  . So many of them are here. It’s shameful, you know.  Thus, Christ was the one who denounced them  throughout.  Here they call themselves as  Christians among them, Pentecostals, devils they are! . (a person is saying something about churches)

Shri Mataji: Ha?  Christian is Church!?,  On this  ….they start with mm, mm, mm, like that . Now,  is this the way God comes  into you? … How can God come in  mm, mm, mm, like that? In India, all the place ….. .  God has no other place to go to?  Anything extraordinary happens, you’ll put it to God. It’s wrong! HA! . (Shri Mataji works on somebody). They are all within  Me, whatever you have. Don’t you  worry, I will put them right , alright! HA! 

New yogi: … drugs is being the biggest tragedy…

Shri Mataji: Drugs, you took drugs  or so? 

New yogi: …LSD … 

Shri Mataji: You  should not have taken more. Druggets  and chemists, Druggets  and chemists,  if you take to wash off their stomachs , you can start a drug company. (everybody is laughing). You know, when    came to Sahaja  Yoga first, then I tell,  you have to give up drugs, things,… do it, went back,  he got into a  brain(?) problem. Then he  was jaundiced,  so much he has done.  Then, he didn’t know what to do.   So he came to Me. Now, he realises. But even  now, I … telling the  stomach  is to work it out,  so may get some drugs for smuggling……

A new  yogini asks: “Mataji do you know of Swami Chaitanya Nand Sarawati? Ya?” “No?  I didn’t  understand  You. 

Shri Mataji: He … zero marks, . There is one incarnation, who is …?  

New yogini: Then is not this one. 

Shri Mataji: Another one is there who is taking out something from the fire, ….diamonds. ….. He is a well-known Rakshasa, you know. Ancient one. Who was born from a buffalo. He didn’t look   as a buffalo. His skin is like buffalo’s.

New yogi: his face looks awful. His face looks ugly. Ugly faced.

Shri Mataji: Very ugly-faced.   There is one thing good about all of them, …  missing, can make it out… Now,  this one, Sai  Baba, Satya Sai Baba. Sai Baba,  the original one,  is Mohammad Sahib   Himself…  But this horrible fellow, this Satya Sai  Baba,  you call him  Asatya  People don’t  think, you know. It’s very …. If you think, you can rationalise. All of them you can rationalise. . For example, now, take  this Satya Sai  Baba, what did  he do?  He carries this  from here to here. Now think [about] what is the   interest of God  carrying one thing from here to there. Haven’t you got hands to do that? Why  should God carry this thing from here to there? Think into diamonds.  He will give it to a rich man. If he was such a giver,  why doesn’t he do it for the whole of our country,  which is …. Why don’t we think about it? And what is the interest of God in giving these stones? If  He has to give,  He will give something great.  . People think  he is a God.  Absolutely brainless people. Think about all of them!. Those who talk that they are big . You tell Me  all of them, I will tell you what  they are, one better than [the] other.   

New yogi: It is in this book, I don’t know  if You   get  time to read it, so much rubbish around  this Shivapuri Baba. He talks in a way that seems to be good. Not in a rationalised way. So,  seems he talks  from experience and talks about svadarna and  … and it doesn’t  look like that he just read  it from one book and put it in another book, You know. No?

Shri Mataji: … Now, actually,  what  is, [is] no good  as far as the vibrations are concerned. Alright? That’s the  different point.  Now, supposing [that] even if you are not Realised, you sit and rationalise everything. Have you imagined?…

New yogi: No, It’s a book. That’s…it’s a book.

Shri Mataji: It’s a book. Alright, so you are not going to do it … 

New yogi: no…

Shri Mataji: You see, rationalised it like that. Let us do it this way. More practically. You are not going to … It’s a book. Still, it’s not good. They put (?there) Christ also.  Do it like that. Alright? Rationalise  them! Use your brains. First use your brains, through wisdom,  and then you understand. That’s the best. You tell your mind it’s  all (?hoedown.) .  You see, your mind is like a horse. . If you start in a way that you understand that you are not a separate rider, …  make you jump. If you make him go  this side, [it will take you] that side, if you take him this side it will take you  that side, . It will never take you to the right path. You will know if you are wise,  that you ride the right path. Keep your mind straight and think it over. Is it what God has ….? What is there in that he had written about God?. What is there? What is so special? Nothing! . 

New yogi: There is it a special, it seems to be a special book. 

Shri Mataji: But what is it?

New yogi: All the other books that I read  are rubbish, You know?  But this one seems good.   

Shri Mataji: What I am saying is that all these things are  so horrid , that I can’t imagine . It’s so horrid that….

(somebody:  talks about the vibrations) 

New yogi: … the Vibrations are another sort of conditioning .  a bit……

Shri Mataji:  No, I tell you about it. It is not conditionings, I will tell you, it’s very easy, that also can be rationalised.  everything can be rationalised. Now, supposing it is conditioning. You put ten children who are realized …  . They will say the same thing, all of them, and if you tally it on the person, supposing  they say that this finger  is catching. Must be a liver…. Has to be the liver….  if I ask  he will say yes, my liver is bad. But when they give you vibrations, your liver is all right.   Now, by conditioning, you don’t cure people. And  ten children sitting down  say the same thing. That’s how you must find it. Then you do it yourself.  If by conditioning you can give them sort of, a feeling of thoughtless awareness, collective consciousness. Sitting down there, no. Where is your chakra catching? All of them are saying the same thing. No question. We are not paying for it. If it is conditioning, how can  they say the same thing? All right, even supposing they are hypnotised and, sort of sect.  But they are curing you, they are raising your Kundalini, you can see with your naked eyes,  the rising of the Kundalini. Then, still, you are not going to believe it? This is going too far.  And this nonsense whom you have never seen  , you are  believing so much, and you are talking  about him so much. What is this mind you … . The man whom you are  not  going to meet, you have never known, who is a rubbish, useless fellow, why are you taking his side? Think about it. Rationality. Now see what is the mind. Now you see, clear your mind. You can clearly see, how it is. This is not helping.   Is not being sensible. Where is he taking you? To this man. Whom you are not known, you are not met, just…. And  what is your connection with him? Nothing.  At the most you can say because you are Russian, and  this Guru, that may be the reason …. It’s too far. I mean,  at the most you can go to the last … with you want to say.  But I am sitting before you,  I am here. I am going to work it out. You have felt the vibrations,  … done everything.  and, you see these thoughts (?) . Go ahead, settle your mind. Go fast. The more you are going to stand with it,  the more you will go backwards …. This is the only difference between a Sahaja yogi who moves fast and a Sahaja yogi who flocks.  Because you know you are there. This is what it is. That is what you are finding…. You have to settle down.   Gavin has said, he must testing   Me ….and all. But certain points  he rationalised, that, what is  Mother seeking for Her?   She doesn’t need anything. She doesn’t want anything, nothing. Now, She is doing all this. He has seen it with naked eyes, the Kundalini rising. He had  seen becoming thoughtlessly aware. Now, how can he not believe? 

New yogi: He has to have a lot of  experience. 

Shri Mataji: Experience!  That’s what I am saying. You see, by this thing, you do not become   anything!  Nothing! You have to become something. The Becoming, you have to believe. And  unless and until you believe into becoming these things are going to keep you away because they will make you very superficial. Because they will not make you anything, [the] only thing, what will happen, you will be reading them. You will be doing this,   doing that. It is not doing; it is becoming, I am talking about.   Is the actualization [of] what I am talking about. The one who can give  you actualisation, you go to that.  But not to ones who just leads things, he is misleading. You’ll know yourself, you are going on the right path. . . You must ask for the becoming. You become. You have to be that. That’s what it is. It’s  only talking, talking, talking, talking. Like, I would say that, people have to say the,  – people  started first talking about the flowers because they wanted you to have the hung ….  So they say let’s talk  of the flowers. People will start  going to the flowers and they will get the hung.  So people started talking of  flowers, flowers, flowers, morning till evening. So  what happened?     They talked to everybody, talked of this talked of  that all the forms of  flowers. Nobody got the hang. Alright.  They said,  no use of talking about the flowers, let us  talk about the leaves. Mohammed Sahib  taught,  you see,  so many of them taught like this. Christ did.  Let us talk about the abstract(?)  so they started talking. No use.  It was talk, talk, talk,  because whenever they talk, what happened?  People became  talking about it. Nobody  became that ! Now, you will have to  become  a being!  You get them and  you have to become that!  Unless and until you become that, nothing is possible.  Is a becoming!  And these things,  you cannot become by reading, how can you become? You need to say because you can reading this, you can … 

New yogi: Oh! No , I realize that. I realized I get mental indigestion.

Shri Mataji: Actually, you are getting mental indigestion,  but rationally if you understand, children, for example, do not read. A person who is uneducated cannot read, if he cannot read, then he cannot get caught. If it is an universal  phenomena, (Shri Mataji is addressing to some people who are coming) Ah hello. 

New yogi: That’s my girlfriend. 

Shri Mataji: … how are you? Sit down. She is very nice. 

New yogi: Yes. His? Sister  is  very good too. 

Shri Mataji: A, excellent!

New yogi:……(laugh)

Shri Mataji: I know. But it will be alright. I will  put you  right. Put your hands like this. Alright? . What’s your name? 

Seeker lady: Mandy. 

Shri Mataji: Mandy? Mandy, sit with your hands…  

New yogi: : She comes from a loving family. Her parents  love her.

Shri Mataji:  You must teach him how to love. Ah! I will teach. You see now  ….… and  too much reading also makes a person non-loving. Because you cannot read about love. The language  of love cannot be read. Ha, you want to read? After  realisation, not before, I would say [Because] You won’t understand -[read]  Kahlil Gibran. … Read something sensible. What’s this? From this side,  he looks like a monkey. … How did he die?

New yogi: It said he died at …a hundred and thirty-eight, he died,  that’s what the book says anyway. 

Shri Mataji: he died at 138 of age. So, what?   There are some people in India who are even …..of that age. Why was he living a life like that?… But you haven’t got this book. This    has been got?  to you by this horrible … get you all this, otherwise, after some time you cannot even bear them. . We have one Sahaja Yogi, he drowned so much, I mean …he gets tense , so many of them. Just went and throw  them off. (Shri Mataji is addressing to someone else). Hm, just see. Are you feeling fine? 


(somebody said): H  sister is good too. 

Shri Mataji: You haven’t got it from anywhere now, so you better come together. [The] thing is as like  small, little children I have   carrying in a boat and   there are all kinds of  ….come back, come back….nice there. Rather jump back. (Shri Mataji is laughing) . It’s a mad, mad, mad. HA! Oh! She is good! She is a good girl! Despite these things, she is not caught up. Pull your ears like this and it will go away. Just like this. You see, you should ask Me for forgiveness. …HA! (Shri Mataji is working on somebody). HA! Better now for every one of us? You are filling all lighter? I think a …. have been here. … come now, it’s no end to it. You  have to (?grow)   in silence …. It’s quite  distinctive. More inside. Gradually you’ll find  [that] all your doubts will vanish.   When   you start , using this, all you … as if, when you give to somebody lots of money, and he doubts whether I should …or something else, many start feeling that he realises that is very precious … and when you start spreading it … so try to accumulate more and more …is for your own good, nothing is for Me. . Alright? This one is alright.  … Neem Kauri baba, have you heard of him? Neem Kauri baba. …His disciple has come  to my program. 

New yogi: Baba Ramdas ? 

Shri Mataji: No, no, not Baba Ramdas  he is another one. Another … I came to know all of them because of their  disciples, otherwise, how would I know? So this lady came to see Me.   with another very sensible man, who was…  a Sahaja yogi  and he told Me; Mataji, I was really … with You, ….(this lady said she is a doctor of a friend of mine and really worried.?) ….and she is going back….I said alright. So I asked her, I said:  come along now, let Me see your vibrations.  No,  actually, first I was giving a lecture, and she was sitting in front  row, and she was doing like this. …    So I asked this man, you tell Me where did you get her from? And he said such and such place. I said:  she  is very hotted, what sort of men . She said:  no, I went to Neem Karoli Baba, and I am his disciple. Really? … She is such a brainless girl, she said, he gave me his own water. I said: what do you mean that he gave you his own water?  She said; the water that he made. . What water  does he make?    This is urine. She drank the urine!  And she was boasting on them!  When I told her, she was shaking like ….

Second tape

Shri Mataji: …. catching on the right. …. No, you cannot. You are a saint! You cannot smoke.  You‘ll be in trouble if you smoke You cannot  smoke you know?  ….She is smoking because of you, I think, also she gets upset. You love him a lot, isn’t it? I also love him, don’t worry. … Is  so attached to him.  So she feels sorry. … Germans are very (good at vibrations?); Russians are also  getting their realization. I have given to so many of them. Because  in Russia at least fear is there no doubt  lots of fear.,  But  what is this freedom also?  Freedom to break your nose, break your eyes, break your ears; this is no freedom. I mean, Russians are of course  suppressed very much, but they are innocent people. Here what has happened in freedom,  you had become very, (? arrogant)  what you call the wounded soldiers. 

You won’t believe I have been here for four years, and I didn’t have a public program. First, I have ….something else. I didn’t have a public meeting, you see. Only in the first public meeting, I have met them, and they were very happy…. . 

New yogi:- Mataji she has pains, and she gets rashes on her fingers, it comes after anxiety,  worry …

Shri Mataji: See, these are blisters, now they are much better, you see off  this, you see? This pain just see, … see now, isn’t it too, … really, just see for yourself. She is so pale.

New yogi: – Oh yes,  she receives some treatment, one treatment, from the (unclear)

Shri Mataji- … Better? … She has liver. What happened?

(Everybody is talking)

Man: – joys… thoughts  

Shri Mataji:- you should have kept your photograph for them to see. (Sahaja yogis laughing) that would have been really nice, that you should have done at least.

(a lot of Sahaja yogis  are talking and laughing) 

Shri Mataji: you must see him, him, I mean, you are thousands [of] times better than what  Marie Baap Re Baap(?), Marie was absolutely… she was, god knows where she was. I couldn’t talk to her.  When she was talking,  I thought she was talking from some well, and  I just couldn’t hear her, absolutely, she was dying, you know, dying absolutely dying. …

I mean there are much more difficulties, I tried the difficult ones first (Shri  Mataji and Sahaja yogis  are laughing ) … but it’s a, …. and alcohol   you tell them how much you suffered  he’s put down at least ten years his is gone down in his image, such an old man this one, ten years can… 

…him, Justin, but about Douglass. I’ll tell you, Douglass. The one who is here. People who knew him for so many days, they said where is Douglas?.

Sahaja yogi: Oh, when, when Maria came  here, this young chap in a suit came up  and said ma’am can I carry your bag? She said no thanks, I am meeting my friends.

Sahaja yogini:  I didn’t recognize him! 

Somebody: whom, whom? Douglas!, I didn’t recognize him, ….

Sahaja yogi: He was in his best suit …

Sahaja yogini:  …his hair…

Shri Mataji:  Hair, so much of hair. The best is Koolis. You must see him. Ba, ba! Koolis, looks like a, somebody from the jail. But  Gus has really surprised my husband because he is so (? kind)

Sahaja yogi : He surprised everybody.  

Sahaja yogini: My sister couldn’t recognize him except the eyes you know, and the..

Shri Mataji: Oh, I see, she couldn’t recognize him, 

Sahaja yogini: She saw him at the stage and the meeting, and  You know,  I knew,   I knew this fellow but didn’t know from where?

Shri Mataji: (working on somebody) It is liver.

A woman: Is it possible to have somebody which (who) is not there, which (who) we cannot reach at the moment, a relation? I would like to do…

Shri Mataji: Who is that?

Women: It’s my sister of my mother, an aunt of mine, which I like, but she is very bad…

Shri Mataji: Where is she? 

Woman: She is now in (?Justinine) in Germany, in the west, but she has to go back. 

Shri Mataji: What  is wrong with her?

Woman: She gets very frightened in her mind, and she always thinks that everybody is spying her,  or You know,  these years, and   the east part has   She has got very disturbed by living in the eastern part because   she  was always been afraid, afraid, afraid, and now she is saying, I mean I have the feeling that she has really got certain parts of the brain  and slightly, slightly a … disturbed and I really I would like to help her.

Shri Mataji: …. Don’t you worry, you can do all … But, just now, you don’t worry. Just now, I want you to be all right. Just now you forget.

 (All laughing about something)

Shri Mataji: Oh! Who is this one?  … this is the worst of all I tell you, . 

Women: Oh! 

Shri Mataji:  Gus. Where is Gus ? Put  that one. 

Someone: O,  shame, shame.


Shri Mataji: Who is this guy? 

Woman: She  was one of the clan. She was  the most ….dissolute female s, I  ever met. She is in a terrible mess . 

Shri Mataji: …You know,  this Christine was in a terrible mess. She was actually going to the lunatic asylum  when she came to  Me. 

The yogis are talking….laughing…

Shri Mataji: Are you feeling better? Is your sister married or not? …What part of the country you came from? 

Woman: Australia? … country at East Coast.  

Shri Mataji: Which part? 

Woman:  near to Queensland border. 

Shri Mataji: Queensland Border. ….This is where you actually go? All right. 

… Put a  bandhan to yourself, so  you don’t transmute your vibrations. Watch Me. Hm! . Relax. Hmm. Do like this. . Lighter? 

Woman: ya.

Shri Mataji: Lighter?

Woman: ya, is.

Shri Mataji: This is the worst infection,  I tell you. This is the worst infection, that of the mind. . Watch Me! . You are alright. But you sometimes go down, isn’t it? …. Put a bandhan to yourself. You have to cover your aura, with your vibrations. … Better? Put a bandhan.

Woman: …  attention is better. 

Shri Mataji: Say the mantra of…., put your hands, one hand towards  Me, and say the mantra. Hmm, hmm, … silent?

Woman: ya

Shri Mataji to a man:   How are you feeling? Better?  How are you feeling? Better.


Shri Mataji to someone: Lots of black is still coming out of your …) Put it back around… 

New yogi: Today I used these small candles, so I feel a little bit, much clear, You know.

Shri Mataji: Better now? Are you better now?

New yogi: I don’t need these small candles… 

Shri Mataji: HA! Now,  are you alright? (Shri Mataji is working on the people). Yesterday you got caught from that another boy that Italian. You were alright yesterday, and then again you put your attention  to that Italian boy too much. 

Someone: Alex? Not … Alex? Hmm.

Shri Mataji: He was very bad, poor thing, he is completely infested. He was very innocent but… . You see, he found, his  Guru is misbehaving  to his/this girlfriend (?beeting)  and when he denounced them and they   had some sort of, done something to him, I mean…, doubling  the trouble. You  feel something there?  … Very upset. Everything is going to be alright, alright? Very  well. You are alright, now?  Hot still?

Woman: No, it was cold now it has become warm again. It was very cold breeze,  in between

Shri Mataji: See, all these things (?happen), a bandhan 

The woman: I felt a tingling in between just now before two again, In  between it was completely all right.  

Shri Mataji: How is it now? 

The woman: Now it is better. 

Shri Mataji:  You see, when you want to separate yourself from others, just put a bandhan like this. 

The woman: Left hand? 

Shri Mataji: Right hand. Right hand. …you bind yourself. Right hand. Then  you  test yourself.  Like this. (to a Sahaja yogi) Show it, show  how to do it  

Sahaja yogi: You cover all the chakras you see, starting from the left. . 

The woman: O, from the left?  like that? Like that. 

Sahaja yogi: Yes, yes. Seven times.

Shri Mataji: So, you become separate from others. You see, and then you can see for yourself.

Woman: vibrations. 

Shri Mataji: Yes, is just aura. This is your aura, your personal aura, and you are giving it a bandhan. 

The woman: I think I got  from him (the negativity) because I was sitting here. 

Shri Mataji: You got it from him. A little bit you see a  sort of identifying. Now  is it all right now? 

The woman: Yes. . 

Shri Mataji: (to somebody else) – How are you?… (everybody speaks at the same time). Lost.

(the music is playing, and Shri Mataji continuously purifies the new people)

Sahaja yogi: (who purifies someone) Agnya.

Shri Mataji: Hm? 

Sahaja yogi: Agnya.

Shri Mataji: Agnya… Hm? Both of them?  Just see. A, just  see now. How …. Just see now! And  these gurus never allow you to touch them! you know? If you touch them, they  faint. They  are, they get short-circuited. HA! Better now? Are you alright? How are you this side? Good? Are you feeling the vibrations? Cool brize? 

Someone: Yes,

Shri Mataji: Are you feeling any cool breeze? Not yet?  Did you give bandhan to yourself?  Do it  seven times. Again, bring it back. Bring back. All right. (Shri Mataji purifies him). Right now? HA! . Better now? 

A lady asks something.

Shri Mataji: You  throw away all these things which are not constructive in   anyway, they have not constructed you,  neither they  are constructed anyone.  Alright? (after some time) How do you feel? Better?… feeling this finger now?… Put a  bandhan. (To a Sahaja yogi) How is she? 

Sahaja yogi: Left Agnya and Vishuddhi. 

Somebody else: Not like this one. 

Shri Mataji: Hmm. (after some time) It is left Agnya… 

Shri Mataji is working on someone. Music is playing. Hm? How is he? Shri Mataji is still working…HA! 

Shri Mataji speaks to a Sahaja yogi: ……. Yes, she  gets realisation…. HA! .You get  …trying like this? He lost. (the lady tells something to Shri Mataji). This is the (?dooing)   of subconscious  mind. ….and Vishuddhi is better. Still, you are not aware? . Now he is come up through…  Agnya, he is crossed.  .  He’s on Agnya then falls down again.  

Sahaja yogini works on someone:  He is very cool on top. 

Shri Mataji: … Give him a bandhan. 

Shri Mataji says mantras: Sakshat… Sakshat… HA! 

Shri Mataji to a Sahaja yogi:  Sahastrar? Waah! … blocked… See what things they are doing.   Just see! Remove this book. Put it into something, into paper. Agnya is still not very good.  

Sahaja yogi: It’s still Agnya. Still, Agnya  Something happened  … pressure.

Shri Mataji: Back?


Shri Mataji: … Better now?   (?some guru) find out if he has been there. . Let him find out. Let him. 

Lady speaks something.

A man tells something.

Shri Mataji: is he alright? Raise your  Kundalini. … Come here. All of you raise her Kundalini. … he is better now. Are you feeling better now? Alex? Alex…. Put yourself into bandhan. (everybody laughs) Come along, you too …all of you. Till you feel yourself rising.  …. Take it higher. Have you seen  something? Have you seen something? Are you feeling nice ? HA! . (Music playing…)HA! How is it?

Men: ….pressure. 

Shri Mataji: Hello! How are you? Doing  better? ? Ahaaa! … How are your fingers? 

Somebody:(?It seems fine). 

A Sahaja yogi: It seems to have pressure there. 

Shri Mataji: Kundalini is dying. Raise Her. . (Music playing, Shri Mataji purifies someone) Now, what do you say?  Pressure is much less.

The woman:   keep  … up and down. 

Shri Mataji: Hm? That’s it…You understand that. Keep to the present moment, alright? (?then it will be alright)  What is the balance? 

Sahaja yogi: …very slightly. …. It’s cooler. …

Yogis are talking.

Shri Mataji:  Now see, now see, now see. Is alright. 

A Sahaja yogini: It’s much better! 

Shri Mataji: Now, now see. Every moment you can see. Now? 

Sahaja yogi:…little more, but still….

Shari Mataji: … cooler, Now see. … HA! Slightly, put your hands there. Put your head down there, I am sorry, you have to put it down  the head. Yes. Like that.  (Music playing….) Now? HA! . Now? – HA! . – HA! Say the mantras, loudly you say. 

Sahaja yogis reciting mantras. 

Om Twameva   Sakshat, Shri MahaLaxmi, Maha Saraswati, Mahakali, Trigunatmika, AdiKundalini Sakshat, Shri Adi Shakti Sakshat, Shri Bhagawati Sakshat, Shri Mataji,  Shri Nirmala Devi  Namo Namah. 

Shri Mataji: Again. 

SY: Om  Twameva   Sakshat, Shri MahaLaxmi, Maha Saraswati, Mahakali, Trigunatmika, AdiKundalini Sakshat, Shri Adi Shakti Sakshat, Shri Bhagawati Sakshat, Shri Mataji, Shri Nirmala Devi  Namo Namah.

Shri Mataji: Once  more. 

SY:  Om Twameva  Sakshat Shri MahaLaxmi, Maha Saraswati , Mahakali, Trigunatmika, AdiKundalini Sakshat, Shri Adi Shakti Sakshat, Shri Bhagawati Sakshat Shri Mataji, Shri Nirmala Devi  Namo Namah.

Shri Mataji: Hmm, how are you feeling now? She is feeling absolutely relieved, liberated. Are you feeling all right? Ah! How are you feeling?  Good? (Shri Mataji is laughing) HA! HA! Don’t you worry about anything. Alright? I will  cut their  necks like this . Throw them away. HA! .  What is it? Getting Vibrations? 

Woman: Oh yes…..little.

Shri Mataji:…little, very little. HA! Feel fine?