Finchley Ashram, London (England)


Workshop, Part 1,Finchley,Ashram 28-10-1977

[Indistinct conversation]


Finchley the 29th of October 1977. Questions and discourses after the first Caxton Hall lecture, 24th October 1977.

Man 1: I was lying on the bed [Unclear]. I was fighting with someone [Unclear on the bed]. I was totally [Unclear fid] off and I was fighting to [Unclear get away from him]. But at the same time, I had to hold on to him. So that he couldn’t get away from me. And then [Unclear there came] a flash of light through the window. It was a [Unclear violent] flash of light and I saw the other person on the bed and it was me.

Shri Mataji: [Unclear]

Man 2: He was fighting with himself.

Shri Mataji: Oh you saw the face and it was you?

Man 1: I did not see the face but I knew it was me.

Shri Mataji: That’s what it is. Then I [Unclear the spirit].

Man 1: It was a very powerful [Unclear feeling].


Shri Mataji: What’s your name?

Woman 1: [Unclear Danielle / Danyal]. [Unclear]

Shri Mataji: You are an Indian?

Woman 1: No I come from Mauritius. [Unclear].

Shri Mataji: Yes, Lots of Indians there.


Shri Mataji: Did you feel any vibrations Danyal [Unclear back there]?

Woman 1: Yes I did. [Unclear]

[Indistinct conversation]


Shri Mataji: You see, how it comes I [Unclear don’t know]. You are condemned in your childhood, many a times. And then you get separated with the spiritual. And you also start, one part starts condemning the other part. Actually its really you becoming [Unclear] with your past [Unclear]. It becomes your personality.

I feel that the more people are advancing in there [Unclear] things, the worse they are with their own children. It becomes very unnatural. This kind of development is [Unclear not useful]. When a child is [Unclear supposing] its [Unclear] the spirit, is [Unclear comfort], then you have [Unclear].

The child becomes [Unclear]. Very unimportant in your family. Everything else is important but the child.


Shri Mataji: Now see for yourself. An Australian wasting my time for nothing at all. I’m going to [Unclear blame] you for that.

[Shri Mataji probably speaking on the phone since there is no other voice]


[Preparations for the workshop probably going on]


[Mantras being chanted]
Oom twamev sakshat, Shri Saraswati mata sakshat,
Shri Adisakti sakshat, Shri Bhramha Dev sakshat,
Shri Mataji, Shri Nirmala Devi, namo namaha

[Shri Ma Jagdamba’s name spoken many times]

Man 2: Today I was looking at the picture and [Unclear my mind was still]. I forgave the [Unclear demons] of my mind. [Unclear]

Shri Mataji: [Unclear Find them out]

Man 2: [Unclear]

Shri Mataji: Now I hope [Unclear] that you are with them. They’ll only make you argue these things out. You are not here to represent them in any way, isn’t it? You don’t have their lawyer’s [Unclear certificate]. [Unclear].

Shri Mataji: It’s a waste of time. For you, for others, for everyone. Absolute waste of time.

Man 2: [Unclear Must be]. [Unclear]

Shri Mataji: Now you just think it like this. How you will help? [Unclear] Someone else is [Unclear]. You are a [Unclear passionate] person. [Unclear] Why should I? What is the need? She knows everthing, she knows. But it is the past thing. Nothing important. What is important is how much am I going to know about it. How much I’m going to achieve. That’s the point. Even if there may be something, whats the use? What are they doing? Nothing. You have to achieve something isn’t it? You are not here for glorifying them, you are here for glorifying yourself. [Unclear Look after] yourself. [Unclear That’s not] being very constructive about yourself. If you’re worried about others, what’s the use of [Unclear glorifying] them? Just see them.

Shri Mataji: When you read them, you have [Unclear them all] in your head. It’s very difficult.

Man 2: Yes, there’s plenty of books in my head. Too many.

Shri Mataji: There’s a crowd of them. You are nowhere. You are lost in the thoughts. Thats the point.

Shri Mataji: Sit down there. Now put your feet in the water in front of you. [Unclear]

Man 2: The candles were black all the time. Always black.

Shri Mataji: So now you will know what I am saying. It’s true, there’s a lot of [Unclear black/crap] they have put into it. It’s the [Unclear soot]. If it opens up the soot will go.

Shri Mataji: [Unclear] …

Shri Mataji: Better? [Unclear Don’t] get up. The only thing [Unclear]. In the beginning it happens like that. Gradually it will settle down, don’t you worry. It’s alright. After all you [Unclear]. And all these horrid people you’ve had for years together. Bad company, they are not going to leave you alone very easily. They’ll go away. Once they realise that you don’t want them anymore.

Shri Mataji: But I must say your [Unclear wife] is having a bad problem with her. Because of you whatever is happening to her, she refuses to accept that. Because she [Unclear] in [Unclear trance/france]. It’s a serious thing. Very bad.

Man 2: She’s not my wife, but my girlfriend.

Shri Mataji: It’s just the same for me. You shouldn’t have these things at all. Should have a wife only. [Unclear] a girlfriend and a boyfriend and this is all [Unclear]. [Unclear] you realised? [Unclear]. Otherwise he gets angry.

Shri Mataji: [Unclear] Ganesha is like that. [Unclear].

Man 3: [Unclear When/The thing] you were saying in the car was very [Unclear]. About the animals and the human beings. [Unclear How] their attention must be concentrated.

Shri Mataji: In the car?

Man 3: Yes, in the car you were saying that heavy animals have sex. In human beings it has to be more.

Shri Mataji: More sort of, yes. Human attention has to be more concentrated, no doubt. Sanctified. Because he has the awareness of what is bad and what isn’t. For an animal there is nothing like sanctity. It doesn’t think of dharma, it doesn’t think of sanctity. It has dharma. It is bound by it. For a dog doesn’t become a cat. That’s the point. It’s bound by it so it need not know about it. But man is taken away from it to see [Unclear].

Shri Mataji: Best way to find out this thing is non acceptance. Just don’t accept. As she said. You know otherwise these horrible, these [Unclear] people. [Unclear We/How] cannot give them realization. But she said she couldn’t further, finished. At that point [Unclear is all].

Shri Mataji: She said we’ll have nothing to do, get out. Then they get out. If some of them are [Unclear horrible] they are most [Unclear]. But most of them get out. Because they think I’m not [Unclear receptive]. [Unclear With] a person how doesn’t accept it. So they get out.

Shri Mataji: This you do at home also before my photograph, alright? Just put my photograph. Put both the hands towards my photograph and your feet just like this. And there is a mantra written also there. Take that mantra.

Woman 1: It’s in Sanskrit.

Shri Mataji: [Unclear] has to work faster. [Indistinct conversation].

Shri Mataji: What happened? She’s coming?

Woman 1: No. She’s not.

Shri Mataji: Where is she?

Woman 1: I don’t know. She was going to the country. She never [Unclear stops] to do anything.

Shri Mataji: What is she doing in the country?

Woman 1: She’s gonna go there and rest. I’ll keep asking her to not do quite so much. Because she’s always exhausted so she doesn’t have time to [Unclear anything].

Shri Mataji: [Unclear] We cannot force them, they have to come themselves.

Woman 1: I’m just worried that she’s gonna tire herself too much.

Shri Mataji: Don’t worry about her. [Unclear]. These people, they don’t understand. [Unclear] They have to ask for it. Then only you can make [Unclear].


[Unclear conversation]


Shri Mataji: For [Unclear liver], this is a very good thing. This is protein. [Unclear] and you can live on this.

[Unclear conversation]

Shri Mataji: [Unclear], and sugar. The doctors don’t know that the sugar is the fruit of human [Unclear need].

Man 3: When somebody has serious hepatitis they put him on a glucose [Unclear drip]. So, [Unclear really no food] they can’t eat anyway and then they put him on a pure glucose [Unclear drip].

Shri Mataji: That’s true. But the way they become eccentric about things [Unclear]. For example everyone they will ask to thin down. It’s a wrong idea. You shouldn’t have fat, you shouldn’t have this. It’s very wrong.


Shri Mataji: And another idea they give is, I don’t know if the doctors [Unclear give it], [Unclear tanning]. This is very wrong. Because if too much of the sun is taken on the body, you get skin troubles, get skin cancer. Brain [Unclear], you know, everything. Too much of [Unclear right hand side]. Too much sun is not good as too much moon is not good. If you have too much of moon, you might get mad. In the same way too much of sun is not good. And this is what they don’t [Unclear guard] you against. [Unclear In here] [Unclear] are [Unclear crazy] the way they are [Unclear mad]. One side they will say that we are racist. We don’t believe in black color. And here they will be [Unclear].

[Indistinct conversation]


Shri Mataji: You yourself will be doing it yourself [Unclear]. All of you have to do it. You all have to use your hands, feet, your brain, heart everything. Everyone has to. First of all you get well and then you have to do this to others. If you are uncomfortable you can put your legs forward. Sit comfortably. I told you, I’m your mother in the real sense of the word. You have to take all the liberties with me. Ask questions also.

[Indistinct conversation]


Someone: He’s got a bad heart.

Shri Mataji: He’s a heart patient?

[Indistinct conversation]


Shri Mataji: Next time he comes here, you tell him about me. Let him come [Unclear down]. I’ll cure his heart and tell him what is [Unclear].

[Indistinct conversation]

Shri Mataji: [Unclear] he’s not something great. [Unclear] his heart [Unclear should] be alright. Terrible heart he has. He’ll feel better now. [Unclear write] to him – how are you feeling in your heart?

[Indistinct conversation]


Shri Mataji: You must ask for forgiveness. And the you should say that I forgive, all those who trespass against me.

[Indistinct conversation]


Shri Mataji: Then he’ll be alright. Because, they come with him because they want to disturb us. Once he decides not to come, they’ll go away.

[Indistinct conversation]


Shri Mataji: [Unclear] scientist from America. [Unclear] And they told me, “we have come to meet you specially. Now you teach us how to leave our body and take it to the moon.” So I said, “why? Aren’t you doing it already?” They said, “No we want to do it [Unclear]” I said, “Why do you want to do it?” They said, “No it is very important for us to do it.” I said, “Now, if I tell you that it [Unclear] to the spirits. The spirits do that. They can [Unclear come]. And they can [Unclear] the [Unclear concept] of you from yourself. [Unclear You become] another person [Unclear] attention [Unclear] and you feel you’ve gone to the moon. Would you like to do that?” They said, “Yes, why not?” I said, “Supposing I also tell you, that they will enslave you. It will be difficult for you to get out of it. Still you will do it?” “Yes we don’t mind.” I said, “Why so much insistence? Of getting enslavement. You have [Unclear fought] for your freedom. Why do you want to be enslaved? By these people taking you to the moon. You’ve got your aeroplanes. Why do you want to go? You’ve already reached there. Why do you want to do it?”

Shri Mataji: So they told me that in Russia, there is some big parapsychology thing going on. And we want to compete with them. If they are doing it, we should also do. I said, “If they are burning their houses, why do you want to burn your house too?” They said, “We don’t mind.” Such fools they are becoming. Great big scientists. I asked them who sent you to me? I was amazed to see they came to me, of all the [Unclear persons] because I am very against all this.

Shri Mataji: So they gave me the name of one [Unclear]. Because this fellow used to get this kind of a experience. He used to get out of his body, go away, then he would come and tell his wife “I saw this and I saw that”. It used to come in the paper, make stage. He got some [Unclear sign] that he went to the sea. And she was so shocked that she used to lock the door and then she [Unclear contacted me/got into meditation]. Of course he started shaking [Unclear] and I said there’s a spirit in you that’s doing [Unclear all this/like this]. [Unclear] He worked hard, after one month the spirit left him and he’s normal.

Shri Mataji: So I rang up [Unclear] and told him “You are such a [Unclear fool], you sent them to me. You were suffering from the disease. Do you want me to put the disease into them or what?” So he said “I told them you were against but they said they want to [Unclear see].” I said now these people, send them back. And never send such people to me because I have to tell them the truth. Now they came all the way flying to India. Just to get this nonsense. Its very easy, to move this from here to there. What is wrong, you can use your hands. Why do you want to go out of your body and [Unclear].

Someone: Curiosity

Shri Mataji: Curiosity, must have some wisdom in it. If curiosity is without wisdom then its very dangerous. Must have wisdom. First you know what is the interest of God in moving you from here to there. [Unclear]

Shri Mataji: You understand? [Unclear] First thing and first test we must do. What is the interest of God? Supposing we have to ask God something, what are we going to ask? We ask [Unclear supreme]. Because you are asking for something nonsensical, you’re getting all these nonsensical things. Depends on what shop you want to go in. If you have to come to me, then ask for the supreme. I can’t give you this third grade [Unclear]. Alright?


Someone: Do you mind me asking what [Unclear we’re/he’s] doing. Any instructions to do?

Shri Mataji: Here?

Someone: No, you don’t have to tell me particularly what we’re going to [Unclear make/be doing].

Shri Mataji: Alright. Just now, I’m making you alright. In the sense that you should feel the vibrations yourself, you should get the realization completely, you should be cured. Once it is done, I’ll teach you and you are going to do the same. Because what you’ll be doing, its flowing from me. You just maneuver it. You just understand how it flows. In my last lecture I’m going to tell you all about [Unclear]. I’m not going to hide anything from you. Nothing. I’m going to tell you everything. But you should be [Unclear better/developed] understand it. Once you are developed that capability, gradually I’m going to tell you each and every thing. I’m not going to hide anything from you. Take it from me. I’ve come here to tell you everything. Everything I will tell you.

Someone: How long have you been [Unclear here]?

Shri Mataji: Four years. Seeking for you people. Can you believe it?

[Indistinct conversation]

Shri Mataji: One thing you must know is that by doing anything you cannot get [Unclear in/it]. You have to become [Unclear something].

[Indistinct conversation]

Shri Mataji: You see, like mushrooms, [Unclear] appear in rainy season. In this kalyuga, all these horrible people have suddenly come.

Man: [Unclear what do you see/seek] in the future?

Shri Mataji: Future is going to be [Unclear grand]. Already started. By the time, 1980, you will see that you have entered the kingdom of God completely. Already entered. [Unclear]

Man: [Unclear] all people?

Shri Mataji: [Unclear Not all people] you think [Unclear Hitler] should get realization? These all [Unclear of them] are of the same [Unclear], even worse than him.

Man: All gurus?

Shri Mataji: Most of them. They are not gurus. They’re rakshasas, demons. [Unclear]

Man: Why [Unclear are they like that]?

Shri Mataji: In their freedom they choose that. Human beings have been given their freedom. You have to be given freedom because of your evolution. When you are a child you have to be told [Unclear what is good]. When you grow up, then you can understanding what is [Unclear]. Then you are [Unclear given a] problem to solve. In the same way the problem of life [Unclear is needed/ is given to you] to be solved. In that some of you became asuras, rakshasas.

Man: [Unclear What is that]?

Shri Mataji: Horrible, satanic.

Man: [Unclear]

Shri Mataji: Karma? That’s what I said. That who does the karmas is the pure ego.

Man: Ego is the thing that wants to get out?

Shri Mataji: Ego [Unclear]. Specially given to you. To try. Like as we try an electrical thing on a battery, separately first, before putting into the mains. This ego is to be discarded [Unclear eventually].

Man: You don’t seem like you haven’t got ego.

Shri Mataji: I don’t seem?

Man: I don’t mean to say that [Unclear]

Shri Mataji: But you think I have got ego? I have. I’m the complete ego. When Christ said, “I am the light, I am the path.”, was he egoistical? [Unclear Because he was]. But I’m not conscious of it. What ever I am that I [Unclear have/am]. I have to say that. But I [Unclear would/have say no], why? Not because I should not but because I’m very clever. I don’t want to get into [Unclear]

Shri Mataji: I should say that. I should say much more than that. Like Krishna has said, “Sarva dharmana parityajya mam ekam saranam”. Give up everything else and come at my feet and surrender. He was egoistical if you say that way, isn’t it? What is there is the fact. It has to be told. Actually I’ve never been that way. I should have been much more. That’d be much better. But I thought that it’s wiser, not to go that much. You see, first you appear like a very simple woman. So, I put an illusion on me. Of a very quiet, shy person. [Unclear I was] an illusion. Sometimes behave like an [Unclear]. So they feel alright. Because your egos are so developed, that I do touch here, there, anywhere you see, suddenly whooom! [Unclear] come back on me.

Shri Mataji: I’m very clever, that’s the point. [Unclear] these people [Unclear will think] that humblest possible ever born. Humblest, now [Unclear this was/is not] so much [Unclear bad/back]. [Unclear Maharshi]. You’d think, oh the humblest man, nothing against him, [Unclear very nice]. All drama. [Unclear]

Woman: [Unclear] When I first saw you, on Monday, I thought you’d be quite gentle. But when you started speaking, you were so full of energy.

Shri Mataji: I have too much of it. I have been very gentle in my previous lives. Absolutely gentle that people [Unclear do not know even who I was]. But today that’s not the [Unclear time]. Here I have to speak.

Woman: I wish I had so much energy.

Shri Mataji: You will. You will one day. You will have to have that. Yes, you must have.

[Indistinct conversation]

Shri Mataji: The hole between ego and superego. I’m going to tell you about that in my lectures. Let all of you, I’m going to tell you where your attention goes. In between the ego and superego. You start seeing yourself whole [Unclear as conditionings]. One side and another side hole is closed. How they have crossed each other, can you see that? Left hand side, the ego has come. Right hand side is the superego.

Man: Is this something happening to me? Or are you trying to do something to me? While I’m getting stuck in ego or superego I think.

Shri Mataji: No, you must come out from the center here. You should be baptized. Now the balance is that your ego has covered this side and pushed back. This ego is covering up this way and I’m trying to push it back a little so that there is a space in it.

Shri Mataji: Pressure has gone [Unclear out/off]?