“Rationalism, Emotionalism And Wisdom”, Caxton Hall, London, 12 June 1978.

…Then what can rationality do? There must be some reason for having rationality in us [and] why God has given us rationality. He doesn’t waste his diamonds like that!

Rationality gives us the sense to understand that we cannot reach there through rationality.

Because unless and until this thing happens to you, you are not going to believe in it. You are not going to believe in it that, this rationality, on which we depend, which is our support, which is we; we all the time think that our identification is complete with rationality. And we are very rational and we are proud of our rationality also.

So then, you reach a point, through rationality, where you understand that this is not the horse which will be useful any further. This is the use of rationality! One way it takes you to that culminating point where you think it is to be discarded or cannot be depended upon. On the other side rationality gives you a view which can be related later on, when you get the experience. You start understanding why rationality was failing you. So, it’s a teacher on a negative way. It’s a teacher on a negative way. But it is essential because man was given freedom and he started using his freedom, he started using his rationality.

When he reaches that point then he starts depending on his wisdom. And wisdom is the balance between his emotionality and rationality, in the centre of it, between his heart and his mind. It is a centre somewhere there, in the central, or you say in the fulcrum. So, if you are too much on the emotionality, or too much on the rationality, you have to move further into the centre and balance it at a point, then only you are in wisdom, and that’s how you rise within yourself. Any extreme behaviour, on the left or the right, or dependence, is not going to help you.

This you can understand through even emotionality. A person who is very emotional, he sort of ‘loves’ someone, loves, you see; and he goes ahead with sincerity after that love, and he gets into infatuation. And then he realises, “Oh! This is not joy. How did I fail?” So he says, “I have a broken heart.” It’s better that he realises that. So he turns to his head. But he turns to his head to such an extreme that he gives up his broken heart completely. It is in the centre, in the centre of your heart and your brain, lies this fulcrum point. Rationality and emotionality are two extremes, but in the centre of it.

So, wisdom is an abstract word. What is wisdom? You ask somebody, “Is it wisdom?” “This is wisdom? That is wisdom?” Then how do you understand the wisdom? By discarding, by saying, “No, this is not wisdom,” “This is not wisdom,” “This cannot be wisdom.” Here you use both your emotionality and your rationality, when you start deciding that this is true.

That’s why I said these are negative teachers: in the sense that they drive you towards positivity. In the sense that they drive you towards the Reality. They teach you that this is not the correct thing. Take any one of your ‘political enterprises’, as I would call them, ‘political institutions’ as you call them: take communism, take capitalism, take all these sorts of isms that you have all around. All experiments, all your political experiments, which you have found through your rational approaches – they cannot give you a solution.

Democracy fails, communism also fails. Any other monarchy fails. In the same way demonocracy also fails. Everything fails! Then you realise that, “Is there any truth in going through these things?” “Is this the way we are going to reach anywhere?” Then you start understanding that, “No, no. We all have made some mistakes somewhere.”  But this is not possible for people who are running the race. [For those] who are running the race it is not possible. For example, I cannot talk to bureaucrats – impossible – because they are holding, they are carrying the bags. So, some are democratic some are communistic, I don’t know what sort of whims they have.

So these big Johnnies are not going to listen to us. No, they cannot! Because for them that is identified. To them that, what they call, is a ‘perfect’ political institution, is the whole of life, and everybody must come to it! That’s why, when these different ideologies and different isms start flowering you find that they have not yet reached any flowering and they just shrivel up, they lose their existence, because rationality doesn’t give you that complete picture. It doesn’t give you the complete idea as to how far man can progress with rationality and how far he is going to achieve the result. What is the result? What do we expect? Is to have joy. But any democracies or any communistic countries or any despotic countries, anywhere you go, you will find the people have no joy; they have forgotten how to even smile! You have give them an injection to make them laugh!

So, this rationality gives us an understanding that all our endeavours or all our enterprises which have been brought forth through rationality are not fulfilling. They show us something but finish off, wither away.

Same with our emotionality like we have, we have ‘faith’ in God. You have faith in God, so anybody who says, “I am God” people run after such a person. There are many who are crazied like that! The other day only, I was watching a TV show where they showed a man who said, “I am Christ” and he was the follower of Hitler. And he was killing people and he was doing all kinds of things and he had a big following! And the people were crying and weeping for him when he was facing his trial. One cannot explain these things, how these things happen. How can God be that poorly? And how could people who are talking about God could be like this? Because they play on the emotionality of the people. They think, “Oh I feel very fine”. “I have seen many of these people to come in,” “Oh I feel very fine in his company, that guru met me,” “Oh I feel very happy here!” What did he do? How do you feel fine? What does it appeal to you? It is such a subtle type of diversion from the Reality. It’s such a subtle type, that you cannot even make out. Specially rational people cannot, they are befooled the first! The so called ego-oriented people are befooled the first with emotionality. To them anybody who comes with emotions – stands up with very big emotions and tears in the eyes and shouts at the loud speaker and, as if he is just going to die with the pangs, or something like that (laughing) – appeals so much [to them]. Because that’s the balance for their rational minds, that they fall a trap.

So this kind of a emotionality also can go to another extreme of madness! Like you have seen people singing songs of separation with God. It sickens me sometimes the way it is done. It’s sickening! I don’t know how people like it. The other day we had that musician who came to me, so I said, “You sing me a song”, he said “What type of song, Mother, You want to hear?” I said, “Sing us some song of joy”. “Song of joy?” He was lost! He said, “They have produced no song of joy for the last twenty years in this country anywhere!” None of them in the English society or the Western people. I said, “No song of joy?” He picked up something somewhere, and which also had a string of crying and weeping in it. I said, “Now there is no absolute joy anywhere!”

Just think of it! The emotionality has reached to such an extent that you have lost all praise of joy, completely. So, we cannot depend on that kind of an emotionality that – in the church, you go and somebody stands on the pulpit and says, “Oh, I am like that!” with all the vibrating sounds and all that drama of emotionality. And you say “Oh! What a thing! Oh I was very happy!” If such a thing is accepted in life, I can tell you, be rest assured, that when such a thing appeals to you, you must know that you are not facing the Reality at all. You are not prepared to face the Reality. You do not want to face it! You might give any excuse about it. You might identify yourself as, “Oh, I am too much of a rational person. I am too rational, I cannot accept this. This is beyond me, I just can’t!” or you may even say, “I am English, bit too English I cannot accept it!” Or somebody may say that, “I am too much of an Indian, I cannot accept this kind of a thing.” But when you say you are an Indian, first of all, you are misidentified and secondly you are misidentifying with one extreme or the other extreme.

So before starting about your seeking, you have to understand yourself – which extreme you are standing. Very important it is. Very important it is to understand this part, “Where do I stand before I ask for Self-realisation?”

The another thing about Self-realisation [which] is very important, specially in the Western mind, which I must tell you – I say ‘Western’ because Eastern have not yet gone to that end of rationality, that’s why – that, one has to understand that we are asking for Truth; and Truth is not going to fall at your feet. It is not a clinic opened out here where you have paid the money and you go to the doctor and tell him, “Do I have fever despite the fact [that] you gave me medicine?” And you report to him that, “What is this? I paid you ten pounds and nothing has happened to me so far, what about my excuse?” You cannot demand from the Truth anything like that. Now this is difficult for a Western mind to understand! To me also they treat in the same manner! While I’m just good at receiving something. So I must warn you, nobody is going to fall at your feet or run after you that you get your Self-realisation. No. That absolutely must be understood by all of you.

You cannot purchase it. You cannot pay for it. You cannot control it. You cannot ask for it. It is the grace which has to work it out,  which human beings cannot understand, you see. We have never done like that, we have never seen like that. Everything is a shopping with us. So our shopping style of mind has to be changed a little. We are not shopping God. There is no shopping involved.

Whenever I meet people I find this attitude in them. As if you have gone to the river Ganges to fill up your bucket and the bucket, instead of putting from the side where there is the place for the water to enter in, you are putting from the other side. And then you say, “How is it Mother I didn’t get it? There must be some fake about you.” “Yes and there is. So please give me up!”

It is difficult because we are used to pampering. Even doctors pamper you; they tell us lies. Even if there is nothing wrong, they give medicinal water injection to say you are sick. Because they have to do their business! Everybody pampers you, tells lies. But here there’s no question [of that]. There’s no need to be pampered.

You must know that those who pamper you, will never heal you. They are doing it because they want to make money out of you. They want to befool you. They want to take advantage of you. They will never tell you the truth. Why should they? If they tell you the Truth you will never pay them money because Truth cannot be purchased through money. They will never say this. They’ll pay attention to your purse, to your position. They are not bothered as to say that the human race has reached a stage where it has to jump, it has to breakthrough. It has to get into that collective consciousness. It has to become that. It’s an important thing. That is most important thing.

They are very low people, but they appeal to you because they appeal to your baser self. Even rationality is a baser self in man, take it from me. Through rationality you can do all kinds of baser things. Too much rationality can give you ideas [of] how to plan, how to rob a bank. What perfect plan is this? How to rob a bank, how to kill a President, how to disturb somebody who is doing something good. It’s a fact that they do this through rationality. And people wade through all that without feeling any compunction of their conscience or anything – “So what?”

So even rationality, if somebody appeals to you for God, you should know you are misled. Because [it’s] very nice to pamper your ego, “Oh, what an intelligent man [you are]! You know, you are very intelligent!” – damned forever! “Oh, you are very well read!” – damned forever. Never believe it.

You cannot read the Truth in the books. You cannot understand God through your brains. If you have such ideas, you cannot get to Him. How much was the reading of our Lord Jesus Christ? How many professorships He had? What school He went to? And all the saints of the world with him, any one of them, how much did they study? So keep away your rationality, outside there, just like your shoes! Be humble.

This of course doesn’t appeal because rationality pampers the ego and the ego is a big balloon, you see. You press it from one side from the other side it comes again. But I am quite clever and I am a Mother. I am a Mother, so I know how get it down slowly. You are not your ego by any chance. You are neither your superego. You are joy. You are eternal. You have lost it so please find it. And don’t dwell upon these out of date ideas.

I pamper you, but on Reality, on Reality and not on something that is falsehood.

You must have seen in the history that whenever a great sage came a great incarnation came on this Earth, they could not talk to intellectual people. Kabirdas, again I would say, who was a very outspoken fellow, very outspoken, he says, “Padhi, padhi pandita moorakha bhai,” meaning that, “By reading the learned became damn fools!” And the Hindi poets, even today, criticise him that his language was very vulgar, was very rude; [that] he was very a crude person. They call him ‘satukari’. Whatever you may say but he said the Truth.

And this is the big Himalayan task for you, I can tell you this much. With all the rational people you have trying to solve the problem. Everybody very ‘capable’. They will talk like this “I believe”. Now what do you believe? What do you know? Big things, you know! “I believe that this should be done!” Big things! Lectures! What do you know? Do you know that not even a leaf can move by your beliefs and faiths and by your talking and jabbering and breathing. Nothing! It is He. It is He who moves everything in this world. It is He who manages, organises. It is He who looks after each and everything, and it is He who has created you and He who has created this great Universe. It is not you or your, this, stupid rationality.

Please try, please try to understand. Because I want you to find that which is joy, which is very beautiful, which is great. And the time has come, the time has come. You will find it. The time has come. But in your freedom you have developed such a big balloon in your heads! Rather difficult sometimes to take it down. And the Divine plays tricks with such people, lots of tricks. And such people do not get what they want. You cannot ask God to get crystallised in your own moulds! You have to accept Him as He is. Just as He is. You have to just say, “Lord, we can’t [do it]. Now, let us just enter into Your Kingdom. Let us see for ourselves what is it like.” Come with an open mind. But you cannot just command that, “We know this is not the kingdom of God!” and, “That is not the kingdom of God!” and, “This is not the Truth!” You see for yourself. Humble down! Have you found Him so far?

The other day somebody came to me, he said that, “I want to meet God. I don’t want Self-realisation!” As if they have voted for Him and elected Him as their God! You want to meet God? Who are you? Very simple question I am asking. How do you demand? What have you done? Do you deserve Him? Why should God meet you? First of all you yourself must be clear, in that mirror only you can meet the God.

“What I want” is not the point, because we have seen in the BBC people go round on the streets and ask them questions, “Now, what do you say? What do you say? What do you have to say? What do you have to say?” It’s alright for political elections or if you have to sell some materials. But for God your opinion does not matter. It is the opinion of God that matters and not your opinion about Him.

It is His grace, it is His kindness, it is His compassion. It is His understanding about you which matters. And that is why, everywhere, whether in religion, or in politics or anywhere, we are nowhere near Truth, nowhere near. You go to a church: Oh God! It’s a headache. We go to a temple: another headache. In Indian temples these days they are selling hashish! And here in the church, that day I went, I found they were, all the girls and boys, were dressed up to attract each other and that’s what they were doing! And nobody was interested in God or anything! As if they have gone to some discotheque or some sort of a club there.

So, this kind of attitude doesn’t help . It’s a very great thing to achieve your Self-realisation, no doubt. It has been made easy because of modern times. It had to be, as you could never go to the Sun or the moon, you could never think of moon, you could never, even see what was on the Sun. Now you know what is happening to Sun, you can reach the moon; you can land there. This has happened only [in the] last fifty years. Everything has happened so quickly, dramatically! Fifty years back nobody could even think of going to moon. And hence, Self-realisation has become now an en-masse phenomenon. But it is not cheap. It is not vulgar. It is not sellable. It has its own dignity and its own protocol.

The person who is proud of his rationality, or of his intellect, or of his wealth, let him stay where he is. He cannot enter into the Kingdom of God. The one who is proud of His Father, the one who is proud of His God, and the one who knows that He looks after us, every moment, every time, will be saved.

My Grandmother used to tell me a story, that there is different talk of religion and to be in religion. And then she told me a story of a man she said that he believed in God, and that was the truth for him. That was his truth. So, one day, he found a man – of course it’s a story – going to meet God. So he asked, “You are going to see God. Will you do me a favour?” He said, “Yes, what can I do?” He was lying just on the side of the road, one side and he was saying, “You see, you go and tell God that, I am little hungry these days. You better arrange for my food.” He said, “What?” He said, “You just go and tell him.” He said, “Look at this man! He is just ordering God that he should give him food!” Then he went further on and through the forest he was passing. He saw one yogi, standing on his head with all his stomach inside, all bones showing off and as if now going to collapse into a very frantic state of devotion. So he asked…

(break in tape)

That’s why you must have Realisation. Because then you start feeling the vibrations, you start feeling the different centres, you start practising them. Then you settle down with the Truth and you know it is the Truth. Then you forget [that] you are a Westerner, Easterner, you forget you are rational, you are emotional – nothing! You become a citizen of God and a citizen of His Kingdom. Because you start enjoying the powers. And the power doesn’t mean oppression, it means love: the enjoyment of love of God. It doesn’t mean sex and the nonsense of that. It means the love of God, which is so pure, a joy-giving and blissful thing, which makes you one with the Collective Being.

But a person has to get out of his limited sphere and limited ideas and limited things: ideas that he has formed about others and about the surroundings and all that. Just that is all maya, is illusion! The Reality is only God Almighty, the rest is all illusion. And you must know this illusion when it ends, you are amazed that, “This illusion, how can it be?” How it works! It’s dynamic. Then you start enjoying the beauty of His grace and you start seeing it. And you are amazed at yourself that, you were this, so great and you are this, now that you have seen.

I wish to all the new people good luck. Let’s see how it works out.

So, please take out your shoes if you don’t mind. You have to put your feet, little bit to the Mother Earth also. She helps us. We are made of Mother Earth, that element is within us. And I told one lady to take out her shoes; she wouldn’t even take out her shoes! The another fellow says, “I don’t believe in any rituals.” Now what is a ritual? I mean if you need an operation, I need to move my hands or not? Isn’t it? I mean such demanding people I tell you! One day somebody might come with a hunter in his hand I think here, demanding for Self-realisation! “Are you going to give me or not?” (Laughing) It is so funny sometimes!

Shri Mataji: So, How are you Anna? How are you Aaah? You must get Kabir some time here, I am dying to see him.

Yogini: I’ve brought a friend Mother

Shri Mataji: This lady? She’s good. She’s very good. You have such sweet nice friends I must say. I mean, they say, “Birds of a feather flock together,” in the same way. Anna is another beautiful person, she’s a born-realised soul. And such people are really very good. She was misled by someone but when I told her, she was a little bit shocked, and then she was alright, because she’s a born-realised, she has a much more power to understand the Truth. But even if you are not doesn’t make any difference. You can make wonderful yourself. You need to know your own self. She has a son who is very much dynamic, Kabir, he’s very wonderful and very wise.

Now, should we? Have your hands like this.

(tape ends)