Ego, The West, Love & Money

Caxton Hall, London (England)

1978-07-17 East, West, Love & Money London NITL HD, 60'
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“Ego, the West, Love, Money” Public Programme, Caxton Hall, London (UK), 17 July 1978.

Shri Mataji: How are you? Better?

Seeker: Not too bad

Shri Mataji: Not too bad! Everybody improving gradually, isn’t it! How are you Dominic?

Dominic: Fine!

Shri Mataji: You are always fine! Look at that answer! “Fine”

He’s fine since he is born, but the whole world is horrid, isn’t it? (Laughing)

For a realised-soul it is so. He feels very surprised the way things are in this world, very much shocked also.

How many have come for the first time? Please raise your hands. Yes. Who else? You? Three, four of you? I think if they come in. You too have come for the first time?

Seeker: No.

Shri Mataji: No? You have got it, you have got it. What about you you have come for the first time?

Woman: I came last time.

Shri Mataji: Last time? What happened? Did you feel alright? Good! How did you feel? Good, and you were there too?

Woman: No.

Shri Mataji: No? First time alright. What we can do, those who have come for the first time, should either sit on that side, and it should be quite obvious to see you. And I would like to see their Kundalinis. If you sit that side that should work out. Or in the front would be better. In the front row would be better, should we? I think yes, that would be better so that you give them a support from the back, those who are already realised. Gavin you sit here next to me. This is your position, alright? Good!

Please come forward, please all of you. You came here last time? Did you get the vibrations? Did you feel the cool breeze?

Seeker: No.

Shri Mataji: Alright then what do you do? Every saint, everything is not truth. There are fake also. But there must be some reality. You see every copy comes out of some absolute. There has to be somebody absolute otherwise how do you get the copy? There has to be something, truth, otherwise you cannot get the falsehood. So I said this is a bit too much. That means when you go on denying things then you even deny the truth? Then why seek? And this is what happened with him.

But still you know you cannot convince these things because the brain starts working too fast with that, Krishnamurti style. You know, I have seen Krishnamurti’s disciples (laughing) coming out with all kinds of brainy waves they have, really brainy people, poor things. You know what happened, one of them was the grandson, grandson of this Lahiri Baba (Shyama Lahiri, founder of Kriya Yoga cult). Have you heard of him Lahiri Baba? Who was the guru of this Yoganand. Now this Yoganand was never realised, neither his guru Lahiri Baba. Now if I tell that people will say, “Mother what are you saying?” But that’s a fact, I have to tell you the truth, isn’t it. How can I tell you a lie? They never had their Realisation.

Now, this one comes to me, his grandson: he told me Mother I don’t think you can really give me Realisation and can I ever achieve it. I said what has happened with you? But a great analyzer and witnessing himself, you see. He said first, “I was the grandson of Lahiri Baba. Naturally I have to do Kriya Yoga because that is what I inherited with everything else. Whatever money they earned I inherited it.” So he said that, “Because I was the grandson of Lahiri Baba I had to take to Kriya Yoga. In Kriya Yoga you cut your tongue.

Hello Ronnie, how are you?

Ronnie: Well.

Shri Mataji: Good, Good! I am happy that you say that. Sit down! Sit down! Come along! Take out your shoes. Be comfortable!

And this gentleman who came to me he said, “First I did Kriya Yog.” Now in Kriya Yoga imagine, what goes on! You have to cut your tongue from down here. Imagine! Push it back to touch it here see and sit in that condition for at least one hour, practicing that. So these people always have their tongue coming out. Then you have to do another thing is a pratak, is to fix your attention here, and go on looking at something and all sorts of things, so that always their eyes are like this. Suddenly talking you find that they have gone squinty. Every method of destroying yourself, every method that Kriya Yoga.

We had one doctor in India, he died now. I mean we tried and tried but he couldn’t talk because they had cut his tongue, he couldn’t hear because they had done something to his ears. He couldn’t see me square because his eyes were always going in this way, that way. I said, “Now this kind of a great personality what am I to do with you?” You cannot fix his eyes, you cannot fix his nose, you cannot fix his tongue. And everything he’s done, absolute, complete destruction of himself. Now what am I to do? So who has done this?” He said, “I went to Los Angeles I spent so much rupees, went there and stayed there, got this thing done.” I said, “But why? Why did you do it? After all you should have thought of it, anybody in our country, we have had so many.” He was an Indian. I can understand you people doing that because you don’t know, but he knows. “Which saint in this country had a tongue cut and put it back? Any saint you tell me.” He said, “But they must have done it.” I said, “If they would have done it they would have written it somewhere. How do you know?” “But it is a very difficult thing Mother.” I said, “Whatever difficult it may be it is never tongue cutting.” This was Mr Kriya Yoga. All right?

So the Kriya Yogis come to me first and they argue with me, “How can it be that simple?” “But I said, “If it is simple, it is simple. Now see my house and Caxton Hall is hardly five minutes walk. Now somebody goes on arguing with me, “How can it be five minutes?” But it is five minutes, what am I to do if it is so? (laughter) Can you help it? It is spontaneous. It is the easiest thing, simplest thing. But people go on arguing, “How can that be that simple? Has to be difficult!” I mean, in this Kundalini awakening also, the second part, where still Mr. Krishnamurti doesn’t come in – this is the second part this Krishnamurti’s style. But, we say the first part is Kundalini awakening. I told you about the man who came to me in Kolhapur, and he was sitting just in front, and he put his feet [to me] like this. So Indians know that you can’t put your feet towards a holy person. So they said, “What are you doing? You are not supposed to do like that.” He said, “Please allow me to do that.” He said, “Why?” He said, “You know if I sit like this I start jumping like a frog.” He said, “Why?” “Because my Kundalini is awakened!” People said, “Your Kundalini has awakened and that’s why you have to jump like a frog?” “Yes my guru has told me.” So they sent him to me and I said, “How can you become a frog in your evolution? You have to be something higher you have to behave in a much higher way than to jump like a frog.” He said, “No, no, it is written, my guru has written the book and I will show you!”

So he brings the book of his guru’s guru. Just imagine! Very big name that fellow had you know! I never knew he was such a horrid thing. And in the book it was written that some people with the awakening of the Kundalini, they start jumping like a frog. Now, I said, “Now what am I to do? If you do not jump what can I do about it?” You do not jump like a frog or anything. That’s all nonsense!

Some sort of a stimulus has set in I think, something like that and it’s a reflex action goes on like that; or some sort of a spirit or something, because this is all absurd I think. It never happens like that. But a book has been written and they have thousands of disciples! I said, “Now what to do?” And in that great country, India, where you gather people know what is religion, what is God. I was amazed at these people.

So things like this, one after another. Then the second part poor our, you see he is a great, Bala is a great seeker you see, he’s really a great seeker. So he went to the second part of seeking, then he got fed up of all the gurus and nonsense and the amount they took out from him, the money that he had to give them and all that. So he said: “This is not, this is not, this is not.” So he went to another fellow, was Mr Krishnamurti, who has a voice and talks like. (Mother demonstrates the deep, hoarse, dry, voice of this false guru.). I went to his programme also, I wanted to see. I went to all of them, actually. Very serious people would come, [as if] something oracle of Delphi was about to speak. And I said, “This fellow is not even realised, what is he going to tell you?” But still I was just wondering [if] he might say something sensible.

So, all that he said was, “You are your guru. There is nobody else. You are your own guru, be yourself. That is what you have to seek.” Now how do you do it? So all these people are like that. When you talk to them you find that Mr Krishnamurti has come into you. So this fellow he told me, he told me that, “Mother you cannot cure me.” That, “Then I went to Mr Krishnamurti and he has taught me this. He told me that don’t believe in any guru. So I don’t believe in any guru. But then I later on discovered that on one side I am Lahiri Baba and on the other side I am Krishnamurti. I can give lectures like Lahiri Baba And also like Krishnamurti whichever one you want you can put my tape and I can start and I can even speak better than Krishnamurti, you want to hear me?” Then he sat down he took my saris, he said, “Let me cover myself.” And he really copied him very well. He said, “Now do I look like Krishnamurti?” I said, “Really you speak like him!” And he said, “Mother I have not achieved it. Now can you help me?”

I must tell you, I am sorry, so far I have not been able to do anything for him. Every time I go to India he comes to me. But now he feels very shy so he comes to me privately. But his Kundalini comes up and falls down, rather difficult, rather difficult. Because it’s too much seeking so he’s fallen into so many ditches. But one day it will come up I am sure it will work out, because he is a good man and he’s suffered for nothing at all because of his seeking. And all such people will be blessed no doubt because they didn’t do anything wrong. They just went because they were seeking. And in seeking if you go to someone and if there is any harm to you, then rest assured that you will be looked after, you will be absolutely looked after. And it’s the responsibility of Sahaja Yogis and Sahaja Yoga and myself, to see that all the seekers who are genuine must get their Realisation which is their birthright. They all must get it. It is their own, it is their very own and they must get it. And it works out.

But as I told you there are many hurdles and we have hurdles pertaining to every style of our living, it’s surprising! We accumulate the way we live, in what conditions we live, under what atmosphere we live. And as we are here, mostly western people, hardly any Indians, we have to face our problems as westerners. And the problems of westerners are a little complicated, the same way as I would say that, in the beginning they had to go to their ego-orientation because they had to develop their country. For example Caxton Hall was not there say for a few years back. Nothing was here, this was a place called as Londes, London was Londes and Londes means the place, which is, Lon means mud, and this was nothing but just mud here. And it’s such a cluster of mud was there that people had to dig in to make houses deep down, that’s why we have so many basements here.

Perhaps you may not be knowing this but that is how London was built. All these bridges and all these undergrounds were built because of that. So it’s a blessing in disguise that we could have the best tubes and things because we had lots of mud here. And out of that out of that mud, you know we created a city. And not only a city but a nation. And naturally people had to work very hard for that and life was very hard, and that they had to build up.

Then gradually when the science exposed itself to the power of giving a special facility to human beings the whole attention, the whole attention of all of the western countries, went to science and they started exploring how they can master the matter, how can they can get come up, how they can do something better. Then when they mastered also matter and all that, with that they started seeking again: “Are we going to make life easier, happier, and joyful?” Of course, the life became easier in a way, but in a way difficult.

The way it was easier was this that definitely you have cooking ranges and you have got what you call these vacuum cleaners and everything much simpler than the people who have to do everything with their hands, and they don’t do that good sometimes maybe as you can do with machines, some of the cleaning processes, maybe. But maybe the art part they do better.

But the difficulty came in when we did too much of ego-orientation, we worked on the right hand side of our sympathetic nervous system, which we call as the manifestation of the Pingala Nadi, ego-orientation.

Now this is the right side is completely managed by the power of Mahasaraswati: is the power. It’s a Sanskrit word because I can’t help it. But we can say is the power of doing something, kriyashakti, is to do something . So naturally when somebody has to do you think of the future all the time: “This I am going to do. This I must organise. This I must put this right. This I must do it!” Despite all this organisation what we find [is that] we are very much disorganised within ourselves.

So what has happened with this: even we have organised our religion which was the greatest hit I think that happened to you. Because religion is something that has to be left to yourself. It is your own thing, which you have to seek for yourself. You cannot organise religion because it is God’s own giving. You have to leave space for its working. On the contrary if you make it into a machine like thing, or if you can ask some priest who passed through some theological college and graduates in charge of that, you can never go near it, because they are the people [who are] just like us! And we cannot have faith in them. There’s nothing special about them. That’s why the religion became absolutely rigid! Actually you lost all your freedom that was spiritual. You will be amazed: you have political freedom, you have economic freedom, but you have lost your spiritual freedom because of this.

I do not say that there is anything wrong with having churches, or having temples, but it is definitely wrong to have them the way we have. It is such a compact stuff: you go there, you put down your name, they put the water on your head, you become a Christian. You cannot. To become a Christian is the most difficult thing. You can [easily] be Hindu but you cannot be a Christian. Christian means a person who is baptised, means who is realised, whose Brahmarandra is broken, whose top of the fontanelle bone is cleared out, who is absolutely baptised is the Christian: not the one who goes and takes communion with beer and Scotch whisky. That cannot be a realised-soul. A realised-soul means a person whose Sahasrara is cool, who has become one with the Divine, who has become one with the collective consciousness. It is something that’s a happening within, who is a reborn person, who is a twice born, as Christ has said. It is not the way people say, that, come along, now christening, at the age of say ten months or so, when you don’t understand anything, you go to them and they put their hands on your head. Actually it’s very dangerous, take it from me. Why? Because the children’s Brahmarandra, or fontanelle bone, is very soft; and that time these unauthorised people who are anti-Christ – they are all anti-Christ because they have no authority to preach about God – they put their hands there to spoil the Kundalini. First thing [happens is] Kundalini is spoilt.

No priest in India would touch here, he would not. No priest would touch here. If you ask him to touch here, he would say, “No, no. I cannot .” You try doing it, anybody. Even a Muslim priest will not touch here. Only a Christian has that much confidence, because it is sinful to touch anybody’s Kundalini, so no Hindu will touch here. At the most they will touch here, but they will not touch this part. You can go and find out from them. Even from the greatest rakshasas I call them, these devils who have come as fake gurus: they will not touch here either because that means you are just putting hands onto the point where he’ll be really burnt.

So you can imagine by this kind of graduates who do not know anything about inside, suddenly becoming your priests! How can you have respect for anyone who is nowhere near spirituality, he’s just a priest?

So such a great religion which requires people only who are baptised, just imagine, has been thrown to dogs, to People who do not know what baptism is, who do not know what Kundalini is, who do not know how to achieve Self-realisation, those who do not know what is the Self. They do not know the manifestation of anything. Only there they take money from you, make some diamonds, wear on your body and walk seriously to say he’s the pope! How does he become a pope I do not know.

It is understanding that will lead you there, not any kind of a reactionary methods, but understanding of the reality. And the understanding of the reality is that if you have to be Christian. You have to be a realised-soul, otherwise you are not Christian. So all Sahaja yogis are really Christians in the Indian style of religions it is called as dweejaha, dweejaha – twice born. The one who is born again, the second time he’s born. Like that, we can say the birds are also born dweejaha. They are first born as eggs. We are born as eggs: our ego and superego makes us an egg. We are like a shell. It has to be there, to have our I-ness to have our freedom to choose between right and wrong. And then when we mature the Mother can break the shell and you become a second person, the person who is twice born.

This is what is really baptism. It is a happening. You cannot give somebody a brainwash about it. You cannot say you are a Christian, you cannot brand someone. It has to happen within you and that is what it is. And if you are really seeking the truth as a reality then you must ask for that.

Now the problem is, when I talk about these things, there have been some rude letters to me, there have been. Of course you have every right to be rude to me. I mean, it doesn’t matter, because it is a question of rights. People here have rights for everything. Even if they don’t pay for it they can be. It’s not difficult for people to be rude in this country or any other country of this kind. Because we think that we can be rude to people despite the fact that they do not know a word about what I am talking, and they do not know what I am doing, they have not seen my work and the work of the Kundalini. Without going into it, they are rude. Alright, they can be rude. But the question they ask, one of them asked me a question that, “We have heard it is very difficult to get Kundalini awakening. How can it be so spontaneous? How can it be so quick?” It is! You can see with your own eyes. All of them have it. I can show you the rising of the Kundalini. You all can see yourself. I challenge you that much. If you do not believe me, you can give up.

Now this is an escape, this is a typical escape of an ego-oriented society. It’s an escape, “How can it be possible? It is not possible.” But supposing it is there. Very primitive though. It is a very primitive style. It would be like saying, “How can you go on the moon?” “But you have been there!” “No it might be a photograph you have taken!” All the time doubting. But supposing it is. Then the next question is, “Why? How?” Maybe I am something. Maybe there is a definitely something about me, something special, that’s why it’s happening. You better find out. Or are you going to deny me only because you think it is not possible. This is your own idea. You haven’t yet come inside. You have not seen it. You have not felt it. You are denying it, “How can it be possible?” Isn’t it true? (laughter) It happens that way. That is a typical ego-oriented mind.

When I came to London I had some disciples here, who are still living here, in India, who told me, “Mother you must work for the western people.” I said. “Go ahead, I’ll be very happy.” Because I know you are all saints, you are seekers no doubt. But this ego-orientation has given you another type of an angularity which is a very difficult thing to explain. So I said, “Go ahead! Definitely go ahead with it. I don’t mind.” So, first time when I had a programme here, we had about three hundred people, second time we had a programme we had two hundred and fifty, then we had two hundred, then we had one hundred, then we are having fifty. So you see we are getting smaller and smaller. On the other score, which I never went into, is an Indian community say or Asians or anything. I said, “I will have nothing to do. I’ll work only on foreigners to begin with.” Very few Indians here. I mean I call them foreigners because compared to India I am saying.

So you will be amazed that in one shot I get three hundred people here, Indians. They called me. Yesterday I went to Crawley there must have been three hundred and fifty. Out of them eighty percent got Realisation, eighty percent  got Realisation.

Now my disciples have stopped saying that you must look after only the westerners here because you can always work on Indians in India. They have stopped saying that. I would love to do anything whatsoever, work out for you, but what can you do about the Mr E.G.O.? This Patricia [Proenza] will tell you about it, she knows. You see it’s such a tremendous colossal stuff, which all the time is giving you ideas which doesn’t allow you to open yourselves to reality.

After all, what I am asking [of] you? What are you giving me? What am I asking you to surrender?

Somebody asked me, “Mother after all, we have to surrender our ego.” I said, “No, no. I am not saying that. Don’t surrender anything. But awaken your wisdom. Can you do that? That’s better.”

If I say you have to surrender your ego then I have had it! First of all even to say that you are egotistical itself is a terrible stuff, and then to say that surrender your ego is even a worse thing. But after Realisation you start seeing the colossalness of it and you start, “Oh God! This was on my head? Now come along Mr Ego go down!” And you work it out that way.

But take it, because this is what you have to have. You are not to miss it. This is for you.

Thank God I do not take any money, anything, it’s all free for you. That’s why. Because you cannot buy it. It is invaluable. It is the love of your Mother. Try to understand. Try to understand. It is love, the love of God which cannot be sold.

You have to think with your heart, can you? Can you think with your heart? You have to feel with your heart, to get to Sahaj Yoga.

This is a very big problem but once you get your Realisation it starts growing. Gradually it starts coming up. Even those who are quite rude to me come back saying, “Mother it has started working in me. It has come up. I have felt the cool now I know what it is.”

The another method which can be employed is this, the simple method is, that you say that, “I can cure people.” This I do, I can do. And you can cure people you can cure people. Now see Bala has given Realisation to him. I was wondering, he said he’s come for the first time: you can see he is a realised-soul. Everybody can see he is a realised-soul. [That] Bala should give him Realisation, just imagine! What is there? This fellow who was standing here, in Algeria he has given Realisation to three hundred young people, in Algeria.

And most surprising the way we are ego-oriented the same way we are very afraid of each other, very afraid of every person, very afraid of doing anything. Look at him he just went out and said, “Yes I have found the truth come along. Now you come along.” Five hundred people: engineers, doctors, all educated young people. He talked to them he told them, “This is what I have found out, now see for yourself take it.” But [here] it is very difficult for people to speak. Of course for politics they may stand on the box there on what do you call it Hyde Park and say something there, but for the truth, they are very slowed down, afraid of others. This is another sign: we are very afraid of each other while we are all tied by one thread of love. All of you are! You are all like little beads in the necklace of God. You are all such beautiful things. You have no idea. Only thing is you have not yet found the thread with which you are tied.

You are really very beautiful but this ego business is terrible that has made everyone so ugly. They just start shouting at you for nothing at all. What is there to shout?

I went to Crawley yesterday, now for example: I didn’t have any disciples there, but they have heard about me. I cured only one man of his diabetes, just one man. But he was cured, just like a shot. So he went and told that, “The Shakti has come, She’s Shakti.” Like that and everyone believed him. When I went there you will be surprised even the Stationmaster who was an Indian, touched my feet. He couldn’t take my ticket, he touched my feet, that’s finished! I went there, they had aarti and everything they did that. They all got into Realisation and everything there.

When we were coming back we sat in a non-smoking compartment. There was a tall, hefty, handsome looking fellow sitting in a very good suit and everything and he started smoking. So one of them said this is non-smoking. So he gave one abuse, a very nice one, special one he must have learnt from somewhere I don’t know from where he picked it up. And he said, “This door doesn’t say that, so I can smoke and do what you like,” because he’s paid for it, you see. But he never thought that, maybe, even if it was non-smoking or smoking, he never thought that, “I am disturbing somebody. I myself am am going to get the cancer and I am giving it to others.” I mean it’s a question of just understanding through your heart. But I would say, any other person from a developing country if he is there, if you say, “Please don’t smoke.” “Oh I am sorry did I hurt you? I never knew you don’t smoke.” And he’ll get down at the other station and go to the other compartment. He would not. It is regarded as shameless, it is regarded as vulgar, not only that but is regarded…

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…can’t imagine somebody can kill their children. I mean they just cannot think, they cannot imagine. They love their children. They can do anything for their children, and they go to any extent, to such an extent that they can even now supposing the Queen has a son and he wants to have money, then she can even steal things from the treasury and give it to him for sale. That’s possible for an Indian woman, she can do it. For them children, and family are most important. They can go to any extent! This is left side movement. Too much involvement in the family, too much involvement: “This is my child. This is somebody else’s child.” All these things are there.

With that, also, you can get very much possessed, as you are getting possessed by ego. And when you get possessed by that kind of idea, there are some sort of spirits also can come into you and you can suffer from very bad possessions of the spirits. But the only advantage in such conditions is that we think speech can trouble you. Supposing a person does that, the police will catch hold of such a man and put him in the jail. He may be a king, but he’ll do that. But for ego there is no treatment.

Unless and until you become violent, nobody is going to catch hold of your ego. You can say whatever you like with your tongue, nobody says anything. You be very rude to anyone, you have a right. This is what is ego. And I think ego is such a horrible thing that it gives you sin and you do not even feel this much. It makes you live in sin and you will say, “What’s wrong in it?” Sharing sex partners: “What’s wrong in it?” Running away with another man and giving up your responsibilities, your children left behind: “What’s wrong? Because I am enjoying!”

It’s very arbitrary. It is malignant. Like one cell in the body says now my this thumb says, “What’s wrong? I am going to grow.” So it grows like that and the rest of the hand goes like this. “What’s wrong?” Because there is no co-operation for creation in the palm at least, then what about the body?

It is very arbitrary. Do you understand that? It’s a very serious thing that a person can decide, “What’s wrong? I am doing this. Yes I like it, so I am doing it.” I like it. You may like it, but what about the whole being? You are a part and parcel of a whole and you are just a little cell. The only way you can become the whole is by understanding the will of the whole. By becoming the will of the whole you become the whole ocean. The drop becomes the ocean.

But we become small when we start thinking, “Oh I can do whatever I feel like!” And then when do we land in our own egos? In the orphanages. Ten old men in one orphanage, ten old women in another orphanage, and ten young children in another orphanage. Imagine! Under the roof of God these people become all alone. There’s no heart of a Father who loves you and the Holy Ghost who is your Mother.

This is absolutely self-destroying this ego, and non loving. I mean it is hatred to others. I mean I don’t know why should we hate others? We are so beautiful.

God has created us with such care, you have no idea. When you will see your chakras opening, [you will understand] how he has made you so beautiful, with different colours, with different deities He has put. How He has made you a beautiful temple, if you can see this here all of you. Just see this is the temple that you are made out of.  See the chakras that he has made you. How beautifully He has placed you. Through your evolution you have come up one by one. You are so beautiful. Now why should we hate others? And by that you hate others.

Why you should be angry with yourself? Why should you pity yourself? You do not know how beautiful you are. And it is you only, in the whole universe, in the whole creation, in the whole play of God, it’s only you the human beings who are going to be there, not frogs and animals and chickens.

You are going to be the chief guests in the palace of beauty and dignity. You have to enter the Kingdom of God. So why hate yourself? I can’t bear it. I can’t bear my children hating themselves like this. Why? Because you are limited, because this nonsensical ego is overdeveloped. Push it up.

You are not your ego. You are the Spirit. You are your love. Open out! Completely open out. There is no need to protect yourself, there is no need to have fears about it.

Are you getting the cool in your hands? A little bit? Yes I can see that.

Put your hands please. And feel very fine, you see! It’s relaxing all the Sahaja Yogis!

It’s here. It happens. Automatically it will happen.

Now the third thing is one has to understand that after coming to Sahaj Yoga it happens to you no doubt, but we have problems. And we have created problems ourselves. At every stage of our lives, we have wounded ourselves, every stage. As a child we have wounded ourselves. I mean you were wounded already. I wouldn’t say you have done it. You might not have done it yourself. Maybe your parents, maybe your society. There have been lots of wounds, there have been lots of unhappiness in your lives.

Then as you grew up, in adolescent age also, you have been wounded. And you had to be changed, you had to be destructive, that had to be done. Then maybe in your seeking you have been much more wounded than anywhere else, possibly. Maybe because of the society you have lost the purpose of your life? It’s very very possible. It might have happened, anything to you, makes no difference to me. You have come to me and that is my duty is to see that everything is changed.

Same with your Kundalini: when she is awakened, at the first shot, most of the people will just get it at the first shot, and they say, “Mother we felt very hyper, absolutely gone, we were lost,” they said. But then gradually it settled down and you started doing it for yourself. But you are to be different, you are to be cured.

And some of them write to me that, “Mother we don’t think we are ???” How do you know that? This is another escape. Who is going to spare you? Who is going to love you? Who is going to look after you? Who is going to do all that is necessary to put the Kundalini up there? So why do you want to escape it? Again you will go back to the same and as you have heard me talking, some people have again redeveloped cancer especially.

So this is a very subtle thing in which you have to settle down. You have to settle down in such a manner that you are never removed from your seats.

For that you have to a little bit be careful, and patient. Patience is the key word of Sahaja Yoga with you people especially. You must know, because you have mixed patience. You haven’t got patience with yourself, and you have got so annoyed. And most of them are like that I’m so surprised. They write, “Mother we feel so ashamed of ourselves, how can we be?” Now what is this? Whom are you going to face when you cannot face your own Mother? Whom are you going to save? Just think of that. Why should you feel that way ? It’s so very wrong.

Are you afraid of me? Am I going to do you any harm to you in any way? Never. I know your problems. I know mistakes have been done: what you call as ‘sin’. But as I have told you a hundred times, no sin is greater than my love. Alright?

Give me a chance. Give me a chance to work out. Now don’t reject yourself. Because you are the people, you are the lights that are finished. And you are to be enlightened and you have to enlighten the whole world. We are standing at a precipice now from where it is possible that we will be destroyed.

Look at the  joy here! He cannot contain within himself!  That’s what happens. It happens. When it happens it works everywhere. It’s really remarkable.

You are getting the cool breeze in the hand?

Believe me it is.

You see we start wondering, “How it is possible? How can it happen? It is not possible. It cannot happen to me.” Yes it can happen. Why not? What’s wrong with you? You cannot believe because it is too great, fantastic. But when we ask for it: supposing you ask for the moon and the moon comes, then what do you say?

You have been seeking the hills and dales finding it. You don’t know yourself. You don’t your past. You know why you were born today.

Yesterday an Indian came and asked me in my ear, he said, “Mother, do you mean to say that it is our past lives that is bringing us here? Otherwise we can’t et Realisation.” I said, “Why do you want to weigh everything? Why you must know why?” It is so because I feel like it. Finished now. Let it out. You must enjoy yourself. After all, every Mother wants that her child must enjoy. She doesn’t find out how much pain he’s getting in the shop. She doesn’t find out everything. She just says, “Alright I have cooked for them let them come and enjoy themselves!” That’s all.

You will enjoy everything in my enjoyment. And you must know that your enjoyment is the enjoyment of God.

God wants you to enjoy yourself. He doesn’t want you to kill yourself morning till evening. Tapping yourself morning till evening, hitting yourself how can you? You have parents, you have a father and mother. Do you think as parents would you like your child to be hitting himself morning to evening?

Here He made all this beautiful world, and he wants you to enjoy it. He wants you to see how beautiful he has made for you: how comfortable, how blissful is the reality that God has spread for you. And he wants to see his children prospering and enjoying and witnessing the great play of his joy. That’s what it is. He really has worked very hard and now this is at the culmination point you should not disappoint Him because of certain foolish ideas you have from somewhere. It’s very childish. I think it is very childish. You should be childlike, but not childish. That’s alright.

I never get angry with anyone, those who even shout at me. I know, they are children.  It makes no difference to me. But don’t waste your time. You have to grow. You have to mature. You have to enjoy the fruit of your seeking.

Look at our (??) he’s just a little boy. He’s very natural. He could be your great grandfather the way he’s knowledge, absolutely complete. So that’s what it is, a little child could be absolute. You all could be like that boy, absolutely like that one: No questions, no doubts, nothing! Just there, enjoying yourself. You just ask him and he will tell you where is the matter, where is the problem, what is happening, finished!

Any questions? Can I take some water, little bit?

Any questions. Today it’s a small group in a way it’s good.

Why don’t you sit down? Give him a chance to sit down.

Come along here!

Seeker: Inaudible.

Shri Mataji: Yes. I agree with you, you cannot go up, very true. You cannot go up. But there is something. I would say, that there is an unconscious within us which works. And if you say come to the medium path then it won’t be a problem. Just you have to keep yourself as you are. Say for example, now this candle is here. It is to be enlightened, alright? It cannot enlighten by itself. That’s the point. And we cannot know how to go about it. Alright?

But some light which is enlightened can enlighten it. But if this channel is broken, it has finished itself off, it is an extremist, it has gone this way, that way, then it is difficult, isn’t it? Still we can put it right, it is not difficult. Not difficult to do that. I agree with you. [And that] you don’t know how to go about it is the absolute truth. And that’s the greatest thing to say is that you do not know how to go about it. So let it be. Doesn’t matter, it will work out. But with wisdom, with understanding, you will know that somebody has to do it. Somebody has to do it who is real. Who is unreal cannot do it.

Now how do you make out a real and an unreal person? Because we are so insensitive that we are more attracted by unreal than by the real, really. If we had not done that we would not have crucified Christ. You would not have given poison to Mohammed Sahib.

How to make out a real and unreal is the problem: is that we have to consider the scriptures. Now the scriptures have said it, they have prophesied; all the scriptures have prophesied that you will be entering into the Kingdom of God. Every scripture has said and that prophesy has to come true, alright? Then what is the way to make out a real person? First and foremost thing – for a gross personality [to understand] – such a person is not interested in your purse, neither in your position, neither in your race, in your creed, neither as to how you are dressed or how you approach. Maybe some people I have seen they do not know how to come to a holy person. They sit with their feet like this towards me. Sometimes they sit like this, they sit like this. They sit any way they like. They are not going to harm you. But they do not look like children. Makes no difference. That is one thing that one should know such a person does not bother about these things. He’s only interested in your well-being.

Like the other day one lady said that, “I would not take that horrible fellow’s name, but that yogi is a very charming man.” “Really? What charms does he do for you? Your health is down absolutely, you have got a bad liver, you are looking so very pale you are so horrid, and he’s not bothered about your health, nothing of the kind. And how do you say that he’s charming? And by his charms what do you gain?”

So that is first: that outer appearance, his outer behaviour is not the point, but the inner concern of a person you should see: what he is concerned about? What is he talking about? Second. Is he talking [about] what the scriptures have told you.

First thing the holiness, the righteousness of a person, generosity. All the Ten Commandments that are written in the scriptures. Does he himself follow or not? Because Some of them have five, six keeps there, very nicely! They have also got airstrips with your money, they have got all kinds of things. Such people if they call themselves gurus, you will know that they are not. This is the minimum. But the real test of a real guru is,  I wish I had brought Saundarya Lahiri, a book written by Adi Shankaracharya, that if he is a real guru, he awakens the power in you. He must give you your own power. What is it if I have thousands of powers? What is it to you? Say supposing this light is burning very nicely, alright, what is it to this light which is not burning? If it can burn this a little bit also then we can say it has some light in it. So if he doesn’t give you your powers he cannot be a guru.

He’d be interested that you should get your powers. And if you get your power, which is also described in all the books, is the power of chaitanya, of the Divine vibrations. Christ also has said, “Something passed from my body when somebody touched me.” It should be like that. And if you get that power of understanding of the Kundalini and understanding of others, then you should say that that is a guru. This is the minimum: that he should awaken your Kundalini.

Now we have one guru Gagangan Maharaj (Gagangiri Maharaj): he’s a very nice person and he knows about me. He’s knows ?? so he’s just like what I am. And he never saw me, but he talked about me. And he is the man who has given Realisation to only one person. And now he’s gone to the hills, he’s sitting down there! He doesn’t want to come back. He has told me he’s had all kinds of abuses, so he says, “Now I’m done. I don’t want them. Let them go there. I will hit them!” I said, “Why are you so angry with them?” Because they take time to give Realisation. They are not Mataji. So they take time. Poor thing, you know: he looked after one single soul for twenty-five years. One single soul, and now after that! He gave him Realisation, no doubt, and he put him on better position. He thought he had cleansed him and all that, then he said now you go in the world and preach. So the preacher came in him. But still he was not yet to be done – in twenty five years time. He started smoking, then he took to women then he took to money. In Sanskrit it is saying: “Kanchan and kanta”.(काञ्चन कान्ता) ‘Kanchan’ means gold and ‘kanta’ means ‘a woman’. So When I talked to him, “What has happened about Anna Maharaj” He told me abuses he said, “Let him go to hell! Useless fellow! Don’t take his name before me Mataji. It doesn’t behove your tongue to take such a silly name!” I said, “What happened?” He said, “He’s gone with kanchan and kanta! He’s a useless fellow!” He denounced him and he said you had better not see him at all, his black face: “You don’t see his black face!” Like that. He was very angry.

But one day you see this Anna Maharaj, in Bombay, came to a disciple of mine. And she wrote me: “Mother he is coming to see me. Would you like to come and see him?” I said, “I must see him now because he was so angry!” So I went to see this one single soul who’s this twenty-five years, poor this guru has given a Realisation to, and now who’s sitting down here. I went and saw this Anna Maharaj: very nicely smoking like this, you see, going on. I was sitting knowing that he knows me who I am. So he touched my feet, alright and he sat down. He said, “Ahh, you went to meet my guru. I am very angry with my guru.” I said, “What’s wrong with your guru?” This is never said! For the guru you would never say like that it’s too arrogant to say. He said, “Why is he coming now to Bombay? He told me I have to come to Bombay to meet Mataji. Why should he come? Why should she come from there?” I said, “Why? Do you feel threatened? You are threatened about it?” You see when he came to Bombay he found out about this fellow what he was doing there so he was very angry with his guru, that his guru was finding out everything!

He said, “No, I think he’d better stay there!” And then I saw his Agnya chakra completely caught up, absolutely. Now his Realisation also going down. Then what happened I told him, “I am going just now but I will give you a tika. Still it’s up to you, I will put my finger on your this thing (Agyna), and I will go away.” So I put some kumkum and I put it on his forehead. And then I said, “Now you put some onto mine.”

As soon as he put onto my Agnya I sucked it in, his finger, you see. And he started, jag, jag, jag, jag, jag, shaking like that. You see, he started shaking. He said, “What are you doing? Are you going to break my finger or what? What are you doing?” And I must say! And you will be surprised, then I told him that, “This is what has happened to your Agnya. I won’t leave until you promise that you are not going to say a word against your guru, and you give up all this nonsense!” So this is what is the thing.

But there is something about Sahaj Yog that it works so spontaneously. So you don’t have to worry. You get your Realisation, then I will tell you all the decoding, everything hundred percent complete knowledge. Alright? And that too, absolutely free, full of love.

Shri Mataji: Hmmm. How are you?

Young Girl: Fine thank you.

Shri Mataji: Good!

Woman: Sometimes we give money in exchange for things.

Shri Mataji: yes, you see…that’s why

Yogi: Yes but what has it got to do with here and now? Why are you bringing the subject up of money?


Shri Mataji: Alright, correct. It is a waste of time, I tell you. You see if you think that money giving is a symbolic thing it is not. It is more ego satisfaction. Because you have brought the point up I must tell you.

We think we can purchase even God and they are playing on that. You see, you feel satisfied, you have paid for it. It is a kind of an ego satisfaction: we have paid for God also. It is not that simple my child. The symbol of love is much deeper. With money you cannot solve. That is what you are doing with your children also: you give your children very expensive toys to play with, but not your heart. Your heart should be ?? . If you have any symbol that’s your heart, your feelings, not the money. By money you make it very gross.

What he’s saying is this: that at this time if you start (asking questions) you see, people’s attention will go away, they are concentrated now. That’s why he doesn’t want you to disturb them. But that’s very perfect, that money-orientation itself is a wrong thing. Money has got all these problems. Women here think of money, men think of money, that’s why the problem is there. If you could forget about money for a short time, at least with me, would be a good idea.

If you bring that money over here then you are going to spoil the whole stuff, because it is very insulting, very insulting. And you cannot purchase the love of your Mother with money. You know Christ was sold for thirty rupees. Do you know that? Are you going to purchase me also and then sell me on? It can be very subtle. People do such crimes for money. That is one of the very subtle possessions of human beings, believe me. Once I say that, “Alright, if you give me money I will take the money.” Immediately your ego will be satisfied. I cannot give you Realisation then. Not by satisfying your ego, but your wisdom only I can give you Realisation. By satisfying your heart only, I can give you Realisation. You people have so much money here, much more than Indians have. But there’s no satisfaction in that. That’s why money is not a good thing.

Anybody who takes somebody’s money: I’ll tell you one thing you take just a juxtaposition say to understand. If I give you some money, say I tell you I will give you £5. Will you take it? Will you take it any one of you? Will you? Free, will you take it? Anyone of you who is agreeable to take £5 free from me, free, with the knowledge of everybody else, raise your hands. Then why should I take money? Why would you not take? Because it is your self-respect that you shoul not take it. Only the parasites will accept it. Only the beggars will accept it. You make a person a beggar by giving money to that person and your ego is satisfied.

I am not a beggar, I am a Queen. Will you go and give some money to your Queen? Let me see who is going to do that. Do you give any money to your Queen? To her also if you have to give, you will have to give big diamonds.

You have to give your heart to me, heart to me.

This is a very wrong idea. That’s what it is here. You sent somebody to you. It’s very, very, you know, something you do not understand. It’s subtlety working out in this money-oriented society.

For example, Father and Mother once you are eighteen years you are on the dole, finished! Accepted parasite. This is a parasitic habit itself, that young people should take a dole. Why should you take a dole? Alright, then you leave your parents and you just send them “Happy Christmas”. An expensive card if you send, it is greater. Finished! When the father dies there is nobody next to the father to look after him. Look at this man who is sitting here, he has an old father who lives with him. His brother is looking after him, his brother is living with him. His grandfather will be living with him, his great grandfather will be living with him. That is his responsibilities in old age. These children will be living with you here. Cheap people, you think they are cheap. They give them toys, very expensive! We don’t give our children. We don’t spoil them. Whatever they want they give them. We do not do that. Of course, we give them sufficient but we do not spoil them. Whatever we can afford we give them. But what we give them is complete love and complete dedication and complete service and complete oneness. They have every right on you. For example my keys can be handled by my grandchildren or by my children, no problem. They can take away whatever they like, they can do. Whatever sari they want they can wear. I said, “Whatever they want they can take.” They have a right and they do it, and very happy to do it. But this society is so money-oriented just like ego, that you cannot see something beyond money that’s the point.

Like you see when my grandchildren are coming so my husband said, when he tells me, “I’m too upset.” I said, “Why? I am so overjoyed.” He said, “Because their house will be spoiled. It is very beautifully done.” Just look at that! For us our grandchildren are coming, so we are dreaming, morning, evening, “They are going to come, oh God what we are going to have our food?” And they are also thinking that, “We are going to meet our grandparents what they are going to do!” Nothing, just meeting each other!

Here nobody meets you know. When they meet they do not talk! I have seen even children: they will buy those comics and all will be reading together, and they are spending the day together or they’ll go and see a picture. When we want to meet someone we must have 2 or 3 hours free let us talk, nicely now let us talk and we have rapport, sharing.

We think by giving money we reciprocate, you cannot. Even a small thing which you think is something special is so joy giving and so loving.

We have a story about Rama: once when he went into exile he was passing through a forest and there was an old lady and she was belonging to the aboriginal class; absolutely old and she heard that Rama was coming. That time the people were much more sensitive, much, much more sensitive than they are today, because they were not that materialistic, you see. And she was so happy. She went round telling all over. And she told to all the trees, to all the creepers, and all of them, all the flowers that, “Oh Rama is coming, be happy! Rama is coming.” And she started thinking, “What should I give to my Ram?”  So she decided on giving something to eat, to solve where to get that beautiful thing which I can give to Rama.

So in those days there was this berry, we call them ber in India. But that’s a different type, you don’t get them here. They were the fruits that were available at that time. So she went and plucked all these. And then she sat down and tasted them, by putting her teeth very slowly into them…

(end of recording)