Talk to Sahaja Yogis, Dharma

London (England)


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H. H. S H R I   M A T A J I   N I R M A L A   D E V I

 Dharma

 Talk to Sahaja Yogis

 London (UK), October 5th, 1978


That, the central one is the sustaining power means is the power by which we evolve, that means we get our sustenance as it is.

This sustenance that we have got as a human being when it is to be manifested on the five elements that we have within ourselves, the source is there but we have to reach it through its different elements.

When this interchange takes place or, we can say, when we have to put this force outside, that is to be done through establishment of Dharma on these. Like a superimposition or, you can say, the connection.

Like you can say, say there is sun. Sun is the source of light and the source of light has (to?) come to this earth which is created out of the five elements. So the sun’s rays have to come, but when they come inside, in this move, what do they do? They enlighten this world. But it’s only possible if there is Dharma, means the light is there, the rays are there.

The rays can be obstructed by many things. If the rays are obstructed, then there is a-dharma.

So the source of Dharma, the spreading of Dharma and ultimately the manifestation onto the five elements is a complete thing that is Void.

This play goes on within us. Our evolutionary power which has worked from the very beginning, from matter state, when the matter got itself as organized then we had carbon as tetravalent, then from carbon, the life started – all this is the work of the sustaining force.

Then we became human beings.

Now we have got ten dharmas within us which we have to keep alright. These are the main ten commandments. These ten commandments we have to look after.

And these are looked after by the people who are the primordial masters, as you call them “incarnations”…(a noise covers the voice) like Raja Janaka, like Moses, like Socrates, like Nanaka, the last one was the Shirdi Sai Nath.

This is the principle is there, is the primordial master. Now, there is another principle that is in there by which you receive it. This is called as the disciple principle, the primordial disciple principle, represented by the moon and the sun, presided by Buddha and Mahavira.

So, this disciple element if it is not in you, you cannot receive it. But when you start getting – receiving it, this Dharma gets into you and then you become the guru. You become the guru when this is completely sustained in you.

It starts as a disciple and then ends up as a Guru.

This is the Void part within us.

First of all, as the human beings are, we do not observe the first ten basic principles.

In this country for example, or in the West, we have – we observe the five of them because of laws. In the countries like India, they observe the rest five, because of their society. So in any way we are lacking some of them. Five are missing here or five are missing there. This is the situation of the Dharma today.

The Gurus and their disciples they do this connection and then the matter, which is created out of five elements, get vibrated. You can enlighten the matter. When the Dharma is complete you can enlighten the matter.

The rituals that these people used which was called as you see, do Dharmik rituals, they call them do dharmik, these are the deeds of Dharma, is to worship, to do Puja and to pray to God and to do all these things, prayer.

All these things after some time became absolutely deadened because there was no realized soul as a Guru and no realized soul as a disciple. So it was just a joke going on, you see. It has no meaning. Supposing I tell somebody who is not realized to give himself a bandhan, he cannot.

[Aside: “He is coming back, don’t you worry! Both of them have run away. He’ll agree then somehow. The sister is realized, the wife is realized. Born. But the husband is like that, what to do? He came…

Yogi: He came.

Shri Mataji: Eh? He came in. (Yogis: “Came”.) Came, ran away half-way, he still cannot decide which way to go.

(A yogi says something)

Shri Mataji: He is alright. Should be alright.

Yogi: I’m wondering where he’s gone.

Shri Mataji: I beg your pardon?

Yogi: I would like to know whether he’ll come. (Indistinct words)

Shri Mataji (laughs): So you will see gradually how it works.]

So this Void is so important because that is how you establish your receiving ends in your being, the five elements within you. Meaning the five elements that exist (within you? – Not clearly audible).

In Sahaja Yoga, we try the other way round stuff. Yes, I have tried it this (way?).

Now, what to do? The Dharma is all ruined. It is. There is another way: all these elements are represented in your chakras, different chakras. So why not take the Kundalini through these chakras and enlighten the elements themselves? Even there is no Dharma in a person you can do it. But then the Kundalini goes back to all the places which you have missed.

But if you have been to some guru and you have bent your head before him, then the Kundalini stops at that Void. It doesn’t move, it goes here, and there, and there. It just stops, it doesn’t go further, it’s very difficult.

You have seen the Void pulsating so badly. It just doesn’t rise, it always goes back into that bottomless pit as you can call it.

It’s always sucked into that again and again if you have had a guru. So we try to remove the guru from your mind by so many ways.

Deny them completely, absolutely, so that they get out of your minds. And again raise the Kundalini, and from the innermost, the Brahma Nadi as they call it, the innermost Nadi, the Sukshma Nadi.

Otherwise, you cannot reach there.

From outside you go on cleansing, cleansing, cleansing until you reach there, you find you cannot pierce through.

But outside cleaning helps you in one way, that the Brahma Nadi becomes wider, the Nadi that is in the center of Sushumna. If you – there’s less pressure then it is a wider one so for Kundalini rising there is a better chance.

But in Sahaja Yoga, the subtlest of subtlest Kundalini we catch, and thread it microscopically inside, and take it out.

And by taking it out what happens, these chakras definitely get enlightened, they expand. That’s how we expand the Sushumna. Expanding Brahmanadi.

This was – this is the trick of Sahaja Yoga.

Because this cleansing is going to take too much time as you said. The whole thing is to be cleansed out and then it is to be released and then you have to meet some guru who has to take it.

So the Sadhachar [virtue, correct action], whatever Buddha has said, the right, the right action, the right that he has said it, is the one that is Dharma.

That’s what is described.

But that doesn’t work out with human beings, it’s meant for people who are realized souls.

Most of these religions are meant for realized souls, you can find out. Actually realized souls only took to religion before. Those who were born again, Dwijah, Brahmins, who took to religion.

But the time has come for people who are not realized also to take to religion and to receive His blessings.

Sahaja Yoga is the only way one can do it – is to take it in the subtle-most – innermost Nadi, enlightened every chakra, increase the size of the chakra, pierce a little bit here, then again raise the another thread, then again the third thread, like that, go on expanding.

[Aside: “This is it, you are alright. Good. Good, that’s it…”]

This is how it works out. In her case I did the same, I was just talking to you.

Now the main thing about Void one has to remember: there is no rationality. It’s the hunger inside the stomach, and hunger has no rationality: if it is hungry it will eat. It has to eat, no rationality can satisfy it: if you are hungry you are a bhakta (seeker). And when you have spiritual hunger, the same hunger becomes subtler and subtler, ultimately it becomes a spiritual hunger.

First, the hunger starts of, say, food, of primitive things. Then hunger for sex life, hunger for women, hunger for men, then for power, then for money. Then the hunger for spirituality starts.

When that hunger is concentrated and starts rising without any rationality about it: you don’t know why you are seeking.

Like Buddha: he had everything, he had a wife and his father had provided him with everything. Still, his heart was seeking. Why was he seeking? It’s the hunger that is not rationality, that isn’t explained.

And then this hunger starts and the way we quench that hunger is Dharma. The way we keep it intact is the Dharma. Supposing you are hungry: you go and eat some poison: then it is a-dharma. I know you are hungry, but you have to eat proper food.

The knowledge about that is Dharma: what food you must eat, what books you must read, what people you must meet, how you should live, what should be your attitude towards others, others’ things, others’ wives, children, daughters. Everything related to the other, all that knowledge is Dharma. But it has no rationality.

Like, you see, a man ran away, say, with somebody’s daughter, he would say: «What’s wrong?» I cannot answer it. I cannot answer it.

If a man has bad relations, say, with his own mother. He says: «What’s wrong in this?». You cannot answer, there’s no rationality. It is so, it’s a fact: «Thou shall not commit adultery.»

Christ has said even to have adulterous eyes is wrong. But at the time, it was Christ who came in. At the Moses’ time people did not know this eyes business, but Christ could see that and He had said it, that: «Those who have even adulterous eyes are committing a sin.»

So, how to deal with the others?

Say, materialism now: we are so attached to matter, is also problem of the Nabhi.

Materialism is a false identification with matter, all falsehood – with matter, with human beings, with books, with all that is created, is the problem of Nabhi, so you can understand how important is Nabhi.

And the one that prescribes it, is the Dharma, is the Guru. They did not come like Me to convince you and argue out with you. They said: «Thou shalt not…». That’s a commandment. Commandment means there’s not to reason why. It’s a commandment.

There’s no rationality in Dharma. Now, the one who is dharmic does not think about sin at all.

Now, I’ll tell you about Myself. Say, I go to a party and they start a cabaret dance. I do not think about it whether it is illegal or whether it is wrong with this adharma, nothing. I do not think, but immediately I vomit.

My grand-children, you see, they one day were watching the TV and three of them came vomiting. I went and saw the TV and it was a horrid thing going on. They just came and started vomiting. There’s no rationality about it: it is against human sustenance. It is sub-human.

Like animals cannot feel the dirt or filth, we can. We feel horrible smell coming. But those who work, say, in filth cannot feel any smell.

If you go near a factory where sugar is produced you feel terrible there, get the smell of these molasses and you can’t bear it, but those who are working there are so much used to it that they cannot feel it.

Those who live in sin cannot feel the sin after some time, they become insensitive to it.

But sin is a sin.

So the insensitivity when we develop within ourselves we become adharmic. When we are sensitive about it, we are dharmic.

On the left-hand side, the intuition about it, the auspiciousness of it – is the thing that one has to learn, the auspiciousness.

A housewife is to be respected, honoured and comforted because it is auspicious.

A wife has to be respectable. A housewife doesn’t – It doesn’t look nice for a housewife, you see, to be dressed in a funny way.

Once a chief cabinet secretary from India, his wife had come and she used to think she is very young and smart or something. She was wearing those tight jeans and things like that, you see. And the poor husband, you see, looked at this side, that side. He didn’t know what to do.

And she is – I mean, very big man.

Alright. And she came down in London, she was thinking: «Oh, she is a great, smart thing», you know. And they were invited to a dinner – it’s a real thing, you know, real thing that has happened. And when this man was to go from somewhere and she had to go from somewhere else.

So, when he went there, he said: «Where is my wife?» Said: «She hasn’t come right now.» He said: «No, she was to come, she is not like that, she is much smarter than me, she must have arrived.» He looked around, he couldn’t find her. And there was a lady standing, he said: «There’s your secretary has come, she is standing there.» And he didn’t know what to say because she really looked like a secretary and not his wife.

So the housewife has to be dignified and respectable and she is to be respected. It’s the part of that auspiciousness. And the wife, that essence of a wife is the governing…

So you can imagine those women who used to stand for lib and all that and those who tried to sort of say that: «Why should we be respectable if the husband is not if he is carrying on with the other women I should also carry on with the other men.»

You must know that you are withholding that great position in the stomach, on the left-hand side of every human being. And that’s why the left Nabhi catches in England so much; and in America, I think it’s missing already (laughter).

So, that is to ask to, say, to a man you see, who is so developed, and is so, he thinks no ends of himself, you see, and the civilization where work is so important and money is even more important than work is. To him, it’s silly to think that a housewife’s respectability is so important in the play of the universe. Yes, it is.

Where the women become dis-respectable the whole – you see, that’s the breaking point of the society.

There the human beings will start destroying.

That’s the real atomic bomb you have got. But it is so, I cannot rationalize it, it is made like that.

All the Gurus have said: «You should not drink.» Even Moses. Every one of them has said: «You cannot drink», means take any kind of ann alcohol or any things that will take away your awareness, because that is the place of your awareness.

In the sense that whatever goes wrong here spoils your attention, and if your attention is spoiled, your awareness is spoiled.

The attention is in here.

The attention is in the stomach, in the Void.

So, how important is your attention.

Wherever you put your attention, that works out. When you are realized, then your attention is realized. Wherever you put your attention it works like a spade, it works like a sword, it works like a loving hand, it works like a kiss, it works like a comforting heart.

It is an enlightened attention in your stomach.

You see, the mother has the child in the stomach, in the womb, and how it looks after the child, a little baby, how it protects.

All that is there is given to us through our Gurus, our own beings which are our masters, who teach us.

The stomach teaches you, your stomach is your Guru. Amoeba became a human being through the stomach only, through the hunger it had.

If it did not have hunger it would not have evolved. And the hunger teaches you. And when you learn it properly, then you become the Guru yourself of the whole world and the universe.

Void, that’s why is very important, and when you have had bad gurus, you have read horrible books, accepted them as facts and truths, then your Void gets spoiled, your attention gets spoiled. It goes to wrong things.

Attention, when it works through your eyes, can also go to wrong things. Everywhere wherever the attention moves it can do wrong things if it is adharmic.

But as I said there is no rationality about it. Dharma is to be accepted. You cannot rationalize it. To a point, you may try, but how far it harms you, you cannot rationalize.

And then the curses of Divine comes on you.

Any kind of fanaticism or identification with one ideal – like Muslims thinking they are Muslims. They are adharmic. They are not dharmic.

Dharma is that you have to respect all the religions. It is a sin not to respect any incarnation. It is a sin not to respect any religion. And to identify with one and denounce the other. So, give up all these false dharmas and come to that one Dharma which evolves you, which gives you light by which you can see the oneness among all these religions.

As I’ve said it before, that they are like beautiful flowers on one tree nurtured by one sap, adorned by one tree; but fools take the flowers out, say that “These are our flowers” and kill them. And when these flowers die, ugliness becomes the so-called religions.

So, in essences, respect all the religions, and all the incarnations. Fanaticism is absolutely against the Nabhi and against the Void because the whole balance of your Void is to be kept.

In a very subtle and subtler form, you will be sticking onto it. Say, you are born a Christian, so whatever you may try you cannot get out of this feeling that “We are Christians”. You’ll have much more respect for Mary in heart than for, say, Lakshmi.

While you are a Hindu, you will have much more respect for Radha than for Mary. That will be lingering on and lingering on. When you develop that balance alright, then you are dharmic. That balancing has to be done.

So one realization is within you like this. And one realization is this way, among you, and this is Dharma. Among all of you, there has to be another integration, a complete integration of understanding. Whether you are white, black or red, whether a Hindu, Christian or anything, you must know that there is only one way that is the living way of evolution and that there is only one God. And all of them are aspects of the same God, and there is no quarreling among them. Why are you quarreling? This goes against the Void. Complete integration works out in the stomach. And when you are completely integrated, you’ll be surprised, rationality drops out. Automatically it drops out. Rationality keeps disintegration because if your heart says something, rationality says: «No, it’s not right.».

But, if you take out your rationality there and just see for yourself, then wisdom comes in and you just do it whatever is wise and good for your spirituality.

[Aside: “How are you now? It’s better, it’s working out”.]

So, Void we use in Sahaja Yoga in many ways. First of all, we have to, first of all, see the Void of a person, how he has got the Void. You can see it very easily because it might be pulsating. Maybe not be in your presence, I don’t know, but in My presence it does. But immediately you can feel the Void. The Void you feel on here, or on here. Now, just see these are the bases of all the chakras.

You feel the Void here, or here. Basis of all the chakras you can feel, so you can understand how important is Void.

Now, if it is catching here anywhere, or catching over here, you see, then you have to ask the questions about these various points: whether he is a materialist, whether he is a fanatic.

But these questions you cannot ask that directly, because if I say: «Are you a fanatic?», he’ll hit Me hard. [Laughter]

You have to be very, very clever about it.

Now, how to ask a person whether you are a fanatic or not?

Very easy. Say, he is a Muslim.

So, you just ask him to put your hand, saying that: «Should I put some Kumkum on your head?» So his fanaticism will come out immediately: «I can’t do this!» If he is a Christian then you just ask him: «Can you put a Swastika on your hand?» Cross he’ll accept. Swastika: «No, I’m not Hitler!» (Laughter)

That’s how you can make it out whether he is open-minded or not, by suggesting things like this. So then he comes out with his fanaticism.

Then what do you do? You do not condemn him as fanatic, no. That won’t be Sahaja style.

You say: «Alright, alright I’ve got it. The cross, will that be alright? Alright, take the cross. Now, if I say that cross was first Swastika then it became cross, will you be angry?»

Gradually it will work out.

But if he is a fanatic you go outside and tell Mohammad Sahib to beat him nicely. So He’ll do the job. Shoebeating is very necessary for all the fanatics. Nice shoebeating. But fanatics are one of the most difficult.

Then those who have been to other gurus also will be showing up. These days you don’t get fanatics so many who’d come to Sahaja Yoga. Mostly they are guru-bitten (Shri Mataji laughs). You see, there are frostbitten people, there are guru-bitten also (She laughs). I mean, you see, mostly they are guru-bitten.

Then you ask them: «Have you been to a guru? What your guru has done? This, that.» If you tell them sometimes they can be fanatically attached to their gurus. Then they might be angry. They do it, but what to do? You see sometimes you have to tell them.

[A ring bells – apart:

Shri Mataji: It’s the food?

Yogi: Yes.

Yogi: Yes, Shri Mataji.

Shri Mataji: It’s good they are looking after the food very nicely. (Laughter) Otherwise, if you have to cook also, then all your attention is there. So, much better than your ashram. (Laughter)

Yogi: Agreed!

Shri Mataji: No headache, nothing, you are having a nice time here and their food is ready, now serve, come along, have your food. Much better than your ashram. So, the right time, we are talking about Void. (Laughter) Alright. I’ll sit here –

(Yogi speaks: “All our hunger has been satisfied today.” Shri Mataji laughs)

Shri Mataji: Yes, make the food also dharmic and then eat it. Good. How are you now? Better?

Yogini: Yes!

Shri Mataji: Yes! This will do good to many because so many have had this problem with guru business. How are you now? It’s good…]

[Tape interruption]

It’s such a wide subject that I cannot cover it in one lecture, you’ll require many more; but the most important thing about Void is that that once you are enlightened, you become dharmic yourself. The Dharma starts flowing through your hand. These vibrations have a capacity to establish Dharma.

So, when you put your hands now towards the five elements, say you put your hands towards the water, or you put your hand in the water – the water gets enlighted, vibrated. Then if somebody takes that water, it will establish Dharma into that person.

Supposing somebody is a drunkard, now you put this vibrated water to him, give him to drink. He’ll feel nauseated after drinks. He’ll throw away the drinks, then he will stop.

Some of you have noticed that when you came to Me first you felt a terrible nausea within you and you felt like vomiting, sometimes you felt uneasy, you see.

So these vibrations through the water now pass into your stomach and they establish Dharma there, the proper relationship.

It so happens that if you go on taking this water, the right-side is that physically you feel alright, and the water can give you such a power that you will never get cancer of the stomach, never get any trouble with the stomach.

But left-side side it has greater power, this water, that it cleanses you – your sins – and puts your attention, fixes it up on Dharma.

So, your attention doesn’t do – you are not tempted, that’s how you have seen people who come to Sahaja Yoga can give up drinks easily. Because it turns your attention towards Dharma.

Then if you want to take drinks you just don’t  feel like after some time.

You feel like vomiting, you feel like headache, and all that. And it happens so easily. Now we know somebody’s reaction – he gave up with all his drinking in no time.

Otherwise, it’s not possible to do it, but because of this happening in the stomach, now you cannot drink.

Just imagine.

This is the great thing about Void is that once you are enlightened you can give something to the nature. You have been drawing everything from nature so far. First time now you start giving something to the nature.

And what you give to the nature is so nourishing to it also. Supposing you give vibrations to, say, fruits, or to trees, or to flowers. You will find they will be ten times more, the growth will be much more, they will be lustrous. And they will be very juicy, very tasty and the whole atmosphere will be different.

Maybe after some time these trees, if they will be standing there, anybody will be passing that way, if he touches the tree they will get the vibrations also from there.

So maybe a tree may become a curer, something like that. All those waters and all that, we talk of «curing water», are nothing but vibrated waters. They are vibrated. So, if the vibrated water goes inside, you get cured.

So, this is on the left-hand side it works, that it establishes your religion within you. All the problems you have had is all completely cleansed out by that.

In the same way, if you enlighten a light – now here [Mother turns to the flame of the candle] you have seen so many times just here, what you can enlighten a light is.

So it starts going, see, both are there but this one is working as if… It’s actually also going vertically, but this and this you have taking out the black.

It is because it is enlightened. That is also enlightened, no? So it may also take out.

But this one actually in the hand is taking away the…

If you see these lights you can feel they are like pulled out like this.

As if, you see, the realized lights are pulled out like this, straight.

And, I’ve been to some of these churches where they have these lights, and as soon as I enter inside they all go “kakakakakak”. (Shri Mataji laughs)

It is interesting to see how they start suddenly glowing like that. But people do not notice it because they do not understand how, why it has happened, but you can understand that. So, if you put the light, enlightened light –

Say, yesterday – the other day we had that Havana, is the enlightened light. Havana we had made it enlightened, Jagrut. Then whatever we put into it, you see, our badhas and everything, it burned whatever we wanted to burn away.

What is the beauty of fire is that, say, if you have some mixed-up gold and you put it to fire, you will find the gold will be separated and the filth or dirt or whatever is inside it will be separated.

So, this quality, which is the right-hand side quality of the fire is, becomes in the left-hand side is that when you go near such a fire, or you use such a fire or a light, then what happens that whatever is unwanted in you is burned away, and you get the pure thing.

So it purifies. Fire is a purifier and it is a melter, it melts your heart.

This fire melts your heart and you feel the compassion. So that’s how every element can be enlightened, and this is the work done in the Void by your Kundalini.

Kundalini goes to various places and She enlightens all these elements in your stomach.

In the stomach, the basic principle is of water. The Void is covered with water, and in the water there is salt, and the salt is nothing but is the Dharma. Is the Dharma, the salt.

That’s why when we give you salt what happens – the salt that is vibrated goes and helps you in the stomach. And salt shows its own nature there by absorbing all that is in you which is, we can say, is mobile there.

A person supposing is, has got a cancer problem, then he should take salt. If he has a right-hand side problem, he should, she should just take sugar. So these are the two qualities, you see, the five of dharmas are done by salt and five by sugar. And these are the best solvents in the water, as you know.

So, all these three things put together: water, then salt, then the sugar, they solve the problem of the Void. That’s why we use these two things.

If you remember Christ has said that “you are the salt”. That means you are the Gurus. Salt is the Guru. That’s why he said: «You are the salt.» Because you are the Gurus. And salt dissolves into water. Water is the Dharma. They are the absorbers – (a noise covers some words… probably “salt”) always has a water of crystallization. They, it cannot exist without, the salt cannot exist without water. So, the water and salt put together means ocean.

So Void is the ocean within us. That’s why it is called as Sagara.

That means all the oceans of the world are in our stomach. And if you want to hear them sometimes, you can put your thumb in my ears and you can hear it coming (as a sound? Indistinct), you can hear it.

So this is all the time this ocean is churned and out of it comes out all that is good, and whatever is bad is burnt away, or washed away, or made to – with the air – it is made to be swept off.

So the air element is also there, air element that we see all around. [Recording cut] … so the vibrated air is a very important thing and it helps a lot.

[Recording cut]

So I’ve talked to you about all the four, but the fifth one is Akasha, it’s the ether, you can say. That works out when you are a realized soul.

Then you, you also vibrate the Ether. That’s how our main collective work is done, through the Ether, you see.

Now, supposing I want that you should get a proper seat – “Whether you are going or something, alright, take a seat, alright” – anything materialistic you can say, or My chair how do you down there, how will this… I have to just worry about it, immediately [Shri Mataji snaps Her fingers] the orders are sent, alright?

So, Saint Michael and Saint Gabriel, both of them say: «Now what should we do? We must find a proper place.» So, they take Don into consideration, [Shri Mataji points to a yogi in the audience who has just arrived and miraculously got a good seat through Shri Mataji’s direction] then they bring him down here and find out a nice place for him. Is all done through Ether.

Ether, it becomes – when it is enlightened, you see, then it communicates the ideas, the things which are Divine or the desires, the Divine desires are carried out. And then you are placed into his hands, sometimes you are surprised: «How am I here? How are you here? How do I meet you? I mean, I was not to come this side and then now how did I come?» All these things can be done through the Ether which…

Even we get our television and everything through Ether. But on the television, if the Ether, if you, if you, say, enlighten it, then it will so happen, that a bad [spread?] program won’t materialize. It won’t materialize. It can work very dynamically.

You cannot imagine how these miracles take place. And real miracles are felt, you know of course we do feel the miracles of all the other elements, but it’s not so obvious as that of the Ether because you are suddenly surprised: «How this? Why?» And it’s – everybody is surprised at it, all here in in the plate you get all this. So, this is done by Ether and it is so miraculous. It is so miraculous, that it is hard to believe that it is possible.

Now, this Ether works day-time and night-time. It doesn’t take rest anywhere. It’s all the time up for us, means it is all the time ready to work out the divine work. All the time it is ready to work out the divine work. It doesn’t wait. It doesn’t wait for anyone to give orders or anything; it’s just, just waiting there. As soon as it sees that this is desired, alright, nothing is to be told, just to desire and you say that: «Oh, what will be happening to such and such person?» Finished, it’s done. It has been transmitted.

The same Ether that transmits the – what you call? – the air transmissions which you receive on the radios, radio transmissions. The same one, when enlightened, does all this job. He works it out, everything. Everything that you want it works it out. And there’s how the angels show their… [Shri Mataji searches the word in Marathi] their miraculous feats. But it is worth noticing all that and watching it, and witnessing it and noting it down: «Oh, how it helped and how it worked out!»

And it also Ether when enlightened brings people closer to Divine power. It arranges and organizes.

But now, one would ask what is the necessity for God to have such complicated methods of “enlightening the matter”? Why not it has already the enlightened matter? It’s the question one should ask, I mean, I’m asking as you people are there, so I’m asking you. Let’s see the answer.

[Recording interrupted. Continuing of the recording is a conversation about personal matters:

That’s your problem. Yesterday I told you to say that “I’m not guilty”. It’s just a joke you are enjoying, you are just playing games with yourself when you say that. Because you like to play such terrible jokes with yourself.

Don’t say that you are guilty.

At all.

By saying that, you see, you are trying to enjoy a sort of a sadism against yourself. You are against yourself. Self that is your Spirit.

The yogi: That’s what it feels like, it feels like… (Indistinct words)

Shri Mataji: That’s not a good thing. That’s not what is wanted, is not what is desired, so just don’t play on them. Whatever are your moods are not correct. They should not be there.

By your moods, you are lost. Sometimes you get this mood, sometimes you get another mood of aggression. Whether is a temper or something like that. And sometimes you get into this kind of an apologetic mood.

Both are useless, absolutely useless.

Just throw them away. Why should we do it? Both are mythical. – (The yogi speaks) – Yes, this positivity also – this so-called positivity means aggression on others, you start showing your aggression on others. You can aggress others also. That’s even worse. – (The yogi speaks) – That’s, that’s, that’s, that’s the thing I was saying.

Be joyous, be happy for what God has given you. Watch the birds in the morning time. See the flowers in the morning time. What do they have? They are standing in the sun, in the rain, they are facing the nature all the time. Imagine the delicate petals of the flowers. Do they show any signs of negativity or of aggression? They only emit fragrance. Till they live they will emit fragrance. When they will die, they are not bothered. Aggressive person cannot come to Sahaja Yoga, he cannot go very far.

Neither a negative person, but aggressive cannot. He’ll drop out.

Sahaja Yoga recedes from such people.

You have to be humble, but you are not to be slaves. In extremes at least one should know the difference between the two. You see, there is extremes, say something is very black – then you can see the white very clearly against it, isn’t it?

And when you know how to move from one extreme to another extremes, you should be able to see both the things very clearly. And that’s how you come to the center.

I mean, it is for your own good to be like that.

You may say: “Yes, we understand, Mother, but we can’t do it”. Could try. You just watch yourself and see how it works, how your mind is working: it’s your horse and you have to master it. You are supposed to be a rider and the horse is taking you somewhere wherever it feels like, either to negativity or to the positivity so-called – means the aggressiveness.

It’s the horse that is leading you, not you are leading the horse. What kind of a rider it is?

And the horse is like a pendulum and you are led by it. And when you identify yourself with that horse you think: “What to do? It is happening.” You can control it.

You have to tell yourself, that is to tell your mind to behave itself. Otherwise, you people cannot go very deep into Sahaja Yoga.

You have to go much deeper. If you are worried about superficialities you cannot go deeper.

Deep down is the Truth.

There lies all the joy. All the trees, all the big trees have their roots deep down.

Find out your roots: where are they? They are all embedded in your heart and in your Spirit, not in these superficial things where your mind is moving with the wind, here and there, just like a dead leaf.

If a big train arrives, and the train is faced, say – with a – some sort of an obstacle, it cannot stop. But if there’s a little worm and if it wants to save itself from the train it can. It can hide itself away somewhere. You are not a worm. You are a human being. A little living thing can do that much. You are a human being and if you cannot stop yourself from your destruction, then who can stop you? You see the nature: people live together. Tiger lives in a forest and there are many creatures who exist, too.

But if human beings cannot save themselves with all the brain that they have, their dynamic styles you see, with all the energy that they have, with all the discoveries that they have made, then who is going to save mankind?

Either you aggress on others or you kill yourself: and then what should Mataji do? Or what should anyone do under these circumstances – but to make you face it?

In Sahaja Yoga, you can face it very clearly.

You can see others doing it also, but first, you must see it in yourself.

Unless and until you see it in yourself what you are doing to yourself, you cannot see in others.

When I say “you see it in yourself” you become self-centered. I mean, anything You say can be twisted. When I say “you see it in yourself”, that means you detach yourself and see in yourself: what is your mind doing?

That’s how you can love others also that they are doing the same.

Like a person, say, is fond of good food all the time. If he can see that he is hankering after good food all the time, he is thinking about good food, his mind is working like that – if he can see that he can correct it also.

If he can see it.

Apart from that, when he sees somebody doing it, he would not hate that person, but he would help him to cure.

On the contrary, I have seen those who are like that, hate the other person, make fun of the other person, while they have the same weakness.

Why, why it happens? There’s a, there’s a psychological reason. Because that point which is doing like this, wrong in him – you hate that point in you, subconsciously, and that’s what you hate in others; but that is consciously.

If you hate that part in you consciously, there wouldn’t be any problem. That part which is negative, the part that is telling you all these things, the part that misleads you, the part that spoils you, the part that covers the Self – you see – in you, if you could manage to see that and say: “No, not that part, no.” But then you start despising the rule (unclear word).

It’s a very subtle thing: either you move from this side to that side. If I try to push you, you’ll just go like a spring to the other end. If I try to push on that side like a spring you go to the other end. Thing is, the basic thing is the extremes are to be avoided.

This is the basic point is: extremes to be avoided.

If you feel you are getting negative, take your shoe and beat yourself nicely. Go out and shout or take a pillow and hit it hard, alright?

But if you are negative inside, what you will do you will go and beat your wife or beat your husband, whatever may be the case.

It’s a very simple thing for a Sahaja Yogi to do, is to be amused about yourself.

Just be amused: “Look at this Mr. So and So, now it’s me.” When you start seeing yourself like that, you see, be amused at yourself.

“Ah, so now, Mr. So and So is coming up like this! Oh, come along, come along, now the vanity, come along! I would like to see the vanity that I am. See Mr. Ego coming up. Now, here Mr. Ego stands.” (Laughter)

Then (Shri Mataji laughs) you will start seeing.

Be amused about it in the real sense, and you will be surprised that these things will drop out.

Yogi (not clearly audible): You know this, I mean when You observe something, and You say what You observed…. (rest is indistinct).

Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, of course, very much so. Yes.

Yogi: You’ll say that…

Shri Mataji: Yes.

Yogi: But we – but we’ll still not correct it. What’s wrong?

Shri Mataji: No, you should say: “Get away, you take two running jumps and go away”.

That will help Me. If you want to have phraseologies, I can tell you, but I think you are much more equipped in English language with all the beautiful humour that have – you have.

Just play that on yourself, you see. Humour is a beautiful thing that you can really play on yourself, instead of playing these melancholy songs (laughter) and foolishly indulging into all this romantic nonsense. (Laughter)

Better play some humour on yourself, sit down, (with a deep sense of humour? – Not clear) and enjoy the humour upon yourself.

It works wonders, you see. And those who know how to laugh at themselves are the best people.

[Tape cut]

All that was foolish is chiselled out and you see the beautiful joy-giving Spirit manifesting itself beautifully within you alone.

And all your worries, all your problems and all negativity and so-called aggressiveness and everything just disappears and you are one with that.

And you are seeing through (all?) that, the brilliance that it is giving. You are seeing through and feeling the dignity of that and the joy of it, the brilliance it is giving.

Just think, if you are the sun and you come. And you see the sun coming, the rays coming and working it out and curing and changing the colours and giving life. Imagine, how dignified you feel and how beautiful you feel. But you don’t feel vain about it.

If you are that you just don’t feel that there’s something special about it. You just see it. Vanity comes when you don’t have something. When you have it, you say: “It’s alright, it’s me”. It’s just flowing. It’s just watching how it’s beautifully it is flowing.

Because of scientific research in the psychological sphere, this myth has come to us that if we try to enjoy something like that then you’ll become proud. So you just don’t enjoy.

I mean the subtotal of the whole thing is – psychologists – is this that you don’t enjoy anything in life. It’s the subtotal it comes to (She laughs). If it is not worked with a Realized soul, with the compassion and love and proper understanding, it amounts to that. That you just don’t enjoy anything in life.

You analyze everything: this way you are bad, that way you are bad. This way you are wrong, that way you are wrong. So you are wrong completely, you should be finished: you are good for nothing, useless, thrown away. End up in the lunatic asylums or in some other wretched place, which is not meant for human habitation at all. Idiotic it is, I must say. Stupid it is!

It is like a – we call it in Marathi Dhoopatne, is the thing we use for burning the incense, you see. It is hollow on this side and hollow on the other side also because one side is the stand and the another side is where you put the incense.

So you take that Dhoopatna, and you ask for something, you see.

So something is given on this cup, you turn it round for the other side.

So, the other side you can see it, but see this side that is filled in it’s gone, so you go to see, you want to see the other side now, that what is left in the other one, it’s nothing is left altogether, it’s finished.

So it is said that: ‘Hati Dhoopatne dene’ means this dhupatne is the thing is given to you in the hand.

So first you see this side, you try to fill the joy in the cup, alright?

Then you turn it around to fill the other side of it.

But this side you receive it and the other side is the support. So you need not go to the right, then to the left.

By the time you go to the left, the right is over, and the right side you run up to, the left is over.

Just be in the center!

Push yourself in the center. Just be there. See the silence. Silence of joy crawls in.

[Long silence]

What’s it? What happens? [A yogi was asleep, exchanges on that, “Sleeping!” people laugh]

That’s the best! (A yogini says: “Still sleeping beautifully!”.) Eh? (More laughter and exchanges) That is the best, this… (indistinct words).

Now, any questions?

Yogi: How far should we be concerned with other people, Shri Mataji…

Shri Mataji: What’s it?

Yogi: (Not clearly audible) How far… should we be concerned with other people, I mean, in a situation where are other people there who should now better understand…

Shri Mataji: Yes.

Yogi: … (Unclear audio) And yet you know, you are dependent for them on the stupid ones. (Shri Mataji laughs. The yogi continues speaking but it is not clearly audible)

Shri Mataji: Yes. I would say, you see, Regis, that you have wisdom. All of you have your wisdom. And you tell them in a way that you carry the [boat?] as they say. Because if you tell somebody: “You are stupid.” I mean, he will make hell for Me. You’d better not do that (She laughs).

Alright. Now, if you tell somebody that: “You are very clever” when he is stupid (laughter) if he is really…

Yogi (not clearly audible): When they think, they know that, and then it’s not a stupid.

Shri Mataji: Yes, they will know that, too. Because people here are very clever, you see.

They are stupid in their wisdom. But understanding that – what others are talking and all that, they know very well.

So, best thing is whenever you have to work on them, work on them secretly. Give them a bandhan, give them shoe-beating.

But openly you give them tea. [Laughter. Yogi speaks… Vibrated…]

Vibrated, of course, of course, of course, of course. Keep Mataji’s photograph and a candle there and then invite. Give them tea. Give them some chanas. You see, that’s how you have to work with these people. Because they don’t understand this, they may be clever.

So, give them some Chanas. When they want to have some water, give them vibrated water.

[Audio ends here]