Seminar Day 2, Zen Void

Easthampstead Park Conference Centre, Bracknell (England)

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1978-10-15 Advice To Sahaja Yogis London NITL HD 

Shri Mataji: Don’t blame yourself. That’s your problem. Yesterday I told you to say that I’m not guilty. It’s just a joke you are enjoying, you are just playing guilts with yourself when you say that. Because you like to play such terrible jokes with yourself. Don’t say that you [unclear, are guilty] at all. By saying that, you see, you are trying to enjoy a sort of a selfism against yourself. You are against your Self. Self, that is your Spirit.

Yogi: [unclear, that’s what is goes on…]

Shri Mataji: It’s not a good thing. Is not what is wanted, [unclear, is not that is] desired. So, just don’t play on it. Whatever are your moods are not correct, it should not be there. By your moods, you are lost! Sometimes you get this mood, sometimes you get another mood of aggression. You are in a temper or something like that. And sometimes you get into this kind of absolute [unclear] mood. Both are useless, absolutely useless, just throw them away. Once, you will do it! (after a while) Both are mythical.

Yogi: [unclear]

Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, positivity also – the so-called positivity, means aggression on others. You start showing your aggression on others. You can aggress others, also. That even worse.

Yogi: [unclear] love and happiness…

Shri Mataji: That’s, that’s the thing I was saying. Be joyous, be happy for what God has given you. Watch the birds in the morning time, see the flowers in the morning time, what do they have? They are standing in the sun, in the rain, they are facing the nature all the time. Imagine the delicate petals of the flowers, do they saw any science of negativity? Or of aggression? They only emit fragrance. If they live, they will emit fragrance, if they die, they not bother. Aggressive person, cannot come to Sahaja Yoga! They cannot go very far. Neither a negative person! But aggressive cannot. Will drop out. Sahaja Yoga recedes from such people.

You have to be humble, but you have not to be slaves! In extremes, at least one should know the difference between the two. If there are extremes – say something is very black, then you can see the white very clearly earliest, isn’t it? When you know how to move from one extreme to another extremes, you should be able to see both the things very clearly. And that’s how you come to the centre. Merrill it is for your own good to [unclear, win] anger. You may say – ‘Yes, we understand Mother, but we can’t do it. You can! You just watch yourself and see how it works, how your mind is working. It’s your horse, you have to master it! You are supposed to be a rider, and the horse is taking you somewhere, wherever it feels like. Either to negativity, or go to the positivity – so called – doing the aggressiveness. It is the horse that is leading you, not you are leading the horse. What kind of a rider it is. And the horse is like a pendulum, and you are led by it. Then, when you identify yourself with that horse, you think what you do it is happening. You can control it. You have to tell yourself – that is to tell your mind to behave itself, otherwise you people cannot go very deep into Sahaja Yoga. You have to go much deeper. If you are worried about superficialities, you cannot go deeper. Deep down is the truth, there lays all the joy. All the trees, all living things, have their roots deep down. 

Find out your roots, where are they? They are all imbedded in your heart, in your Spirit. Nothing [unclear, wins] your superficial things, where your mind is moving like a wind here and there just like a died leaf. If a big train is coming, and the train is faced – say with the, some sort of an obstacle, it cannot stop. But if there is a little worm and if it wants to save itself from the train, it can. It can hide itself or something. You are not a worm, you are a human being. A little living thing can do that much. You are a human being, and if you cannot stop yourself from your destruction, then who can stop?

You see the nature, people live together. Tiger lives in a forest and there are many creatures who exist. But if human beings cannot save themselves, with all the brain that they have [unclear], with all the energy that they have, with all the discoveries that they have made, then who is going to save oneself? Either you aggress on others, or you kill yourself. And then what should Mataji do? What should anyone do under these circumstances.

But to [unclear] face it. In Sahaja Yoga, you can face it very clearly. You can see others doing it also. But first you must see it in yourself. Unless and until you see it in yourself, what you are doing to yourself, you cannot see in others. When I say – you see it in yourself, you became self-centred. I mean – anything you say, can be twisted. When I say – you see it in yourself, that means – you detach yourself and see in yourself. What is your mind doing? That’s how you can learn others. Also, that they are doing the same. Like, a person – say, is fond of good food [unclear]. If he can see that he is hankering after good food, all the time he is thinking about food, he’s mind is working like that, if he can see that, he can correct it also – if he can see it.

Apart from that, when he sees somebody doing it, he would not hit that person, but he would help him to cure. On the contrary, I have seen those who are like that hit the other person, make a fan of the other person while they have the same weakness. Why, why it happens? There is a psychology behind it. Because that one which is doing like this wrong in him, you hit that one in you, subconsciously, and that’s what you hate in others. But that is consciously.

If you hate that part in you consciously, there wouldn’t be any problem! That part which is negative, the part that is telling you all those things, the part that misleads you, the part that spoils you, the part that covers the self you see, in you, if you could manage to see that, as [unclear, I know] that part. No. But, then you start despising the whole. It’s a very subtle thing. Either you move from this side to that side, if I try to push you just go like a sprint to the other end. When I try to push on that side like a sprint, you go to the other end. The thing is, the basic thing is that the extremes are to be avoided. This is the basic point – these extremes are to be avoided. If you feel you are getting negative, take a shoe beet yourself nicely. Go out and shout, or take a pillow and hit it hard. [unclear]. But if you are negative inside, what you will do, you will go and beat your wife or beat your husband – whatever may be the case.

It’s a very simple thing all Sahaja Yogi to do, is to be amused about yourself. Just be amused – look at this Mr. so-and-so. Now see. When you start seeing yourself like that, you see, you’ll be amused at yourself. So, now, Mr. so-and-so is coming up like this. Oh, come along, come along – now the vanity, come along, I would like to see the vanity that I am. Seeing Mr. ego coming up, now here Mr. ego stand. Then you start seeing. Be amused about it in the real sense. And you will be surprised that this thing will drop out.

Yogi: [unclear]

Shri Mataji: yes, yes, of course. Very much. Yes.

Yogi: [unclear]

Shri Mataji: Yes. Now you should say – ‘getaway, you get two run-in jumps and go.’ 

That will help. If you want to have [unclear, neologies], I can tell you. But I think you are much more equipped in English language with all the beautiful humour that have – you have. Just play that on yourself. You see, humour is a beautiful thing that you can really play unto yourself. Instead of playing these melancholy sounds and foolishly indulging into all these romantic [unclear]. Better play some humour on yourself, sit down [unclear, edit] some humour and enjoy [unclear, your humour] on yourself!

It works wondrously. And those who know how to laugh at themselves are the best people.

This is what it is, and then when you are meditating, then you will find diamonds sparkling. All that was foolish is chiselled down, and you see that beautiful joy-giving Spirit manifesting itself beautifully when you are alone, in all your worry, in all your problems, and all negativity and all so-called aggressiveness and everything just disappears, and you are one with that, and you are seeing through of that, the brilliance that it is joy, you are seeing through and feeling the dignity of that in the joy of the brilliance that is flow, just think if you are the sun, and you come, and you see the sun coming the rays coming and working it out and curing and changing the colours, and giving life. Imagine! How dignified you feel and how beautiful you feel!

But you don’t feel vain about it. If you are that, you just don’t feel that there is something special about it, you just see it. Vanity comes when you don’t have something. When you have it, you say – ‘it’s alright, it’s me, it’s just flowing, you are just watching it how beautifully it is flowing.

Because of scientific research in the psychological sphere, this myth has come to us that – ‘if we try to enjoy something like that, that you become proud’. So, you just don’t enjoy. I mean the sum total of the whole thing in psychoanalysis that you don’t enjoy anything in life. (-Shri Mataji is laughing and says)- if the sum total, it counts too. If it is not worked with a Realised Soul, with the compassion and love and proper understanding, it amounts to that! That you just don’t enjoy anything in life. You analyse everything this way you are bad, that way you are bad. This way you are wrong, that way you are wrong. So, you are wrong completely. You should be finished, you are good for nothing, useless, thrown away. End up in the lunatic asylums, or in some another [unclear, cheap] place which is not meant for human habitation at all. Idiotic it is, I must say. Stupid! It is like a – we call it in Marathi ‘dhoopatni’ – is a thing we use for burning the incense, you see? It is hollow on this side, and hollow on the other side also, because the one side is the standing, the other side is where you put the incense. So, you take that ‘dhoopatni’ and you ask for something, you see? Something is giving on this cup, you turn it around for the other side. So, the other side face him, but this side, that is filed in, is gone, so you go to see – you want to see the other side now, that what is left in the other one. Nothing is left, all together. It’s finished. 

So it is said that – happy dhoopatni … means, this dhoopatni is that thing, is given to you in your hand. So, first you see this side, you try to feel the joy in the cup. Alright. Then you turn it around to feel the other side of it.

But this side you have to receive it, and the other side is the [unclear]. So, you need not go to the right then to the left. By the time you go to the left, the right is over, and the right side will run up, and the left is over. Just be in the centre! (after a while) Push yourself in the centre, just be there. (after a while) See the silence! The silence of joy crawls in. 

(after a while)

Shri Mataji: What’s it? What happened?

(the yogis are laughing)

Yogis: Sebastian was sleeping.(everybody is laughing)

Shri Mataji: That’s the best! Ha?

Yogini: [unclear, he was breading beautifully}

Shri Mataji: Ha?

Yogini: So [unclear] …

Shri Mataji: That is the best, you see? To sleep off.

Now, any questions?

Yogi: [unclear]

Shri Mataji: What’s it?

Another Yogi is repeating the question: How far should we be concern with other people…

Yogi: …we still… [unclear]… we should have a better understanding …

(Shri Mataji is laughing)

Shri Mataji: Ya, I would say, you see, [unclear, with this] that you have wisdom. All of you have your, wisdom. And you tell them in a way that you carry the cord as they say. Because if you tell somebody – “you are stupid”- I mean he will make hell for you. So, you better not do that. (Shri Mataji is laughing) 

Alright. Now, if you tell somebody that – “you are very clever” when he is stupid, if he is really …

Yogi: [unclear]

Shri Mataji: Yes, they will know that, too. Because people here are very clever! You see! They are stupid in their wisdom, but understanding that what others are talking and all that, they know very well! 

So, the best thing is, whenever you work on them, work on them secretly. Give them a bandhan, give them a shoe-beating, but openly you give them tea.

(Yogis are laughing)

Yogi: … vibrated…

Shri Mataji: … vibrated, of course, of course, of course, of course. Keep Mataji’s photograph and the candle there, and then invite, give the tea, give them some chanas. You see, that’s how you have to work with these people, because they don’t understand these. They may be clever, so, give them some chana. When they want, to have some water, give them vibrated water.

So you work through their stomachs. Now, when they start arguing, avoid arguing very wisely. I think Rutom knows some things, tricks like that. He does that. He avoids talking about things. I’ve seen him, and I do it the most of all, [unclear, I think], I’m very good at getting out of things. When Gavin does it, is to keep quiet. (laughs). That’s, there are ways and methods by which you just nil it through.

Sahaja Yoga methods are very different from normal methods that you [unclear, own]. And these are miraculous methods. The best thing if you want to deal with someone, just live it to Me, and just tell – “Mataji please look after him”. And then you will see the results – how he comes back to normal. You see, many things work out like that, and I told you, the other day we had gone through quarrelling, and there was a big mess created, you see, sort of a – complete opposition to Mataji was created, and one men poor thing fighting for Me and sort of thing. And when we went to the hall, all of them were towards Mataji, absolutely and the fellow was again put on the pedestal and higher of that it was put. Because some newspaper people came asking for his name, for his interview, and all that. And he was amazed that how, how they came? He doesn’t know why they came to take there an interview from him?

So, live it to miracles, as they say – “live it to djinns” (Shri Mataji is laughing), [unclear, especially this willingly invite Me]. (Shri Mataji is laughing, everybody are laughing). You see, this is – living it to djinns – this has worked you see, his meaning itself is, – like these people came and … yesterday for met – you must write all these things in a diary, I think you people should! They went to Weston-super-Mare. And they all wanted to stay in Weston-super-Mare, and there was no place for them, no place. And they did not know what to do? And they went all the way from here, where to go? What to do? They wanted to do camping, I said – no, no. Camping is not allowed for my children. So they went down to Bristol, to a college to meet a Sahaja yogi, and he organised for them, he offered himself – “Mataji, take and come and stay with us. And there was another building just like this, and they very nicely like lords they lived.

So, depend on the miracles and the angels. They are right here. All of them, attending on to you. Just here, all here, and you watch for the miracles. But we should be surrendered. If you are not, then no. You’ll be amazed how the miracles work out! And those who are closer and closer, they would be amazed the way things are worked out! I mean, there are so many things that like that. [unclear]

You should write a diary of all these things, what has happened and how. Somebody must start it. Even this place is nothing but that! Yesterday, I just was thinking where you could be, and I hope you are happy [unclear]. I felt that you are all very happy. I was wondering – they must have gone somewhere. After all, you have to go on the war! War front. This is the war here, but in a very comfortable way. And you are fighting them! This place has something which is to be fought out. So, you had sent here. [unclear, Also] many to fight. A lot of past of England is here, which is to be fought, and that’s how you are here. But in comfort. You’ll be taken to the right places where you have to fight, but quite in comfort. Angels are there, and they want to work through you! So they’ll give you all the comfort. You see, like a camera that you take somewhere. You see, we keep it in proper places. We may have difficulties in handling it, and standing somewhere, but the camera doesn’t have any problem. We must look after the camera because it’s a delicate staff. Like that, you are the instruments. So they look after you, you are not tortured, you are not troubled. But I mean, supposing you get some kings in your head, then nobody can help you. That’s a different point. That’s your stile – is to get kings in the heads. What are the wars? It’s a very comfortably place!

And you are fighting, and you don’t know that you are fighting! You don’t know what you are doing here!? You think, you are just sitting and enjoying yourself [unclear]. Ha, you are doing great works sitting down here! The whole history of England is fought here. 

Shri Mataji to somebody: better now?

And I was so happy that so many of you agreed to come. If I tell you these, don’t be frightened for next time. 

(Yogis are laughing)

Shri Mataji: So, how far you have to go with others is your sense of judgement, and you learn this tact. There are angels around you. They will put [unclear, you a hand] through, they will meet you, where to do what, how to do. That you should get thirty people for Sahaja Yoga, (Shri Mataji is laughing) is something remarkable. I had one person to begin with in India. One person! One old lady of sixty years. You are lucky people, I must say. Already things are arranged because when she told Me that there was like a shop, you see, everybody is telling them about yourself and all that, and there is one, some Raja yogis came, they newer appeared and there were TM peoples, off course they are out now. It’s so. It’s all worked out beforehand. 

I mean, imagine this place to be found out by Don. 

Where ever you are, you are spreading light, you do not know about it, but it is that. Only keep your lanterns clean, don’t get to kings and waste My energy for nothing at all. And you will be amazed how much light you are emitting, and how much you are fighting, and how many people you are impressing!

So, you will be amazed that if you leave it to Sahaja Yoga, after some time you will just give up. If you do not like a certain thing, you just give up, and you will not be bothered, and neither you will be sorry. Like I have seen My grandchildren, you see, they come and work on somebody, for a while they are climbed on, and they will do this, and they work very hard, and it’s cling on, but after some time they just get away. Absolutely, all of them will leave just like the dogs, you see, live the bowl. In the same way, they, it moves his left, now nothing work can be done, they get up. It happens like that, spontaneously. Then you don’t even feel sorry that you have not done anything, oh you are worked so hard, it is such a waste and all that. You don’t think all these things. You say [unclear], let it be. But so many people whom you will think you have left will come back.

Yogi: [unclear]

Shri Mataji: What’s it?

Another yogi: The ™ coffee is ready for everyone.

Shri Mataji: Alright. [unclear], we have to go there.

Another yogi: We can bring it to You. But, I think, most of us we have to …

Shri Mataji: Alright, then go ahead. 

It’s very [unclear]. Better offer tea. Shri Mataji, and everybody is laughing). May God bless you! (up to Min 32:25)

First western seminar: “Void, Zen”. Easthampstead Park, Bracknell (UK), 15 October 1978.

(from Min. – 44:54 on Video 1978-10-15 Advice To Sahaja Yogis London NITL HD)

[…] So, what’s the use of reading it? “Only praise the Mother!” that’s what He [Adi Shankaracharya] said. People asked Him, “Why have You praised the Mother only? Why don’t you write something else?” He said, “That’s the only way you can get it [the Realization]. What’s the use of giving all avidya, non-knowledge? I am giving the real knowledge: you praise the Mother and just do  that.” And all those learned pandits and all that, they challenged Him, and they tortured their lives [of saints].

Now what is the present Shankaracharya Shringari doing, do you know that? This [Adi] Shankaracharya took a sanyasa because He had to work and dedicate Himself, and He went all over the world whenever it was possible for Him. He went to Kashmir and all these places, and He did such a lot of work. While this fellow who is a small little horrible thing, he is now making –  whether you like it or not, I will have to say this. 

He is trying to collect money because he has to make an umbrella of gold. And he has to put diamonds on that, and there is  seven stones [that] will be put, and nine stones will be put on that umbrella and one day, when he will be sitting, the umbrella has going  to fall off. (Yogis laugh.)

Yogini: Could I have [unclear, feel that]  [INDIST.SOUNDS LIKE: the whole  discussing matter, because  the truth is what matter, and the truth is the hardest thing to find [unclear], so people … 

Shri Mataji: Yes, that’s it!

Yogini: That is said, so people would kindly [INDIST.] …

Shri Mataji: But, but – you see, a truth can only,  can be found when you remove the clouds! 

Yogini: [unclear] 

Shri Mataji: No, no, no, no – that you have to remove yourself.

Yogini: Yes, but [unclear] when the clouds (?we) form, and…  

Shri Mataji: No, no – you can.

Yogini: So, therefore…

Shri Mataji: You see, it is your own mind that forms the cloud. If you are on the truth, the clouds will disappear – but you must tell people there are clouds, you have to tell them. Not only – you have to tell them the fact, because you see, we are getting people here from different sources and different types, you see? I have been facing people in Japan. For example, I faced lots of Zen-People and I have to talk to them. Some of them did accept, some of them did not – what can I do about it?

 Yogini: [unclear ] people … making  clouds like forcing this, so I think …]

Yogi: This support needs [unclear] … 

Yogini: Yes, but you can’t convince that, so therefore,  that you,  [INDIST.] – allow you to block your way,  you just walk round.

Shri Mataji: That’s very nice to say, but [it] doesn’t happen that way. They block your way because they are in your sub-conscious. You have to face that. You have to take them out, you have to cleanse them.

With Sahaja Yoga – what happens? That you can see them and you can clear them. But if you just say, “Now I am  Realized, all it’s all right” – it is not so. It is not so!  That’s why they did in, in the ancient time  the Hata-Yoga style was first to take a person from childhood away from the madding crowd, keep him there, cleanse him, keep him in pure conditions and treat him very well and then give him a  Realization, gradually from one chakra to another chakra and take him up for – this was done in many ages, in many lives of those people. They were again selected, brought in, and again it was done. It was a very long process.

But now, after getting  Realization, you can do it yourself. You can clear yourself, clean yourself, but you must face what sorts of problems there are. Now for some people here, I mean most of them, they have no this problem anymore now. They do not think that these Buddhist and anyone of them, whether Lamas or Damas or anything, they have any contribution made towards spiritual life. They are convinced of it. They do not contribute anything to spiritual life. These children do, such  Realized soul,  it’s a  Realized soul.

Now if he is a  Realized soul and if the, if the head of the Zen is not – what can you do about it? It’s a fact. And those who follow Zen are not following because they have to be  Realized. First thing is they should be  Realized, and who will  Realized them if the head is not  Realized? If one light is not enlightened, how is it going to enlighten other lights?

Yogini: Anyone has to do. The same is as they have been  Realized, so they have got  Realization from You  people anyway near thinking like that. It’s not after have been cured,  You really face it. Vienna, Milano, Geneva …

Shri Mataji: Ha!  Now you better tell them Sheila about yourself. You see, you are sticking on to this. Now just tell what happened to you  Sheila, you tell them.

Another Yogini: There is just one point …

Shri Mataji: Ah.

Yogini: … making list her she has to go the long way round to come to …

Shri Mataji: No, no, no, no!

Yogini: The point is that, you can’t [unclear] (?dissolve that).

Shri Mataji: It is not. Now I tell you that.  It is, – you are saying this, that you people all believe that you are all guided that way. You  – it is not. You see, you concede  guidance, but nobody is going to force you that way. It’s your own choice. You make mistakes through your choice, your freedom is all the time there. What I can do is to tell you what is what – and leave it to your freedom. That if you think that, if everybody has to go, then why should I be here?

Yogini: No,  I consider   have to [unclear] hear that when going once that people make  a choice to see, they are not using just walk straight into the open door, they are going to crash into the wall on the way. So therefore people who come to you finally will be yours.

Shri Mataji: Hm.

Yogini: They would do that, I mean, but they …

Shri Mataji: Yes, they do.

Yogini: … they think that …

Shri Mataji: Yes, I agree.

Yogini: … they have to choose …

Shri Mataji: Yes they do, I have all the patience, I know, I have, I have all the patience for them, but what My thing, My Job is to tell them, this is a wall and you don’t hit your head. And being a Mother, you can imagine, I see them as little babies now newly born. So I feel concern and I tell them very positively, very clearly that don’t jump into that pile/fire. But still they do, some of them, Sheila did that.

Another Yogini: [ INDIST. SOUNDS LIKE: That’s turnout, I said to Gregoire, it’s snoring. You know I love him and I have been tortured there. I think now with Shri Mataji is terminated after the… But I am just gone put one thing a little bit to make sure and once I made” sure, Gina gone to walk another illuminating. I was just straight sure, completely.]

Shri Mataji: She didn’t identify it all, she just visited that once. Once only.

Yogini: I was very ill, physically and everything and intensive what just has been round by, and then he was a man. I don’t like doing the same thing. (Yogis laugh.) Not to name it out – a good job.

Shri Mataji: Just imagine …

Yogini: … there are all persons limited …

Another Yogini: [INDIST.SOUNDS LIKE: When there is no talking, when there is …] (All Yogis laugh.)

Shri Mataji: And now you see the people from Muktananda,  now just see My position is, take up from Muktananda  here, so many of them. I cleanse them, I clean them, I put them right. I tell them whatever it is, why they are sorry, lots of problems, how it happens. I mean, I have to work really, really very hard for them, really very hard, and then they again go into  some trauma. 

So it, I have to point it out very clearly, that as long as you identify with falsehood you will not be  Realized. You cannot get it. You have to give up falsehood, see for yourself, work it out! The best judgement: your vibrations. You must get it. Now see this girl has been reading certain books and things and that’s go  on [in] her head and she herself can feel it that there is a blockage  in her head. You can feel it yourself, isn’t it?

(A baby makes a little noise, the Yogis laugh.)

If the sensitivity is all right, then you go to the right point. But no, you see, your sensitivity is very much blurted and obstructed. Feel that, come here!

Now ask Me other questions, all right? So it is for your own good, your own good and I’ll tell you. I am not telling even one thing that is not auspicious, and I will not,  whether people like it or not. So sometimes I camouflage, because things do not go straight into their heads. As I told, that if somebody is stupid, you shouldn’t say, “You are stupid.” (Yogis laugh.) Yes! One has to go in a round way. That’s a Mother’s style.

But I have to tell you the truth,  I am telling you the truth. First thing you should do, is to establish your vibrations. First thing is that, then you talk about [unclear] (?Realization) and nothing doing.  “First my vibrations. There are so many people who have established them. Why [unclear] not, why not – I must get it.” That’s the thing, should be there. If that works out … it’s very good. If it doesn’t work out, then work it out. That’s the only thing  you have to get it – nothing else.  Is to understand.

Now I asked her what books did she read, what happens? She told Me, you see. So, I can now correct it, I know where is the problem, you see. By telling Me facts, what is the problem, I can correct it better. Like a doctor is to be told, what is the thing. Because most of the things here in the Western mind is mental. Our reading, our – you see – past life and all these things in the sub-consciousness has come and also our ambitions and our aspirations and all that – all these things work out, (?through Me).

So, we have to clear ourselves, we have to be absolutely cleared out – this is what Buddha wanted, is enlightenment, what else? Did He want people to form for fighting? Nothing of that kind. He wanted only to get enlightenment, to be able to read themselves and not some books, you see. Buddha wrote no book. Nothing He wrote, and those who write about Him were not Realised  people either. He said that you should not worship anything, because He was so fed up with the people who were worshipping all kinds of nothings.  So He said, ‘don’t  worship’. Now they are worshipping His tooth, , His hair, his nails, this, that.  

Of course, to Me, I know, it is great, everything has a meaning, but to these people it has no meaning. They cannot feel the vibrations of that, so what are they worshipping?

Like in Kashmir I went, and I went to a place and I just got tremendous vibrations and I said, “What’s there here? Is there a Temple or something?” They said no. I said, “This place seems to be really vibrated.” I stopped the car and asked the driver. He said, “You knew there is a big [INDIST.] that is the one hair of Mohamed is put there.” Oh, I said, that’s great!” And the driver said, “What’s great? This hair has caused so much problem here. People have been fighting over it, there has been so many murders in this place.” 

Now what the poor hair has done? You see, just imagine. To Me, it has given Joy and such feeling of oneness there. And to others it has given fighting. The Muslims have been fighting, because the hair was lost and this and that. Then, when the hair was returned, they did not know whether it was a true hair or some other hair … (the Yogis laugh) … big  contra-versus about things.

We went to, there is one place of Valmiki-Ashram near Bihar, you see. On the other side of Bihar in Nepal and I went down there, you see, wading through a river to see that place. Just to feel it, I know it is that. So then when I came back, and see, one of the  [INDIST.] very learned men from Bihar, he was also there. He said, “Mother, what do you think, is this the place where Sita-ji lived?” I said, “Yes, She did. She did.” He said, “How do You know?” I said, “I know it, for one thing, it’s My own experience that it was so. Apart from that, you can ask any Sahaja Yogi, they can say, that this is the place She lived, because you feel the vibrations throughout.”

He said, “Really there are books and books written against it, that this is not the place, this is non the Indian soil, not on the Nepali soil, this, that, all these things … Just imagine! They are  fighting about the Divine Mother, whether She was born in Nepal or here. She was a Nepali-Lady, She was born in Nepal, no doubt about it. But Nepal is no good, they are no good, neither  Indians are. All are just the same. Horrible people, fighting anything good you bring it, they start fighting. What to do with this human nature?

Actually, these people did not realise , none of them knew,  as I know you people.   Really I can tell this.  Even Christ did not know how human beings are crooked. They are too good. Humanization has to be completed I think in this life of Mine, and I get horrified!  Still people think I am [an] ignoramus, I don’t know much. I have to still read lots of things to understand human beings.

You see, because of their so-called Intelligence – which cheats them – because they think is all-, they can manage, they think they can manage everywhere.  What they are not managing is themselves, their own choice, their own properties, their own wealth – that’s what they are not managing, that’s what they are not feeling, that’s what they are missing. That is within them, so great, bubbling, manifesting, anxious to come out, that’s all missing. Now what are they managing like fools? These  out of show.

Somebody has to say it and can convince you. I am here to convince; I am here to convince you – about Buddha. And do you know Buddha took His birth again? He was Hassan and Hussein, one of them was Buddha, another was Mahavira. See the silence. Buddhist won’t accept, because they got frightened their lives, the way the Buddhist were all souring.

Mohammed Sahib took His birth as Nanaka. If you read Nanaka’s life, I mean if you read what He has to say, all the time He is saying, “Oh God, how are you fighting among yourselves, the Hindus and the Muslims, or the Muslims and the other people? I am just the same!  How are you fighting?” You see, when He died, Mohammed Sahib, and  He saw where the religion was taken by Muslims, He was to be born again.  To tell them! But when He was born again, and He started telling, people stoned Him. And these Sikhs asked them, these fools, you go and ask them, “What –  what He has done?” All His life He was trying to unite both of them because He was so much surprised at this.  And imagine  the Sikhs, all their lives they are fighting the Muslims, and the Muslims, the fools, they are fighting the Sikhs.

I talked to some Arab Ladies – they agree with Me. There are  so many who agree with Me, you can see, after all they are intelligent enough to see. But something of it lurks in us which must be taken out, which is falsehood. You must give up all that is falsehood, because falsehood keeps you away from reality which is beauty and joy, which is yourself [your Self].

When I talked in nineteen-seventy first time and I [unclear, unlatched] all of them, they called it spiritual jugglery. Left and right all of them I said, there  everybody was so frightened. There was one Raja of Mundi, he came, he said, “Mother they will go, come and kill You.” I said, “This time I am going to kill them. Nobody is going to crucify Me now. Don’t you worry about Me” He said, “I am worried about your well-being. You are saying like this, you see, people will feel very angry with You.” I said, “Let them come. This time I am going to face it. It was all right before I took up the show, but now no more. Let’s have it out. Somebody has to say it.”

It’s  very nice for Me to go about, “Oh pleasing all of you, oh very good, you, this society is very good, that church is very good, Pope, you own  My love” and all that. (Yogis laugh.) And get all of them together, because I am a Realised  soul no doubt,  and I can say that, “Oh I am this, I have got curative-powers, I am raising Kundalini” and this and that, and get all of them put together. I could have done that way, but it is not going to work out. Of course, if they come to Me, I’ll manage, because there is a certain protocol of the truth.

Christ did not go to these people and tell them. He argued with them and told them, what was the truth. Buddha preached non-violence, He thought that by non-violence-methods these people will accept. But He found by doing that, what has happened, all the horrible rakshasas are sitting there very nicely. Anybody who is a good person is to be tortured, that was the lot.  Anybody who is a religious person must be killed. Anybody who was a Realised  soul must be crucified. This was the pattern of life.

So, they came as Hassan and Hussein, and fought it!  If the time comes, the wrath of God will come upon these people. He has a very tremendous wrath. If in one incarnation if it has not shown, it doesn’t mean it does not exist. It does exist.

It’s all right for Christ to say, that if you put, if somebody slaps you on one face, put the other around. It is just to develop your patience, but when you slap on one face of a  Realised soul, one side is cleared and when you put the other cheek, the second side is also cleared. Both the sides are just cleared out, that’s why it was said. The deeper sense is like that. And then the person falls at your feet, asking for forgiveness.

Just see, a wasp hit Me here and the vibrations were  – hundred times more. Isn’t it a funny thing? It is a very deep – secrets of  life, but at least you must know that,  unless and until you  give  up all that is falsehood, which keeps you floating on the surface, you cannot go deep down. These are all bubbles, you know, you must have seen people floating with two, two balloons  jetting out, you see. In the same way, our ego and superego keep you floating. It doesn’t allow you to go deep down into yourself.

So by rationality you cannot understand it. You give up your rationality, come deep down in the centre.  You have to move there. 

Buddha did His job; He built  up here, on [the] left-hand-side,  your personality. Mahavira did His job here. Now it’s  My job to do it, is to break your Brahmarandra – and let Me do it. They are all within Me, They are part and parcel of Me, and they [unclear, are listened they are mine]   – every minute, every second, every moment They are here. Don’t worry about Me , don’t  worry about yourself [your Self].

You just think how far you have gone with your meditation, how deep you have gone into yourself [your Self]. If you have not gone, it’s not a mistake of Sahaja Yoga,  but is your own mistake. It is something wrong somewhere. Just weigh out,  where is the mistake?  Is your ego  bloating up  or is your super-ego  bloating up?  What is not keeping you, – dive into your being?

See now, how much I am working hard on you – days in and days out. It is a simple thing.

In Derby, we had someone who belonged to a big organization, and he came round, and he started arguing out. So one of the Sahaja Yogis asked, “Now come and tell me, how many people you have given realization to, how many people you have cured?” He said, none. Then he said, “What are you talking to Mataji? She has given realization to thousands, you have seen it. She has cured thousands of people, we have cured also, so better take it from Her instead of getting angry with Her and telling Her about this big organization that you have.” When the fellow was changed, and when he went and told his organization  people, who would follow him as a guru, they said, “Oh, he is gone mad.” They left him, and they selected another mad man to be their guru.

Nobody is going to stand by you, organization-wise, I can tell you. All your organizations will never accept Me as a whole, never. Because they stand on some falsehood. They will never accept Me, the whole of it. None of these organizations are going to accept Me.

In America, I have seen the same thing. It is a sad thing, but it is the same thing.

There is one lady who is running, she calls it “Light of the Universe”. She invited Me there, and she [unclear]  to [unclear] (Shri Mataji is laughing). She  arranged for Me a three-days-conference and all that, you see. At the end of it  she took Me down into her house, down  below, and  there she had made a temple and all full of bhoots, and she said, “Here I call my master from Tibet.” I said, “Very nice, and why have you called Me?”  I put a bandhan  to her and all that. I came away.  So, some people left her completely, and joined  Me. She was writing to Me that, “I should go to her,  and again I have to speak  because she makes a lot of money out of that.” But I told her not to meet  for some time.

So the whole of it won’t come to Me, because the basis is wrong, the basis is wrong, absolute falsehood it is. The basis of all these organizations is wrong. It has done no good, if you see it very clearly and honesty, they had done  no good. At the most they are philanthropic things, like, we can say, a council which is rendering help to some sick people, to admit in the hospital, some this and that, that’s all. At the most, if they have done anything.  So, you are like councilmen,  you see, council people.  But why bring in God there? It’s all right, you are social workers, do the social work. That  is not spiritual work. Spiritual work is spiritual work,  where you have to be awakened. You understand?

So, all those societies or all those religions, all of them, one and all, hundred percent. You are saying twenty-five percent, I would say even if one percent is there, I’ll thank My  stars. Even one percent, I am not saying, a genuine one which is based on giving  Realization to people in the real sense of the word. These so called, this  Daya Mata  place, I have been there. This Yogananda was not a  Realized soul, you will be shocked that  ‘Babaji and ‘Dadaji’ and all of them were not  Realized souls at all.

Now the people who were there have come and told Me. You see they, there was a doctor we had, he died of that. He used to do all the Catharism,  to cut his tongue, put it back, put it here, you see. Imagine all these things and always his tongue used to wag  like that, and he had to put some sort of a hold for his tongue – otherwise the tongue would wag out like that. He had cut if for his threat and turn it up, put it here for raising the Kundalini – just imagine!

Now if somebody comes like that, what should I say, “Now you cut your nose and put it inside?”(Shri Mataji laughs loudly.) Just tell Me!  There are people like that. This  Yogananda’s school, they are doing Catharism. Kabira came, and He lashed them, completely this Catharism and all that. He said, “One day your tongue will be cut, your noses will be cut and this will happen. You will be hanging down head downwards in the hell, the way you are treating these people, those who are seeking.”

These are the people, and they publish books, you see. Their books will be published and all that, they will have BBC-Programs and everything will support them and help them, because they are all based on falsehood. What did they do to Christ? Did any scientist accept Him? Did any bureaucrat accept Him? What did they do to Buddha? When He lived, He had a very bad time. After His dead of course everybody started making money and things like that. But what good  have they done?

Japanese supposed to be the most – as you say Japanese are Buddhists – cruellest people ever known; cruellest people are Japanese. Cruellest of all, you see, they have such a funny system.

I went to Japan; I was amazed that any good-looking woman does not marry in Japan. This has come out of Buddhism, just imagine, a system. No good-looking woman would marry, neither an educated woman would marry, only dishwashers marry. The women who are absolute useless, good for nothing, ugly looking horrid women who are maidservants in other places, they marry, and they are the mothers of the children of Japan. The mother, even if her husband beats her, does anything, has to bear, he can make keeps in the house, concubines there, he can go and visit the Geishas, she is not supposed to say anything. And that’s why in the whole world, you know, a Japanese wife is the best. She is worse than a slave to him. And if you go to Japan, nobody will invite you to their houses and homes.

See I went without My husband, so they didn’t know what to do out of Me, you see. They couldn’t take Me to Geisha houses, and they couldn’t take Me to their houses either. So, they didn’t know really what a pickle I was. And I read, they didn’t know what to really make out of Me. I told them I would like to go to Geisha houses also, to see there what’s happens.  And there I found with these Geishas, when I was talking to them, that they are fed up with  this nonsense. They said, you see, “We are beautiful women, so we don’t marry, because we get the money. And we are part-time, also career girls.” There were some part, part-time Geishas and part-time career girls. And they all meet in there. You see, they are absolutely openly like that.

Here they do it also, I mean the way the women go out for dating is what? Is Geisha-business. Dating is what? I mean, there they call themselves at least honestly, they are Geishas, but here dating with a man, poor man has to pay for them every evening, when it is too much.

All this is in a very subtle way here. So you see, you say there is no prostitution and there is prostitution. I mean, they said, what are the laws of prostitution. You cannot,  sort of advertise it, but you can have a sauna bath or something. I mean, some sort of a thing that they have made here with their intelligence.

But in Japan it is clear-cut, Geisha is a Geisha, a housewife is a housewife, but if you see a housewife, her hands, there is no softness, really hard hands, just like the bark of a tree. If you see the feet, if you see their legs are bent, their bodies are bent, very young women look so older. We were invited to a very rich man’s house. There I saw his daughters-in-law were beautiful, but they had to pay a lot of money to those girls and to their parents to get them there. No girl would marry. Then the children, when they see their mother being treated like this, what will happen to them? You see, after all, there is a mother’s pride within them, and they can’t bear it anymore.

So Japanese are the people, outside they are very  disciplined, you see, they are like the way the mother is disciplined outside. They’ll go on bowing.  See, if you don’t stop, they’ll go on (Laughs.) If you stop it, then they will stop. They will not stop earlier, but if there is an accident they’ll get down, bow to each other.  But in the crowd, if they find a foreigner, they will put their heels round [unclear, them]. They kill people in such a butchery way, they are butchers, I tell you!

They are very disciplined, because one is talking, nobody will talk. They are just like machines. Hiroshima gave them a shock, that really gave them a shock, and they were jolted. The young people now, the young women are revolted  against it, they are realizing it. But I don’t know the way sometimes the young go also another mad, crazy (?day/thing). But there is an awakening in Japan.

Now you can’t blame Buddha for this, you cannot blame Bodhidharma for this, the Zen-man who did this. He was a  Realized soul, no doubt about it.

They do not understand anything about  Zen, they do not. They said, “This is all very difficult for us.” They have certain things like No-playing [theatre]  which I went and saw Myself and I really enjoyed it. They couldn’t understand why I was enjoying it. They couldn’t understand why I enjoyed their temples very much, what it was to convey, you see.

They have Temples which create like, you can say, a Moss-Temple is on top of a hill – you see – you have to go through a building in, on top of a hill. When you come out there is a little place, like that only,  [unclear] this one, and there is a little mount made like a, like a drop, you see? And a little drop here, like a question-mark, you can say, or a  drop here. And this all  filled with small plants of moss. You can see it through the, through the, what you call the  magnifying glass, beautiful different, different – you see – mosses are there.

Now, anybody will say, “What’s this? All the way to brought us here, what is all this? Is it a Temple? What’s sort of a Temple?” Now that is a Zen-style, that when you see it, you cannot answer why, how! You just stop there in thoughtless awareness. It was to awaken your thoughtless awareness.

So the Zen-people said, “Now You tell me what is this?” I said, “Is it what Zen has told you.  This is what, which, should not make you talk and think!  You just say that, ‘You watch this”  and do not ask any questions, become one with it.”

That’s what the Zen-people tried to do. They thought that by doing this, by telling people that, “Watch this without thought, watch this without thought”, it will work out. But they did not know that these people were not even awakened. It’s only possible for people who are awakened. They were of that high, they did not realize, that these people were not even awakened, how can they do things without thought. And all these temples are useless for these  people.

There is another place where there is lots of sand   spread out, and a beautiful pattern drawn on it and there are some stones of various forms put there, and you have to go sit around it and see that. Everybody who goes there  they said, “Mad people these are.”  They take you to a temple, and there  you see all these , and one  American  said, [unclear]  Wow! Wow, what’s this? All the way walking up, oh God, I lost  my feet, and what’s this? What is it?” And nobody can understand, the Zen-people, don’t understand, you see,  This is what it is. “Very beautiful, you must see, this is very beautiful”, they are telling in their funny English,  to these Americans, [unclear, and they say]  really?  And they have to walk bare-feet, you see, all the way down. They can’t understand why all this circus was done for them, and the ones who is  explaining do not know. It is nothing but the same thing, that you watch a thing, which does not communicate anything to you, so you become quiet.

Then they start comparing as usual  our ideas are, that –  “Oh!  This is like an ocean and in the ocean, there are these boats.” “It’s rather not like a boat, I must say.” (Yogis laugh.) The another one  with  some other idea, that this is this, this is this – but that is the thing, you don’t have to!  You don’t have to compare it with anything, you just have to see it, without thought!  

That’s what Zen wanted to do, to watch a flower without thinking of it, just watch it as it is. How can you do it unless and until you are thoughtlessly aware?

And [unclear],  they did not know that people are not thoughtlessly aware. That’s possible only when  the Kundalini is above the Agnya.

They thought [the] minimum that must be with human beings, you see, that they are thoughtlessly, they can become thoughtlessly aware. They did not know that that is also missing, because they were of a very high-quality people. All of them were born Realised,  actually. Twenty-six of them in six centuries – can you believe it? Sixth century it started, till the twelfth century there were twenty-six, after that there was not one Kasha. Is a fact, it is written down. I mean, I’m  not telling you a lie. So, who can explain what is what?

It’s  in every religion, in every book all this nonsense had  been done: Blind explaining something that is light. It’s an impossibility! I do not blame them for that, but I blame them there that they think, “Oh, we are the enlightened, oh, we are the Buddha.  We, we, –  know everything, we are Christ!”  Christians think, they are all Christians – means they are Christ themselves. This miss-identification is very wrong. You understand now? This is what it is.

Yogini: You said that the Buddhist, all the Buddhists [unclear, stand that]  never say that enlightenment comes easy.  It could take a thousand lives.

Shri Mataji: That’s, that’s the best way of deluding people, you see. It takes thousand times, it’s correct – at what time? When they were Zens’, it was very difficult, but not today.

It was very difficult at the time of My grandmother’s time to think even that you will go to the moon. And even when people went there, she would not believe it. She said, “No, no – you are just showing a picture, just befooling me. How can anybody go?” Even if you showed her anything, she would not believe. She said, “It’s all there, coming to the earth and this is what you are just there, just befooling you, don’t believe them. They must be befooling.” Even today, if you tell her, she is not going to believe, because it was impossible. Even when I was a student, you see, they used to say so many million years and billion years it will take to go to the moon. It has not taken anything like that.

So, the growth of life, when it comes, in the beginning one flower appears, a second appears after three, four years, then when the tree comes up and when the blossom-time comes, so many flowers come up. This is a living thing. First one fish became a reptile, then after many years [a] second one came in, but after some time shoals of them became – it’s the evolutionary way.

What they said, was correct at that time, is not correct today. Because they say it, are you going to stop your  Realization, even if you are getting it? For them, it is impossible, not difficult, but it is an impossibility, they can never get  Realization.

So what they say, there is truth in it. It’s difficult – these Lamas never!  None of them, not one of them is going to get  Realization – take it from Me. Not one! 

Yogini: I am not depending now  these organizations at all,  I agree with. I’m  earning …

Shri Mataji: I am just telling you, …

Yogini: Yes.

Shri Mataji: … I am just  telling you, I am not addressing it to you, but in general, you see?  I am just saying a general statement. Part of it is across your mind I am speaking [unclear],  and also gave Me clarification.  These Lamas are parasites, absolute  parasites.  Living on other people’s money, opium. Other people’s money,  dealing in opium, it’s the best trade.  All  leading an abnormal life  and doing all kinds of abnormal things. They [have] never  given any guidance to the whole world. Most all guidance how they could live without spending any money.

First of all, it is difficult to give  Realization, you can see that. Then, when you give them also, they again go down in to it. Then again bring them out,   again they go, again deep down. If it is not working out, it is not working out.

Now as it is, if you say that, “My left hand is tingling” – I am not telling you that, you are saying that, it is happening to you – it is definitely there. So, there is something wrong. So, you must cure it, it’s a simple thing. I am not giving any auto-suggestions that your right hand is paining, or left hand is heavy. It is there, and it is that/dead, and you yourself are telling Me. So, what I am trying to do is to help you out, to take it out.

And it is not so easy also [unclear, with human beings] 

It’s better? Hmm, it’s good. 

Yogini: Sahasrara cooled down and [unclear, this is very hot].

Shri Mataji:  Ha, see now, she herself is  telling Me.  This one is so cool and this one is so hot. Now I am not telling her anything. (Shri Mataji is rubbing Her hands.) Hmm. Put your hand here down. [unclear, It’s all right. Right hand on this side]. You see, one hand is cold, one is hot. How to explain? You cannot.

Yogi: Mataji, yesterday in the seminar [unclear, one of the things]  we didn’t know much about this Void, because it seemed a very important part of it,  the Nabhi and Swadishthana around it, yet  we didn’t know that much about this …

Shri Mataji: Hmm, hmm. So, what do you want to know?

Yogi: Well, I mean  how the Kundalini passes through it, because there  is not [unclear, ?written by one of the disciples of Indian saint university] that could be  difficult to reach. 

Shri Mataji: What is it?

 Yogi: He said, because is the most difficult thing to be reached.  (Shri Mataji laughs.)

Shri Mataji: For them, it was. . (Shri Mataji is sniping with Her fingers – longer pause.)

A,  what we call Void, maybe, that’s  because says in the Zen, Void has a different meaning, but in Sahaja Yoga, what part is called as Void?You see, in Sahaja Yoga we do call it as Void, a part of it, but if you want, you can call it Bhavasagara,  or you can call it by a  Gap, name as a Gap, all that. This is the stomach of a human being, it is the visceras, and it has worked two important Chakras, you see, one is the central one, which is called as the Vishnu’s Chakra and another one is Swadishthana which is circling it. The relationship between the sustaining power that is within us, which is the evolutionary power, which gives us this human form from amoeba, which is the evolving power within us, placed in our stomach, on the solar plexus. This relationship between this power and with the five elements is the area which is Dharma, is Dharma, is the rule… 


(Video – from Min. 32:26 (1978-10-15 Advice To Sahaja Yogis London NITL HD) actually, this part of the record is before the above part!)

… themselves. For example, supposing you say you are a Buddhist, supposing one says, “I am a Buddhist”, you don’t become Buddha, by any chance, you don’t, you don’t become a Buddha.

And this understanding goes on disappearing after some time, you see, among human beings, and I was amazed that really the head of the Zen is not a  Realized soul and I told him,  but he told Me, they had only twenty-six kashyapas so far, only twenty-six  Realized souls there. And he was travelling with about five of the disciples, and he came to India and none of them were  Realized. Is a fact.

You see, now supposing here in India and if I tell here to someone that in India if you go,  these Temples are now the fortress of tantricans, and people are using  the  temples which, which has living Deities,  for something wrong things, people won’t like it. But it’s a fact. If you go there, you will be amazed.

You see, I’ve explained to  them, these things,  because they had invited Me for this. I explained  them what is real, and I told  them what your Temples mean and how you go into thoughtless awareness and all that. But first thing is  Realization. Without that nothing happens, you see,  it is all prescribed for  Realized souls.

‘Zen’ means ‘dhyan’, ‘meditation’. Those who are not meditating, means who are not  Realized cannot understand Zen at all. You have to do meditating,  otherwise it’s just a joke going on, it’s a Drama going on, you see? People are just thinking and by reading Zen and all that you are going to achieve something. You cannot achieve anything by reading. Even  if you read Bible or Gita  you cannot achieve anything. It’s only reading.

Yogini: I [INDIST.] me and, and is, I, I, wish that we were- I think You see, [unclear] all the Deities… 

Shri Mataji: All of them are here. 

Yogini: Yes, yes.

Shri Mataji: Not one! 

Yogini: I want to say, if you’ll find,  twenty-five percent …

Shri Mataji: A  hundred percent!  Zen – I will tell you, I have travelled all over the world, I have travelled all over the world now. I have been up to Chile, up to Argentina, up to Colombia – except for Australia I have been everywhere, but I have met many Australians and I can tell you, I haven’t met one, one cent  which has anything of truth left in him, not one cent , leave  alone the religion power.  Not even one.

Like people, like in India, there was a very decent one,  Vallabhacharya was a great man, I mean he was like an Incarnation, like that he was. His disciples are, I was amazed that even they [unclear], when he had just done the sentence that, “I am telling you that you have to get your  Realization, without  Realization…” but they were also just the same, they are also following, this is  something that is dead.

You see,  – supposing you are not  Realized, and you start doing Sahaja Yoga to someone, moving your hands like this, raising the Kundalini – what will you do? You cannot do anything. So before – you see – feeling anything about what I have [to] say, you get your vibrations all right, first of all, you get yourself  Realized, that’s the main thing is.

Once your vibrations are all right then you can judge it better, because before that you cannot, because there is no rapport with the Truth and with the Absolute. You must get your vibrations corrected. First your vibrations must be corrected, you must be  Realized, and then you must judge it. Otherwise, you cannot. This is why – you see – we can spread anything which is false, because there I don’t have to put a condition on you.

Here you have to be  Realized, you have to be settled down, then only you will understand. Without that, by paying money, say by joining any community or by becoming any member of it, you cannot, you cannot become a Sahaja Yogi.  Sahaja Yogi you can only become if you have got the vibrations, if you can raise the Kundalini, then only you can be a Sahaja Yogi, this is a very big condition.

I mean if you have some sort of a society, as you have Buddhas-society, or you can have a – say – a Church or a Temple or any society, anybody can join it. You can join it, but you cannot be called that. And this has to be, because of this problem only, a person like Christ had  been brought out and thrown up to dust, a person like Buddha, a person like Mahavira, all Incarnations. They were very great, too great for human beings to understand and because they never got  Realization, they just brought them  to dust, absolutely to dust.

Buddhism, have  taken  such perversions, [INDIST.], if you go to Ladakh, Tibet, these Lamas! Now see, the Lama is speaking, now would you call it Buddhist?

Yogi: Some of the Lamas are not Buddhists  at all, they are just head to  their community, they are not religious people.

Shri Mataji: But they are not  Realized. I have not met even one Lama who is  Realized. You know this  Panchen Lama and this, what is, Dalai Lama …

Yogini: You may call him politician.

Shri Mataji: I tell you, they are politicians.

Yogini: I know.

Shri Mataji: That’s a hundred percent, not only, but they are possessed people.

Another Yogini: [unclear, But do they, make the  people] …

Shri Mataji: You see, apart from that they are possessed, you see, that’s how they get their “third eye” and all this nonsense, and they got those visions and things.

I was, My Husband was with Lal Bahadur Shastri  and Lal Bahadur Shastri’s   wife was a little shy Lady, and she could not go out. Normally I used to attend to people and I used to sit next to them. So this, when this Dalai Lama and this   Panchen Lama came to Delhi, I was sitting next to him. I just could not sit, I was getting such burning from him and I felt little nervous sitting next to him, I mean funny …. So Shastriji asked Me, “Why are You not happy there?” I said, “If you don’t [unclear],  if you permit Me, this man is not religious. Can you sit…?” He recognized Me. He said, “Just please, if You want, You can sit on the other side.” So I moved on, and then I gave him Bhandan and all that.

They are parasites apart from anything. You see, Tibet-people are so poor, so poor …. Have you been to Tibet? Very poor people, so poor, you cannot imagine, the poorest of poor are there, and these people live in complete luxury, in palaces like this. They take their milk in silver bowls, and they have marble inlets, and the people are in absolutely die-out poverty. They do not have houses, you know, they have touched things and – I mean, you cannot imagine the poverty there. Out of those people, to suck the blood and live like this is only possible for the rakshasas, I tell you. If you, if you do not like it, I have to say that. You will feel the same way, if you are sensitive of that. 

I went to Brindavan,  to Gokul, and I came back, and I told them, all the rakshasas, all the Kamsa’s anucharas    – the servants of Kamsa –  all the rakshasas are now the Pandas (from Sanskrit pandita, ‘learned man’).

Now you may not like it. When Christ hit people with the hunter, they did not like it, but that doesn’t mean they do not deserve it. I am going to [unclear]  lustrous anger this time. All the Pandas had to run away. You see, they are the people who are making money on the river Ganges. Sitting there, looting people – how can it be God? It is Anti-God, absolutely Anti-God.

 Yogini: I know this.

Shri Mataji: … absolutely, a hundred percent. Whether people like it or not, I have to say the truth. I am not here for seeking elections. All these are to be punished and are to be thrown away from the society. These are the ones who crucified Christ, these are the ones who hit Buddha, these are the ones who tortured Mahavira, these are the people who are today become, have religious people, trying to propagate religion and trying to make money out of it. A very ingenious method to, to build up a  religion to earn money, it’s floating and enterprise. 

Yogini: They really do that, and Buddha might [INDIST.] Knowing criticize, you see, my interest in Buddhism is not in Buddhists, bicause  the philosophy is good ….

Shri Mataji: That’s what is Sahaja, He is nothing but Sahaja ….

Yogini: So they [unclear, are following] what was the criticism, because you see, if you bend …

Shri Mataji: Not about Buddha I must say, I never,  how can I criticize Buddha? I mean we use Him for the clearing of our Agnya.

Yogi: Other people [unclear] 

Shri Mataji: It is … you see, how could I criticize, it would be saying tomorrow that I am criticizing Christ, I mean how could I criticize Him? I mean, how could this idea go into your head? Never! How can I criticize Him? On the contrary I am criticizing those who are using Him for their own purpose.

Yogini: You better [INDIST.]

Shri Mataji: That’s it!

Yogini: [INDIST] Christ [INDIST.] …

Yogi: Yes, that’s what Mataji says so long. 

Yogini: They said that every spiritual leader, you know, even Mahatma Gandhi, he has been so abused, and he hasn’t led that very long.  I think, I think that they are the leader [INDIST.] people with him. This is what I knew.

Shri Mataji: Yes, but somebody has to say it. (Yogis laugh) Somebody has to say these things. Isn’t it?

Yogi: Somebody has to speak out and say it’s wrong.

Shri Mataji: Yes. You see, you all, you see I am giving voice to what you want, do you feel within yourselves. Isn’t it? That’s what, how can I criticize something that’s My part and parcel in My being. How could you think like that?

[To a child:] Hello, Sue. [Yogis laugh] Hello Sue. Look at that! It’s good.

So, you don’t be draggling to these things. You see, this is a very important thing that you must all get your  Realization. All of you must get  Realization, because of this, this one snag, one snag in all the religious leader. This snag has done all the harm.

You see, Buddha was absolutely correct, but that was not the time for giving  Realization to people. So He thought that if He organizes people, they will be ready to receive the  Realization. That’s why  He organized, you see, and that’s why He created a Sangha.  But as all people are, I was also just the same, because I, I had to learn a lot about human beings.

You know these people are too pure to understand how human beings are crooked. Even you see some of them have said that you must not tell lies, you must not do this, you must not do this. It’s useless for human beings! If you tell them, immediately they take a Bible, go,  have a congregation, have a church nicely and give lectures, “You should not tell lies, these are ten commandments. Christ came in, and He is our father, He is this and that. Go home and do the same thing”… and take all the money from the people!

Is Tukarama,  – there  we had a very great Saint like Gyaneshwara.  Take the greatest of all – is Adi Shankaracharya, the one who came. You see, He did not come to refute Buddha, He came to refute Buddhism, the way the Buddhism was going, and what He said is exactly the same that you are doing, exactly the same. He said, [INDIST: Hindi?], “Neither by Yoga nor by Sankhia is this kind of a report  and all that, and by doing all these Sangha-Shakti and all that. Nothing! Only by Mother’s grace that it will work out, and that, one has to get  Realization.” He said it so clearly, but you will find hardly few Indians who are supposed to be Hindus reading Shankaracharya. Can you believe it?

(From here begins the third part, from min 44:54)