Evolution Beyond organised Religion

Caxton Hall, London (England)




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Evolution Beyond organised Religion, public programme, Caxton Hall, London (UK), 13 November 1978.

…experience it is, [to just] and it starts mesmerizing you. And this is the greatest faltering point .You have to mature. And it is not like this, that, like a toothpaste, I say, “All right, [you’ve] got this toothpaste. Your teeth will be shining.” It’s not like that, because you have problems; you are complicated. You must know you are complicated. And the Kundalini though it catches, you see, first time it will shoot up and come here. She is so happy that She has got [you to this state]. She is so anxious. She is your mother and She wants to give you realization, and She wants you to be [happy]. [You do catch]. It comes, connects, but again goes back.

Supposing you are a liver patient. Most of you are liver patients [unclear]. We call you the [UNCLEAR]. If you are a liver patient, poor thing the Kundalini, your Mother has to go there, work out there and you can actually see with your own eyes the Kundalini pulsating. You can see the pulsation and you know…Now, even if you are not a doctor you can tell anybody you are suffering from liver very serious and [unclear].

So many problems have come to us [through our looks/to our roots] and [even] menopause. [Yesterday I heard / But just imagine, for a] doctor the menopause. In India there is nothing like menopause. No one knows [what it is / whatsoever]. We do not have all these problems of what you call that generation gap. People don’t know what is generation gap. It’s a continuous life of people there, there must be generation. They [don’t talk] about it, you see, and they do not understand what is adolescence, you see. They do not understand all this.

This is all created by you, by thinking, thinking about it. You see, a person who has got a brain, you see, it’s a devil’s workshop. It must be the adolescence, it must be this, that. Now why the women here get menopause because that’s very insecure old age; such a horrid thing. I mean, nobody should become old in this country, the way people are. And everybody is going to become old. Nobody doubts about it, [do we? /nobody]. But the way they treat our old people and the way the old people, you know, get so insecure, they are so stupid poor people you know, they try to act like young. They are very stupid poor things; they have lost all, all sense of wisdom because they think big of themselves. We, the way we discard them, [with/we] the way we try to disrespect [them], they start behaving like young people. I mean, I have seen women of eighty years [still] talking like sixteen-year-old [girls], you know. [UNCLEAR] [I mean, I just don’t understand, what’s the matter with the woman?] The reason is that is how you can only live in this world. So the menopause is lost if the woman knows, ‘’I am a grandmother.” I am a grandmother. I can live with my age and I am very proud of my age, of my wisdom, and that I know that I do better than my children. I’ve seen much more of life and can guide them much better and I am in my own age and my own way and I am enjoying it very much.

Like in India we have four types of, we can say, the experiences. And this is my senior part of life; it’s the time when both of us, My husband and Me, should really live together, not in [the] separated ways, look after our children. Or we should really go to the forest and live with our grandchildren once we are there. Now we don’t have that facility. But it automatically works out. Imagine a sixty-year-old man talking of the marriage, or an eighty-year-old man talking of the marriage, or a thirteen-year-old boy also talking of the marriage. I mean, there is no maturity. There is no growth. You should grow. You should mature, and people should respect that maturity.

Because of this kind of all the complications these lazy minds or, I should say, the overactive minds are….You see this point. Cancer is the disease of the West [and] not of the East. I mean, people don’t know what is cancer, at all. In the whole ayurvedic Shastras there is no description of cancer. How the cancer is formed? By over-activity of thinking. Diabetes is also because of this ego. Heart trouble is because of this ego. Either they go mad or they get heart trouble ‒ one of the two. Those people who are so they bear it up the oppression of people who are thinking too much….Because the one who thinks, he always dominates. “You must drive like this. You must go like that. You stand like that. You must sit like that. You must eat like that.” All the time worried about others, minding others, such a person will get a heart trouble. And the person – apart for us, you see, somebody gets a heart attack we are very [unclear]. I mean, if you see, he actually, he doesn’t judge much of the things, and the person whom he has dominated, and got this heart attack because God is angry. But the other person, poor thing, the one who suffers too much gets a [madness/maddening] and we, we laugh at mad people. Our attitude changes. Those who have gone mad have really suffered too much. And those who have heart trouble are the people who have dominated. All ego-oriented people get heart attack. Actually, we have to ask forgiveness from God that, “Oh God, please forgive us.” We have to appeal to His forgiveness if we want to have to avoid heart attack. Oh, but if I tell this to anyone who had heart attack he [he’ll give Me a heart attack/leave immediately]. I cannot say this to anyone that, “You are very ego-oriented and you have become routine. There’s no need for domination. Become humble in your heart. Become humble in your heart.” They’ll immediately get angry with Me because [their aroused] ego will come forward. They’ll say, “You are [INAUDIBLE].” So this kind of a thing they do.

I would request you to understand the complications we have in the West. Now I am not facing an Indian talking. It’s all right for Me that is Eastern which is on the other side of it. Take it from Me. Eastern people have another problem, terrible problem they have. You see, and that is the different thing today I am facing you and that’s why I have to deal with/believe it is your problem as it is and see [if/which] I have seen, we can [unclear]/which I have noticed, which I’ve heard, if we can work it. I have gone into everybody’s Kundalini to find out what’s the problem with these people. And that’s how I found out. So you have to humble down in your heart. If you have to evolve, really humble down in your heart. I’ve seen even the priests, even the people who try to preach, they are so ego-oriented. There is nothing like love in them. In the love also there is so much ego. See, love is full of good [UNCLEAR]. It doesn’t emit. All these things are there and the responsibility for them goes to our over-use of our ego. We have used it for our [struggle?]. Because of use of ego, our intellect, we think we can manage. But don’t try to fight the ego. If you try to fight it will sit on your head. The same ego is supported because through this ego only you are tired. You are fed up with yourself and you are not going to venture. If there was not sufficient ego you would not have been [like this/on this earth]. So you have felt it. Now you are going to manage it and it can be worked out. Not to hate yourself, because you have been egoistical.

Because the another type [would / could] be – and we have some people who are another type, they are even worse. They are all the time crying and weeping, “Mother, I’ve committed this sin and that sin.” So going from this, this extreme to that extreme, is not needed. I’ve known many people who come and tell Me, “Mother, how can You cleanse me? I am such a sinner.” “Now who are you? You are coming to Me. If I am your Mother, then I will have to worry [UNCLEAR] for you. You just don’t worry. Don’t you worry about anything.” But still they go on. They write letters after letters to Me, such big letters saying what sins they have committed. Now what am I to do with those? This sin is finished and gone, because the sins are on this side, all of them, so-called sins which are all forgiven. They are to be forgiven. God is very kind. He is the ocean of forgiveness. He forgives you. If you ask for forgiveness He forgives. Even for asking He forgives you. [unclear] This is one side, [which] is this side. The another side is this side, is where some people get very much egoistical about it, and the another side is where you feel very [great pain]. Both sides are useless. If the extremes are to be avoided, just surrender.

Then you are in the centre and the whole thing opens out, the ego and superego. Ego and superego, both of them are sucked inside. And you become [one with] your Creator and feel the beauty of your being which is nothing but it’s joy, it’s truth, it’s [that much]. It’s love. And I told you love has [unclear] these vibrations are nothing but they are love. If you touch anybody he feels the love. If you touch anybody he feels the love. It’s the love. Your talk and even thinking is [very] together, and like that you will be able to change this world, this society which has to get all its transformation into a newer society in which you will have no race, no religion – so-called religions ‒ no dividing countries. God never made all these nations or anything. He just created this earth, just that. Then we, the great thinkers, you see, wished and divided this one into different lands and then we call this as India and that as England and that [all]. And then very nicely, with all our people we started fighting. Then we had wars. See, not [UNCLEAR] human beings. So best thing is not to worry any more about that part and not to blame yourself. Now I know there are some people who [UNCLEAR] feel guilty, very much more guilt, but there’s nothing to feel guilty about. Both things are nothing but extremes. You have to just take your realization and you have to be universal. This is a very simple thing. Now…

Seeker: Can I ask you a question, please? Can I ask you a few questions, please?

Shri Mataji: Yes.

.
Seeker: First of all, one has nothing to do with the other. First one is that You’d like me to get realization I’ve seen [and You mentioned so].

Shri Mataji: Yes, of course.

Seeker: Now, I would like to think for a while that people must be at different stages of realization at the moment. People must be in different stages of spiritual consciousness. Therefore, is it possible for them not to feel, to have visions about that but not to be aware of it?

Shri Mataji: Not to be…?

Seeker: Not themselves to be aware of this state of mind.

Shri Mataji: There are many realized souls like this in this country…

Seeker: In other words, yes….

Shri Mataji: There are many realized souls in this country. You see, I have seen many realized. We had one, is William Blake. Blake is a realized soul. And, but you see, these realized souls are suffering [further] all their life through [UNCLEAR]. But there are some people who did suffer from this point of view. They are realized souls, and they are different types, and they are aware of it that they are realized and they are [unclear]. But they do not [dream/raise]. They [touch] somebody and the person gets cured. So they think this is some spirit it has given. Or they do not know how to become. They don’t know what they have done. They have no idea about what is inside them, how it has worked. They have no idea. I mean, there are two types of curing, curing people also. One type, who deals with the spirits; it’s a wrong thing. This one is wrong. But another type is by this power, only they have it. There are many realized souls in this country and many realized souls are born in this country. This is a specially blessed country. But the problem with them is that they do not know anything. They are just aware that they are different from others, you see, that they are a different type, that they are awakened people, that they are aware. But they are not master of the knowledge, you see?

Seeker: Exactly.

Shri Mataji: So the thing is that they have to become master. They have to know each and everything. And I am going to tell you all the secrets. Everything I am going to tell you, so why are you not express [this/it] into wishes, that you should know what you have got, what is your property, how to deal with it. You are naive about it. So the whole knowledge has to be whole [UNCLEAR] is to be achieved, that variety. And there are many like that. But they have a problem, as I said once, that, that you see, they got this Self-realization without even knowing. It’s very hard for them to believe that they can really get [this state] within. Secondly, when they were born-realized, you see, there were different people from the society, most of them. So they were attacked. They were never liked by others, and people thought they were rude, different type, and all that. They were calling them, you see, mad people and all that. So they developed a cynicism. And this cynicism gives a funny type of reaction, towards, [everything material/everyone, [even] towards [pain]. I found that. And they come round, but they first of all waste their [unclear] energy before they find it. So also they have a [unclear] because of this cynicism, you see. And they, because you see, you develop a mechanism by which – cynicism is nothing but a mechanism ‒ by which you face the world. Then when you come before Me also, you face Me in the same way. It’s a mechanism that is built in. So I would say that for them, I am here; they are there. Actually/should we agree [unclear]? I told them, “I am very proud of you.” And they are here for this purpose. So there is nothing to be [upset about]. It’s a very good thing, and accept Me to be your master [UNCLEAR]. Now, what is the second question?

Seeker: The second question is that as I always [UNCLEAR]. And that’s a free process in [unclear] keeps around you. Certainly [unclear]. Could You do? And don’t ask…

Shri Mataji: No. There also, the same path is there, Buddhism. You see, Buddha, Buddha also had His realization through Sahaja Yoga only. His Kundalini rose and he got His realization, enlightenment, as you say. But Buddha is a different style of personality which was created specially for this purpose. He is the one who conquers His ego [INAUDIBLE] [vibrations] are from this side. Because if you see the ego is on the other side. So Buddha’s position is about here. So He stays there and He is there.

Now Buddhist people [UNCLEAR], Buddha [isn’t there]. Buddhists are the same, Christians are the same, Hindus are the same and even then what you call the Zen style is the same. All of them are just the same style. None of them are [not good], none of them were [UNCLEAR]. There were many Christians who were realized souls. I’ve read some books and I could see that they were realized souls, but they were ill-treated by the Christians who were in charge of the Church. There are Hindus who were realized souls. Even, you see all the Shankaracharya’s [behalf/disciples] are not [realized souls]. All the Shankaracharyas are not good, except for one who was there, but he was taken out. He is taken out. You see, anybody who is a realized is thrown out. They are [afraid] because they are challenged. You see, these organizations are run by people who are people who have no faith. So I have not met one person I have been to, say, I will tell you the name of the greatest of Buddhist leaders is Thich Nhat Hanh, and the another one is Dalai Lama. I have met both of them. They have been sitting next to Me and telling Me all this. Both of them are not realized. They are possessed. What can we do? They are. But they begin listening to Me. The things that they tell you about, it’s not realization. Realized persons talk to Me differently. [He says/ Let’s say] that [realized persons/a realized person] [talk/talks] in this way that his interests are different. Let’s say, for example, I can quote Kabir. Kabir says, [Hindi] “I get twenty-five of them together and put them into one head. This is the mind of a [realized soul].” He thinks of the collective consciousness.

But these people will say that, “We will know who is going to be the next Lama.” Who cares who is going to be the next Lama? You see, whosoever may be. They see all this things. Their third eye is nothing but a devil, is telling them that that one should be the Lama. Do you know that poor country of Tibet is squatted completely by these people. They live like lords and today even they are given alms. And you’ll be amazed, sometimes [UNCLEAR]. So keep yourself open. I am just telling you the one who is Buddhist can be quite dangerous, as dangerous as any Hindus, or Muslims or anyone, who have even got lot of the [unclear] until, you’ll be amazed. The other day we had a girl from Italy and there is a Buddhist who has come to Bombay. He wrote to them that, “We don’t touch, you see, anything but a marble floor. So you put marble floor for us.” They couldn’t imagine, for an ascetic who was willing to have a marble floor. Ascetics should be able to sleep on the street. They must have a marble floor. So poor these young people, you see, [from/in] the foreign, places [from/in] the Western countries, where there is only much naivety/their parents won’t be much delighted They worked hard for one year and collected money to [fulfill] his desire, worked for this horrible parasite, this [unclear]. And what did he do, do you know? He makes them bow to him one thousand [times], one thousand [times]. And one of them, a person felt tired that she has lost the conscious because you see, it was too much. This is what they do. But how will you know if they are true or not? Not by any [unclear], by their talking. They can talk very big. They can be very great speakers. Still it is coming to [unclear]. But how they can give you realization, or whether they are true or not. And for your benevolence and for your growth you take your realization first and then you can see. Do not criticize Me because I am telling you this. I have to tell you the truth. I am not here for any position. I am telling you the truth, and you will know the truth yourself when you’ll realize with your vibrated awareness. Immediately, you’ll know.

Now, I will give you a simple example. My granddaughter, she’s [about] five years of age and she [UNCLEAR] more and there was a lama sitting there with his head was shaved and with, what you call, a maxi was wearing and was sitting down. And everybody was touching his feet. Even my son-in-law went and touched his feet. My daughter also touched. Now this girl couldn’t bear it. She went and pushed the “holy man”. She said, “What do you mean? Only by shaving your head and wearing this kind of a dress you can not make others touch your feet. You are not a realized soul.” Five-year-old girl just told him off. And it is only possible if you are really realized and you have [true/full] conviction. Even a small little child [can do that, they will immediately say what] is catching in you. You have seen that little girl who is My granddaughter. She was telling everyone, “This is catching, that is catching, that is catching”; even a two-year-old little granddaughter. It is a fact. So you become that in Sahaja Yoga. Now do not decide because you see here the problem is Christianity was a headache for these people. They realized that Christianity was nonsense and these churches were nonsense. So they took to anything that they know, Buddhism, they took to Hinduism, they took to another “ism”. None of this isms have worked. Take it from Me. All of them are nothing but organizations, just like your church. Some of them are even worse, especially the Hindu temples where you can go and purchase Ganga. If you have to purchase Ganga in India it is not very good. For [wash the/washing] sins. The Ganges River was angry because of that [name]. Horrible people, I tell you, in the name of religion, in the name of God they have bhoots on. We [have/had] one gentleman here; he was going to a lama in Tibet. Where is he from?

Sahaja Yogi: [unclear]

Shri Mataji: He was beaten up by them. They talk of love; they’ll beat him up. They had some priests; they are sadists, [I tell you].. And then he said, “I had no money. So they, they used me for beating up.” Very nice. They said, “Those who have no money should work or should accept beatings, or those who have money should give money.” Is this Buddhism, by any chance? Have you done any registration? Actually, you’ll be amazed, in all these organizations Buddha Himself is angry and He is going to come down [on them]. With all these organizations which run after Christ, Christ Himself is angry. [He doesn’t care]. Now think of yourself; now you are a gentleman. You think like this that supposing you have founded something and the people are doing just the opposite towards what you have founded. Then how furious you are going to be? In the same way all these deities are [angry]. So for every open-minded man it is necessary to forgive and forget [all/only]. Just forget all. If I had seen any sense anywhere I wouldn’t bother.

Now you’ll be surprised/[saying that] Zen is such a great thing. Zen is nothing but meditation in Sahaja Yoga only. If you read Zen that there were only twenty-six kashapa, only twenty-six realized souls. But the Zen, the head of the Zen I have met, and he is not a realized. Now what should I do? Should I not tell you this? If they were realized I would really have gone, even climb to them. You wouldn’t believe, I have gone to see realized souls. Seven miles I have climbed. And I have met very great people, but they are hiding themselves. They do not want to come to the cities, [unclear] the very bad time they faced. They do not want to be gurus because they think you will crucify them. If you have crucified Christ they don’t know what you are going to do. Already they have suffered. These are all money-making propositions and there will be surrounding the cities, [unclear]. In some way people harm the Spirit. It’s only I who has ventured to come down and tell you the truth. And I would say you stand by the truth. You’ll find it out. Do not deny it because I am saying this, but you just find it. You just find it. It is for your experience. Because why are you a loser for anything? After all, you are not identified with Buddha. You are not identified with Buddhist society or any society. You are identified with your Self to have the [blessings] of Sahaja Yoga. Achieve it for you. You have to achieve it for your own, and do not identify with any organizations. We are not going to finish [ourselves/our search] for anything like that. Because supposing, I agree you must have spent lot of time with that. Doesn’t matter. You are not going to miss it. That’s a good experience. When you’ll get another Buddhist society, then you’ll not like too much. Buddha if you know, you’ll become an expert also, identified.

Seeker: I am not, I am not, I’m not, I am not a believer in Buddhism in particular…just it so happened that I told You about/I’ve fallen apart. [ [But I actually see the nonsense and agree with these things]

Shri Mataji: Yes, yes, and now you will know Buddha better. When you’ll be realized, my child, then you will know Buddha. Unless and until you are realized you will not know Buddha, what are His visions. He knows you. It’s a fact I just tell you, without [your] realization. Actually it’s the mistake of all the people who came on this earth before Me. They were real gurus, but you have not even known your Spirit. That’s why they said all these things to you. If they had known that you are not even awakened they would not have [unclear] means it is difficult enough even when it’s done for people who are. This was the difference and that’s why you see, I say this in My human realization that [I’ll continue doing].

Seeker: Just one question that [I have to make which is better asking/I would like if it’’s possible to ask You] that as far as what you said about realization and also about enlightenment, in the same way the question is this: What should an enlightened what the, an enlightened person’s lifestyle when a person becomes realized…

Shri Mataji: When a person becomes?

Seeker: When a person becomes realized…

Shri Mataji: When a person is…

Seeker: Enlightened …

Shri Mataji: You see, that is.

Seeker: Then what should his lifestyle be? What, what sort of person should he be innate, should he be innate/behind this situation?

Shri Mataji: You see, the, the behavior automatically changes. I will give you an example. We had a doctor; he’s not here. He got his realization by another doctor, who gave him realization and [UNCLEAR]. All right. He’s there, all right, he’s there. So, now, he gave realization to a doctor/and this doctor came in the worst condition because I must say he must have been a great seeker in this life and he was a genuine person but out of fashion ‒ he was doing lots of things ‒ and so he said, “All right, let me go and have a drink.” He went to have a drink and when he took one sip he started vomiting. You see, the, your religion is enlightened and you just do not feel like doing it. And he just gave up. Then he said, “All right, let me have a girl with me.” Because there’s a fashion; you must have a girl every day out. It’s like another parasite. Every day girl you must take out and give her food. I mean, it’s all nonsense. If you are earning your money honestly, why should you waste this money with such people? But it doesn’t matter. He took a girl and all that and he took her down there. And he said, “But just/this I felt so funny with her.” And I just said, “You just get out from here and I just can’t bear it.” And he just did it, you see?

So what happens is that the whole/we go [religious with experience], we do not waste any effort, there is no concession to/of it. As far as I am concerned I can tell you this, that I do not rationalize anything. I mean, I do not work through the wise and what we have [unclear]. But what My stomach itself gets, it automatically works, you see? Supposing I have to meet someone, I go to somebody’s house. Now I feel quite [UNCLEAR] in Sahastrara [unclear] and then I find the person is mad. And then I find it to be very [UNCLEAR]. So you see, you don’t have to rationalize. Your whole being becomes so sensitive. [Sensitive to pollution, that gives you that trust that somebody [unclear], that somebody catches] [indeed]. Right and wrong, this sense you can get only after vibrations. Like a man like Christ, imagine standing by the side of a prostitute, defending her. It’s only possible for a person who is a realized soul; is a fact. Otherwise whatever you know, right and wrong, is relative. Absolute right and wrong can be known only after realization. That’s why I say deep in meditation and enlightenment your whole being becomes sensitive. Now I never told the people who were taking drugs to [give up as it is wrong]. They just did it. Because you start enjoying yourself. There is one, that comic book he gave me. Which one is that?

Sahaja Yogi: [unclear]

Shri Mataji: Ha, in that there is a character who is a realized soul. You see that. That’s one realized soul in that book. And his behavior is different from the rest of them. And then you can see a realized soul. I could see that one there and very enjoyable [unclear].You see, so the life patterns of a realized soul are different patterns [unclear].

Seeker: What a realized soul must do then, if he finds work in some place of work which is, which is under someone’s position that he is asking you to do something unspiritual, some work which is not Christian or not right. Means should that realized person…

Shri Mataji: No, he would not do that, normally. You see, but somebody…

Seeker: He would not do that.

Shri Mataji: No, he would not. But what happens, I will tell you. It happens like this, I would say, that supposing you are a realized soul, now and you just don’t feel like doing this, you see. But if you just try to do it because you have been doing it, you just try to value it. Soon after you see, because that practice that you are doing, you may lose your vibrations. [unclear] That’s the punishment: you lose your vibrations. [unclear] I have someone…Sheila has come? Where is she? We have one girl here. She is naturally very good and she got her realization. And then just out of curiosity she went to one of the [UNCLEAR] the first I knew, we have some more over there. She also went there and did like this. She lost her vibrations. When she came to Me she fell at My feet and I saw the whole Kundalini [unclear] immediately I asked her whether [unclear]. “I should not go.” She felt it, that it is so /foolish of coming to [unclear].

Seeker: That’s a [rather/a matter of] justice.…I mean following what You’re saying it was quite [unclear] having people who start drinking wine [UNCLEAR].I was going to say about alcohol. And if you have a very moderate, very, very moderate circumstance I should say seven lemonades with that, seven [unclear]

Shri Mataji: That goes out/on/up. You see, I will not say, “Don’t take alcohol.” I’ll say even you go to pub, but you’ll come back [again] with a five hundred miles. I will not say, ‘’Don’t.’’ I will not. I am not the person to say, “Don’t”, no.

Seeker: That’s what I’m asking.

Shri Mataji: No. But you will just give up yourself, because it’s [wrong/rotten], because it goes against your awareness. Even this much can go, this one also doing the [unclear]. Now do you know that your forefathers, they’re known in our country specially that Englishman is known by are a little thing moderate, but today they are the [remission] they were the pioneers of this moderation. They started with this. And their third generation is now all the time sitting in the pub. So who is responsible? The one who started this moderation. That is the beginning of the end.

Seeker: But they [were very moderate].

Shri Mataji: True, they were very moderate, but that’s how everything [has] started. And there is no end to it. So why do we/need it? You see, truth has no compromise. But you don’t have to worry because you start quitting. You are so much drunk in the joy that you don’t want to drink. I mean, you are so spirited. Actually the trouble is the “spirit” is a wrong word for alcohol. Either you don’t use it for the Spirit that is Atma, or don’t use it for alcohol. I mean, you are so full of spirit; maybe that is the reason the spirit word must have reason. Because when people ask Me, “Why don’t you drink?” I said, “I’ve been I am so much over-drunk, that if you try your drunkenness with Me and I can [unclear] in nineteen years.”

Seeker: Is that/there a way back to the cause?

Shri Mataji: Aah?

Seeker: Is there really hope to get back to the cause?

Shri Mataji: Yes.

Seeker: Or we have gone wild/ get wise?

Shri Mataji: No, no. You see, because such a lot [it is/has been told]. Death is here. Because of death, you see, we know we have to die, all right? Because of that knowledge within us we try to do something bad. Supposing that we are eternal, then we would not do. All right?

First time you’ll be able [unclear]. Just put your hands towards Me [unclear/in a simple way]. Put your both the feet… Now what is it in a humble way we have to get it for ourselves. This is our right. It’s our right to get it. Just take out your shoes. Now if I tell someone to take out shoes people are [annoyed]. You see, you should not, because this is just we are, everybody is doing it. So just rest, you’re just put into it. [Gavin?] See this/ for yourselves.

Now those who are [UNCLEAR] . And those who are [unclear] should get their realization. They are. Enjoy yourselves. Close your eyes and enjoy yourselves. Feel within you /are more relaxed, you see. Those who have [UNCLEAR]. Have you got cool breeze in your hand? Cool breeze in your hand? Have you got it? No? All right. Just put your hands towards Me. Close your eyes. Enjoy it, enjoy it. Just enjoy it. Just enjoy yourselves. [unclear] And/you do not think about it. It should work. That is the thing you must have. You must have that; it is your right to have it. You have been seekers. You have been seekers. You must get it. If you haven’t got it, doesn’t matter; we’ll work it out. We’ll work it out, definitely. Close your eyes. Enjoy yourselves. Sit comfortably. Sit most comfortably. This is the point in it. You must sit very comfortably and enjoy yourselves. Just enjoy. Put your hands on your lap like this. You’ll feel hot also. Next time I will tell you what happens after realization. [UNCLEAR]. Some of you might find that, “I did something which people shouldn’t do.” [unclear] You just enjoy yourself [UNCLEAR]. You are fine?

Seeker: Yes, Mother.

Shri Mataji: I said those people who get twinkling in their eyes when they close them can keep their eyes open. [unclear] and there’s a physical thing that happens when it climbs in Vishuddhi/valuation that/then it gives more chance to understand. It’s a very smooth [line]. Some people do not feel at all how it works out and suddenly you feel silent and the cool breeze starts flowing. But as I said it, this is an experience absolute, [unclear] people/comes to you spontaneously. But you have to carry it out/stabilize it [unclear] individually/you have to mature. Can you close your eyes? Are you getting cool breeze? Close your eyes. Close your eyes. Close your eyes. You’ll feel better like this. Are you all right? Close your eyes. Just pay attention to yourself. Just enjoy yourself. Put your attention to your heart. Enjoy yourself. Close your eyes. Do not pay attention outside, anywhere. This is the time for you to pay attention to yourself. You have paid too much attention outside. Put your attention to yourself inside. Please, put your attention to yourself inside.

I’ll give you one more method that I have [made] for you. But you keep your eyes closed. [INAUDIBLE] Some of the Sahaja Yogis have to get up to give seats to the people who are coming. Now, there are some people who are realized in Sahaja Yoga, and they can come and test you, because those who are realized are to be tested again, and that’s how you would know whether you are realized or not. And then you are realized; then you can also see for yourself and all that. Please put your hands towards Me like this. Mister/Rustom, all other people have to be here. Please let them come.

Yes. Now if you could be seated in your seats and don’t you worry. These people will just come and see it, because from their hands the vibrations are going and they know how to maneuver it, and they will also teach you how to do it. It looks little funny for you to begin to see how they have to use their hands, but from their hands the vibrations are flowing, from all the fingers. But they how to maneuver and what is to be done. So you shouldn’t have any objection for that, which you will realize later on gradually how it is done. Are you all right?

Seeker: (Inaudible)

Shri Mataji: Those who have had gurus please raise your hands. Those who have had gurus before. Some gurus, if you have had gurus, raise your hand. Some sort of a guru or someone. Teacher, teacher. Maharishi, all those who you have been to Maharishi also?

Seeker: (Inaudible)

Shri Mataji: Why? Have you had anyone? Have you had any teacher?

Seeker: (Inaudible)

Shri Mataji: Now, have you got cool breeze in the hands? Yes, that’s your, that’s your guru. He is the one, you see, he is doing harm from the right side, he is the one who [ INAUDIBLE]. What about you?
(Dialogue between the seekers and Shri Mataji. [INAUDIBLE].

H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi