Our Understanding of Sahaja Yoga, Seminar

London (England)

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Our Understanding of Sahaja Yoga, London, 1978

Today if you ask me one or two questions it would be better and I will give you the answers because this is between us – those who have had the experience and those who are practically there, and there are very few new people here I see. But those who are at least acquainted with the vibrations and all that, should ask me questions to begin with, because then otherwise I will be tackling new persons later on. Hmm.

Yogi: Mother you said in Caxton Hall that if a person doesn’t speak to their mother for a long time…can you elaborate on that theme again please.

Shri Mataji: You see, you are born from a mother, alright? You are not born hanging from a tree, and neither you are thrown from the heavens and suddenly you are found, born on this Earth. You are born from a mother in her womb. Her blood flows into you for nine months. You live upon her. You are a part and parcel of her being for nine months, which is the most important time of your life. Now, she is there to give you, first, the sense of security. In a mother’s womb a child feels secured. If the mother is upset it has an effect on the child. If there’s something wrong with her then that is affected on the child, in the sense, physically, also. It’s such a deep relationship exists between you and your mother that I’ll have to write a book to tell you how much it is deep within you.

But, within us, the power of Kundalini is the power of a Mother and not of a Father. The Father is the Witness as a Spirit and the Mother is the Kundalini, and the Kundalini has to rise. Now it is the Mother in you that is the Kundalini and your own mother. It very much depends what kind of relationship you have with your own mother.

Supposing you do not know how to love your own mother, you can never love your mother country, you can never love it. That is the beginning. The training starts there only, with your mother. If that point is lacking then you cannot have a full blooming of that love. Now maybe the mother has not been a very good mother possibly. There are according to Sanskrit words, as I told you, there cannot be a bad mother – kumata – but sometimes she could be bad also. So the idea of a ‘bad mother’ is more brought forth by the intervention of law into mother child relationship. When the mother is being punished by law for correcting her child or doing something, the artificiality starts; when people can sue their mothers. The responsibility of the law is not to disturb the natural relationships. If they start disturbing the natural relationship the artificiality starts. And that’s why, in the countries where law has taken charge of children and such things, without understanding the basic thing that it is a natural thing to love your child. Instead of that, if they had encouraged mothers who were more loving, more kind, if they had even training to mothers, how to be more kind and gentle, if they had given more impetus to people to be good mothers. Instead of having beauty contests if they had ‘good mother contests’. If motherhood had been upheld by political and economic institutions, then it would have been much better.

But the whole society is turning to self-destruction, so the law, first, takes over. So the child is quite sure of itself. Now an eighteen year old boy in the family, who gets the dole (unemployment payments), then he thinks no end of himself. He answers back his mother; he talks in a very rude manner to the mother. It’s alright to say you have done it for an eighteen year old boy but you don’t know that [maybe] he is the eldest boy; the other children in the family follow him up. So they pick it up when they are even very young. The idea of giving money to boys at that age also is extremely harmful because when he gets the money the other children think they must also get some money, so they start charging mother for the work that they are doing – you must pay 5p for bringing a glass of water for the mother.

Then the mothers now are of a different type. I mean, there are so many mothers who say that, “It is not a thing that we should love our children; it’s not natural”! Artificial has become natural and natural has become artificial.

How is it, within these [last] ten or fifteen years, suddenly the mothers have become so funny? Now, because of these pressures, what happens is that we develop a feeling against our mother. We start judging our mother and father. We should never judge them. We are not to judge them because we have chosen them. They are there just as part and parcel of ourselves. Supposing your nose is broken: Do you start judging yourself, “My nose is broken, my nose is broken”? Do you discard your nose? In the same way your parents are. You cannot discard your parents! But the whole society is working like this. It’s a vicious circle.

Now, if I say, “You go and talk to your mother,” then you can say, “My mother is not a good person. She is this and that.” Then I have to say, “Alright, then you forgive her.” Then you don’t like it. You would expect me to tell you, “Alright, just go and bash her.” You would be pleased if I tell you like that, some of you would – “Go and beat her up!” But I would not say like that because that’s not the way Sahaja Yogis are going to work away.

You must know that the whole society is in a whirlwind, it’s a whirlwind, so somebody has to steady oneself and stop and try to change the winds. And that’s why a Sahaja Yogi has to stand up and understand that respect and reverence of parents is important. But it is an actual thing, because if you are not good with your mother your left side is weak; you have seen it on the vibrations. Whatever I say you can see it on your vibrations. You will be the loser, so forgive her. Know that she has given you birth. Maybe if she has been harsh to you, angry with you or done something – forgive her. And you will be amazed, you can win her over, it’s not difficult because by your goodness to her, by your over-goodness towards her, relatively, it will work. And maybe, exceptionally, one person may be this thing (kumata) but you cannot make a rule out of that; exceptionally one may be. But if you have to change the society, the whole thinking, somebody has to stand up.

And it is a chakra within you, you know, where it touches a point of Void, where the left-side touches the point of Void. That is a centre, a very important centre for a mother, which [it] makes. And do you know it is very near the centre of existence, because your existence depends on that. Supposing a child had no mother: he can never be a good husband, very difficult for him to be a good husband because all the womanhood, all the kindness, the sublimity, the greatness of women, is known through your mother to begin with; or a woman who does not have a mother, can never be a good wife or could not be a good mother herself.

 

All these things are there so we have to stop it and change it. This is the point. Sahaja Yogis must know that we have to change and transform ourselves and that is the point [where] they feel bad. We are not only responsible for our change but we have to bring about the change in the whole world, where the society is getting destroyed, the human beings are getting destroyed, so we have to stand up. So we have to change our way of thinking.

What’s wrong in talking to your mother? She’s not going to kill you if you talk to her. Why don’t you talk to her? Because you hate her, you want her to feel bad. I mean, you don’t go and hit your mother. This is the only way you can really be harsh to her, is not to talk to her – [so] she feels rejected by her own child whom she has created. God must be feeling that way also the way we reject Him.

Everybody’s left side improves now.

But try to love and you will enjoy, because loving is the greatest thing. To love someone is adoration, absolute adoration, is reverence. If you love someone then you know that it is so great, it makes you so great to love someone. It’s a very great feeling that, “I love someone”; it’s like a Lord one feels, “Oh I love this one and I love so many and so many are there!” And that person need not love me, I mean I don’t think all the Sahaja Yogis love me so much as I love them, maybe. But I’m very proud of my Sahaja Yogis and I love them.

 

This is the most joy-giving thing is to love, yourself. To be able to love, that’s the greatest ability a person should have – is to love others. And in love, forgiveness is the most; that’s why Christ said forgiveness is the greatest weapon. And what do you achieve by not talking? I mean, what do you achieve? Let us see the other side of it; what do we achieve by not talking to someone? Rationally. It’s a sweet method of course, if sometimes children do, “I am not talking to you,” you see. Then you can have a little play about that. But it should be just a play. If it is a serious stuff it’s nonsense. It’s just to play about, is very good that, “I’m not talking to you, I’m not going to talk to you for some time,” he knows that. But then it is not serious, it is just to bring out certain points and it’s nice that mother should come and cuddle you and persuade you and try to help you – that’s a good thing. But the way we are serious about it is something wrong.

Yogi: Can you tell us what the vibrations are?

Shri Mataji: Vibrations, as I said, that is the manifestation of the Spirit. But it is a very vague way of expressing it. Now see, if there’s a nice flame before me, this candle has been enlightened. Now what does it do? It gives you light. Alright, but how does it give you light? By throwing light towards you, by emitting light. It is the emitting, of pulsation from the Self. This light, this is light. Actually there is sound, there is light; very high frequency sound – very high frequency. Actually many types of sounds are mixed in. There’s is magnetism in this, in these vibrations. It has all the five elements -the subtle of all the five elements (tanmatras) inside these vibrations only. They are talking, they are telling you, they are guiding you, they are helping you. It’s because the Spirit is working through them. Like this light that you take in your hand: you go in the darkness, and you see that there is an impediment in between [and] you have to cross it. So you get the idea with this light. The light is doing that for you.

So, when the Spirit pulsates in your conscious mind, in your conscious mind, then it is a Self-realised personality. But in the unconscious it is there, all the time working. Actually the Spirit Itself comes out. It’s as big as your thumb is. But you can contain your thumb in your heart. That is the reflection of the God Almighty within us, because heart receives that image within itself, it is pulsating and is emitting the Knowledge through our unconscious. Spirit is an unconscious being till we are realised. Once we are realised it becomes conscious, it starts emitting itself and pulsating. And what is Spirit? Is God Almighty Himself, in a miniature form, which is reflected within us. The more we clean our heart, which represents all the seven chakras within us. There are seven auras around our heart. All the seven chakras which are here in the Sahastrara, the seats are there, and all the seven chakras that are there, within us, have seven auras around our heart and when all of them are clear-cut, absolutely clear, pure, integrated then the complete emission starts, of those vibrations.

They are much more than I can explain because, say, the other day, a lady was writing a letter to me and she was saying that, “Mother I am so sorry. I have my accommodation problem is at the climax…” and, very frustrating letter you see, to begin with and absolutely as if she was going to be doomed, the way she was writing it! And, I mean, such a trivial thing like that, but she was very concerned because she didn’t know where to go. And first half of the letter was like that. Second half was this that, “Mother, just now I have received a letter from the authorities that they have allotted me a very beautiful place” in such and such place!! (laughing) Now, I would say this is all vibrations because it is All-pervading now, and you become one with the All-pervading Power so how it helps! Because when she was writing to me, the vibrations were feeling it, what she was writing from the paper, so they communicated to the All-pervading Power. And as the Angels, or you can say the Deities, also, can understand and they must have thought, “Why bother Mother with all this nonsense, better give her the letter as soon as possible, finish it off!” So in the second letter she says, “I’m such a fool to write this but I must write to you to give you the night and the day of my life.” So she wrote to me. So, it can work out that way, that quick.

So the vibrations are actually the things which are the doers and the enjoyers. They are the one, who enjoy, also, if they find a very good Self-realised soul coming. Then you just feel the Self-realised soul and you say, “Oh very good. Come along, come along. Just have it” Everybody starts enjoying that joy that’s coming from that person. And that is what it is, that you start enjoying that beauty in that person through the vibrations. It’s a multi-dimensional thing – though it looks so simple, that you are feeling in the hand, that’s all. So it is a multi-dimensional thing just like the God Almighty. And, for your information, it is only He does everything. So only the vibrations work out everything. We really do not do anything whatsoever – [if we think we do] we are living in a fool’s paradise! For example, a tree dies and you chain it over and make a nice seat for me to sit down – so what? Tree is dead and you make a seat and you say, “Oh, we have built this, we have done that!” Nothing! What do you do? Can you sprout even a small, little seed? You cannot.

But these vibrations only, which connect you with the All-pervading Power, which are part of the All-pervading power, these pervading Almighty’s eyes, you can say – they are the ones who look after each and every minute thing in this whole world. Can you think of such a multi-dimensional thing? Now you have seen how vibrations work on people, how they dissolve even the thick bones and how they bring out the Kundalini here and how you see the softness on your head. Just you cannot explain how, because they only do everything. They have the universal communication centres and they have universal broadcasting stations, they have universal TV centres there. Everything is there. In short, you just copy them a little bit and you think you are doing something but you really don’t do anything whatsoever. That’s why it is said that Brahma – this is the expression of Brahma, these vibrations are the Brahma – is the only Truth, the rest is all avidya, is all a maya, is just an illusion. We live in illusions you see. He is the Enjoyer, He is the Doer, you are just in between to see Him. It would be like this mic (microphone) thinking that he’s giving the lecture of Sahaja Yoga – it’s really like that!!

So to explain what is vibrations may not be so simple in all its details. But the overall idea I have given to you. Is it alright?

Rustom: Mother, I wanted to ask what is the function for the Left-Swadhishthana in all of us because it’s been catching all weekend.

Shri Mataji: You all had it? Alright. I’ll ask ?? and then this. What’s that? Who asked me there?

New person: You were talking about the mother and child’s relationship with their parents and you said that maybe you don’t like them, but that’s too bad, we have chosen them. Would you elaborate on that?

Shri Mataji: We have chosen our parents. Oh we have definitely chosen. I mean, most of you have, because mediocre people, those who are absolutely mediocre, just like very primitive souls. We should not say, ‘primitive people’ but we can say ‘primitive souls’ because there’s a difference between the two. A person may be, say the king you had here, who killed his seven wives, he was a very primitive soul. He might be a king but he was a very primitive soul. So the primitive souls, they are not so particular as to who is their father or mother, and they also, sometimes, choose horribly primitive people as their parents, also, sometimes. So both the extremes choose – those who are very primitive and those who are very advanced always choose. And you being the seekers, you have also chosen your parents before taking your birth, definitely, through the All-pervading Power. So many of you have had parents because of your previous relationships with them. You might have seen that if we attach to some people like a mother, sometimes like a father, in this lifetime also you might be feeling that way. Because in India also the situation is a little funny but still in India it’s very common that you start feeling for somebody as if she is your mother. Yesterday I saw that Starkey of your BBC1 feeling for a lady, something like that. So imagine that Starkey, such a starkingly (sic) dry person, having that kind of feeling for an old lady! So the reason is that he might have been connected with her in his previous lives and might have been his own mother, like that. So maybe you might have felt about someone like that in previous lives that, “Oh, I wish she was my mother.” Maybe she was the mother of your friend or someone and you thought that she was a very good mother, so you have it. You want that mother? Alright? Now when you see her you get frightened of her. So you will not ask that type, now you will ask for another type. So you have to go through many types, but better do one completely so that you don’t have to come back to the same. So better know about one completely by loving that person then you are finished with one type; you get another type then.

So coming to his problem of Swadhishthan, Left. Are you all having catching here?

(Yogis/new people respond. Barely audible)

Shri Mataji: I am happy you could see all that. Actually, Gregoire told me that, “Mother, if you come from the very first day then the attention will be on you and then we want to talk among ourselves about things. And there are some people who have not known much about Sahaja Yoga and we would like to discuss.” I said, “Good idea, you go ahead. I think it’s a good idea and you should do it.”

Gregoire: No, not exactly that Mother, this I can’t say!

Shri Mataji: But what I’m trying to say is that your intentions were good that you were going to see for yourself, meet everyone and all of you suggested that to me. I mean, everybody said that, “We would like to discuss among ourselves.”

Now. So there are children of different types. You said, “Let’s see now what happens.” But it’s a good idea, very good idea, because I would like you to mature like this and to understand, because this is a very good thing that has happened. Now, I will say why it is good? Alright? Because, supposing you are all the time under my saree, hidden down here, you are never going to face these horrible things. And some of you, even today, do not believe that there are [dead] spirits. It’s better to face it. Better to face it. Now, there are also people who get possessed, also there, and they know what it is. But those who were never possessed do not believe in it. Actually they do believe because I am saying it, but actually inside they do not believe that there are spirits. So it was nice to face them here, first of all, alright to know.

Then secondly you are not to remain all the time under my saree. This is called as palla in Sanskrit language. So you have to face it. And it’s a very nice thing that has happened that you have been able to face it. Now you are over that. Now, any place you go to, all the devils will run away from there! Not only that but nobody of this kind would be going to those places again.

So, that’s a very good thing that has happened and that you have taken it up upon yourselves. It’s a very big thing. I liked it. I really liked this thing, that you wanted to take it up and come down here and that you could feel it.

Now, I would say that none of you are harmed; none of you is harmed actually; none of you. Only thing you felt that, because you are in collective consciousness. You must feel the aim of your life, you must know. And also Left Swadhishthana is caught by people who indulge in unauthorised ways of God. And so you recognise that, all of them who have been here have been unauthorised. Without any argument you know. So, that’s a training, and which you understand it, first of all.

Secondly none of you are caught up now. Just if you see, none of you have got anything of Swadhishthana left (remaining). You never catch actually. After all, you are the instrument so you are the indicator. You just indicate. If you could just learn how to be a witness to that indication you will never feel [that] you catch.

Now, what you have felt catching is the Left Vishuddhi actually: is that you are feeling guilty about it, that, “Why were we panicked?” (laughing) So if you say one thing, the other thing comes up. “What was there to be panicked?” (laughing) So the Left Vishuddhi is catching and showing. See the joy! Sahaja Yoga is such a joker I tell you.

Yogini: We thought – why were we here – last night!

Shri Mataji: You must have been blaming the place. You must have been saying that, “Oh, Why did we come to this place? We could have gone to some other place and worked it out. All these people have been here!” No, you have to work very hard. You have to go to much worse places than these are. You are soldiers and soldiers have to be on the battlefield.

Yogi: We won a few battles I think.

Shri Mataji: You have! You have won it! But you are not enjoying the victory because you are involved into it. Once you know, “Yes we had to win. We have won it,” then you enjoy it. But on the contrary now you are feeling, “Why did we panic?” So this is it. You never catch. But the more you start thinking that, “We are catching,” then you really catch!

You are the Eternal Being. You are the one which cannot catch anything. You are the one which cannot be destroyed by anything. You are that, so how can you be caught up? Only change your attitude about things, and then you will know that you have not caught up. It’s all a drama: Mother not coming in the beginning, when she’s coming, it’s all a drama, nicely done. I was very happy and I was happy also that Gregoire suggested it. Though I don’t know if he suggested it with the idea of becoming a big soldier but he did become! His idea was good, very good idea. And it was not [only] his but everybody was feeling, I could read your mind that you all wanted to go beforehand and talk to the new people and tell them about it and give them a little lecture about it because they have not known much about Sahaj Yog. They have been much more with the others and some have come for the first time – for them it is all Greek and Latin! So it was a good idea. It was a very good thing and this is very much related to what I am going to say to you today. So now an I say? Oh this question, alright.

Is that a question (you want to ask) or taking out your badhas?

Yogi: Taking out.

(laughter)

Shri Mataji: No you are alright. That’s why you were responsible I think, so you were taking the responsibility too much and that’s why you were heated up. Now you are cool. Alright? You are not responsible for anything.

Yogi: At the last meeting at Caxton Hall a person I worked on someone and he was taking lots of drugs and this person kept recognising various people. He would say, “Oh yes I’ve seen that person before, Oh yes, I’ve seen that person before.” Now, do you think it’s because the person had been taking lots of drugs that they were going into the collective subconscious?

Shri Mataji: No, no, no. You see, he’s a drug man you can’t bother. I have seen some people who were drunk, quite funny they are, you see, somebody came to our house and they were given drinks, and he came to me and he said, “Oh you must meet Dr. Gan!” I said, “Alright,” then again he said, “You must meet Dr. Gan!” Again he said the same thing. I said, “Why is he saying?” So, I couldn’t understand. Then my husband told me something he’s heard from someone that, “You have to meet Dr. Gan,” so he’s telling you all the time the same. So you see these drunk or drug people are diseased – you are not to bother as to what he’s saying. There’s nothing, no truth in it, what he’s saying. If he says, “I recognise you,” it’s just maybe another trick of the bhoots. I don’t know, it’s nothing important. They can do anything and they can say anything. They are not normal people. They are sick, they are sick people – temporarily sick – so you cannot just trust them.

And there is a big craze in the West to say, I have heard people saying that, “I was in Egypt,” (in another life). I said, “How do you know?” “Because such and such person told me I was in Egypt.” I said, “What difference does it make whether you were in Egypt or you were in India or whatever?” Whatever you are today is the point! So they are paying money for that, to know what they were!! That is also there, it’s a big craze going on. But that’s not [the point that] you have to find out what you have been. I mean, how do you explain it, why people ask? I don’t know how to answer this question. I don’t understand, why should you ask anyone, “Where was I?” Then people make money on this kind of a nonsense if you have, “What was my previous birth?” Then somebody was telling me, “I was a pig in my last life,” He said, “Mother do you agree I was a pig?” (laughter) What should I say? Because if I say, “yes,” she may not like it, if I say, “no,” she may not like it. So I just avoided the question. But some sort of a thing like that. It’s very silly but human beings have funny ideas you know. Now, to be a pig! I mean, I would hate to be a pig! And the stench! But they wouldn’t mind calling themselves. I mean they are so funny that they would not mind calling themselves pigs when they are human beings you see!! I mean, you don’t know what to say.

I mean this is how it is. They are not to be taken seriously, very seriously. But it’s surprising that people are taken very seriously sometimes. We had a group of people coming to Gavin’s place and there was one, a realised soul who had become a drug addict, I don’t know how. He fell into very bad company. And the another fellow, whom he had regarded as something great, was really mad, absolutely mad! Isn’t it Gavin? He was so mad [that] I don’t know how this mad man was accepted by all this group as something great. He said, “He’s beautiful Mother, you don’t know, he’s beautiful,” I said, “But which part of the thing is beautiful? You just tell me.” He is irrelevantly talking, has no sense, and nothing! He’s mad, actual mad. You can see, he went into [a] lunatic asylum. I said, “I don’t understand the worshippers of lunacy.” This is like worshipping lunacy. You just cannot understand this also, so you just can’t say.

Next time, when you come to any such programmes or any place, now you ask me, “What should we do Mother with all the mad people?” And I will tell you what is to be done so that you will not have so much of mosquito drama. It was just a mosquito drama but I’m happy you have handled it very well and you have gone just there, where you were.

Now, today, I am going to tell you about Sahaja Yogi, as you are Sahaja Yogis now. You are reborn and you are realised-souls. And what we have to think about ourselves. That is a very important thing. After Sahaja Yoga, as you say that, you have got realisation, you have powers also, and lots of powers are there which you are not aware of, that powers we have got.

Now, the first power you have got is to correct yourself without conditioning yourself. Before this, if I said, “Don’t do this, don’t do that!” or you did that way, you were conditioned. Let’s see what is conditioning then you will understand it better. Say, it is all darkness and I cannot see anything inside out, I am just involved into my own body and I want to treat myself, then I put my instruments into wrong places. And the more wrong I do the more I try to re-correct it and it goes even worse and worse and worse. But supposing there is all light, and in you is the doctor who comes out of you. You get separated from that doctor completely and the doctor, who is not involved into your pains and into your troubles. Who can see through what’s wrong with you and he is the only well-wisher you have, then the operation is perfect. There is no conditioning because there is no wrong doing anywhere, he knows what to open, what to close, where to put it right. This doctor is the Witness in you, he’s your Spirit. When you start seeing through that Doctor, everything – you do not feel bad about it. Just now, as you said that, we are catching on the Left Swadhishthan, it means a terrible thing. It means that you are practising something which is unauthorised. That means it is blasphemous. You are doing something anti-God. Taking the responsibility upon yourself to do that. But you don’t feel bad about it because you are separated from yourself and you see that, “If I am catching on this, that means there is an effect of something on me by which this part of the centre is suffering and I must correct it.” And you start correcting it because you feel the pain within yourself. Supposing your Agya is catching here: means you are egoistical, you are dominating, you are non-forgiving, you are like a Hitler. But you don’t feel bad, once your Agya is catching, it’s paining, you say, “Take it out Mother my ego is colossal. Take it out!” You don’t mind saying that. If somebody had told this to Napoleon that, “You are egoistical,” he would have killed him. If he had told this to Hitler he would have finished him off. He carried on with all his vices, all his self-destroying things with great pride but a Sahaja Yogi cannot. So he has much more chances and much, much instruments to clear himself and to make himself alright, to change himself, without feeling hurt about it, because he’s no more identified with his vices. He’s not identified with his ego so he does not mind correcting himself, his ego. He can do that very easily without conditioning him.

You see, about religions, the greatest objection was that it conditions people, so they started the other side of it to decondition people. So the permissiveness and licentiousness, the other side, started. One was conditioning, the other was deconditioning. But if you cannot be conditioned what is the question of deconditioning?

So, for a Sahaja Yogi, there is the power given, of loving himself, that he corrects himself, in True Love. I don’t know how much, really, we know how much we have to love ourselves. If you truly love yourself, truly love yourself, then you would like to do something of which you are really proud, within your heart. Say, giving realisation to someone, is such a joy-giving thing within yourselves. You feel so happy about it. You may do hundreds of things in this world but you won’t feel that way as you would feel when you have given realisation to someone. Because it’s a living process which you can do. But when you really understand yourself, the need of your Self, then you really love yourself very well. Otherwise you really do not know what to do to love yourself. To love yourself means – you must know that this body of yours is a special body, now, because it is emitting vibrations, it’s a temple of God so respect it. Respect your body. Don’t be vulgar about your body.

We really had, like Mary Magdalene somebody in India, who came to us….(break in recording)… keep it clean, in the sense, yes I mean washing and this thing, you know that’s not the point. But even many people I have seen, are not aware that we get uncleanliness from others, like shaking hands. I mean, if there is someone, you have to shake hands, alright, if you are that much developed that you do not get unclean it’s alright. But if you are not, be careful before shaking hands. Better to say, “hello” and things. You have to be a little particular about it because I have seen people, when they shake their hands, they do receive more bad vibrations than [they] give good vibrations to others. Shaking hands or hugging others, or bringing your body to them only, the vibrations, one has to be very careful as to [see that] you do not spoil.

Then this body is nurtured on food: so food also, is important that a food that is cooked by a person who is loving, good, nice, is good for this body. But if you eat a food cooked by a person who is, say, a murderer (??) , immediately your body will revolt, your stomach will revolt against it and that’s why, to keep your stomach alright, try to avoid such places which give you bad vibrations. Your digestion will be very bad if you go to places which are not good. For example, going to Soho I always feel like vomiting! Always, as soon as I go there I feel like vomiting, the whole of my stomach and I must have vomited once or twice in that area, I’m sure about it. Maybe more. But first I didn’t know it was so related, I discovered that it was in Soho that this happens. And this kind of a feeling comes up when you go to places like that. So avoid all such places of vices and things. Even if you see such pictures and all that. Not that something goes that you are not above it – you are – but I mean nobody likes filth, you know. We are above everything but we cannot sit in the filth. You are sensitive to this.

As animals are not sensitive to many filths that we have around, but we are, in the same way you start getting sensitive to the filth, the inner filth, that subtler filth which we do not see, so you avoid it. Try to avoid it and you will feel much better. And you will yourself feel your priorities will change, your friends will change, your everything will change and automatically you will not like many things that people are talking about and just your interest will go away. For example, now I asked people just for one’s sake, “What about Jeremy Thorpe?” ( A homosexual British Member of Parliament accused of murder) They said, “Mother we are not reading that these days.” Normally some of you would have known the whole case so well, even better than the pleader himself. But they don’t read it now, just don’t read it. “It’s filth. It’s horrid, horrid.” It’s like that.

Your tastes change, your styles change. But allow it to grow and manifest itself and accept it. Gradually it will work out. If you press on it, say you are used to the smoking, you will give up smoking, you will not like it. First you will feel like vomiting about it and all that. But still if you insist, “No, I must smoke, I must smoke,” then you can accept it (the smoking) because then you are giving chance to your ego to accept yourself. Now this is the part I’m saying about the body; now you see all the angles of it – that how we affect our body very much.

Another thing is that, too much interest in food will go away, should go away. You should not be too much interested in taste and food and this and that. Also there are crazes about things: the other day I met a lady, she was very thin, I mean, and absolutely I didn’t understand and I said, “What’s the matter with you?” So she said, “Now I eat all healthy food.” I said, “How do you call it healthy?” She said, “There’s a ‘health store’ I go to and I waste my things from there and only that thing I buy.” All this is a craze! Spiritual health is very different from the so-called ‘vitaminised’ health. You see, Spiritual health is the health you get from love, the food of love. It’s different from food of so-called wrestlers bodies, the kind of thing the wrestlers eat. Food of love, we have to take it with love and give it with love and made with love, that is the food is of the highest of all.

So, that’s the body part of it, we can see how to look after the body is to not to think too much about food and spontaneously, if somebody gives you something with love, you just take it. That’s how you should eat. But if anybody gives you with hatred don’t take that food. It’s better not to eat such a food than to eat a poisonous thing. It’s poisonous for Sahaja Yogis.

Then another thing is to give to others also. We have to be giving to others, food especially. I don’t know how many of you bring chocolates for each other, or something like this, or something nice that you find: supposing you go somewhere and you find some nice cherries or something, then how many of you collect it and give it? Do you bring them for Sahaja Yogis? “Alright let me take it for, say in Sainsbury’s (shop), when I am there, let me take this money when I am there”. This is how you are going to have the articulation, means that you can articulate, you can communicate through this kind of love. You see, a small thing like that, you go somewhere, for Mother you do bring, I know, but for each other, something small and to find out what does he like. Now, I know Dinesh is uncomfortable because he’s a tall fellow and I have been telling him that you sit somewhere on a high thing, because I’m feeling it, I can feel it within myself because I love him and I can feel it because I know tall people have a problem, their height is too much and their centre of gravity is all the time going like that. There’s nothing wrong in it. Anybody who should sit next to him should say, “It’s alright, come along, sit down properly. Come along, sit down properly.” It’s good. And somebody who can sit on the ground should offer a seat saying that, “Come along Dinesh, you can sit here.” It should be that way.

You see what I am trying to say [is] that: let’s see small, small things that are needed by others. It’s a very sweet way of living together is – let’s see what do you need. I mean, you are going, say, to Germany now so I’ll be very happy if you bring something for a friend of yours than for me – hundred times! Because that is much more nourishing for me. That’s my food, to think, “Oh, my child has been so generous, and has been so generous.”

One day Gavin really gave me the very great happiness and I told him that. You see, one day he invited me to his place and he had lots of people that day and I was embarrassed. I said, “Now Gavin has invited people for dinner but how can so many people be fed? There are so many.” Of course, I knew it would be sufficient but it was just a play I should say. So I allowed about fifty percent of them to disappear and I said, “Let’s have dinner now.” So then he gave us dinner but he was a little bit unhappy. Next day he got up and he said, “Mother why did you ask half of them to go away? And then why did you ask for food so late? Because I had cooked for all of them.” And this was something so joy-giving. I didn’t mind those twenty-five going away for this joy that I got, really. Out of that same is that: how much we do for others? Small, small things, you see. And we should not be jealous in that part. Like, supposing Mia does something for, say, our doctor, then Lindsay should not be jealous of that, on the contrary he should realise that it’s nice that he has done; he should feel happy because doctor is also part of your being. Actually as I feel happy, you should be happy. From this you should know that, if it is done for others and if you see that, it’s much more joy-giving than if it is done for yourself. I tell you it’s a headache, it’s a headache sometimes if something is done for you, you get into a problem you see, “How am I to now pay it off? Oh he’s done so nice now. I must somehow or other try to pay it [back]. The same way as he is.” You feel that he has been so nice and so kind here and so sweet and , “I am not that much, I have never thought of these things how he is capable of these things.” So, this idea can come because you have seen [that] you go from one side to another, so as soon as these things happen, that will happen. And also jealousies can come. Both things should be avoided. And should really enjoy to see a friend [happy]. Why we do it everyday? You don’t know we do it everyday that way, in a very unknown way. Supposing you read a nice story and what is the story you enjoy the best? When you find two persons are loving each other without any selfishness. I mean why do we enjoy? I mean, none of us are there. The girl is not we and the boy is not we, we are something different, but we enjoy because we really enjoy that, in the universal happiness that somebody has done that for someone in that genuine way.

Those, I mean, the Indians who have been reading novels and things say that there is a very great writer that we have in our country – Sarat Chandra – and if you ask them, “Which is the story that you like the best in that?” We’ll say, “There’s one ‘Rameshawar’,” is the story. And in that story it’s the beauty of the artist, of the writer is this way, is they show a sister-in-law an elder sister-in-law having great love for the small, little brother-in-law, a little one, who is a step-brother of her husband. And this little brother-in-law first of all wants to find out about his would be sister-in-law and goes and tells his brother that, “You see I must go and see the girl first of all,” as in India it’s a custom that the elders go and see the girl, “I must approve of the girl otherwise how can you marry her? I must approve of the girl,” like a grandfather, you see, just all that. Very sweetly built up the whole thing. But it comes to the climax at a point where this lady has her mother there and she’s a horrid thing and she hates this boy because the daughter loves that child. And he’s just a little boy and he has the half property and all that and he doesn’t understand, an eight year old simple boy you see. So whatever he does she tries to find faults with it. So he brings one tree of banyan, small, little tree he gets a shoot somewhere and he brings it up in the centre of the house in the courtyard and he plants it there. Of course it’s not going to live, it’s a dead stuff, but like a child he brings it and plants it there. So the climax is brought out by the artist, I must say the way it’s brought out is beautiful. So, when it is put there this old lady comes she gets very angry and throws away all the thing out.

So the boy comes out in the morning time and he sees that the tree is gone, now it’s no more there. For him it’s something gone out of his life, he feels so unhappy. So he goes to his sister-in-law and she’s standing before him and he goes on the steps and he starts asking, “Why did you throw away?” She says, “I did it,” because she didn’t want the mother to be there. “Why did you do it? Why did you do it?” You see, he starts breaking his head before here, showing all his tortured being, that, “Why did you do it?” So she just takes him to her heart and she says, “Do you know why I did it?” So he says, “Why?” “Because if you put a Banyan tree in the courtyard then the death of the elder sister-in-law takes place.” He said, “Oh God! Really? Then have you thrown it permanently? Throw it away in the river! I hope it will have no effect. Put something there. Bring something just do something that it is finished off.” You see, the whole thing is so beautifully brought in. And the beauty of love between them we enjoy when we know what it is. And that’s how we should look at things when anybody does for anything. Where does the jealousy come in? Just to kill our joy, just to kill our joy.

It is nice to to see this is done to others, so much beautiful. That’s why the people who have been described in the novels may not have enjoyed so much as we are enjoying them because we can see that much better and feel good. But in every day to day life we do not do it, we do no do it. For example, a step-mother-in-law, if she’s horrid or step-mother she’s horrid, she’ll go and see a picture of a step-mother and will weep there at the way the step-mother is stern, and at home she will come and again beat her own child. Human beings are like that. So try to enjoy that. You don’t know, human beings are very complicated. If I see it I don’t understand, really, why they do it that way. But when we can enjoy the novels, why not the novel is just here between the friends, between all of us? Let’s have a novel and a play among ourselves, how we do beautiful things and how we try to love. This is how we have to work out among ourselves by doing little, little things here and there and that’s how we are going to beautify ourselves.

Now this joy-giving quality of enjoying others is present in you already, is awakened now through Sahaja Yoga and trying to make your life joyous. I have seen many Sahaja Yogis who say, “Mother, we have got knowledge no doubt, our attention is there, but what about the ananda, the joy?” I mean, you are killing your joy every moment! You are bent upon killing your joy every moment, what can I do about it? Those who have been able to overcome that part, then there is more possibility.

On the other side of it, supposing somebody you see, who is not doing the proper thing about Sahaj Yoga say, somebody who has started drinking now, after Sahaja Yoga: Then you should go and fight it out with him. Sit down with him for day and night and fight it out with him and see to it. You just say that, “I’m going on a fast because you have taken to drinking.” Work it out! Put all the pressures that are possible under your command. Tell all the Sahaja Yogis, all of you work it out.

You know, I was very happy sometimes people told me, “Mother, will you please put attention to such-and-such,” all of you put together, if they say, then I say, “They are on right stages.” “We are all fasting for such and such person,” “We are doing this for such and such people. We are working on such and such person.” And go and fight with that person, tell him on his face and do it. That something is great. This is also another way of, really, to communicate between yourselves, to think about the emancipation of others, about the awakening of others and to put them onto right stages.

You will find, all of you have some sort of a problem by which you do not open out to each other. Open out to each other, talk to each other. Openly discuss it. When you will go to India, those who are coming, will see how these people are that way absolutely shameless! They will say, “Come along, this is catching, take it out! Beat me with shoes, do that. Take my shoes and keep it with them and use that for taking it out.” And they’ll say, “You beat me with shoes, go on just beat me with shoes! I am catching here, you go and beat me with shoes.”

Unless and until you get after your weaknesses you cannot get rid of them. You should ask yourself, “Oh Mr., come along Mr. Sahaja Yogi, now what is your name, this is your problem, alright? So now let me take you to task!”

See to your weaknesses. See to your weaknesses and the strengths of others. And build up your strength and ignore the weaknesses of others. But, if it is destroying that person, then get together, many of you, not one, many of you, and go to that person and save him. This is how it is going to work out among yourselves.

Now the biggest problem of the West, because now we are dealing with the majority of the Western people, is E-G-O, absolutely simple. It’s a very simple thing and I have given you the reason why there is so much of ego and why we have been working through ego and how we have been depending on her. Now this Mr. Ego is the one which gives you ideas. It goes to such a limit of ideas giving that even people commit sin because their ego is satisfied by saying, “What do I care for this God? Who is He?” “What are these scriptures? What do I care?” So this Mr. Ego can take human beings to any limit, any limit of self-destruction and one has to be careful about it. This Mr. Ego only gives you a sense of jealousy, because it gets hurt immediately.

Now in this programme, if I do not take the names of two, three people – immediately their ego will be hurt. They will think, “Why didn’t you take my name?” And ego identifies with many things, which is a very big problem also, which is such a subtle thing. Now, for example, two friends are there, so they will always club together. Then, if I say one thing to one friend he’ll say, “Mother, why don’t you say to the other friend?” They will say, “Why don’t you say this to other friend?” But not to the whole congregation but to the other friend. All the time that friend is pushed forward. He says, “Why don’t you look after this friend of mine?” Or they’ll push forward in everything, somebody whom they think must be pushed forward. And this kind of identification in someone is ego’s job. And that’s how it keeps you there. It gives you identifications, this way, that way. And you have to disentangle yourself. Know, “As far as my growth is concerned, I’m alone. There I am alone. As far as my own achievements are concerned, I am alone. I am not identified with anyone. I am identified with Truth.” But as far as the Sahaja Yoga and the whole thing, is concerned then all of us must do it together that way. We should all feel it, that way, together. So there won’t be any problem when you all live together but you will enjoy yourself.

Small things like saying, “Why don’t you come to my place?” Call them over. Then you tell others like this. You are all saints. A day will come when you will be respected much more than all these kings and queens put together. You are saints and you have to behave like saints towards each other, you have to respect because you are saints and that God is in you now emitting It’s light as vibrations. Every Sahaja Yogi must respect another Sahaja Yogi. And it is a simple thing which one should know. But we do not know it so well because of the one problem – is ego. But in India people understand it because the ego is not so much developed there, that may be why. I wrote to them about a lot of people might be wanting to come to India, what about them? So everyone wrote to me, “Mother, what a great pleasure that saints are coming to our country now. To our country they are visiting. Oh we’ll be having a big festivity. We are going to have a festival of things.” And they were going to take a house in Bombay for 30,000 rupees for a month for you people, because “it should be proper, it should be comfortable.” I said, “Now, nothing doing! There will be hardly twelve people coming and you just don’t spend so much money.” They would have given you a red carpet treatment and those who have been there, you can ask them how they have treated them. “Because the saints are coming and we must serve the saints and they are saints and we must respect them.” This is the idea they have there. In the same way, you should know we have to respect each other because we are all saints. We have entered into the Kingdom of God. We have been blessed by Him and we have to understand that we are all individually dear to God and He has bestowed upon us that Light.

If you do not respect each other properly Sahaja Yoga cannot work out. And not [to be] identified with anyone, like I said. I sometimes see those acrobats you have, in the air, when the aeroplanes go round; how they are keeping the distance alright, respecting each other properly, everyone. They do not collide and they do not bump into each other. In the same way, the whole thing should move. See this Universe, see how beautifully God has created it, with so many stars are moving, so many satellites are moving, and there’s no collision. And this Earth is moving with tremendous speed and we are nicely settled down here without feeling the speed or the noise of that moving mass. How beautifully the whole thing is worked out and how delicately it is all placed. In the same way, Sahaja Yoga is a tremendous Universe and that Universe you have to move with that respect and love and understanding for each other. Arrogance to each other or saying hurting things to others, or even disrespect, even showing your tongue and things, you should not do that. You are saints, you are matured people.

I mean, I have seen, even in the Parliament, the way people behave towards each other is most surprising and shocking – how can they? But you are the chosen ones by God, you are all dignified just like all great sages. Behave in that manner and respect each other! And be very much thankful that you have so many like you here, with whom you can share your ideas and can talk to each other and can be kind to each other and can also be absolutely one with each other, absolutely one with each other.

It is a very special position you are into. Because of this ego we really try to be very, very indignified and misidentified. This you can bring about very carefully in the house, if you can write in your rooms, “I am a realised soul.” It’s writ large on your forehead! Absolutely I can see clearly. It’s writ large in your eyes.

Anybody who goes to India, say, need not tell me that they are going, Sahaja Yogis will find out who they are in no time. Even looking at a person one can say, “Yah, you see, he’s a realised soul.” It’s writ large on your faces. So identified with your Self that you are and not that what you were, it’s finished, you’ve got your Self-realisation. So all the franticness the panic, the indignity, the disturbances, all will gradually settle down now. Just shake yourself, because now that’s like the leaves on the tree which are dead now, will fall down, and the new leaves have to come out.

This is a thing I wanted to talk to you about your Self and about the Sahaja Yoga, internal yoga. One is internal yoga here, and another is a yoga between all of you – is very important. Gradually you will be developing new and new dimensions and new and new visions about each other. When you will start seeing this on others, you will start seeing in yourself. Try to see good points of others and bad points of yours. But don’t condemn it (yourself) because there’s another side to this, is that this Left-Vishuddhi, is to feel guilty about it. That’s not the point. Guilty, feeling guilty is not done by a person who is in the Witness State. He doesn’t take up anything as bad because he can remove it. So you remove that and remove this and be in the centre. Just be in the centre where you receive the complete blessings.

Sometimes, even if you lose vibrations, doesn’t matter. You are a realised soul and you will be a realised soul. Even if you are reborn you will be a realised soul no doubt about it. You are not going to lose it. And if anybody says anything to you [it] doesn’t matter, makes no difference, because you are a realised soul, you are above it, so let them say whatever they like. Whatever you are you are, they cannot change you. You can change them and they cannot change you. They cannot change you.

So it’s something that is so much you own so why should you bother if others do not appreciate you? It doesn’t matter. But try to help them out. You are just doing it because you want to help them. If you think that way everything will be alright. And for doing it you have to be in meditation to see yourself [that’s] very important, to see yourself. And you have to try on others also, if they ask you. You should ask others to see you and watch and find out what’s the matter with you, where are we and what is happening to you. But there are now, lots of unanimous feelings among you which is surprising and good when there is an attack. This is the best part of the whole thing is that, when there is an attack, there’s a collectivity much more, in emergencies. Like there was an attack here and you felt much closer to each other. And there was quite an unanimous verdict on this that it was a horrid, horrid place we had come to. But the whole thing is transformed into a beautiful place now. Now even somebody coming here and sleeping might get his Kundalini awakened you see. You can transform. They’ll be a master, they’ll just laugh at these people like the elephant walking and the dogs barking like that, it makes no difference to the elephant, he just puts his ears just like this here (laughter).

So, for the morning on this if you have any questions a little bit I don’t mind, but on this subject.

Ya?

Yogi: Some Sahaja Yogis have been getting colds. Now, if they are getting vibrations, should they be getting colds? And if they are getting colds, are they doing wrong things or eating wrong things?

Shri Mataji: That is the ‘blessing’ of this country (laughter) that you get cold. I mean, this is also a human nature, you see. Just see the beauty of it. You see, in India, now, for example, my husband, at least, wears seven sweaters, you won’t believe it. See now, he’s (a yogi in the room) wearing a sweater which is covering his neck. Those who come from the hot country keep themselves much more protected than you people. I have always requested all of you to buy one scarf each of a very thick thing, that you should always keep your neck covered with a scarf. So, I have been requesting everybody that you bring it, I’ll vibrate it, I’ll give it to you, do that. And also you should know what it causes because of hot and cold you see. Never take anything cold after hot. Gradually you start from cold to the hot.

Now, the another thing which catches Vishuddhi to begin with, is when you do not have consideration of the collectivity, in a subtler way. In a subtler way it starts like that. When you are aware of the collective being then the Vishuddhi is much better. Because of the ego problem here, also, the Vishuddhi catches because once the ego is there you are move individualistic, “I am this, I am that,” so it goes hand in hand with that. So one has to be more careful that we should keep our neck covered and use also some balm or something, just to give it some soothing thing. But, what is the best thing for your throats, is salt. You see, at this point you become the Viraat, the All-pervading, you can say, the Primordial Being. Now, pervading into everything is done through salt. Salt dissolves into all the solvent things. So salt is the thing, solution, for this. From the ocean you take out the salt which is clear cut and then you put it here. This is, also, is Viraata’s thing.

Now, all these Gurus, in the stomach, have praised that Viraat, is the Akbar, is the Great Being, He’s the one here (Vishuddhi). So the salt, that they are, you have to use them here. It pleases. Salt is like the sages. You are the salt. Do you remember this? And you are the salt, all the Sahaja Yogis are the salts. And the salt is very pleasing to Shri Krishna, to your Primordial Being here. So when you take salt, in that way, is to gargle your throat, and to put a little salt if you want to here, with your fingers, with this finger is good. Use this finger for this thing. And look after that part because this is the demand of this country. We have demands of other troubles in other countries, like India is malaria, you have to protect yourself from malaria. Or maybe somewhere it is plague, I don’t know what countries even have, what sort of things. But here it is cold and catarrh and all these things are there. So a few things like that. And also inhalation and there are some things we know, very simple things, which cost nothing, is this ajwain ka dhuni, which they will tell you how to do it. All these things you must take and look after your throats. It’s very important to look after your throats. And that’s why people catch cold.

But what is wrong in Sahaja Yoga is this, that you have not respected your Vishuddhi Chakra. You have to be careful. You catch from other people also so many times, so be careful as not to contact with other people. But it can be easily overcome if you develop your Witness State better and if you concentrate on your Vishuddhi Chakra. It can improved and it can be settled.

What other trouble people have is liver. It’s common with people. Most of you have it because you are all the time thinking too much and the liver doesn’t get sufficient of energy so the liver is there. So, for liver also, we know what is to be done. And it’s more liver here than in India I think, yes. Extremes should be avoided, like sitting in the Sun and bathing yourself for hours together and all that is not necessary. And there’s no need to expose your body. You can cover your body and still the Sun’s rays go into you. There’s no need to expose your body. Actually the exposure of body is very dangerous for your nerves and everything, it’s very bad. You should not expose your body so much. Even in the water also, directly, you should never expose your body. You must cover your body in the water also, because water also attacks you. So exposure of body should be in a very limited space and in a very limited way. As far as possible body should not be exposed too much. It’s very dangerous because then you allow your chakras to be opened to these entities and a kind of a vulgarity walks in you.

Now, this is another thing is that, in this country, people sleep without any clothes on them. I mean, this is the coldest country where people should cover up themselves and sleep. I sleep with the sweater on and everything on to be very frank, you see! Although we have the central heating on, but we all sleep like that. And here it is a very common thing that you find. And one Indian gentleman told me that’s the reason the children don’t sleep in the same room as the parents sleep. And we always had children with us because we don’t take out our clothes, we just sleep as we sleep normally. And there’s no need to be all the time in a perpetual nudity to enjoy your sleep. Or I don’t know what is the need to be nude in sleep because it’s a very bad thing is to expose yourself in the night especially because night time all these nocturnal people, all these spirits are hovering around and if they see anybody like that they might end up in them. So it’s a very dangerous thing. But this idea I think you have started very recently. Somebody must have given you ideas that to sleep without clothes is very good perhaps, which everybody starts doing that way. You see all these, also there are lots of spirits who are writing books so be careful if somebody says like that, “If you take out all your clothes you’ll behave different.”

You’ll find anybody here who is all the time ?? nobody. Everybody has some sort of a ?? all the time. It’s very bad for the mind. You see the mind is never alright. Like, I would say now, I was coming and I saw a very nice church and with that all these graves, all the crosses and graves there. I said, now anybody going to the church will be possessed. But at least when you go to church there’s one thing you do is to wear a clean dress, go with a mark and all that, so that, if they see you clean and neat, then they are a little afraid to come into you. But if you go in the night without any dress there when you get in bed, you can become a booboo next morning (laughter). That’s what they do all these people, this ‘narayan’ and all that, all of them go do it there. And not only but they go to the temples where the Deities are and before them they become naked and do all kinds of dirty things and then get all the [dead] spirits to come down there because no more the God’s attention is there. And that’s how they work out with dead spirits, so it is like that. All these certain things you have to change. This is not your culture and do not insult your culture by saying, “This is our culture.” It’s absolutely nonsensical. This is not English culture, neither it is Western culture. They were all sensible people and they were never that nonsensical, the way we are now, and so we should not say this was our culture at all. I mean, this would be an insult to the culture. Only a few kings used to misbehave and everybody criticised them, nobody liked them. So, I mean that vice has become now, in democracy, everybody becomes a king as far as the vices are concerned, not in the good points. That kind of a democracy is of no use. And so, that sort of a thing it has happened but this was never your culture before. A very great, sensible people, and known for your wisdom. You know England is the Heart of the Universe and how could it be that foolish? Just think about it, it’s the Heart of the Universe, it is heart shaped also. It’s a very important thing and that’s why I am here with you. So try to respect it and respect it’s traditions.

Yogi: Shri Mataji is it easier for evil spirits of bhoots to get into Sahaja Yogis?

Shri Mataji: No, it is more difficult but you can feel them. You see the thing is, when you are not a Sahaja Yogi you cannot feel it. You can get possessed, you can get depressed, you can get all kinds of things, you might even become a lunatic person, you may. Whatever may happen but you won’t feel it. But as soon as you are a Sahaja Yogi you can feel it and that’s how you can guard yourselves. It is very difficult. And if you know all the methods of guarding then it’s even better. And actually Sahaja Yogis do not catch, as I said, but if you go on feeling, “I have caught, I have caught,” so you have it!

Yogi: As far as I can really see that before one can really get in control of one’s body from the start one is especially vulnerable (to bhoots). is that so?

Shri Mataji: No, no. You are much less vulnerable. But only you can feel it because you are sensitive. Like, if you have a pain, they may kill it with some sort of a numb effect. But when it goes out you feel it. In the same way, you are numbed before realisation, and after realisation you aren’t. And that’s what Sahaja Yogis think that, they all attack us and all that. They are literally frightened of you because you are much more powerful. It’s an idea that, “We are attacked because we are Sahaja Yogis.” (laughing) The idea is that. Nothing of the kind. On the contrary they run away, they run away. But you should be someone, in a beautiful way that they run away, they just don’t come near you. We have three of them in Rahuri and some of the possessed people they told that, “Please tell these three not to go together. Even if they have to go they can go single people. Because, after all, we have left the bodies but we have to live somewhere, and they go on their motorbikes,” so he said, “tell them not to go that fast. Give us some chance at least to get away from there.” So it’s like that! (laughing) So you are not attacked more. But they come more in your awareness you see.

But there are certain ways of judging you. Like there was a girl in America, she used to run a shop of her own and what happened [was that] she was very good at remembering everything; this is this, this is this, that one is yellow coloured and this is pink colour and this price is so much and everything. She was very good. Once she got realisation she forgot all that, she couldn’t do that way. But the profits were four times [larger]. And she was surprised, with all that thing, and she used to get a headache everyday. She could not sleep with the idea that she has put this here and she should have put it there and all that. She was [now] not doing anything like that. She was just doing spontaneously, just existing, and the profits were four times. She was so amazed. Because the attention you pay to [things] is very limited and with your limited idea. But after realisation you just become a vehicle of the dynamic attention which works it out. And it’s amazing how it works, amazing.

Yogi: Mother, can one be too passive about witnessing one’s realisation? (laughter)

Shri Mataji: You see, passive and active comes from the way we are either in the ego, the way we are acting, whether we are acting through ego. But in Sahaja Yoga you are neither passive nor active you are just there. This is the difference here. What are you saying to me? “Am I passive” or “active”?

Yogi: ??

Shri Mataji: You are active? You are not. I am passively active. I am acting but I’m doing nothing but I am acting, you can say, in the same way that you have got powers to do. But if you think that you can do it just by sleeping over, that’s not the way it will work out. You have to be. Like I have told many people, “Why don’t you get up in the morning? If you do not have time in the evening to meditate, meditate in the morning” Because you have to do it. Still you are not there, that’s why you have to be active about it. First you become absolutely a Witness State, then you don’t have to do anything, you just sit down and you are in it. But still I have to travel, I have to go and meet people. I have to talk to you. I have to talk to you for hours together. Sometimes I have to sit in one place for ten hours continuously. So, I am quite active in that way. And I am also inactive because I am not doing anything, I am just watching it. If I see manifested…

(end of recording)

 

H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi