Talk about Gandhi

New Delhi (India)



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Talk about Gandhi. Delhi, India. 11 March 1979.

Today at the end of this program at Gandhi Bhavan, I want to first tell you about Gandhiji, and why Gandhi was so important, perhaps you have never realized what a tremendous instrument Gandhiji was.
At the age of seven years, he just picked me up from my family. And I stayed with him, very very close, extremely close and he uses to call me as ‘Nepali’, that was my name and everybody knew me by that name.
After forty years or say forty-five years or so, suddenly I met Kamal Nain Bajaj, at the wedding of his own son, and I went to him and I said “Do you recognize me?” and he said “What Nepali, how are you here?” and just tears started flowing down my eyes.
That was Gandhiji. He was a tremendously hard taskmaster. And I always use to say “That you can be hard, but how can you be hard with all these people?” He would make us get up at 4’0 clock, it was very easy for me to get up at 4’0, because you see my body has no habits, I can get up anytime and sleep any time, but I use to feel for others that at their age, Maulana Azad get up at 4’0 and they had to clean their utensils, they had to even he asked them as to clean their bathrooms and the W.C and everything with their own hand, he was a tremendously hard taskmaster, but an extremely loving and compassionate person.
He, as just now Gregoir has said, definitely he always used to talk to me in a way as if I was his grandmother you see, and he uses to discuss things with me most surprisingly from all others, in a way as if I was a great adviser to everyone. He uses to make me sit and said that guidance can be had better from some children than from older people.
Even when I again went to Gandhi Ashram this time Madasa told to me the same thing “Do you remember he used to say so?”, I said “I remember that. But somehow he had recognized me, and he knew about me, same I would say about Shastriji, who had recognized me and use to really respect me, that’s another man we have not been able to know, I wish there were some people somewhere near their levels.
Some people were absolutely standing on edges of swords, they would not tolerate anything that was wrong for themselves, the first thing they had was to keep themselves upright in dharma and Gandhiji used to really appraise himself day to day ask the question is it in dharma ateet? is it in dharma ateet? is it in love?, he was tremendous … and the thing that I have learnt from him I should say is one of the things which I would have never understood otherwise is his sense of public money. Actually I have no sense of money at all, I am so horrid, I do not know what is bank and I do not know how to cash cheque, I am still though I mean, I must have cashed lots of cheques, but I don’t know even today, if you want to teach me, I just can’t learn, I am no good for it, but I have seen Gandhiji’s sense of public money, so clean, so clean, and so sharp that anybody who has lived with him, I cannot understand how can they take to this kind of cheap dealing with public money.
Once we had a meeting of all the big leaders and they came to Gandhi Ashram where we all were staying and some boys were there looking after them, giving pamphlets and thing and suddenly Gandhiji realized that its very late and they should have their lunch in the Ashram itself, so he said that why not have your lunch here and they said alright if you think so we will have our lunch, so he got up, he always had the bhandara keys with him. Because Ba was not there, so he came down and he told us that let us weigh food for them and take it out, so there we had to weigh according to the number of people we had to, so he said I am a pucka baniya , you must properly weigh everything and take it out and then it took about 15 minutes to do all that, then again he took the keys, put it back and went on with his work. I think it was Maulana Azad or someone who was there, who said: “Bapu I never knew that you will, we never knew that you will take so much trouble for our sake, we would have gone back little late and had our lunch there”. He said “Trouble, what trouble is it, he said no, the way you got up and take the way, so cautious and careful”, you know the words he said, even to get to say I feel so much touched, he said “Do you know, this is the blood of my people, I cannot allow it to be wasted or in any way spilt”, just imagine, he said, “Yeh dane dane mere bachon kay ghar se aa rahe hain”, I mean I cannot forget his sense of accounts, and even I have seen this in Shastri ji was saying, I mean there was nothing like a double standard, on the contrary the closer you went to them you respected them much better, because they were so clean, so clean and they saw to it that they maintain that cleanliness and that’s all.
We are really very lucky to have such great people born in this country of ours, only the trouble is that you have forgotten what great contribution they have done, that Gandhiji was a person who gave ahimsa to save us from this foreign domination. In a such a unique manner he laid down the basis for Sahaja yoga actually, in every way he laid down, for example, if you see his ideas, economic ideas are absolutely in tune with Sahaja yoga.
Now, after the industrial revolution and industrial revolution as they call it in the west, people have gone so far in creating an aggressive economy that they are astounded the way now things are working out in the west, the aggression that started in the industry of machinery is now directed towards the human beings themselves.
In England you’ll be amazed which is the soberest country among all others, in England every week two children are killed by their parents, is the statistics, can you imagine? Good children, they are not illegitimate children. No family is safe from this aggression, the aggression is now towards oneself, is absolutely self-destroying, the machinery, the giant, that started creating things also made human beings machines and these machines had no feelings within them and the feelings started drying up and drying them to such an extent that human beings have become feelingless, they have no emotions left, I don’t know if Gandhi ji could have sensed too that extent, because you know it is difficult for a saint to see the forces of evil how far they can move.
It’s a very difficult thing, but he did see something of it so he was warning that don’t go for heavy industries, heavy industries are very dangerous and he through preached that try to keep medium pace in industries. With all this advancement in the west, you’ll be surprised the condition is such that you cannot get anything fresh. The food that you get is nothing but God knows what kind of a chemistry they have adopted, that all the time you are eating chemicals, you do not feel you are eating any fruit, if you talk to people you feel they are stunned and they are shocked, they are afraid of each other, there is no love, there is no trust, there is no give and take, it’s such a ridiculous thing, absurd society that has been created that it is important for us, the so-called developing countries to know where have they fallen, through what teachings they have come and stand by and see for yourself that when you are trying to use science and you see these industrial achievements of other countries as a tool to our advancement you should know that they can completely destroy us as they have destroyed those people.
Their destruction is not from outside so much of course it is in a way, the way we have created Hiroshima and all that, but the destruction is from within and that destruction is set in such a big way that it’s impossible now to talk. The only way is to turn the whole thing into a new dimension by which you can control and that is only possible through Sahaja Yoga. Thank God my husband was elected and I went to London as we have now a base. Gandhi ji is the man who has created a base for dharma in this country of modern times. If you see his bhajanawali you’ll be amazed it is all based on the different chakras, one after another all that bhajanawali starts from one to another it’s just like how we do it for our kundalini awakening. It is based one after another from one chakra to another chakra to another chakra, though has not mentioned it anywhere.
Apart from that in Sahaja Yoga we have to take account of all the incarnations, of all the prophets, of all the great primordial masters, who came on this earth and adjust accordingly to different movements of kundalini, because according to Sahaja Yoga all these incarnations are within us and they help us and we have to awaken them. Same thing Gandhi ji has done, is to tell us that we have to know Quran, we have to know Bible, we have to know Gita, we have to know all these great scriptures and awake people and integrate, of course, that part is left to me is the actualization of what he wanted to do.
So, he definitely has prepared the base, economic base then political base also. He never believed in aggression never and he said that sharing should be taught, he always believed even capitalism should be conquered through enlightenment, though he was so busy with this emergency job of saving the whole nation that he could not pay much attention to the subtler side of Sahaja Yoga which I call awakening of the Kundalini or self-realization. But he always talked about it, he always said about it, most surprising he’s the only one as I have seen so far who was not doing self-realization or working out self-realization but was so close to it and could see clearly that self-realization is the only way for the emancipation of human beings. His values and his styles were so correct.
As a Mother also as a child I was a Mother throughout, I would always feel that Gandhi ji was too strict and I always use to say that “You are too strict I just can’t bear it”. Tears used to come into my eyes. I said this is a bit too much. He said no we are in an emergency, we have to be self-disciplined, we have to be disciplined and we have to tell them.
Once I told him “Bapu, if you, if you want to discipline people why not discipline them from within?”, he said “How could they?”, I said, “It is very easy, you can do it”. He said “Not just now, not just now, first of all, let us be free if we are not free what can we enjoy? We cannot talk about it people will say we are not even free how can we talk of freedom of spirit. We should be free from foreign domination”, I would say “In emergency supposing we use a boat to cross over then we do not carry the boat over our heads but we do carry the experiences of our crossing and those experiences have been great and the greatness about Gandhiji was that he created great only by his personal character and by his dynamic, absolutely dynamic leaders, and the era when this has happened I have seen those people were absolutely genuine, you cannot be, how sacrificing they were.
I have seen my own father that today I think he was a legendary man if I tell you how great he was, I mean in every way I cannot find a single fault in his life as a leader, but today it is very different and very sad that those who were supposed to be Gandhi ji’s followers, the other day only I talked to somebody that why not start with the basic education because we do not live in the city, why should we have this education which doesn’t go to the villages, so he said “It’s difficult, very difficult its a very difficult proposition and all that, I was amazed he was a Gandhian, how could he talk like that, it is not at all difficult to adopt Gandhiji’s ways in India.
As Gregoire has told you I have been to China, and Mao has definitely followed Gandhiji, he has copied everything that Gandhiji has done. I was amazed because when I was there I saw even Magan Chula are being practised by him, all the things that Gandhiji thought of he has done and he has improved China, and today China is ahead of tiger, people are now afraid you see, this Tiger has now awakened, it has now got its own power and this is what Gandhiji had dreamt imagine that Mao should use it, and while our people, I don’t know, I should blame the bureaucrats, or the Congressmen or the politicians, who never understood that Gandhiji was the most practical man and now Sahaja yoga I am sure will re-establish his values, definitely it has to be established. too much of asking, too much of elaborations, too much of materialism makes you a slave of material.
You’ll be amazed we are supposed to be poor people there are supposed to be but they are not, in London or in America American people are such miserly people that I am really shocked, absolutely shockingly misers, to spend five rupees for us in nothing for somebody who comes to our house, but the Americans are such miserly people that even if they have to spend one rupee, they’ll think ten times, same in England I find and same in another place, terribly miserly calculative, I have known some people you go to their house and they count heads and give you sandwiches accordingly, horrible and they are very rich people, they’ll have crystals, they’ll have silver, they’ll have everything and they behave in such a ridiculous manner all the time they are thinking about money, how to make this money, how to make that money, how to keep it, you cannot imagine this affluence has made them so poor absolutely absurd.
I always felt really that through this material gains they might become a sort of satisfied people and will take to less materialism, but it’s not so, it’s just the opposite, people have taken to materialism as a religion and it is so maddening, so maddening that you can’t imagine. You are judged absolutely by the materialistic ideas you have, the value, it is such a mad world that if you stay there, then only you will realize how madly they are.
So, as a result, these people that are here you can see that they revert, they could not bear it anymore, they said they will get out of it but still the clutches of materialism are so great they have to live with them, only through Sahaja Yoga they have been able to establish themselves fully and steady themselves, I would say these are the great pioneers who will change the whole of west, they are the foundations of tomorrow beautiful world, otherwise the west is now a wasteland, nothing but a wasteland I can tell you. I hope these people will take to Sahaja Yoga in the right earnest and will spread the message of Sahaja Yoga and will create that atmosphere as just now Dr Pant said the beautify, transforming atmosphere, in all these western countries run about, work it out and bring the dawn of the new world in which we all live together as human beings and as real brothers and sisters.
Sahaj Yoga has done a great service to humanity that it has given you antar yoga within yourself, the insight, it has given you antar yoga between the Sahaja yogis and it is so great that some of these people have been before in India many times. They have never been able to come close to Indians because all the Indians those whom they met they are all westernized without the tails. They had the same ideas, the same philosophy, the same everything and they were, they were enamoured by the west and they were just praising the western culture and rest of them. For the first time they said when they have come to Indian villages and the way they have embraced these villagers and the way they danced together and the way they enjoyed, this is the real antar yoga, the real love between all of you, the real enjoyment and the real oneness that one feels. It is not just talking or saying of ideal things that we are brothers and sisters and you are saying you are all brothers and sisters and nothing of that exists, you just become it’s the actualization, you cannot just help it helping another person.
For example now if I am sitting here and if I say that I have cured, I am doing no good, I am not doing it for any obligation, I am doing it because you are part and parcel of my being, I have to jolly well cure you if I want to feel you all. I can feel you all within myself this is the actualization of collective consciousness, and once that happens you just start feeling the oneness and today I am going to talk about collective consciousness to you through Sahaja Yoga how we get it, it’s an actualization and not brainwashing or lecture. This is the difference, the way people have been talking we talk before it happens, but now the time has come for this to happen.