Talk about Gandhi

New Delhi (India)

1979-03-11 Talk about Gandhi Hindi & English 1979 EN, 21'
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1979-03-11 Talk about Gandhi Hindi & English 1979 HI, 52'
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Talk about Gandhi. Delhi, India. 11 March 1979.

[English translation from Hindi]

I had talked about Vishuddhi Chakra, now it is from this Vishuddhi Chakra that you get collective consciousness, I had told you that Krishna is a complete incarnation because he is Virata. Virata is that power with which you get complete assimilation. In the heart there is power of Shivaji and in the stomach there is power of Gurus and in the Swadishthan Chakrathere is Brahmadeva’s power, and in the brain, there is Brahmadeva’s power you can say, and when Virata is enlightened, when Virata’s Sahasrara opens, then all the cells and tissues inside it also get their Sahasrara opened.

In the Bible, it is said that God has made man as He is Himself, made his own image. And this is true, as Virata is so you all are. The only difference is that He is the doer and you have been made. This is the only difference that He has made and you have been made. Now He desires that you should know Him, He desires, this is His desire, you have been made because it was His desire. And after making you, He now wants that you should know Him. Because this is His desire it will have to be fulfilled. He has already done a complete preparation for this, in us the complete instrument has been made, the complete thing has been made as I told you in the morning today, and now all that you need to do is get connected to Him. As soon as you get connected to Him, as soon as your kundalini rises and pierces through your Sahasrara, you realize that you are not alone, as if you are many, small, small (sit down, all are getting disturbed, don’t walk about because they get disturbed you see, just sit at one place, when attention gets disturbed the kundalini slips down).

All this has happened because of His desire and you can know Him only when He desires for it. That is why when I say this is Sahaj, effortless, when you do effort you go away from His desire when you try, you go away from His desire when you make any desire you go away from His desire. When everything is left on His desire then we call it faith, then we call it trust. If human beings can leave everything on God and say do whatever You wish to do, You are everything, if a human being can do this, then there is no reason that he will go astray. Because in reality He holds your hand and makes you walk. But if you think that you can drag yourself and work hard on your self to hold him, then it is not going to work out. He has to hold you, not you. One way is that by force you hold him, you run towards Him and try to hold Him, you won’t be able to, but if you ask him like a small child that please hold my hand, please hold my hand and walk, it is all in Your hand, hold my hand and take me as you wish, then the human being starts walking on the right path and on the path of dharma. But as soon as the human being starts making efforts he goes astray. Because he does not know, his spirit cannot guide, he does not know where to go, like small children, whose eyes are still not open completely, they are totally dependent upon their mother, their food, drinking everything she looks after, she looks why the child is crying, she knows everything, whether the child tells her or not she knows everything, what is her child’s need, she immediately understands, because the child is very innocent. We lose our innocence when we start working and planning, we will do this, we will do that, we will achieve God, we will go to the Himalayas, and all problems of the world. Because of all this the human being has committed so many mistakes, he has drifted so much away from Virata, imagine if in our body this nose thinks that I will do something and show, but you have been put in place of the nose so keep sitting in your place, but if it insists that I will do something then a trunk will come out in its place. This is called an arbitrary act. When humans become arbitrary, when he starts thinking from his own end that he will do this and show, I will do that and show, then he is arbitrary. On my own and when cancer starts developing, it is because of such cells only which are arbitrary. Malignancy sets in. If one cell says that I will only increase, I want to go ahead and I want to go and see, then it starts increasing and it becomes malignant. Its problem goes to another, the other also becomes malignant, the third one gets this problem that too becomes malignant. When you are connected to the whole and you think He is sitting and will do whatever is to be done, with this kind of thinking the human being remains in the centre.

Now you say that if we keep sitting on this, nothing will happen for us, whatever will happen for you, it will not happen for anyone else, whatever benefit will happen to you, it will not happen for anyone else. You will be able to rise much more than others. In every aspect I can say that it will happen, but you think that we will do something and show, Ramdas Swami has said “Alpdharisht paye”, you want to do something, go ahead, do it, then when you stumble and fumble down, get hurt then you blame God, that we did so much effort, so much we called God, then why did this mistake happen? Who had asked you to do so much effort, it is better to sit in one place silently that to bang yourself here and there like a blind. And then put down your hand and come and tell me “Mother how could this happen?” All these things that humans do are surprising, individually they do, but more surprising is that such people make a collective of this.

Once there was some organisation of such kind and you see that Pope made a very big organisation of this kind, Muslims have made another, Hindus have made another, someone else had made another one, meaning malignancy cells have come up and all these are malignant cells which eat up the society. To join these or to bring them together what is the element? What is the cementing force for this? Hatred, bitterness, jealousy, competition, because Muslims are like that, Hindus are like that, because Christians are like this Muslims are like this. All is relative, nothing is absolute. So, when such things develop, then in Virata the cells are formed which are malignant, and today’s Kali Yuga map is such that in all the Virata is full of cancer. If there is one type of cancer in India then in England it is another type of cancer. In America, there is a third type of cancer. Anywhere you go you will find people are suffering from cancer and they have made such false constitutions, they are working on such hollow principles that it is surprising to see how these institutions are standing.

I was shocked to see the Pope, two long robes and with such big, big diamonds put here and here, he moves about and thinks he is a special appointee of Christ. Our Adi Shankaracharya Maharaj who is no more now, and here the residing Adi Shankaracharya, I have heard that in London he gets he is getting a golden dome made above his head and some special diamonds are being studded which will come from some foreign place. Now ask this man if one day this dome falls on his head then will you be saved? These kinds of funny ideas are working from ages and we keep respecting such things. Sahaja yoga will bring a revolution and all these falsehood and old institutions will be destroyed and raise them on the basis of truth. If not this then the second thing I told you that humans will have to understand that nothing but the truth will prevail and last. Whatever hollow and false things we are holding on to and we stand for them and are taking them lightly, we should realize that this is like a crocodile.

The place of Virata, the Vishuddhi Chakra is very important, I have told you this many times, when humans lifted their neck then he became a complete human being, the height of the neck, God has a great role to play in it, Shri Sakshat, Shri Krishna-Virata took His birth as a simple cowboy on this Universe. Among common men, He came as a cowboy, the complete incarnation of God on this Universe. And He said to human beings that this entire universe is a play, you are just to witness it, where are you all entangled, this is all a play. And to become a witness, to become the spirit, this was all his message to the people of this universe. He said that this spirit is eternal, it cannot be destroyed. The strange characteristics of Shri Krishna, which a lot of people criticize like He had sixteen thousand wives, He had sixteen thousand wives, who were these sixteen thousand wives? Do you know? These were His powers, today my powers are flowing through these Sahaja yogis, these Sahaja yogis are the channels of my powers, to channelize His powers who was there? That is why he gave birth to these powers, in Sakar form these took birth.

A king had kidnapped them, from that king he rescued all of them and married them. So, he already had sixteen thousand Sahaja yogis. Here it is difficult to gather even one thousand Sahaja yogis. He already organized for Himself, by giving birth to these sixteen thousand powers, and when He took all these sixteen thousand powers within Him then in us also these sixteen thousand nerves got established. Because of Him only, these sixteen thousand nerves in us got enlightened. Today morning what I told them about Gita, you may listen to it again. Then you will understand that it was such a great blessing of God that Shri Krishna came on this universe. You cannot understand Shri Krishna at a gross level, you can understand Him only on a subtle level. People who remain on a gross level can never understand Shri Krishna. To understand Him it is very important that you take your realization, then only His minute details and the minute details of this chakra you will know.

These days most of the people have their Vishuddhi Chakra caught up. Too much caught up, there are many reasons for this, the first reason is that if yours is caught up then my also gets caught up. If you keep you alright then my throat will also get ok. This is common, people know about this, when my throat gets bad, then vibrations from this only flow out and your throat gets ok. This Vishuddhi Chakra is where Shri Krishna resides and some things are very bad for this chakra, you must understand these, first is Tobacco. I don’t know from where humans have taken this idea to consume Tobacco, there is no other animal apart from a human who knowingly destroys himself. Now, this tobacco was never made by God for humans to eat, it is an insecticide you know, to kill insects, now like stupid man started eating it, whether he eats it or smokes it, the Vishuddhi Chakra gets caught up. You know that cancer develops at Vishuddhi chakra, still, you take. It is written that by smoking Vishuddhi will go bad, you may get cancer and whatever you do you do it on your own risk, still people do it. When you know this is self-destroying, why do you do it? Because all these things are devilish and all these devilish things take control over you.

Humans are so stupid in some matters like we say that drinking is a bad habit, smoking is a bad habit, then he thinks that we are putting restrictions on him, we are taking away his freedom. He doesn’t think that he is fooling himself and all the elders and wise who have said this were they stupid? Why did they say so, thousand times they told that any type of addiction is wrong, addiction means that on your awareness something gets loaded by force and acts against your alertness. That is why it has been told that any type of addiction is to be avoided. At the time of Mohammed Sahib, this problem was not there, people did not smoke at that time, it was later when Nanak Sahib said why do you smoke? But people just do whatever has been asked to avoid. It is the straight forward fact that this is a poison so don’t take it. Because of this Vishuddhi Chakra gets caught up. Another reason for catching of Vishuddhi Chakra is by taking the unauthorised name of God. By taking the name of any God, by calling Him, Have you gone into the kingdom of God? You are living in the kingdom of human beings, at the most, you may call a policeman. At most you may call a minister. You have elected them and you are connected to them. You are calling God and giving trouble to Him.

Today my granddaughter had come, I will tell you about her, she is a realized soul. I went to their house once, there was a temple near their house, she was sleeping with me at night. She said, “Nani, God has run away from this temple long back, from morning till evening they keep saying Hare Ram, Hare Ram, Hare Ram, God has run away and even I am going to run away”. You should think yourself is it right to trouble like this Shri Ram who is the caretaker of this whole universe? If you go and call Morarji Desai like this two time surely you will be arrested. That is why whenever you take the name, with what right do you take it? Shri Ram’s name cannot be taken lightly. Only tho real gurus have the right to take the name of Shri Ram. Till your Guru has not given you the right, your realization you have no right to take His name. If you say that Gurus have written that name of God should be taken, they wrote it because probably they did not know that human beings are not realized. Most of the Gurus did not know that human beings are not realized. Before taking Realization, you have no right to take the name. It is unauthorized. Taking the name when you are not authorized also spoils your Vishuddhi chakra. And taking just any mantra from any of these roadside gurus, guru hanging from the tree, standing anywhere, you start following them. You ask them “How are they your Guru”? They will say “they have given us a name”. Even a donkey can give a name. Why do you need a Guru for that? Is giving name only the work of Guru or some other work also he can do? I can understand if it is Guru Nanak who gives you name.

Recently a person came from South Africa, he doesn’t know Sanskrit, all the more good, these Gurus taught him such names as “Inga”, “Pinga”, “Thinga”. Now say, for hours they keep reciting these names, and their Vishuddhi Chakra goes bad. Who has told them this? From where did do know which name is to be taken. The day you get this knowledge of names, all this false knowledge will be dropped out. This knowledge is not easy, which chakra is catching? what state is it? which name is to be taken? how is it to be taken? It’s deep knowledge of all these things. Till your kundalini is not awakened, how will you know which chakra of yours is catching? Or of the other person. Suppose your Vishuddhi Chakra is catching and you are taking the name of Shri Shivaji, all goes wrong. Vishuddhi Chakra was already bad because of unauthorized attempt and Shivaji gets annoyed because of the heart chakra.

This is a very deep knowledge (great shastra), and you must understand it. I am saying this because I have seen many people taking names as mantra and it is sheer stupidity on their part, I need to make it very clear to you, once Kabir said, “Karka manka chari ke, manka manka”. Probably no one understood Kabir, and without getting realization you can never understand him. You cannot understand Guru Nanak, he said, “Apaa ko cheena nahin, brahm ki kaya na jane”. We are doing all these things in illusion, that is why Vishuddhi Chakra has gone bad. If you are taking the name of any Deity, then you must know that your Vishuddhi Chakra will be caught up and also that chakra, where that Deity resides, will also go bad. That is why people ask “how did we fall sick?” “How did we get the problem?” Because both things are unauthorized. Suppose you are not a Doctor, you take a medicine and eat it, then you say “I have taken the medicine, how is it that I have fallen sick?” “Which medicine have you taken?” “From where have to take your Doctor’s degree?”, ” What have you understood?”. In this matter people still understand but in the matter of dharma, they think it is in their pocket, when required they can write a book on dharma, or write a book on kundalini when they feel like they will write about God, what’s wrong in writing any such kind of nonsense? There is no need to know the reality, no need to understand reality, it is ok to carry on with falsehood.

Sahaja yoga is a very big revolution. You have never believed in this, you just want to memorize things what Kabir said, people just memorize the sayings of Kabir from morning till evening. But now the time has come that whatever Kabir said is right before you. Japanese can never understand the philosophy of Zen, the way people of Japan have presented Zen if Zen sees their stupidity, he may commit suicide. They have made all of it so artificial that it is surprising to see it.

All the great seers and great people have been treated like this, till they were alive they were criticized and after they were no more people presented their ideas and things in a strange manner. You know there has been a very great seer in Delhi, Nizamuddin Sahib, he was a very great seer, he has no caste or creed. And what did they do to him, now when he is no more people present him the way they like, any nonsense they can say about him, because he is now no more, all this play of Vishuddhi Chakra must be understood. You must stand on truth at Vishuddhi Chakra.

There was person in Sahaja yoga, who took lot of interest in Sahaja yoga and got his realization also, but could not leave tobacco, although it is quite surprising that many times, I have met people from foreign, who have been alcohol addicts and addiction of many other things, real alcoholics, which can’t be compared to you, some people came to me who was almost unconscious, some of them can understand Hindi here and I know they can understand what I am saying. As these people got their realization, they left it all because when they tasted the nectar then they could not take that, all by themselves they left it, there was no need to give them any lecture, but there was one person who could not leave it. One day he came to me and said “Mother I don’t understand, whenever I sit for meditation, my face bloats up like the face of Hanumana” Hanumanji is a very jovial deity, and His ways are so hilarious. I said “Really?”, He said, “Yes I feel I am looking like Hanumanji, You please cure me, what is happening to me in Sahaja Yoga”. I said, “Do you take tobacco?” He said, “How do you know?”  I said, “That is why, if you are seeing Hanumanji, I understood, these are all His tricks, you just now hold your ears and ask for forgiveness, Also promise me, everything will be alright.” All this works out on its own when we have got enlightenment then how can darkness remain in us?

Whatever greatness I say about this Vishuddhi Chakra it will be less, because it is for this chakra that you got your neck upright. Now to bow this neck before just anyone is very wrong. You should bow this only before God or His representative. But we bow it before everyone, tomorrow if someone comes to ask for the vote you will bow, this is very wrong, not only that we have bowed before many wrong gurus, and it becomes very difficult for such people. Then when I tell them that your Guru was wrong, these people get annoyed. There is no need to get annoyed, I have nothing to do with them, I talk only of your benevolence, if your Guru is alright, I have all respect for him. If not ok then I will say it, a Mother’s responsibility is to tell Her children the whole thing, why will She hide it? The only difference is that Kabir said it sternly but I tell with love.

I am a Mother and a Mother is wiser in such matters. If She has to give Castor oil She will give it in chocolate. That is why it is all working out, whatever is wrong is wrong. If a human being has to achieve God and if this is the destination, and from this only the revolution will come and this is only meaningful rest all is of no use. And all that is useless has no meaning, no meaning in the life of a human being. When you will understand the meaning of your life, when you will realize that you are the part and parcel of this universe, the Virata, when you will understand the importance of your life and you will give importance and respect to your being, then kundalini will itself rise and salute you, in a fraction of a second you will get your realization. If you have not given respect to yourself, if you have not realized your value, you have bowed your self before wrong, you have to bow only before God and on one else.

Now after talking about Vishuddhi Chakra I will talk about Agnya Chakra. Agnya Chakra is the middle of the optic nerve, the crossing of the optic chasma. It is very subtle, this is what is called the third eye. Those who open the third eye don’t know that it is the bhoots eye. Near this Agnya Chakra as shown ego and superego are there. Because of catch in this chakra, many people either see some light or some vision or something else. People feel very happy and think they have been blessed. Such people do not have anything special in their life. Their life is hopeless, only they think they have seen God, have some vision, have seen this or seen that. I had told you earlier that on our right side is supra-conscious and collective supra-conscious area, and on our left side is collective subconscious. So, if you do not keep in balance on this chakra then you will either go to this side or to that side. The moment you go on this site you will see any one of the five elements.

Now you know about a drug by the name of LSD, it is a strange kind of drug, it will not take you to the subconscious, but will take you to supra-conscious. By drinking this drug you will see such different kinds of miracles that you will be surprised what kind of world you are in. Now, this movement is such that when these people come to my program, they cannot see Me, they see only sunlight because that is my future and they see that. Some can see the only wind. Some see the only sun, I am not visible. It happens much time when I am travelling by train, suddenly someone will stand up and start watching me in the wilderness. Those who are in subconscious they can see the past, that I was so and so or so and so, this is all wrong. Whatever is the present you should be in that, you should see only that, if you see something else then you are outside, not in the centre. When you are outside then only you see such things, when you are inside then you do not see anything. Now all that you see outside means that someone is taking you out, you are not going, so you should be careful, you should not call it grace, this is not divine, but this is the movement of your attention when you go to the extremes.

Many people take out kumkum from there hands, some take out money, some say suddenly Shri Ganesha appeared in their house, there is one person in Mumbai, in his house idols appear studded with diamonds. He asked Me, “What to do with them?” I said submerge in the water, he said “Why?” I said, “All these idols are of unsatisfied people, they prayed to these and they got no blessings, so they think these are neglected from families and have been put here, this is like what they say ‘Bhanumati ka pitara'”. If such things are put here you people will say, “Oh wow, God has put these”, God has no other work? Is this His work to give you these useless diamonds and so? He will keep spreading these stones before you and has He no sense that He will throw before you such useless things which have no relation with the Param.

Or there are other types of people who are in the subconscious, they say that the spirit has come in their body, the Devi has come. They start moving and making sound “ghun ghun ghun” and say the Devi has come. Now people come near the Devi, put kumkum on her and ask the number of the horse. Now you think, Devi has no work? Now She will tell you the number of the horse? This is how they have insulted the Param tatwa in this world, and there are many who follow such false people, I have seen a person near Nagpur, known as Gulab Baba. He was working in shipping corporation as a purser, his father was a very decent man, this man never uses to do any work. When he came back from there, he started his wrong work again, during this period his father expired. He went to his mother sold her jewellery, sold his wife’s jewellery, sold his house, sold everything and went missing.

His mother came to Me and asked me if he was alive, I said yes he is alive, that devil is not going to die. She said now what to do, I have lost everything, where can I go, so I said let’s see what can be done for you, will try to settle you at someplace. Then she came after one year and said that he sent me a lot of money, I have taken back my house and now I am comfortable, but I doubt where he is and he doesn’t know how to earn money. So I told her you to find out about him. Then the next year when I came here, she told me “Mother I have asked him to take back all his money because he is doing something wrong. These days he is known as Gulab Baba near Nagpur”. Did I say really? His real name is Chotu Nimbalkar. You will be surprised to know that all cars from Birlaji are going to him. To this Chotu Nimbalkar. People have become such stupids that there are no limits. And I sent a word to him that I am coming to Nagpur to see Gulab Baba, so for one month he went missing from there. There is nothing false in all this, and when people announced that Mataji Nirmala Devi is coming for one month he went missing from Nagpur.

And all these big, big people send their motor cars, send fruits, silver utensils were being sent. These are all signs of hypnosis, these people do hypnosis and loot your valuables, and ruin your wife and children. This all works out from Agnya Chakra, many people work on Agnya Chakra like this. There is one more who is the avatar of Rakt Beej, he is sakshat Rakt Beej, they put their finger on your Agnya and say Divine light has come into you. You feel excited that a spark has come, he was caught in smuggling, doing all sorts of wrongs things. Now his photographs are being printed. This is Rakt Beej, all his followers who came to me are suffering from leukaemia. This is his identification. This is how they work on your Agnya Chakra, by touching and rotating it they put such a devil that you get the disease of leukaemia in you. I cannot explain to you his wrongdoings, in spite of all having exposed in newspapers, still, there are thousands and thousands of his followers. I cannot understand the mind of human beings. All these Maha Devil people about whom everything has been printed, still people don’t leave them, they continue to follow and that is why this Agnya Chakra gets caught up. Because we have bowed before wrong people, never allow anyone to touch your Agnya  chakra. Till you have not experienced collective consciousness. This collective consciousness when gets enlightened in you then you can feel others, you can feel their chakras, feel your own chakras and you can cure them.

Sit down Sir, I have to go very far, what is this, sit down. If you have to go, move out silently, do not disturb all others. Now, this Agnya Chakra is very important, we put sindoor on this chakra, why should we put sindoor, nowadays women don’t put sindoor, I don’t know why. I don’t understand. What happens with sindoor? Because women are weak from heart, by putting sindoor, it is very protective, this red colour protects from these what I say spirits. They know this is the path of the Mother, it is protected, even in the Bible it is mentioned that all the chosen ones will have this mark on their forehead. They will be recognized by this. It is so important, for women to put it. They are protected from satanic forces by this. It is not written in the Bible that you should put it but it is mentioned that this is the identification of those people who are the chosen ones. Now, this chakra is where there is sakshat Christ, Christ is none other, he is the incarnation of Shri Ganesha, how He was made? If you read Devi Bhagwat by Markandeya, you will understand. He was made as Maha Vishnu first and was described as how he the basis of this Universe and how Shri Krishna who is the father of Christ, that is why He is called Christ. They call Him Christ-like it is the surname and Yeshodaji’s name is used and He is also called as Yeshu. That is how Radhaji herself kept his name, and Radhaji is His mother.

So, what is the fight about? Because Krishna had said that this Pranav, this power never gets destroyed, He took His incarnation and in this incarnation, at the time of resurrection, He proved that when this sakshat Pranav takes birth as the reality it never gets destroyed. Many great saints took birth, in a body except Him because, in reality, He is Pranav, Ganesh is sakshat Pranav, when Om takes birth it will not get destroyed, to show this, that is why He came for a small time on this earth and then went away. Now whether Christ is there or not, and Pranav is there or not, this Shri Ganesh is there or not, how do we prove it, not because I am saying you should believe it. When your kundalini rises and when you raise the kundalini of others and if this chakra opens, and if you say the Lord’s prayer which Christ had taught then only this works as a mantra here, none other. Like I had told you that all the gurus are settled around our Nabhi Chakra, without taking their names the kundalini does not cross the Nabhi Chakra, similarly, when it gets stuck here, only His name is to be taken. Now whatever I told you about Gandhiji, you will understand slowly, even he said the same thing.

Also here two great incarnations reside on the forehead, one is Buddha and the other is Mahavira. These are both very special, for guidance to human beings. These both are Luv and Kush. Luv and Kush took birth as Buddha and Mahavira, both have the same mother. Both these Luv and Kush were born when work was being done on Nabhi chakra along with Chandra Nadi and Surya Nadi, this I am telling you the subtle side of it, you may check this when your kundalini is awakened. On Chandra Nadi and Surya Nadi they were born separately, Buddha was born on Surya Nadi and Mahavira was born on Chandra Nadi. That is why Mahavirji described in details about hell and Buddha talked a lot about light. Both these Nadis exist within us and as they go up one goes here and the other goes here. That is why Buddha resides here and Mahavira resides here. They both occupy a very important place. Because only these two men came in the form of human beings and settled this high next to Him. Do you know that they both came again on this earth, because when they saw that the meaning of ahimsa was completely misunderstood by people and it was twisted in a wrong way, you know that Jains save the bed bugs so that they drink the blood of the brahmin so that he becomes a bed bug, what is this? Can this be ahimsa? Now am I going to give Realization to bed bugs? Or to mosquitoes? Or to chickens? It is for human beings. You trouble one person with bed bugs and think you are being dharmic?

All these kinds of vague ideas that started spreading in the society, and even for Buddha except Zen, let’s not talk of Vidhitama, he was turned out of India, rest all the Buddhists, what have they done, they started worshipping His teeth and everything else too, whereas Buddha said that as you start talking about God, human beings get involved into unnecessary things. His talk about atheism is ok. If you get Realized today and If I do not tell you about God then even you will also talk about atheism. Only after talking about the knowledge of spirit should you talk about knowledge of God. He understood this fact and so, he first talked about atheism, and then about God, because if you talk of God first then you worship a rakshasa and believe he is God. You may worship a mammal and call it an Ishwar. That is why he first talked about atheism, because the level at which human being is, he talked very perfect, very proper, he said if without knowing about Spirit, without the true knowledge, if he worships anyone, he will definitely go in the wrong direction. In his talk on atheism, there was a very big suggestion, a compromise, a very wise thing because he understood what level humans were. He did not talk about God at all. It was very much at a later stage. Because there is a lot of probability that people would have said that he does not believe in God so remove him. there was a lot of possibility of that. But when he saw his disciples doing all stupid things, he again took birth, you will be surprised, do you know where? Can you tell? Hasan and Hussain, who were killed in Karbala were no other than Mahavira and Buddha.

But who will tell all this, now who can make you understand this, now this responsibility has come on Me. So, I am telling you. I am telling you this because when your kundalini is awakened, then if your ego and superego are caught up, then you have to take the name of Buddha and Mahavira, these are two of the rudras in Akadasha Rudra. These are very great rudras, and when the last judgement will take place then many more will come, you will know about these two then, you will see that it is difficult to get rid of ego and superego. Then if you are a Hindu, you will have to take the name of Hassan and Hussain, and if you are a Muslim then you have to take the name of Buddha and Mahavira. Without these, you cannot get rid of ego and superego, especially ego. Now these two nadis above which the pre-conscious rotates, is controlled by Shri Hanumanji. He is on our right side and he is the one who had swallowed the Sun. On the left side, it is Bhairava Nath who moves about. These are called in the Bible as St. Gabriel and St. Michael. There is no difference in these, their unity, their similarity, you can understand in Sahaja yoga. All that I am telling you I can prove it.

After this is Sahasrara, it is made of one thousand nadis, all around the limbic area, now the doctors argue that there are 992 nadis, nerves are there. Now if they have not counted them then what is then what is the fight about? When these get enlightened then they glow like a flame and are very peaceful flames of different colours can be seen, and in the centre of these flames, you can see a thread like a thing which is part of our limbic area. When the kundalini comes out of this limbic area then you get moksha. This rising of kundalini is called as surati, when this happens then we get collective conscious, and this limbic area is the kingdom of God, when this happens the human beings gets bodh, not by just listening to lectures, and this is a very subtle thing which should happen, the deity is Adi Shakti, sakshat Adi Shakti, the power is of Shri Adi Shakti, and the deity is the Kalki which is nishkalanka, this incarnation is yet to be born and whatever is happening now is the preparation for its coming. When the preparations will be complete only then it will incarnate.

Now I have explained about all chakras in detail and now I wish we can do some meditation and after that if you have got your realization it will be good and even if you have not got it there is no problem, I have come to Delhi for some days, then I will go to Bombay and then go back to London. You please all come there everyday morning and evening there will be the program, and try to get your realization. I assure you that if you get your Realization then all your physical, mental, spiritual and family problems will be solved. This is Mother’s way of putting the chocolate, but the main thing is to get the param tatwa, ‘sat chitt anand’ is what you should get. May God give you wisdom and give you that which you have been seeking in all your past lives passing through different yonis and come here.


Today at the end of this program at Gandhi Bhavan, I want to first tell you about Gandhiji, and why Gandhi was so important, perhaps you have never realized what a tremendous instrument Gandhiji was.

At the age of seven years, he just picked me up from my family. And I stayed with him, very, very close, extremely close and he uses to call me as ‘Nepali’, that was my name and everybody knew me by that name.

After forty years or say forty-five years or so, suddenly I met Kamal Nain Bajaj, at the wedding of his own son, and I went to him and I said “Do you recognize me?” and he said “What Nepali, how are you here?” and just tears started flowing down my eyes.

That was Gandhiji. He was a tremendously hard taskmaster. And I always use to say “That you can be hard, but how can you be hard with all these people?” He would make us get up at 4’0 clock, it was very easy for me to get up at 4’0, because you see my body has no habits, I can get up anytime and sleep any time, but I use to feel for others that at their age, Maulana Azad get up at 4’0 and they had to clean their utensils, they had to even he asked them as to clean their bathrooms and the W.C and everything with their own hand, he was a tremendously hard taskmaster, but an extremely loving and compassionate person.

He, as just now Gregoire has said, definitely he always used to talk to me in a way as if I was his grandmother you see, and he uses to discuss things with me most surprisingly from all others, in a way as if I was a great adviser to everyone. He uses to make me sit and said that guidance can be had better from some children than from older people.

Even when I again went to Gandhi Ashram this time Madasa told to me the same thing “Do you remember he used to say so?”, I said “I remember that. But somehow, he had recognized me, and he knew about me, same I would say about Shastriji, who had recognized me and use to really respect me, that’s another man we have not been able to know, I wish there were some people somewhere near their levels.

Some people were absolutely standing on edges of swords, they would not tolerate anything that was wrong for themselves, the first thing they had was to keep themselves upright in dharma and Gandhiji used to really appraise himself day to day ask the question is it in dharmatit? is it in dharmatit? is it in love? He was tremendous … and the thing that I have learnt from him I should say is one of the things which I would have never understood otherwise is his sense of public money. Actually I have no sense of money at all, I am so horrid, I do not know what is bank and I do not know how to cash cheque, I am still though I mean, I must have cashed lots of cheques, but I don’t know even today, if you want to teach me, I just can’t learn, I am no good for it, but I have seen Gandhiji’s sense of public money, so clean, so clean, and so sharp that anybody who has lived with him, I cannot understand how can they take to this kind of cheap dealing with public money.

Once we had a meeting of all the big leaders and they came to Gandhi Ashram where we all were staying and some boys were there looking after them, giving pamphlets and thing and suddenly Gandhiji realized that its very late and they should have their lunch in the Ashram itself, so he said that why not have your lunch here and they said alright if you think so we will have our lunch, so he got up, he always had the bhandara keys with him. Because Ba was not there, so he came down and he told us that let us weigh food for them and take it out, so there we had to weigh according to the number of people we had to, so he said I am a pucka baniya , you must properly weigh everything and take it out and then it took about 15 minutes to do all that, then again he took the keys, put it back and went on with his work. I think it was Maulana Azad or someone who was there, who said: “Bapu I never knew that you will, we never knew that you will take so much trouble for our sake, we would have gone back little late and had our lunch there”. He said “Trouble, what trouble is it, he said no, the way you got up and take the way, so cautious and careful”, you know the words he said, even to get to say I feel so much touched, he said “Do you know, this is the blood of my people, I cannot allow it to be wasted or in any way spilt”, just imagine, he said, “Yeh dane dane mere bachon kay ghar se aa rahe hain”, I mean I cannot forget his sense of accounts, and even I have seen this in Shastri ji was saying, I mean there was nothing like a double standard, on the contrary the closer you went to them you respected them much better, because they were so clean, so clean and they saw to it that they maintain that cleanliness and that’s all.

We are really very lucky to have such great people born in this country of ours, only the trouble is that you have forgotten what great contribution they have done, that Gandhiji was a person who gave ahimsa to save us from this foreign domination. In a such a unique manner he laid down the basis for Sahaja yoga actually, in every way he laid down, for example, if you see his ideas, economic ideas are absolutely in tune with Sahaja yoga.

Now, after the industrial revolution and industrial revolution as they call it in the west, people have gone so far in creating an aggressive economy that they are astounded the way now things are working out in the west, the aggression that started in the industry of machinery is now directed towards the human beings themselves.

In England you’ll be amazed which is the soberest country among all others, in England every week two children are killed by their parents, is the statistics, can you imagine? Good children, they are not illegitimate children. No family is safe from this aggression, the aggression is now towards oneself, is absolutely self-destroying, the machinery, the giant, that started creating things also made human beings machines and these machines had no feelings within them and the feelings started drying up and drying them to such an extent that human beings have become feelingless, they have no emotions left, I don’t know if Gandhi ji could have sensed too that extent, because you know it is difficult for a saint to see the forces of evil how far they can move.

It’s a very difficult thing, but he did see something of it so he was warning that don’t go for heavy industries, heavy industries are very dangerous and he through preached that try to keep medium pace in industries. With all this advancement in the west, you’ll be surprised the condition is such that you cannot get anything fresh. The food that you get is nothing but God knows what kind of a chemistry they have adopted, that all the time you are eating chemicals, you do not feel you are eating any fruit, if you talk to people you feel they are stunned and they are shocked, they are afraid of each other, there is no love, there is no trust, there is no give and take, it’s such a ridiculous thing, absurd society that has been created that it is important for us, the so-called developing countries to know where have they fallen, through what teachings they have come and stand by and see for yourself that when you are trying to use science and you see these industrial achievements of other countries as a tool to our advancement you should know that they can completely destroy us as they have destroyed those people.

Their destruction is not from outside so much of course it is in a way, the way we have created Hiroshima and all that, but the destruction is from within and that destruction is set in such a big way that it’s impossible now to talk. The only way is to turn the whole thing into a new dimension by which you can control and that is only possible through Sahaja Yoga. Thank God my husband was elected and I went to London as we have now a base. Gandhi ji is the man who has created a base for dharma in this country of modern times. If you see his bhajanawali you’ll be amazed it is all based on the different chakras, one after another all that bhajanawali starts from one to another it’s just like how we do it for our kundalini awakening. It is based one after another from one chakra to another chakra to another chakra, though has not mentioned it anywhere.

Apart from that in Sahaja Yoga we have to take account of all the incarnations, of all the prophets, of all the great primordial masters, who came on this earth and adjust accordingly to different movements of kundalini, because according to Sahaja Yoga all these incarnations are within us and they help us and we have to awaken them. Same thing Gandhi ji has done, is to tell us that we have to know Quran, we have to know Bible, we have to know Gita, we have to know all these great scriptures and awake people and integrate, of course, that part is left to me is the actualization of what he wanted to do.

So, he definitely has prepared the base, economic base then political base also. He never believed in aggression never and he said that sharing should be taught, he always believed even capitalism should be conquered through enlightenment, though he was so busy with this emergency job of saving the whole nation that he could not pay much attention to the subtler side of Sahaja Yoga which I call awakening of the Kundalini or self-realization. But he always talked about it, he always said about it, most surprising he’s the only one as I have seen so far who was not doing self-realization or working out self-realization but was so close to it and could see clearly that self-realization is the only way for the emancipation of human beings. His values and his styles were so correct.

As a Mother also as a child I was a Mother throughout, I would always feel that Gandhi ji was too strict and I always use to say that “You are too strict I just can’t bear it”. Tears used to come into my eyes. I said this is a bit too much. He said no we are in an emergency, we have to be self-disciplined, we have to be disciplined and we have to tell them.

Once I told him “Bapu, if you, if you want to discipline people why not discipline them from within?”, he said “How could they?”, I said, “It is very easy, you can do it”. He said “Not just now, not just now, first of all, let us be free if we are not free what can we enjoy? We cannot talk about it people will say we are not even free how can we talk of freedom of spirit. We should be free from foreign domination”, I would say “In emergency supposing we use a boat to cross over then we do not carry the boat over our heads but we do carry the experiences of our crossing and those experiences have been great and the greatness about Gandhiji was that he created great only by his personal character and by his dynamic, absolutely dynamic leaders, and the era when this has happened I have seen those people were absolutely genuine, you cannot be, how sacrificing they were.

I have seen my own father that today I think he was a legendary man if I tell you how great he was, I mean in every way I cannot find a single fault in his life as a leader, but today it is very different and very sad that those who were supposed to be Gandhiji’s followers, the other day only I talked to somebody that why not start with the basic education because we do not live in the city, why should we have this education which doesn’t go to the villages, so he said “It’s difficult, very difficult it’s a very difficult proposition and all that, I was amazed he was a Gandhian, how could he talk like that, it is not at all difficult to adopt Gandhiji’s ways in India.

As Gregoire has told you I have been to China, and Mao has definitely followed Gandhiji, he has copied everything that Gandhiji has done. I was amazed because when I was there I saw even Magan Chula are being practiced by him, all the things that Gandhiji thought of he has done and he has improved China, and today China is ahead of tiger, people are now afraid you see, this Tiger has now awakened, it has now got its own power and this is what Gandhiji had dreamt imagine that Mao should use it, and while our people, I don’t know, I should blame the bureaucrats, or the Congressmen or the politicians, who never understood that Gandhiji was the most practical man and now Sahaja yoga I am sure will re-establish his values, definitely it has to be established. too much of asking, too much of elaborations, too much of materialism makes you a slave of material.

You’ll be amazed we are supposed to be poor people there are supposed to be but they are not, in London or in America American people are such miserly people that I am really shocked, absolutely shockingly misers, to spend five rupees for us in nothing for somebody who comes to our house, but the Americans are such miserly people that even if they have to spend one rupee, they’ll think ten times, same in England I find and same in another place, terribly miserly calculative, I have known some people you go to their house and they count heads and give you sandwiches accordingly, horrible and they are very rich people, they’ll have crystals, they’ll have silver, they’ll have everything and they behave in such a ridiculous manner all the time they are thinking about money, how to make this money, how to make that money, how to keep it, you cannot imagine this affluence has made them so poor absolutely absurd.

I always felt really that through this material gains they might become a sort of satisfied people and will take to less materialism, but it’s not so, it’s just the opposite, people have taken to materialism as a religion and it is so maddening, so maddening that you can’t imagine. You are judged absolutely by the materialistic ideas you have, the value, it is such a mad world that if you stay there, then only you will realize how madly they are.

So, as a result, these people that are here you can see that they revert, they could not bear it anymore, they said they will get out of it but still the clutches of materialism are so great they have to live with them, only through Sahaja Yoga they have been able to establish themselves fully and steady themselves, I would say these are the great pioneers who will change the whole of west, they are the foundations of tomorrow beautiful world, otherwise the west is now a wasteland, nothing but a wasteland I can tell you. I hope these people will take to Sahaja Yoga in the right earnest and will spread the message of Sahaja Yoga and will create that atmosphere as just now Dr Pant said the beautify, transforming atmosphere, in all these western countries run about, work it out and bring the dawn of the new world in which we all live together as human beings and as real brothers and sisters.

Sahaj Yoga has done a great service to humanity that it has given you antar yoga within yourself, the insight, it has given you antar yoga between the Sahaja yogis and it is so great that some of these people have been before in India many times. They have never been able to come close to Indians because all the Indians those whom they met they are all westernized without the tails. They had the same ideas, the same philosophy, the same everything and they were, they were enamoured by the west and they were just praising the western culture and rest of them. For the first time they said when they have come to Indian villages and the way they have embraced these villagers and the way they danced together and the way they enjoyed, this is the real antar yoga, the real love between all of you, the real enjoyment and the real oneness that one feels. It is not just talking or saying of ideal things that we are brothers and sisters and you are saying you are all brothers and sisters and nothing of that exists, you just become it’s the actualization, you cannot just help it helping another person.

For example, now if I am sitting here and if I say that I have cured, I am doing no good, I am not doing it for any obligation, I am doing it because you are part and parcel of my being, I have to jolly well cure you if I want to feel you all. I can feel you all within myself this is the actualization of collective consciousness, and once that happens you just start feeling the oneness and today, I am going to talk about Collective Consciousness to you through Sahaja Yoga how we get it, it’s an actualization and not brainwashing or lecture. This is the difference, the way people have been talking we talk before it happens, but now the time has come for this to happen.