Seminar (Hindi-English) – New Delhi – 13 March 1979.

[Section in English of 11 minutes 46. Starts at 1:07:54]

Sahaja Yogi: Mother, do we have to concentrate on particular plexus?
Shri Mataji: No. Nothing. That’s what I’m trying to tell you.
In Sahaja Yoga, it is a spontaneous thing, you don’t have to do anything at all. It is a spontaneous process. The Kundalini itself rises and tells the person who’s giving you Realisation that this is the problem with the gentleman. So, the gentleman who is seeking his ‘sadaka’ [accomplishment] feels nothing about it but the other fellow, the one who is giving Realisation feels. So, he can manoeuvre because he’s a Realised soul, the vibrations are flowing, he can manoeuvre, he can give a bandhan, he can give nourishment to that chakra and, can make that chakra all right and raise the Kundalini higher. It is the one who is Realised can do it.

After Realisation, now many people have taught that you much concentrate here [Agnya Chakra]. It’s a wrong idea. Absolutely wrong, I don’t know who has taught this because if you concentrate here, this is just a window, which should not be, at all, opened. You should go straight-forward, take your ‘chitta’ (attention) upward through the Sahasrara. Or if you concentrate here your attention will go out of the window and that is what happens to people who try to concentrate there, they start seeing visions.
Yesterday only, there was one gentleman who was saying, (brief dialogue in Hindi), so what happens, you start seeing visions, then you move to the left and right. You go to the Supra-conscious side then you will see lights, this/that.  If you go to the left-hand side you will see all the previous lives of, say, Shri Rama, Sita, this/that, you see the history. You have passed through that so you see all that. You have to be in the present and for that you have to come out of your Sahasrara. So, all this is wrong.

Sahaja Yogi: About seeing Lights.
Shri Mataji: Even if you see that, that is, you are not seeing yours because you do not see. If it is your own you don’t see it. You see, if you are sitting inside you don’t see it from outside. If you are seeing something that means you are outside. When you are inside you do not see, you must be seeing somebody else’s. Not yours own.
Sahaja Yogi: Re: seeing with closed eyes.
Shri Mataji: With the closed eyes also you go into the Collective on the Supra-conscious and you can see. You’ll be amazed, people who take LSD, they cannot see Me, they just see light. They do not see Me. They just see light.

Sahaja Yogi: Astral bodies.
Shri Mataji: That is absolutely bhoot. Astral body is a ‘bhoot-vidya’ [dead-spirits knowledge). (Interjection.) That too is bhoot. Absolutely bhoot. This, the levitation is bhoot. All this is bhoot. Are dead spirits. Astral body is, it’s a very funny thing, why can’t you understand? It’s very simple: how God is interested in making you astral? But people are really mad after it.
I’ll tell you, from America, three big scientists came to see Me and they said, “You make us fly in the air.” [Laughter] They all know about it. So, I told them, “Why do you want to fly in the air, you are already flying up to the moon?” But they said, “No, no, we want to do it.” And when I asked them that, “Why are you so insistent, you’ll become a slave of those bhoots and things”, so they said, “No, no, Mother, still you must do it for us.” I said, “Why?” “Because” they said, “Russia is doing like this so we should also do it.” So, these are mad people. If they are doing at national level, what am I to do? They are all going into the ‘bhoot-vidya’. They should not! That’s a very funny thing you know!
And, who told them to come to Me is the man who suffered from this disease and I cured him. Imagine that fellow should tell him I should give some bhoots! It’s a very wrong thing. Levitation, all this is bhoot-vidya.
You see, removing matter from here and there is not God’s concern at all! He only moves their Kundalini, that’s all!

Sahaja Yogi: Mother, does it help you in your particular professional field in the world? Or does it mean that any person who reaches a certain state (Hindi) eventually becomes an ascetic or something like that?
Shri Mataji: No, no, no. Not at all! No, no, no, no, no. No way. Asceticism is not for Sahaja Yogis. You should lead a very normal married life. Absolutely nothing like that.
Now in professional field or say in material field or whatever you call, it is so important at this stage because your priorities are different, you see but they will change gradually. But when these priorities are also there, I can tell you, definitely materially also you improve because – yoga-shema-mahamyam – that promise is fulfilled. (Interjection.) Yoga-shema-mahamyam: ‘yoga’ means ‘the meeting with God’. Once it happens that union, that plus after that is ‘shema’ is ‘wellbeing’. “Both I’ll look after” says Shri Krishna in Gita. All right? But first should be ‘yoga‘.
Now questions are over?

Sahaja Yogi: How can you recognise that a person is …?
Shri Mataji: Very easy because you can see it from the vibrations. You are a Realised soul, now you have got vibrations, very easy you can make out a person from his vibrations. If a person is a bad soul, you won’t even stand near that person. You’ll feel that ants are coming. Some people are like scorpion. You stand near them you feel there’s scorpion coming out of them. So, you will make it out, not difficult, after Realisation.

Sahaja Yogi: We in India being religious people have some concept of Kundalini. How do these in medical sciences have this concept? Do they recognise it?
Shri Mataji: Medical … [medical science]? They have no eyes bhe-ta [child] to see, they have to go into meditation. I have told these people, “You go and talk to these doctors.” I have given three lectures there. They want me to give another lecture. I’m fed up of giving lectures. I’m saying, “Why don’t you take your Realisation and understand it?”
Now we have two doctors here who have come. One is a Russian and another is an Indian who is practicing in London. And they say that, “After knowing these subtle centres and all that then we know that what are the, what these centres are managing are the gross things. Once you know how to handle the centres you can manage whole thing.” But they don’t want to listen to Me. Only one condition, of course I put, that when you learn Sahaja Yoga you cannot charge money for curing. That maybe the thing! I don’t know.
It has absolute relevance with your medical sciences. Science is nothing but a little part of what I’m telling you.

Sahaja Yogi: Practice of Hatha Yoga and even as a mere system of exercise after Realisation?
Shri Mataji: Exercises are no good of this kind. You see, you must understand the science of Hatha Yoga. Hatha Yoga is Ashtanga Yoga, which is to be practiced before marriage in a forest with a guru. Gradually, you see, you are cleansed and the guru is a Realised soul who looks after you and gradually he does all that.
Now, I would say ‘yoga’ is only Sahaja Yoga. The rest of them are preparations.
Yoga is the way where you meet, is the Maha Yoga. Where you ‘meet’ is the Yoga. The rest of it is, supposing you have to come to Delhi, till you have not reached Delhi, one mile away, you are not in Delhi. So, you can come by a bullock cart, you can come by a jet plane or you can come by such a thing that just shoots off! If somebody can do that, that is better than to do this slow movement.
In Hatha Yoga, Ashtanga Yoga is there and gradually you see, they are all human beings, and they work it out in such a manner that every chakra is cleansed gradually and a person is put to it. And, he has to lead an ascetic life before marriage, he has to do all these things and is a very difficult thing.
But if you say that asanas [postures], I’m definitely against it because you must know what asana is to be done.
We also use asanas in Sahaja Yoga but only whatever is required. Now if your throat is not all right why should you do stomach exercise? Means your throat will be bad in any case and stomach will also go out.

Hatha Yoga, Hatha Yogis are rather difficult for Realisation, I must say. Those who do these exercises are rather difficult. They are! I mean, that’s a fact! Because all these things are not to be done, like Raja Yoga also not to be done. It is a spontaneous happening. Everything works out inside. As I told you that a car which has not yet started, no use moving it’s wheels or anything.
Sahaja Yoga encompasses all these yogas because by this your spontaneous happening takes place. Now, it could be that I cleanse you completely, sit down for hours together, cleanse you first and then raise the Kundalini. Another way would be just to raise your Kundalini, enlighten you and then you cleanse yourself.
But the way people are doing Hatha Yoga, I’m against, absolutely because they just do not know what to do. They do all the chakras – only thing you can do is thin down at the most with that. Other things, I do not know what is the advantage because you get, I’ve seen Hatha Yogis are always having heart and they become very dry people. For somebody who’s a Hatha Yoga, I’m sure his wife must be having a terrible time with him. He becomes a very dry person, very hot tempered. We have had people like that, you know them, Vishwamitra got after Harish Chandra; Durvasa; they just give you sharp eyes.

These people are not going to do any kalyan. They have no love, nothing, very dry because you go to the right-hand side. Phure-rama-skaras – another thing. If you overdo it, you can become a very dry person. Extremely dry! I mean such bores they are! You just can’t talk to them for more than five minutes. And if you sit there for the sixth minute, they may hit you hard. [Laughter]

Mostly they have divorces and things like that. Very dry! They never smile. They do not believe in smiling, laughing. They are not open hearted. These are the dhoshas [physical, emotional, mental, spiritual characteristics]. But emotional side we do not see. We just want health. What’s the use of having so called health, which is full of such a mind, which doesn’t even smile, doesn’t have any reception for others. Horrible personality. I mean, I have seen so many “pallavas” [unsure] who come to Me and say, “Mother give us peace.” Such people can be horrid. Absolutely horrid people!

[End of English section.]