Agnya Chakra and Lord Jesus Christ

Philippa Pullar’s House, London (England)

1979-04-16 Agnya and Lord Jesus Christ, Version 2, Part 1 & 2 HD, 91'
Download video - mkv format (standard quality): Watch on Youtube: Watch and download video - mp4 format on Vimeo: Transcribe/Translate oTranscribeUpload subtitles


Talk in Philippa Pullar’s House, Barnes Common, London (UK), 16 April 1979. EASTER TIME

Asking questions? What is it? There are a lot of people here Mother that have not met you..

Yes I know, let them come forward..if it is awkward or uncomfortable..also sometimes people make you stand on your is nothing of the kind…there is no circus…nothing of the kind…neither you should have a body of a particular type…not important….

The main thing is you should be comfortable so that your attention does not go to things which are of just useless you should be absolutely comfortable..if you can take a chair..let them take a would be a very good idea. Those who can sit on the ground, are all right? No hard and fast rule about it..sit this way or that way..nothing of the kind…

It is simplest of all…easiest of all…but we are not easy, we are complicated, that’s the problem but otherwise it’s the easiest thing that should happen to all of you and you are born to get it. It’s your right to have it, it is something that has to happen also, like the spring has to come in the same way….(some seating arrangement sounds)

So on the tree of life we have to have spring time also…it’s part of the (unclear)

[Are you all right?


You have to have any time also. It’s a part of the whole cycle.

[A Yogi: Sorry …]

…I had to …


[SHRI MATAJI aside: It’s all right.] this may be omited completely

People are expecting Sahaja Yoga, no doubt, when they talk, when they write, when they express themselves, you can see very clearly that they are expecting some sort of a breakthrough- sort of, they have reached a certain frantic condition in which they expect there has to be something. Otherwise, how can they explain the creation? How can they explain God? How can they explain that there is some force which is looking after us? So, everybody is expecting some sort of a breakthrough. Not only that, but there is also a search for a breakthrough. You can see that very clearly, everywhere. But the trouble is, you see, one has to understand that it is God’s job, not yours. That it is to be done by God, not by you. That is very difficult to accept.

But when we accept our own life as a human being, we should know that we became human beings by ourselves or by God? We could not become human beings ourselves, from amoeba stage, can we? Can any amoeba try to become even a turtle? It cannot. So, how did we become human beings? By some sort of a force or some sort of an energy or some sort of a guiding hand which brought forth this happening that we became human beings.

And in the same way if you have to become super-human-beings or we have to become something else more than this, or our awareness has to achieve something more – it has to happen. Only thing, if we had not spoiled ourselves, our own being – which is perfectly all right – there is no need to do anything extra-ordinary. Because in this frantic search we might ruin ourselves, we might ruin our instruments which are within us, because there is an under-current within us which works out all these things. Like the seed has its own femur, in the same way there is something within you also playing; you should work it out. But when you try to do something about it – it gets spoiled.

This is a very simple thing but we cannot get out of the idea, because we [seek in our wisdom ?.] by our effort. We think we do this, as Sahaja Yogi, but do we? See these flowers, how do they come up? What is there that you have done to create them? We do something dead. We do not do anything living, we cannot do anything living. Now just stupid this, what do you think have we done? Nothing at all! Everything that is dead we are converting into different forms. Say, the tree is dead so we make a furniture , we say, “Oh we are great, we have done this furniture”. It’s from dead to dead. What living work have you done? Once we realize that we have done nothing living so the living God has to do this. He has to do it and he will do it through his own – he can seed, he can grow . He is not going to make you do it. This he has never asked you to do anything. Why should he now trouble you? He has created you in his own love, this beautiful universes just for you to enjoy. But this is all a brain wash as long as you do not have the sensitivity to enjoy. But the sensitivity is lost. Moreover the sensitivity is there at last has to be again manifested in a different way to really absorb the beauty and the joy that god has created. It’s a very delicate instrument which lies within you.

They have told you that it is called as Kundalini . Of course they have played havoc with it , you know that. They have really made a mess of what is called Kundalini? They have ruined it, completely ruined and that’s how they have ruined your inner being. It is shocking, really shocking. And in your frantic search you also believed these horrible people who are just out to ruin you. These people have no relationship with reality, they don’t know who is Christ, they don’t know who is Mohammed, they don’t know who is Nanak. They don’t know anything about the great Incarnations who came on this Earth. They don’t want to talk about it! There is no relationship, there is no historical background to what they are saying. After all if there is a tree and everything within comes in a circle. This has a history; it was a seed first, then it grew up to big tree and even a seed has its history that it was a seed and then a flower. So when these people just start talking to you off hand without any relationship to the historical background or to their – you can say – to the surrounding, they are just … In English language you can say, they are talking nothing. But why do we believe it? Because they have something in them for which they control us.

Now you have your own conceptions say about god that god should be like this, god should be like that . This concept cannot be your own, how is it your own? How, now how do you say that god should be like this, or like that? What is your ideal? But why do you decide that god should be like that? What is your basic? Ask questions please! Then it will give you different [INDIST.] What is your basic purpose? What have you read about god? Who looks as he read? Can you discriminate between a person who is real or who is unreal? Time has one very great advantage that in history you can find out that time crops down everything that is false. Everything that is false is cropped down and whatever real remains.

Like about Christ you see, where he lived how people just see. They said, you know what things they have said against Him and they crucified Him. Now they have the biggest problems how to explain His resurrection? Who has asked them to explain? Now why should they explain? What is the need to explain His resurrection? He was resurrected because He was very different from you people are. He was not a human being.

You cannot even explain how a flower becomes a fruit – which you see everyday, can you? You cannot even say why there is gravity on this Earth. From where did it come in the Mother Earth? Can you explain? You cannot explain anything whatsoever through your science, can we any ‘why’ , how can it be we cannot explain? Then how can you explain the resurrection of Christ? But you want to explain that, if you cannot explain then you stand on two legs. Either you say that you are exhausted – it is not so, how can you?

I met some very frivolous people in Argentina, they said, “Why was Christ poor, why did He take birth as a poor Man?” I said, “Who are you to decide about it?” I mean, you will take to His birth according to His own wish, because He is really free. This you cannot understand, you know, human beings cannot understand that free, free personality, because you are not. He can take His birth anywhere He wants to take, He can do whatever He likes with Himself, because He is freely free. And in all this freedom whatever He does is for the good of the whole. While when we are free we do something that will be absolutely nasty, and maybe very much destroying the whole, because our freedom is too very lunatic. We have no sense of judging a person, not at all – because we are not [inward – UNCLEAR] realized. At least that should happen to human being where they achieve a sense of freedom. This is absolute.

So they have a problem, what is resurrection of Christ – let us explain, let us understand. One way, as I told you, is to just to say that we cannot explain, so it’s all wrong; you shouldn’t believe anyone, He was just like that; should’nt believe in any Incarnation, there were no good; resurrection is falsehood, it was all a myth – so we feel very happy about it. . You are being very honest. Then you do not know the whole truth. What is the sense of your honesty and dishonesty?

Say I do not know this house, how it looks like, all right? Then I should say I do not know – is all right. But then to form a complete idea about this house, even denying it. You see denying it, means you are not honest. So this is one way of looking at it, especially intelligence you see. It makes you think like that, and you think you are being very rational. But rationality if it is of that much limited shows ego-centric, as you can call it, which cannot see things beyond, it is no rationality. Why do you in the rationality think that perhaps He was resurrected, because there was something special about Him, which we could not understand?

Rationality should see things that happened, which rationality cannot explain. Like as I said a tree having flowers, and then becoming fruits. A tree that is a mango tree can give you mangos, and a rose bush will give you roses, and the birds that are cuckoo birds will sing the way they are. What is the rationality behind it? Why do they do it? What is their place in this universe? Through rationality you can recognize one thing that rationality is silliness. It cannot pass the barriers communications of understanding.

The second style is that you don’t believe in, then its all right, He was resurrected all right. He was resurrected all right, so believe in Christ and believe in Him. So we believe in Him, we don’t believe in anything else, we just believe in Him. Now even if Christ comes and stands before you and says that I am Christ now, see for yourself – you are not going to believe. You believed in the Christ who got crucified because you were not there. Who were there never believed Him. But when He comes back and says, “Now I am here sitting before you, now you try to recognize Me and find out if I am Christ or not”. So then you’ll say that how can that be? We like to believe in Christ who died, now He is finished, now what do you do? This is another style.

So we get two extremes we can say, is one side is fanaticism. You can say akward and very detrimental for human growth and when you turn away from that, from one thing to another; you go to the other side where you start feeling, ‘oh how can you believe it’? So we do not believe. So this is the same, in-between these two where we stand. In many countries all over the world, all the young people are awakened to this fact that fanaticism is something stupid. So they are moving to the other side towards the rationality, the intellectualism. But a simple thing one should understand, does rationality give you joy? It is so dry. You go on building words after words, at the end you are tired, fagged out, jittery. . You have had a discussion with an intellectual say twice or thrice and say, ‘better you go to a pub’. You will be in the tension and really you will become jittery.

As I was just now telling, I went to Switzerland and I was surprised about them. Just all they stand, this is an argument. This one is saying something, the other one is saying something and the whole argument was on and on and on and people were so jittery . The vibrations were, all the children were shattered as if they are moving on a, what you call it as a wheel, no as if a wheel is [rotating?] and the people are moving on a wheel, so much shattered and everybody got shaking like that. What sort of vibrations will be there ? Children themselves were [shocked?] and the whole atmosphere was beautiful. The nature was so beautiful and the nature was looking absolutely tired, fagged out and dissatisfied and the people were, I don’t know what they were [INDIST.] their brains were shooting off their all very very speed, extremely speedy. So what have they achieved? Are they happy? Has that rationality done any good to them? Nobody seems to be happy in that affluent country where rationality is the way they look at things. And even when we talk of selfishness – I said, “Unless and until you discover yourself, how can you be selfish? You can be only shellfishes but you cannot be selfish!”

In Sanskrit the word is svartha, for selfishness is the word svartha. Svartha means – sva means yourself, the being, and artha means the meaning. If you know the meaning of yourself, then it is svartha – but how will you know? If there is an undercurrent working out, if there is something that is working it out you see. It would be a folly not to expose ourselves to that and to understand our own value, our own place in this Universe and our own meaning. Why are we here?

So rationality, if it is based on wisdom, then you can see very clearly that it is wise to wait and see. But wisdom is only possible if you understand the limitations of rationality. If you are too much identified with rationality then wisdom becomes dimmer and dimmer. So we have to know ourselves – that’s very important. You are not to be guided by the tricks of people who just want to get money of you or some sort of a reputation or I don’t know what they want to make out of themselves, but what you have to do is to really know ourselves. Unless and until you know yourself you are not to believe anyone. But that doesn’t mean by any chance that you close yourself. Just say to know this house is to come inside this house. In the same way to know yourself is to enter into your own being. Now how can you enter into your own being? Which is the way?

It is a typical human question – how? But I ask you a question: “Now how does a seed grow?” So you say, “We don’t know”. All right, so you do not know ‘how’. Somebody has to know it. If you do not know – say I know. Why should you be angry with Me for that? I say, I know. Supposing I don’t know, I don’t even know how to make a candle, I don’t know how to run this transister, I don’t know even it is Mine or it is [Douglas’s], Am so bad. I think I don’t know so many things, but if I know this then why should you be angry for that? Why should you feel hurt? Then this hurts people! If you know, well and good, that’s a very good thing, if you know it’s a very good thing. But if I know that – now what should I do about it? Should I not tell you how to do it? I should. But that hurts people very much, you will see that in the history of all the saints, of all the incarnations, if you [want it OR understand], it hurts them. What did Christ do, that you should have [been OR Him?] – Christ crucified?

So the question comes in, why do we feel hurt about it? Let us have it! Do you feel hurt if somebody gives you a diamond? If your property is locked up, do you feel hurt if I tell you that this is your property and you will use it? What is there to feel hurt about it? Now where does your rationality go when it comes to reality? At this time the rationality should help you. And the way people judge it is also something very, very absurd. When you know yourself, as I say, you will know others also. Now when you know yourself, how will you know you know yourself or not? You should feel yourself. You do not know what is within . By any chance it happens to you that you start ‘seeing’ what is within you – ‘seeing’ is feeling. Then you start feeling the others, their inner being and yours , then still should you be no doubting about it? So why should we doubt? What is the advantage?

Say people are getting drowned and there is a boat, there’s a boat of love that is coming trying to save you – you can feel it, you can feel the boat, you can also get out of the water. You can feel that you are out of the water for the time being, again you jump back. Now what you should believe into – is the boat. If you don’t believe into the boat, how will you have a stronger grip? This is the problem, this is the problem of the western mind – you have to feel it. I’s not the problem of the eastern mind so much, they have other problems. They have other terrible problems, but you forget about them, we discuss about our own problems here in this country and around- in all the western people.

You have achieved affluence to effort as they think. You believe in Christ. Because whatever you see to be in this way, it’s not absolute. I can prove it to you just now. If you bring a television set you can see in that, that those pictures are also here, otherwise how are you getting it? They are in the atmosphere. You are sitting down here, you can’t hear the music, but if you bring a radio I can prove it to you that this music exists here also. You have to [respect OR just connect?]. All kinds of things from all over the world, if you have really a very sensitive radio, a extremely sensitive, you can catch the music from [UNCLEAR]. Do you realize that? Even as you are your awareness is, you know you have increased it through all these various methods. So we have to understand that whatever you’ll know through this human manifestation, whatever you have is not complete, is not perfect, is not yet that level. If this could be understood through your rationality, rationality has done its job. But even that much is not possible. Then its going to be difficult.

This understanding about yourself has to grow. This, of course. I mean you do feel it. Do we really do not understand ourselves and our fellow being? We know that, we are sure of that, you are quiet sure of that and that’s why you are confused. But if there is a method by which you can clear this points and if it works and clicks in you – then you have to believe into it. That is what is called as faith and not the blind faith. Why should there be, be two words like “blind faith” and “faith”? If faith means blindness, then there should not be two words? That means that there is something like blind faith and there is something like faith. Even in Sanskrit-Language we have one called as ‘andha shraddha’, another as ‘shraddha’.

So the faith starts after the experience and we come to a point now that we all should have the experience of the self to begin with and we have to believe into it and through that faith we have to mould it. Rationality also has faith – otherwise rationality cannot exist. Perhaps we do not know how we work out our rationality. Supposing you are going by a car and you say I have no faith in the way the car moves. You get into the car. Then you know the car moves well so you [press the key into the ?? …] and you have faith in it. I mean at every step you have faith, otherwise what is faith, is nothing but your experiences which you have seen. And the rationality is the one that accepts, accepts that faith and proceeds further.

In everything that you do out of rationality you do not go further unless and until you have faith in what you are doing is correct. You have to believe into it, otherwise you cannot exercise your rationality. You follow this point? But by no chance it means “blind faith”, this is another madness as I have told you. There is a very easy method for people who are blind – just to open their eyes. But those people who are blind and believe that they can see everything, it’s an impossibility. Those who say, “We are blindly following something”, then you can say, “All right, if you are following, blindly following we will show you where you are going”. You can hold their hand and put them on the right track and then open their eyes and they will be very much willing to open their eyes. But what about people who are blind, but think that they can see everything and can analyze everything and can rationalize everything? They are a little difficult. So we have to bring our rationality to a point that so far we have not been able to achieve it; let us have it. Once you say that, it works out.In some people I have seen Sahaja Yoga works wonders, works very fast. They jump into it much more faster than others. Some of them really go very deep into it and they settle down there. In some people it works very slowly; in some people they think they have gone very deep and they come out very fast. So one has to know it is for your own being; it is for your own selfishness because that goes into our rationality. If something is for our selfishness we understand it better – but it is, hundred percent it is for your selfishness and for the selfishness of the whole of which you are a part and parcel.

It is the method of love, of god,. Because god loves you, He has done all the things. He wants to entertain you, He wants you to grow big, to mature and then to have the beauty of His own creation completely enjoyed by you. It’s all His love. His love is working out His power to love, there is a living energy that does it. How can it harm you? We talk of love, talk of universal life, we talk of universal organizations also. We have so many organizations which are universal, they talk of those things . I met so many of these people also, but there is no love. Love is the universal energy, love is the universal thing that exists . It is so pure, so purifying, it’s so joy-giving. But we have to have faith in that and not in ourselves as long as we are in imperfect condition. When we perfect ourselves then you will know that you are nothing but instruments of love. God wants to use you for His love. He wants to express His love and He wants His love to flow through you so that it goes to others. And He wants you to make so beautiful that you become absolutely sensitive to the beauty of love. This is the new dimension that He wants you to enter into and that is what is the kingdom of God.

So if you could put down your mind a little bit and tell him not to be so jittery, it will work out. You have depended on a horse which has been playing around with you. It will become your friend and it is going to look after you. It has been may be miserable sometimes, it has been neutral, and it has also may be ego-centric and egoistical in a very subtle way which you do not know and it has been playing around with you and has been keeping you away from reality because it is testing; it is your friend. The moment it knows that you want that, the absolute, it settles down. This is Sahaja Yoga, is the power that is bestowed upon every human being to be united with that divine Power to be an instrument of this divine Power, this is the ultimate of our evolution which has to happen. Do you think god is going to leave it without being completed? If He is the All Mighty then He is going to do it.

There is only one snag that it is your freedom. God has made you free because to enter into His kingdom where complete freedom is to be enjoyed, you have to be there in your own freedom, not in bondage. So your freedom is there, you chose between ego and wisdom and then you have to enter into that arena. This is your own, acting through your own.

Now if you have any problem, you ask a question! You couldn’t see anywhere as I said, could you? You could? That’s great, that’s great. What you say? Some questions should be there.

Yogi: Too many!

Shri Mataji: Too many are there, ah? I know. What’s that?

ANOTHER Yogi: I am just new to Sahaja Yoga …

Shri Mataji: Yes.

Yogi: … what should I be doing?

Shri Mataji: Perhaps, feel it. What should I tell you, you dare not to do anything. First it’s like you people are drowning [in all these things OR as we say, ..examine?] and then they are to be saved. Now who does that – is the swimmer. Then you come to the shore and you learn to swim. Completely! Then you know all that swimming, then you can help others, it is as simple as that. Now this, say, one is enlightened but I have a candle which is not, just I have to face it towards that, it’s that. You are built-in , everything is there. You are computerized already, the computer is in, only you have to be put to the mains.

SEEKER: Shri Mataji, do you believe in [INDIST.SOUNDS LIKE: what Christ has done] and what have you done?

Shri Mataji: What’s it?

Yogi: He says, do you believe that Christ was a [INDIST.SOUNDS LIKE: dancer]?

Shri Mataji: What? What?

YOGIS: That Christ was a [INDIST.SOUNDS LIKE: dancer].

Shri Mataji: Who is this one ? Come forward! Now what does that matter, whether I believe it or not ? [Who are you?] Now sit down, sit down! Come along, come along! Come along, sit down! Now whether I believe it or not, what does it matter, tell Me! Why do you want to go into headaches? They are all headaches, I tell you really.

SEEKER: I think I couldn’t make it another question. Are I?

Shri Mataji: You see the thing is I believe not only believe, but I know all of them are correct. Absolutely true! But you see, what has happened with human brains, whatever is told to them, whatever is coming, is coming from their unconsciousness. Then we make a dogma out of it and start fighting.


…. not understanding because all of you, I would say those who look at it, all of them have only one eye and that too partly opened. So somebody sees this, somebody says that. Things that can be seen clearly only when you are fully open to it, isn’t it? Now you come in this room for example and the whole thing is all darkness, I can’t see. So I jump on to this table say, “This is really a huge thing” , then I say, “This picture is the thing”, then I say, “This light is the rope”. It is like that. So whatever is discovered in the Virata quite clear to Me. It’s not clear .

It is so simple. I’ll tell you about, recently I asked her, “Why do they go for theosophical works for Christianity?” I just couldn’t understand, you see. I said, “Did Christ say so anywhere in the bible?”, because I have not read it. I haven’t read [He was a baptizer, so I really tell you this- UNCLEAR] [I haven’t read it either?]. So I know what it is. So I said, “Did He say or anywhere or in the Bible it is written that there should be philanthropic work done by Christians?” They said, “No, but it happened once, you see, when Mary Magdalena wanted to anoint Him with some oil. And Peter said, ‘Why should you do it? Why shouldn’t you try to use this oil, sell it and make money and give it to the poor?’” It is typical, you know? He was no Prophet.

So Christ said that poor are with you all the time, headaches you see, but I am with you for a short time. He tried to emphasize the importance of Divinity, of divine Light that is with you – very important thing for Christians. But if this is the example for it, I mean this is stupidity. So if you go into the arguments and to the finding out of all the different Vedanta, ideals and things like that, it will be another sort of a problem. But the best way to see the unity of it is to go to the point where you are united. Like now say, if you say, “Do you believe in this flower?” Then another will say, “Do you believe in that flower?” “No, I believe in all of them”. “How?” “Because if I am in the sap I believe into all of them”. So let us go to that point which is universally supplying knowledge to all of these branches, all right? If you reach there then you’ll be amazed to see how this diversity has such a unity [after all?]. You have to go to that unifying factor to see this so called diverse things, having the same unifying power in it. All right?

Yogi: Yes.

SHRI MATAJI (to a Yogi): You have read Vedanta?

Yogi: No, no, but ….

Shri Mataji: The truth!

Yogi: … in India one can’t …

Shri Mataji: … get out of it …

Yogi: … get help very much [??]

Shri Mataji: … oh, oh, horrible people in that country. Oh, you don’t know – they are mad, real mad [unclear] I tell you. Don’t go near them!

ANOTHER Yogi: … rakshasas, asuras …

Shri Mataji: … asuras, asuras …

Yogi: … asuras …

Shri Mataji: … asuras. They are rakshasas, real rakshasas some of them are. Imagine they challenged Adi Shankara Charya I must say. When he wrote His vivekachudamani, they got after His life. So He gave up everything – He said, “All right, I will just sing the praise of the Mother – finished! I am not going to talk”. He has been a very clever man though …

[Shri Mataji aside: (INDIST.) How are you? Good? All right? You have to do it! They danced before the inward eye. All right?]

You see, it is the bliss of God you see. What a beautiful picture! [This is a place to take birth – unclear] for the realized soul, no doubt. You have so many of them here. So this is the problem and you can’t just get out of it. You see, if you go to India there is a lot of muck around. But you don’t go from the backside, that’s the problem. You go from the front side and to enter into India is through the villages, not through these cities. Even Benaras – horrid, never go near it! All horrid people live there …

Yogi: … Kunda [??] …

Shri Mataji: … What? Kundas, Kundas! And the rakshasas and a horrible, terrible people! They are all to be thrown away. They are being already punished by the river Ganges, and the Yamuna has punished them. Horrible people they are- cheats; they are even worse and …

Yogi: They all want paisa. They all want paisa. They all talk about paisa.

Shri Mataji: … Paisa, paisa, paisa! Now thank God there is somebody, you please record him! When I say that, people get very angry with Me. When I tell them that all these Pandas must be thrown into the Ganges, but why spoil the Ganges also? You can find some better place to drown them. But why do you, how are you impressed by them? Indians are not impressed by them. I am surprised how are you impressed by these horrible hypocrites?

Yogi: Shri Mataji, can I come in there? I am not actually an Indian born Indian, I am an African Indian, I was born in Africa, but I know a lot about Indian and when you say, ‘we are not impressed by’ like I mean Shankara Charya and …

Shri Mataji: Shankara Charya they are, but not by these horrible gundas who live in the temples and things and sell hashish …

Yogi: … true but if You, when I was in Uganda you see any persons who’s been there, You know, they were as You described, even so these people, You know like you said paise , where we go money is there. and a lot of us, you know, the younger ones who have seen all this , not heard about it, are not so impressed by it. So once I have heard about You, I was really impressed. I also heard about other swamis and all that like, what’s his name, I can’t remember his name …

Shri Mataji: One better than the other. Don’t take their names. They are all horrible. One better than the other, I went to East-Africa for your information, and I saw horrible things happening there, too …

SEEKER: All right! I know this.

Shri Mataji: … you see all kinds of these horrible people are being exported from you. You see, because they don’t need any licence for its exporting or importing. And they very nicely go and settle down in East-Africa there might be hundreds, hundreds of these thugs, sitting down there, doing Puja, this, that and collecting all kinds of people around and exploiting them. And East-Africans are very traditional people, you see, they went there long time back, they are still keeping up their traditions and [divine?] and then they took Me to a temple there and in the temple when I was there they all were doing ‘hooh, hooh, hooh, hooh’ – all were possessed! In My presence they all got possessed and I asked, “What sort of a Temple is this one?” and it was a Kali’s Temple, just imagine! I said, “He is wretched” , not because from where have they come. And I asked them, “Who is the one, who is your guru?” The guru had run away, you see, that he was not there. I bashed them nicely and I told these ladies that throw him away, this is what it is and you are all wrong.

There is so much of black magic, this, that going on in that East-Africa. It’s, you know, every third person was possessed. Horrible things were happening and maybe in Uganda also and you have such a horrible, this rakshasa there living. Now thank god is finished and all these people , were so much impressed by these, from this pandits and pandas coming from there. I know, I know it is, you are right there, absolutely right. But you go and see what I told you, and when I was in East-Africa I told all of them, even these Jain-is and all of them and I shouted at them and I said, “You will go all of you to hell”. And they were so much frightened, they said, “What are You saying Mother?” I said, all these will fall down in no time, all these temples and all these. But here are also the same things I find, My child, it’s nowhere an exception, except it is very clever here and it is very crude there, but also here the same.

Yogi: But Mother, I have the same feeling when I was in Brazil they worshipped together Mary and black magic. Then I wondered and they wanted to talk about the things to me and they stopped because I talked about Your name and they stopped to speak about it.

Shri Mataji: Very true! You see, this is what it is, without self-Realization you cannot understand god. Without self-Realization you can even worship a demon or a man thinking that is God. That’s why you must have self-Realization, that is the only way you are going to know that. One small thing will people do not understand, how can you purchase god? How can you pay for god?

In East-Africa I know, it was so, I am so, people were mad and you don’t know why. My host himself his wife were so sick. She was so sick, she was mentally so upset and she was getting into fits and things like that, but we have to do something about it and I told that this is all wrong, throw away all these people – same in Uganda. This is all money-making propositions but you awaken to it. You see, there is a fashion now in East-Africa. ‘Who is your guru?’ Everybody must have [attain?] here; they must have a guru. Why must you have a guru? I can’t understand, but you do not know whether he is a guru or else he is a rakshasa.

Yogi: So You see, when I meant in that sort of things later means that when I talk about You to them, You know, it is the same thing, they said that if She is to you so much, he is to me just as much, you see?

Shri Mataji: ‘But what have you gained’? is the point, you should ask them. All right, you should say that. ‘What has he given you?’ You have given him money, you have given him fruits, you have given him clothes, you have done everything – what has he given to you? He is suffering from all kinds of diseases – what has he given? You see, if he is at a higher position you should get something from that – isn’t it? What has he given you ? But when you come to Sahaja Yoga, what happens to you? You are physically, mentally, emotionally you are put right. Spiritually you start feeling the vibrations, you can cure people, you know there are many Sahaja Yogis who have cured people. You can cure cancer! That is one-sided, only the person who can give is the Guru, not the one who can take. That’s why he is called as Guru. If they say so, you should ask, ‘what have you achieved?’ Only you have cleared out with your purses, given away all that you possessed, now you have become a beggar, that’s what you have achieved. They are possessed by these people, that’s why they can’t see. They can’t see, you know they posses you, that’s why you cannot see.

In India we had a cult called, now even today it is, after Vandana-Charya they were called as Vaishnavas and all that. I don’t know what to call them, because Vandana Charya himself was a realized soul, and he had eight disciples who did not get Realization, very unlucky. And when they started following this ‘ashtachap-vaishnava-dharma’. In this you know, what they had? You will be shocked, if I tell you. The head priest was supposed to enjoy the bride on the first night. Any bride! And he was invited to anybody, anywhere in India. A person had to spend lacks of Rupees and this is what the blessing from the guru they were given. Now what to say to such silly, stupid, useless – what should I call them? Now I don’t know many bad words. .

What do you say to such stupid people? You see, that’s why we need intelligent people for Sahaja Yoga – to understand. But not intellectuals, there is a difference between it – you should be intelligent. Intellectuals are the people who just enjoy the mental fields , you see like sucker. They are nowhere, they are just moving in the same – UNCLEAR]. There is no where somersault, you see, some somersaults you should have. But these , this is very true, this kind of a fanaticism is there. But you young people can fight it out. That’s why you are born at this time and you are young. You have to tell them that this is wrong – [INDIST.SOUNDS LIKE: not many] – also I must say in East-Africa within eight days time there was such a change – such a change, tremendous change came, and they were [INDIST. elderly?] people also, even I went to the, actually the Jain-is had arranged My program, then I gave them right and left there all about Jainism and about Mahavira I told them, “What are you doing? This is not Jainism”. Not a word! They started thinking about it.

So it is true, they are like that, it’s a sad thing, but there is a trick in Sahaja Yoga by which you can turn them round. I will tell you later of it. There are lots of tricks by which you can make these people come around. Oh! I worked out lots of permutations and combinations. Only thing you must decide to learn all these tricks. For fanatics also we can work it out, only thing they should know that they have not achieved anything, then it works out. They know when they get sick also. There is one society in India which they invited Me to address – their name is “Servants of God”. I said, “All right”. As soon as I reached there they came out with their problems mostly physical. They said, “This is wrong with us, Mother. You must cure this”. I said, “Now what kind of servants of god are these ?” All of them are sick people, now what have I to do with them? But they realized it was a sickness that if you were really servants of god and you are really serving god, then you should be [perfect OR first fit]. That means something is wrong.

So all those who had been to India, before getting Realization, raise your hands – I wanted to see. Before getting Realization, went to India. . [UNCLEAR]. You, You have been to India before getting realization, you went down?

Yogi: I haven’t got realization.

Shri Mataji: That’s it, so now you are one of them. Now who else? You have been there too? You better write down all the nonsense of Indians, all right? Next week we have to [publish it OR publicize]. May God bless you! May God bless you!

You write it down, all your experiences, because after realization we forgive them, and you will not even remember, you better write it down. You! They way they have used you and troubled you, very important! You see? You have to inform the government of India about it, they are busy …

Yogi: I am going to tell all about the Pondicherry-Ashram, I won’t forgive them in the Pondicherry-Ashram. I got beaten up by the gym-master there. I am not going to forgive them for that …

Shri Mataji: All right! I am with you, for that! Please write it down!

[Yogis laugh]

Yogi: All that thing is a tack -stall, the whole thing is run by Mahishasura.

Shri Mataji: Ha, Ha! That’s good! Now will you please write it down for Me, I’ll give it in writing and get more things

Yogi: I was certainly will. I tell You the whole story, he was a gym-master, he was making love to his girl-friend in the mothers shrine and he …

Shri Mataji: She is not a mother!

Yogi: What?

Shri Mataji: She is not a mother.

Yogi: No, she is awful, rakshasa …

Yogi: …absolute … a terrible asura.

Shri Mataji: That’s it! Thank God there is somebody else, talking like that. Horrible people, one better than the other …

Yogi: … and Rajnish, he is another.

Shri Mataji: Good! Good! You see, this Rajnish has bade a woman to write about against Me.

ANOTHER Yogi: You can see. What has he, what – if he does that, …

Shri Mataji: He has done it.

Yogi: I would give, I would give the whole dope against him …

Shri Mataji: And she came poor thing, you know she was, she, she couldn’t find anything against Me and whatever she wrote was all wrong. You see that, whatever she wrote was I never do this thing, like she said I had eaten ‘paan’ I never eat ‘paan’ and all sorts of things, when I was wearing a jade, I never had a jade and all kinds of things she has written about Me, so when I have seen the maya played on her. I am very happy that somebody is talking about it.

Yogi: Shri Mataji, I think you and we all can to get together and get Rajnish because he is Mahishasura …

Shri Mataji: He is more he is a Ravana, I think, he is a Ravana, he is a Ravana, you see – Mahishasura is the other one. You see, the one who is after Mahishasura has now come to London, he is coming tomorrow to see Me. He is, this Mahishasura as you know, is this asatya baba, asatya-baba. You don’t know him?

Yogi: I don’t know. I don’t know. Asatya-baba?

Shri Mataji: They are called as satya-baba, but he is asatya.

Yogi: Sai baba?

Shri Mataji: Sai baba, not the old one, the new one. You see, I was, our Ex-Prime-minster, Mr. Gurjari Lal Bhandari, you see, he has spoke very well about Sahaja Yoga, this thing and that thing, but next day somebody wrote to him that you praised Her such a lot and you did all this, but do you know one thing about Her, She criticizes all the people, even like Satya-Sai-Baba and even like your that another woman, what’s her name is?- that philanthrophic horrible woman

YOGIS: manga mai

Shri Mataji: Anandamayi and all these people, you see. So he was telling, “But Mother [what’s to or must you] criticize?” But I said, “Did I ever criticize to you?” He said, “Not to me, but people say your disciples did shout and say, ‘oh she is rakshasi and he is a rakshasa!’”. I said, “They must be the one who have been beaten up by them, so they must have said it with that loudness”. But he said, “What do You say?” I said, “They are correct”. “Are they?” “Yes, I think they are correct, what they are saying is correct, you don’t understand”. So I said, “Now wait, wait a minute! There’s one gentleman who has come just now to meet Me and you must talk to him”. So this one was Mr. Bharani . [You remember at him? Or You must [unclear] .

He’s another interesting person, you see – Mr. Bharani. He was head long with this fellow, you see. He was the co-pilot of the whole school in Delhi. Where if you had got with this horrible rakshasa was there , all the traffic jams, nobody could go anywhere, never such a population gathered for these great rakshasa. And then this fellow, Mr. Bhalani was the main person behind the whole show, he spend Lacks and Lacks of Rupees on him and he did all that. And then, what happened? That this fellow told his wife that see you should become a sanyasin, you must give up your husband, you must come and stay with me and it is not good to be with your husband. He vanished with this all the money and the property she had in self r -all ornaments and everything, and she went down to his ashram. Now this Bharani has now realized that he has been befooled, so he came to see Me first day, you see, with terrible anger in him and he said that Mother, if you don’t mind, I want to tell you something. I said, “You see I will mind if you say something which is not decent, because be careful about Me, you must not say indecent things to Me”. He said, “No not indecent to you Mother, but I want to tell you something about someone whom people regard as a guru”. I said, “All right you tell Me, I know about whom you are going to tell”. So I told him, it is asatya-baba. He said, “How did you know?” I said, “I can see what you are catching from your chakras that he has affected you”. So then he told Me he is writing a book now about asatya-baba and he is going to do this and he is going to do that. So I told him that you come and see Me on such and such point. That time this Ex-Prime-Minister of India was talking to Me. I said, “Now talk with Mr. Bharani”. So I solved the problem both of you . And Mr. Bharani was on the subject [unclear] and he told Me how [INDIST.].

[SHRI MATAJI aside: Nothing of that kind.]

But they have done their job, they have, they have [lynched?] all your money, and they are settled very nicely now. They are gathering new people, now you have to warn the new. All of you have to talk about it and write about it, take the responsibility. I have been saying this, I said this in nineteen-seventy.

Yogi: If we write about it, the rakshasas who come back at us,You know, isn’t it?.

Shri Mataji: No, but you have to be careful. You have to be careful.

Yogi: They are very strong asuras. [Yes, I need [INDIST.]. To beckon us – UNCLEAR] the asuras, too many of them are around.

Shri Mataji: All sorts of Lamas …

Yogi : Llama

Shri Mataji: horrible!

Yogi: OOh!

Shri Mataji: [You have some lamas now – UNCLEAR].

Yogi: You should have seen the one who came last week.

Shri Mataji: But why do you garland them? Why don’t you beat them with shoes?

Yogi: Didn’t they got Maha-Siddhis, you know, they are attempt to nothing, that f…ing [all laugh] man. [ child stuff – UNCLEAR] that, that leads to beckons. I even do what to master them because they are the people who helped hitler, they are helping the Russians now …

Shri Mataji: Correct!

Yogi: now … they are horrible …

Shri Mataji: Have you read the book written on Me – you haven’t got the book here, yet?


YOGIS: Yes. Yes. Yes.

Shri Mataji: You better ask him to read the book. He will know quite a lot we have tried to do.

Yogi: The Advent.

Shri Mataji: Advent.

Yogi: It is a beautiful picture on the –

Shri Mataji: The picture is beautiful and you see inside also. We have exposed all of them one by one, but in that, you see, we have to be careful..


Hallo Biggie!

BIGGIE: Hallo!

Shri Mataji: We have to be careful about them because, you know, there is a law which says we should not condemn them, they can condemn us, but we cannot. But still you can say about your own experiences, this has happened. You should gather people around, but now you are already looted.

ANOTHER Yogi: Looted?

Shri Mataji: Yes you are already being looted.

Yogi: By?

Shri Mataji: By these!

Yogi: By these asuras.

Shri Mataji: Of course.

Yogi: By these Tibetiens?

Shri Mataji: Of course. Tibetiens are the worst of all.

Yogi: I think so. I think so. But I haven’t got, this is England.

Shri Mataji: But there is one Englishman also here. You’ve got very nicely settled down in England.

Yogi: Which one?

Shri Mataji: What’s his name?

Yogi: [INDIST.SOUNDS LIKE: Arun Apansanyaylane] that …

Shri Mataji: No, no. What’s his name?


Shri Mataji: Yaak, Mr. Yaak.

Yogi: Yaak. [laughs]

Shri Mataji: You don’t know him?


SHHRI MATAJI: Oh! He is sending his emissaries to Me. You don’t know him?

Yogi: No.

Shri Mataji: He is an Englishman, he has taken a tip.

ANOTHER Yogi: Who’s name, which one? There is another English fellow who is trying to [sabotage us?] all the day.

Shri Mataji: Who?

Yogi: Someone called Benjamin Cram.

Shri Mataji: Where is he?

Yogi: He does a strange thing. Whereby they hold a wire and they say they get in touch with Jesus.

Shri Mataji: With the wire?

Yogi: Yes.

Shri Mataji: Was Christ made a wire or – ?

Yogi: We, we have raised somebody’s Kundalini and he started saying, “Oh this is very dangerous”, you know. [He talked and so he is off or …goes off].

Shri Mataji: What’s name you said ?

Yogi: Benjamin Crame.

Shri Mataji: Cream?

Yogi: Crame.

Shri Mataji: Crame?

Yogi: C-r-a-m-e. That’s right.

Shri Mataji: Who is he?

Yogi: Hm, yah.

ANOTHER Yogi: What can you tell on him?

Yogi: Oh yes, I have seen that before. I know that.

THIRD Yogi: He was not very lucky because we are, he was just in front of this and your teacher was just a test. This school [INDIST.SOUNDS LIKE: master] I think he was not very lucky.

Shri Mataji: And he started shaking and what happened?

Yogi: Now he, they – a person came and we raised their Kundalini and he started saying, “Oh this is very dangerous, some say cause they are not allowed to do it, and it’s all business”.

ANOTHER Yogi: But he ran away, he disappeared for the rest of the afternoon –

FIRST Yogi: But everybody asked, “What were you doing?”, you see, the people, the people who were with him, so what about we were doing? And we started saying something to him -.

Shri Mataji: Ahh! I think the time has come, I really, now you are doing this. Do that as I tell you, do that as I tell you.

Yogi: But –

Shri Mataji: Do this, not condemning them [with that emphasis], , but what happens after Realization, you become mild.

ANOTHER Yogi: You lose interest in that Maya.

Shri Mataji: No, but you have to think of others, you see, there are so many who are going to be with us. Who will, are going to be really [disturbed ?.]. Be careful, you have to do that. For others you have to do it.

Shri Mataji: It will be better if you pull back the curtains, because this is the light that should be on My face [??]

Oh God! how many people you have been to, My child? What’s your name?


Shri Mataji: You, I am asking you.


Yogi: I saw her.

ANOTHER Yogi: Ah, now, I am not really, I am not really, I am not doing the [INDIST.SOUNDS LIKE: vote-consequent] politics. I don’t know them all. I have been to millions and I …

Shri Mataji: Really?

Yogi: I have been to, I have been all across India and found the dana and lost and harming again, and lost it again and I looked for the heavenly tika Master Kung-fu-ze, known as Lao-tse or [Konfuzius or Confucious?] and I found the man of the Dana and I found Gopal Swami and then I lost him again. You see even this rakshasas – Digambaras-Sadhu came up after Gopal Swami had died I didn’t get to his death-beds and he died and I wasn’t there and didn’t pass on the dharma and satana dharma and so I, I … They were all wild and …

Shri Mataji: This Digambara-Swaraj will beaten up

Yogi: He took me up on a hill for three nights, said mantras over me and bought – now all this shanti and you know this Anahata-Chakra was before it, after Gopal-Swamis eldest son when, like that, you see, he lights up. Then after that the digambaras and said all his mantras, it is like a spike to the Anahata-Chakra, you know – bang! , but it’s like black and in the middle of the, and the petal of Manipura, you know – it’s very tough. That’s what he has done. That’s the digambaras That’s the Jain-as!

Shri Mataji: Horrible!

Yogi: Horrible, an asura! That’s a real asura.

Shri Mataji: They talk of vegetarianism. This is what they do, the digambaras.[unclear]

ANOTHER Yogi: Tum shaitan! shaitan! Tum jao..tum shaitan. [Translation from hindi: You are evil! Evil! You go, you evil.]

Shri Mataji: Who these digambaras said? Avoid it!

At the funniest time, point at it, digambaras [INDIST.] I confronted them when I was very young you know, just married . They had invited My husband to inaugurate something, I don’t know, some sort of a Temple or something. I did laugh all the time and these, there were about forty of these digambaras. Now ‘dig’ means directions, you see, and direction and ‘ambar’ means the cloth, so they have no clothes. Directions are their clothes, imagine! All these horrible people sitting on a stage and We both were sitting in front of them. And they were scratching themselves and horrible people and ghastly, forty of them, you see? My Husband looked at Me and said, “What is this style?” I said, I don’t know, “This is the first time I am facing these horrible dirty people. I don’t know what to call them.” And everybody was very much surrendered to them, you see. After ten minutes we just couldn’t manage. I came out and I was vomiting, vomiting and vomiting. They are horrible people, you see!

Yogi: I didn’t know of that. Oh, oh – pretty well.

Shri Mataji: So now you are in politics, that’s another nonsense.

Yogi: We are –

ANOTHER Yogi: The whole tour it was after midnight and he was a little party governor. .

Shri Mataji: [Oh that’s good. I am with them, am with them

Yogi: That’s good. And imagine …

Shri Mataji: [] But you have to enter politics after some time, perhaps, maybe. Maybe we may have to be, if you are really liberated, in the sense that if you achieve that and there is no harm in becoming that. But just now let us concentrate on assuming our own powers and then only you have to fight it out, because – you know – even our laws are not such.

Now we have in India many Justices, Chief-Justices who are Sahaja Yogis. But there are no laws so far prohibiting any black magic in India, because they do not believe in the existence of black magic in India. Can you imagine that? This is thanks to our [Lord Mc Coley?] who went to India and tried to help us with our laws, you see. So like people in England they did not believe in any laws like that. So they said, “We know that there is black magic and these people are working out black magic and we cannot do anything about it”. And sometimes these laws are very handy for these horrible black magicians. Like Rajnish they cannot catch, they cannot catch all these people and even the CBI Chief who had come and who is a Sahaja Yogi, he says, “I find it very difficult to catch them”. So you can imagine how terrible it is.

First of all let us assume ourselves, let us become ourselves, let us feel ourselves, let us know our own powers and then we can fight them out much better than we can do it this way, because you have to pass certain laws now. You have to bring the attention of the people to this dimension which is not known to them and they think this is unknown and that’s why it is something divine. This is the confusion which we have to clear out. We have to have more Sahaja Yogis.

So how many of you are not yet realized? [Shri Mataji counts:] One, two, three, four … Only four! I tell you There everybody is realized at the back?

Yogi: No!

Shri Mataji: No? Who else is not? Do come up! Come here! In front! Now it’s better. Just come in front!

Yogi: This is Bill.

Shri Mataji: How do you do? Come along, come, come! Who else is there – not realized? You are not? All right! What’s your name?

SEEKER: Sako, s-a-k-o from Paris.

Shri Mataji: Sako, from?

SEEKER: From Paris.

Shri Mataji: From Paris! Oh I see.

Yogi: He came with Oliver [??], as far as I know.

Shri Mataji: He came to the ashram, is it? You see, you are from, otherwise from Mauritius?

SEEKER: I come from Africa, West-Africa.

Shri Mataji: West, what part? What?

SEEKER: Mali. Near Algeria.

Shri Mataji: Oh I see. We have an Algerian here.

Yogi: Yeah!

Shri Mataji: Yes, we have an Algerian. Good. We have from Mauritius also. We have met people from Mauritius, don’t you think so?

YOGIS: [laugh]

SHRI MATAJI seeks aside: It is better you get My sweater also and all of that. It is for [INDIST.] or should I sit that side will be better, there is [INDIST.] it melts My Vibrations better than can – you bring?


Shri Mataji: But what are these vibrations, what you have got? It is something so great that we cannot achieve it. So there must be something special in Sahaja Yoga, not like that. Now what is so special about that, what happens to you after receiving realization, what you can work it out? How it works, how it works within you? You first work on these things. Do not divert your attention to other things. First of all you settle down with it seriously and find out what are these vibrations – how are they helping me, how are they helping others, what changes are coming within you? We should go that way. But in case you find it absolute transformation within you, you find its absolute joy and happiness within you, then you don’t have to think about these things. But it is so funny that this human mind doesn’t stop easily. You see, it’ll come back. It is to doubt something, so what? You got vibrations, so what? All sorts of things will be there.

One of the reasons why in the West you do not often understand about these vibrations because it is not talked about it. People do not, but Indians know. So there is no argument on this part, once they get the vibrations they know it is something. But here you do not know, you see, so we do not know what they are. Now what are these vibrations and how they come to us – this is to be understood in full, full way, not in a half-hearted way. So like a seeker you might humble down yourself and now see for yourself how these vibrations were coming? How you can raise the Kundalini? How can you give realization to others? How you can work it out?

So for this you have to come to different programs we have. Settle down yourself, settle down these vibrations within you. How to maneuver them? How to decode them? What things work with vibrations? What finger means what? Then you have to verify and find out if it is true or not, work on other people and that’s how it is going to settle down. Because in this country I have seen that you give realization to many. Now I’ve become very conscious. So what happens, they go home, then it starts working in their mind, the whole thing, because still the mind is not steady and the ego, you see, might come up and give you some ideas or else you can say come might come over somehow or the other . And what happens that you now lose vibrations. Once you lose the vibrations then you cannot understand. The first thing is to steady these vibrations, that is the most important. But people just do not steady it and then they get very upset.

I would advice you that you should go through the [Shri Mataji speaks aside – UNCLEAR] . But now you can feel the vibrations of others also. From everywhere you won’t get vibrations, but say, now just now if you see his vibrations, I mean I would not like it, because if you see his vibrations you will know that he has got lots of problems within himself and these problems can show on the vibrations and you can see on your Chakras and all that. And the fellow who has come here, he too has the problem. Now he has problems because of his – what’s the name?

Yogi: Now, TM

Shri Mataji: Ah, we call it TM – but his Sushumna has opened out, but still his Vishuddhi is catching, that’s why his ear is not all right. If I work on his Vishuddhi then he will start feeling the vibrations, but otherwise he is Realized. You can see, on his head, you can see on your head also. Now see on your head, who has got realization, you feel the cool coming out of it.


Just feel it! Come along, feel it! Do you feel something cool coming out? Or some hot breeze?


Shri Mataji: Are you all right?


Yogi: Got Nabhi!

Shri Mataji: Nabhi?

Yogi: Nabhi.

Shri Mataji: … and?

Yogi: And Swadishthan.

Shri Mataji: She has Nabhi – as you said.

Yogi: Yes Nabhi, very strong.

Shri Mataji: It’s the heart must be put all right, because what happens, the Kundalini sucked it from the heart. I mean from the heart the [ force-unclear] is given. With the connection, if it is established with the heart, then there is no problem. Must be first Heart, then Nabhi. See when it reaches that stage of Heart, you should attend to Heart first and then to the Nabhi. A sort of it is quite there …

Yogi: I feel heart in the center …

Shri Mataji: After all that is the alarming thing. Now Simon are you better?

ANOTHER Yogi: Yes, first …

Shri Mataji: Ah?

Yogi: I can’t feel much difference.

Shri Mataji: It all has been inside your head.

Yogi: The head is full.

Shri Mataji: Just say, are you thinking?

Yogi: No.

Shri Mataji: No, there is no thought?

Yogi: Oh no, there is a thought, I was thinking about Lancaster.

Shri Mataji: Ah?

Yogi: I was thinking about families in Saint John’s Wood

Shri Mataji: About what?

ANOTHER Yogi: About some people he knows in Saint John’s Wood.

Shri Mataji: All right, now you just tell yourself, I am not going to think. Now, turn down . You turn down t. All right, you try the one thing.

[to another person:]

Come along! Here

You just stay, turn around and see My face. Without thinking you will see My Face, all right?

Yogi: All right.


You have to try all that, now you put your hands like that, all of you. Now you tell Me, if there is any burning or anything in any finger? You have been right. Both the Nabhi – correct. Now just sit, you will know, gradually, you see this is the sensitivity one has to develop, all right? Gradually, because they are so enamored . So much of flow is there, that you are not feeling. Are you feeling? Correct! From there you felt, correct. Now your heart is very week. Because it is an extol on the heart you have to be carefull. That works on the [INDIST.]. That can be very temporary but must be within first.

Yogi: You have said a very deep heart-problem?

Shri Mataji: No, no, no – you see, it starts when the Kundalini moves to a certain height in any chakra, it will slow down. That’s all about it. That’s somewhere existed. You know, are you better?

Yogi: No.

Shri Mataji: You feel now?

ANOTHER Yogi: I can’t feel any difference, I just …

Shri Mataji: It’s all right, but are you feeling better in the head?

ANOTHER Yogi: Oh yeah! I mean …

Shri Mataji: That’s the main, yeah …

Yogi: … I am cured.

Shri Mataji: … that’s all. Bringing down your speed, all right?

You have done too much of reading. What’s your age?

Yogi: Twenty-seven.

Shri Mataji: And you have read so much?

Yogi: Yes, I want, I said today of, how can I read the liberal party manifesto, now it –


Shri Mataji: [laughs]

Yogi: I really did, I am sick.

Shri Mataji: Oh they have this manifestos. Not just one, but three of them, I see, you have to go to understand, Keep out of it for the time being , all right? Fine! Now you feel better? It’s good? Are you feeling better? Now can you feel anything, anyone of you?

ANOTHER Yogi: I do feel some [INDIST.] sensation in my thumb

Shri Mataji: Thumb? In your thumb? All right, now let’s keep it that. Now what do you feel? Nothing? All right, just now he is so much opened up. Now what about you? Bad thing?

Yogi: Now I do feel this finger very strong.

Shri Mataji: This finger, now … there … all right. So now you have the thumb and you have, you don’t feel anything no, then he feels on this, this finger – all right. So who else is there? What about you?