Give up Misidentifications

London (England)

1979-04-22 1 Talk To Yogis 1, 48'
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1979-04-22 1 Talk To Yogis 2, 31'
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“Give up Misidentifications”. Dollis Hill ashram, London (UK). 22 April 1979.

…and because of the cleansing of the feet of Christ they said, “Why should we waste such a lot of oil? You can sell it and give it to the poor.” And Christ said – now see what He said – that Christ Himself has said these words and if they are depicted the same way. You just see the meaning and what you should take out. He says that, “These poor are forever, but I am for a short time.” You see? How clearly He has said that there’s no philanthropic work involved. But people take the other meaning! I don’t know from where you get the other meaning? That you must look after the poor. That’s not your job at all! Alright, Atul? That’s not your job to look after the poor. What we have to work out [is] in the middle. By which we can pull the right and left to both the banks. You have to be in the middle course! When we are in the middle course, we first of all settle down ourselves nicely, and then the left and right can be engulfed. The poor and the rich.

The over-rich are horrid people! They smoke, they drink, they are wretched people. Gambling, this, that, all sorts of things they do. They waste their lives. They don’t know how to face themselves. They are in the worst possible condition. And the poor are another style, labour class and all that.

So you have to bring them to the centre. But how? You yourself have the depth within yourself. You can pull all of them together into this. First solution has to come in the central path. Alright?

So this is it, that, when you start doing your philanthropic work you cannot do it with Sahaja Yoga, you cannot. Of course, I mean poor is alright, in the Indian villages I can work it out, but very poor will not take to Sahaja Yoga. They’ll take to drinking, smoking, or if some time is left, then burgling or cheating. They will take to these things because, for them, eating is the main thing. Just like animals they are. And for the very rich, they are another type of animals – they are vultures. They cannot live without being parasites on the society. If you tell them anything they will not understand you.

So, the upper classes is useless [and] the lower class is useless for us. Ours is the middle class, which has to settle down with the values of Sahaja Yoga. And then once they see you, the river flowing, they can be enriched and they will come to us. You are like a river and we have to enrich both the banks, this side or that side. That is important. One side you have to cleanse, on the upper class and the lower class you have to enrich them. But if you do not have that within yourselves how are you going to do it?

Sahaja Yoga is going to work for the middle class. This is the point. Not for the poor and the greedy. And that’s a very wrong thing to do [that] attention is put to the poor. That’s not our job. We have not created poor have we? We have not. Who has created them? The upper class. We [can] club them together, the upper and lower class. So they’ll say, “We’ll have Labour government.” Both are just the same! That’s it you see. They think by denying God, we are challenging God. [They think] if they deny God then God will fall at their feet, that’s why they deny. Otherwise what is the need? What matters? Is he standing for any election? Is He contesting any election that you are saying, “We do not believe in God!”? What does it matter? So that is how we understand that these are fools.

Maria: Is there any way, Mother that..

Shri Mataji: That’s what I said that, the way is that the middle class should be developed.

Maria: …for these people who are on the extremes like that to say, “I do not believe and I am angry.”

Shri Mataji: Then let it be. You don’t make them believe.

Maria: Yes, but is there any way of helping them to come to an understanding in the beginning?

Shri Mataji: If you think that you can make these people believe, you cannot. It’s wrong. They will not. They will not, because the more you will try to do it, the more they’ll [continue], because their ego is hurt. They are the people whose ego is hurt because they find some people rich. The person on this bank and this bank: he sees this, he sees this. We are somewhere down below here, alright? And they are seeing each other. So their ego is hurt very much. And here there are people who are egoistical. So both do not believe in God. What does it matter if they believe it or not? There is God. They just want to say it out. “Here it is, a big words!” I have seen everybody [saying], “I believe..” Now, who are you? Everyone says, “I believe into…” I mean, believing, from where it has come? From where did you get this belief? What is your experience? So that’s how they do it.

So they have to say, if a politician comes up and gives a lecture. “I believe that this is this.” So everybody hears that, so they go on home [and] they say, “I believe in this!” It’s like ringing one bell, putting into another bell and the resonance starts and everyone says, “I believe.” (laughter)

I find, in this country, even an ordinary beggar talks like that! There’s no humility of any kind. That’s why they talk like that – they lack of humility. They are so aggressive. You just see how aggressive they are. They have aggressed all the cultures of the world. Now today’s article, I brought it for you to see specially. Now, in Tehran, whatever they have done, Tehranis have done, they have put a chaddar on a lady and say, “You wear a chaddar.” So an English lady writes about it. She says, “They have made our body…” You see, now, your attitude towards life – you can say a British attitude or you can say the Western attitude – is that your body is very beautiful so you must show it. Why? Why cheat yourself? It is not because your body is beautiful that you are showing off but [because] you want to catch it. It’s simple. It is as simple as that. Face it! But you want all the world, all over the world [that] the women should be like you. It’s such a subtle aggression. You don’t know. They have killed all the cultures of the world with this kind of an understanding that, “We are the best! Most educated and sophisticated people.”

But others also must exist. They have their own cultures, understand them and think. If you do not say, “Please, give me this,” then he’s [regarded as] uncultured. It is such a subtle aggression on everybody’s culture. That’s how you have removed all the Indians from South America and North America. Everywhere, wherever these people have gone they have finished the cultures. It’s a very, very special type of aggression these people have, and aggression has a reaction always. Either the other culture’s people, those people who have other cultures, would strive to be this culture, because this is supposed to be the greatest of all. To say like that, that, “We should not be afraid of showing, we should not be ashamed of our body.” What is something like privacy within us? Is there nothing like privacy? We should respect our bodies!

Now if this is the attitude taken, that everybody, “Oh, this woman is inhibited because she does not show off her body.” The showing off of the body is nothing but is a subtle prostitution! You see it’s on, and on, and on. It’s very subtle. Now another suggestion comes in from there that, for twenty-five years they cannot believe that people can remain celibate because in this country people cannot. But there are so many countries where they really remain celibate till they are married; so many of them. But according to them it is not possible, so those who remain must be wrong, they are telling lies. And they force this on others that, “You become like us only! Because our noses are cut so you also cut your noses.” On all types of people. If you go anywhere, all the Western people, what they have ruined is the culture, is the variety of culture. And such subtle cultures they have reduced to nothing! And by their aggression they have told people that, “We are the highest of highest. English language you must know! You must know French! You must know this!”

So, what I am saying is: when we understand, we have to change. We must know we have to be really humble. Not in language, not in behaviour but inside. To know that we do not aggress others. Alright?

So this Labour [party] and this one problem is only of aggression. One community here. Now, say you take an elite person, so-called elite. That’s why I liked ‘Evita’  – they have made a big satire on all the elites. The dancing how they do. They have made a big satire  on all the upper classes and all the lower classes and all that type. It’s a very good one, I must say. It’s a very good satire – ‘Evita’ . It’s a very good satire ever since long.

So, now, if you have that aggression within you existing, then better take it out. The culture of the Spirit has to come in you. That is to be there. If that culture doesn’t come, then these all cultures are very aggressive, and they can never give any happiness to anyone. Labour [Party] people think that they are hurt by the elites, or by the rich or the upper class. But what are they aspiring to be? They are aspiring to be the rich people themselves! They are hurt by the rich and they want to be the rich. It would be like, if you are hurt by somebody’s shoes, you become the shoe yourself. If you are hurt by the rich people then why do you want to be rich? It’s a simple question. For a person like me who has no materialism I cannot understand it.

Simon: Can I say something about our political system?

Shri Mataji: Yes.

Simon: It was set up on the three gunas, you have radicals who are Rajas, Conservatives who are Tamas and you have in the middle the Liberals who are Sattva, intelligence.

Shri Mataji: But I tell you Liberals also need Realisation! They are to be reborn. Otherwise you will had one horrible Jeremy Thorpe (a homosexual MP accused of murder)! Why did you give him anywhere the seat (in parliament). You gave him a seat, why should you give a seat? You should have courage to say, “Better not be there.” He has got a seat!

Yogi: He’s going back to his seat. He’s standing for his seat again.

Shri Mataji: Yes, What I am saying is: unless and until they take to realisation it will not work.

Yogi: I told David Steel about Mataji, I told David Steel about Mataji.

Shri Mataji: What I am saying [is]: just by proposing that you are in the centre you do not become. “Sahaja, Sahaja,” Kabira has said it: “Sahaja Sahaja, saba karata,” (meaning) “They all say Sahaja, Sahaja, but they are not!” You should be ashamed of such a horrible leader you had for so many days!

Simon: Jeremy Thorpe? Well he’s better than some that we’ve had.

Shri Mataji: No, no, horrible he is! You just see his vibrations. Horrible person he is! No, no, no. All of them are just the same! To me all of them are just the same – there is nothing to choose. But if you have a choice…

Simon: You see, England: we aren’t an aggressive nation and I don’t like you saying that we are an aggressive nation!

Shri Mataji: No, no, no. You are not aggressive when it comes to something else. But when it comes to cultures, you do like this.

Simon: Well we are uneducated, I admit. When we came to India we didn’t know what we were doing, so we cut off from it and we wouldn’t have anything to do with it.

Shri Mataji: What English brought from India? Pyjamas (laughter) Jodhpurs, verandahs. And what else did you buy? So, you are aggressive that way. You see? So, all these things have to be changed. Like Indians must change and they should not accept whatever you give them.

Simon: Our aim of being in India was not an aggressive one. And we weren’t aggressive!

Shri Mataji: In India?

New person: I don’t like hearing these things!

Shri Mataji: You may not like it but we have had it!! You don’t know how they treated us. You have no idea Simon.

Simon: When I go to India and why do they say, “Victoria Rani”? I want to know why in India they say “Oh, we want [Victoria] Rani back.”

Shri Mataji: Arey! If you pay money to someone!

Another person: Well I’ve met Indians who like Germans for kicking us out because they say without the second world war…

Shri Mataji: No, no, I tell you very simple. Just Simon, Simon. Listen, listen! I’ll tell you. You will understand. Very simple. It is very simple. It is a poor country. You give them money, they can sell you anything. They gave kitaabs and they gave these…we never had these. Like they called somebody [with a title]. What do you call that? All these M.A.D PhD’s and all that, that you have here? ‘Titles’! They gave titles and they gave this and that. English know how to do it. And they collected some people to say something about it. But the way they had to fight it out, you don’t know. You don’t know. You were not there.

Simon: Have you seen Satyajit Ray’s film ‘The Chess Players’ (शतरंज के खिलाड़ी)? Satyajit Ray is the best filmmaker in India.

Shri Mataji: That’s what you people think because he tells all about our poverty! He doesn’t know anything about our Indian culture, not a word. He doesn’t know anything about spirituality – Satyajit Ray. He is alright, people like him because he sings the saga of communism. That’s why people like him. That’s not India! He never represents India. It’s alright, he is very good at getting very old people who have somewhere showing all their ribs and stomachs and this and that. That’s how he does and people like it, because there is a kind of a sadism: we like to see poverty, we like to see some people being tortured because we feel we are tortured. It’s very subtle Simon, I tell you. You are a different person, you cannot understand it. But now you are different. I am not talking about the people who came to India, but I am saying today also as the Western mind is. With your rationality, with the so-called scholarships that you have, the so-called we can say industrial…

Simon: Indians these days go overboard for Bertrand Russell…

Shri Mataji: That’s what I am saying! This is what I am saying! The same thing as you are saying, I am saying the same thing. You are giving them and they are taking it, whether it is poison or anything! This is what I am saying. They are another type of fools! You are one type, they are another type. You aggress and they take it. If anything comes from India they will accept. If anything goes from England they will accept it! It’s a funny thing going on.

Yogi: But we get all these fake gurus all coming out from India.

Shri Mataji: Yes, that’s what I am saying! You take from them, they are another sect. They are sending some gurus to you, you accept them! And this is the mutual understanding going on. There’s a big fraternity of thugs!

Yogi: After all, you built a fantastic Wembley building for them!

Shri Mataji: (Laughing) See now! You see the joke! Whole thing! Once you say that, “We are British or not,” – finished there. You just say, “We are human beings,” and then you can see the whole joke. If I say, “I am an Indian,” I’m gone, finished!

Yogi: It’s not a political thing.

Shri Mataji: See, it’s not politically. It’s much higher. You don’t identify yourself with any group and then you can see the joke. If you are identified then you cannot.

New person: You don’t have to take it literally. You have to take the essence of what Shri Mataji is saying. You listen, you take the essence not the literal thing of what Mataji is saying.

Shri Mataji: No, no, no. If you listen to me, the whole thing you will understand it, very clearly, what I am trying to say. Don’t get angry. When I am saying “aggression is there”,  you see, what I do not understand that people do not study others and just [try to] bring about your own ideas onto another – that’s great aggression. Now, in my own house, my two daughters are there: I have not told them what is Kundalini! Can you beat it? Can you beat it? Even not told them what is Kundalini, leave alone giving Realisation. Same with my husband. If they do not want it, I am not going to aggress. This is non-aggression. But that doesn’t mean I accept aggression from them. So, when you accept aggression is the same as if you give aggression, if you do aggression. For me, both things are just the same.

So, when we have to change ourselves, we should say, “What do we do?” “Where are we?” “Are we aggressing others or are we taking aggression?” Now, say Atul feels guilty, then he’s taking in aggression. If you feel like [an] egoistical way that, “This is wrong! That is wrong!” then you are aggressing others. All these things must be seen in it’s full context and in the full view of the whole thing, so you will understand. But what happens [is] we identify ourselves with one part of life. We say, “This is the thing.” And either we aggress others in that case or we take aggression. This is sickness. This is the sign of sickness. Anytime this happens, sickness starts. And this is the cause of sickness of all the human beings all over the world.

But once you identify yourself with the whole then you start seeing the whole as a diseased thing. And then you feel [like] treating that disease as a doctor. Then you do not identify yourself with any sickness. Alright? That is what means ‘Sahaja’ life is.

So, now if you have somebody sick – alright – so now you understand that by helping that particular sick [person]…Of course, if it is your desire it will be done, because you are one with the whole. But the approach towards that sickness is difficult. Do you understand my point? It’s one way to help because he’s sick, he’s poor – is different. What I am saying: the approach should be that we become absolutely confident of Sahaja Yoga. We establish our own powers – absolutely. And then we make them also the same. Because they will fall sick, they’ll have all problems, unless and until they are alright. So that is the primary thing that must be done. Because on one side they are the people whose ego is hurt, the other side are the people who have been suffering from their egos. So, if you have to help both of them, you have to bring them in the centre. Alright? Do you understand my point now?

Now, to bring them in the centre is not to appease them. Not that way. But by developing the centre. Let the centre grow far, on both the sides, so it engulfs all that. Do you understand Maria?

Maria: Yes Mother.

Shri Mataji: They will never believe in God because that is the way they can assert their ego. Indians are another set of fools, absolutely set of fools, because [of] the way they are following you people! I mean you are already in the ditch, where are they going? Firstly, they do not have any values about honesty about them – that’s finished. Now even if they are getting the other values also from you then these sickly people, where will they be? As it is they are thieves. When a thief becomes an immoral person, now what will happen? It’s like somebody has been bitten by a scorpion and on top of that he takes wine, then what happens to such a person?

So the aggression is within, which is to be corrected. For all Realised-souls, it is important to see if we are taking any aggression within us is equally wrong as giving aggression to others.

We have to develop a set of people who have the idea of Reality, those who understand what is Reality. Those who are going to set in another type of way, which will cut down this vicious circle. We have to have that kind of mind, by which we see the disease of the whole and try to correct it. That’s how we can manage. But if you start identifying, even today I would say, with any one of them, you are mistaken. Now do you understand my point?

You just don’t identify with any one of them! You have to identify yourself with Reality, with your Self – to begin with. When you become that…

Yogi: Nirguna!

Shri Mataji: Not necessarily nirguna. You start with saguna only. Because I am in saguna, what to do? If you do not come in saguna – saguna is ‘with forms’ – if you do not come in the form, nobody understands, who will talk to you? A Nirguna cannot talk to you. So the saguna had to come.

Now you establish within yourself the complete understanding of the saguna. Now, don’t doubt too much. If you are a doubting Thomas you will end up with zero! I can tell you this much. We have had people for years together. There is one gentleman coming for seven years and you know him, and nothing could be done. And he’s supposed to be a wrangler in mathematics! So, you must see the people who have understood the saguna and how far they have gone; and, if you are to progress, you try to understand it now, first of all.

Secondly, you must also understand that you are going to be the people who are going to lead the whole world into a new awareness, into a new life, into a new dimension! So don’t identify with people who are still blind, who do not see. They’ll make you more blind. Identify yourself with people who have seen something. The ones who have had experiences, you identify [with]. Put your attention to them, then only you can see. And that is only possible when you start giving up your misidentifications.

Do you see? As long as you have misidentifications you will be mad! You would not know what to do about it. That’s sickness. You got involved into these identifications gradually, because the atmosphere is like that, the whole surrounding is like that. From all sides you have people who just engulfed [you]. They club you into it! You have to jolly well come in to it! Your freedom is cut off. You are not free to think about it. And that’s how you are not free from misidentifications. To begin with you were alright, but gradually you started getting enveloped and identified with your mistakes.

How are you responsible for what your forefathers have done in this country, or my forefathers have done in my country? Tell me. Who are they to you? They might have been born in China now with chinky eyes. (laughter) That’s it! Or could be in Rye (?), or could be running away with [Idi] Amin as his soldiers. Could be anywhere! And we are not responsible for them, whatever they have done. Alright? Keep it at that point.

Now, if you feel responsible even for anyone who belongs to your tribe, still it’s wrong, because you are different people. When you become that then you must identify yourself with the new tribe, the one who has known the Reality.

But human beings identify very easily with something so much illusory: like if you are born in England you are English, if you are born in India, you are Indian. You could have been born in Timbuktu or any place! These all misidentifications create this problem in you. Then with this identifications also, you go into complete circles. If you are an Indian, you start speaking like an Indian, behaving like an Indian: all the good and bad of it. Same with English, same with French, same with everything. Gradually you start, [the] misidentification starts working in you. But you are the Pure Thing inside. These all impurities cover you. So to free yourself from all these impurities, of any kind. I tell you this is like possession in you.

To be free absolutely of all these things is the ultimate aim.

So, all these ideas, when they come into your head, please remember that all these have come to us because we belong to a particular society,  a particular caste, a particular religion.

Now, for example, the other day, you know, there was a gentleman who said, “I feel very guilty all the time.” So I said, “Are you a Catholic?” He said, “No.” So I said, “You have no business to feel guilty!” (laughter) Because if you are a Catholic, you are made to feel guilty all the time!  It’s a collective. From childhood, if somebody gets a brain wash all the time, a little child doesn’t understand. You go and tell him, “You are a sinner.” He said, “No?” You go on telling him, he’ll say, “Am I a sinner?” Then he goes to the church. Then they tell, “You are a sinner.”

Yogini: You must confess!

French yogi: ‘Repent, repent’!

Shri Mataji: Repent, repent. Now he says, “What should I repent?” So he thinks about it, he goes to the priest and he tells him that, “I repent for one thing.” He said, “What?” “Because I opened the tap.” He said, “What?” “I opened the tap and my mother’s scolded me for that. I repent for that.” So it starts from there, and the whole thing starts working out. Then poor thing repents for something else. But inside, when he’s repenting, he’s building up a pouch. And that’s how these horrible people, so-called ‘Christians’ – or so-called ‘Hindus’ also we can say – all of them just the same. But I am saying about these, how they have gone against Christ. There’s one thing he taught is non-aggression! You make somebody feel guilty and you have it! Absolutely satanic! Is there any mention in The Bible, that Christ wanted somebody to confess to him? Where did He mention by any chance?

Yogis: No, no.

Shri Mataji: Then why these people have started this confession business? And who are they, compared to Christ, that they ask for confessions? Appointed by some theological college! Elected by some people where the smoke comes out of the chimney! (in the Vatican when the new pope is elected)

All these silly things you digest without thinking about it and then you are misidentified also Maria. Alright? So, you must understand. Be happy and joyous that you have found that Eternal Life and be one with it.

Maria: I will Mother

Shri Mataji: Alright. And you tell them off that, “You are all silly fools. And you go ahead with your idiocity! And when you are absolutely drowned, then come to us!”

Maria: I used to do that until they strangled me Mother. That’s when you found me Mother and you pulled me out of that.

Shri Mataji: I know.

Maria: That’s what I used to say to spiritualists. I used to tell them what I thought of them.

Shri Mataji: But why? A spiritualist whom are they? Do you know who indulges? All these poor things. Same in India! We have all these horrible tantrikas, this, that. If you see, tantrikas are mostly prevalent in Bengal, in Bihar, in U.P., in Kerala, in Madras, Assam. And there you find the poverty! And maximum are in Bihar which is the poorest of all!

I mean, see the absurdity of these people: that place that we went to, Kovalam, is in Kerala. The people are extremely poor and for the newspaper people this is the main issue they have – that poverty. They want to take advantage of it all the time – poverty. As if they are very poor, live like poor. And these people arranged my programme in a big hall, and it was a carpet or something, I don’t know what it is; so they published that she was living in suites of rooms with wall-to-wall carpet and this nonsense! I was, poor thing, living with these people! But why? Because they wanted to imply that she lives in luxury or whatever it is. I live always in luxury whether I am poor or rich – makes no difference to me! So, this is what is the accent they had. But why there is poverty, why don’t they think?

Do you know, in that country, such a wretched condition is, that Shri Adi Shankaracharya was born in that country, and these people told me that, “We do not know who he was and also we do not know that he was born in this country.” They should be ashamed of themselves! And the second thing that they did [was] that they tortured him because when he came back, when his mother was sick, they would not even give him water, they said, “You are a sanyasi, you have no business to come to your mother. “ And when she died they would not burn her. So, he burnt her in the house itself and he used all the banana trees to burn her off. And then he cursed that country that, “The way I had to burn my mother, you will be doing the same.” So now, they cannot burn. So what they do [is] they dig the graves and put them just in front of their houses. So imagine every house is hovered by all the thousands of horrible people who are dead! We went to one village and asked the condition of the people. They all ran out! They [the yogis] said, “Oh God!”  Ask Rustom – they said, “Mother, what sort of a village is this?” And then you talk of emancipating these horrible nonsensical people! Why should God do that?

They want to run after the tantrikas, then the bhoots come in and how can you have your problem of poverty solved? Tell me any country where there are so many bhoots and there is riches. Always you’ll find the poor people indulging more into it than the rich! And once the rich start indulging into it you’ll also become. It is a very simple thing. I can understand if you people do not know but Indians know this, but still they do it – that, if there is one bhoot coming inside your house, all your Lakshmi will be destroyed. Everyone knows this but still they do it in India.

Rustom: There’s no doubt Mother that the moment that you return to London the Left Agnya goes. And when you leave it you can feel it releasing. When I was in the plane going to Germany I could feel it release and when I was coming back it caught again.

Shri Mataji: England is full of it. No use bringing up Labour and Conservatives and all that. If they want to listen to me, destroy all these tantrikas from here, one and all – you’ll be alright. You try any trick – you will have problems. But who will listen to me? They used to believe in witches and all that once upon a time. There used to be witch hunting and all that, but they have stopped it. Now witches are very nicely settled down in this country.

Simon: Many Christians are witches Mother.

Shri Mataji: Yes! So-called Christians!

Simon: No. It doesn’t mean that they are bad. No! It doesn’t mean that they are bad.

Shri Mataji: They are not bad but they are bad, in a way, because they bring all the bhoots from outside.

Simon: No, they make the fields grow and we have to keep witches here otherwise we’d get no harvest.


Shri Mataji: Some bhoot is speaking through you. (laughter) Some bhoot is speaking through you, you know.

Simon: I’m sorry.

Shri Mataji: Simon, you are correct, but there is a witch in you that is speaking, you are not saying that. How can you say witches should be here when I have just told you all about them, what they do? Do you want people to suffer from poverty? Suffer from all kinds of mental diseases and troubles? We don’t want them here.

Simon: (continues muttering in a quiet voice like a madman)

Shri Mataji: What you want you do not know.  First of all you find out what you want, write it down, and let me know. First of all you should get rid of all these operations on you. In your room itself, there’s a problem: these witches are there, around. All of them are here. You must clear them. They all have to get out from this country. If, by my coming here, if I cannot do even that much, then what’s the use of my coming here? But if you are identified with them then what can I do about it?

All the churches are doing that. As I have told you already that this confession business is very wrong. Whatever is the problem of a particular country is to be handled in that particular country, isn’t it? In India also we have the same problem. But that’s a very different type. I mean it is not an organised religion so I can wipe it out better but it is organised here! The Seventh Day Adventists, these another horrible Pentecostals, they are organised, they are accepted by law, they are doing all these things here through law!

Arnaud: Mother, Don’t you think that, when they give you the sense of being guilty and all that, through the Christian and Catholic Church, [that] they want at the same time to increase their power?

Shri Mataji: Of course! This is the play, this is the play. But only an intelligent man can see that’s true. You make somebody feel very guilty, that is how they brainwash you! It’s only brainwashing. As Hitler could brainwash Germans, these people have also brainwashed you. In India, also, they do the same thing – brainwash you. They have done all kinds of brainwashing but the only difference is this, that the Western religions are all organised.

So when they are organised they become firm and they have much more power than a religion which is disorganised. You can hit them better! Now the priest here is so much respected! In India a priest is not respected so much. Ask him, he is a brahmin! (laughing) If a priest comes into our house we do not respect him. He takes money, we know he takes money. We do not respect him the way here the priest is respected. Because it is organised. They have made their norms and things by making some respect.

Arnaud: What is terrible [is that] they gave the illusion; and during the middle age they give to the Western countries knowledge, religion of knowledge. Because through the knowledge they wanted to introduce the religion. And afterwards religion became to be knowledge.

Shri Mataji: So the vicious circle starts. So you must decide it and you must give up your misidentifications, first of all. Because all your diseases come from your identifications. Alright? Say now you are Greek. Now Greeks also have certain misidentifications, quite a lot of them!

Maria: Many!

Shri Mataji: (laughing) So, once you start becoming a Sahaja Yogi or a universal personality, you just dissociate from all that, you do not stand for that. But if you are a real Greek, then you must tell all the other Greeks also that, “This is what it is!” If you really love them.

Arnaud: I would be pleased to say that to my aunts you know.

Shri Mataji: (laughing) About your aunts I am not so much worried! Because that’s an age now, they are gone. But what about the future that’s coming up? Now the people who belong to such organised religions, as they have, which has happened in India: in the same way it’s going to happen here also, that they are not going to believe in any religion whatsoever. The other side has started as you said! They don’t believe in any God.

Maria: I don’t really know what they need to find out.

Shri Mataji: Nothing! It’s just a swing from one extreme to another extreme, that’s all. There is no direction, there’s no guidance. It’s just a swing from believing into it too much – fanaticism – to another [which] is non-belief! Our Sahaja Yoga is not like that at all. Extremes, you know, extremes.

So from one extreme and to another extreme they go just automatically. I mean it is absolutely inevitable. You have to stop in the centre. And those who are stopping must grow so they engulf all that. This is what I am trying to tell you. Alright?

And when you start seeing them, then you will know how horrible they are.

Maria: It’s very painful.

Shri Mataji: It’s very painful to see how horrible they are, it’s true. We have to of course cure them, but first we should be alright, all of us, and we should pull all these things together.

Rustom: I don’t know Mother, I’ve noticed about the way that negativity works is that it attacks people and then it makes you feel sorry for them and then it sucks all your energy so that you have no chance to do any work for Sahaja Yoga.

Shri Mataji: You see, also negativity is there. Like Rustom had this problem before – he was over-sympathetic. If you have sympathies…if you see the meaning [of] ’sympathy’ – it means ‘sharing pathos’.

You share their pathos isn’t it! (laughing) So this is also there. And now why I said this is that you have, in these Western countries, you have seen the aggression of your [forefathers], so you are taking to the other course. You are over-sympathetic. And that thing is going to tell against you, absolutely. There is nothing to sympathise. There is to be so strong, that you just solve the problems like that. Sitting down here you should be able to solve the problem. So develop your powers. Alright Simon? That’s what it is. You must develop your powers. And how will you develop them is by becoming silent and silent within and seeing for yourself. You have to just assume! You have powers already. You have been enriched by all the Adi Shakti. Everything has been done for you. You’ve got it. You are already empowered. Just use that. Can you doubt that you are not empowered? You already have got powers and also most of you know what is to be done. You know what is this power to be used for. You have the knowledge as well. But only thing is to assume it! You have to assume.

Maria: We need the wisdom as well.

Shri Mataji: You have! You don’t need Maria. You have a lot of it. Only thing is don’t sympathise with them. Just don’t worry about them. They are foolish people.

Maria: This is what I have been doing all the time.

Shri Mataji: That’s not proper. You don’t waste your energy on that, that’s why you have thinned down so much. There’s a saying in Urdu, “Kazidli bidli ka shayed kya deshakte” (?) they say, “Priest, why are you so sick? Because you are worried about the whole world”!


Pay attention. But your attention should be detached in that case. If it is not a detached attention you cannot do that.

Maria: It is only through Sahaja Yoga that I start feeling a lot of extra powers. A detachment from these things. But I still have a long way to go.

Shri Mataji: No, no, not difficult. It’s only one second you need. You just say, “Go away all of you!”

Child: Go away!

Shri Mataji: So, we had an example of that in Delhi. We had those Ramkrishna mission people. There was a lady who had cancer from the same ashram and she said, “Why? I was doing upkar (charity), I was helping others. I was looking after them.” I said, “Then why did you get cancer?” She said, “Now in my upkar  I’ve got it.” So I said, “You enjoy it now!” You have paid for it by doing upkar! You just do it without doing it. You even do not know you are doing it. It’s so simple as that. Alright?

Maria: It becomes part of your inner religion.

Shri Mataji: Yes, otherwise, you think you are doing something, that means pride comes into you, and the whole thing is spoiled.

Arnaud: But Mother, the more we surrender and the more we have faith, the more it will be alright.

Shri Mataji: Yes, it will be alright. If you are alright, if you are strong people, then the Viraata becomes alright, the Primordial becomes alright – if you become a strong body. If some part of the body is sick you can cure it. How many cells you need to fight them? Not much.

But we are the fighting cells. We have to fight them. By not becoming identified with them. You have to fight with them in such a way that you do not weep for them. [That] means you are affected by them. No! You are detached. You just say, “You will be alright,” and they will be alright. So much powers you have! Do you know that? But once you start weeping for them, the power is neutralised. It should be done without any guide, anything, you just say, “Alright, you will be alright.”

Which is all well and good. Otherwise there is no question of prestige for us! If somebody is cured, well and good. We have not taken everybody’s bond that we should do it. We’ll do if we want to. If we don’t want to we’ll not do it. It’s in complete freedom that we do it. At least I do! It’s in absolute freedom. If I want to do, I will do; otherwise I will not do. In the same way you should be. So then the detachment comes. Complete freedom is also complete detachment, and that is complete love.

Maria: Sometimes Mother when I go to some place people say that they used to know me before feeling very much for them and showing it, and that, if through Sahaja Yoga you become unfeeling…That’s how they interpret it.

Shri Mataji: Unfeeling? No you should say, “Now I understand that what was lacking. And I have too much feeling for you. You become Sahaja Yogis.” They always depended on you and you had to give them. Now you should say, “You also become givers! Through Sahaja Yoga you can become equal to me. I want you to become that.” Sitting down and weeping for somebody is no good. And some people are like this also.

Maria: They like the sympathy?

Shri Mataji: They like the show of the thing. Say you go to a place and they say, “Oh, have you seen? Is he with her?” All that should go away.

Maria, for a person like me, I will just, I may not even bother. Why should I? I’m not attached. But then people like it if somebody comes and too much asks. That’s not feeling! Feeling is when it is in pure detachment. You are not feelingless, you are not emotionless, but you are emotion. You become the emotion. Emotion is identified with you completely. Do you understand?

Maria: Yes.

Shri Mataji: You are the emotion. The complete ocean: ocean of emotion. You generate emotion! When you are with people they get into emotions. You can inspire emotions into them. But nobody’s emotion should affect you, then only it is possible. Even the ocean cannot become like a pond.

Maria: Do you remember Mother, in the letter, I wrote a sentence that I have a little bit of a problem of work. This was the problem. Although I put the peoples names in a bandhan and I would pray for them at home, at work I would be detached from their emotions and their problems and because of that they would be upset why they could not attract my attention. You see, my attention was attracted but not to the point to become part of it and that would upset them and that’s why I had the problem because they sent very negative vibrations back which eventually I could not tolerate and feel..

Shri Mataji: No, you should be tactful about it. You should be tactful. You should be tactful about them. That is not the thing. Only thing is, even if you bleed, it doesn’t matter as long as it doesn’t hurt you inside. If it’s all outside, it’s alright. Attention, when you give to somebody, you should be fully attentive to yourself.

Maria: But the attention Mother, that they needed was a selfish one which I did not entertain.

Shri Mataji: Don’t entertain them. What I am saying is that, as you are Realised you will be surprised that you are in a different wavelength absolutely, on a different position. And it is going to be a little difficult to adjust with others because they want you [to be] the same person [you were]. You cannot be the same. You are a different one. It was only that you could give them something for the time being, that’s all. But now, they will know that you have curative powers; you can cure them, you can do things. Your value [to them] will go up much more! So you need not try to worry about these things. Gradually they will accept you.

Maria: Things have sorted themselves out.

Shri Mataji: Yes, they will sort it out! There are thousands of people behind you! You don’t know there are chiranjeevas (eternal beings) there are great personalities behind you. So you just let go. And we are not to be guided by their norms, not by them. We have to put our own norms because we are different people. But first have confidence in ourselves! [That’s the] first thing.

Are you better Atul? Now, Simon how are you? Are you feeling guilty about something?

Simon: (muttering) No.

Shri Mataji: Now you don’t swing from one end to another, just try to keep in the centre. You have read a lot and you know a lot, that’s called as dhyana. You have got dhyana. But you haven’t got bodha. Means your dhyana is not enlightened as yet. Aright? Because one is ‘to know’, and the another is ‘to know that the knowledge is enlightened’. This is the difference between the two. Alright?

The other day Gavin asked me, “What is samadhi?” So I told him [that] it is enlightened awareness. Enlightened awareness. You are aware, but you are not enlightened. Samadhi is that.

So in Sahaja Yoga, first you get nirvichara samadhi – that is thoughtless enlightened awareness. And secondly you get nirvikalpa samadhi – that is doubtless enlightened awareness. So to go to doubtless condition you must know [how] to avoid doubts. You have to change your style of approach. Other things you might have achieved through doubting, but Sahaja Yoga you achieve through dissolving.

Gavin: You even have to pretend that you don’t doubt to start with.

Shri Mataji: You have to go on pretending with yourself. Tell your mind, “I am not going to doubt.” Go on for a while. Then it works out.

There’s nothing like the faith. Faith, I am saying, not the blind faith but faith. You have got the vibrations now. Now believe into them! That’s the only way! There’s no other way out I can tell you this much. Those who have taken to doubting will never approach it. You’ll be thrown away all the time with doubts. And a time may come when my attention may recede and you’ll drop out just like that. You just cannot do Sahaja Yoga like that. But blind faith is not needed. First you feel the vibrations. You see for yourself.

Either we absolutely have blind faith or we have rationality. Can’t we be something in between? The people who are absolutely blind are useless. They might be saved because if they can ask questions to me that, “Are you this? Are you that?” Then they can be saved. If they come to that point! But those who are rational, they can never come into it! Because it’s like jumping like a monkey, from one branch to another branch. You can never land down.

It’s only through faith, shraddha, through surrendering [that] you are going to achieve that state. And then [no] small ripples here and there, nothing, is going to disturb you. You are going to enjoy that state within yourself. Allow your faith to dissolve you.

You know the time is very short. You’ve got your Realisation and you take so much time after that to come up to that, and that time is very much lost. Why do it? Now you have seen people who have shraddha how far they have gone, so why not follow them?

So that is very important that, by doubting you are not going to achieve anything! You’ll be tossing. But you are to really put…

Shri Mataji: Big girls have gone out (laughter) The big girls have gone out to play, you also go out and play with them, alright?

Child: Ok. (laughter)

Shri Mataji: Alright. See, how confident! Because they are innocent. They have faith in themselves. So stop your rationality. It is not going to take you anywhere! You have to learn to develop your shraddha. Even [if] you get Realisation, you cure people, you do anything.

We have an example of somebody you know of. His mother was cured just like that. He was cured just like that. He got a job just like that. He got whatever he wanted, and then suddenly he drops out! Without any shraddha. So that is what it is. So many have done like that because if you do not have shraddha, you get tired of jumping from one to another. All the time you are doubting in this. It’s just a mental feat. We like to do circus for a while, it’s alright, but forget it! Now jump into it and get it! Now what do you lose? You lose nothing!

Yogi: We lose ego.

Shri Mataji: Ego. You lose your ego but you get your personality. What do you lose? Nothing. You get all the powers. Now the time is too short and you are taking too long to do it. And some of you will be tired, jumping like that all the time with your doubts, this way, that way. And what are you doubting? It’s all free. You don’t have to do anything about it. And doubting people can be quite foolish. They doubt about every nonsensical thing which has no meaning at all. They see things which do not exist because it’s just a habit, or you can say an indulgence; you can say an entertainment for people, to doubt into this. And then doubt. You see they are just jumping like monkeys. Stop that!

Any one of you who goes [deep] down into shraddha and dissolves becomes a great instrument in the hands of God! Even to say that, “I doubt,” is wrong. These people think we are very honest by saying, “I doubt. I doubt Mother.” Please give up such ‘honesties’! It’s absurd! This is ego which is making you say these things that, “I doubt.” Because by saying that, it exists and you feel you are very honest. It’s not you are doubting, your ego is doubting. When you realise that, that your ego is doubting, it will become easier. “It’s not I who is doubting, it’s my ego which is doubting. Or maybe some possession in me which is doubting.” “Am I playing into the hands of some possession or my own ego?”

That’s what it is – hundred percent! Because those who have not doubted have gone too far. You have seen people in India. You have seen Dhumal – he never doubted! His own brother, he was helped so much: he had no money to eat his food, he had gone to that condition because he had put a lot of money in a business which was failing. When he came to Sahaja Yoga his business started earning just like that. He became a moneyed man. His child was sick, he was cured. He was sick, he was cured. His wife was sick with something incurable, she was cured. But still he was doubting. He started taking drinks after that. He never used to take drinks [but] after doubting he started taking drinks. He did all that was prohibited in Sahaja Yoga just to prove his point. And where is he now?

I would say, pay attention to your Self and not to your doubts! The doubts are coming from some dark corners of your mind which is with you. What are you going to lose is the point you must look into. Sort it out there. What have others lost? They have gained. Those who have doubted have lost, lost time. So don’t waste your time in useless things. There’s nothing to doubt. Every word I say is the truth and the truth.

See the vibrations. You see! I have to boast [to make the vibrations flow]. You see! Every word. So don’t doubt it! Just take it and take it and take it. I know all this myself. I am not going to achieve anything by telling you these things, except that you will know me and I will know you.

You are not to lose anything. You have to gain. So tell your mind to shut up for a while! It is already running with a very fast speed.


We want to get to that state of complete doubtless awareness and, for that, are we going to carry these doubts in our pockets? They have no meaning. They will all be neutralised. You have seen people who have neutralised it. But those who do it (doubting)…I have no word.

Steady your shraddha. Steady it! It’s a force. It’s like a flame of a candle. Steady it! But by your doubts you are putting heavy pressure on it and it has to face those doubts. You are weakening yourself! Steady it. All of you steady it.

Simon you have to get well. You are a seeker for ages now. In many lives you have been seeking. And now you are not going to play about anymore. Alright? You are going to be a certain ?? . Absolutely

Simon: Mataji may I go now?

Shri Mataji: Alright. You may go.

Simon: See you.

Shri Mataji: And you throw those away and bring seven more [lemons] to me in my house.

Simon: Tomorrow night?

Shri Mataji: Tomorrow night.

Simon: What time would you like me to turn up?

Shri Mataji: Oh, any time from about five onwards, that’s better. Alright? Five, six, anytime. Come to my house, bring them. And ask Philippa to come and see me also tomorrow evening, if possible, because I’ll talk to her about this, what is to be given.

Simon: Seven chillies as well as seven lemons?

Shri Mataji: Yes, yes. Alright? And as I love you, try to love yourself. And now don’t get after yourself.

I tried to tell you because there’s time today I can tell you about these things, for certain chakras how to clear them, even physically you can try. One of them is of Vishuddhi chakra.

Now for Vishuddhi chakra I have told you many things but you can try one more thing which will help you. Is to put your head on the ground like this, near a bed, with your feet on the bed, resting on the bed. And try to come on the bed more and more, the body. Push it on the bed so the whole pressure comes up here. Alright. And then keep my photograph handy. In that stage you see my photograph. It will improve your Vishuddhis. In that case, in case you have Left Vishuddhi, then you turn your face towards the right and see it. If you have the Right Vishuddhi then turn your face to the left and see my photograph. That will help you because all of you have Vishuddhi problem. This will be of help.

Yogi: You mean the neck on the floor?

Shri Mataji: On the floor if you lie down. Now just lie down now, facing that side towards the…yes, now go ahead, like that. Gavin be careful. Now, go down. You go down, and more, more. Again try to bring this lower portion on top.

Rustom: Bring the body straight.

Shri Mataji: Yes. So that there isn’t much of a Hatha Yoga.  Can you see? Yes.

Yogi: Do you rest the weight on your shoulders or the head? Pressure on the neck?

Shri Mataji: More on the Vishuddhi. Better now?

Yogi: Where do you have the photo if you’re not going to look at it?

Shri Mataji: No, no. You have the photo whichever side you look.

Yogi: Yeah, I know. But if you’re not going to look to the left or the right?

Shri Mataji: You turn your photograph with you. You must look at the photograph isn’t it? Because it helps your Agnya, always. If your Agnya is cleared out with that. Otherwise the Agnya is blocked. You see? Better?

Gavin Brown: Hmmm. It’s very good.

Shri Mataji: It’s very good this way. All of you should try this thing. I have told you about, for Swadishthana, what should be done. That you remember?

Yogi: Should I show them?

Shri Mataji: Yes show them what is to be done for Swadishthana – physically.

Yogi: And you say the mantra?

Shri Mataji: Yes you can say the mantra, would be a good idea.

Now for people who have a problem of Mooladhara, or those who cannot sit on the ground and sort of a things: for them it’s [helpful] to practice with both your legs like this. Put them like that, you too have the same problem. Put these two [feet] together like this. You see, you cannot stretch it much. Try to stretch it down (the knees) on to the ground! Try to, try to, as much as you can! Not, in one shot you cannot do it!

Yogi: You have to [try] to put your knees down?

Shri Mataji: Yes. Put your knees down. They must touch the ground. I can do [this] quite a lot, despite my fat! Try to raise it and push that down. Gradually you have to do it. You’ll do it, in a month, you will work it out. That’s very good. You lift this so only your Mooladhara is touching.

First you do this exercise then that one will work out.

Just try. See! It’s working out. It’s much better now. Gradually it is. It is working out. You see, it is much better now. You see gradually it will work out, gradually, if you do it.

It’s good for Mooladhara. For all the people who have mooladhara problem, this would be a good idea.

So gradually we should see to different chakras, everything. Now for Hamsa also, Hamsa, I’ll tell you what is to be done. You lie on your body like that, on your stomach.

Yogi: For which chakra?

Shri Mataji: For the Hamsa. Now come along! Put your these things, Mooladharas, here on the Hamsa, and now ask the Mother Earth to suck in your problem. But the pressure should be quite a lot on that.

Now you move it. Better? You feel better? You can feel the sensation at the bottom. Allow them to disappear. Here, even your pressure will go away from your…You’ll feel relieved from the pressure. Better?

Now meditate.

Even with your Vishuddhi here, would be a good idea, to the Mother Earth.

Aum sakshat Omkara swarupini.

It is Omkara and it becomes Christ here. So take Omkara here.

No Deity, because it’s a nirguna.

This is just relaxing. And for relaxing your sides you can lie down you can put your head on Mother Earth. Any of the cheeks on Mother Earth, you see.

But this is not the end of everything! You have to use the mantras, and with dedication and devotion.

Better? Much lighter now. It’s good.

How are you? You have been at sea?

Yogi: No, not at sea but I have been going into the sea.

Shri Mataji: Good. (laughing) That must have solved all your problems! It’s a good idea. That’s what I say: get into the sea. Good. Very good.

Yogi: Because these places where we go, you see, it’s surrounded by people who come for non-dharmic things. So you are in the midst of them and you jump into the sea!

Shri Mataji:  But now they are having a bad time. Everywhere you see now, all these resorts are having a bad time. Earthquakes are coming to resorts and things. Earthquakes and also lots of hurricanes and all these things are happening, because if you do adharmic things then the sea itself gets angry.

Yogi: Do you remember last year in Spain with the fires, nine hundred people died?

Shri Mataji: Yes very much. That also happened. All kinds you know. This Greek ship this tanker, landed. In France there is one resort which was all finished by this thing. And in Spain it was finished when they brought a gas, this thing. So, everywhere. Now there’s a hurricane and the other day I read about an earthquake coming.

Yogi: Well in the Caribbean right now there’s a volcano erupting

Shri Mataji: Yes, Volcano is bursting. All the Caribbean sea that was misused for adharmic things.

Arnaud: Mother, I read an article in the Herald Tribune I read an article that said that, not only wars but nature is coming to be angry and we must be very careful. And I gave Gregoire this article.

Shri Mataji: But this is all wrong you are doing. Imagine behaving like this before the sea!

Yogi: But in some parts of the Caribbean they are very dharmic people. I saw a programme where an old lady was reading a Bible. She was in charge of the cash register and she would serve the customers and then read the Bible.

Shri Mataji: Something is coming up there also.

Yogi: But it’s mixed with a bit of spiritualism.

Shri Mataji: Nothing clear cut, you know. Nothing in absolute way. So, these small, small patchworks, what are they going to help? You need a volcano! Really! What to do? That’s why I say, “What’s the use in having sympathy with these horrible people?” The whole of Caribbean sea they have ruined. Whole of it.

Yogi: And California.

Shri Mataji: California is another! That’s going to blast out very nicely!

Yogi: Last year they did have a fire didn’t they, which damaged quite a lot of the properties and areas. Do you remember?

Shri Mataji: Oh they had recently something there?

Yogi: Yeah.

Shri Mataji: A hurricane came in I think.

Yogi: California?

Shri Mataji: Yes. Very recently.

Yogi: Not California, Florida.

Shri Mataji: No, no. California itself. There was.

Yogi: A fire.

Shri Mataji: A fire broke out yes, fire broke out.

Yogi: I drove through that place where the star’s homes are. They couldn’t stop the fire.

Yogi: Hollywood is one of the worst places in the world.

Shri Mataji: They generate sin.

Yogini: And they export it all over the world.

Shri Mataji: Yes, they generate all that is blasphemous. They teach people how to sin. They give people licentiousness. Give them all the power that is needed to fight the Absolute, the truth. They brainwash you.