Dollis Hill Seminar Day 1, (morning) “the tricks of false gurus”, London (UK) 27 May 1979.

Sahaja Yogi: [Inaudible]
Shri Mataji: But this kind also, spiritually kind of things is there.
Sahaja Yogi: I don’t know [inaudible] These people went to India, those Yugoslav, and teach Yoga because they have a guru there.
Shri Mataji: Oh. You know my husband is a citizen of Yugoslavia.
Sahaja Yogi: Yes, really?
Shri Mataji: He got the citizenship of Potenza or something or some place, he got the citizenship. He has such a lot to do with Yugoslavia surprisingly. And they had ordered some ship from Yugoslavia, a huge big tanker [inaudible] oil.
And I suggested to my husband, “Why not be decorated in Indian style? Because Indian boys will be on the ship and after all, we have a lot of handmade things and we can decorate it better”.
And-be comfortable, sit a little bit so you can be comfortable also there, be comfortable-

And then we decorated. I decorated the ship sitting down in India only. And they have turned out very good. Two ships were there; one was called as Jawaharlal Nehru and another was Lal Bahadur Shastri , these two ships.

Sahaja Yogi: Your husband, Mother, and he went to Yugoslavia.
Shri Mataji: My husband. [Inaudible]

Shri Mataji: But on the whole, people are more, sort of, in a state, you see, stable people, that’s why. Not too much of communism, not of much of this. But I still feel that as far as the morality part is concerned, they are a bit loose there.
Sahaja Yogi: That’s right. They drink too much
Shri Mataji: Drink too much
You can get divorce in Yugoslavia very easily.
Shri Mataji: That’s it, you see. Because one of the gentlemen whom I knew very well, every time he came, he came with a new wife. And it was difficult for us to remember.
[Laughter]
Shri Mataji: In India. Indians that way are foolish, they don’t understand these things. So, when he came for the second time with another wife, you see, they thought it was his sister, you see. And they said, “Is she your sister?” And so many things happened like that, quite embarrassing.

Like, one gentleman is sixty years old and he has a wife who’s about sixteen or eighteen, something like that. So, she comes to a party and everybody says, “Oh, very nice your daughter is, very nice your daughter is”. And nobody can even conceive of a thing that she could be the wife, you see. Because she’s coming [inaudible]. And in India the wife will never, sort of, cling to the husband and come here. She would be little away. This lady is clinging to the father because only the daughter would cling to the father in India you see.
[Laughter]
So, they would say, “It’s the daughter”. And if you tell them, then you should see their faces, “Ah? How can they?”
But they are getting sophisticated now, Indians are also. They are getting sophisticated.

But, you see, these young people can become quite funny. The other day, one- I told them that one gentleman came as a sadhu, dressed like a sadhu, and I was in Bombay. He came for three days, in a program, continuously, three days. And he came and I mean, he touched my feet, he sat down, he said, “Mother, I must get my Realization” and all that. “Till three days, you were OK, what’s wrong with you? You seem to be a nice man. What’s the matter? You see, outwardly you are so nice, why your Kundalini doesn’t rise? It’s frozen.” Like that and third day, it just froze up, you see, it came to a point and then it went down. And then somebody told Me, “He’s the guru of Mahesh yogi”.
Sahaja Yogi: His guru?
Shri Mataji: Guru of Mahesh yogi, he’s.
Sahaja Yogi: [Inaudible]
Shri Mataji: Yes, they said, “He is the one”.
Sahaja Yogi: [Inaudible]
Shri Mataji: No. The one who is now his guru. There’s one who is now his guru.
Sahaja Yogi: [Inaudible]
Shri Mataji: You see, because this was told to Me, whosoever it is, I’ve forgotten his name, but this one is real guru he has. This is the one who is his guru.

Sahaja Yogi: [Inaudible]
Shri Mataji: And he stays there in the train. Because one gentleman, one mister Jaholi, who is with the railways, who has been with the TM also, and he came and tole Me that he became very closed to Maheshyogi. And this Maheshyogi he used to go and touch his feet every day and this fellow was living with him. He said this.

Who’s this guru is it? This Maheshyogi tells you lies.
Sahaja Yogi: Maheshyogi is a guru and [inaudible]
Shri Mataji: [inaudible] That’s why he was horrible, absolutely, the worst of all. The worst of all these, I would say, Shankarachani he was the worst.
All the devils have become Shankarachani [inaudible] all of them are devils except for one who was a Realized soul and then they threw him out, Kanshi fellow. They threw him out.
Sahaja Yogi: [Inaudible]
Shri Mataji: Who’s swami?
Sahaja Yogi: [Inaudible]
Shri Mataji: [Inaudible]
Sahaja Yogi: [Inaudible]
Shri Mataji: Pune. In Pune there is no but maybe. Maybe, you see they are-
Sahaja Yogi: But he gave up. The story is that he gave up.
[Inaudible]

Shri Mataji: Oh, that fellow!
Sahaja Yogi: That’s right.
Shri Mataji: Oh! But that too he is no good. He is not a Realized soul, I know, I know. He is not a Realized soul at all! He’s also not a Realized soul. So, what does he get? Only the Shankaracharya said that, “They are not Realized souls, they’ll get their Realization”.

And then, this Swamirama has done also a lot of – [Inaudible]
Sahaja Yogi: [Inaudible]

Shri Mataji: Oh! And how, when did he die?
Sahaja Yogi: [Inaudible]
[Laughter]
Shri Mataji: That’s it. That was the only way he could die, you see?
Sahaja Yogi: [Inaudible]

Shri Mataji: He was horrid. I’ll tell you what they do. You see, they do not go to jungle or forest to seek God. They’ll go there to seek power. You see, they confuse Power, Shakti, with all the funny things. Now, the other day, were you for my lecture in Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan hall? Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, you were there?
Sahaja Yogi: No.
Shri Mataji: No. So, there I told as, we have got around us also other things like supraconscious and we’ve got the left-hand side, subconscious and all that. And also, the Hell below, you see. It is easy to go to the three places, very easy. So, what they try to do is to go to supraconscious also this side. And there, achieve these things. And that is what they really want. They do not want the Superconsciousness; that, they do not ask for. And they go for that and they will do all kinds of things just to get it, you see. So, they go to treachery, this, that.
This is not what I was going to talk to you about. Now do you think our Sahaja Yogis are efficient enough for [inaudible]? Or we should, I mean, later on talk about this point which I wanted to tell you: how the Kundalini rises or what are the subtle things that happen. And Raja Yoga and what are the differences between the two.
Sahaja Yogi: [Inaudible]

Shri Mataji: You should stay over, good idea. Yes, it’s a good idea. You should stay over, it’s a good idea, yes, a good idea. You see, this fellow is, ‘Brahmanand and the Saraswati’ [false guru’s names] anyone of these, are nothing but supraconscious, you see, masters, they are supraconscious. Masters in the sense they catch hold of people who were very ambitious, you see, they are dead bodies. Say, an Indian tomorrow dies, say for example. Take it official like that. They will, all of them will hover around him. They’ll try to capture his soul, you see. There’s a method by which they do it, is to have a [inaudible] they will have a siddhi about it. We should not call it a siddhi, because siddhi has something to do with Superconsciousness. But what I mean, the control over the spirit and the way they do it. That, you see, how they practice this art of dead is very simple. And to begin with, what they have to do is to fix their attention at a point.
Say, if you fix your attention in the dark: now you don’t try all these tricks, I’m just telling you what they do they do. But it’s not meant for trying anything of this for you, because you are not interested in this nonsense and this is only for people who want to, sort of, exploit the supraconscious methods. So, they fix their attention say to a dark, in a dark room to a point which is light. They will put a black thing, all right, make a hole in that and sit down in a dark room and put a light there. And then watch through that little hole, very small aperture you can call it.

So, you get a very little light coming through that and they go into that: so, your attention starts piercing through your Agnya. The Agnya is pierced out, you see, so you are entering into the supraconscious area. Or else, also you can enter into the subconscious, depending on what is your desire and things like that. So, you can enter into that. Once you start entering into the supraconscious or into the subconscious, especially the subconscious area, is easy to do with that, then what they do is to put your attention onto dead.

Like, you see you go, a person dies, they’ll sit down there and they’ll think of the person they expect. Now, if you can understand this way that if you are in England, you can see England.
If you are in India, you can see India. In the same way, if you know how to go to India, you can also see India. It is just like a television set. You see, if you can put your Agnya to your dead, you can go into the dead area. So, they start seeing the dead, they see the apparitions, they see people, devils coming down, they see all these things. They can see. And then, these gurus tell them how to man it and also how to overpower these spirits that you see. So, then they go into another kind- I mean this kind, for any kind of, they call it, as the “prataka”, they call it as “prataka”, that you do the “prataka”.
Now this concentration of a Agnya, if you start doing it, you see, then you develop a- they call it a siddhi, but I would not call it a siddhi, because the spirit may just overpower them also, possibly. If not, they might overpower the spirit. So, with the help of the spirit, they start doing some tricks. This is only one style I will tell you, but there are so many ways of doing this, of this concentration business.

So, your attention goes into the supraconscious or into the subconscious, there. Once your attention goes there, then these people who are there, you see, they start taking interest in you because most of them are busy bodies. You see, they cannot retire from old life. So, they are around these, so they come down to your help.
15:58
Now the supraconscious people, which, of course this fellow is angry, ‘Brahmanand and the Saraswati’ [false guru’s names] and all this sort you see, what they do, they- these are the busy bodies like the doctors who are dead, like the scientists who are dead, who have had nothing to do with searching of God, nothing to do of getting bliss in life but always have been running up and down. Especially in these times, since, say about a hundred years back, since this industrial revolution has started, people have lived on the speed, you see, very speedy people have come out, they have been ego-oriented people. So, we have much more dead people of this kind in the last hundred years, you see. So, this kind of people were not so much harnessed [unsure] before as they are nowadays. Because they are much more in the atmosphere, especially in the Western side, they are much more in the atmosphere, even in India. You see, any scientist, who is dead, is not satisfied because he thinks he has not achieved anything, his name or something, he must at least appear in one new book. So, if he has not done that, then they are very unhappy, you see, so, they don’t want to die.

When they don’t want to die, you see, they hover around, then they try to come just- they are, you see, helpers. So, if you are a doctor, they’ll just come handy for you to help you like that. Or, maybe, otherwise, you can do that.

Now, like that doctor Lang’s example, I always give it, it’s very interesting. He is in England, he would die in England, this fellow. You must find this fellow if he is finished or his organization still exists or not. Its name was International Organization of curate-
Sahaja Yogi: [Inaudible]
Shri Mataji: “Hardy land”.
Another Sahaja Yogi: [Inaudible]
Shri Mataji: No, one day you catch on the left so much, you beat him with shoes horrible fellow. O, this is his son!
Sahaja Yogi: [Inaudible]
Shri Mataji: I’ll tell you about him, if he’s the same now you’ll locate him. Maybe the same or somebody’s name now. This one was some “Land International” I don’t know whatever he was. This fellow died long time back and this one was a doctor. And then, you see, he was not satisfied of himself. So, he was hanging around or whatever it was, you see. And he just thought that he should come into somebody. So, there was one soldier, English soldier fighting in Vietnam for the things, you see- an American soldier, I am sorry, American soldier. And he came into his being and he told him, “I’m such and such doctor Lang in London. So, you’d better go and see my son. And this son will be able to help you a lot and I will work through you and you should not be frightened”. So, first this fellow opposed him. But he said, “No, you have to be, because you are a healthy man, nothing can happen to you. My son is not that healthy, so you come along.” And he brought him down here. When he came here to England, he went and saw the son. And the son could not believe it. So, he told him all the secrets that pass between the father and the son, you see. So, that’s how the father had faith in him and- the son had faith and they started this organization “International Curative Center of Doctor Lang”. Late doctor Lang, imagine!
So, the late doctor Lang worked through this soldier, and this doctor was absolutely surprised but they made a lot of money.
[Laughter]

And what they did was to inform the people. Like, supposing one mister X was in India or, that’s how I came to know about them. Because they came to Me for treatment later on. So, mister X would write to them that, “I’m so sick this and this disease and do something about it”. So, they would send the message that, “All right, at this time, at this state, at this moment, we’ll come and help you”. But I must say, being an English man, they were not as crooked as Indians are. And they were very honest about it and they said they were using spirits, you see. So, they didn’t say- they said late doctor Lang. You know, they didn’t tell lies even when they were dead. [Shri Mataji is laughing] That they were doing themselves. So, I mean he just said that, it was like that. And there was a lady who came to see Me, and she told Me that she had some sort of a rheumatism or what, something she had. And then they wrote to this doctor Lang’s this thing. And then one day, you see, then they wrote that, “You stay in bed and all that, and be on the watch”. And then she started shivering and this thing, you see. And people went in the queue for that, you see, to get three months or four months ahead of things, you see. I mean they must be asking for some spirit to come down to help them. So- or maybe some doctors or some people might be coming just to help them, these spirits. I mean the dead spirits of these ambitious people. And they would put these doctors into their body and they would enter into the body and cure them, I don’t know how they managed it. And she felt all right for a few months. Then she came to Me.
Of course, when she came to Me, she was like, “Oh what’s going on”. So, I said, “What’s the matter? You are possessed”. She said, “How can I be possessed? I belong to doctor Lang.” I said, “Who is this doctor Lang?” She said, “He is no more and he is dead”. And she was talking like that. And I asked her all the things then she told Me what has happened. I said, “Now what is your complaint, now?” She said, “Now I am all the time shaking. If I see God’s photograph, I mean name even taken or anything, I just shake. All the time I’m shaking. So, I don’t know what to do. They told me, ‘You are Parkinson disease or something is there’”. I said, “Nothing of the kind, you are pure and simply possessed”. And then we tried this lime, lemon treatment and all that. After that, she was cured completely but it took a lot of time for this doctor Lang to get out of her”.
So, this is how I came to know how they are practicing these things all the way from England, you see, this fellow was practicing this. Maybe this is doctor Lang, this another “Hardy Land” maybe a different person. But this, I’m telling you, there was a centre here, but I don’t know the address of the gentleman. And this is what they did.

So, you see, like they sent, these people, I think, must have concentrated on the Western people. They must have thought that, “Let us get some spirit from the West”. Because only the Western spirits can influence the West, you see, because they required people of their own type. So, they must have contacted some of these horrible spirits and they must have contacts with them.
But the first encounter with this Maheshyogi was in England. Actually, I should say, in a real way. Since I came to know that he was very horrid and all that, I mean we discovered in no time in 1970 only, I told about him. But the real, I mean, the discovering to his ways and all that came to Me because one teacher of Maheshyogi came to see Me. His name was Yuji, he’s from America. He came to see Me and he went to India to see Me first. And then he came to England to see Me. And his parents also came to see Me.

Now, the problem of the victims is they commit suicide and he tried to commit suicide. He tried but he did not. He escaped every time. So, the parents got worried and they brought him to India because somebody told them about Me. Or somebody who might cure all his suicide tendencies, that person told him so he came. Then there, he found out that I was not there so he came to London to see Me.

So, when he came here that time, perhaps I had not even started my work. So early he came down. I had just left India and he didn’t know I was here. So, he came to see Me and he came to my house in Acton. I must tell you this experience was wonderful. So, I asked him, “What do you do?” He said, “I’m a teacher with Maheshyogi”. And I said, “Then why do you commit suicide?”
He said, “Because I don’t know, you know, what happened in the beginning when I was teaching, I felt like killing my parents. So, I tried to throttle my father, throttle my mother”. ‘What’s the matter with you?’ They said. And then I met somebody, a relation of mine and he said that, ‘This is something you can’t understand. If it has anything to do with God, why kill your parents? I mean it’s something funny’.”
He said, “I don’t know, somebody comes and tells me, ‘You’d better kill your parents or something’. Because they are different type, I mean, they give every time new ideas to me”.
So, I said, “All right. Then now, what happened later”. He said, “Later on, I started thinking that it is something wrong. It is better I kill myself. So, I started to kill myself and I did it thrice, I failed and my parents got upset with me. So, somebody told that, ‘This cannot be cured anywhere else, you’d better take to Puna”. He got a trip down there.

So, I told him, “All right”. Now I put a bandhan on him, first of all. And then I said, “All right, what is the mantra he gave you?” He said, “He gave me a mantra, ‘shringa’”. And also ‘Shringa’ was a very big sage in India before Rama’s birth [inaudible] Then we speak because he was a Realized soul and I said, “How can this name can be given to him?” So, I was rather surprised.
So, I gave him a double bandhan, you see, and I myself went into that supraconscious state to find out about the fellow. And he was a horrid looking rakshasa. One of the worse I had never seen is, with one pawn [unsure] he had and two teeth coming out, you see, horrible stuff. So, I said, “What’s the matter? How are you here mister Shringa?” [Laughter]
I said, “How is your name mister Shringa?” You see, it has been on the tape, you see, I taped him. I taped him.
Sahaja Yogi: Shringa?
Shri Mataji: Shringa, mister Shringa, I taped him, you see? The boy was talking to Me, actually, but the Shringa was giving him ideas, you see? I said, “You’d better tell Me. Otherwise you know Me, who I am. I am going to put you right. So, you’d better tell Me all about yourself”.

So, he started telling through that boy. He said, “I’m such and such and I’m a rakshasa and this “. So, I said, “Why are you after this boy?” He said, “No, you see this, we are very few in number with Maheshyogi”. And he also told Me who is Maheshyogi and all that, the kind of a rakshasa he was. He said, “Mother, he is frightened of you and we all know you very well”. And he also said that, “First, we wanted some more devils to come in. So, we wanted to kill the parents. But then he could not kill the parents. So, now we wanted to have his life because we need more spirits than more living people. So, we wanted to use them because really, we need a big army of people”. But I said, “Why? Why you all?” He said he’s meant upon killing because he wants to have more spirits and an army to fight God”. I said, “Really? He thinks he can fight God?” He said, “Now, with big Jivas there, he knows he can fight you better now”. So, I said, “How is he going to fight Me? It’s not easy, I have killed him before. Now, how is he going to fight Me?” He tells Me that he is going to use them as first stages [unsure] to the Yogi. And that’s how I first came to London. Why is he interested in Yogi? This is the fact.
Sahaja Yogini: [Inaudible]
Shri Mataji: Just let me finish, he? A little while. So, I gave, you see, I asked him, you see, that when he came to this centre, he felt very much better. I tight up this fellow, this Shringa, and put him up on one of the Action streets, you see, still hanging now.
[Laughter]

He’s still there, tied up, you see. I said, “You’d better be there”. And since then he [Maheshyogi] is not giving this name much to people, but he tries. He doesn’t know where this Shringa has gone.
All right. But I would say that then, I made him listen to this tape because he [the American boy] would not believe. I gave him the tape. I said, “Take it with you”.

And, you’ll be amazed, he wrote to Me, saying, from there, that, “Mother, I lost the tape on my way, I don’t know where”. How this tape was lost? Very sad. [Unsure]

Because he had to change his plan at New York and went to the hotel and from there, he lost it. Terrible thing [inaudible].
Now, tell Me [inaudible].

Sahaja Yogini: [Inaudible]
Shri Mataji: It’s very easy my child, you see, it’s very easy. Among these supraconscious spirits, there are some who have been doing also the seeking of the Absolute. They are overread pandits. They are people who know all Sanskrit, everything, and through them you can talk all this nonsense, you see? Talking about Absolute is very easy, but raising the Kundalini is the main point. And the Absolute that they have told you is not the Absolute which you’ll find out slowly. Then I will tell you what it is.
But these are the people who read. I’ll tell you, supposing I read about England and tell somebody, “O, this is England and all that”. That’s not real. I should be there. They have not been here. So, when you come back, you see, like my daughters when they came here, you see, they had read lots of things about England. It’s long time back, now England is much better. In 65, they came down. And they were very anxious to come and see England, you see.

When we came it was horrible! All the buildings were black, you know, with smoke. [Shri Mataji is laughing] “It’s all green!” They were so much stupefied and they said, “What is this land? We are going back home. No, no, no, no, no more here, we don’t want it”. And every day used to be a very cold day and all, you see, months used to chatter with cold and they couldn’t go out and anyway they were so tired [Shri Mataji is laughing] of the place. They said, “No, no, no, no, we don’t want to be here”.
So, you see, it’s a different thing to be here and to talk about it. Because, you see, people have written about it, so they talk about it. It’s easy to talk. Supposing somebody reads my, about my book, it’s about what I say. They talk what? [Unsure]. Many who have done like that also-
Sahaja Yogini: [Inaudible]
Shri Mataji: That’s the spirits, you see? Not many here, but there’s a spirit. You see, now, say, I’ll tell you. First experience would be, for example, I am my own. All right? Then I’m worried about my household, about my business, about my things. But “somebody” comes in [inside you] and takes the charge. So, you get the experience of relaxation, “O God, somebody is looking after me”. But when the camel enters in, you see, it spreads [unsure] and will not let you in [unsure] and starts occupying everything and you are out. Then these experiences start getting- you see, these are all experiences of a spirit who is a supraconscious; spirit who is not a supraconscious is different thing. This is also another very subtle thing.

If you are possessed by a subconscious spirit, very gradually you start understanding that they are very sly, and they make you very slothful, you sleep a lot with that. You see, all these things happen with the subconscious ones, you see? And with the supraconscious ones, you become speedy. You become much more speedy than you are, you become dynamic. Because “somebody” is a planner who is dead, he is left with some plans. He comes in your head and gives his plans to you. You may even become successful, may even become successful. But your mind goes out. Gradually when, you see, those people have exhausted themselves, they disappear. And moreover, you see, when you start working out their plans, though it may appear that you are working out better and efficient, in the result, you find that everything is lost. Because it is not with the Divine, the plan is not in tune with the Divine, you see. So, you find every thing is lost like that. So, the- you see, these are the subtleties of the supraconscious spirits. They are very ambitious people, very cunning, very efficient, you see, so-called. I wouldn’t tell them efficient in the real sense, but so-called efficient. Because those who do not know the plan of God are inefficient, you see.

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