Seminar Day 2, Christ The Gate Shri Mataji The Destination

London (England)

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Seminar at Dollis Hill ashram, London (UK). 28 May 1979.

It begins with the direction of spiritual evolution and goes on with many stories from Indian about ‘dedicated women’, Satis and Yatis, Mandodari, Gandhari (Kaurava’s mother), Anasuya, Padmini, Nur Jahan……

« [Shri Mataji seems to be working on a SY] Alright, so now I take all your guilt upon Myself, now you forget it, alright. And I forgive you and I give you all My grace. You see, the one who carries the, guilt is your Ego. Alright ? and if there is no Ego who is going to carry your [ ?… Can you hear Me?] There it is? You see, if the hand has no Ego, the hand is [alright?] Alright then whatever the hand does is My job ? Is My responsibility.[…] Put your right hand on the heart, right. See, the advantage of guilt is this much , is that you correct it, that’s all. But one should not allow it to be a guilt One should… supposing this is the mistake you’ve committed, then if you realize that it’s a mistake then you try and correct it. But if you allow it to become a guilt you’ll never correct it and you will enjoy that guilt even. It’s an indulgence. [tape interrupted]

(…) your spiritual being is all moving in a linear direction in all the sides, you see, and this is the movement is achieved because of […lated?] you have done to yourself, I mean with science we have become nothing but different parts within ourselves, you see. So, like as I always say that you have to have two doctors for one nose, for one side is one doctor. So, but if so, if you have one common point between all of them like we had in India, you see from ancient time is God. God is the centrifugal force, you see, that is what you have to achieve, you see.

So, whatever may be the movement outside you have to go up and up towards God you can say like a pillar it is and on the pillars is, say, you have to come up, reach God. Now, for that, you may go on the left and right but the attention should be on the central path is to, how to rise to God ; and this is the real way a living thing always moves, see : living.

Dead things move in one direction but living things move in all directions. But the central thing, the central nucleus is kept intact. The whole has, whatever is the whole has a connection with the center and from the center the movement starts, you see. You never leave the center and you are always coming back to the center, you see, whatever you achieve on the periphery goes back to the center. And like that, like the amoeba whatever experiences it has goes back to the, is [kept?] back into the center, the nucleus. So nucleus again grows, you see, it becomes, it divides and then it improves and it evolves like that. So, when you move on all the sides and give all that knowledge whatever you have from periphery back to the center, you see, the center then starts evolving, the nucleus starts developing, the chromosomes start [?] , you see, the number of chromosomes increases gradually till you become a human being.

This is the way evolution is which is a living process again, it’s not a process which can be brought out by thinking which is a linear process, you see. Linear process cannot bring forth the evolutionary living growth. That you can see in an ordinary cell or group of cells, whatever it is. If there are group of cells it will have a, some central point, you see. So, all the group of cells will work it out, leave it to the central point, give all good things and the central point will also tell all these, uh, sub-points in every cell and then they will be connected. So, this is the way it works out while linear movement is similar type and only one movement like this, you see it has,uh, all the information and goes on collecting information, collecting information, never reach back. And even if it tries to feed back it again moves in the same direction, does not take, uh, the advantage of the rest of it. You see, this is the way the linear movement is.

In mental, of course, adventures, you see, what you do is to go find out something and then you keep it back, society’s fed back again and then the society also gives you information about that problem and then again you move in this linear way. Also on the social plane also if you see it works out the same way. Societies are grown also the same way, but, what I mean to say, that the plane of mental activity is separated from the social activity. The plane of the social activity is separated from the spiritual activity. So there are different planes, they work on different planes, so the movement is all the time on that plane only and there is no co-relationship between all these things with central path.

Now, when, say, this is, supposing which has to be a living process, so first human beings were born, say, in a country like India. So, they just thought that we are faced with the matter, we have to know what is in the matter, how the matter is to be controlled, [? handled by us], how are we going to overpower it, how are we [?] to use it? So, the first is they have to fix the point because if they move too much they’ll be [drift?] out, you see, and what is the point is the Ishwara, the Supreme Be-ing, that’s what they achieved. Then in that time, in the beginning they did not talk even of Shiva, or many gods, or deities, nothing.

So, this I’m telling in ancient time when the Upanishadas were written, or the Vedas were written. So the first problem to the man was: “ How to handle the elements?” So they started putting God there. Now God must be having His own, uh, deities in the elements. So they started finding out which are the deities of the elements. Because first problem was of the elements. So then they discovered Varuna and they discovered Indra and they discovered all other like for the, uh, Savita for the See and all that.

So, they discovered all the deities that are controlling the elements. In the science this is negated, nobody believe in any deities or… Because they thought if you have to move from God, then, say, supposing if you have to go from the president downward then you have to find out up to the district level also who is the district officer. You see if you move that way. But if you have to move from the other hand that you just go to the [minister?… what will you have? You see, nothing] You’ll have no information that way.

So they thought, first of all we must go to the deities of the elements. So we must excite and we must, uh, invoke the deities. So they sat down to find out what are the mantras by which we can really invoke. So then the Shrutis were improved and Smrutis were improved and they started exciting these mantras.

Now, simultaneously, at the same time, you see, there was also left hand side acting. This is the right hand side acting, as you know the elements are on the right hand side. So left hand activity was there, was also Bhakti. The Bhakti is devotion to God and you must worship God and they, all that was there. So both things were put together. That there is a heart movement also and the brain movement. So they started going to the supra-conscious area, trying to find out about the Sun, about the Moon, now this is what they… Surya Mandala and the Chandra Mandala and all these things they tried to find out, then what is the subtle deities which work out this movement you see.

They went up to the Anu, Parmanu. Anu is an atom, Paramanu is a molecule, they went up to that and by the time it was Rama’s age, you see, the mastery over matter was great. You know Rama went by a plane, a [?] to Ayoddhya and they say that there were 268 [?] in that plane and there were no machines, you see, only the [?] there will move the thing and they had the pilot less bombs in Mahabharata if you read the war in Mahabharata you will be surprised the kind of weapons they had. And [Yuddhas?] is the siege, sieges, you see : how to plan the siege, how to plan a siege that the army cannot get out. Now they were only five Pandavas who had to fight Kauravas who were so many of them. Apart from that they had a big army. So Krishna was very clever. They went to Krishna and both of them said that : “You are equal to both of us, so you cannot take sides.” So He said : “Correct, I cannot take sides, so what should we do?” He said : “ There are… You see, we would like to have Him for him. [?] to help him.” He said : “Now, I can divide Myself in two halves : one is Myself and one is My army. Now whosoever wants Me can have Me and whosoever wants My army can have My army.” So, you see, like fools these Kaurava said : “We’ll now have your army.” while Pandavas said we’ll have you. And He said : “Yes, but one thing : I’m not going to take… And they said the compulsion is that you are not going to take any armor in your hand [?] no weapon nothing. I’m just going to do the chariot’s job for Arjuna.” Imagine.

And that’s how they fought the war. So because Pandavas were blessed by Krishna they had all the Supra-conscious powers with them and that’s how they knew all the Chakra [Bhima?]. Abhimanyu, you see, was a great general expert on Chakra Bhimas and he heard his father telling Draupadi about the Chakra Bhima, you see, when she was pregnant. And he heard that time and remembered, but ultimately it, the end of it. So he failed and he died somehow [?] Young son. Now this Abhimanyu was the son of Arjuna, see.

Now, all this shows that they were very developed people. They had pilot less bombs, they had guided missiles and all that, you see. Even Rama used to send guided missiles. From Lanka He went to, from there He could guide them going up to Ravana to kill him directly. All these weapons.

But simultaneously the left side was also working It’s not only the right side was working. Even on the right side there were many [?] For example, on the side of the men, it was, uh, they were doing these havanas. Now what is this havan normally is, normally is? Is the, is to control all the Grahas, you see, all the planets. Because if you control the planets you can control [?] So all the Navagrahas they will make and worship them. Then all these Surya, Chandra and all these Mandala, all these they would worship and offer them things.

Then fire worship was another thing : to worship fire because if you worship fire you can control fire, you see. And then to worship water also, worship Akasha, all these things are, ether. All the elements are to be worshiped and to get to the, to get to the [?] we can call it. So for example if I want to have the Sun, I don’t have to bother, [I tell the Sun and it is there, you see]. I can ask the rain to stop, I can ask the Sun come in, I can do whatever I please if I want, you see it is very easy because they’re under My command, you see. I just call them, they’re there. But because they were not under your command, so the human beings started working on their sides : means to command the Sun, how to command the Moon. And they did like Parashar muni had the power to control the Sun, he had the power to control the Sun, you see, there’s a story about him Vyasa’s father Parashar muni. But he did not understand everything which he should have understood, it was of move towards the right hand side movement, you see.

Now, this movement started with Yagnya and and all that and the Shrutis and Smrutis, and describing all the Mandalas, how to get [?] the Mandalas and all that. They also went up to this point that they could find out the mines under the earth, you see, in those days, imagine. There were no mines, I mean there were no way of finding out the mines also there was, uh, you see, now you have such instruments to find out all these things but there were no such things to find out. How you can find out the mines? We have so much of gold in our country. From where did they get it? Then how did they fish out the pearls? And they had much more wealth than we have now in that country, you see. And how did they built these big houses? And they created Maya Nagaris and all kinds of things, you know, if you switch on a [?] it will come out, the whole city will come up. If you switch off the whole city will disappear, again it would come up. Means like that they had all these things. If you read the Mahabharata, how these people created, specially Draupadi… [Yogi interrupts : “Is this called Ritambhara PrAgnya?”] Yes, they called as Ritambhara PrAgnya that Pra-gnya. ‘Gnya’ is knowledge, ‘Pra’ is enlightened, you see, this was the Ritambhara PrAgnya by which they discovered all these things and they could master it and they have really masted all this. How?

They had to develop it because there were two types of horrible forces which were going against them. Means one of them is the elements and another was the demonic force, you see. And the generals had realized that, as there are deities, also we can use some horrible, these spirits. So, they had mastered those spirits. Now there are some spirits that they could use like they can bring the [whirlwind?] they can create turmoil. There are some spirits if you know how to control them, they can bring these viruses, you see. This virus infection is nothing but dead, these are the spirits of the dead. See, so, they collected all the dead animals for spirits and then [looked at?] those spirits and then [use?] these spirits. They went to that side and that’s how they [? were mastered] so they had to do something about these things so, uh, they wanted to master the deities which are residing in the elements so that they could [harness?] everything that was disturbing their [?]. So first then this was started. [?…] I said, there were other planes.

On the right hand side also was another one where the wives, you see, the dedicated wives you can say the devoted wives as called as Sat… one are known as Yatis and other as Satis. So, the ones who tried to find out about elements and overpower the elements and all those things, they, they were Yatis and the ones who tried to find out about, uh sought the mast… have the mastery with their will power, you see were the devoted women. They do master the [?elements] as well. Though the devoted women are regarded even higher than Yatis, you know, Satis are higher than Yatis. Uh, Satis are called as, uh, in Sanskrit name is Ucchadas they are much higher than the Yatis so their achievements were much more in dimension because what they have used their bhakti also, because they were dedicated to their husbands. One of them you can give is Ravana’s wife is taken for example, Ravana’s wife. She was so powerful, such a powerful woman She was. Of course She was Mahakali Herself so that should give Her [?…] Mahakali She was Herself, but She was a Sati [as She came?] So She had the Sahaja Asana. She had the Sahaja power, but there are many Satis who achieved Sati power. And this [?]lady, you see this Sati, Mandodari She was Ravana’s wife. Now when She married him she had to marry though She was Mahakali, there’s also a big story. If I go through that story also is very interesting [that She was meeting Rama also] so she was married to him and when Ravana, you see, was fighting Rama, She was the Sati and She was a devotee of Shri Vishnu and She always used to worship Shi Vishnu. So She threw Her [Kankan? *Bracelet of thread used in Pujas*?] very interesting [Aparte] So all these [Kankan?], you know, She threw it in the air. She threw it in the air. And Rama’s arrows were coming and they would return back [around?] because Rama cannot cross beyond the power of a Sati also. He has to respect Her because She was the devotee of Rama first of all, and which you know that Kali is the sister of… Uma is the sister of Vishnu, so you see how can He kill the husband of [yogi interrupts? : His sister] you see all of these points are there. And this Kankana was in the air, is projected. Everything failed, you see, nothing would go, even Sudarchan Chakra would be going backside. So Lakshmana said : “What are you doing? What is it? You are getting back your, here arrows. Why don’t you control your arrows?” He said “[?But you know, see Uma’s there”.. He saw this Mandodari moving there…? He said : “Oh, God, now you have it. Is this not going to work out then? Am I useless then?” Even Lakshmana was sitting very much in frustration. Then Yama, the God of death, he thought: “The time is coming and what is this Kankan doing here… you see, so must try to solve this problem.” So, he is the clever one. He went into the heart of… or he went into the mind of Ravana and told him : “Oh, you are not one of those winning the war. It is your wife’s anger.” And his Ego was challenged. “You see in the air, you the that Kali is there. That is the one that is protecting you.” Very angry : “What does She mean by challenging my manliness? And so he went down to his palace and he saw She was sitting there smiling. She said : “I knew you will come back.” He said : “What do you mean? I cannot fight the war? It is all done by your powers? Will you quickly get back your Kankana…? It’s my order.” So, as a Sati you have to obey the orders of your husband, you see. She said : “alright, I will take back.” You see.

So, but you can find out loopholes, you see. That, that’s the [?] so She said: “Now, I’ve taken back My Kankan.” Then She sat before Vishnu. She said: “How dare you kill My husband? I will not eat food till he comes back here alive, I will not eat.” Now Vishnu had a problem : now what to do He cannot kill, Rama being Vishnu, you see, He cannot kill Ravana. Vishnu said : “What to do?” So He told Lakshmana : “This is a big problem?”. So Lakshmana informed Yama : “ Again see the problem has come : She won’t eat food till Her husband goes back.” So Yama said : “I know it’s very dangerous but I have to try this trick otherwise I’m in for trouble. This man has to die, you see the time has come.” So Yama said with a very big respect, you see to Sati : [“ Why you go fighting also this…?”] He said : “Alright, I will manage it.” He took the form of Ravana himself, he became, he started looking like Ravana. And He went there and He stood up in the [?] He said : “Now, see, I’ve come now.” She said : “Did you win the war”. So He said : “Yes.” He said : “Alright, now, will you eat your food?” And the food was hanging before Her. And She made a mistake there : She ate the food. Before your husband has taken the food you are not supposed to eat your food, that’s why Indian women will never eat it. Because this gives them power, you see. To be a dedicated wife means power. So they do not mind, even if their husbands are bad, even if they are Rakshasas, they’re anything : they will be dedicated to their husbands. They’ll love their husband so that they keep their own powers and by that they save their husbands’ also. So He stood up there [?] : “Eat your food.” As soon as She ate the food, not even She ate the first morcel [Ravana felt cursed?] And the head fell at the feet [?] and then, you know, He, Yama get His own form and She cursed Him that you will be a dog. And He became a dog [Later on He has become?].

So, they are so powerful. But this I’m telling you about someone who was sort of a Sahaja [Samarthya?] [Yogi interrupts about : Which dog was this, Mother? Which dog?…This dog was in the car which… in company of Yuddhishthira…] Of course he was, yes. You see, actually it is uh, after Rama whatever curses and anything were carried on during the time of Krishna. So, you can say His dog, the one who followed Yuddhishthira, you see, Dharmaraja. So, this story tells you about Mandodari who was uh, Kali, Uma, She was Parvati Shakti, so it’s different. But of an ordinary lady Gandhari she was the wife of Dhitarashtra who was a blind man, the father of Kauravas. And this Gandhari tied a cloth on her eyes all her life, she never saw anything because her husband was blind. She said : “If he’s not going to see anything, I’m also no going to see it.” And she worked it out that way. Her eyes became so powerful, very powerful because of that closing of her eyes. Going to that extreme she developed that power of [?Bhamat] dhrishti they call it. This is called as [Bhasmat?] Dhrishti; And there’s another Dhrishti is [Anant?] Dhrishti by which if you see anything that becomes, that cannot be killed. So she called her eldest son who was Duryodhana who was a horrible fellow, who was in the war. She called him, she said : “You’d better become naked. I’ll put my, I’ll open my eyes and put my Dhrishti, means the vision, on you and you will be absolutely Amara, means you will not be… you will be immortal.” And she made him vain, sort of a… he was very much happy about it. But he thought : “I’m such a grown up boy, how can I be naked before my mother fully?” So he said “ I’ll wear a little [?]” so he could face his mother because it is shameful to face your mother like that. So when she opened her eyes, she removed the thing, her eyes came on the body and that part which was covered, you see, did not received her blessing. So he was weak in that part. So when Bhima, you see, killed Duryodhana he knows this trick, he knows that part is weak so what he did he put one foot on his one leg and another leg he opened out because that was the weak point and he made him [?] that’s how he was killed. Otherwise he could not have been killed by anything because that was the weak point he had which [it up?] that’s how he killed him. So these were the power of the devoted wife so this was another plane where they developed power of a devoted wife and a dedicated wife.

Then this power was used also, misused, abused, people did it, but even, you see, this same Gandhari, the one who has done this was a very powerful woman during the time of Krishna. And she told Krishna that you are Vishnumaya, you are the one who is this and you can take birth many a time but the way you have killed all my hundred child of mine, you’ve finished my complete dynasty, no more Kauravas left on this earth means the same way Your dynasty will be finished. He’s of the Yaduwamsha, you see He’s the Yadavas, He was the Yadava. All the Yadavas will be killed and you will be killed in an [?] and Krishna had to accept that curse on His and He was killed in an [?] of, because Sati is the one, is the purest form of devotee to the wife , you see it’s easy – to the husband – easy to be dedicated to God because God is perfect, you see, God is perfect. He gives you love, He gives you this… But a husband gives what? He gives you nothing. He tries your patience all your life. To be dedicated to such a person… gives you a real training in dedication [if you keep on saying…?] you see, like the Gurus, you see, same way, they try the patience of the Bhaktas, you see, they say : “Go ahead, go ahead.” That’s the same principle, based on the same principle as the lady, you see, who worships her husband who is a horrible fellow, like Ravana is. you see. [?] Dhritarashtra, the [?] fellow.

Like there was another one Anasuya was another very great woman in Indian, Anasuya. She was so great She changed, I mean She made the sun wane, she made the river change its course, She did all kinds of things for Her husband who was a horrid fellow. He was absolutely the [?greedi]est possible fellow with all [?] because of [?] all his life, you see. And he would, he cheat her and everything, then he got horrible diseases because all his life he was so [frustrated?] Then he got leprosy, he got this. She took him from one place to another to all the [temples?] and everything and She defied all the nature [?] such a powerful woman She cured Her husband, she got everything done, you see, very powerful woman. And then Narmada, the river, see, that we have, She Herself was the deity. And now She is the – uh, She was actually, uh She never married. When She loved somebody and wanted to marry, you see, She dedicated Herself fully to that love then She became this river, you see, and it’s the Virgin River. So, in India, you see, people do not take out water from that river Narmada; They just say : “Alright, this is the river we are not going to touch, we are not going to take out the water out of this river.” I mean, it was so deep into us, you see, we had known all these things all along. So, the Sati used to be feared very much, you see, I’m also a little afraid of them, the way they are, you see. Oh, as if someone has a husband, you know, who is wanting a divorce from a Sati, I think : “I’m out of it. I’m not for it, you see. Keep Me out. I’m not…” See, they are not to be disturbed. We have examples of them in modern times also very much in India, you see, terrible Satis, like Padmini, a terrible one. Padmini was a very beautiful woman and she was attacked by this King who was… who heard about her beauty and he asked that he should have a [leave?] with her. [Yogi interrupts : This is the one whom he saw…in the mirror?] but then Padmini said : “Otherwise if he’s going to attack all the country, I don’t mind if he can see me in the mirror.” So she can see in the mirror. So he went and saw her in the mirror. Then it became even worse, you see, he said : “I must have her otherwise I’ll have to attack.” So, Padmini said that…

[tape interruption?]

You see they could not understand how can they allow their queen to be passed to other people because this would be the greatest insult, you see, it’s a very different country altogether, the [?] is different not like you allow your queens to be [?] by a king even. What sort of a thing it is? A queen is a queen, he may be king. So they would not allow such a thing, they said : “No, this time we are going to fight it out.” So they sent a word that Padmini is coming with her maids and they all dressed up like ladies, you see, that inside the palanquins and the king stands on the palanquin of the queen, you see, and they had many palanquins, one thousand palanquins. And inside the palanquins stands all these [ladies?] dressed up outside like a Sari they put and inside they’re all armour and everything they put. And the men, four men carried one palanquin, you see. So, the four men were also warriors, all covered with things and they had all the things put inside, all the arms put inside the palanquin and that’s how they walked into the enemy’s camp and they. And they had told these ladies : “If we win, well and good. If we do not win, then we’ll lit a fire at a particular point and they’ll see the fire from the port. Then you have to go on a pyre” It was a common in India to have a fire made and on that a woman would burn herself out, you see, it was a [tapah?] you see. English did not understand [?] the Sati system. They cannot understand, you see, when we believe that that way we get our powers. So they made a pyre, fire a pyre because they would not allow other men to touch their bodies Indian woman does like any men to touch their body unless and until they’re younger than them like children is different but as older person like that they don’t like, you see, that other men should touch them because they think their power will be gone if they have bad lust or anything in their head then that power will be lost, you see.

So, this pyre was made is called as Jauhar, you see, and all the women climb on the pyre because they’ve also – they lost the battle, see, they saw the fire. And the whole thing burned out, you see, nothing was left for the king when he came to the […] But we had a muslim Sati, see, we have [?] Sati [?] and that’s how our country is so great, with these great women who are not only respected but are extremely respectable. Women of great strength [?] now this is the age of they say Nur Jahan. Have you been to Fatehpur Sikri? All of you did not go but some of you did go to Fatehpur. Now, she’s the one who created Fathepur and she was the one who was in love with Salim the son of Akbar. And Akbar although he was a good man, he was a little [?] conscious, I think, so that he wouldn’t allow this [?] sahab to become [Yogi interrupts : She was a dancer?] No, no, no, she was not. She was an ordinary queen… uh, actually, there’s a story about her, how she came from Afghanisthan to India and what happened on the way. She, you see, when uh, she like [?] she was and he saw her there till he fell in love with her because she was so innocent. He had two doves in his hands that he just gave her that : “You just [?] till I’m coming back.” So she was holding the doves and when he comes back he saw that she had only one. “What did you do to another one?” she said : “I didn’t do anything it just flew out.” He said : “How.” Otherwise she [?]it up and the other one also flew out this way.” So he laughed [?] and that’s how he fell in love with her, so innocently it was. But after it came to [?] he said no, no, my son cannot marry [?] But then he wanted to compensate for it so he [?] her to Sher Afkhan another, you see, court [yogi suggests : courtier, c.o.u.r.t.i.e.r] to one of his courtiers and he sent him to their wars [?] so that there is no disturbance with their marriage, you see. But it so happened, you see, when Salim became Jahangir, the one [?] and in the war with Afghans fought against Jahangir and he lost his life. So, you see, this girl developed a feeling against Jahangir, telling things like, she thinks : “He has killed my husband because he wants to have me.” And she came to Delhi, because she had a house there so she went [down to] Delhi and then what happened that he said that : “You must marry.” He forced her marriage she said : “You can marry me if you want but you cannot have me as a wife : you have killed my husband, you cannot have me”. Now, he was the emperor of India that ime and she refused to marry. And she was in love to begin with but once she had a husband she forgot about her love and she was dedicated to her husband. And they are Muslims. Now this girl went, uh. Then after some time what happened then this Salim could not bear this idea that’s she’s here and I cannot marry her and he was so [?] that he developed a terrible disease. And the physicians said that unless and until you marry this girl you won’t be saved. So his mother was in [New Delhi?] Akbar had married Jhodabai. It’s very, you see, our Indian life, name is ‘nanatva’ means is full of varieties and beauties. So this Jodhabai, imagine, Akbar married her and if you go and see, I don’t know if you have seen the Agra’s fort. Did you see Agra fort? Yeah? Alright. Then in Agra they have this fort in which Jodhabai is [lies?died?] there. He made all in Rajput architecture, indian – uh, hindu architecture, you see so that she could come to there. [?] And Jodhabai just thought of a trick, she said : “Now, I must try some trick to save my son.” So she became an ordinary maid servant and she went to her. So, she was the mother Queen, imagine. For her son’s sake she [made?] to this lady and tried to serve her as a maid. She looked after her and gave her love and was very kind to her. So this, she said : “ What can I do for you? What? You ask me anything”. She said : “Will you give me anything I ask?” “Yes,” she said “if it is in my power I will give you.” So, she said : “Alright, I request you to marry my son.” She said : “Alright I will marry your son.” See, she was willing to marry the son of her maid but she would not marry with the emperor. See the character. And then that turned out to be Salim with which she had to marry. Then she married him and she never used to drink, Nur Jahan never drank. But Salim would drink so she made Fathepur Sikri for him and [?]take him to beautiful place, gave him all the pleasures of life and she actually [ ruled the place]. And Salim is known for [fair play?], you see, for justice, he was known for justice. He would not deny justice to anyone, everybody gets [vice, you know, it’s normal?] but he had one vice of drinking. This is the story about modern [?] they say [?]. Maybe in modern time women who are dedicated to their husbands and by that they have powers. So, this was another place they’ve got.

So we have Yatis or you can call them Yogis or people who had such powers that they could just look at somebody and [?] just make them into ashes. We had people of that. But these were destructive powers in a way, you see. But the cunning of Krishna has used many a time these powers to kill the rakshasas. Like there was one yogi, you see, he was sleeping for ages, he was sleeping only, he was enjoying his sleep because he had achieved through, he thought that : “I’ve achieved achieved whatever I wanted.” He was just sleeping like this in a cave, you see. He was in a cave and he was sleeping in a cave all his life, you see. And it was said that the one who will awaken him and the one whom he will see for the first time will be killed. So, this was the thing given to him by Shiva. Shiva had given him this [?], so this boon. So, there was another one rakshasa who was horrid and he had so many boons from Shiva that he had become actually [invulnerable?] and nobody could kill him, you see. And in the war, with, with Krishna, Krishna found it difficult : “How to kill him now because he has been [saved?] by Shiva? Now, what to do?”

So, he thought of this trick, you see, He started running out of the battlefield, so He’s called as ‘ranchordas’, the one who runs away from the battlefield. Ran away from the battlefield, you see, is a ‘ranchordas’. So He ran away from there and He ran up to this cave, you see. There He went and He was wearing a shawl, you see, and He covered this yogi with the, this shawl completely, very carefully He did so that he was not awakened and He hid Himself. Now this fellow followed Him and ran after Him and he also entered into the cave and he saw this was sleeping with the shawl on – Special own methods of Shri Krishna, see? And he saw he’s sleeping now, so he : “Now, I know where you are. This is a, you’ve calm now, you are tired of running and you are sleeping. Now, I see how You are wicked.” [?] and as soon as he pulled the shawl, you see, this fellow got up and saw him. This is of Krishna’s time.

So, but simultaneously as I said other people working out the Bhakti [cult?] was there. People used to have also Bhakti, they used to worship gods and they used to ask to meet them. This was the another type which could not read the Upanishadas and could not recite the Mantras and all [Prakrut?], the people, the general public was doing Bhakti and asking God the help and all that. While the rishis were there who had [empowered?]. Lots of story were there even in the Puranas there are the story of a people who are very great saints, who have got Bhakti, through that they had powers. And there was one story, very beautiful story which is, I would say, in one Purana, can’t remember which Purana it is, that there was a man who had developed lots of powers, you see. He could kill [?] birds looking at the bird, you see. So, he went out and he went in the, he was meditating under a tree and there was a bird who started disturbing. The bird started chirping and he got disturbed and into temper and the bird died, you see. And the bird died, fell down, he was very prowd of killing the bird.. So he went to next village and there he begged for food, you see, from a house you see, so he sort of knocked at the door and the lady came out and he said : “I want some food, you see.” She said : “You see, my husband is not in the house.” It’s a custom now, without the permission of the husband you are not to give alms to, even to any Guru because that’s how Sita was taken away by Ravana, you see. So, she refused, she said : “No, I’m sorry, my husband is not in house I cannot give you food.” So, he looked at her she said : “You cannot kill me the way you killed the bird this morning.” “How does she know?” So he touched her feet, his power was useless. She said : “I know through my Sati powers but the one who is higher than me, you see, is such and such, you go and meet him on such and such date, you see.” He got a shock, you see, he was shocked. He said : “You go and ask for such a name and you will be meeting then.” So he went down to the another village and there, you see, he went and asked where is the [?] he said : “ You have to see him there, you see, that shop. There was a man standing there and he was selling meat and he was cutting all the things there nicely, he was a – uh, what you say – butcher, he was a butcher and he was cutting the meat and he was distributing all full of blood and all that. So, he said : “Are you such and such?” He said : “Yes, so what?” He said “You mean you are the one who is higher than that lady?” He said : “Who told you that?” “The lady has said.” “The lady, did she? Oh! I don’t know about that.” so, he said : “What are your powers?” So he said : “My powers are sahaj.” Now the left side power was of the Bhakti, of dedication and that’s how they developed this Bhakti tattwas but the central power is the proper [?] of [?] which is absolutely suitable for growing…..

[Tape interrupted.]