Talk to Sahaja Yogis Day 1 (transcribed first 17minutes)

Maria’s House, Wellingborough (England)

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Maria’s House. Northampton (UK), 8 June 1979.

(transcribed first 17minutes)

Shri Mataji: You should, because it’s on the supraconscious, the future. He knows from the future, you see the spirits come and tell you. 

Yogi: And he knew things what was going to happen and why those things happening. Will be then able to manipulate [UNCLEAR]

Shri Mataji: You see this is the power of the spirits coming on him, that he doesn’t know. The same spirit [UNCLEAR] bone by bone [UNCLEAR] He doesn’t know what he has done. He is not going to be perfect. All of them how you can say [UNCLEAR]

Yogi: I don’t think he realizes. He lost that realization to realize the possibilities. [UNCLEAR]

Shri Mataji: You see something like this thing goes in your head. The action. That’s the advantage. That’s a very good advantage [UNCLEAR] and then you just don’t get a response, [UNCLEAR] just don’t understand [UNCLEAR].

Yogi: According to the Quran no guru, no teacher can be either be involved in [UNCLEAR]

Shri Mataji: Not being involved. 

Yogis talking

Shri Mataji: Of course not. You see how can be 

Yogis talking

Shri Mataji: You see actually I [UNCLEAR] you get detached in a sense, you become the personality, what a detached personality. They don’t know what faith is. They become famous is a different part. But you don’t know what is famous. Just don’t care, just don’t care. the person who is truthful also understands. But the one who is realized, the one who is going to be the guru or is the guru is the one who just doesn’t care for these things. It doesn’t come into him. I give you an example [UNCLEAR] there was a rich man and his sister was down with cancer, [UNCLEAR] I give you so much money, I’ll buy you an Ashram, [UNCLEAR] He said that my wife is possessed. And she is such and such and if she says, my wife, [UNCLEAR] you see some or other try to [UNCLEAR] Very seriously 

She is [UNCLEAR] they took her to the hospital and got cured.

Very sweet and she was herself [UNCLEAR] She came on a plane. 

Such a [UNCLEAR] a good person, not that Mark was bad, he was also a good person, but some dirty woman must have come in-between and you have such funny ideas you must change your wifes like American people have you must change your fridge, and you must change your this, you must change your wife, change is the sign according to them a sign of [UNCLEAR] whatever it is.

So I think something like that, but it is very serious allegation about her. She was such a fine person. So and then she didn’t talk about and he came to see me and he said: “Mother what do you think about her?” I said, “She is one of the finest American woman I know. She is a very devoted wife, and don’t call any other, has a power on her own and I will not touch her by back you think.”

Mother you think she is not possessed? I said, “Not at all.” [UNCLEAR] What about cancer? I said, She can’t. There’s no possibility. She is a very devoted wife, a very nice person and she loves you. And if you try to have a divorce you will be a very miserable person. Just don’t know. It is not at all for you, as a Mother I am telling you she is my daughter and I am proud of her. His face went down. So I said, you see. [UNCLEAR]

When I went to Chandigarh, Mother you have no pragmatic approach, what pragmatic, he couldn’t understand a word. He said it should be practical, what practical? Why did you say that, how come? Chandigarh. Do you know, if there is an innocent person and if you grant an innocent person like this, let alone me, I would never do that, even if you do that it is a very great sin which you cannot fill up by giving realization to [UNCLEAR]. Now will you do it? After all he is an Indian man, you see, we are going up, I am going up, if she is a woman like that, what Mataji says, [UNCLEAR]. Like that, the whole thing is fizzling down. Doesn’t matter. 

What are we going to do with these buildings? You have to have your own created. Temples are to be built of human beings and not of houses, which are going to crumble down. We have to put living images not things by which people are impressed for time being and then when you die they say that they never take their names. 

Such a person cannot, just you see. Just does not bother. See about fame. What is fame? 

It’s nonsense. What is a fame? What is the thing just tell me? I don’t never understand. What is fame, means what, you see. If it means somebody says, oh you are great, run away from that person. Because you see they maybe wanted something out of you. Normally none of the incarnations got fame. They only got stones and restrictions. None of them got. 

But there is only one way in Sahaja Yoga is that, because you are going to get actualization, you are going to get the experience of it. That’s why in your heart God is there to reside. This is the way. If you call it this way, I accept that.

If that sort of a fame you feel. If you feel now learning from the person. It’s the fame which comes out of auspiciousness. The auspiciousness is a thing we say personality by which you improve in your being, every way, success, not this worldly success, but success that is satisfying, Shri (???) means the grace that is beautifying, such a person is auspicious. Such a person will have a kind of a fame which will be different from [UNCLEAR] styles. The world is going to change. 

They are not going to have Lord Byron for a statue. No they are not. Or Wellington [UNCLEAR] we are going to have something else. Now people want to change, their awareness is going to change completely. They are going to care for people who have that eternal essence in them. They are not going to bother 

Yogi: I think, talking about these false gurus I don’t understand one thing that scene against the holy spirit all the worst  in all the worst [UNCLEAR]

Shri Mataji: It’s very simple to understand. Supposing somebody beats you, you wouldn’t mind, but somebody beats me, will you be able to detain it in your heart? The same way Christ had said, It’s alright if you insult me, but if you insult my Mother [UNCLEAR] force.

There are 11 powers he has got by which he [UNCLEAR] to all such people 

It’s very simple to understand. You are not to insult the Mother of Christ, it’s very dangerous. That’s why he never told anybody that she was the Holy Spirit. She was the Holy Ghost. That’s why she didn’t say it, because that was a protective thing. She was. 

Ask a question


Shri Mataji: Maria are you busy with this whole thing?

Maria: I just finished. 

Shri Mataji: She is so sweet. She is working so hard. Will you please go and help her

Yogi: It’s very logical, I mean. If he is the son and if he is the son of God, then he must be God. I wonder why he couldn’t see that you know. 

Shri Mataji: You see that’s the trouble. They can see somethings which you cannot sees. This is maya. [UNCLEAR] You see something which does not exist. And you do not see that is exists, its illusion. It’s the illusion. If you can get, you see, into that state from where you see the illusion you just enjoy, know the illusion. Ahh Just now as you are laughing at yourself  its nice. [UNCLEAR] isn’t it. It’s a big joke [Shri Mataji laughing] I was also there, 

Yogi: Yes, this is how the whole of maya is, till you got beyond 

Shri Mataji: [UNCLEAR] you see, you are the crucified ones. How to expose them, you see this is the trick of the maya if you understand. [UNCLEAR] See you cannot treat them like that you see, because they have entered into your heads. So now how do I do it? Is to put you there. You go into that. You see them and then get out of it and it would be with a greater force and greater humility from these horrible gurus.

Yogi: [UNCLEAR] said something very funny when we were in September, we were there. He was talking about the story about a Brahmin who had rice. He went to the king’s palace, on his way out he stole some jewelry and they couldn’t understand why he stole the jewelry. Because he was a saint who stole the jewelry. They discovered eventually that the food they have eaten came from the village of thieves. He returned the jewelry.

Shri Mataji: What about him doing that the same?

Yogi: and then he said. He said the story looking at me and afterwards he walked out, because we just 2 hours before discussing this question the money they owe us, what they have done. He said to me as he walked out, “You see. It was any 2 months later he was apologizing for his own deeds? He then said .. the people in this room will gonna bring down the movement. 

Shri Mataji: No no no, [UNCLEAR] Not that day, he was trying to prove, to say these things and all that. Just to show that I know what you are talking about. He is a thief. And certifying, see, I can, the dictionary I don’t understand what to say, I have no words to say what sort of a man he is. He should really get somebody from Lucknow. They will nice abuses which they use for such people. You know what I can write to someone, write about 21 of them to send him back, this is this, this is this, you are. This is the mantra you say about yourself, I am this, I am that. 

You know, I will tell you, I cannot image what sort of a man he is. We had one like that. [UNCLEAR] Once we had a very great swindler, great swindler. His name was Dharampet. [UNCLEAR] but he met Jawaharlal Nehru in America and in these matters our Prime Minister was very nice. He was very fond of people who were properly dressed and very you see English manner and spoke good English and we had all the English. I mean he was Cambridge [UNCLEAR]. They should say superb. So that kind of a thing our families was very much interested.

So this fellow, went and told him that, ‘I am doctor, I am this, English and all, and also our prime minister, they say so, I don’t know, [UNCLEAR] he could officiated [UNCLEAR].

His wife was very good looking woman as they say. I have not seen her. I have seen this horrible fellow and he managed him somehow. And then he went back to India. That time I’m telling you that I am gone to received my husband at the airport. And you know for us they allowed us inside the lounge and we came out. And I saw this man with a big hat. I asked my husband, who is this man? Why do you want to know? I said, but you tell me who is this man. 

He said, why are you so childish? I said ‘I am not childish, I am anxious. So he said, alright I tell you his name. His name is [UNCLEAR]. What is he doing there? 

Why do you want to know about him? Of all the persons why him. I said because [UNCLEAR] Really? Oh God, is he connected with you? He said, ‘Very much’. ‘How’? He is coming for shipping. Then you know what happened this fellow went to Jwala Neru and his wife would have a breakfast with him and she used to order this and that. 

Jwalaji, as I told you, was a very nice person and he never understood that this fellow is [UNCLEAR].

Then he was given from that food, can you imagine, 65 karos of [UNCLEAR]

But my husband as soon as the proposal has came he put on [UNCLEAR] because I was after his life. They transferred him and they gave him a bigger post and they said you can become chairman of the shipping corporation. And they gave him 65 lakhs of Rupees. And the parlament passed a great prime minister. 65 karos, [UNCLEAR] and then he bought ships he cheated all the big ship yards, never paid them any money. He ordered the ships, he talked to the [UNCLEAR] and every time he took to the prime minister there and another minister the deputy prime minister who is nowadays our prime minister the great fellow, the one who brings the English.

He took him there and this fellow, this Desi was the one who was to inaugurate and big this thing and naturally you see the poor people [UNCLEAR] couldn’t say anything. 

Because the prime minister, deputy prime minister coming in, garland him, this that and he is going to launch the ship. They launched the ship and this fellow never gave them the money. The ship was lost permanently, and they had no way occur collectivity. And these are the two great people of our country. Can you imagine, the one who is to be the prime minister and the one who [UNCLEAR] and they gave him 65 crore of Rupees. Now,  this happened and then suddenly the whole thing started to come up just like this you see and then one man he found it out. And he leaked it.

The government, then he leaked it to the police and all that and then my husband was in Japan and he suddenly came. I said, ‘How?’ Then they told him that this man, supposed to have killed his first wife, took her money and then come to India and this and that and that and that and because of this thing started off they found out also about shipping. And these two great giants of our country, what should I call them, you see.

They were saying, you see, ‘don’t have that 

The police is very bad, don’t harass them. They are supporting them, these two. But they were simple. They didn’t take any money from him as such. But then this man was absolutely caught and then he one day just ran away from them to some place in Panama from where you don’t have any extradition. 

The whole thing was hashed out and all those ships were frozen, all these money was frozen, still he managed to take away 4 crore of rupees. 

This best part of it, my husband says very seriously to me , ‘You know the 250 Rupees you have to pay for registration that also that thug did not pay. Even that he did not pay and our great people like Jawala Nehru and Monarchie Bhai [spelling?] are great supporters of him. You shouldn’t feel bad of what has happened. 

[Shri Mataji laughing] 

You see. It is that. And then he was arrested. He came to London [UNCLEAR] he was telling stories after stories. Jawalaji had died by then. You see. [UNCLEAR] Did such a foolish thing. If you see his old age, looks like aged person. 

And then this case started in London. And then he said, another drama he played, he said you see these people are all against Jawalaji, to take bad name. vand the judge was listening to him. He just said, 

‘Now, have you finished? Now I see that you are a crook of the first quarters and you are a thug and you are this and you are that. And now will you shut up!’ That’s what they say.

I said that’s the  [UNCLEAR] 

And he said, ‘You take two running jumps and go to hell!’  These are the words he used. And then he was in jail. He came out of jail and Indira Ghandi came, another great lady behind the prime minister. She saw to it that he goes out of [UNCLEAR]. Now he is out. 

So are we not sufficiently luted? You want more examples?

[Shri Mataji laughing] 

It’s a fact, you see. Imagine people like that. And I would not blame Jawala for this, because he had such a big secretariat with the best, the cream of our country, most intelligent people. All the intelligence of India was behind this and they all did, good faith, the good faith part. And none of them got a single pie.

Hello, how are you? 

Yes yes, very nice children they are. Come along, Come along, Come along, I’ve been just waiting for you to come down here. Come along, come along, sit down, sit down, sit down.

Good, Aha, the force has come. You see the vibrations. Just see the vibrations. All of them, how beautiful, all are realized. Just look at these children. Beautiful they are. Can you remove this and they can sit comfortably. This lady [UNCLEAR] 

Look at the, Maria who are they. 

[Maria talking unclear. ]

Good, you said there will be only 10 people. Maria you said there will be only 10 people 

Maria: Yeah I thought so. 

Shri Mataji: Good. And the great people have come. These are great people. What’s your name? You must tell your name. 

Yogis laughing

What’s your name? See the eyes, sparkling, look at this see beautiful they are, aren’t they. Just put your hands like this, lets see if the cool breeze, alright? Just like this, she is born realized. They speak Hindi. What language they speak?

Yogini: Gujarati. 

Shri Mataji: Gujarati. Thaṇḍī lāgē chē. All of them just see the vibrations. Can you feel that? Tremendous. [UNCLEAR] 

Hello. See that. I mean this is what it is. Can you see, can you feel that? Can you feel the vibrations? Now let’s just see who is great. They do the job for me. I don’t have to say anything. Please put your hands also like this, all of you, just like this. It’s so simple. See that, you feel some cool? In the hand? Yes, cool. 

Are you feeling alright there, all of you? Are you feeling the cool breeze? See are you feeling? See you have to be great people to be the Mother of such great children, they are great children. And they selected you as their Mother. There must be some reason for it. Beautiful. It’s beautiful. 

Open that window, that window is better. You open that one. 

It’s good, from where did you come?  

Oh I didn’t see, [UNCLEAR] that’s another one born realized. 

Are you feeling the cool breeze? 


Good See, have more of it and more of it. Let it go inside, absolutely. 

They got cold, got cold, nice [UNCLEAR]. 

Nice, it’s beautiful. See you already got it in the hand. Why should you worry? So many children are born in this country. 

Are you fine? Better now, feeling better, better now?

The best thing is you must I know the know-how. Otherwise you don’t have to believe in it. Why should you believe anyone who doesn’t tell you the know-how. They call it science. Do you have any knowledge of science about you don’t have to know-how? In Sahaja Yoga even children, everything. Good. [UNCLEAR]

Maria house is blessed many times. Isn’t it. It’s beautiful. Beautiful children. 

Better now. [UNCLEAR]

Why don’t you sit down Bala?

The chair people can go back. You see. Then others can sit in-between. All those who are occupying chairs should go to the back, better idea so that those who sit in front can see. 

Pushed a little bit this side

Hallo, come along. We had a very nice session of great laughter. Something like talking about Charlie Chaplin. 

[Yogis talking]

I think you should put these chairs down or back so that they can see. You are alright, sit. 

[Yogis talking]

They have been having a big laughter. 

[Yogis talking]

Come come come come

[Yogis talking]

Alright. They are never late, can you sit on the ground? 

[Yogis talking]

So all the forum is complete? All of them? [UNCLEAR] They have brought the real force, you see all of them. Yes they have brought [UNCLEAR].

Just sit like this with the hands, follow me. 

[Yogis talking]

Are you feeling the cool breeze? Good. Got it already. See it’s so simple. What about you? 

Just see that. Just see. What about you? Are you feeling the cool breeze? Not yet. You will know if it is there. 

No sort of, you will feel everything. We were just laughing about all the things, how they have cheated all of us, and all that. [Shri Mataji laughing] Oh God, and now we know. Now we have to decide and plan out how [UNCLEAR] all of them. So it’s a plan we have to work it out.


It has to settle down, an experience which needs to be settled down. The Kundalini rises at the first shoot. 

There is no, there is a problem, I would say that, as I have told you before. I couldn’t give realization [UNCLEAR] at all, wether foreigners nor Indians. There is something special about you, that your own Motherland, you see, that power. It is spontaneous, it is very forceful and it does happen. But then it settles back, in a sense it has to look after all the centers and all the problems you are having. So it comes down. Then you start thinking about it, that’s the point where you are at fault. You cannot think about it. You didn’t get it by thinking. This one thing you must know that you did not get it by thinking. You got it because it has to happen. So if you think about it, it will slow down. You cannot think about it. It is love. How can you think about love? It’s not science. Just now if you watch your eye, if you watch yourself. You are beyond thoughts. Most of the time, there is no thought. Why? You done it. 

Are you too close to that? Find it too hot? You can put it off, I think, just a light, is it?

Better? Are you feeling the cool breeze nicely? Good. So lets talk of something nice now. Let’s talk something about the light. We talked about [UNCLEAR] too much. 

[Yogis talking]

What did you say, she has? 

[Yogini talking]

You got Rama’s Mantra. Catch in the right heart, you can also feel it. The catch is on this. This is Rama’s chakra. I will tell you about this. 

[Yogis talking]

So I will have to tell you about ourselves, what are we. Actually we know so little about ourselves. This ignorance is responsible for this kind of a problem that you all have faced, because you are so ignorant about it. And the reason is the knowledge about what I am going to tell you, you can only have when you are a realized soul. Without that one cannot talk about that, one cannot explain it to you. Because it is too fantastic. It’s so fantastic that you cannot believe it and you cannot except it. And that’s why it is not for human mind to conceive it. It goes beyond. If I say that there is God’s Divine power which is the most dynamic power, which is the only power that guides this creation, that coordinates everything, that looks after us, and that has made us human being. You won’t believe it, that there is such a power of love. 

All that you see other things is absolutely false. It’s just a reflection, is not the mirror. And this power has entered into every atom, every molecule and can control all that. We see it every day those things but we take it for granted. Like we see the flowers suddenly becoming the fruits. How would they become? A mango tree will give you mangoes, i won’t give you roses. How does it happen? If you see even in chemistry elements that are created on this earth have a regular planning about it. They are divided in to exactly 8 divisions. Now how all this happens, we never think about it. We take it for granted, we try to find out what we see, what it is, and then we say oh we are great scientists. But you cannot say how it works. Even if you take a sulfur dioxide, an ordinary atom of sulfur dioxide, The sulfur atom is on top and there are two oxigen. If you see it under microscope you can find out that it pulsates. And there is a kind of vibration that is passing between these atoms. And these vibrations are of three types. Unequal, equal, similar all sorts and who does that? And how, why. That certain act like this and certain like this. Even the matter which is a dead thing, which we do not think is capable of having an energy in it. That’s what we used to think. Now of course you have changed your ideas about that. That too has such a beautiful arrangement. Even up to the molecule state, up to the atom state you can see how it is mathematically arranged, the protons and the neutrons around. It is just to see and wondering. 

And when you see it in the nature and these elements there atoms then you see later on when you start watching something much more complex that is a living cell with a carbon coming into it. We just take it for granted. We never bother. From where is this carbon coming and how this carbon combination life came. We just take ourselves also for granted as if we are great kings and that whatever we have got our human life is our own, you see sort of thing. 

And thinking that if we have this human body is our special right to have it. Even this eye of ours, if you see, is such a complex camera, how it works, instantaneously, how it captures. Is something beyond our comprehension. So vindicated [not sure about this word], 

we don’t see, its alright we take it for granted. That’s the way human beings live with it. If you cannot cope with the thing, what we do is to accept it for granted. That’s a sensible thing to do. In the same way nature has made you specially in such a manner that you cannot hear certain frequencies. You can only hear certain frequencies. You are created with such beautiful adaptations, nature and surrounding. This Earth is moving with such a tremendous speed, you do not feel. Spinning around so fast you cannot feel. We take all these for granted and we think we are human beings. But why are you human beings? Why have you become human beings? 

What can you find out, what did you find out so far, whatever you can see, whatever is absolutely fracture that you have found out. You have not been able to find out why these thing happened and how these thing happened. How are you going to find out about such a complex thing that is a human being. You have become a human being without doing anything about it. 

And what are you going to do? For getting that awareness by which you are going to know yourself, nothing, nothing whatsoever. On the contrary effort human beings put, because they have a sense that they can put in effort. But you reach a certain stage later on that you are really working out, you are just sitting down very nicely, the whole thing is working out.

Say for example there is a relay in London about some programs in the TV. Now it’s all in the atmosphere, you don’t see. And suddenly you start your TV you get it. What effort have you put in? It was all build-in there. And it was all, whatever was done on the other hand was also done by somebody. You have just put on the switch and you get pictures, which you do not see normally on the walls nowhere, but suddenly you get them. They are there, exist. But you believe into it, because this you see with your own eyes. It is an actual thing, that’s why you believe into it. And that’s why you must believe into it when it’s an actual thing. So we come to that position where we understand that if anyone talks about higher life, about the power beyond this then we must have actualization of it. We must feel it. At this point there is a problem because it is easy to talk about peace. Like there is a higher life, there is God, and this and his power working and all that. All this lecture you can hear from many people. Even actualization of it you see, they may say that jump like a frog is actualization. Yes we had people like that. 

You know in one of my lectures one gentleman was sitting both his feet towards me. I said, it’s alright for me but I don’t know what is going to happen to this gentleman, you see. Then one of the boys went and said, ‘You are not suppose to sit like this towards Mother’. He said, ‘You see, I am sorry but if I sit in any other form, I cannot sit and start jumping like a frog’. So I said, ‘How do you think that this happens?’ ‘It happens every time and if I do it now it will start, like that.’ So I said, ‘But why this is happen?’ Doesn’t matter, Kundalini has a reason, I am a self-realized person. ‘Who has told you this?’ He took out a big book like that, you wont belief such a big book and he showed me, written down there ‘When Kundalini rises you start jumping like a frog’. Who is this gentleman, this is some Acharia Brahma some sort of a name, such a big name you see and horrible person’s photograph on the thing. Such a big book and this fellow is carrying on his head all the time jumping like a frog. And he says, that yes you have to jump like a frog. 

Why? I asked him. Now when you are going to evolve are you going to become a frog or a monkey, what are you going to be, this is first thing. 

You can use your brains for this to understand what to expect, you see. You are not going to become like monkeys or pigs or even lions. You are already the highest and you have to be something higher. So that will sit out. Then the fellow says, another one, who came to me, and he says, ‘The best was we had one frog warming up [UNCLEAR]

This is David, this is our Sahaja Yogi, very sweet otherwise poor thing. He came yesterday and I said, what happen David, what where you doing like this and why did you do all these things after coming to Sahaja Yoga. He said, there must be some devil on me, on supra conscious level. But he said Mother, he was so subtle, one of the subtlest one you should understand, that he told me, that he was this and this and that you will give me realization.

He came in my ears and told me, can you imagine to that extend it was. And so he believed in that kind of a spirit and he was telling all the time. But I said, for telling you why should you use any spirit? You can read it in Time Out. Use your brains. 

Then we have another one, where we think we can purchase in the market. There are courses [UNCLEAR] three weeks course, three years course for sharing of all your property. So we go in, you see, for that. Then all such things one must understand cannot be anywhere near reality. So what should we expect, what should be the reality. What we call of knowledge of self. 

First science has given a certain thing which we should try to understand. And if you understand through science you can understand that. Science has given us an understanding that there is a power which we cannot comprehend through our rationality. Even a person like Einstein, said, ‘I could not find the theory of relativity in the laboratories. I was tired, i was laying down and I was playing soap bubbles and suddenly the whole theory of relativity dawned upon him. Because he was a realized soul. So it has not come from the [UNCLEAR] these people themselves are saying. So whatever knowledge has come to us, has not come through so-called scientific research but through the grace of some power. Science cannot explain many things. 

For example, the science [Shri Mataji talking to Yogis] 

For example they cannot say why so many things happened in the human body. For example, it is said that any foreign body that enters in the system creates a situation by which the body tries to throw it out. But it’s only the fetus which is retained in the womb, nurtured and looked after and thrown away at the time, when the thing absolutely mature. So there is somebody who thinks about it. 

Then there are two chemicals, chemicals there are adrenalin and [UNCLEAR] which are secreted in our being at different points. And they cannot explain how these ordinary chemicals sometimes augment and constrict and sometimes [UNCLEAR] at different times. They cannot explain it. So they will say, they are honest. They say the mode of action of these chemicals in the human body cannot be explained. 

They behave differently from their own nature, so Baba, from their own nature. There are many such things which I can throw up to you and show you, that man reaches a point a various things that there is something else which takes the decisions. 

Now when you reach that stage, then you start thinking, that through science we feel that there is something that we cannot explain and that rationality cannot take it up there. So there must be some answer to it. The answer comes from psychology. I would say Jung was one of the greatest psychologist ever. The oppose Freud, because Freud you know was a horrible psychologist. He was a fellow, who was treating all kinds of abnormal things. He never treated normal things. So he got possessed by that. And he started behaving abnormal. Himself was a very abnormal person, he had very abnormal relationships, he was really absurd, his own lifetime. And he had a very bad death, he had cancer, he died . But still all of the western world worships him. They never see what he achieved in his own lifetime, what sort of a person he was, what was his relationship with other people and how really he was very anxious always taking pills and he died of terrible cancer and in a very rigid condition he died. 

While Jung, in his old age he got his realization and he was of a very different nature and when he died he used to look, he was looking like a flower. But people do not see all that. They just see what he writes. And because it’s so sad to listen to Freud, I don’t know why it suits them, actually it should not normally. So Mr. Freud has come up. You will find out that this great man has done so many experiment with thousands of people and has established, and has established that there are forces beyond us, which control, and the forces beyond us which control us. 

He called them as universal unconscious. Unconscious because they are not in our conscious mind. And he called them as, also as. You see actually he did not know how to name it so he said that, he has said it, it is the Mother’s force, it is a motherly force. Very clearly he said that. And he studied also Indian literature and all that and he has developed some thought on Shakti path also. He has used the word Shakti for the universal unconscious. 

But still he was just a realized soul. There was no mother to tell him all about it what it was. So he couldn’t indicate and tell you that there is a universal unconscious which is guiding you. He experimented with people with their dreams. There is a very famous dream, which he interpreted, about a man who would always dreams that he has to  bow to his son. His son is sitting on a pedestal and he has to bow to his son. The son might be a realized soul. So he came to him and he said ‘I don’t know why I get such a dream.’ So Jung asked, ‘what is your relationship with your son?’ He said, ‘Very very bad’. I say, ‘Why’ ‘You see his mother is dead and I married again and my wife is very angry with him and I really don’t know how to manage it. The relationship has gone very bad.’ He said, ‘The unconscious is telling you that you must bow to him. He is of a higher awareness, so you must bow to him. It is giving you a balance.’

There was another girl who came to him with a dream, just putting two dreams together I am telling you, he said that, ‘I see my mother as a witch’. So he asked the girl, ‘What is your relationship with your mother?’ She said, ‘It’s very fine, very good. She actually pampers me, she has pampered me so much that I am jeers good for nothing.’ ‘That is the thing coming to you from your unconscious to suggest that your mother is a witch who is spoiling you. 

And there are 1001 like that, you see there are so many volumes of books which you can read for yourself. So the psychologist said to us that the state of human awareness that it will reach to a point where it will be thoughtlessly aware. He will be aware, but there won’t be any thought. This is said by Jung who was a psychologist. So we should know what we have to expect. 

Now there’s another source which is very clear and very very [UNCLEAR] which we can understand are the scriptures. If you read John’s Revelation you can read about [UNCLEAR]. You will know that the cool breeze is to be expected, if you read Adi Shankaracharya because he is the one who has completely exposed the whole thing in the 6th century [ie 600s]. This knowledge was a secret knowledge before that. 

Because the evolutionary forces have not taken its proper course. It was kept as secret knowledge, a guarded knowledge, for very few. Only in the 6th century [ie 600s] he started exposing it and Kabira and Nanaka, all these people came out full exposition of Kundalini.

The greatest work on Kundalini was in Maharashtra, where Nath, the 9 Nathas, the primordial masters they call themselves, worked out and also in other places, they also came from Punjab. There was a big report Punjab and Maharashtra and they went into the forest, meditated and religiously tried to find out the works of the Kundalini, what was the force, what was the secret within us, what was the germinating force that is going to give us this. Because only one or two were realized, whenever they talked about realization, nobody could believe them and they couldn’t understand. There is a force like that and they said, Oh we are happy with ourselves. 

Moreover the people who were realized, had such bad experiences of all these people, like they were beaten up, crucified, they were poisoned, I mean imagine the people. What was there to crucify Christ. I still can’t understand. So the very sensible people of this world looked at all the explanation about God and Divinity with that kind of a hostile attitude. And there was no way of changing this attitude of these people. And this hostility was expressed even by religious organization. You see, anybody who was a realized soul was thrown away from the churches, from temples, these brahmins killed them, they tortured them, the last one that we had was Shirdi Sai Nath. And if you see how the brahmins from another area from [UNCLEAR] how they tortured him you would be surprised. Not only that, they brought a snake charmer with a snake to kill and he got hold of the snake and talked to the snake, you see snake went away and bit charmer. Then he was the one who got up and saved the charmer. And he told him, don’t do all these things. He said, I would not but these people brahmins have given me. 

So the people who were supposed to be in charge of religion themselves crucified those saints who talked of reality. That’s how reality was completely blinded. Nobody could see it and people were get.

This was the problem and that’s why somebody had to come and do this to give en-Masse realization to people. So that it becomes a common knowledge. Everything that is discovered by one person has to become the common knowledge otherwise it has no meaning. Even in the science you see, you find out about Electricity, it has a big mystery behind it, whatever it is but at a point is has to become a common knowledge. If it is not a common knowledge it is never accepted and it has no value at all. It has to become a knowledge of every human being otherwise it has no meaning. 

And the time has come fo you to have the actualization and to have the complete knowledge of your being. What you are, what you are going to be, what you could have been, what are the problems around. So in us is placed a germinating force. We are all built in, its like a computer, absolutely living computer within us is placed through our evolution, one by one, step by step. All these points have been properly put down in our backbone, in our brain and in the limbic area here, absolutely [UNCLEAR] and only thing one has to do is to surrender to accept it. But we surrender to all kinds of nonsensical things, but to the right person our Ego will immediately stand out, you see.

If somebody has two hearts it is very easy to surrender. Or if somebody is very cunning very easy to surrender. But where do you surrender, is to the Divine force, to yourself, to your wisdom. What do you surrender is your nonsensical idiotic Ego. What do you have to surrender to God, what do have, only this known knowledge which has come to you through Ego and sometimes through these possessions which is supra conscious. 


Now for surrendering people think, how can I surrender. Now you cannot think about it, how should I surrender. Can you work it out on a paper, I will do this x + x = so much. It’s very simple, how do you love. Do you sit down and make a picture, now I’m going to love my child, so I will make a lap with this much angle and this much angle and the baby there at this angle, look at her with this angle, then I turn left right, then again I put the child this side. Do you do like that? 

You know how to love, don’t you? It’s built in. Surrendering is nothing but the love of God that is within you. He is within you in your heart. He is there. All the scriptures have said that and none of them are wrong or false. They might have listened to [UNCLEAR] somewhere, everybody has to play tricks. Our tantricas in India, all of these who are nowadays gurus were tantricas once upon a time, in the 6th century. They entered into all kinds of things. And the worst thing they entered into are the Vedas themselves, you see, where they declare that even I think, like Ashwamedhya [name needs to be checked] which is a very pure thing is also disoriented from sex. 

Even they said that the God and the Goddess, the God and His power are sex relationships. Actually they think that human beings are nothing but sex points. They have nothing else in them. Even an ameba has something more than that. But we accept them. Why? Because we are seekers. We are simple. And we are seeking, we are born in this world to seek. We have taken our birth specially at this time so seek. We have been seekers all our lives and today we want to seek. And how are we going to seek? Wherever we get a chance we had to. I know it is hard to understand it, you don’t have to do anything, just sit right. The boat is moving and it will take you to the other end. You don’t have to do anything. 

It was going to work out, this is how it has to mature. Now the flowers are there, they attract the bees, the bees come at the right time, they blossom at the right time and also the fruits appear at the right time. It has to mature. It has to take its own course and time. The way you are built in, you are made it has to complete itself, so the another round starts. And that’s why this [UNCLEAR] has blossomed today. That’s all, nothing more than that. It is very easy to correct. There is no problem about it. It’s very easy, because once you have [UNCLEAR] you start seeing everything very very clear, because there is no light it becomes so difficult. Have you tried climbing up steps without lights in any new house which you have not been? Three times you fall down before you get over one, like that. But if there is light, whatever type of the house ready, wherever you have been, you can just go up. Just like that. In the same way, unless and until you are enlightened, unless and until you are realized, unless and until you have that power poured into you, you cannot understand and you cannot see that how simple it is. And you are so beautifully built in your previous searches, that once you get this awakening within you, you start awakening others. Immediately and you can start it also [UNCLEAR]. But you see just now it’s such a powerful thing, that most of them have got it, so I don’t know where [UNCLEAR]. Most of them have got it. Sometimes it happens like that, whom are we going to raise now, Mother everybody is realized. 

[Shri Mataji laughing and Yogis talking]

She’s got it too. You see that’s the problem. That it is [UNCLEAR]  but you will find that it will settle down again. It has to go back because we have got chakras within us, the centers, which are being exhausted. That I would say, now this side is the left side and this side is the right side. And both sides are the sympathetic nervous system. Right side sympathetic nervous system works for your mental being and for your emotional being, mental being and for your physical being, the left side for your emotional being. In-between is the central path, is the para sys. Now the underline subtle energies that control these two, left and right, the left one is controlled by the power which we call as Mahakali swarupa, which is, when the hrim and the kleem. The hrim is the central power, ra is energy, hrim is the one which gives you evolutionary powers and also sustenance. Like carbon had its own sustenance, and gold has its own sustenance, as you have your own sustenance. Everybody has the sustenance through this central power of hrim, is the power of Mahalakshmi. And the right hand-side power is the power of Mahasaraswati. 

Now you shouldn’t get upset, it resides within. It has nothing with any particular community or anything, because these were found out by Saints who were meditating in India and they read Sanskrit language. That’s why they are Sadhus. Moreover these days also science has developed here, but also in India a kind of a science [UNCLEAR] and the science that was developed in India was the science of Kudalini, is the force of the germinating power, the residual power within us. And this science has seen or has actually experiment with the movement of the Kundalini when it moves, the sounds take place. And these sounds are different on different centers within us, which are seven basics, but there are 11 otherwise and there are three 

[Shri Mataji talking with Yogi]

350, this is the thing, 350 million, but [UNCLEAR] only with seven [UNCLEAR]. Not more than that. It’s too much of ending. Why should you [UNCLEAR]. We need not worry, now you are sitting [UNCLEAR], it’s perfectly alright. Why should you worry from where this electricity has come. And from how much of drops it must have taken to create this much of electricity. Is it from the water or from the coal or what is the history, whose bother. You just put on the light and enjoying. They are ready for you. It’s all done. In this also you must take it for granted that it’s all done for you and you have every right to happened. 

So this Kundalini, when it passes through all these various chakras it makes a sound. And that sound has been taken by those people in the ancient days as the phonetics, phonetic sounds for forming the Sanskrit language. That’s why Sanskrit is used for controlling the Kundalini, the movement of the Kundalini. And the centers that are within you have got a mark, a land mark of your evolution.  For example, the leaders who came at different stages of your evolution where actually the incarnations of Divine power and they have left a mark within you and they exist within you at that particular center. So when you say a particular mantra that deity opens out and starts emitting energy. But still human being without realization is a limited energy. These deities have limited energies. But if he is put in connection with the All-pervading power through realization, then these deities are also [UNCLEAR]. Like if you have a car and you [UNCLEAR] petrol and the petrol shop is there, then you put the car into tension and you know what to do. But supposing there is a permanent pipe on the cap of the patrol tank, which is filling is permanently then you don’t have tensions. You are not bothered what is exhaustion. Now this exhaustion on all the centers, because these are the underlying forces of all the plexuses that we have outside. When they get exhausted, plexuses that are active in our body, our mind, our thinking, our emotional activities, all of them get exhausted and then we develop diseases of various types. Physical, mental, emotional.

So to make these centers awakened is a very important thing even from a day to day life stand point, like you must fill them up, you must awaken them so that at least your health is alright, your wealth is alright, you mind is alright, and also your emotions are alright. This is the basis. 

But ultimately what do you get? Ultimately you get that connection which is all the time [UNCLEAR]. Not only that much like unless and until you get this connected to the main you cannot work it out. Maybe very nicely made what to do then. So the first thing is put it to the mains. When you put it to the mains then only you will realize where is the problem. Otherwise you will not know. But when you get your self realization you know your problems. [UNCLEAR] That is self realization, you know your centers how they are effected, where they are effected, what is the problem there and you get the power to cure.

Of course thoughtless awareness is there, no doubt but plus that immediately. A person who Kundalini has crossed Agnya, only Agnya, may not even get realization can cure others.  That’s how are are have half baked curing people. Mostly then they get possessed and they get spiritualists, you see. Their Kundalini only rises up to Agnya and some spirit comes into and he becomes spiritualist. But you people even if it crosses Agnya immediately you can start curing. When it crosses Sahasrara this point, the last point, then you enter into that area or into that subtle awareness which is all pervading. 

Just now we think that you are different, she is different, she is different, but there’s a thread passing through. If your attention becomes that thread then you can pass into anyone. That’s how you know yourself, you know your problems, everything, you also know ours, immediately. That is what is the collective consciousness about which Jung also has integrated. So you have to expect collective consciousness that is, is an actualization. That is that you are consciousness, your awareness  get’s that dimension in actual form, that you become. To explain it I will tell you. 

Like animals walking through dirt and filth they never feel any dirt of filth. They cannot see beauty. But we can. We cannot walk through dirt and filth, our awareness is very different from that of animals. In the same way when you become this then your awareness becomes so beautiful, that you start feeling the sin. You start feeling the wrong. I don’t have to tell you, you may not just do it. I don’t have to tell you. Automatically you started feeling what is good for you and what is bad. Say our [UNCLEAR] has not come. I never tell you don’t drink , you know I don’t, you go ahead, have cancer and have everything nicely, then comfortably, have your liver absolutely shattered, you are a drunken fellow, then live comfortably. Alright doesn’t matter. Then the realization takes place, immediately the priorities change within you. Absolutely. Will be amazed I have seen people who have been terrible drunkards, you see. They said, Mother we can’t help it. I said, what happened? We vomit. Same thing happened with Rustom. He started vomiting and he couldn’t take, you see, anger. 

Then you just enjoy something else, because if you get the nectar of life then you don’t run after frivolous things, useless thing. Your dignity becomes different. You become different. It’s entirely different. Your sense of enjoyment is so different. You become really beautiful flowers and the fragrance people can see from a distance, even from a telephone. It’s so dynamic. And that is what it should happen. For that what should we do? You can say, Mother what should we do? Nothing, just ask. You have to ask me and knock. That’s all. Even if you do not knock your Mother is going to knock at your doors. She is very persuasive, she will come to your house. Make you comfortable, she will massage your body, she will massage your head, she will massage your back, work on you and she see to it that she takes you out. She has too much patience. And you will be amazed, that if I am tired I feel better 17:13