This is not the work of mediocres

Doctor Johnson House, Birmingham (England)

1979-06-16 Program At Dr Johnson's House Birmingham NITL HD, 43' Download subtitles: EN (1)View subtitles:
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“This is not the work of mediocres”, Public programme, Dr. Johnson house, Birmingham (UK), 16 June 1979.

I am really sorry we got here, reached here, on a train that was late. Things have to be done according to the timings of the Divine, you cannot plan out your own things. And that’s how sometimes one has to be later and sometimes one has to be earlier.

But one thing is definite: the time has come for the final happening of your being. This being has been passing through various phases of life. You know that, that you have been a small little amoeba and then a fish, a reptile, and that’s how the evolution went on till you are today, here, sitting as a human being.

All this has happened to you without your knowledge, without your deliberations. And you have taken for granted that you are a human being and all the rights as a human being are your own. In the same way you have a right to be something more than what you are, because even today you do not know what is your purpose, why all this effort was put in to create you?

What is the meaning of this life? Is it pointless? Just you were created for nothing at all, for thousands of years? In such a manner that so many things were discarded, so many shapes were discarded, so many forms were discarded, and then gradually, one by one, they started disappearing from this Earth. Ultimately we find there are so many human beings now on this Earth that it is not easy to explain how, in this short time, you were created and so many were created.

Whether you believe it or not, but there is a Source, there is a Controlling Power, which does that. The human beings themselves have been talking about God, have been writing about God – themselves. Of course, they were hedged by incarnations who led them do this kind of a decision, no doubt. But still, animals do not think of God, they cannot think of anything abstract.

So there is an awakening within every human being that we are not complete and there is something of the beyond.

Now, if I say that, just now, “[What] we know about this Universe through our senses is just a dream,” it’s a fact. Is just a dream. You are not going to believe me that this is all a dream when you can see it very clearly. But don’t we see everything in the dreams clearly? In the dream are we not related to all the things that they create, in the same manner as it exists today? So when I say that you have to be awakened out of this dream and jump into that awareness, which is complete awakening, you might say that, “Is it going to be from one dream to another dream and from this dream to another dream?” How is it am I going to prove that even that awakening which is beyond you? You start feeling the vibrations as you must have heard about it. Then how are you to believe that even those vibrations that you feel and the Supreme Power you feel, the All-pervading Collective Consciousness you feel within yourself, is also [not] another dream and you have to be awakened beyond that?

I would like anyone of the Sahaj Yogis to answer this question if possible. Can you tell me that? You see, ours is a, you see, a type of a proof. I would like to know if any Sahaj Yogis can say definitely that the dream, that you have come out of it now, because you are feeling the vibrations, and you are feeling the Collective Consciousness within you, yourself, is also not another dream. I want you to think about it. Can anyone give an explanation? Can anyone think of an explanation that [proves that] even that All-pervading Power you are feeling is not a dream?

Sahaj Yogi: The dream doesn’t change.

Shri Mataji: Beg your pardon.

Sahaj Yogi: The dream doesn’t change.

Shri Mataji: But how can you say? [If] you are still in a dream, then how will you say whether it will change or not? How can you say definitely that it is not going to change?

You see, because I find lots of intellectuals sitting here so I want to give you a little bit. Why should you believe me also? You should be open about it and you should find out [if] I am taking you from dreams to dream and again to another dream.

Bala let’s have you, you’re a very clever boy! I mean, we have intellectuals. Today only I told Gavin, that I’ll ask you a question. How do you say that these vibrations that are there, you are not dreaming about them?

Maria Laventz : If they are there how can we dream about them?

Shri Mataji: Beg your pardon?

Maria Laventz: If they are there how can we dream about them?

Shri Mataji: You see, but may be that, in this case they are there because you are in another dream state, the third one!

Maria Laventz: This is my personal opinion that this dream for me, it is one that has come true.

Shri Mataji: True, but what do you say that for the next dream, what about the next dream? Maybe something else would be there.

Sahaj Yogi: We can test that by vibrations.

Shri Mataji: But even vibrations could be dream! You see, you just think about it. Why am I saying [is so] that you don’t just accept me as I am saying it, keep your mind on the alert.

Sahaj Yogi: We don’t think.

Shri Mataji: You don’t think about it. Why not? You can also think about it and this is the point. The point is not that you don’t think about it, but, that in the dream whatever you have, now you have come to the state of consciousness where you are just conscious. Then whatever you have in this conscious stage cannot be used in your dream; you cannot relate it to your dream. But when you get realised then you can use that finding – in Sanskrit it’s called as upalabdi (उपलब्धि : observation) – to solve the problems of this dream. You see? That is why that is not a dream.

Whatever creates the dream is ignorance. You can face it by the findings of Sahaj Yog. Every minute you can face it as people here.

So, it should not be a criteria that I do not take any money from you, so you just believe me. No! You should not believe on this point. But the thing is, if your dream, that is today’s conscious mind, where we are in the centre in the conscious mind, when this conscious mind receives super-consciousness, then that consciousness can be used to solve the problems of this dream. And this is why we have to know that, whatever you achieve through Sahaj Yoga, breaks all the dreams.

Later on you can even use it for the dream itself, because you will start absolute state and you have that absolute awareness which we call as chaitanya lahari – is the vibrations – by which you can judge everything: the dream that was there, sushupti (सुषुप्ति – deep sleep) as they call it – and this conscious time, and also the future that is God, and His ways. All these things can be felt through these vibrations.

The obstructions which come your way not to feel, we call them as baddha (बद्ध – obstruction). Obstructions are called as ‘baddha’: means ‘by which we cannot feel them fully’. Maybe the instrument is not alright, maybe there is something wrong. But the feelings that you get of these vibrations are not clear-cut in your mind and there is a vikalpa. ‘Vikalpa’ means a ‘doubt’. The doubt is there because your feelings are not correct yet. There is a vicious circle on this point. Even when you do get your vibrations, then the doubt are there, because your feelings are not yet all right.

So when you feel the vibrations perfectly well you can be doubtless. It’s a vicious circle. Because of the doubts you do not feel the vibrations, and because there are no vibrations, you are in doubts. This is the point, even after Realisation [that] one has to know beforehand, because we have had experiences that people came to my programme, they got Realisation and then went off, they would never come back. The reason for that is, this time is very important and that is the time when your capacity to achieve it, is tested.

Realisation people get it, vibrations they do get, but your capacity to be steady into that state is only possible if you, yourself, you are determined to get it.

Otherwise you are again thrown into the same dream. Like if you are getting drowned and somebody tries to save you, brings you on the boat, but still you are not sure whether you are in the boat or sinking in, and slip down back again. Again he puts you back. Again, you slip down. And the thing goes on. But if you could stick on to the boat with a little determination it helps much more. Because that is how you are going to know your meaning of life.

Because of this little problem I have seen, in Sahaj Yoga, we get people who are excellent people. This is not the work of ordinary people, of mediocres. There is a saying in Marathi language (of Saint Tukaram), “Yerya gabalyatze kaama no he” “It’s not for the lousy to come into this.”

So this is a point where you have to achieve that, and that point is very important. Why I have today started with it [is] because I have seen many a times [that] all the efforts sometimes are lost just like that.

Now it is there within you, all these chakras that are shown here. Would you like me to tell you the names of these chakras here?

Now this chakra is the first chakra of the centre within us, which is in the subtle form we do not know about, but we know about it in the gross form, again in the dreamland, you can say. The gross form is called as the pelvic plexus, but it is manifested by this subtle chakra known as Mooladhara.

This is a very, very important chakra within us, because that is how we started having life. We can say carbon was introduced in life, within us. Without carbon you cannot form life. And so this is the chakra where, this is the state where we really became living beings: the life pulsated in us, and that is how it is demarcated. It also represents all the matter that we have been, because carbon stands in the centre of the periodic table, as you understand it. And that is the highest evolved element because, when carbon was introduced then only we started pulsating as living beings. But it has nothing to do with Kundalini.

So all the living things are at this level now, but while you have a higher position, all [of] you, built in you, though they also have the capacity to have all these. So the human history starts straight from here, is the base, that’s why it is called as ‘Mooladhara’ chakra – [meaning] the base of the root, the base of the root.

Now which is the root is this one (the Kundalini). This one is the germinating force within you by which you evolve to a higher state. And this is placed within your triangular bone which you can see with your naked eyes, you may be able to see the Kundalini there. It exists. But if you tell a doctor he won’t believe you. I was myself a student of medicine and I would say “Now, how to talk to these people? It’s better to learn their language so that you can talk to them.” It exists there and many of the people who are here have seen this pulsating in them. This one.

And this Kundalini is the force, which is kept there, residual force, which is kept there for your rebirth, as they call it. The Brahmin is called as a dweejaha means the one who is born again, reborn. As Christ himself has said, that you have to be twice born. Like an egg of a hen, we are born, living in this dream and in the cocoon of your own being. When you are ready, the Mother can pierce onto the head of the cocoon and can bring you out. Though the transformation has been done by you, within yourself, without feeling it, through the Divine Force. And I feel today is the time [when] you are just ripe for hatching, as they say.

The blossom time has come. The time of transformation has come. And thousands have to be transformed. You have to know the meaning of your life because you were created for a purpose – from amoeba to this stage you were brought – and now the One who has created you, the One who has given you all the beauties and the bounties of this Universe, wants you to know Him and enjoy all the bounties, like the Father bestowing properties, all His enjoyments on this Earth, out of His love. It’s the manifestation of His love that has brought us to this state, and His love only is going to give you that status by which you are going to be enthroned into the Kingdom of God. Instead, I know people have been harmed much more.

It’s very, very simple proposition, which is difficult for human beings to understand, that this was desired as a father desires for his son. Even when he is not yet a father, he thinks of a son: how he is going to bring him up and how he is going to bestow all his love and all he is earnings on that child. In the same manner, the Great Father has planned the whole thing in such a beautiful manner and He is going to look after His own Creation. No one can destroy it. He’s Almighty. Only thing is that you may destroy yourself, because He has made you free. He has given you freedom. He has treated you as a friend. Because if you have to be enthroned, you have to be a free person and you must know how to enjoy the glory of freedom.

In that freedom if you have chosen something wrong then you cannot blame God for that. But even if it is just a mistake then He will work it out with a thousand fold of His grace and mercies to see you, that you are saved. He’s going to use all His powers to see that you receive that beauty that is promised. That is what is Sahaj Yoga.

‘Sahaj’ means ‘spontaneous’. Perhaps we do not understand the full meaning of ‘spontaneous’, because ‘spontaneous’ itself is an abstract word to understand. It’s just His spontaneous power that works it out. He is spontaneity itself, and His powers are spontaneous, His love is spontaneous.

You can see in every way how nature spontaneously does thousands of things which we cannot answer, neither can we understand it, nor can we appreciate it. Like a little flower becoming a fruit. We just take it for granted. If there are flowers, all right, take it, they are there. If there are fruits, we eat them. In the same way we have taken for granted everything and we have taken for granted Sahaj Yoga also. It’s going to work out, it’s going to be within you, and all of you are going to get it.

In this centre, the second centre, which you see, is this centre first, because this is the centre, which is called as the Manipur centre; which controls our navel organs or, we can call them, as the solar plexus. There is the solar plexus which controls all the organs in the stomach, all the viscera. And this centre [Swadishthan] actually comes out of this centre. It’s an additional centre of this, which revolves around this area and looks after organs that are inside the stomach.

As God has made you in His own image, you can see that this is the place where God has created this Universe: where the stars and all the galaxies are created. And then the Earth is created down here, and we have a sun and a moon.

But in our being itself also, we have got all these centres placed within us.

This is the star of Jupiter you can say. All of them have also stars which are like push buttons. All these big stars, are ‘push buttons’ in the viscera or in the stomach, abdomen, of God Almighty. In the same way, we too have got this centre which is very important.

If you can see here that it is surrounded by this water element, and this centre is meant for your seeking. So, first the life started existing in this water and the seeking started. The seeking started because we have [an] in-born, built-in, sense of seeking. Amoeba seeks the food. Animals seek also food, and also the things like protection. It learns how to protect itself. But the human being seeks the meaning of his being.

This seeking beyond is our subject  today.

This side is, this blue line (Ida Nadi) that is shown within you, is the line of your existence, which manifests your left side sympathetic nervous system. And the line, other line, that is showing here, is the line of your creativity (Pingala Nadi), of your physical being, which is represented by, or manifested by your right side sympathetic nervous system.

In the centre [channel] is the seeking. And you see that there is a void, there is a void in between. You do not know how to approach from here. Human beings have this centre as very important, because after a point of protection animals rise, they learned methods how to protect themselves.

But this is a point (Vishuddhi), which is very important, where human beings have raised their heads up. This centre is a very, very vital centre because that is the point where human beings have accepted their responsibilities. They have accepted the situation that they are something: this I-ness started with this centre.

Because at this centre – as it is shown in the figure it is slightly wrong because that is connected on both the sides – at this centre, when the human beings start using these two powers within them, of one of existence and another of creativity – or we can say the emotional, mental and physical powers – they release, from their being, fumes of tensions. And these two fumes as we have shown there, go into the brain and form on this side the superego and that side as the ego.

Now how superego is formed and how ego is formed and what it is, I’ll tell you in short.

As in a factory, when there is activity, you see the fumes coming out, in the same way, when we have our emotional activity or our physical, mental activity, the fumes, which represent all the activities of that shadow, are accumulated in these two balloon-like structures. These two balloon-like structures, when they meet,  then a human being is separated from the mains. Animals are not separated. Only human beings are separated. They have [been] given that freedom.

When they are born, in the fontanel area as you can see in childhood, is very, very soft. And you can see the pulsation through which the power flows into the limbic area. But when a child grows and his two activities grow just like that, there’s calcification of that bone and you find that the head here becomes hard. That’s why sometimes people say “hard nuts.” This hard nut is the place where this Kundalini has to pierce. She has to rise from her seat, go upward and pierce that fontanel area. Which we all know is called as baptism. This was the baptism that John the Baptist said, not that you get baptists from some theological college or from some training or some sort of a clownish looking people. They cannot do it. They may dress up like clowns and say, “All right I baptise you.” It’s absurd! What is their authority to do such things? And that’s how when, in the modern times you feel, if you ask people, “Do you believe in God?” “No!” “Why?” “Because our clergyman is like that.” But the church should not assume that they are representing God.

In the same manner, in every religion, the so-called Hinduism, which you think is something very great and people have exploited you, is even filthier and much worse than Christianity could be any time.

This sort of exploitation is one of the greatest hurdles in your getting the Realisation. Many times the seekers – the innocent seekers who are seeking – they don’t find it in church, so they go to an Indian temple where they may purchase some ganja and end up in some swimming pool or something like that. That is one of the greatest hurdles, I say, today, that the way the innocence of the seekers is being exploited by people who think that they can make money. They are not worried about their own seeking [so] how can they respect your seeking? Or [they get] some sort of a fraudulent or you can say sadistic happiness out of it.

This centre, the whole of this centre, which is supported by your sustenance, is disturbed by this. Here a human sustenance is retained and created and looked after. And there are great incarnations who come on Earth to teach us that this is the sustenance you should adhere to. But there are also horrible, wicked, evil geniuses who come on this Earth. They come in this area and they disturb your sustenance. That is, as I said, the greatest problem that is facing me.

Actually, it would be something like a beautiful garden I come to, and I find beautiful flowers around and I’m just coming and here I find the flowers mutilated for the selfish ends of the absolutely depraved and low type of human beings. They should have horns actually and tails; that is how depraved they are. Even animals with horns are thousand times better. They want to retard your progress. And that is how we find today the situation is, at the blossom time, that all the flowers have been destroyed. Otherwise they were to be fruits, very easily. It was to happen with all of them. With great care and concern, to form that peach, but now they have come up to this level and here we find them suddenly destroyed by the nonsensical horrible people who actually are of no virtue. You cannot understand the anguish. Now it is for the flowers to understand this.

I was happy to learn that people have started calling themselves ‘flower people’. It was a good idea. But they started another style of self-destruction out of frustration. Others are destroyed as well, as you are also destroying yourself. The other side of it is also very, very tragic. I met one of the Sahaj Yogis here who had broken his back because he did parachuting. So I said, “Why did you do this?” “What was the need to do parachuting, of all the things?” Because I know his value, I know his substance, I know he has the feeling. I said, “You should not have gone for parachuting. You are not the type, from planes.” He said, “Out of sheer frustration I thought better break my neck! Still I came out of it. Then I thought I must be worth something more, the way I did it. I did it very well. But still it is there that there must be more value out of life.”

But some of you have overdone everything. Why? Because you have not been able to evaluate yourself,  and to find out about yourself, to know about yourself and what is the material you are. When you are the hope of the whole Creation, how is it that you did not [take] heed to your own being? And this is the second hurdle that I have to face, you have to face and all those who believe that they should get Realisation have to face. This is how I am describing the void here because I have to do in a very short time and you know the subject matter is very great.

I would suggest that let us have The light first. Let us get the Enlightenment first. Then it would be easier to talk about it. Without light, what am I going to describe to you? And why should you believe me? So better have your light. Better feel it, manoeuvre it, understand it and then use it.

First time when the Kundalini touches the brahmarandhra or when it opens out at this point, then you start feeling these cool vibrations. So actually, that has happened? Let us see, in medical terminology. The central path, which is the sushumna, represents the parasympathetic nervous system. I do not want to bore you with the medical terms because I have been bored myself quite a lot!

The central path of this sushumna is manifesting the parasympathetic and if you go and ask doctors, they’ll say, “Oh, we don’t know much about it. Don’t ask.” This is the point; this is the line by which we manifest our present: now, today, just now. Today is also true, but [actually] this moment. We cannot stay on this moment, either we go to the past or to the future, but we cannot stay here. If we could stay here, then we could see these two things clearly. But we are all the time jumping and we cannot see because the past is finished and the future doesn’t exist. So we don’t see anything. The sum total is, that we don’t see anything.

We can only see something or feel something if we could steady ourselves on this parasympathetic, which we cannot; medically, they say that we cannot tap the energy of parasympathetic. Now this is what we have achieved up to this point as human beings. This is our achievement, which is felt in our physical being, in our emotional being and in our mental being. But also, there is another being which is our Spiritual being which we can aspire for, but we cannot feel it. And that Spiritual being resides in the heart as Spirit.

That Spirit sees you, It knows everything about you, but you cannot get to it. Your own attention does not reach that, that’s why you cannot feel it. For example, you see this pillar; so the pillar is not you, you see these flowers [so] flowers are not you, you see this hand, so this hand is not you, because you see it. So there are two things going on all the time. Then you see you have a brain, that means you are not your brain. Then you see that you think then you are not your thoughts. Then the One that sees everything is the One that resides in the heart. This is the reflection of God Almighty, Who resides on your head, on your heart.

Now immediately, if you start jumping as a jumping jack, that, “How do you talk of God?” I am just talking of it, I am not saying that, “Here is the key.” Later on we’ll find out really [if] all what I talk is true or not. But for the time being it’s just a hypothesis and you just listen to this as a hypothesis.

So the reflection of God within us is the Spirit, and when the Kundalini rises, She touches the feet of the God Almighty – this is symbolically I am saying – [then] immediately, you become enlightened by the Spirit, the Atma, and it starts pulsating in you, in your heart there is pulsation. But you cannot feel that pulsation in your body usually. When that happens you start feeling that pulsation moving when the Spirit pulsates. And when He is the One who is part and parcel of the whole, you get connected to the whole, you start feeling the whole and that’s how you actualise it. You actually get it within yourself, the manifestation of collective consciousness.

It’s very much higher than that of animal consciousness. Though many human beings aspire to be animals, surprisingly! Like, if an animal has to pass through the filth, he doesn’t feel it, but human beings can. They do not feel the colour, I mean, they do not enjoy the colours. They cannot enjoy a good painting. For an animal, if you show him a painting, he won’t understand what it the beauty [of it]. He doesn’t know what is the beauty.

So, in the same way when you become your being, your consciousness becomes collectively manifesting. That means you become one with the whole. Say you are a cell somewhere here in the image of God, then this cell becomes connected with the whole. You can feel the connection, that’s how the wholesomeness is established within you.

How it happens is that you start feeling the vibrations flowing from your hands, and all these chakras which are enlightened, get enlightened here and activated. All these colours will tell you which chakras are related to which finger here. With this sketch here, you can make out all of them. Now when these are activated, you start feeling others on these activated hands. You can start feeling their centres. You can start feeling your own centres. This is what is Self-realisation, that you can feel your own centres. All other nonsense has no meaning.

People talk of Self-realisation and end up by going to some sort of a cemetery. They try to show that from the dead they are going to get you something that is above living! This is the only way that you get your Realisation. If you say a seed sprouts through its plumule, that’s a fact. But if somebody says that you can sprout a seed through the trunk, can you do it? Or through the cotyledon, as you call it? In the cotyledon you can have the germinating power, which is not. It’s all properly placed and built-in within us. And this is the instrument, which is there within us, and only through this instrument you are going to get your Realisation.

There’s no other way out.

And this one is such a beautiful one because, here is your Mother, is your individual Mother. She is waiting for this day. She is the one who guided you. She is the one who took you to spirituality, She is the one, She knows that there is something above, and She is just waiting for a chance to rise and give you that Realisation.

Now, in this also, there are thugs, as I call them. I have no other word to describe them. They have made a mess of his Kundalini of yours. If you read some Kundalini book you would not come to my programme. They think she’s the most ferocious lady ever born. All sorts of perverted things they have said about this Mother of yours; while She is the most loving thing that you can ever have.

She is the one who is going to bestow His bliss on you while the horrible ones have tried to malign Her, to shame Her, insult Her and have tried to do such things that it’s insulting, absolutely a poison.

Every time I have to tell you about these ghastly people which I don’t want to talk about, because it’s so ugly to talk of these horrible snakes. But they are there in the garden and I have to talk. I have to warn you all the time and you have to be very, very careful about them.

Now, I think this is such a big subject that I don’t know how will I be able to give the complete idea about it. But so far, I think I have explained to you that you have a purpose in life, and there are milestones of your evolution placed within you as centres, subtle centres, which you can see with your eyes pulsating and can feel through the stethoscope. And here is ego and superego within you which has given you the freedom, an independent personality and you can act as independent people. And with this personality, only, you achieve that higher state. And when you achieve that, the manifestation of that Divine Force, through you, starts flowing. At the end of the day, I would say that you become a hollow personality; that you become the real instrument of God, that the power starts flowing through you and you see it flowing and working and you can manoeuvre it.

Of course, again talking about the snakes: they give you no powers whatsoever, and take away all the powers you have. But the whole Creation has been created, and you have been manifested as human beings to achieve your own powers.

So there’s a sweet story about Radha and Krishna: once they say Radha was jealous of Shri Krishna’s flute. So She went to Krishna and She said, “What is this? All the time you are putting her [flute] to your lips, I don’t like it.” He said, “Why? Are you jealous?” She said, “I am very jealous of her. What is her speciality? What is so special about her?” He said, “Why don’t you go and ask her?” He said, “It’s better that you go and ask her.” So She went and asked that, “What is your speciality that He’s all the time keeping you near His heart? And all the time He’s using you?” She laughed aloud and she said, “Do you know what is my speciality? My speciality is that I have no speciality. I have become a hollow person. I am absolutely hollow and He plays and the world enjoys and I see the thing flowing through me, and I just watch all that. And people say that it is the murli, it is the flute, that is playing. I just find I am just a hollow personality.” So Radha went to Krishna and She said, “All right, next time you make a hollow personality out of me!”

This is what it is! And whatever is promised has to be done, is to be done. God never makes promises which He doesn’t keep.

May God bless you all.

I hope you all will get Realisation and you will steady it. That’s very important, because as I have told you, it’s not meant for lousy people.

Thank you very much. I am so happy to see so many people here who are seekers, who are deep people, who have been seeking all their lives and they have to realise that this is the only way it has to be done.

As I said, I don’t know how people charge money for it: it’s something ridiculous and it’s very, very low, I mean, if you talk about it. You cannot charge money for your love. I work in India and they told me, “Mother, can you give us a list of people whom you have cured?” I said, “It’s very embarrassing. Don’t ask me such questions!” They said, “But you must give us the list of people whom you have cured!” I said, “I have never made a list.” So he said, “Oh really? Why not?” I said,“Do you make a list of people whom you feed? Whom you love? Whom you give them mercy, to your own children? Do you make a list of all that? How many times you have done washes to your children? Or you enjoy it so much [that] where is the time for all these nonsensical things?” Has to be! It’s very embarrassing I think.

It is that beautiful way of giving.

May God bless you again and again. And let’s see now what happens. How far you get it.

I would say we will ask some questions, and if you can ask some questions. But you should not be very sensitive about it. Because people ask me very, very direct questions and when I give them an answer they feel hurt. And I don’t want to hurt you for anything because you are already very much hurt. I do not want to hurt you. But it happens, and it happens like that, that you ask funny questions and when I tell you the answer, sometimes you feel hurt. So just ask me questions.

Seeker: When I go into relaxation I get convulsions in the abdominal area.

Shri Mataji: How can that be relaxation my child? Just tell me. How can that be if there are convulsions? It’s a sickness. It’s a possession.

Have you seen possessed people? They get the same thing. When they are possessed they get the same thing. They feel relaxed because somebody else has taken their responsibility, but physically they can’t bear the pressure and they have contortions. It’s very easy to find out: you must be having lots of lunatic asylums here, you can go and see them, when they are possessed how they behave. Say, epilepsy is one of them. If you have seen in epilepsy how people get into a kind of a posture from where they cannot get out for hours together. It is possession.

It’s not only that your stomach will be absolutely relaxed but you will relax the stomachs of others.

Seeker: Will this take us to God realisation?

Shri Mataji: I beg your pardon?

Seeker: Will this take us to God realisation? This Self-realisation, will this take us to God?

Shri Mataji: Of course, of course! You see there are some people [who] just arrive there very fast, but some people go through certain stages.

The first stage of Realisation, when the Kundalini crosses over the Agnya Chakra, is called as Thoughtless Awareness. Only with this Thoughtless Awareness you can start curing people. You can cure people if your Kundalini has crossed the Agnya. That’s how you find many people can cure, but they don’t know how to do it, they don’t know how to manoeuvre it.

And then we have the Kundalini rising above the fontanel, which we can call as the time, I call it, as Self-realisation. Because that’s the time you become another human being with collective consciousness. With that, you can start giving Realisation to others, correcting your own chakras, everybody’s chakras, and you can start feeling it. So many things will happen. I mean it’s endless. I cannot  tell you how you realise the bliss of the Divine by that.

It’s something so wonderful that you will be amazed. We have here one Sahaj Yogi. In the beginning, you know, I had only six of the for four years, for your information, in England. And I worked with six of them. And one of them in the beginning felt like, “Let’s see how this collective consciousness works!” So he said, “My father has not written any letter to me.” I said, “All right, you don’t write to him, you just think about him and feel his vibrations.” He started getting a heat here and burning here. He said, “Mother what does that mean?” I said, “All these centres are of you father. So you telephone to him and find out. He must be having bronchitis.” He had bronchitis. But when the fellow talked to him, his bronchitis got all right. It’s that fantastic.

So from Thoughtless Awareness you jump into collective consciousness, collective awareness. This collective awareness gives you the powers of collective consciousness by which you cure others. Even sitting down here you can cure other people, you can awaken their Kundalini, even give them Realisation. But that person you talk to on the phone should be connected and that he should know that there is a movement by some deliberations of somebody who is, we call, a Sahaj Yogi.

Then the third state is complete Self-realisation. That state comes, we call it as Nirvikalpa Samadhi, means where there is doubtless awareness, that you have no doubts anymore left about it. It’s not rational but it is a state in which you settle down.

In that state you have no doubts anymore about it. Then the powers are dynamic, and you start working on so many dimensions that you are amazed how things work out.

For example, I’ll tell you we have a lady here, I must say she is doubtlessly aware. She doesn’t feel anybody’s chakras or her chakras. All the time her vibrations are throughout. She wrote a letter to me saying that, “Mother there is a girl who has got cancer, she is about ten, eleven years of age and I don’t know how we can help her. She has come all the way from Hong Kong and they are saying that she has to die in about three months time.” I said, “All right.” “And she’s now going to America for further check up.” So she went to America and the American doctor said, “She has no cancer, nothing. Who told you she has cancer?” This is [just] one of the many times some dynamic things that will happen. At first you cannot believe it, it is so fantastic.

So this is the state of doubtless awareness. First the thoughtless awareness, then the doubtless awareness.

Now, the ‘awareness’ word, you see, is, in the dream we call it awareness only. Say, now, I say that normally what we are, in conscious mind, is a dream. So this is also awareness. And even after that is awareness. But in Sanskrit there are two words: one is ‘buddha’, another is ‘prabuddha’. If you put ‘pra’, means ‘enlightened’. So we should call it ‘enlightened awareness’. So it is thoughtless, enlightened awareness. And enlightened awareness is also termed as ‘samadhi’: so is ‘nirvichar samadhi’. And the second one is the doubtless, enlightened awareness: is the ‘nirvikalpa samadhi’, where there is no vikalpa.

Now this also is the term one has to understand, very carefully, what is a ‘vikalpa’. But I think that I will do some other time. And this is what is the Self-realisation. When you have achieved that, then there is God’s realisation [which] starts, where you start controlling the nature, you start controlling all that you see and you become the master of all that, but you do everything for the hita (हित), means for the well-being of your own and of the whole.

Your connection with the whole becomes absolutely clear cut when you become God-realised.

Means your awareness becomes so clear and so much effective as if people would say that, “Look at this man! How does he do it? And how it happens?” That is the state also responsible. After all the whole Creation has been through Sahaja only – spontaneous. And in the same way this is also spontaneous.

There are only two persons, though they were born to incarnations, who were Divine, and who became themselves incarnations. They were born as human beings but became themselves incarnations. But even that gap can be covered. Why not?

Seeker: Mother you also say that there are many yogic people teaching the wrong things in the himalayas. Why does God allow this?

Shri Mataji: He doesn’t allow. You allow. I have told you, you have the freedom to choose. First thing you should know: a man who takes money, how can that be near God?

You remember, you have Christ before you. You know he took one whip and whipped these people in the church. A man like him who said, “Forgive them for they do not know what they are doing.” He whipped them. He whipped those people. That’s what they deserved, and you went to them and bowed to them. While you are all very intelligent people and why such intelligent people are being attracted to this kind of a nonsense and an absurd thing? While poor simple uneducated are better off. They know, “Oh we understand all that!” They are not stupid. You must understand [that] when you have money, all such thugs are going to come down here.

I’ll take the other position now, let’s see: supposing somebody comes out of the jail, in India, he has no social position. He cannot live socially well. So he says, “All right, let me take another form,” or “let me have a drama.” He makes a camouflage out of it. He makes a person who is very saintly – oh, very poor – now he greets you there. Or he may even master some of the ??, makes no difference. Then he comes out. He says, “You see, I will show you the water will come out of the earth, just now.” Previously he night he must have arranged that there might be a pipeline going, and he must have put some sort of a clock there, and which he must have picked up and shown you that the water is coming out. And people will say, “Oh, this is a great miracle! He hit there and the water has started coming!” So the sensible person has to go from the back door and see how he lives. And see about the pipeline. You should be on the alert. This alertness, if you do not keep in spirituality….even after Realisation you have to be alert about your attention. First the alertness is about others, but after Realisation the alertness is about you, because within you there are thieves who have come inside you, so you have to watch that.

But you people are so simple and so innocent. And I really don’t want to even blame your freedom for it, really, because they did a good job of it, no doubt about it.

Seeker: May I ask one? If you get Realisation, one raises the Kundalini and gets Realisation. Do you have to repeat that or is once enough?

Shri Mataji: Yah, yah. You have to. You see with some people it just goes [up] and goes down. One horrible guru we have in India. I don’t know what he’s done that you raise the Kundalini, you bring it up and it again sucks back. Again you bring it up and again it is sucked back. Oh, you don’t know how much one has to work hard. With some people it is not. But one has to work hard, morning till evening the whole night. Last night I think we slept about 2:30. Oh, it’s a terrible job, [but] it has to be done. But there is no guarantee about it.

Now, you will understand one thing, very simple it is, because you are coming from a different experience relative to God, that here nothing is selling, nothing is guaranteed. It’s the whim that you get your Realisation. It’s God’s whim that He gives you Realisation. It’s in complete freedom that He sits there. You cannot overpower His freedom, because He’s not seeking elections. You are to elect Him. It’s the other way round towards Him,  you see? So there is no guarantee of anything. Do you understand such a situation?

Seeker: We desire it, we have to desire it, for God. And we go to a guru and perhaps our discernment, our rationalisation, our alertness, isn’t as acute as it should be.

Shri Mataji: Yes.

Seeker: How can these people, these men, continue and speak of God in such glowing terms, such heightened terms?

Shri Mataji: They have no Kundalini, they have no Spirit. They have achieved there doom a long time back. You see, a person who is absolutely shameless, what can you do about such a person? They do not want their ascent. As the story is there were some monkeys playing, and one of the monkey’s tail was cut, so he wanted everybody’s tail to be cut. That is their attitude: they want everybody’s tail to be cut! Only thing that you can do is not to have anything to do with them.

Seeker: How then do we know an authentic person who will take us to God?

Shri Mataji: How do we know? Because if a person makes you authentic, that person is definitely authentic! You can see very clearly, you see, when they say, “We’ll give you these powers and this.” You cannot manoeuvre them! You cannot understand them, you do not even have the know-how. You see, how do I say you are an authentic engineer? Because you know engineering. All right? That’s how you are authentic. If you do not know how to do anything, how are you authentic? So the one who gives you the authenticity itself, is authentic. If he gives you the powers by which you know the know-hows and you yourself can bestow those powers to others, then you can say it is authentic, isn’t it. Oh, you all know all about it!

I’ll tell you what happens. Now, I’ll tell you what it is that disturbs you. Why it has happened, I will tell you. You see, they are Greek so they have to be translated. Don’t get upset about it. What has happened, really, should I tell you?

Now, the thing that has happened is that you developed your societies, you developed your countries and you became developed countries. You developed your brains also too much, and the whole thing was the Right Side movement as we call it: too much mental activities. You started analysing everything. You thought you can analyse everything, you can do everything. And you developed too much of ego.

We can say about fifty years back the ego of say a British person, was so great that it was pushing all the superego on one side. But then the suppression became painful and hurting you. So the other people who followed them, they tried to push it back again. All right? They said, “No, this is too much of ego, we just can’t bear it, it’s colossal! They are a bit too egoistical.” So they started pushing their superego too much. Now when you start doing that, what happens [is] that the wobbling starts in your brain and you are not sure as to whether it was ego or superego, you could not understand. This was the first beginning. Then the war broke out, Hitler came in and he broke your families, he broke your values in something sublime and supreme. All these things happened. Then people like Freud and all that came in to give you another kind of thoughts which also destroyed you.

Now you were in uncertain conditions, and uncertain thinking. You were basically in that position. So when something came from a foreign country, about which you had no knowledge, an ignorance, you thought, “Better not think about it because by thinking what have we done? By thinking we have invaded other countries. By thinking we have ruined our families. By thinking we have done. So better not think about it, let’s accept it. Whatever they say, let’s accept it.”  And when they came out with great words like ‘peace of the world’ , ‘a domain of this and that’ you just were charmed by that. But naturally.

Then I would say, that you are the right people for Sahaj Yoga, and you are the people. You are those supreme people who have been selected by these thugs, because now you know all the methods of the thug and you are not going to go more in that. This is for the immunity to be developed within you, that you had to go there. And there’s nothing to fear, because your Mother is quite capable. You are the ones crucified for others, because you could only do that. It was only your strength that could bear it out. It was nice that strong flowers were taken out. If they were just very weak flowers you would have been finished! So you had to play that role. Why worry about it? We are going to work it out so don’t worry about the past. You are the ??. Doesn’t matter. Moreover you will be surprised: unless and until human beings go through such experiences, they do not come to Sahaj Yoga also.

Do you know, these boys wanted me to go to Brighton, I said, “Right! You go to Brighton, then I’ll join! Not now!” Because I have been to Brighton, I know what sort of a place it is. And I don’t know, but poor things, they accepted it, and went down to Brighton. And not a single soul came to the programme. But there’s another horrible one there, which they are all jumping, shouting. They are increasing in sizes so much that they have to take another place and another place, and it’s going on there so let them go through that. What am I to do? I cannot force you.

You know, I started my work in 1970, actually, but with one person. In this England, for four years, I worked with six people, as I told you. So, it’s all right.

Most of them, even, they come in a big group sometimes. Yesterday for example we went down to another place, and most of them who were there, most of them except two or three, they were sick with something so I was improving their throats and one lady was having epilepsy, another was having another trouble, and I was just improving them.

So you are the ones which are described, what we call the real, valley entity. So what does it matter? Nothing has gone wrong with you. Not to feel very down. I’ll do it very carefully. You won’t be hurt at all. You are going to get the whole of it, and all the secrets, all the secrets. And you are going to master this art and you are going to change the whole world, don’t you worry.

You will know your powers very soon, how dynamic you are. So don’t get upset about it, and don’t harbour about the past. Somebody has to build the road. It’s nice they chose such strong children of mine. I am very happy that they did not put their hands on the crippled ones. So there’s nothing to worry about. All right?

May God bless you.

What’s that? Are there any other questions? No?

Shri Mataji: Yes my child?

Seeker: Can you explain what we have been told about karma?

Shri Mataji: Karma? All right. That, I must explain to you. This is another story. But where did they get it I don’t know, that “You have done your karmas, you must cleanse it.” Then why are they there? What are they doing? These are the sweepers, why don’t they sweep all the dirt? Why should we clean the dirt? You are paying them! They are paid for it!

Who does the karmas? Do you know that? The ego does the karmas. Do the animals feel that they have done any karmas? They do not accumulate any filth. Why do we accumulate our karmas? Because our ego is there. Because you feel “I am doing it.” All right? But you don’t do anything actually, you know.

I tell a story about some villagers going on an aeroplane, and they were told not to carry too much luggage, so they were very cautious. When they sat down, they took all their luggage and put it on their heads. People said, “Why?” They said, “You see we don’t want the aeroplane to carry too much luggage.” In the same way you are carrying your karmas! It is absurd! It’s only your ego that does the karmas. When your ego falls down, when you are opened out, you do not do any karmas, you know that you do not do it.

It’s very nicely explained in the [Bhagavad] Geeta. Because these people have not told you anything about it. It’s so clear cut, that the karmas become akarmas when you get Realisation. Gyan, what is gyana is awareness. When the awareness is enlightened then you become prabuddha. That means your ego falls off on both the sides. Ego is no more there. The myth of doing karma is finished. And these people play on that myth by saying, “All right, you are carrying this luggage? Now you better carry even the aeroplane on your heads!” (Laughter)

You better put all these aeroplanes on their heads. And their karmas, who is going to cleanse them? Have they thought of it? They are talking about your karmas, but what about their karmas?

Karma is a myth, as long as you are in a myth. For example in a dream you are running fast to save yourself from the police. You are running fast, you cannot find a ladder, you find half of it and you jump onto this and jump onto that. When the dream is over, if I tell you, “Now, better you jump!” You will say, “Oh, the dream is over!” Instead of awakening you, if I say, “All right, run, run, run. Still the police is after you!” Then the police will catch hold of them, those police.

It’s all mythical. It’s said very clearly that it becomes akarma. Like the sun giving you the rays: does it do any work? No it just emits, it just emits. Like people say, “Mother you must be very much working hard.” But no, you see, it just emits. I don’t do any work, nothing, it just emits. That’s my nature. It just flows.

Some say, “Mother, how can we return it back.” Like we had one girl, she said, “Mother I know very good how to massage your feet.” I said, “All right, come along. Do it.” She started massaging my feet and her feet became relaxed and she felt relaxed and she felt like sleeping. So she said, “What’s this Mother?” I said, “This is what it is!” Because I don’t do anything. Absolutely a lazy person! Just sitting down. It just emits it just flows, it works.

Like the sun’s rays come and change the whole world, the chlorophyll is created, but the sun doesn’t say, “I do it. I have done this.” This is exactly what happens to you when you get Realisation, the vibrations start flowing, then you say, “Mother it is not rising.” You never say, “I am not doing it.” “It is not coming, it is not working.” You talk in the third person. You never talk in your own way that, “I have not done it. I have not achieved it.” “I have given Realisation.” You never say that! You say, “He is not realised.” Now, [if] your own son is there, [if] he is not realised, “You say, you know, Mother, it’s not working. What to do?”

So the karmas, whatever are done, are not felt, so where is the phala (फल: fruit) about it, what is the fruit about it? Nothing! I will have to give you another lecture on Geeta, I think, then you will understand that you do not do any karmas and there are no phalas about it. It is just a myth. And this is what Shri Krishna wanted you to realise, so He played His diplomacy. And I will tell you about His tricks, because I am the only one who knows. Then you will all know about His tricks: that you don’t do any karmas, so there is no phala about it. But when you are in the dream you cannot say this. When you are awakened then you just feel, you say, “No it’s not going. It’s not coming. It’s not working. It doesn’t  work out. It’s not solved.”

Today before coming here I went to see a cancer patient. Her own daughter was saying, “Mother no, it’s not flowing. Still it’s not coming up. It’s the left catching, the right catching. This side and that.” And the lady herself has touched Realisation. She was saying, “Yes, Mother, still my left is bad.” She herself was saying so. So they say, “That is left, that is right, that is front, that is another one.” Like the children say. If you take a child and say, “Now, will you go home?” So they say, “This boy will not go!” That means they are different from ‘this boy’: “This boy will not go.” They speak in [the] third person. In the same way you also speak in the third person. The whole thing becomes akarma. So the myth has to break, the dream has to dissolve.

Seeker: Does that mean there is no reincarnation?

Shri Mataji: How can you say that? “There is no karma, there is no reincarnation,” all these are their ideas, nonsense. They talk like that. Then why did Krishna Himself reincarnate so many times on this Earth? Did he have any karmas? He was Yogeshwara himself. You should ask them, “Why did He reincarnate? Did He not?” He came as a fish, then He came as this and that and that, and then He came as Rama, Parashurama, and then He came as Shri Krishna: Why? How? Because He, at least, was beyond karmas.

Actually I would explain that, how it works out, and you will all understand – this is all Right Side activities – that, when the whole machinery was set up, the whole office was set up, there had to be some officers appointed. So the people were selected out of their good deeds and good behaviour. They were made into Gods and were put permanently into places to act as officers. Like you have an officer here who will allow you to come inside the hall. A public place, or you can say, a public office, has got officers appointed. But you are the people who are going to be received, you see. For example, the queen has to come, so you appoint somebody, you see to the coach, another one is appointed to see to the laying of the red carpet. Then third is appointed with the flower bouquet there, standing. And when the queen comes they are positioned in their places. They need not reincarnate.

But you are to enter into the hall. You have to come onto the stage. It is you for whom all these permanent fixtures were created. Why do you want to be some permanent fixtures there? We have had enough of them.

Who’s going to come on the stage? Who is going to be adorned? We are in the central path. They are all settled on the right hand side and  left hand side. These are called ‘ganas’ on the left hand side and on the right…

(break in recording)

..why this universe was created? Why all these elements were created and then Gods were created? Why? All these chiranjeevas (चिरञ्जीव) were created: those who achieved the state of permanence, the chiranjeevas are. Why? Just to evolve you.

All right? Which is the other myth they have given you?

Seeker: Can you talk a bit more on ego. It seems that the ego is the main problem. You have to go beyond that.

Shri Mataji: No, no, no! It’s not ego, it can be both. My child it could be ego or a superego. You see, actually, nowadays it is more superego. You will be surprised.

Seeker: Like you are saying going beyond the ego.

Shri Mataji: No. Not only ego. It could be ego or superego. I’ll tell you how. I must tell you about ego and superego so you will understand.

An example of ego is that, say, a child is having the milk from the mother: in complete joy, the child is, and then you remove the child from that joy. Then he develops the ego. He says, “Why have you done it?!!” Then you tell him, “Don’t do like that!” Then you develop the superego within you. So the conditionings come through superego. And the ego is the one through which you assert yourself. And the superego is the one through which you receive conditionings.

So both could be there. And with the people who have been to these funny, horrible, people, more is the superego than the ego I tell you. I wish they were more egoistical to really slap them nicely on their faces. But they were not. They were so humble to accept them, so they are conditioned, they are more conditioned and much more affected by superego than by ego.

So we have so many cases of superego nowadays.

Seeker: How can we be obstructed?

Shri Mataji: You can be if there is [something] wrong with your chakras, there is an obstruction (baddha) in you. But the Kundalini Itself looks after it. She Herself works it out. Then you can get vibrations there by other Sahaj Yogis. They can help you. They will have to jolly well help you because they will feel the obstruction within themselves!

Unless and until you feel all right, I am not going to feel all right myself: whether it is two nights or five nights makes no difference. It is that way. I mean otherwise, even if you try to save somebody who is getting drowned, if you think you are doing it for others you are sadly mistaken. It is somebody in you who is getting drowned, that’s why you are there.

(end of recording)