The Problem of Ego

Caxton Hall, London (England)

1979-10-22 The Problems of Ego, Caxton Hall, 78' Download subtitles: EN,LT,NL,PL (4)View subtitles:
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“The Problem of Ego,” Caxton Hall, London (UK) – 22 October 1979.

From next time I’ll start the series because those who are not here, I mean, sort of lots of people will be coming when you will be advertising. Cooly (Tony Paniotou) did you advertise for today or for next time? He’s also not here?

Not yet, so we’ll start it from next time, the series, like that. Would be better for people to follow. 

Those who have come for the first time should sit in front, is better. You see, I can look after you better. All right? Just put your hands like this.

Today I was thinking of telling you about the ego problem, because I think everybody feels that that’s the biggest problem they all have; and there’s a big ego trip one gets into, and they don’t know what to do with it.

So first part I will tell you how the ego rises and what it does to us and the second how to understand it, how to tackle the position of ego and put it in its own aspect.

As you see in the map here, the yellow stuff that you see on top is the ego. The balloon that is yellow is the ego. You see down below it starts from the Swadishthana. This is the colour of the bile within us. And this Swadishthana Chakra which is for our creativity is directly connected to that ego there. And when it starts rotating round the Void and going to the various parts of the Void, it collects all the problems of the Void.

[The] Void is that green circle within us where, physically, we have uterus, we have kidney – it’s a complete viscera – all the intestines, the ascending, transverse, descending colon, liver, is the upper part of liver more, then also pancreas and the spleen.

So all the problems of these organs are collected by this chakra which moves. It comes out of the Nabhi Chakra and moves round and round and round, and collects all the problems. It nourishes, gives power, the vital power to these organs, and also it generates [the] necessary power for our creative action. It also collects the fat cells of the Void [and] converts them into the proper cells for the brain, for its use, for the grey matter. All this work it has to do, one chakra.

It manifests aortic plexus outside. On the physical level we call it as the aortic plexus, and it has got six sub-plexuses which look after all these organs.

This [chakra] is meant for our action. When we go into action, this chakra starts working. By the first power, which is on the left-hand side, we desire. But by the second one we go into action, and it’s called as kriya shakti.

Now when this action starts within us, it produces the by-products or we can say all the problems of these organs, which are to be deposited somewhere, and they are all deposited in the brain as ego. All the problems that we have out of these – this creativity and the action of all these organs – are to be counterbalanced, and as a counterbalance the ego develops.

For example, now I have to come and meet you all here: I had to get out of the house, I had to change, I had to drive, whatever it is, then I came, I had to put in effort. I had to plan out how I’m going to talk to you – that I don’t do normally, but I’m saying in generally people do it. And I put in the effort to come in. Now how am I to justify this? All this effort? What is the satisfaction that one gets out of doing this effort, this kriya, this action? We go on doing some action, and why should we do it? After all, action means, any activity means exertion, botheration, problems, so best is to sit at home and do nothing of the kind! But we do not do that, we take up challenges, we rush up to it. All this we do with our kriya shakti, with our Right [Side] action.

Because we do action, we have to have a satisfaction about it. As a reaction to that, ego develops. If we do not have the ego we would not do anything – is a fact. But ego is the one that rationalises all our madness, the rat race we are running into.

If we did not have the ego we would not go into this nonsense. The more we try to rationalise our activities, the more ego develops to satisfy: “All right, very good, very good. Now you are a successful man! See? You’re a very successful man, you have got this, you have got that.”

Lots of misunderstandings creep in when we pamper our ego like this – or I should say that when we are satisfied with our ego – [such] that we really get lost. We get identified with our ego and not with ourselves.

So if you do some work very well: supposing you have, say, made a beautiful poetry or, say, not piece of poetry but say you have made a very good painting, then you would like people to appreciate. If they do not appreciate you, you think you have done nothing, though you have done a beautiful canvas. But still you will be so dissatisfied with yourself unless and until people appreciate you. They must garland you, they must say, “Oh, you are great, you are really unique! You are a genius!” You know many artist who created great art, got trapped into this kind of misidentification. When they created some great art, the art could not give them satisfaction: they had to go to ego. And Mr. Ego would not be satisfied unless and until everybody says, “Yes, yes, you are very good. You have done this, you are a genius!” “You are this, you are that.” That’s how the ego develops then within us.

But a situation can arise where, even when we have done nothing, we want to take the credit: then we call such a person egoistical; who says, “I will do this, I have done this, I, I, I, I” – then we call him an egoistical person. Because he gives words to his ego, that’s why we call him egoistical. But all of us have got this Mr. Ego there, sitting on our heads. Then it starts bloating and the more successful you are, the worse it is. The more you indulge into planning and thinking, the worse it is. The balloon goes on, pumped, as if you are pumping a balloon. The more you pump, the more it becomes. And you can never realise that you are not that ego. Then you start feeling very nice about it, because everybody says, “Oh, what a great man he is!” The whole society develops on those lines.

Today only I was discussing about the way people give you “C.O.B.”, I don’t know, “V.I.P.” and “M.A.D.” like that. And we carry those banners with us. And we expect everybody to respect those banners which have been given to us, because we’ve done some work, somebody has recognised us, branded it, stamped it, so we believe really this must be something great! So we accept that brand and we want to keep it up. So it’s a doubly fixed thing that you are really rewarded for what work you are doing.

That’s why people start becoming [a] nuisance also. Supposing in a society some people do not find any significance to their lives: then they will go to Oxford Street, stand there, wear funny dresses, start jumping and singing something nonsensical, and people make a nuisance out of themselves (Mother is referring to the “Hari Krishna” cult people on Oxford Street). We have seen people who paint their hair in different colours, put pencils in the noses (laughing) and do all kinds of mad things just to attract the attention of others; because we want to attract the attention of others, because our ego is not yet satisfied. But this ego is never satisfied. It goes on asking for more food, more food, and you enjoy it too.

When such an ego is bloated within us, we cannot understand what we are doing. People can befool you like that. It’s very easy to befool a person who is ego-oriented, than to befool a simple person. A simple-hearted man cannot be easily befooled, because he’s not on a trip. But those who are on an ego trip, [if] you tell them that, “This is the best way to go to hell,” they will be the first booking their seats. There will be a queue for it! And people would be asking for it, “All right, if it is so, it’s good.” That is how many gurus in this world have come forward, have befooled you, by telling you that you will get these powers, those powers, that will happen, this will happen. And they know how to pamper your ego. For example, they might say, “This is a world organisation of spirituality, and you are the head of the world organisation,” and you believe it.

Ego means misappropriation. You believe in it because you think that, “After all I must be something, and I have done this, I have done that.” But actually what happens physically is that, when this balloon spreads on your head all over: the aura of the brain surrounds the heart, normally, but when there is ego problem, then ego surrounds the heart. And when ego surrounds the heart, the brain is cut off from the heart. So you are a non-integrated person, or we can say disintegrated. Your heart runs one side, your brain runs another side, your body runs third side, your emotions run fourth side. So four people running four horses, and that’s how you are completely torn. I mean, it’s impossible to stand on two stools, but if there are four with two legs, it’s a big feat to exist.

So this kind of ego trip comes in, by which you start behaving and living in this world in a very unnatural way. And if somebody says that, “No, not your ego, not that. That’s not you. You have to be yourself. Ego is not yourself. Do not be satisfied with this ego,” then you don’t like it.

Because you are much higher than ego, much greater than ego, much more than what you think your ego can do. With ego at the most what can you do? At the most what can you do with your ego? What people have achieved through ego? Nothing!

Whatever they have discovered even in the sciences has come from the unknown, from God’s own treasures. If God has given you some knowledge of the unknown, you should not feel pampered about it and think that, “Oh, this is what we have found.” No, He graciously gave you this knowledge which has come to you, so just take it with humility.

And this ego is very, very dangerous for Kundalini awakening.

Now you look at the diagram, imagine the whole of your head is covered with that yellow stuff, and this blue thing becomes a very small one. So first of all the desire to seek, itself, is diminished. You go for seeking as if you are going to a cinema hall. There is no combination of what you are thinking and your heart. You are not seeking from your heart, you are seeking just with your brains. Because you have read three, four books, there’s a fashion [that] everybody is seeking, everybody is looking as if they are seeking something, so let us also seek. It is not coming from your heart, because you can see that the activity of heart has become practically zero. You do not desire anything, it is what your ego desires


you run after.

Anything that doesn’t satisfy your ego, you get upset about it. One must go on all the time saying that, “You are the fastest horse, you are the greatest person, you are the most unique personality,” then only you are satisfied. It cuts you out so much from your heart. That’s why we cannot find joy, because joy you can only get through your heart. But this Mr. Ego gives you some sort of a satisfaction which is very superficial, temporary, and leads you nowhere.

With this ego-orientation, only, you get so many diseases, as I have told you before: like diabetes, heart attack, we can say also cancer could be one of them, arthritis you might get. You also get with this too much thinking, paralysis, paralysis is because of that, and kidney failures. The worst is liver. Because of over activity [the] liver is neglected. We are least bothered about the liver. If you tell a child, “Don’t eat chocolates” in childhood.” I mean, it’s an impossibility, you cannot talk like that. I just once said that, “Why not stop giving chocolates to children, who cannot digest it,” because their liver is not that; or make something that is digestible to their liver from childhood, till they grow up. And why not dilute the chocolates also a little bit more? So the question comes in then, that, “How can you do it, Mother? It would be chucking out everything, and children would protest without chocolates.” Gradually they’ll forget.

The liver problem starts within you and you become thin, lean, pale, aggressive; all the time grumbling, grudging, sulking; never in joy, never in happiness.

You call it tension, stress, all these things but it’s nothing but over activity of this chakra. Tension is because the whole of it is covered with this balloon, and the balloon is still going on and on and on. That has to reduce. Sahaj Yoga is the only way really we can face our ego, because through Sahaj Yoga only we can see ourselves. But it is an impossibility with human beings to face themselves, even after Realisation they find it difficult.

For example, all our misidentifications are there. Say I’m dealing with English disciples here: before I start saying about the misidentification of the English, I must condemn all the Indians of the world, and all the Japanese, Chinese, Greeks, everybody else, and then I should say, “There’s also something wrong with English.” Otherwise I’ve had it! Unless and until at every stage I condemn all the rest of the world, I cannot talk of saying that we also have certain misidentifications which are sitting on our heads, by which we are oppressed; we think that this is the correct way of life; by which we have oppressed others.

And this ego business is so much prevalent in our society. Now, with all due apologies, I am talking about the Western society. When it comes to India I talk to them, but now I’m talking to you and think that I am also a Western person. So I can see certain things as a Western personality and don’t feel bad about it. For in the so-called certain traditions that we have – today only I was discussing, you see – like at the table we have to sit for dinner: all right, simple thing it is to sit at the table for dinner. Now dinner is there because God has been gracious to us; for our well-being, for our friendship we are all going to sit down. But go to any formal dinner, or you arrange a formal dinner, people would sit down, ten times discussing where is the seat of X and the seat of Y and the seat of Z! But if there is a slightest mistake in placing the people according to their date of birth, their face colour, their head colour, their height, their noses, their length, their upper lips; any difference is there found in the “Who’s Who” book, you see, that somebody was placed little higher in M.A.D. degree – then you’ve had it! All the good wishes of entertaining people, of doing some good friendship, of having, creating something very, very great is all lost. All the effort is lost, and you are left wondering, “Now what have I done? I did consult all the dictionaries and the ‘Who’s Who.’” – I mean, this “Who’s Who” is another ego-pampering! – but despite that there was a mistake somehow, and the person has taken a very big objection that Mr. X, who is one day junior to him, has been made to sit ahead of him. It’s the greatest calamity to his ego. The poor chairs do not know what happens for their different shapes! How much we fight over all such things, pampering our ego.

So on and so forth, we have so many things. But if I say, “Scrap all this nonsense! Why don’t you scrap it? Why to have all this, protocols, this, that? What is the need to have this seat for this gentleman, that seat?” After all, if there are ten people for dinner they can find their seats, there won’t be a chaos for ten people. Even for twenty people, even for three hundred. Why should there be seat allotted? If you have invited three hundred people they’ll all sit down. If they are remaining they’ll sit down for the second one or for the third one. What is such a hurry of having that programme altogether, or in such a systematic way that everybody feels unsystematic after that, everybody feels disturbed and upset after the programme is over?

With all the system, with all the corrections and with all the great planning we do, ultimately we find all have become nitwits!

There must be something wrong about it. And it becomes a frenzy, with a mob-like behaviour people have. Everybody will come out with very big faces, “Oh, what a mismanagement, you know, they did this!” What was it? One can’t even understand what the value of these things are. That’s why we have to be like small children. To them it does not matter where they sit. And so we are grown-up and matured, supposed to be mature people also; while children are still innocent and still ignorant, and still they have to grow up. We are supposed to be up-grown: what has grown within us is nothing but this Mr. Ego, not you.

When this happens, when this happens in the worst possible way – you know, today’s paper I was reading about this [Yorkshire] Ripper. Now the conclusion is reached that he’s not a psychopath, but he is on an ego trip. He’s doing all this for his ego satisfaction, because he telephones to the police, he sends a, what you call a tape to the police that he should be caught. He tells them, “You’ll meet me here,” and still they cannot catch him. So he thinks, oh, he’s such a great person that nobody can catch him, the greatest thief ever born who could not be caught!

So he’s not a psychopath, but I don’t know what name will you give to such a man? I mean to an egoist like this, the one who lives by ego, tries to satisfy his ego, and if his ego is not satisfied by something, he doesn’t feel satisfied. I don’t know, what should you call him?

Now, how to overcome this ego? Because people start seeing gradually this: it happens. They start seeing Mr. Ego, “Oh, very great, it is coming up, giving me ideas, all right.” You feel sometimes very depressed with the idea that this is Mr. Ego I was identified with. All right? You see your ego.

Then when you see your ego, then what do you do with it? Or if somebody says “Better watch your ego,” then what happens? You start fighting it. You say, “No, I will not say anything. I’ll just keep quiet. Let them say anything, whatever they like.” Then you become another type: you become a person who is suffering from superego. So you are left with desires, but do not act, and you would say that, “Let others aggress me. I am not going to aggress anyone. I’ll be very careful about non-aggression.”

But by this kind of a thing, what happens [is] that when you raise the left side – I mean, left side which goes up on the right-hand side, superego, it presses the ego down but again is bounced back, and there’s a kind of a bouncing going on. By this behaviour when you fight your ego, the ego sits on your head much more. The more you try to fight ego, it sits on your head. You are not to fight it.

Supposing you take a balloon and start hitting it, it will hit you back further. Go on hitting it: it will go on hitting.

Now, which is the way to deflate this ego? How do we deflate a balloon? In the same manner, take a pin and give it a prick. You just look at yourself, say, “All right, Mr. So-and-so, now how do you do?” and you laugh at yourself. You say, “Oh, you were very unhappy, you see, when you saw that you were not placed very much. All right, now have a pin from me!” And that’s how you deflate it. By seeing it, by all the time making fun of it yourself, and piercing a pin into it. Not by deflating, in the way people say that you deflate the whole thing by pushing it down or by killing it, but actually just making a hole in it.

In the same way, if you start looking at yourself, and make fun. Human beings only know very well how to make fun of themselves; no animals know that. If you learn how to make fun of yourself, your ego will go down. Otherwise this ego will suggest whatever you are doing is the best, “This has to be done, that has to be done. I am the best, I am doing everything good.” And you might be torturing someone, aggressing someone, you might be just playing into the hands of ego like a madcap. And you might be a real madcap, but you don’t know that you are. Because with ego a person becomes successful, so-called, he becomes very brilliant, shines out, in competition he comes up; and nobody dare say a word to him, otherwise he’ll have a punch on the nose! So also he becomes very mighty and powerful, and everybody hankers after such a behaviour and such a thing.

But a time comes when he realises that, “I was hanging in the air. I forgot my basis, and now I have to come down!” Like Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall, and they had a great fall. Such a beautiful rhyme, this thing is, written long time back. And all the king’s horses and all the men could not put Humpty Dumpty back again into its own shape! So don’t be Humpty Dumpties! And don’t live with that idea of being a Humpty Dumpty. It’s a simple thing to fight your ego. And that happens very often in Sahaj Yog. It’s a very common happening in Sahaj Yoga where your Kundalini itself creates such situations that you are flabbergasted at your ego.

You don’t have to judge others, just see yourself. Because it is for your own good. If somebody is egoistical it makes no difference to you; or non-egoistical, makes no difference. Only thing is, you should really see for yourself what is good and what is bad and that’s how it works out. Otherwise, I always say that when I give a lecture immediately we start thinking of somebody whom we think to be egoistical. Actually I’m saying to each one of you to see it: would be a better idea.

Now this ego when it covers your entire head, the complete Sahasrara which is shown there, the white area, gets covered. Your brahmarandhra, the portion from where the Kundalini has to pierce also gets covered. It’s very difficult. The whole thing is covered and this is small here, the gap is here. Now you cannot open the gap here. You have to open the gap here. So this has to go back like that, and this has to come up in the centre like that; then only Kundalini can come up.

So what happens at such stage, you will find such people have a left hand very weak, and right hand throbbing. So you raise their left, put to the right side. Again raise their left, put to the right. Again raise their left, put to the right. So you bring down the ego like this. And once the ego comes down, then this comes up and the gap comes in between, and then you raise the Kundalini in the centre. Kundalini will come out, and then you tie it up.

This is Shri Vidya. This is the knowledge of Shri, of the Holy Spirit. All other knowledge of where you have to sit in protocol, what you are, is all avidya and nonsense. Reading “Who’s Who” I don’t know what you will become, monsters or maybe some sort of a Frankenstein-style personality.

This is the vidya, Shri Vidya is the secret vidya of the Holy Ghost, by which you balance your ego with superego, your desire and action should be equal; and then raise the Kundalini, put it up and tie it up.

All these days people who been realised-souls, great people, have tried to point out the problems of ego, have talked to you. They said, “You shouldn’t have ego; ego is the worst thing, one should not be identified with ego,” and all that. And as soon as they have said it people have started just finding out how to do it! And in doing so they have become great “gurus” – themselves egoistical.

The fact is, you do not do anything. This is not ego, but is a mirage of ego that you have got. You really do not do anything. Everything is done by God. He is the Doer, He has the Great Ego. Your ego is just a copy, made artificially. Like He creates the flowers, and you make plastic flowers and say, “Oh, we have created flowers!” He does everything. It is He who expresses His ego, while you feel you have done something.

It happens to you when you get Realisation, when your Kundalini pierces the brahmarandhra, then you find the power flowing through you. And when you put your hands at somebody you find the Kundalini rising there, and then you find that you can feel the centres of that person and catching of his centres, and you are amazed. You say, “Mother, how is it? Just now was nothing, suddenly what has happened to me?” Because your ego has subsided and has become one with that of God, and you are giving vent to that power of God. You are playing the role of an instrument, of a hollow personality, and through you is passing the power of God, which is doing the real work. While you are thinking “I am doing it,” without getting Realisation. But after Realisation you just feel, “Oh, it’s flowing through me. I can see it flowing, I can see it working,” “It is…” You start talking in third person, you don’t say “I.” You just say, “It’s going, it’s coming, it’s not there. This is catching, that is catching.” It is in the third person you talk. You do not say “I am catching.” You do not say also that “I have risen the Kundalini,” you say “The Kundalini has risen.” Who has risen it? You never say that you have raised the Kundalini. You just say, “The Kundalini has risen. It is not coming up. It’s just going there,” as if you have become an instrument of some power which is flowing through you. And this is how we become one with that, and all our karmas dissolve into akarma.

Karmas are only the effect of our false idea of our ego. When there is no ego, where are the karmas going to be? If there is no one who is doing the doer is lost, then who’s going to do the karmas, and who’s going to take the load of the karmas upon themselves? Like when there is an organisation, then it says, “I have got assets and I have got these debts, and these are the things.” But [if] the association or that organisation disappears, then who has the debts? In the same way, you as ego disappear, and there is no effect of your karmas – all finished. All that was when one Mr. Ego was there. When Mr. Ego has gone, all liabilities have gone with him.

We are something different now. Now we have become the Self, the Atma. And when we have become the Atma, then we are one with that Universal Being, and He is making us do everything. Like my fingers don’t have ego that, “I am doing something and I am touching the thumb,” because it is a part of this body. Our nose does not have an ego that it is something special which is breathing. We say “I breathe,” we don’t say, “this nose breathes.” Neither the nose would say, “This mouth with which we eat food,” it never says that this, “I eat because of my mouth.” When you become one with that whole, then you just feel that the whole is working and we, as part, are working with it, and all the responsibilities are finished.

This is a little talk about ego today, because I felt I should tell you that in Kundalini awakening so far in the West, we have always faced this problem of ego.

Also of superego; those who have been to the gurus have been possessed by their gurus; and these come as a relief to ego-oriented societies. Because a horse has been running, all right, and you have been running on the horse; so somebody comes and says, “All right, now, I’ll tie you up to the stomach of the horse and I’ll be sitting on the horse myself.” This is the possession part. So you feel relieved, quite relieved: after all, you don’t have to ride the horse, you don’t have to jump. And the rider becomes somebody else, you feel also that there’s no responsibility, the rider is doing it. But after some time under the belly of the horse, you start having all kinds of physical problems.

With superego you have physical problems. That’s why it’s better to have superego than to have ego, because you know you don’t want to have any more of physical problems. But if you have ego you never get physical problems, or physically you may improve; you know, you feel very fine, on top of the world. That is the biggest problem. But you get mental problems: you can’t sleep, you go on thinking, thinking like mad and you cannot stop thinking. You go on arguing that it should be done. You think that everybody should do your work, while you are the most important person ever born.

So we have only one choice left: is to be in the centre, to watch your ego and superego.

For all the Sahaj yogis who are realised have to watch themselves, not others. You should not expect anything of others, just expect something of yourself for a change. With ego you do that: expect something of the others. In superego you do for others. But in Self-realisation you emit your Self as joy, love and beauty.

May God bless you all!

Now, should we go in for vibrations and Realisation?

Now for the new people I would request if they can take out their socks it would be even better, they’ll be freer.

Put both the feet on the ground, and sit in a most relaxed manner. Now as you must have understood, it is a happening. You cannot force it down, you cannot work it out. It has to happen to you. So no effort is to be put in, nothing. You just leave it, it works.

Put your hands just like this, in a very relaxed manner.

Even for Sahaj yogis it is very important that they should go on exposing themselves more and more to Divine Power.

And then when the Kundalini pierces the fontanel, you’ll immediately start feeling the cool vibrations in the hand.

But it happens in many various stages in many people. For example, some people may not even get the rising of the Kundalini at all – some people, very few.

With some people it rises halfway, again falls down.

With some people it gets caught up in different chakras, centres, which are not all right.

With some people there may be a physical problem, so you might feel some heat coming out. Especially with liver you get the heat coming out, lot of heat is there with the liver.

And with some people it could be very cold. Both things are not all right: you have to be in the centre. If you start feeling any cool in the hand, then it’s perfectly all right. But if there is, say, a hot coming in the hand, doesn’t matter, you can just throw it away and it will work out, in case it is hot.

But if there is trembling in your eyelids when you close your eyes, then please open your eyes.

The Kundalini moves up in everybody, it works in everyone; only thing, it has reactions according to the person who is facing it.

So if there is any reaction, or if the Kundalini doesn’t rise, there’s nothing to feel bad or argue about it. By argument if I could do, I would take you to courts and argue there things. But by argument I cannot do it. It has to happen in you. I am anxious that it should happen, in the same way you should be also anxious that it should happen to you.

There cannot be argument about it– it’s a happening. How can you argue about the sprouting of a seed? If it does not, you cannot argue with it: it has to sprout. It’s as simple as that. If it is not sprouting there’s something wrong. Then those people who are realised who know this, those who know Shri Vidya know how to raise it, and raise your Kundalini, tie it up and all that. But even [to] that, people have objection. They don’t mind becoming naked and dancing and doing all sorts of nonsense, but if somebody raises the Kundalini and ties it up, they don’t like it.

There is nothing to be afraid of Kundalini. Somebody told me the other day that English people are very afraid of ‘Kundalini’ word. Now some English people who went to India came by the back door, I believe and met all kinds of horrid people who had no right to talk of Kundalini, who were unholy people, unrighteous people: naturally they had very bad experiences about Kundalini. As I say that [if] some villager comes and puts his fingers into the, into the holes of two plugs and says that, “electricity is a horrible experience!” In the same way it might have happened to many. But there’s nothing to be frightened of. It works out very well, and it gives you what you are asking for.

She is your Mother, eternally your Mother. She loves you the most than anybody can love and She’s not going to give you any trouble. She’s just waiting for you to have your second birth. So there’s nothing to be frightened of anyone.

And also about gurus, you shouldn’t quarrel with me. If your guru is all right, I will myself write a nice letter to him. But if he is not all right, he has ruined your Kundalini, he’s ruined your Agnya, he’s ruined your chakras, then I have to tell you that something wrong with the fellow, because you do not know. Supposing there’s a policeman, he comes to your house and he says there has been a thief in your house. Do you get angry with the policeman? In the same way you should not be angry with me, because if your guru is a real guru, sat guru, then I would really worship that man, I’ll be really happy. But I have yet to come across – they are very few, very, very few.

So what’s the use of being identified with your guru? He never gave you your powers, he was just showing off his own powers, and was promising you that today you’ll become a frog, tomorrow you’ll become a bird and third day you’ll become a fish, and then amoeba, I think. You’ll end up as an amoeba, I believe!

(Comment from a yogini in Marathi)

Otherwise they – she’s saying, another thing they can tell you: if they don’t give you anything, they’ve taken away all your money and everything, that you must, you see, you must detach yourself from your money, your family, “Send your wife over to me, I’ll look after your wife, you be detached, you see. Give me all your money, everything very nicely.”  Still she’s saying that. Then also you say that “Still, sir, I have given you everything, still I haven’t got it.” So they’ll say, “Now you go to Himalayas. Otherwise that’s the reason, you’d better go to Himalayas. Give me your palatial building, I’ll live here very nicely. Give all the money that you have, and you go to the Himalayas. And you’ll be an unmarried man, that’s a better, you’d better divorce your wife. You see, she’s the one who is standing in your way.” And he sends you to Himalayas to freeze there and to die.

(Another comment from the yogini in Marathi)

She says, “Where is the pure person?” She says, “Among ten thousand, you are the only one.”

Even if they are not pure, they should not be sinister. You are much greater people than they are, because you are not realised, you do not propagate anything, you do not preach anything. These are not realised, nothing, they have no authority. They have nicely have their flags on and they are collecting money. Fundraisers!

All right, put your hands towards me again. Take out your sock, socks. No, alright, it’s all right.

Put both the feet like this, put your hands like that.

What’s it? You want some water?

Close your eyes please, close your eyes.

Now, the first thing that happens is if you watch your thoughts, there is no thought in your mind. That means it has crossed the Agnya.

Sahaj yogis must go in a chain. All of you hold each other’s hands, all of you each other’s hands you hold. Not you. The people who are realised already. You just hold each other’s hands, that’s all.

Put your hands like that, yes.

Close your eyes please, all of you. Please close your eyes. Are you getting cool breeze in the hand? No. Yes, close your eyes, it will work out. It has to work out, is the point.

It will work out, you just don’t worry. Some of the Sahaj yogis are getting more on the right, I think and less on the left hand. Should put their left hand towards me, right hand up, in case such a situation is there.

Feeling something?

Lady:  Hot.

Shri Mataji: Hot. It’s all right.

Make it straight. Not to tilt it higher or lower but make it straight. Straight neck. Make it straight. Not to tilt it backwards, just make it straightforward. Just like a normal sitting.

Those who have come for the first time, those who are getting cool breeze raise your hands, if you are getting cool breeze in the hand.

Good. Both the hands? Very good.

Please put down your hands. Left, left, not right so much.

Seeker: I’m getting in my left. There’s a problem in my right hand.

Shri Mataji: Right hand is a problem, what’s the problem?

Seeker: I keep getting constant spasms in my right hand. Just can’t control it.

Shri Mataji: Right hand is it? Alright, where is your father?

Seeker: In India.

Shri Mataji: You write to him quote often?

Seeker: Not really.

Shri Mataji: No? Now you promise me that you’ll go and write to him a letter. Alright? Just promise. Put your left hand on here, ye. And now you promise, put your right hand towards me. What are these rings you are wearing? Better take them out, is a better thing, to take them out for the time being; and also your kala take it out for a while; just for five minutes.

You are getting something cool in the hand? Nothing so far?

This gentleman here, are you getting any cool?

Seeker: It’s a bit warm in the right.

Shri Mataji: There only, not in the fingers?

 It will work out, it will work out.

What is he catching? Just see. Tell me.

Yogi: Vishuddhi.

Shri Mataji: Vishuddhi. You are smoking something?  Vishuddhi is very catching. Now can you take out? No, it’s alright, forget it. Forget it now, let’s see.

Seeker: I have taken one off.

Shri Mataji: Alright, it’s alright. Accha kala nikal dijiye (Hindi: Ok, remove the kala).

Seeker: It’s very tight.

Shri Mataji: Accha? (Really?) Better cut it out. Alright, put your hands towards me. Put your hand, left hand, here.

Since when are you getting this spasm?

Seeker: For a long time.

Shri Mataji: Since you have come to this country?

Seeker: Not really. I used to have difficulty in writing, but it has become over the years very generalised. I just can’t relax this hand at all. It’s in constant spasm.

Shri Mataji: Alright, just push it like that.

Still Vishuddhi is there, is it? Just come here Marcus, come. Just work out his Vishuddhi. This is Agnya and this and that. Now, have you been to any guru or someone? Just push it this, here. No?

Seeker: When I went to India I visited lots of yogis and panditjis (priests) and..

Shri Mataji: For this?

Seeker: Yes.

Shri Mataji: But not to any guru as such?

Seeker: No, not any guru as such.

Shri Mataji: She’s great, I tell you, she was teaching me and She was telling me that Nabhis are catching on both the sides. What about her, just tell me what are the chakras catching? Ah?

You’ve been to some guru? No one. Have you been smoking?

Seeker: Yes.

Shri Mataji: You too smoking. Are you alright? Are you getting cool breeze in the hand? Are you relaxed?

Seeker: Yes.

Shri Mataji: Keep your eyes shut. It’s the greatest thing that can happen to anyone, just keep your eyes shut. What about you? In both the hands you are now getting? Both the hands? Nicely. Good. What’s your name? What’s your name please?

Seeker: Nick.

Shri Mataji: Nick. What country you belong to? Cyprus. Cyprus are good people I must say! Very good!

And this lady comes from what country?

Seeker: England.

Shri Mataji: Great. From which part?

Seeker: Essex.

Shri Mataji: Very good. You have not gone to any guru or anyone I believe. Never? That’s good. So what do you do? You are a housewife?

Seeker: No a student.

Shri Mataji: Student of?

Seeker: Psychology.

Shri Mataji: (Laughing) Still I must say you have maintained yourself very well. Otherwise when the psychologists come here I have such a problem with them. They are themselves suffering from psychology!

(To a child) Yes, come here, come, come, come to me.

Let him feel the chakras which is catching. Are you better now? Not yet. Vishuddhi… Are you alright? Getting it? Good. What’s it? Left? Did you go to any guru? No one.

Smoking you also?

Seeker: Not much.

Shri Mataji: Not much. Put your hands there and one hand outside, just see. One hand outside like this. Good.

Better. Vishuddhi is terrible, both.

Are you better now? Started? Got it? Better now? Improving? Yes. It will work out. It will work out. What have you been smoking? Something wrong?

Seeker: Hashish.

Shri Mataji: Hashish?

You can feel the vibrations coming out. Agnya, Heart. Now? Nabhi, left.

Now how is it? How is your brother now Mark [Rossi]?

Mark Rossi: He’s still the same as far as I know.

Shri Mataji: He is out of intensive now? Then it’s alright. Better.

How do you find the gentleman sitting before you? Just see, yes, and the lady there.

They’re alright. You live in London?

Seeker: No, Essex. I still live in Essex

Shri Mataji: You have come all the way from Essex today?

Seeker: No, the college is in Stratford (London)

Shri Mataji: Oh, I see. In this London university?

Seeker: North East London Polytechnic.

Shri Mataji: Oh I see, I see.

Now, is better now? This gentleman, are you better?

Seeker: I don’t feel.

Shri Mataji: Anything whatsoever? Nothing?

Seeker: No.

Shri Mataji: Warm still? Alright, let it pass out.

What about him? Much better now? Alright, good.

Just see him, let’s try. Still left, left Vishuddhi. Left, here is left. You are the one who has really helped me the most of all, I tell you! You bring your friends also with you.

 What about her?

Yogi: Also the left. Right heart also.

Shri Mataji: He feels right heart, let’s help him.

Yogi: Also the Left Swadishthan.

Shri Mataji: Go and ask him to ask the question about Shri Rama.

Are there new people? Have they got Realisation?

Yogi: it’s very warm Mother

Shri Mataji: Warm? Put the left to the right, you’ll be all right.

These two are realised-souls, aren’t they? So they must, they must come and see here. Come and see for yourself, come along, one or two, come along. Come along, come along.

Put yourself into bandhan.

Now come along, make effort, yesterday you asked me, nah? Come along, make some efforts now. With this gentleman specially. Alright, try on her.

She too had hashish so better try on somebody else, now. Don, you don’t do on that.

What about you? Come along.

Don, allow these people to work on her. Come along, you, come along there. Be careful Don. Now, work on her, those people who have not had hashish.

Marcus had hashish!

Yogi: Yes. She smoked cigarettes too Mother.

Shri Mataji: Oh I see, so did you smoke cigarettes? Ah, you too? Cigarettes and hashish. What else? That’s all?

Seeker: Since when?

Shri Mataji, No, you have been smoking cigarettes and hashish.

Seeker: Today also.

Shri Mataji: Today also you smoked? Both are today also? Before just coming before here?

Seeker: No. Not just before coming here. I smoke cigarettes constantly.

 Shri Mataji: Constantly? Alright, you put him left to the right all of you, come along. You’ll be alright. Once you’ll find your Self you won’t smoke, at all. You’ll enjoy your Self very much. They all go up to this place.

Yogi: Her father died two weeks ago.

Shri Mataji: She has to tell the father that he shouldn’t worry about her.

Did you ask the question? Did you ask the question?

Now are you better? Not feeling much in the hands.

Seeker: No. A lot of warmth but not so much in the hands.

Shri Mataji: Alright. Still? Alright, just come, alright? Come.

Sit down, sit down, sit down.

Good. Better now?

Now, rub my foot. Now let’s see.

Seeker: Here?

Shri Mataji: Yes, rub it. Rub it hard. Really hard. Rub it hard. Hard, with your fingers. Hard.


Seeker: I don’t know by what comparison.

Shri Mataji: You too. Press with both the hands. Press with both the hands. Void is catching, Void, Void catches with this. Void, the Left Void.

Hah! Are you relaxing now?

Seeker: Yes. I was feeling very suspicious before.

Shri Mataji: You are suspicious of?

Seeker: And frightened.

Shri Mataji: Suspicious and?

Seeker: And frightened.

Shri Mataji: Frightened of whom?

Seeker: You.

Shri Mataji: Me? Why? I am not as bad as hashish is! Why are you frightened of me?

Seeker: I had another guru

Who is he?

Seeker: Maharaji

Shri Mataji: Who’s Maharaji this… you were not suspicious of him?

Seeker: I’m suspicious of everybody.

Shri Mataji: That’s correct. It’s good, it’s very good.

Seeker: It’s good to be suspicious of everybody?

Shri Mataji: No. You must know who is the right and who is the wrong type. If you are sensitive you will know yourself. What do you expect? Is to get your own powers, isn’t it? To become your Self, that’s what should help you – not all other tricks of giving experiences and this and that. You have to become your Self. Isn’t it? Like all others are.

Now, there’s nothing to be suspicious about me because I have not taken any money from you, nothing.

Seeker: No. I don’t want to be suspicious.

Shri Mataji: Nothing selling here. See? Alright? Now, you are asking for something great, something Self-realisation I am talking about, not experiences. It’s Self-realisation. You know? Now rub it on the Void, here.

Rustom, just see.

Better now is she?

Rustom: It went into the Left-Agnya.

Shri Mataji: Agnya? She’s never been to a guru she says.

Rustom: Very heavy like a line across her Left Swadishthan.

Shri Mataji: You did some pranayama also? Pranayama? Breathing?

Seeker: Breathing? Yes.

(Speaking to a child) Just see, just see! Is he alright? Is he alright? Really? Where is the problem? Come, come, tell me.

Rustom: Sahasrara catches he says.

He says, “I am doubting.” Suspicious.

Rustom: Sahasrara, heart.

Shri Mataji: Heart also? Hold your breath.

Seeker: Should I keep rubbing [your feet] Mother?

Shri Mataji:  Again hold your breath, hold your breath.

Rustom: The Sushumna as a whole it doesn’t flow.

Whole? How long were you his disciple?

Seeker: Four, five years.

Shri Mataji: And what did you get out of him? What did you get? Nothing.

Seeker: I never mistrusted him. Self-doubt. Doubt more than anything. I still don’t completely mistrust him.

Shri Mataji: You do not mistrust him.

Seeker: No, because I don’t know if he has done any harm and I don’t know if he does any harm. I don’t know.

Shri Mataji: He hasn’t said anything about hashish and cigarettes and why you smoke?

Seeker: Yes, he said I shouldn’t, it’s since when I was first his devotee I didn’t smoke.

Shri Mataji: Now you started smoking after becoming his devotee. So this is the achievement!

See, if you have found your Self then you don’t smoke anymore and you enjoy your Self so much, that you just don’t run away from your Self [that’s the] minimum of minimum, that should happen to you.

Rustom: Mooladhara. And his Kundalini doesn’t move. At least I can’t feel any movement. Sorry.

Shri Mataji: Doesn’t move? You see. This Raktabija’s problem

(end of audio)