Guru Puja, “The Declaration of Shri Mataji”. Dollis Hill ashram, London, England. 2 December 1979.
A month back, I told Rustom, that you must have, a Puja arranged, this Sunday. It’s a full moon day, and he asked Me what should you call is it a Guru Puja, or is it a Puja for Mahalaxmi, or Ganesha’s Puja. So I told him call it a Guru Puja. And he asked Me later on, much later – when I was going to India – that why not also have the Christmas Puja over here?
Today is a very, important day. Because, long time back, when Christ was just a child, He read from the Scriptures, and declared to the multitudes, that He was the Advent – the incarnation, who is the Savior. They believed that a Savior is going to come. Today, long time back, on a Sunday, He said, He declared that He was the Savior. That’s why today is the Advent Sunday. He had to live for a very very short time. So at a very young age He had to declare that He was the Advent. Now it is remarkable to see, that before this, no incarnation said publicly, that, they were incarnations. Rama of course, had forgotten that He was an incarnation. In a way, He made Himself to forget, played His maya upon Himself to become a complete human being – Maryada Purushottama and Shri Krishna also only told, one person Arjuna, just before he was to start the war. Abraham never said that He was the incarnation, though He was the incarnation of Primordial Master. Dattatreya Himself never said that He was the incarnation of the Primordial Master. With all these three forces, acting through innocence, came on this earth to guide, Moses never said that… though they knew He was great, He had overpowered Nature, but He never said that He was the incarnation.
At the time of Christ, one felt it was necessary to say otherwise people won’t understand. If at that time they had recognized Christ, there would have been no problem. But still, human beings had to evolve, further. Somebody had to cross the Agnya Chakra in the Virata, to go through that door. That’s why Christ came on this Earth. It is most surprising, that in this tree of Life, when the roots give out the shoot, and the shoot gives out the branches, and the branches give out the leaves, and the flowers also blossom out of the same tree, those who know the roots do not want to know the shoot, those who know the shoot do not want to recognize the flowers. This is typical human nature.
I never said about Myself. Because, it was felt, that human beings have now achieved another dimension of ego. Even worse, than at the time of Christ. May you blame anything, you can call it Industrial Revolution because you were away from nature, or whatever you may call it. But human beings had lost all contact, with reality. They were identified with artificiality, and to accept such a great reality is going to be impossible for them, that’s why I never said a word about Myself -,till of course some of the saints, told about Me, some of the possessed people also told about Me; and also people started wondering, that how the most difficult thing of Kundalini awakening takes place, with that speed in the presence of “Mataji”.
There was a temple in India and nobody knew about it, but they found that the ships which went near a particular spot, were drawn towards the shore. And it was difficult to ply them back and they had to put double force to take out of that attraction, and they did not know that there was some thing that was acting. They thought there was something wrong, with the depth of the sea. But, invariably it happened to many ships. Then they wanted to find out, after all what is happening to those ships, why all the ships suddenly start getting attracted towards the shore So they tried to find out, and when they went into the jungles they found a big temple, and on top of the temple was kept a huge mass of magnet.
So through rational understanding, people reach the point, that Mataji has to be something exceptional, because, nowhere in the scriptures written down anywhere, that such an incarnation came on this Earth – whose mere glance, even thought, can raise the Kundalini. Many saints, who are away from the madding crowd, sitting in the jungles, on the Himalayas, all know about it. Because their awareness is at a point, where they understand. They understand much more than you do, because you are still children, newly born. They are grown up.
But today is the day, I declare that I am the One who has to save the humanity. I declare I am the One who is Adishakti, who is the Mother of all the Mothers, who is the Primordial Mother, the Shakti, the Desire of God, who has incarnated on this Earth to give its meaning to itself, to this creation, to human beings, and I’m sure through My love and patience and My powers, I am going to achieve it.
I was the One who was born again and again, but now in My complete form and complete powers, I have come on this Earth, not only for salvation of human beings, not only for their emancipation, but for granting them the Kingdom of Heaven, the Joy, the Bliss, that your Father wants to bestow upon you.
These words are to be kept within the bounds of Sahaja Yogis only, for the time being. And today is the day of Guru Puja, not My Puja, but your Puja as Gurus. I anoint all of you as Gurus, and today I will tell you what I have bestowed upon you and what great powers you already have within you.
Among you, there are people who are still not been able to recognize. My announcement will work it out within them – the recognition. Without recognition you cannot see the play, without play, you cannot have confidence within yourself, without confidence you cannot become Guru, without becoming Guru you cannot help others, and without helping others you are not going to be in any way happy. So, to break the chain, is very easy, but to build the chain one after another is what you have to do. This is what you were all wanting to be. So, be confident, and be joyous, and be happy that all My powers will protect you, My Love – will nourish you, and My nature will fill you with peace and joy.
May God Bless You!
[the following was transcribed from an Mp3 recording of a tape in India]
Now I would like to give the books first of all. And then I’ll… about what you have got already within you. All weeping and crying should be over now. You have to wipe out the tears of others. Get out of your small shells and little problems, here and there.
First book, Kuli, can you give Me.
Where is the pen?
Yogi: …want a pen Mother?
Shri Mataji: I would like to write in Devalipi, because it’s a mantra, isn’t it? It has to be written in Devalipi your names, would be better than in English, though utility-wise English would be better, but from, from Sahaj Yoga point of view, I think, if I write in Devalipi it would be better and you will know it is your name.
So the first book. “Advent!” – by which we declare, the advent of your Mother, your own, very own Mother. Today, I would like to give to Gregoire, who has really worked very hard to write this book, and, I have tortured his life… and also Gavin, Jane, who have helped him such a lot, and Maureen who has helped him to type and read My funny handwriting which had mutilated all previous writings of Gregoire [Mother chuckles]. We have had a very nice time together, and now the book is ready. We should also be very thankful to Indian Sahaja Yogis, for giving all their assistance, to Gregoire, for the publication of this book. They have given the money and all the assistance. There are so many people who are to be thanked, but actually this is your own book. And the most important person whom you should thank is [unclear: WULEE?], or, Tony as you call him, because, he has taken the photograph, which turned out to be the best among all. He’s not a photographer, by chance he had taken a photograph, it’s such a sahaja photograph. And everybody said that this photograph should be… there. And everybody, not feeling jealous of anyone, have very sensibly behaved that the book should come out; and the involvement that everyone had; and they all helped…
Even the coming of book was so sahaja, that, first it would not come. It has come at a time when we needed it the most: it should not have come earlier, because we wanted advent date for this book. And, the coming of it was that, the ship people told Me that the books have arrived… and you have to collect the books, and we have to take all… customs clearance and all that. But then they told Me that surprisingly, the customs people did not ask anything; they did not even open the boxes; they didn’t want to know anything what was inside. They were all quite surprised. Normally, even if you say books they open it and see for themselves whether there are books or not, maybe something else coming in. And there was a niece of mine, who was there, who telephoned to us – that also spontaneously – and I told her such books are lying with such people, and just they arrived – it was that simple. And they t…
[Mp3 no.1 sound cuts off]
Should I write it here, or here Gregoire?. Here would…
This is the cover, I would like – just show them – to give to Gregoire, just show round, with the peacocks. Peacock is the… is the vahana of Saraswati.
Actually it is kept the other way round, you see?
Sahaja Yogi[softly]: I think…
Shri Mataji: Beg pardon, what is it?
Sahaja Yogi: [CHRIS?] was trying to explain what Shri Kartikeya was like.
Other Sahaja Yogi: He was just like Gregoire. [laughter].
Shri Mataji: Actually books are always done this way, you know? You can do it on the ground would be better. This way, and then is covered like that, you see? It’s always books are done.
Sahaja Yogi: Mother this way?
Shri Mataji: It’s on this way it comes up. See? So, they are kept. Hm, I think then they go round. Ya and, this is brought in… that side.. this way, and the pin must be put here or some sort of a thing. Actually they have a ribbon with it, attached, when they tie it up the book like that. This is called as grantha, you see, the one which is tied, grantha.
All these books must be kept, tied in a proper cloth, in this way. And before opening the book you must wash your hands – properly. It should not be kept in every place you feel like: must be kept in proper places. And the due protocol of the book must be kept. It is very important.
Which are the names? Which are the people?
Rustom: Gavin, your copy.
Shri Mataji: What is it?
Sahaja Yogi: We had to copy the […indistinct]
Shri Mataji: Alright. So to Jane, to… second to Rustom…
Rustom [interupting]: …Walter
Shri Mataji: Ah? [pause] This is the Guru Puja, I’m doing. [pause] Jane? There you go. Now I’m doing your one.
I’ll use it.
All of you must have your individual copies. That is very important. And as everybody has different vibrations, it must be treated with the same understanding that, you all should have your individual thing with you.
[Mother writes the names of all the Yogis in Devnagari in their copies of the books]
Let Me just finish the work, alright?
So now… Tony? What should I write? Tony or Kuli?
Shri Mataji: What’s your real name?
Shri Mataji: Anthony. Anthony. Anth…?
Shri Mataji: Anta….
Shri Mataji: Antonacis. -nakir, “r” is there? Nakir?
Tony: Ess. Nakis
Shri Mataji: N-a-k-i-s. Antonakis
Sahaja Yogini: that means live [LAND UPON?…unclear]
Shri Mataji: Yes I knew you had another… An…to…naa…kis, nakis.
Shri Mataji: Antonakis
Tony: Yes Mam
Rustom: N, A, I…
Shri Mataji: N, A, I, Naikis
Tony: No. An-to-na-kis
Maria: N, A, K, I, S.
Shri Mataji: Oh. Antonakis
Sahaja Yogi: Antonakis
Sahaja Yogi: So at last we got the truth here. [laughter]
Shri Mataji: Keece or Kiss
Shri Mataji: tokis. [long pause] Now, you must know the meanings of this:
“To My beloved son Antonakis
Now, who else? Tell Me the names now.
Sahaja Yogi: Barbara.
Shri Mataji: and Mark [long pause] May God bless you. Now. Maria. That’s your real name, Maria? Full name?
Maria: And the only one.
Shri Mataji: Only Maria. [pause] Go sit down. May God bless you.
Sahaja Yogi: David Spiro
Shri Mataji: David Spiro. [pause] [Mother asks in Hindi about the Surname being “Spiral?”]
Shri Mataji [while writing]: Spi-ro. Spiro. [pause] May God bless you
Rustom: Malcolm Mother. Malcolm.
Shri Mataji: Malcolm. Ma-la-kom
Shri Mataji: Malkom. [pause]
Shri Mataji: May God bless you. Patreeshia, Patricia
Shri Mataji: Patrisia
Shri Mataji: ta?
Shri Mataji: Patrisia, Patrisia.
Sahaja Yogini[softly]: C, I, A.
Shri Mataji: But it is TRa [rolled “R”] or Tra [soft “r”]
Rustom: Its TRa
Shri Mataji: Tee – Are – but you see in Hindi we have two.
Shri Mataji: PatRi, PatRisia, is correct? Patrici… Patricia, Patricia. [long pause] May God bless you.
Shri Mataji: Hm? Hester. It is… HÃ©-sta?
Sahaja Yogi: Hesta
Shri Mataji: Hestaa
Sahaja Yogi: Hesta. With an “a” no “r”.
Shri Mataji: Hesta
Yogi: H, E S, T A.
Shri Mataji: Tee. Ha?
Shri Mataji: “T” Hesta,
Rustom: Short “A.”
Shri Mataji: Hesta. [pause]. Hesta, May God bless you.
May God bless you. Now.
Sahaja Yogi: Harry.
Shri Mataji: hm?
Sahaja Yogi: Harry.
Rustom: Hare, is your name, ha?
Shri Mataji: Hari
Hari: Hari Jairam
Shri Mataji: Hari Jairam [long pause] May God bless you.
Rustom: You, Peter.
Shri Mataji: P, E, T, E, R. [Hindi regarding pronunciation of Peter’s name] [pause]
May God bless you.
Shri Mataji: Felicity.
Rustom: [Hindi] Usko apta hai Ma.
Shri Mataji: May God bless you.
Rustom: Philip… Philip
Philip: Spelt with one ell.
Shri Mataji: You have…?
Philip: Spelt with one ell.
Shri Mataji: What’s he say?
Rustom: [Hindi: about the spelling]
Shri Mataji: Philip.
Philip: P, H, I, L, I, P.
Shri Mataji: Philip. [pause] You can put some Music.
Rustom: Oh. Malcolm? Music.
Shri Mataji: May God bless you. Hm?
Shri Mataji: Allan.
Sahaja Yogis [recite mantras]: Mahasaraswati, Mahakali, Trigunatmika, Adi Kundalini Sakshat, Shri Adishakti Sakshat, Shri Bhagawati Sakshat, Shri Mataji Shri Nirmala Devi Namoh Namah.
Rustom: Om twam sakshat shri Ganeshaya Namaha
Sakshat, Shri Adishakti Sakshat, Shri Bhagawati Sakshat, Shri Mataji Shri Nirmala Devi Namoh Namah
I’ll say the names of all the deities of the Kundalini.
Shri Mataji: Now you pay attention to those deities within your Kundalini. You can sit down. And just pay attention: you know where are the… which are the deities on what chakras are.
Rustom: Om twam sakshat shri Ganeshaya Namaha
…Nirmalgauri kundalini mataya…
…Hasratali Fatima mataya…
…Karuna rasa sagaraya…
…Sitarama maryada purushottamaya…
…Vishnugranthi vibhedini shakti mataya…
…Radha Krishna purnavataraya…
…Yeshoda Rukmini vithalaya…
…Lalita chakra swaminishakti…
…Shri chakra swaminishakti…
…Hamsa chakra swaminishakti…
…Swaprakashaya mary and jesus…
…Mahakali Shakti bhairavaya…
…Mahasaraswati Shakti hanumantaya…
…Mahalakshmi Shakti mahavishnuve…
…Ekadashaya Shakti rudraya…
…Rudra granthi vibhedini Shakti mataya…
…Sahasrara swamini moksha [pra]dayini nishkalankaya mahamaya Mataji Shri Nirmala devi…
…Ardabindu Shakti mataya…
…Bindu Shakti mataya…
…Valaya Shakti mataya…
…Sadashiva adishakti mataya…
Sakshat, Shri Adishakti Sakshat, Shri Bhagawati Sakshat, Shri Mataji Shri Nirmala Devi Namoh Namah
Shri Mataji: You did not say Vishnu mantra.
Rustom: I said [unclear]
Shri Mataji: You said Mahavishnu….it’s alright. When you say Vishnu Shesha also you can say where the Nabhi is then say Vishnu Lakshmi and Surya Chandra. See they are also chakras, Surya Chandra. So the Ida Pingala Nadi Shakti you can also say, so that [unclear] …it now…[unclear].
Rustom: Om twam sakshat Shri Lakshmi Narayana Sheshaya Namaha
…Surya Chakra Swamini Shakti…
…Chandra Chakra Swamini Shakti…
Shri Mataji: See? How it’s… [unclear] You see? You can say Chandra Mandal Madhyastha. Surya Mandal Madyastha. Means this superego and supraego.
Rustom: In the… they say Bhanu Mandal Madhyastha
Shri Mataji: hm. Bhanu Mandal…
Rustom: OK. Om twameva sakshat Shri Chandra Mandala Madhyasthaya Namaha
Om twam sakshat shri bhanu Mandala Madyasthaya namaha
Shri Mataji: [Hindi about Ida and Pingala] Ida and Pingala bolo.
Rustom: Om twameva sakshat Shri Ida Nadi Swamini Shakti Namaha
Om twam sakshat Shri Pingala Nadi swamini Shakti Namaha
Shri Mataji: Sushumna Nadi.
Rustom: Om twam sakshat shri Sushumna Nadi Swamini Shakti Namaha.
Shri Mataji: That’s better. [inaudible] Much better now?
Rustom: There’s also Sarva Ida Granthi Vibhedini Shakti.
Shri Mataji: Oh. Ida Granthi Vibhedini is good.
Rustom: Om twameva sakshat shri Sarva Ida Granthi Vibhedini Shakti Mataya Namaha
Shri Mataji: hm.
Rustom: Om twam sakshat shri Sarva Pingala Nadi Granthi Vibhedini Shakti Namaha.
Shri Mataji: hm.
Rustom: Om twam sakshat shri Sarva Sahasrara [sic] Granthi Vibhedini Shakti Namaha
Shri Mataji: Sushumna Nadi
Rustom: Om twameva sakshat shri Sarva Sushumna Granthi Vibhedini Shakti Namaha.
Om Shri Mahaganapataye Namaha, Shri Saraswati Mataya…
Shri Mataji: …Now before doing any puja, one has to do Ganapati Puja, because that is the first thing is holiness… is innocence. So we have to, first of all, establish our holiness within ourselves, before we do any worship… or the innocence within us. You have to worship our innocence within us. So all the cunningness, should be left… outside.
Rustom: Om Shri Mahaganapataye Namaha
Shri Saraswati Mataya Namaha
Shri gurubhyo namaha
Kuladevata bhyo namaha
[someone coughs]…eksthaanadevata bhyo namaha
Shachipuram dharabhyam namaha
Kalka parashurame Bhyo namaha
Matru pritru byam namaha
Adityadi nava graha devta bhyo namaha
Sarve bhyo deve bhyo namaha
Sarve bhyo brahmane bhyo namaha
Etat karan pradam devata bhyo namaha
Avi ghanam astu…
Shri Mataji: You’re not registering. Can you make it loud speaker? …the loudspeaker. You see because you can’t make…[unclear] You see?
Rustom: [Hindi] I’ll put it in here. It’s ok I’ll put it in my lap.
Shri Ma Bhagavato, Mahapurushasya, Vishnu Agnya Parvartam Mansya Adi Brahmano Dvitiya Parabe Vishnu Pade, Shri Shwetvarakalpe Vayvaswat Manvantare Englandeshe, Europekhande, Londonnagare, Thamesnadiye, Uttaratire Kaliyuge Kalipratamcharine, Ash…
Shri Mataji: Listen to it carefully, now…
Shri Mataji:…See now see now what is it. It is localizing the point, you see? Now, now say again. Carefully.
Rustom: Kalki Avatare, shalivahan shake. vaganvartamane, anand twam sarvantsare…
Shri Mataji: Savatsare
Rustom: Sarvantsare. Hema rutu… Don’t know what Mase, Mataji, can’t find that.
Shri Mataji: Mase is… [Marathi question: Kun sa Mase wa?]
[yogi answers in Marathi]
Shri Mataji: [Marathi: BHAIDRABAD?]
Marathi Yogi: [MAAG, MAAG..unclear].
Shri Mataji: Hm? Maag.
Rustom: Maag, Maagmase, shuklpaash…
Shri Mataji: Pakshe
Rustom: Pakshe. [Hindi meaning “Mother, what is the “Tita”: KYA TITA MATAJI? KYA TITU? ]
Shri Mataji: Ti tau ayes purnima.[Hindi meaning “the tita is Full Moon.]
Rustom: [Hindi: meaning good/ok:] Acha. [Sanskrit:] Purnima titau… Madhu yavasare, Aadidya divas dhanuvaasare, nakshatre, vishnu yoge, vishnu…
Shri Mataji: Kshatra, nakshatre ye to du.
Rustom: Ah, pit dhanu bha
Shri Mataji: Dhanu.
Rustom: Dhanu, ah, dhanu, dhadu… ah
Shri Mataji: This is Sagittarius.
Shri Mataji: See, we are putting the whole thing, where are we having the puja, you see? so you have to find the location and complete that in London, where the River Thames flows, and in the south…
Rustom: In the north.
Shri Mataji: Or, in the north of London, and then at this time. And… what is the era, and what is the month; what is the year; and what is the constellation, is Sagittarius. and what is the titi is the… today is the full moon day… Like that, you see the complete location is being said.
Shri Mataji: This is to, inform the Gods.
Rustom: Vishnu yoge, vishnu karane, London-ashramastite, vertamam chandrastite, Shri Surya Stite, Devgura shesha, shivgrahe shivyatav ata rashishtaan-stite, shiv-satsu-evam guna visheshan na visheshtayam shubha punya titaau.
Now we say… make a vow, so you have to repeat this after Me.
Shri Mataji: Yes, you all have to repeat.
Rustom: [after each name the Yogis repeat:] Mama… aatmana… sarvadharmaash… shastrakla… falapratyartang… aasmakang… sarveshang… sahajyogi-kutambanam… kshem… starya… vijaya… abhaya… ayu… arogya… aishwarya… abhivrudyatam… dwipada… chaturpad… sahitanang… … shantyartang… punyatang… pustyatang… tushtyatyang… samastha… mangalavapyade… samasta… abyudayartang… paramchaitanyang… prapyatang… samasta-sakal-sahajyoginam… baadas-shantyatang… eshtakamsam… siddhyatang… kalpuktafalang… aavapyatang… yatashaktya… yata-gyanang… yata-militog-chadravay… dhyaanavahang… madi-shokoktchar… pujam… karishye…
[MP3 no.2 ends]
What have you got and what are your powers?
[Puja seems to be underway. Shri Mataji is talking with the yogis.]
If you say the mantra “You are the Mahat Ahankara.” Mahat means the primordial, the big and Ahankara is the Ego. It goes out. Just say that.
Sahaja Yogis: Om twameva sakshat, Shri Mahat Ahamkara Sakshat, Shri Adi Shakti Sakshat, Shri Bagavati Sakshat, Shri Mataji Shri Nirmala Devi Namoh Namaha.
Shri Mataji: Receding back, hm?…Just settle down. Hm! Now receding, that’s much better.
Sahaja Yogi: Where’s the Bowl the metal thing which was sent to be cleaned.
Shri Mataji: Better? Still. Quite a lot.
… We are talking of Christ. He’s the one who is sitting down there to control our ego. To dissolve it. Talking of Him. Christians have to be absolutely egoless if they think they are Christian. I mean those who follow Christ have to be egoless. Actually Sahaj Yogis are the real Jews are the real Christians are the real Hindus, are the real Muslims are the real Sikhs – because they’re not fanatics.
Rustom: Nabhi’s releasing.
Shri Mataji: Yes they are
[Rustom discusses in Hindi with Shri Mataji about doing a Mahalakshmi Puja]
Rustom: Gregoire do you want to do the Mahalakshmi Puja? Gregoire and Jane, Gavin, Tony.
Shri Mataji: [… GO DO IT?] all of them.
Sahaja Yogi: It’s [DEBRA?]
Shri Mataji: Lets see
Sahaja Yogi: Maureen?
Rustom: All the people who did the book Mother, I thought I would get to do the Puja
Shri Mataji: No-no-no…[noise on microphone]… as it is you have got the book as well as the Puja. Those who have got the book should not [two words unclear] who haven’t got it should.
Rustom: Not got it, but those who did the book Mother.
Shri Mataji: Oh did the book is a good idea. That’s a better idea. Alright…. I mean: I thought those who got the book. Those who did the book must, who else is there?
Various yogis: Maureen, Gregoire, Tony
Rustom: [Those are the people who did the book?] Who did the photograph?
Shri Mataji: Come along Tony, come along come
Sahaja Yogi: Ok Gregoire can you come along. [microphone moved]
Rustom: Om, Shri Maha…
Shri Mataji: What about your brother, Matt? [name not clear] He did the drawing.
Various yogis: Yes I thought of him Mother. Is he here? Patt?
[Rustom reads shlokas while Shri Mataji explains how to decorate kumkum on Her feet]
Shri Mataji: Put a line here. Put a line. Then, beyond the line you paint the whole thing. Now. Get two more unmarried. Hesta where are you? Yes come along. Now you boys are to go away. Let them come. Then you see the married will have to come – five of them – for My sari. Alright? Come along.
Shri Mataji: You draw a line, first of all. Here. Now you draw a line and you don’t go beyond that line. No no not. But with one finger,one finger. Now you can use another finger.
[Shloka comes to an end followed by 5 min of quiet while Mother’s feet are decorated]
Shri Mataji: Yes. It’s alright. Doesn’t have to look… Because we are going to put something now. Give one to them. …two sides it has got… That is mangalsutra. [necklace symbolic of a married lady] somebody, some married lady has to do that
Shri Mataji: Jane.
You can open it. [referring to toe-ring]
Rustom: Margy you can open it, its just pressed apart. Pat. Ask Pat for the Garland.
Shri Mataji: You should, pull it down further with that finger. [3 words inaudible] This should be in front. You should see the thing coming… you see the ruby should come on this finger, it’s a double-sided one. That’s correct. Now this one, little down, press it a little.
Shri Mataji: Call somebody who’s married. Sahndya, you can come along. Married women.
Sahaja Yogi: [inaudible]…hands…?
Shri Mataji: Hands? Married women will do My hands.
Ya. Come along, come here.
Rustom: Towel. Pass me the towel. [Hindi]
Shri Mataji: [Marathi] You know how to do Swastik? [Marathi, directions for decoration of Hands] You see beyond this line, you have to put it on. With the right hand, with the right hand. All through. [Marathi] You draw the line like this Maria. Correct, now, you complete, you see, on the sides also. No-no: sides of the fingers.
Rustom: You see the whole finger must be red. So that no white can show up.
Shri Mataji: White, the white side of the finger. Backside. Frontside. Hm! See, how it’s improving, see? [Marathi] Good. Thank you. Like this [3 unclear words]. Is alright. Now. [Marathi]
Peggy? You come here. One more married lady is wanted. Peggy has to be there. Peggy come here. Six and seven? Yes come along. Pam is married too. How many here? You can put two and let Me also have two. Mary? Come along. Come, come, come. You have to put them together otherwise they’ll break there.
Sahaja Yogini: Put three?
Shri Mataji: Yes, in My hands.
Rustom: Just put one on each.
Shri Mataji: Press My hand. Good. Now, you sit down here. Yes. Put [unclear] red on My feet. Right? Come along, put some red one My feet. Right hand. With all your fingers, all your fingers, come now. Good. Rub it here. Now on… [unclear]… Better now? Both the hands.
Sahaja Yogini: Both the hands?
Shri Mataji: Yes. Good. May God Bless You. Is good. Come along. Both the hands. [unclear, sounds like YOU TWINKLE?] your fingers. Now. Half the [unclear]. [DO?] you make the line again. You see you are [CROSSING?] make the line. That’s it. Stick to the line. Alright. It’s good now. Now do this one, also. Take out, alright.
Feeling better now? Leave it here. Now, let’s see. Little hot. Hm?
Keep the line Hm? Alright. It’s better now! Hard, rub it hard, very hard. Rub it very hard with your hands like that.
How are you now. Alright. Keep the line now. This line must be re-[FORMED or DRAWN]. Alright, now, this one.
… Now everybody could not come, doesn’t matter, for everyone they are doing it. You must think it’s a symbolic thing, alright? So you do not differentiate. See if I touch something by My finger, I don’t say I touch it by finger, I say I touch it. Understand that? That’s how it is. ‘Cause everybody cannot do it: you need too much time. Now. Done. [HINDI WORDS] The girls who are left will just come along. All the girls first of all.
Rustom: Kumkum acha hoon [is the kumkum alright?]
Shri Mataji: [Hindi words] All the girls who are left, Felicity and others also. Anna come along. Come along Anna, you come along. All those who didn’t may go. Yes now, let them come along now. Those who have been here, come along all of you. Let them give one by one?
Rustom: Kumkum? Kumkum isn’t there. I’ll…
Shri Mataji: Take this, in your hand, alright? Now. You’ll give Me, out of…
Rustom etc: [Hindi]
Shri Mataji: For the lower portion…No, no, kumkum itself
Rustom: Where’s kajal. But kumkum we have Mataji.
Shri Mataji: Where it is?
Sahaja Yogi & yogini: There, somewhere there.
Shri Mataji: All here. [NAY?] there must be the lower portion of this also, that has got kumkum.
[soft talking. Shri Mataji directs the decorations of Kumkum & Kajal. Someone takes some Photos. Turmeric/Haldi is requested. ]
Shri Mataji: Put on the right hand only on the right hand…
…You have again gone to the previous condition. Get over it. It’s nothing serious. Is very simple. Now. Alright?…
Let him go and get the books now. How many more?
Rustom: We shall need at least another thirty.
Sahaja Yogi: At least…
Shri Mataji: Bring the box, I think.
Sahaja Yogi: Eleven books here
Shri Mataji: If you take Marcus, take… bring the book….[UNCLEAR] he will take them back. Marcus, if you go with him you can bring it, but bring it fast, you see?
Marcus: Thank you, Mother.
[END OF TAPE 1 SIDE A]
[TAPE 1 SIDE 2]
[Yogis sing Aarati Nirmala Mata, Saba Ko Dua, Maha Mantras (spoken), Lords Prayer, Allah Hu Akbar (x16)]
[microphone is moved]
…[OKIST AND?] everybody had such terrible colds, that I also got a little bit of it. So, that’s one thing, and, if you want I can write it down for you and you can copy it. So “how to cure colds and prevent colds [NEXT TIME or THAT’S…unclear]
Rustom: We can tape it Mataji.
Shri Mataji: I would say better to take [THEM AND BE COMFORTABLE?], alright?
So the thing that I want you really to know is what you have got and what are your powers, that is much more important. Now (has he come back, Peter? Not yet. [Hindi question to Rustom][noise on mike]…talk about it? Should I tell you? Now, Alright?
Sahaja Yogi: [unclear] [THE BEST KIND OF TECHNOLOGY?]
Shri Mataji: You can tape this. Sit-down sit-down sit-down sit-down sit-down. Ha. Mm.
The other day I told you about shambhavopaya and nishaktopaya. These are two methods of… [cleansing people?]. One is by which you cleanse people -,very few of them – you take a handful of them and go on cleansing them, so their chitta is completely cleansed, all their five elements are cleansed and… then the Kundalini is raised and people get realization. That’s called as Shambhavopaya, in which …your personality is cleansed out completely. Another is Shaktopaya, I said where there is Shakti, which, makes your Kundalini rise, whatever may be the situation, and then looks after the cleansing. So, in our Sahaja Yoga, we have used the second part because there is no time left for Shambhavopaya. There it would be impossible to do it.
So in Shaktopaya, normally people… what we do is Shaktipath, is to make their power, that is Shakti, to fall upon another one, like the reflection. Or, as we say, ‘the light is falling on us.’ So, they let their power, or their Kundalini’s power, fall on to the power of other’s Kundalini and then gradually raise it. But for that, human beings as they are, they have their very laborious methods, for that also. Is that theyfirst, they will choose your, what is the problem of Kundalini. So, they’ll go through all your history, find out what sort of parents you have had and this and that, what kinds of dreams you have; they analyze you completely. And then also they find out what kind of diseases you could have had. For example, anybody who has got, say, eye’s trouble, or trouble with the nose, or trouble with the throat, or with the stomach and all kinds of things, are avoided. So you can imagine how many of us would fit into that category. And… then they would, also find out what sort of life they have led and what sort of parents they have got. Mostly, it was done also to people who, actually at a very young age, went to the Gurus and asked for this Shaakta thing – Nishaktipath.
Now, because of Me, it has become very simple, as you know is the Shaktipath, that what you have to do now is Shaktipath, means, to throw your light onto others. ‘Shakti’ is power and ‘path’ means to make it fall. So, your Shakti can now fall onto anybody’s Kundalini and it can rise. Now, it was a very, very difficult thing. They said only person who is a ‘Veetaraga’, the one who has conquered all his ‘raaga’ – ‘raaga’ means any attachment – all the attachments – the one who has conquered. He’s without any attachment, he’s completely detached in life, can only do the Kundalini rising. So first of all, ‘Deeksha’ has to be given, is initiation. That you have already got. The day you came to Me you got the Deeksha. You do not realize, that… how it happens. Such a lot of things have happened to you, telescopically, that you do not realize how many things have happened to you. So, only for Deeksha, you see, a person is taxed quite a lot. I mean, you have to look after your Guru quite a lot, and you have to take some fruits and things like that. Money also some of these nonsensical people take, but that doesn’t matter, but even there is, some ‘Dakshina’ has to be given, because, see, Guru has to be looked after by the ‘Chelas’.
The Guru is after all, is not at all attached to your wealth or to anything that you give. But it is the duty of the Shishyas [disciples] to look after the Guru, and that’s why a little money is also… was to be given, to a Guru. I mean, of course they are now misusing the whole stuff, because the Guru has to live somewhere; he has to have a house and, all these things. So a little money was also given, called as Dakshina. The whole thing is now so misinterpreted and has been taken to such a nonsensical limit, that people are just making it an enterprise. But the Guru had to be something, of that level, who would raise the Kundalini. And that Guru was ‘Veetaraga’, means the one who is, lost all attachment of the world – absolutely unattached. Who’s chitta has been cleared so much, that there is no greed left in him, there is no temptation left in him. There is only forgiveness in the person. Such a person was regarded as a ‘Veetaraga’, and when such a person, raised the Kundalini he could. Only Kundalini could be commanded by only such rare people.
So, first of all, you have got the diksha [initiation] of a Guru without any introduction. So, the diksha you have got. You have got the maha diksha also. First is the diksha. Then, what is the maha diksha? The second maha diksha is that you are given a mantra, only one name is given, otherwise, normally. But this mantra is also to be taken out, because, the Guru, if he knows- I mean, these Gurus did not even know what chakras you are catching, just imagine! So, they used to consult your horoscope. “You have come at such and such time to me,” say, “today you have come to see me. Now what is your horoscope? So, what must be your trouble? Under what nakshatra – constellation – you were born? What was the name of your parents? Then, there’s a big science about it: they used to count from A-B-C-D like that, and reach a point where they would find the words. What is the second word, what is the third word, like that, and then they used to consult, it’s a big shastra [science]. And after consulting that they would find out what is the chakra catching in you. And then they would give you a name, “Alright, say Rama.” You go on saying “Rama, Rama”, till your right heart chakra is cured. This may take two years, three years, maybe two lives, maybe a hundred lives – you carry on with one mantra “Rama, Rama, Rama”, always. But this was to be done with all those consultations of your constellation and everything, your family, house, everything, and then to be brought to that point where the chakra is caught up.
Now, supposing, your four chakras are caught up… [Yogini speaks in Marathi & Shri Mataji replies briefly in Marathi.]
Because, you see, whatever is in the horoscope denotes what is the trouble you are having, isn’t it? Or what troubles you’ll be having – physical, only, to begin with. So, they would know through your Kundalee, means your horoscope, what was the trouble you are having. Supposing you are having a trouble in your stomach, so they would go round and round and round and found out one mantra for the stomach. Because, directly they cannot find out.
Like the scientist, you see. Scientist, how they find out things? See, supposing you go to the doctor: he will take out your eyes, wash it nicely, put it back, say “eyes are alright.” Then he’ll take out your teeth, make artificial teeth, jam them in saying that your teeth were alright [Shri Mataji laughs]. He’ll take out your ears, fix up something new, artificial, say it’s alright, take out your heart, examine it, put another one there. It’s like this, you see in the same way they used to do it, because, they were groping in the dark. As you people know about chakras, they did not know what are the chakras catching. So, you can imagine, what a maha, maha, maha diksha you have got now.
First is you have got a diksha; the day your Kundalini rises is the diksha. Then you get your Realization. This is out of question, they can never talk in one breath. You are kept hanging in the air, you see, all the time, upside down – just like bats in the night, you see? Then they would consult other things like, they would see what kinds of friends you keep, to what people you are attracted, so the temperaments they will see. From that also they will judge. May give you another mantra.
So, these mantras you go on sitting and [for] hours together with them, all the time, reciting these mantras without paying attention to your other needs. And this was, when the mantra was achieved, they used to call it “All right. The mantra is ‘siddha’ [established] now for you.” Means now this mantra you can use for somebody else, means only Rama’s mantra you could use, just imagine!
Now, what have you got it? You have got your Realization – alright. But Realization means you have got the complete knowledge as to what mantra is to be made for, any chakra whatsoever. You can coin your own mantras.
Then you also have got the power to know all the chakras which are needing the help. You’ve got power to raise the Kundalini of other people. You have got power to fix the Kundalini onto Sahasrara if it is falling down. You’ve got power to cleanse the chakras of the other people and your own. You’ve got power to fix the chakras also by giving it a bandhan. You’ve got power to protect yourself from all negativity through your bandhan. You have got power, to direct your attention to any place by which you can know about anyone who needs your help.
You have got power to feel the problem in the collective, also. Like, what’s wrong with London? Put your hands. What’s wrong with London? Like this, like this, Frank, never towards Me, dangerous.
Rustom: Left Heart very strong.
Shri Mataji: Left heart.
Sahaja Yogini: Right Heart.
Rustom: And Right Heart.
Shri Mataji: And Right Heart, that way, everything, but minimum left heart.
Sahaja Yogi: And Right Swadishthan.
Shri Mataji: Right Swadishthan.
Now, you’ve got a language which describes something. See, you’ve got the language to these seven, you said “left heart.” You have not hurt anyone by saying that. You Londoners are catching on left heart, means what? That means you are going against God. You are not interested in the Spirit, you are materialists. You are egoistical. You do not care for your Spirit. You are trying to harm your Spirit, you are drunkards. You are going to ruin yourself in drinking. But all this you don’t say. You just say: “Your left heart is catching” finished.
You don’t even say that you should do any forgiveness and all that. You only just put your hand like this, and ask for the forgiveness of all the Londoners on the left heart. And they are forgiven and then they drink more and drink more and have a worse heart.
So, all these powers you have got now is to raise the Kundalini and to remove the obstructions in the Kundalini. If there’s somebody’s Agnya Chakra would be caught up, the Guru would not remove his Agnya Chakra, fearing that his own Agnya Chakra would be caught up.
So, they had to first do the mantras to be “siddha”. “Siddha” means, the one which is proved now – effective. Your every mantra is effective. You take the name of the deity and your mantra is effective, it’s already Siddha. Like a bundle it has got everything into it, you open it and you get it.
If somebody’s any chakra is catching and you just say the mantra and finished. And you have knowledge of all the mantras and you know what it is. And you have all the knowledge and it is so secret that others do not know. Even if you do not take the names, you just point at, everybody knows what’s the matter, where to go, what to say. So, though it is so much secret, it is so much understood between you. See the homogenous understanding between us is we know what is what. And then we do not feel bad about ourselves and about others. Though I say that your Mr. E-G-O is big, nobody hits Me back. At the time of Christ, it was impossible to take the name of E-G-O. Now you can say, and you can see also clearly your ego, your super-ego, your nonsense, this, that, everything you can see.
Even if somebody, has the power, say is a born-realized person, he doesn’t know a word about how to raise the Kundalini. He cannot raise the Kundalini unless and until he has become a Sahaja Yogi! So those born-realized who think no end of themselves should know that they have to become Sahaja Yogis, otherwise they are not effective; they cannot be Kriyavati – they cannot go into action.
So, all these things you have got within yourself, that you have the full knowledge. about the deities. You know why they get angry; what is the problem; by what sin they get angry. Only if I say, “Don’t Commit Sin”, finished. you’ll say, “What is a sin?” Then if you say that “don’t commit this,” but now it is not only that, but you try some tricks, and you’ll have it. There’s a… compulsory bandhan on you, of your Mother. If you try to drink, you’ll vomit. If you do anything wrong, your stomach will go out. If you try to avoid Sahaja Yoga, you’ll have to be there. Because, though you are not feeling it, you have felt, inside yourself, the charm of Sahaja Yoga.
But, there is a group of people, still, who have been realized and who are not, yet there. Now what is the difference between the two is? Very simple – is the recognition. Those who have not recognized Me, will not be blessed. They’ll be going round and round and round. So it is necessary to recognize. Now there are some people, like… I’ll say, very good example is, Shirdi Sainath’s disciples are there. Now, he is no more. So they believe in him. Now where is he? They don’t want to believe in the present incarnation, they want to believe in something that is dead, they believe in Rama, they’ll believe in Christ. Most of the Christians have this problem. Even they will relate Me only to Christ. If I cannot relate Myself to Christ they cannot be in Sahaja Yoga. Or they’ll relate Me, only to Moses, or to someone like that. You have to live in the present, and you cannot conceptualize Me Your concepts are limited supposing you were born here. You would be Christian. But if you are born in India you would be a Hindu. If you are born in China, you would be Chinese, with your eyes like that. You could have been anything, so, when your misidentification starts working, immediately you know!…that you are misidentified, because vibrations will stop. So the group of people which are in between – the people, who are not yet settled down fully into Sahaja Yoga, who are not fully empowered, are the people who cannot recognize. And they feel very proud about it sometimes that “we cannot recognize.” It’s foolishness.
Immediately your vibrations will start flowing as soon as you recognize. And the – such group of people, are the people who are coming from various sources of… we can say various sources of other Gurus and things like that.,Then there is a problem about them. And such people, when they come to Sahaja Yoga, they get their realization.
I’m generosity I should say. They all get their realization whatever may be the case. Even the other day we had a prostitute there, she also got the realization. And Sahaja Yoga also gives a very long rope. You do not lose your vibrations easily, if you get them properly. But what happens just after Sahaja Yoga: being the light, you start seeing all your defects within yourself. Then you want to deny Sahaja Yoga. Some people start getting tingling. Some people normally feel alright but in My presence they start shaking, or going into contortions. As soon as some people see Me, you have seen, that they become heated up; they get pain in the stomach – because, when you face the light you start facing yourself. And you do not want to face yourself. The main thing is those who are not yet steady in Sahaja Yoga, are not willing to face themselves. If they would face themselves they would correct themselves so fast, because there is light, you do not identify yourself with your defects. You are the doctor, you have the light and you operate. Also you know how to operate. If you just decide on this point that “I’m going to face myself, let me see who I am,” all these defects will run away.- but you do not want to face it. And that’s why those who get realization also don’t want to come to it. Those who also get cool breeze, they don’t think much of it. Because if they think much of it they have to give up their ego, with which they are identified all these years. Moreover they will have to see themselves. So, they say “No, I’m not better, I am tingling and this is happening, there are needle and pins in My body, and that is…, how can I be? It is not helping me. Sahaja Yoga is taking me backwards.” They’ll start blaming the Sahaja Yoga for it, instead of seeing to people who have improved.
But whom are you blaming? You are blaming something that is going to save you. You are blaming your Savior. Is better to see your own problems, your own defects and come up. To be very kind to yourself is this: that…you get rid of all these serpents and scorpions and all those, other things that are hanging around and just become pure. And the light has come. In this light you should start seeing what is the truth. Then your misidentifications will drop out and your real identification will be established. Otherwise it cannot be done. You must learn to face yourself, never justify. Now some people have a habit of justifying even their son, or their brother, or wife or husband. You are not helping them by that. Then these negative people have a thing to go together. Always two negative will join together, to put up a show. I’m surprised we don’t even have any union here. See otherwise we can have “negative people’s union, against Mataji.” I mean you could be, facing like that. Because [YOU or THEY, not clear] always combine and, there is a big fraternity among negative people, big fraternity! Because, you have seen, that, those who are robbers, they always combine together. They are very friendly. They keep all the secrets. But two good people, if they combine, the whole world can be changed. So, you must understand that try to go to a person who is positive. Otherwise you cannot develop your Sahaja Yoga. Who talks negatively: you do not go near them.
Now, in this country, there’s another group of people. Because you are going to be Guru tomorrow, I am telling you all types. They do not want to face themselves, but there are many ways by which they avoid it. One of them is: as soon as they get realization, they start analyzing it. You give them anything, they’ll analyze. I mean in this country, they think they can analyze everything! I don’t know from where did they get this idea. Maybe this… scientist or maybe these psychologist, must have – other intellectuals, so-called – they might have given this idea.: that you take everything, this-is-this-because-of-this. I mean you don’t even have your eyes opened. You are such little babies still. How can you analyze all these things? So you start analyzing everything. Why this has happened, why that has happened! Once you start analyzing, you lose everything… Start talking about it, analyzing about it. What you have to do is to receive it, assimilate it, take it more and more. Expose yourself. Do not find faults, with Sahaja Yoga, but know that there are faults with you which can only be corrected through Sahaja love. There are people who even come on Me. “Why didn’t you do like this, Mother? Why didn’t you do like that?” I think I know My job very well. They try to teach Me also. “You should have done like this, you should have done like that.” Whichever way you do, if somebody is jack-in-the-box, he’ll always come up, because that’s the nature of the person. So you change that nature, “Remove your springs a little bit. Settle down.” And these spring are nothing but this analytical business. Such people you will meet many.
So how to approach these people? What I have done about these analytical people, that is what you have to do with them. Now, listen very carefully. You give realization to somebody. Alright? And the person feels the cool breeze in the hand. Now he starts saying, “Now, so what! I feel, so what?” Now you tell him, that “you did not get them by thinking, did you? Or through analysis?” “No.” “You never had them before?” “No.” “Then you’ve got it now… Now what are these? You explain.” You cannot explain, so it is, something that has happened to you beyond your thinking power… Is a higher power than your thinking. You see, they… Thoughtless means they think he’s a mad cap. You see? If you talk thoughtless awareness, they think,… “Oh, that means you don’t think, means you are easily… primitive.” They think you are primitive if you do not think. It has happened through a power, which is much higher than you! By thinking what have you done? By thinking: you have cut your noses, cut your eyes, cut your hands, everything you have cut. And now you are going to have a big war. Wonderful thinking. So you tell them, “by thinking you never got it and this is some higher power.” Talk of higher things – that has given you this. So if you have to be in that higher power, this lower power of your thinking you put it down a little. That’s how they’ll come round. If you try to say, “oh don’t think,” they will say, “What? Don’t think means it is not even thinkable. I mean it is that useless!” And this is to tackle these people who are egoistical, and who think, and who would not even accept even if they get cool breeze. So gradually, you help them.
Then for a guru, as you are now, you have all the knowledge, all the power and everything. But what we lack, is confidence… and we have inertia within us. I don’t know, how this inertia is going to get out. You know sometimes, people who are that inert, they also have a use, and they are put in the canons, you see, and blasted in a circus, so they can show their feats. They are so inert that nothing can disturb them. But, you are My children. I have made you after the image of Jesus Christ, of Shri Ganesh. All their powers are available to you. And this is one point I fail sometimes I don’t know, how to remove your inertia. Because, you have not practiced Sahaj Yoga. You have not gone into any practice. You got it very easily cheaply. You do not understand its value. So you just want to have as a side track, you know? You have to discipline yourself, unless and until you discipline yourself, I leave it to your freedom, because I have always believed in the freedom of My children, because I think they are not that low type, that I should put freedom on them as a, sort-of-a bar, that they should not use their freedom. You’re absolutely free. If you want to go to hell, I will give you a chariot, to go direct. But if you want to go to heaven, I’ll give you a vimana – an aeroplane, to go there. So it is for you people, to become dynamic, and to have confidence within you. You know every Chakras; you know every rising of the Kundalini you know everything. Take it upon yourself! Then a person who takes it upon himself, you see I…… I can be very angry with all of you. Very simple. But no I have to get the job done. I have to talk to you nicely I have to sometimes scold you, I have to ask you this way, that way, you know? Marinate you, sometimes, sometimes put little grease, sometimes do this do that, sometimes give some heat, sometimes cold. Manage them, somehow, bring them round, and treat them in such a way that they are there. In the same way you have to treat those people. Not to get angry with them – to get angry is the easiest way, you see. Then have no problems. Once I get angry with you all, I’ll have My own peace. No problem. But you have to be really very-very, patient with all of them. Extremely patient: your language… [virtually inaudible][long pause] “Please”, “I am sorry “. You have lots of words here, but I think they have lost their value. So we come to one point we must [PLEAD?] from our heart, We must feel from our hear that “We have to save this man. We have to help him.” Then sometimes you have to scold also, because you’ll find most of the negative people, will be the greatest, fussiest ever born; they’ll create the greatest scenes ever possible; they’ll show-off the maximum… All these possibil…[end of tape 1 side 2]
[tape 2 side 1]
…everyone individually: “What you can do about Sahaja Yoga.” Make the list of people whom you are going to bring. Only those who come once to church… on… Christmas – may send their subscription every Sunday, also some of them do – are alright, can bring up the rear, of Sahaja Yoga. But such a rear can be a load, just a load, unless and until we have a real force in front. So you have to decide whether you are going to be just a load on Mataji that, “We’ve come here… My father is ill my mother is ill my brother is ill,” or “get me a job and do this and do that… I must have…” all these things are just good-for-nothing, useless. To My mind, it is absolutely useless. They have no meaning; I just do not think much of them. But now if you say, ‘alright, I am willing to do this and that for you,’ in the same way, with others also, you should talk in such a way… ‘Why you are bothering about these thing? What is it so important? What have you to do… in life? When you start talking like that your wisdom, your greatness, everything will be appreciated. The gurus, have to know from where their power has come and they must have their ideal corrected. They should study Me, how I talk to people, how I show My complete ignorance even if I know that they are horribly caught up and… I’d never tell them that “you are possessed” – never – till absolutely they start shaking their heads and, absolutely they go beyond. I’d never tell them personally. In the same way you should not, also, suddenly say to somebody “you are possessed,” because that may, absolutely upset people. Any curt answer, any sharp answer, is not going to help. Is a thing you must understand, you see is a gurudom, is different and to be a guru is different. You have to be extremely soft, and very sweet, otherwise these mad caps, they’ll all run away and they’ll be destroyed. They don’t know they’re good, you have to tell them they’re good, you have to talk to them sweetly; you have to do everything, go all out, bring them out, and do it. So today all of you have to take a vow, that you are all gurus and so, you are going to show… that you have, manifested, your guru-ness. When I come back, I want to see what have you done about it. All of you should get to it.
May God bless you.
Shri Mataji : Any questions? Food can be served also… Any questions… Must ask questions you see? Because in the reaching of Sahaja Yoga you have problems.
Sahaja Yogi: Mother, what do the born-Realized have that we don’t, and what do we have that the born-Realized don’t?
Shri Mataji : Born Realized are the people who were Realized long time back, before they were born in this lifetime. So they clear out much faster than you do, because they have done the clearing before also, so they clear out very fast. They normally do not take to all the perversions and all the temptations that you take to, and they are very different type of people. They are unique and cynical because when they are born they find the rest of them are going the other way and they don’t know how to deal with the others, because they don’t know how to deal with the others and deal with the situation. They become cynical, and they have their own ideas, and maybe these born Realized might develop their ego, also, quite a lot.
Normally they do not take to temptations – normally – but if they go to it, they will see to it that they have it fully, and, while you people have a very great capacity for one thing, because you know your Realization, it happened in your own awareness, when you were aware of it, you saw the happening. So you understand the value of it. Supposing you are born in a rich family, then you don’t understand the value of richness. But supposing you are not born in a rich family and suddenly you get lot of riches, then you can compare what I was and what I am. In the same way in Sahaja Yoga when you are not Realized and you get Realization, you can compare. And then the value of Realization is much greater for a Sahaja Yogi than for a just a Realized soul, even if some Realized souls also may understand but they are more individualistic, they are not so much collective, as you people are.
Secondly, because you have gone through that, in this lifetime and in your own memory all the wrong things you have done, you have much more compassion and understanding for other people, who have got these things. While these who are Realized people do not have much of that patience for others and they have their own way of doing things. If they come to Sahaja Yoga they could be very dynamic and very great, no doubt. But they will not take to Sahaja Yoga easily because they think they are alright: “Why should we accept anything else now? ” Because, sort of, they are satisfied people. But they cannot help the humanity unless and until they learn the thing. Like a man, say, who’s very clever, very intelligent, is a child born, very intelligent. He doesn’t like to go to a school. But he misses all the other things of the school: the discipline of the school, the complete knowledge of the school. He maybe alright I mean, he’s quite intelligent, but he lacks all that, which one can get it in a school in a proper way. Apart from that he lacks that companionship, with Me. Because I have given you Realization, so you feel Me much more than they can.
Supposing a child is born to a mother and the child has not seen the mother, then that child cannot have that feeling for a mother as you people can have. So this is the greatest thing that you have got. And if the Realized, born Realized also, try to stick on to Sahaja Yoga they will also develop the same feeling, and then the joy starts pouring in, because you start seeing how your Mother looks after you, at every moment, how She creates play and how She creates magic, because you forget your Mother when She- I have not given you Realization you forget Her. You think: ” Oh, I’m already Realized” sort of thing comes in you.
Shri Mataji : What other question?
Sahaja Yogi: It’s probably a silly question, but can self-Realization ever be lost, can you loose it, when given it.
Shri Mataji: No, it’s not a silly question, it is not.
You see, it is like this: when you become a human being, you are born as a human child alright? But supposing the child is put in company of the foxes, the child grows like a fox. Then, it does not have human awareness, it has the foxes’ awareness, but the body is that of a fox. [Human ?] In the same way you are Realized when you have jumped into another superhuman awareness. But if you do not allow it to grow properly, it has to grow still, and it has to grow, otherwise it won’t be manifesting itself. So that’s how it can be lost, in the sense that, you have to be born again and again it can come up. And it is lost in many.
Big problem. I don’t know. Because I have never known, such silly people before, you know. This lifetime only I am seeing such silly people and idiotic ones. Those who get Realization also don’t understand the value of Realization. Can you think of such people any time ?
Also Realization can be lost, say, after Realization you don’t feel like drinking much or something and you try to force yourself and try to become a bad person again and again. Then the Kundalini may not rise and that’s how, though there will be an opening but Kundalini won’t rise, at all. Can happen. I’ve known many people. I mean, this is something so new, you know? In Kali Yuga everything is funny, but this is the funniest thing. Really. I’m surprised. I’m myself surprised at people, that they have got Realization; they’ll come to program; they’ll give Realization to ten people and then settle back – losing all their vibrations. There are. Quite funny type you know. This Kali Yuga has created such combinations and permutations. Endless! It’s impossible to understand them.
So, the question is not silly at all, because you see, silly people are there. They think it fits in there. It is true – very sad – but it is. It happens. Such set of people. I mean, you can’t think of such set of people. I mean I never dreamt that I’ll be meeting such people. I thought “Once I give them realization they’ll be just Sahaj Yogis, very nice…” you know. Here I was, you know, like have you seen any… any fruit becoming a flower? Ha! I mean, really! This reversion is possible I never knew but human beings with their ego can do this reversion also. They have achieved it. [Mother laughs] You know after a egg is hatched the chick comes out, it cannot become an egg, isn’t it? But it does in human beings. They are silly people My child I know, you are correct, that is true it can be lost. It has been lost in so many of them. So you should tell them is better, you see the only way… advantage of this you can frighten them. You see “Don’t do like this otherwise it will be lost.” Then they’ll be alright. If they care for it. But human beings have become very superficial they just don’t care, much. You tell them “You shouldn’t do like this, is wrong” they’ll say “I know, I know!” “Then why are you doing it?” “I know, I know!”
Now what do you know? Now you don’t know what to talk to such people. Some of them are about to go to lunatic asylum. Or perhaps they are not yet in, and we are facing them. Some of them are like that. Half nit…wits and what d’you call them, all kinds. One thing you must know, that the people who ride the ego are mostly those who are archbishops of idiocity. And with the idiots if you deal, you don’t know what they will do. So it can be. You see an idiot you don’t know what he’s up to. How can you see? For a sane person it is very difficult. But I have seen it, happening. They look very sensible, when they talk, but they’re idiots. You give them a diamond, tell them “this is diamond, look after it,” they’ll throw it away. In that they think “Oh, I have been a very detached person. I’m not interested even in my self-realization.” Maybe this is the justification. I cannot explain, but it is true. But doesn’t matter. I will manage them also – after some time. But they are headaches, you know? They are headaches. So first try simpler words, then the difficult ones. Always try first simpler words.
[You?] can see through vibrations; you know everything; you know how you are placed and how they are placed; with vibration you can fathom out your own achievements you can… I mean you know your moorings you know, I mean relative position Â- everything you know. So there is no problem and you know such a lot.
Hm what other question? [Marathi word “wathaapini?”]
Bala? So “Here you are,” as Bala has said in one of his letters that a man has to have three things. One rare thing is that he should be born a human being. Is very rare. Second rare thing that he should have desire to meet God, and the third is to get a good guru. Here three things have happened… (you have got realization also), then what are we doing? This is the question. I mean everything has happened I mean it’s all there! And what do you do? You give the light. Now they say are we… now maybe I have enlightened you. Then what do you do? Give the light! Finished! Keep your lamp clean, and give the light. That’s all. Nothing else is needed. But you don’t take your light into some corner, or hide it under the sofa.
Are you better now. How are you? Good. Are you alright now? You, good. David?
David: Yes I am, Mother.
Shri Mataji: Oh. That David also is he alright?
David2 [Scottish accent?]: I was just thinking about what you’d said Mother. How can we help people who are born realized? But, they playing hard to get, they won’t come into Sahaja Yoga.
Shri Mataji: I know they are very –
David2: How can we help them?
Shri Mataji: They should help themselves, David. Don’t bother your head. Now this Mr. Gent [said as in “get”] of yours or Gent [said as in “jet”] or whatever his name is. He’s trying to study all the four, what you call, yogas and this and that and [ON or ALL?]. So what is he doing now? This is Mahayoga all the things are inside it and now he should come down to do these things. He just doesn’t want to meet Me. He’s avoiding. What can you do about him? Look at them. He’s more on a supraconscious style, you see? And the Raja Yoga and all that is all humbug, is all nonsense they have written, absolute nonsense it is. That’s not Raja Yoga at all! It’s all misappropriation and, I don’t know what to call it like… You see as I was telling, the other day, it’s written that, in Sanskrit language, that when the Kundalini rises, She become Kriyavati, Gyanavati and all that. Means She become active – activity comes into her. So, according to Raja Yogis, when Kundalini rises you start jumping like a monkey. It is not! But it means then the activity comes into you that you start moving the Kundalini of others. That’s how they formed a huge big area of the so-called Raja Yogis. They said this is Raja Yoga.
Yogini [Italian?]: Mother, can we work on other people’s Kundalini when they are not aware of it?
Shri Mataji: Yes yes, that you can raise but –
Yogini: …[WHEN WE…not clear] find it easier to do it this way, because some people are – although they see the beauty of Sahaja Yoga, they… they refuse to come into it or have anything to do with it.
Shri Mataji: You raise their Kundalini, then gradually they’ll come. But, you see they have to be aware of their realization; that is a compulsion.
Sahaja Yogini: They do. But I have come across some people that say they feel, so bad in themselves, that they say they’re not ready for it yet.
Shri Mataji: But you should say “How do you judge yourself?”
Sahaja Yogini: Well, hm…
Shri Mataji: You can also say like this that “I used to say… say the same thing, it’s in the fashion. But now the time of judgment has come whether your are ready or not.” Nobody’s going to pull them out of the graves and judge them.
Sahaja Yogini: So can we just put the…
Shri Mataji: [unclear IF IS?] You will leave it to us whether you are judged… you are ready or not. These are all fashions, you know. This is a new style. “We are not ready. I am very bad Mother. I am good for nothing. I’m useless.”
Sahaja Yogini: Some of them, Mother, they are too young that they feel that by coming nearer to God, they lose some of their freedom as young people. You understand. It’s very difficult to say it indifferently but… I’m talking about the purity of the person, and …
Shri Mataji: This is the problem. You should tell them that by… You see, freedom is different, and abandonment is different. These are two things. One must understand. Say, there is a kite in the hand, alright? Then it is in your hand. But if you allow the kite to fly it wherever it likes, it is abandonment. So the freedom is that in which you can manage to maneuver it, to man it, to take it the way you like, that is the freedom. Then you are free. But if you are in the hands of these… baselessly you are roaming about, then this is abandonment… for which there is always a punishment. Like, you’ll be amazed at, in the western country, the percentage of impotent people is so high that – unbelievably – it is like that. They talk so much about sex and do this thing is talking [shocking?] It never works out. So much of impotency is settled in these western countries. The diseases, the dirty diseases, which are caused by, these indiscriminate sex activities, are so much in percentage, that one has to be guarded against. You see if somebody says “give me freedom to put my both the hands inside the circuit of electricity,” is that freedom? And I don’t understand what is the freedom they enjoy like this.
Because there is jealousy, you cannot go about with many girls. There is jealousy; you cannot go about with many boys. There can be murders, you see. Why people murder these days? Their ego is hurt. Even with all this you see some, any drama or play and you see [IT?], you’ll be amazed, there is always a feeling of… Nobody says “Alright you have a boyfriend? Go ahead, I’m very happy” I have not heard anyone saying that. No one likes it – it hurts! They do it secretly. They cannot do it openly. If it is freedom it should be open. Why there is secrecy about it. They’ll hide from the man with whom they are connected, and just do it secretly. This is not good. They are deceiving themselves; they were deceiving another person. Deception! And this is no freedom. Supposing like a thief comes in and wants to run away with something. He says “I should have freedom to take away.” It’s like that! When you put your eyes on somebody, who belongs to someone else, then you are thieving. In the registration office it is said that this belongs to me. Then that is mine. In the same way in the registration office it is said that you are the wife of such-and-such, then your husband is the owner. Or you are the owner of your husband. I mean this relationship is between the two.
But now supposing there is some sort of a relationship to be established like a thief, then you do it secretly. You understand My point? It is not registered anywhere else. Otherwise they become absolutely shameless, abandoned, and then all of them end up in the orphanages, at the age of forty-five years – looking like old, dilapidated, secluded, excluded, what other name is, cut-off people. So to deal with reality must be done with intensity. Even love must be intense. Otherwise you are just befooling yourself playing games. You see they just want to play games. It leads them nowhere. So this is not freedom, this is tomfoolery. It is making fool of yourself. It’s only you identification. Freedom means freedom to ego, not to wisdom.
Sahaja Yogi [French Yogi, Patrice]: Mother do we have powers to kill rakshasas?
Shri Mataji: Of course. You have. You have killed also so many of them. This is the minimum power you are.
Sahaja Yogini: [INAUDIBLE – something to do with using “mardini” from the negativity destroying mantras together with someone’s name?]
Shri Mataji: You coin a mardini with anyone – finished. You see it is like this: I’m entitled, you see. I am the One who has killed all of them. So I’m entitled. I’ve got the title, you see, if you take My name title they finish off there. All their powers are dropping down; so you use that; you have been empowered. Otherwise how do you save these TM people, these people that people? Poor things they are under the grip of these horrible rakshasas.
Patrice: Then they are finished, they don’t come in another form?
Shri Mataji: No, I mean… You see they have so many other, styles of things, but you definitely kill some of them. Like in the war, you see? You are killing the enemies. You kill one, then another soldier, third soldier, forth soldier, like that.
Sahaja Yogini:[italian] Mother, what shoebeating does to a person who is full of catches and bhoots? If we should shoebeat a person who is full of…?
Shri Mataji: No, d’you see we should remove our interest a little bit, and give the photograph. Let them work on photograph, If they are not interested in photograph, just forget the person. You should not show interest in people who have no interested in the photograph. See that’s the best way. Why unnecessarily waste your energy?
Sahaja Yogini: What happens if these people are in immediate contact with us, like living with us? We cannot just, you know, ignore these people, I mean…
Shri Mataji: No you, if they don’t listen to you about these things, Try to cut off from them, and also tell Me their names: I’ll manage them.
Sahaja Yogini: I’m telling You the names to get rid of it?
Shri Mataji: No, no, no. Give Me in writing, you see. Give Me in writing and give Me a photograph. Then I’ll manage.
Sahaja Yogi: I’m living with some
Shri Mataji: Hum?
Sahaja Yogi: I’m living with some.
Shri Mataji: Alright? You give Me the names.
[Shri Mataji laughs]
Sahaja Yogi: No Ma, I’ve been living with them for six years.
Shri Mataji: Yes, but you give Me the names, and the thing, I’ll manage them.
Can I have my sweater, it’s here.
Sahaja Yogi: No, I mean there’s no need Mother.
Shri Mataji: Hum?
Sahaja Yogi: There’s no need, You know?
Shri Mataji: There’s no need at all. Forget them. You see no need to do that, firstly. Secondly is that you learn you see they’re a good subject to learn. You see otherwise how will you know what sort of people they are?
Sahaja Yogi: All right.
Shri Mataji: My sweater? Oh, there…
What’s happening to the biryani? The first attempt was biryani, [Mother laughs] and they asked Me the recipe, and – God save them – I told them that “don’t try all these things,” but they said “No. we’ll do it.” So, they must have done something. Just give Me.)
You see among yourself only you can find out. Just now they say “How Kuli has answered the question.” Just don’t worry. (Who is there?) You are living with stones and you are living with so many other things. This…
Sahaja Yogini [Italian]: But, don’t You think Mother of the children? Through their innocence they have more chances to get their Realization faster than the adults?
Shri Mataji: Children?
Sahaja Yogini: Yes.
Shri Mataji: Yes they can. But I mean, some children can be very nasty, can be horrible.
Can you close the window?
Sahaja Yogi: shut the curtain rather.
Shri Mataji: Better, let him do it. No-no I think better [unclear words]. Sit down, sit down. Kya hala tumhara. Aap teek ho gay?
Rustom: Abhi Ma. Almost. Hundred percent.
Shri Mataji Acha? Hundred percent. Sab pal tumha kya ha le. Aap teek ho gay? Bal tum lo gay si dira dev chalte ho…
[…Mother continues in Hindi and calls in Marathi to the Maharashtrians at the back of the room]
They can’t hear Me. [Marathi words]
Rustom: Mataji, shall we bring the khana here before Your feet?
Shri Mataji: Ha?
Rustom: Shall we bring the food before Your feet?
Shri Mataji: Kya what is it?
Rustom: Shall we bring the food here, before Your feet?
Shri Mataji: All right, if you want to. There’s no need. You do one thing, you take it.
Sahaja Yogi [offering food]: Mix something with it?
Shri Mataji: No that’s all. Can I give it in something so that you can…just pour it in. Yes please.
Sahaja Yogi [French]: Peter is back.
Shri Mataji: [Marathi words]. Very well done. Rustom? You have done it very well.
Rustom: The ladies should be thanked Mother. Maureen and Cathy.
Shri Mataji: Very good. Little salt is needed.
Rustom: Ah, that’s true. I thought so too.
Shri Mataji: Very well done.
Nichessa purani kallo? [Marathi words] That is how we all meet and love each other and -nice isn’t it.
Sahaja Yogi [Patrice]: Djamel is going to have an army of Ayatollahs on their backs.
Djamel: No, no, I’m trying to suggest the ideology around here, because all the Ayatollahs are going to be trapped by the Americans.
Shri Mataji: You know but, I must say I was surprised – thanks to you – that your President has done something about it. He’s very much different. You know, he has helped President Carter in some way, because President Carter has thanked him very much. Your President. Algerian.
Djamel: Not supporting the-
Shri Mataji: No he has said something by which he, I don’t know, for some “unknown reasons” they wrote, that President Carter thanked the President of Algeria.
But what do you think about this mosque? What are they doing there?
Who could these be people?
Patrice: It’s a new messiah. Mother. one more.
Djamel: I think they’re probably from the Muslim Brothers you know they…
Shri Mataji: From the?
Djamel: There’s a sect called the “Muslim Brothers” you see they’re very extremist
Shri Mataji: More than these?
Djamel: Oh, of course. More than these Ayatollahs.
Shri Mataji: They are from what country, from…?
Djamel: Oh, they’re everywhere, mainly in Egypt.
Sahaja Yogi1: Egypt,
Shri Mataji: But Egyptians are against this.
Djamel: We have them mostly in Algeria, but they are not regarded, well regarded by people also
Shri Mataji: What do they do, murders and things?
Djamal: No, they just have their own fanatic ways, you see? And sometimes they can be violent. Like in Egypt, they have been very violent.
Shri Mataji: Acha. I mean they have those weapons and things with them?
Djamel: No Not, not, not generally no. But they are capable, yeach. If someone tries to lead them, to lead them or something or other they can…
Shri Mataji: Like we had…
Djamel: Organizing of so many coup d’Etats, you see.
Shri Mataji: [To someone else] But dhal has salt quite a lot, tell them. So if you mix it up with dhal, you need not have salt.
Something like “Anand Marg” we had in India?
Djamel: But nobody, in Algeria, nobody really likes the Iranians anymore.
Shri Mataji: Ah?
Djamel: They don’t like this Ayatollah anymore.
Shri Mataji: I think so…
Djamel: They think…
Shri Mataji: I mean they have really insulted God!
Djamel: I mean… He thinks God is only for the Muslims, you know.
Shri Mataji: Oh look at our Pakistanis. You know Americans always supported Pakistanis, and Bangladeshis against India. Americans always have a speciality of always supporting wrong people.
Then they withdraw, but always I don’t know why they do it.
Djamel: Mother, you see why, because the Muslims usually are against the Russians you see, so they like the Muslims. But then you see, ? Vietnam? did not work out.
Shri Mataji: Ah.
Djamel: You see Communism supposed to stand for atheism.
Shri Mataji: Acha.
No, it’s a very generalized way of saying, that, because they are Muslims, they will be against Russians or they will be for Russians for Americans.
Sahaja Yogi: The majority are against the Russians because they…I mean they’re against…’cause when You were saying…
Shri Mataji: Because they don’t believe in religion.
Sahaja Yogi: Yea…Whenever someone says “Communism,” automatically its…
Sahaja Yogini: Atheism…yea.
Shri Mataji: But, against India, they have been always. Americans have been very much against India, and against favoring these two countries in the international fields. Even Ceylon…
Sahaja Yogi: Will be supporting…
Shri Mataji: Even Ceylon, you know. They created all enemies for India to deal with.
If fearing God, fearing people are to be supported, then Indians are very God-fearing.
Americans are not.
Sahaja Yogini [Italian]: Mother, can we use some of that salt for our food?
Shri Mataji: Hum?
Sahaja Yogini: Can we use some of that salt?
Shri Mataji: Nicely made. Eh?
Sahaja Yogini: Yeach.
Shri Mataji: They wrote down they whole thing.
Sahaja Yogi [French]: It’s the first puja where we sing something properly Mother.
Shri Mataji: Hm?
Sahaja Yogi2: It was the first puja here where we sung something properly.
Shri Mataji: Gavin practices. I was so enamored and so much, I must say very pleasantly surprised, the way you sung the Marathi aarti. How did you get it? I’m just…
Sahaja Yogini: When we were in India we got it.
Shri Mataji: Aacha.
Gavin: We also had a tape, so we checked.
Shri Mataji: Good. What about these Maharashtrian ladies. Have they gone? Or they are there?
Sahaja Yogi: Yea they were
Shri Mataji: Ha?
Sahaja Yogi: No, they at the back Mother.
Shri Mataji: They have brought something […Mother converses briefly in Marathi with those at the back…] Every body should have something to eat.
Nabhi is very much vibrating. Lower Nabhi.
Kuli, some water for Me, to drink. Water.
Sahaja Yogi: Mother. How can we help people who are born Realized, who meditate with the photograph but cannot feel the vibrations.
Shri Mataji: Can’t feel?
Sahaja Yogi: Can’t feel the cool breeze.
Shri Mataji: How do you say he’s born Realized.
Sahaja Yogi: feel cool from on the palm from there.
Shri Mataji: Ha?
Sahaja Yogi: I feel cool on the palms from this person.
Shri Mataji: But he doesn’t. If he doesn’t accept Me, he cannot feel the cool breeze from Me.
Sahaja Yogi [Scottish?]: This particular person has got the cool breeze, once or twice, the cool. Just feel it and then not very…
Shri Mataji: That means he has to accept Me much more.
Sahaja Yogi: Pardon?
Shri Mataji: He has to accept Me. He has to accept Me much more.
Sahaja Yogi: That may be the problem Mother, but this person hasn’t actually had the chance to meet You yet.
Shri Mataji: If that’s all, then he will get it when he’ll meet Me.
Sahaja Yogi: I mean he’s vegetarian.
Shri Mataji: You see, when he’ll meet Me, he has to accept Me. If he doesn’t accept Me he cannot get cool breeze. Deities know. Deities know about it.
I’ll tell you a simple example: We had a visitor in our house, his name wa, what was it? “Shaha.” What was his name, Mukud? Your friend.
Sahaja Yogi: Mukuncha
Shri Mataji: Mukuncha, Mukuncha. He had his Realization and everything, he was a Sahaj Yogi, came to see Me but I was having My bath. So he went upstairs and this Ganesha was kept there. And he started feeling his own vibrations, he never got any vibrations, nothing. He was surprised, he got a shock. He thought that “what has happened” has he lost all his vibrations? And Ganesha would not give any vibrations to him.
So he came down, I’d finished My bath, he said, “Mother, I don’t know. What is what I did,” He didn’t even touch My feet he was so frightened. “I’ve lost my vibrations; I can’t feel any vibrations from Ganesha!” I said ‘Really?” He said “Yes.” I said “You touch My feet and now go and see.” He touched My feet; he went up, and the vibrations were alright. I said “He knows Me. You must touch My feet first otherwise He’s not going to give you vibrations too.”
Sahaja Yogi: This person now I was talking about Mother, lives in Scotland, quite a long way off – so it’s difficult. But they, they not well-off. They’re on social security. So, this person can’t come down to see you.
Shri Mataji: I’ll go to Glasgow, some day. And tell him to accept Me, more and more. Then his conditions will improve. Why is he on social security?
Sahaja Yogi: It’s a lady, and her husbands on social security. He’s deaf and it’s difficult for him to get a job in Scotland.
Shri Mataji: Haven’t they got a job? They should try for a job. Also social security people don’t get vibrations. Very true. You see, you are not to be parasite on your society.
Yogi: He’s not a parasite Mother. He trying to get jobs there. But, because of his infirmity, his deafness.
Shri Mataji: No once in a while is alright if you…but you must be trying for a job, I mean he shouldn’t like that kind of a life. Alright? So you tell him both the things, that “You must find out a good job for yourself”, as well as – in this country is not difficult to make money, really not too difficult.
Sahaja Yogi: It is in Scotland, it’s more difficult than it is here, Mother.
Shri Mataji: No, I mean –
Sahaja Yogi: …shortage of jobs there. Specially for people…
Shri Mataji: Even if you do baby-sitting, you can make money here. You can. You see if you want to live on…because of the social thing you have got it, you depend on it.
Sahaja Yogi: I’ll tell them Mother to do about it
Shri Mataji: But don’t tell him like that, he’ll feel hurt. You just tell him that “Mataji was saying ‘you should try to accept Me more’ and I’ll get him a job also.” He will find his job.
(Can I wash, wipe My hands)
Sahaja Yogi: Actually, it’s the wife who was meditating, and her husband I think is born Realized too, but, he doesn’t meditate regularly. But he’s got the cool breeze.
Shri Mataji: Oh I see. He’ll come round, don’t you worry. What’s his name?
Sahaja Yogi: The husband’s name is Tom.
Shri Mataji: Tom.
Sahaja Yogi: The wife is Jetta.
Shri Mataji: What’s it?
Sahaja Yogi: The wife is Jetta.
Shri Mataji: Jetta. Alright. You see they have to accept Me, that’s the only thing is. Many people, They get vibrations, say, from Gavin, but not from Me. There are some like that!
Kuli: Sorry, Mataji?
Shri Mataji: Hum.
Kuli: I said to one man, “see if you can feel the vibrations from this photograph?” you see? He said “No, I don’t believe in photographs.” So as a joke, then I said to him, see if you can feel them from Me?” He was willing to that, but he wasn’t willing to put his hands to the photograph.
Shri Mataji: See! He, Gavi, he’s telling us a concrete result. He’s saying that there was someone whom he said that “Why don’t you see your vibrations from the photograph ? If you get the vibrations.” Then he said “I don’t believe in photographs, I’ll not feel it.” So he said “Alright, you put your hands towards me if you get the cool breeze. He put his hands to Kuli but he would not put to the photograph. Though Kuli would put his hands but he would not.
Kuli: You know I said to him “I got it from the photograph,” and he wouldn’t put his hands to the photograph.
Shri Mataji [laughing]: Typical. We have another one in India. Like Rajesh. He has got two sister-in-laws and they said that “we feel cool breeze from you, but not from [the photograph] …
H. H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi