1980-05-11 T. M. and Ashram Behavior, Dollis Hill, London UK,

…very guilty, becomes absolutely passive, docile, and just like a cabbage. Because when you are released from that thing, you go into sleep. And when you start getting into sleep and all that, then the subconscious takes over and then you become the other side. So simultaneously you become a sadist as well as a masochist. All right? So you go into two roles. Now, it’s very cunning. If he had put you on the one side only, you would have run away. So better kept just [lead/lean] you from one to another side. So you never get out of it. This is cunningness. While this fellow, he has taken you to the right side by which espionage, this, that, you do. Then you are caught up. But if you, supposing you go as a, say, somewhere to attack first as a king, then they recognize you. So then second time you go as a beggar. You see, you play all the time into double. This is his trick, all right? So, then he started these courses. First he made you supraconscious and he started your courses. Means you became ambitious, you see.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes.

Shri Mataji: By that you became ambitious. You wanted to fly. That was a flying sort. All right. So he said you can fly. Now, this idea can only appeal to people who are on the supraconscious. Otherwise, who would like to fly? See, you have no way of landing also. And the flying was nothing but an excitement that you must jump, you must jump, and the competition was set in. We were all jumping, breaking our Mooladharas every time, and we were absolutely unconscious as to why we were jumping, like hopping all the time on the thing and the mattress. And nobody was taken off or anything, nothing of the kind. We absolutely were sort of possessed and we all started hopping. And we were not in ourselves. The thing was like hypnotized we were, just jumping. You see, these people if they are [sent in the trances], you can make a person hypnotized. You can ask him to take the milk just like a little baby. It will start sucking the bottle even.

Sahaja Yogi: The fascinating thing is that whenever the course started and they were again doing the flying technique, before they did anything they always had someone [who was ready] who was able to hop around in the room.

Shri Mataji: So he introduced the ideas.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes.

Shri Mataji: He is the setter of the competition.

Sahaja Yogi: Right. Yes, he is.

Shri Mataji: You see, mass, this is a mass hypnosis, he is. He is the setter of the idea, you see. So you try to follow and compete.

Sahaja Yogi: Right, right, right. But you, you didn’t know, I mean if you haven’t seen the person actually do it, you know, and do what he did do they you would just sit there and maybe, you know, have a just [excitement].

Shri Mataji: Sure.

Sahaja Yogi: But I mean, the whole thing is that you have to see what was being done.

Shri Mataji: It’s something like jumping on a horse in a circus, you see. If you train people you can just jump, you know, and it’s a more [abhyasa]. It’s also practice.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, right, [I’ve done] that time.

Shri Mataji: If practicing one can do it. You see, by pressing your knees on the thing can just start jumping a little like that. So you put that on, that this kind of a jumping started. But now, these courses started. First of all mantras, and then the courses. So first and foremost thing, it stated with God to begin with, all right?

Sahaja Yogi: Yes.

Shri Mataji: Now, you, later on he stopped about God. But all these mantras like [Sanskrit] and all these in Sanskrit are all about Shiva who is the God Almighty according to Indian philosophy. [Hindi] God name? Then what are all these mantras are? To whom you are doing Havanas? See, to which one? It’s not to [agony] or anything. You are doing it to Shiva.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes.

Shri Mataji: These mantras are for Shiva.

Sahaja Yogi: And then, most of [them] have mentioned about the reading that, reading the [unclear] and [Ten Commandments].

Shri Mataji: Yes, and then he asked us to read a particular thing, which has no meaning. You can read anything. It is all unauthorized, comes out from the other side, make no impression on us, nothing. On the contrary, by reading that, God knows what he did to us. We became more nervous.

Sahaja Yogi: And the other thing is that I should imagine that here is the ninety per cent of the people who pulled us free and this is very nice.

Shri Mataji: Because it was boring, it was Greek and Latin to English people, you see. Write it down. It was all Greek and Latin; for that we were supposed to pay. He never translated it to us and only that is the thing we had to read. We could not read anything else. But by reading it we did not understand, and by understanding we did not become. So you bring in Sahaja Yoga.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes.

Shri Mataji: We were just the same. Then he said that there were certain rules and regulations about having a celibate life but he was never bothered. People led all kinds of horrible lives, had all kinds of bad relationships, all sorts of perversions. Everything was going on. But everybody was deceiving. He himself never led a celibate life. He’s the biggest, what is the word for such a man is – there’s some word.

Sahaja Yogi: Hypocrite, Mataji.

Shri Mataji: No, no there’s a bad word. I don’t know. In English language you have very selected words also. A man who has relations with many women, what do you call?

Sahaja Yogi: Adulterous. [Licentious], or licentious. Or [depraved].

Shri Mataji: No, no, no, no. Debaucher.

Sahaja Yogi: No, debaucher it’s, no [it’s a lovely name]. It’s the [unclear]. That could be a debaucher, that’s why I looked.

Shri Mataji: See, I know English better than you. I actually looked into [the/this] meaning of Sanskrit into English and I found out the word. All right? I worked really very hard. And the cost of all these things you have to mention, different costs. And what did you get out of it? You did not know what you were doing. He already told you there was, everything was a secret. He said that, this is, you are not to know the meanings, first of all. Secondly, he did not tell us how it was going to affect us. Thirdly, we did not know where it is going to work, what is, what is the results to be expected, except for everybody getting headaches, migraines, madness, lunacy, epilepsy, shouting, screaming, cabbage-like existence. Nothing else happened to anyone whatsoever. And not one person flew there.

Sahaja Yogi: Also couldn’t we bring into some fact that how did, you know, there one actually had any [vague indication/verification] of where he was.

Shri Mataji: You see, that you, you can say after Sahaja Yoga, you [see/say] but you can say that we were sorts, as if we entered into some sort of a blanket, which was all dark and every time we moved any direction you see, as in the military they’ll give this training. You know what sort of a training they give? They put people inside a cover and that cover is all dark. And there are [poky], what you call wires, which have got thorns coming out. So if you raise your body a little bit higher, you get those thorns into you. And you have to move straight, just like that. That sort of a thing it was. And if you moved backward, you didn’t know where you would go. You didn’t know which way to move. You were just moving forward into it. It was, there was no way out.

Sahaja Yogi: And the fear they have it. The fear.

Shri Mataji: Achcha now. So the first one was that. Then the fear was injected to us. Now what sort of fear was injected? First of all, first of all, ego. You see, you will be this, you will become a, that we are doing enlightenment. Nobody seemed to be enlightened, by any chance. They were all dirty people, doing dirty things. They were, of course, some of them were Nobel Prize winners, this, that. But they didn’t have a good life. They came and stayed nicely. You can also mention Indian officers, how they came and stayed and enjoyed women in Switzerland, how they were paid for, free money and all that. They stayed there, and that’s how now he is blackmailing also Indian officers. All right. How he, he, he asked some people to smuggle cameras and those things to India just to help some Indian officers there. So these things can be brought in there. So now for the courses of flying, you see, what you do exactly you must show them. You must tell them the mantras, what are the different mantras are and how these courses are done, then your yagnyas are. Yagnyas are nonsense that he has thought, you see. It has no meaning. People just laugh [and say] when we tell the Indians the, it’s, it’s just a joke of a mantra and everything. There is no sense. God knows to what they think he was doing. We had no idea. They told us, “These are few mantras that every Indian knows.” There’s nothing great about it. And then he said, “You do this,” all rituals made by him to befool us. Then you should also say, whatever the, what is the effect because of their, you see, vegetarianism, forced on us, you see.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes.

Shri Mataji: Vegetarianism forced on us. And the starvation and the way they gave you the water of the potatoes to drink first, and then the rind and then the boiled potatoes.

Sahaja Yogi: Then what else?

Shri Mataji: They will write this, the diet that they give them. Physically you were ruined because you had to jump like that, eat nothing, live in a Spartan way and supposed to be ascetics, you see. And he said this is trusty. You see, the thing is, he had an explanation for everything. If somebody died or committed suicide he would say that’s, not his thing.

Sahaja Yogi: He’s very un-stressing.

Shri Mataji: He’s un-stressing. Or he would say that he is now gone to Heaven. According to him is to certify now he’s gone to Heaven. God knows how he knew all these. Or else somebody became very restless, unhappy; then they would, they would say that, “You go to psychologist,” and they, ultimately they would land up in lunatic asylum.

Sahaja Yogi: There is one [beautiful nobody] who had lot of the [heavy un-stressing] and that was putting people in hot and cold baths.

Shri Mataji: See, hot and cold baths. And what else?

Sahaja Yogi: Tearing clothes, [often] cold clothes and putting them on your spine. And running cold water you were getting there showered, have a Scottish showers you could and then you get into [cold] and then you have.

Shri Mataji: To develop immunity, they might say.

Sahaja Yogi:: So this is first to help the heavy un-stressing begin.

Shri Mataji: And nobody felt really un-stressed. On the contrary, we had screwing pins continuously.

Sahaja Yogi: There was a, there was a, the question was asked by someone on our course because we’ve been reading, crest of the issue was, “Look what happened to [our God]”. He was the appraiser. They were the appraisers. And…

Shri Mataji [Aside, maybe to the mother of a child]: Rub it, rub it. Come.

Sahaja Yogi: And, Chapter three, verse thirty one.

Shri Mataji: You want to take the children? Yeah…

Sahaja Yogi: We must go.

Shri Mataji: Yes, poor things, they must be tired.

Sahaja Yogi: And it says that…

Shri Mataji: May God bless you [as others/Isidor]. Your children are so beautiful and your wife is all right and everything is fine. I’m very happy about it. May God bless you.

Sahaja Yogi: There was this passage about that one had to be careful because one could get if [one who had] the desire of doing these things for their own game. Then one, you can put up with these, [any kind of godly services]. In other words does yogis who had gone to the [poor], were themselves been caught up with the ego, and have died, you can get possessed by these things, so… it’s says in this book and we asked him about that. And he said, “Oh, it’s only mistranslation.” Then why about it? And this is one of his major things, and then he always said that books were not translated properly.

Shri Mataji: That’s why, you put it in one this thing, whole thing is misguidance. And like this, you see, anything you told them, they will say, it is un-stressing; they would say it is mistranslation, it was this, it was that. Like that, you see, explanation was ready for everything, you see.

Sahaja Yogi: Always.

Shri Mataji: Always. There was a no [dirt; GW: dearth?] of explanation, you see. And it always would repel on you. They would say that it was your karmas. That’s why you are suffering. Then why are you there?

Sahaja Yogi: Yeah, right.

Shri Mataji: You see. Why are you taking money? If we have to pay for our karmas, what are you doing there? And no, no knowledge of any kind, nothing, you see. Then for physical problems, you should tell how physically you worked with possessions, what happened to you, that suddenly the body would become absolutely heavy, and this and that, and all these would happen. Physically you should say that a very big, this thing would come, what you call, a kind of a pulling on the Vishuddhi, means you can say the pulling on the….

Sahaja Yogi: The headache…

Shri Mataji: Headache…Nei, nei, the whole, whole, whatever you call about, becomes suddenly very stiff.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, something stiff.

Shri Mataji: Or in the body suddenly somewhere it would become just stiff like a cancer patient, you see. And people would vomit and just do all kinds of things, receded physically, you can say. Then emotionally you can say…

Sahaja Yogi: Depressions.

Shri Mataji: Ha, depressions and also suicidal tendencies, you see. What he did, by creating you like that, docile people, naturally such people cannot be aggressive, see. So he said that the criminality is less. But you see, either you destroy others or destroy yourself. So he pointed out. He’s a clever man. So he said, “Why do espionage? Better make them horrible.”

Sahaja Yogi: One of the tasks.

Shri Mataji: So he was destroying. He was just like Hitler. He made you so weak, so weak, that after all these, after ten years with him, nobody can raise his head. You are left without any money. You are left without any physical strength. Nothing is left to you and you just have to face it. All right? So this is the thing is. So first you have written speedy thinking and all those things and aggressiveness in the beginning.

Sahaja Yogi: Egotism.

Shri Mataji: And then, you see, fogginess came. Then the fogginess came, the sleep came, we used to sleep for hours together. We could not get out of our beds and, I mean, we just became like cabbages. All right? Now in women he created romantic pseudo-feelings, you see, feelings of pseudo-romanticism and all that. It’s all junk. Through his hypnosis, otherwise look at this face. I mean, which woman would feel any attachment for a junk like him? But you see, he did it, you see. He’s no hero by any chance or anything, you see. Now, then, then he give you epilepsy, ending into lunacy. You can quote the names of the people, you see, what happen. People, did they get heart attacks, exactly?

Sahaja Yogi: A person at first did the research on [classing] documentation. He was called Dr. John Alison and he died in. Yeah, he did the research on heart, in the [aneurysm] and the heart [auricle]. And he did [it that’s why] best way. He died in ’76 [with] Mahatma Gandhi.

Sahaja Yogini: He was about fifty.

Shri Mataji: You see, in the beginning, the first half of it, if you had not entered into the second half, you see, the first half, where you were just aggressive, that time you will get heart attacks. So some people died with that aggressiveness. It is always combined with aggressiveness or ego-oriented it is. Heart attacks come to people who are more on the ego-oriented or who, who also over-exert their body. They get their heart attacks. So these people must have got it. But those who become mad do not get heart attacks, you see. So, so somewhere finished with heart attacks and somewhere brought to the, if the survived such a thing, then they became lunatic. Nervousness, nervous tension, and biting the nails.

Sahaja Yogi: The person who is depressed [unclear] demand the treatments. Nails are down to the [ungues].

Shri Mataji: You should put all this point. Then apart from that, you should also say about this thinking. Thinking became very foggy, you see, or could go to a point only and could not go any further.

Sahaja Yogi: One will talk and yet forget what one was talking about.

Shri Mataji: Yes. All right. So physically, mentally, emotionally, you are ruined. Then the best part was the financially. Financially people, the screwing pin and all that you have written, isn’t it?

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Mother.

Shri Mataji: And about, yes, financially, financially most of them became bankrupt, those who are senior people. They have no money. They sold their houses for the children, had no place to go to. They could not send their children to schools. They didn’t have money to give food to their children, some of them, which you should name. Some of the people are like this, you see. So the money part of it, you should say financial ruined as you have suffered, you see. While he himself, his lifestyle is that he has a bed with a diamond, these things and all that. He lives, he has got his own air hostesses and he has got his own aeroplanes and this and that and all those things. And he calls it charity, all right? Then, now he has deposited his money in various banks. See, he’s a yogi. Why should he worry about saving income tax? He’s such an expert on all these, you see?

Sahaja Yogi: Or this educational…

Shri Mataji: Now, what is educational?

Sahaja Yogi: He kept that charity on educational, charity is [unclear].

Shri Mataji: Moreover, whatever money you paid, you see, and then you became teachers. So whatever you earned was taken by another course, you see, sort of a feedback.

Sahaja Yogi: Oh, yes, constantly.

Shri Mataji: Constant payments. So ultimately everybody landed without any money, you see. There was one tap from which you were getting, and another big tap which was flowing out. The whole life was joyless, powerless. You see, you were like morons, you can say. Either you were sadist or masochist. Nobody was normal. And you were completely incapacitated as human beings, frightened, full of fear. People had arthritis also.

Sahaja Yogi: [unclear]

Shri Mataji: Is it? Arthritis. People had arthritis and stomach troubles and all….

Sahaja Yogi: Migraines, incredible migraines.

Shri Mataji: All kinds of migraines, and all kinds of troubles.

Sahaja Yogi: Is, is a headline about TM migraines, terrible migraines?
.

Shri Mataji: Pay for getting migraines.

Sahaja Yogi: That is a true fact. Starvation also. Many, last year some [really starved].

Shri Mataji: Really? Now…What’s there?

Sahaja Yogi: There’s a very interesting [unclear] clear, Mother, although I thought there we should…

Shri Mataji: Now from there only he had taken hard labor you were put to.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes.

Shri Mataji: You were given prisoner’s food. You see, he is a little foolish.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes. There was something very interesting here as [marvel failure singer] University of California has [unclear] to interview July and many more. And more than four hundred former members were various cults. I wonder if we shouldn’t write to her and find out if she hadn’t, had any of the TM people to the…

Shri Mataji: That’s the, that’s the side issue. But just now, you see, for these people now….

Sahaja Yogi: This one?

Shri Mataji: No, no. the way they put hard labor, given you hard labor, eat like a prisoner’s food. You were all the time on the run. Nobody was bothered about your conveniences. With children you were running about. It was such a torturesome life, you see. And you didn’t know where to stay. He charged for children such a lot. And children we used to scream and shout to. They had a very bad time. Then, he charged money for children and all that, all right? Then…

Sahaja Yogi: Without specially [movement] he could [unclear].

Shri Mataji: So ultimately what happened to people is that they got diseases, they got hysteria, they’ve done psychotic, suicides and deaths. This is what is the end of. Now, will he not know where the money was going, how it was spend? Nobody knows anything about it. And how the money was collected, how it was given. Only what we know that from here lot of cash money, and those days when it was not allowed, was taken by bags by some people. You should, you could also say that, “Once I carried a bag to Switzerland and later on I discovered that it had money,” like that. Then, the greatest thing was that, the, the character, you see, he did not allow us to built up our character. We had to give up all our values, we had to tell lies, you had to make stories and you had to tell all kinds of things. Otherwise, he said you cannot go ahead.

Sahaja Yogi: He doesn’t like [the perfect truth].

Shri Mataji: Everything was money-oriented. He said, “Now you learn these things and earn lot of money, again join new courses.” But the best part of it, you see, we should say here now that we have found out that he talks [out]. He doesn’t want to talk of God but the Sanskrit slokas are addressed to Shiva who is a Hindu God, who is a Hindu God of existence. And when we talked to some people who are authorized in this, I mean those who are very well-known, real people, you see, who live in the forest, and when we found out, we found out that these, the persons who has to give mantras, has to be a realized soul. While, most of these ones we gave also to, these mantras and we were not at all realized, nothing. We did not know and he just gave us authority because we paid more money.

Sahaja Yogi: If you wanted to join a certain [kink], the inner [kink] you had to have, he’s saying how much money you had?

Shri Mataji: Yes. All inquiries were made: how much money we had, how much we owned, how much…

Sahaja Yogi: [unclear]

Shri Mataji: Yes, fill in. And what you were doing, you see, also. This is the most important thing, how much money you had. What spiritual strength you had, that was not necessary.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, has nothing to do with it.

Shri Mataji: Nothing to do with it. Exactly. And neither he ever corrected anyone on that point.

Sahaja Yogi: Never.

Shri Mataji: Never said. He said, “Go ahead. If you have three women, have five. Doesn’t matter, as long as you give me the money.” He was least worried about your spiritual life or your character. This is the point you must make out. And this is not Indian style because Indian style of things is that in that you, your character is the most important thing.

Sahaja Yogi: Never interested in the individual’s progress. Only he’s interested in the [unclear].

Shri Mataji: I mean, he made you lose all your values also. Whatever character you had, that also he made you lose, you see. Now, you have to talk about their tantrism, that this is something like a, what you call, witchcraft. That is, is a tantrism is an old cult of India which is, which is done in this way that they offer Puja, unauthorized these people, to a deity. And because they are unauthorized that they don’t know how to do it, it is said that the deities, they go from there. Their attention goes away, it is said. And in that, in that area then appear all these horrible people because there is no attention of Divine there or of God. So they come and then they capture this and then they handle it. It’s a very old cult, it has been there for years together and this really came into being after, after Adi Shankaracharya.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Mother.

Shri Mataji: Because just to harm his pure Kundalini Yoga, you see. And he said Kundalini is the one. Just to finish off, really these people came like satanic, they are very satanic forces. Well, this is the point, [you see]. Now, he’s, we have heard that he is doing blackmail of Indian officers. He’s got their, all their, what you call the, past and all that, confessions. He gets confessions from people. Then he used to call high officers for entertainment in Switzerland and his fares used to be paid and they were supplied with other things, whatever they needed, all right? They, they kept the government in good mood.

Sahaja Yogi: When we came here could Mr. what was his name…

Shri Mataji: [unclear name; Kemillal?]

Sahaja Yogi: And through [unclear] and he was asked, he was asked to go then, that they would pay him that time to stay here.

Shri Mataji: No, that’s very common. Everybody knows. All these people went to there without paying any fare. They were given free these things. OK, we can find out who were those. OK? And why should they mind? You see, what I am saying, that government won’t [be in/give any concern] about it. Now the whole thing is, you should say [it was such a mismanagement. Now [from] what else to what else we used to go? We did not know what was happening and all that, and we had no idea, just like sheep, you see, sheep. And they were just driving us mad. We did not know what they were doing, and they raped women and the children become mad, mad screaming and shouting.

Now the last part of it you should say that they took…

[Part missing]

Now the last…

Sahaja Yogini: Esther received, Esther received some calls when [she left from TM people].

Shri Mataji: Yes, everybody is receiving [calls/colds] and this thing and he’s giving all funny, this thing, when they came to know that we [have, are] disappeared. But the other thing which I have to tell you about, your personal thing, now your case is on. And I don’t know whether if your name just now appears will be good or not. But this is just a preparation. You should say that, “My case is on.” So only this should take place when the case is declared within, say, fifteen days or so. Then it would be all right. Because it’s under jurist, you see. So whether your name should be brought in or not, it’s not proper.

Sahaja Yogini: Mother, I think, this very subject scares some people.

Shri Mataji: Aaa?

Sahaja Yogi: We have to find out whether this subject it is [safe] for her.

Sahaja Yogini: Scottish Law is different. We may miss…

Shri Mataji: No, no, don’t play with it. What I am saying is that we are not going to lose that money because of this. So be careful. Better, it’s only fifteen days more for this thing to act, isn’t it?

Sahaja Yogini: Are we talking about the [unclear]?

Sahaja Yogi: No, no, no, no.

Shri Mataji: Or we, the sound that’s gone out?

Sahaja Yogi: The sound that’s gone out.

Sahaja Yogini: We have to check out tomorrow.

Shri Mataji: That’s what I am saying. So you find out if see, if see, if it’s a substitute, then you should tell these people, BBC people, that, “We’ll come to you little later.” Or whatever it is, you should not take, you don’t give your names just now. All right? Just find out. This is I am giving you a question about it. And then you have to tell all about it, what happened about that. And there are some here… You did also TM? Hello. You did also TM?

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Mother.

Shri Mataji: He did, these two children. Who else did? Marco. She did TM. And…

Sahaja Yogi: Hannah, Marco’s …

Another Sahaja Yogi: David Spiro.

Sahaja Yogi: David Spiro.

Another Sahaja Yogi: He had problems.

Shri Mataji: Marco.

Sahaja Yogi: Marco. Mark [unclear] and [unclear].

Shri Mataji: Did you go to all, [Ethan/Iann]? Did you go to?

Sahaja Yogi: No, but I lived with somebody that, that is doing TM. And now, he wants to meditate in my room. And when he first started the TM, I, I didn’t [mind] about what he was doing, anything, but I had [him] in my room at that time. And he had changed; his whole character changed when he started doing.

Shri Mataji: Hey, you can tell these things, you see. He can also join and say that, “Because of him I landed up in a lunatic asylum for some TM.” It’s a better idea. Because you see, so many like Angie and all those, I mean, they did. God knows how you got into this also, is it? But best is Allan.

Sahaja Yogi: Well it’s Allan, and then it’s John Pierson.

Shri Mataji: Yes, living with such people one can, you know, because they’re mad and there’s no way of protecting yourselves from madness. You see, if supposing a lunatic [slave] lives with you, you can become lunatic. Now you see how he shares the bhoots. You see, from Sahaja Yoga you can see. But to tell them, you have to tell that maybe that living with him I got also lunatic. That’s the only way you can say. But you know how you share bhoots, you know. You can’t tell them about bhoots but you can say that, “As if we were possessed and a sort of a possession came onto us, we absolutely became blind. We didn’t think. Our thinking was zero.” Yes, what is it?

Sahaja Yogi: And there’s one point about them, about their civic [unclear] Mother, for they, they require that any evidence is given must be clear fireboard because they [have to able] to [unclear] before [completing the Puja].

Shri Mataji: What is?

Sahaja Yogi: Mother, he asks more evidence or evidence for other aspects in the movement.

Shri Mataji: What is it?

Sahaja Yogi: They want that the evidence should be able to be verified…

Shri Mataji: First, I mean, what is more evidence if they want? You have been there…

Sahaja Yogi: Mother, they just want to have the concrete case of the evidence.

Shri Mataji: Aaaa?

Sahaja Yogi: They want to have the concrete case of the evidence.

Shri Mataji: Concrete or what more do you want? Allan has landed in the lunatic asylum. And she used to be full lunatic. You were half. All kinds. And you had to go through, [through various] improvements. That’s how you got improved. And you should say what it used to happen to you, you see.

Sahaja Yogini: Mother, what about point that a lot of people are still evils and they can’t see there’s anything wrong with them.

Shri Mataji: That’s what I am saying: the thinking becomes foggy, you were possessed, you see, and they will say, “How it happened?” You should say, “You were hypnotized.” Because anybody you tell them, they’ll say, “We cannot believe such a nonsense.” So then you should say, “Because you were hypnotized you could not see anything wrong in anything.” Whatever he said, you see, we just tried to. We don’t know how he overpowered us.

Sahaja Yogi: Could we be able to do a demonstration to them how is like?

Shri Mataji: Yes, you should. You should tell them, “We’ll demonstrate you.” Actually, this was actually happening to us, but still we could never understand that this is all happening to us and why should we go on paying. You see, there was no more of money. You see, it’s a kind of a hypnosis. It’s a charismatic sort of thing, you see.

Sahaja Yogi: I think that would be a very good proof is to ask the validity about what they say about their flying.

Shri Mataji: But you should say, “Hey, Dick.” You should ask him to fly. You see, we would say, “All right.” At least he should show us flying.

Sahaja Yogi: Right.

Shri Mataji: It’s all right. You see if you want you can use my fifth floor. Could drop him down floor. You should give one circle at least to that [pigeon]. You should put this point. See the best thing would be to ask at least one man to fly. Or else he should fly. Like they broke the sandy layer of the ground, you see, floor, jumping here. And they would say the man [land] the ground floor just up to the sandy layer. Giving false these pictures and this and that and all that it was nothing but a… But these are, these BBCs are very good people. So you be prepared. They’ll say, “But why did you want to fly?” So he said, “You, then you will only fly when your spiritual life is all right.” So we were seeking. We wanted to improve our spiritual life. And that’s what he said. Whatever he told us that, “Your spiritual life is going to improve. You are all going to get enlightened.” We got only one enlightenment, that we are saved from lunacy.

Sahaja Yogi: He said you could take a post-enlightenment after the six months course.

Shri Mataji: Aaaa?

Sahaja Yogi: After doing the, after doing the six month course you could even take a post-enlightenment.

Shri Mataji: Post?

Sahaja Yogi: He said that…

Shri Mataji: No, that part I know. What will you take?

Sahaja Yogi: You could even take a post [during/doing] enlightenment.

Shri Mataji: Really?

Sahaja Yogi: That was his dream and…

Shri Mataji: But now they will come on you. How did you believe such stories? You should say that, “When you go there you will become the same. We can assure you.” You should tell them.

Sahaja Yogi: It’s really something. Right.

Shri Mataji: Now what?

Sahaja Yogi: And especially if someone [unclear].

Shri Mataji: And when they, you see, well, the main thing is that they put up such a big show with these Nobel Prize winners, TV camera and everything and the video and everything in a big… You just get enamored. It’s a circus, you see.

Sahaja Yogi: When we were sitting there in [Petersburg] and suddenly the phones going mad, and the fan’s [own peril] was the television staff, three cameras and oh, all the gearing of the [unclear] as a….

Shri Mataji: And if, say, if you have ten bhoots, so ten bhooty people, all right? You put the in twenty-five, the twenty-five will get bhootish.

Sahaja Yogi: Oh, right, just like that.

Shri Mataji: Isn’t it? So this is how the things spread. And you should say that it is written by you that a physician gets sick with this thing. You see, a psychologist gets sick going nearer a mad person. You should say, “You go near any mad person, you’ll become mad. In the same way, we became.”

Sahaja Yogi: Right. And that when they were [aroused] the rumors about flying around, they were actually photographing people flying and then they [brought/bought] up these photographs of people in media but only in photographs. And that’s all they showed us. They said they see it happening.

Shri Mataji: Now what you should say, that they are showing in media all these photographs. Why don’t they show in real, you see? A live show, you see. Let them do it. Come along. Let’s have it. And we can have this fellow, Mr. Mahesh Yogi….

Sahaja Yogi: Mr. Yogi.

Shri Mataji: Mr. Yogi to brought down from there.

Sahaja Yogini: Mother, there was another very clever at flying [or it was supposed that]. It was that reason how we were [unclear]. Because this one is not fit for doing in the city. And if there were more people doing in the cities, the world consciousness will be so upraised that we’ll all be [in Heavens] and it was dark. So it remained [unclear] money and [unclear].

Shri Mataji: But again they will ask you, “Why did you believe such a nonsense?” you see. Aaaa? You were possessed; it’s the main point.

Sahaja Yogi: Oh, yes.

Shri Mataji: You see, anybody stands up like that, what a face he has. Just see his face. Does he look enlightened? He looks like a goat to Me. Such a short fellow, four foot six inches. All these women falling in love with that four foot six inches pygmy. What, how do you explain? It is only hypnosis, you understand? Everything is possible with hypnosis. It is simple hypnosis. Because you were desiring your evolution he can tell you anything and you will have to believe it. I’ve seen hypnosis Myself, how the people hypnotized. And you can make anything out of hypnosis. You can tell him to talk like a little baby, cry like a little baby. “Swim now. There is water.” The person will start swimming.

Sahaja Yogi: It happened to me.

Shri Mataji: Aaa?

Sahaja Yogi: Now when I was saying, [Tina] was hypnotized….

Another Sahaja Yogi: [Give her some toys].

Shri Mataji: So this is it. Come here. This is the letter which I want to send to [unclear] Prasad that I would like to, to… this thing is to be tide, you see, it is difficult payment to the Madras agents that you have….[missing part]

You can write it down another way. So, you see, what I am saying that tomorrow I can tell you on the phone, you don’t mind, because I have no typewriter. Yes, all these things.

Sahaja Yogi: [unclear] Because I don’t have [typewriters].

Shri Mataji: And, and I need some… This one also. I’ll tell you the address and on the phone we’ll talk about it. And then we’ll have to send it. All right? This could just… Put it in that [thing Or tape]. So, this is how it is. All right? And all the money that he has, deposits and all that….

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, Mother.

Another Sahaja Yogi: Mother.

Shri Mataji: Ha.

Sahaja Yogi: When would you like to work out the program for England?

Shri Mataji: Which one? Sahaja Yoga?

Sahaja Yogi: I told July, June 15th, no.

Sahaja Yogi: June 16th, Mother.

Shri Mataji: No, no, June 24th, I think.

Sahaja Yogi: No, June 16th You leave, and You come back a week later.

Shri Mataji: All right. So I will be. Twenty-fourth I’ll be back.

Sahaja Yogi: Yes, so we organize one [program]. You can suggest, if you like.

Shri Mataji: Yes, yes. And also till August, till August I am here, 15th of August. So June, July and August. I’m sorry for this, but I didn’t know exactly when I was going. What is it, [Colleen]? Void. All right.

Sahaja Yogi: Mother, are You going to give us this routine?

Shri Mataji: Yes, routine is, routine is, in the morning you get up at 5.30. Let us put here that. Sleep at, earlier. Sleep much earlier, doesn’t matter. But get up at 5.30 in the morning. Then wash yourself nicely, come down, take your cup of tea in the kitchen, not in this place. Take your cup of tea and all that. Within half an hour you should all come here by six o’clock. Sit down for meditation, with one hand towards the photograph, with lights and all that, and another hand outside. And the another hand again, right hand and left hand, and work it out with lights and all those things.

Sahaja Yogi: First the left hand [forth/forward] and then the right hand.

Shri Mataji: Yes, first left hand and then right hand. All right. Then the, when you, then you, after that you don’t talk to people too much. And go and have your bath, or whatever it is. Then go to work. Come back home as soon as possible. Take a shower, clean yourself properly, and then you eat something, whatever you have to do, and then meditate, and then clean these photographs, show them Aarti and all that. You put them right. That is very important. Not, they are not decorations in the house. See, every photograph is so powerful; you have no idea. They are all one power each. So put them in a proper place. Do all the worship that you have to do, properly, and then meditate and sleep properly. If you want, you can put, soak your feet in the water and sleep properly. Read something of “The Advent”. “Advent” also is very good. You can also My, in the ashram, you can get My book from [Colleen] and read it, part of it, like that. And every evening try to do it. And then eat your food and sleep early. Then again do it at 5.30. You have to do it like that. Otherwise, you are not going to work out. All of you should get to it. Otherwise, it’s not going to work out.

You must know that your background has been very funny because of all social problems and other problems in this country, and these bhoots again. All these put together, you see, your background has been very, very wrong. We have to work it out very fast. And that’s how it would be. All right. Then, is, the main thing is respect. Respect is the main. And that’s what I find because, you see, I’m prideless. That’s My nature: I have no pride. I cannot have pride as others have. So people start sort of taking advantage sometimes, not advantage but when they talk to Me and all that. Apart from that, when you even talk about Me to others or anything, you must know that respect is the only way. That’s the solution. That’s all. Nothing else is to be given. Respect. And I am telling you as your Mother, because you know I am just like a bubble. I have nothing to say. But you must all flower, and you must blossom, and that’s why you must understand that these deities respect Me hundred per cent, absolutely. And they can’t allow you to be disrespectful. And they will be kind and then hit you. So be careful. I’m warning you, never to be disrespectful, not to be argumentative, not to talk in a way that is not proper, because these gurus, see, how they keep you down. I do not. I keep you equal because you have a freedom to talk to Me. But you must know that you have to be careful. What’s the matter? Are you all right?

Sahaja Yogini: No, that’s to be dropped to [Ethan/Iann].

Shri Mataji: [You are all] here. Everything all right. May God bless you.

Sahaja Yogi: Should we, should we have a routine for mantras, Mother?

Shri Mataji: Mantras?

Sahaja Yogi: Or should we just say that it’s same [unclear]…

Shri Mataji: You see, what you do, mantra is a very good thing. I mean, if you want to work it out, you see now, you all have different, different problems. All right? Supposing somebody has heart, somebody has this, somebody has that. So you combine it with Nirmala and it will work out. I will tell you about that, how to make mantras. But you see, mantra, it’s the only way you can really consolidate your chakras, isn’t it? Now, for example, I told you today your combination, and that combination, if you have worked out, you’ve done it. But you see, you must know that you have to become very enthusiastic about it, extremely enthusiastic. There is no enthusiasm. How can you work it out?

Iann, how do you spell your name?

Sahaja Yogi: I A N N

Shri Mataji: I

Sahaja Yogi: I A N N

Another Sahaja Yogi: No, the surname.

Shri Mataji: I E

Sahaja Yogi: My surname?

Shri Mataji: No, I E.

Sahaja Yogi: I A N N

Shri Mataji: I A N N. And what is your surname?

Sahaja Yogi: Lewis. L E W I S.

Shri Mataji: I A N N L E W I S. Hmm. It’s good. May God bless you.