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Public Program. Kensington, London (England), 3 July 1980.
Today we are here to hear about something that I think is a very great discovery of modern times. We have made lots discovery in the modern times. If I told My grandmother that we have been to the moon, they would not believe. None of them. All these old ladies would not believe it. And when we showed them even the TV, they would say, “Oh, something made up story. We cannot believe it. How could they go to the moon?” But we have. Definitely, we have landed there. In the same way today we are here to hear about a very new discovery. Because when we are progressing outside, maybe some are progressing within. And there has to be some progress within. If you see a tree, which grows very high, you must know it must have very deep roots. Otherwise, it cannot grow that high. In the same way when you are growing so much outside, there must be some peo-ple finding out the roots to feed this over-developed civilization of ours. And this discovery is that the time has come for us to get en masse realization that very few people received before, our Self-realization, that is – to know ourselves, not through some brain washing or speech making, but a happening which has to take place within us in the course of our evolutionary process.
We have reached a certain state of evolution. We are human beings. All right, I hope nobody has doubts about that. But, still we do not know what is the mean-ing, why are we here? We have not found out our meaning. We have not found out our purpose of becoming a human being. Why not the scientists ask a ques-tion to themselves, “Why did we become a human being?” Why the evolutionary method has worked in such a way that a great thing like human beings are cre-ated? And then what are we going to do with this special personality of human being that has been incarnated on this earth? What is this specialty? What are they going to do? And what is their relationship with the whole, with the whole universe, with the whole creation? Where do they stand? What is the purpose of their being aware of many more things than the animals are? And why should this awareness be in such a condition that you cannot answer most of your ques-tions? This question has never been asked by scientist because they are ap-proaching outside, they have seen outside only not inside. This search is out-side. For example, a doctor: he’s searching outside. Whatever he does not know inside he says, “All right. We have that much, that far, not further.” You ask them any question they say, “So far is all right. Whatever we see with our five senses, that much we can say,” or at the most microscope or something that they use but nothing beyond. Because they cannot see, because their awareness is limited, they cannot go beyond.
Without the seeking you would not be here, no doubt. There is seeking every-where these days. Everybody’s seeking. Some are genuinely seeking; some are in the fashion also. This is the fashion going on that you have to be a seeker. Otherwise, you are no more in the rank. But the seeking that is coming to us is also coming from His power to desire that. And if you are really seeking it, you should find it. But firstly we do not know what we are seeking. Secondly, we do not know whom to believe and whom to trust, naturally, because there are many people in the market afloat. You don’t know which shop to go to. Thirdly, our ego stops us from accepting anything that can be beyond us. We are so much filled with ourselves, “I, I, I, I believe, I think, I go. This is my house, this is my town, this is my country.” All this “my” and “I” business, it’s too much in the head. And we are pumped up with it. I don’t blame anyone. All this works together and stops us from getting to that point. But if you have to speak from God’s point of view, He has done everything so remarkably within us. That if you just get rid of a little of your ego, a little of your ignorance, and a little of understanding, it will work out. It has worked with at least seventy percent people over here, and it should work with the rest of them.
Within us lies this power, Kundalini, about which you must have read many books. Also there are books of Yog. As soon as one start talking about Kundalini there are books Yoga,, of anything. Whatever you say there are books of yog about it, whether they are upraised or not. Can you imagine Hitler used to talk about God? Can you imagine Napoleon used to talk about God? Who is going to catch them? Which God is going to charge them? Anything fool men can come and say, “I’m God.” What can you do about it? All right, at the most you will say that he is lunatic. That’s all. In the same way anybody can write about Kundalini. And that’s how so many people I’ve seen are frightened to know about Kundalini. But She is your mother. And She has been with you. Not in this life but many lives She has been there waiting for this chance to give you your rebirth. She is the one who has loved you throughout. She is the one who keeps a check on you. She is the one who knows all about you, what you have done, what you have been up to. Everything She knows. And She shows it up when you come for your realization.
But how we have treated Her is another point. I’ve seen people having Kundalini of such horrible nature you cannot imagine it. I yet to see Kundalini, the way we have treated our own Mother. It’s wounded. It is so hard to describe even the agony of Kundalini within us. Our ego has ruined Her many a times. And all these things are there in the heart of that Mother of yours.
Every individual has a mother. That’s why it is called as a rebirth, as we call it the baptism or we call it twice born. In India we say a “Brahmin.” Now Brahmin cannot be born. It’s a wrong idea. How can a Brahmin be born? He has to be re-alized soul. It is an absurd idea that a Brahmin can be born. It would be like say-ing that a realized soul can be born. But he cannot be a realized soul because, his parents are realized?
In the same way we have really misunderstood many things as far as religion is concerned. And the people who took charge of religion have also really misled us. I went to Russia recently. And their argument, really, they’re fantastic.
What they said, “Now, look at this man. He’s supposed to be the bishop here. He drinks, he smokes, he has all the weaknesses of the world. He collected lot of money for himself. He doesn’t do any work. He is a parasite, and everybody pays money to him. And he stays there nicely. Now, how are we to believe that this man has anything to do with God?”
Naturally, I mean, we also feel the same way. But we have not rejected God. That’s the difference. So they say, “With this kind of a man preaching about God, we don’t want to believe in any of their say.
I said, “Why have you rejected God? Supposing somebody really brings you closer to God?”
“Then,” they said, “We’ll believe, of course.”
And that is how we have lost faith in God. Now you have to forgive those people. And you have to see if you can really get to that position, if you can really feel it.
Now these chakras and all that, there are books you can read them, and you can go through all that. I need not every time tell you all about it. Only thing I have to tell you what happens really, when you get realization. That is important be-cause sometimes I’ve seen people get confused.
First and foremost thing that happens when the Kundalini rises above this center which is placed inside the brain, we have pituitary and pineal body, which is called as – actually that place has no name in the medical terminology – but you can say at the crossing of the optic thalamus this very subtle center is placed. It controls your ego and superego, and when the Kundalini rises above that, you become thoughtlessly aware, means you are aware but there is no thought. You become blank, not that you become into a trance or you become something else. You’re absolutely aware. But you find there are no thoughts coming from your ego or superego.
We always live on thoughts, the cusps of thoughts. From one to another we are jumping. Even for half a second we cannot become thoughtless unless and until we are possessed or we are drunk. So in your awareness you become thought-less. It’s first thing happen. Then when Kundalini crosses from here, you start feeling the cool breeze coming from your hand, a cool vibrations. That means in your central nervous system you start feeling the pulsation of your spirit, first time. You start feeling. Sometimes you may feel a little hot in the beginning. Heat comes out, then the cool. And even from here you might feel the cool breeze coming out from your head here. Because a hole is created there, you are baptized. Sometimes people feel a big draft coming out of you. And they’re sur-prised, “How is this?” Like a cooler it comes out.
After this happening in the West I’ve seen there’s a problem, not so much in In-dia. India that who are not westernized but Indians who are really Indians, living in the villages, there is no such problem as we have here. Because you are ra-tional people, you have had rumbling in the rationality and thinking, analysis. Everything you give to them, they’ll analyze. For example if they came to My house. If I make a cake for them, they sit down and analyze it. By that time, the cake will all be finished, and all the taste will be finished, and they’ll be analyzing it. So the analysis starts and because of that. First they will feel vibrations of others.
They’ll find out now what are the centers? Because I’m here to decode, I tell you, “This is this center, because of this center, this is the problem.”
So they’ll find out, “Now, what’s the matter with you? Why you are catching on this thing? Are you suffering from this disease, or have you got a problem with your wife? Because this is wife’s center.”
Then they verify it. Then they are confirmed that “Yes. What Mataji has said is correct.” Then they come round. Then real joy starts trickling in them. But for Indians, I mean, say the Indians, real Indians, there is no problem of this kind. They are just there. They start enjoying, laughing, “We found it,” finished. They don’t go round and round.
There is one book written. I don’t know if they have got it here. Have you got the book? There’s a big book written by one of the Western seekers. He’s a very scholarly gentleman. And that book, when we gave it to these Indians, they said, “What is the need to read all the time? Now we have got it now. What is the need?” I mean, “We are feeling it, we have got it, we have changed now, we are transformed people. Why should we read all this? This is not necessary.” But to a Western mind it’s a nice food for thought. They must rumble a little bit here and there. But it works. Then they come round, and it works, and works in the real way.
So when the people are confused, I have to just tell them even if you get the realization. …though the Western are very good at getting realization. I must say. Americans especially are very good at getting it and loosing it too. They are such shifty people, you know. They’ll come out of this house, get their realiza-tion, go to another. There five rupees now they would be sit down there then go to another. So that’s a rather difficult situation.
Now, the English are rather difficult. They are. It doesn’t crack easily. It does, sometimes, very easily also. But mostly takes little time. Then they start sitting, you see, with their English mind, you see, “Let’s see now. What about this?” … goes on a little bit. But it has worked and worked with so many of this beautiful people who are sitting here. And I always felt that England is the heart of the whole universe, no doubt about. Your laws have been taken away by all the countries, and they are using the laws, English laws. And in the same way God’s laws and statutes have to circulate through London, England. I came here by chance. My husband got elected into a job, and that’s how I’m here just by chance. And India, if it has got the Kundalini of the universe, I think, heart is here.
But in this ego business we have lost our heart. Ego covers the heart completely, and we become heartless. I met people who came to Me, they said, “Mother, we have no feelings. Now what to do?”
I mean you cannot think of a person who has no feelings at all. He has no feel-ings for his children.
I said, “How could it be? What have you been doing?”
“I’ve been very busy. I’ve been doing lot of social work.”
I said, “You better do some social work to yourself. How can that be you have no feelings of any kind?” “You see, I’ve seen so much now. I have no feelings left.”
It’s all ego that “I’m doing so much good; I’m doing such good work, you see. My name must appear in Who is Who and it should, I would like to contribute so much thing to that work.” All that is nothing but is expression of ego.
But Kundalini is so great. She sucks in everything – your ego, your conditionings, your superego – everything She sucks in. And you become what you are. You are really beautiful. And you are the spirit. I see only your spirit. I don’t see you – to be very frank. I just see your Kundalini and see the problems on her, on her movement on the centers. But I don’t see what country you come from, what place you come from. But the way you react and respond then I know, “Oh, you must be from Holland.” Or if they are from Sweden, I will immediately know they are from Sweden because they are all planning how to commit suicide in a proper way, you see, in the most prestigious manner. It’s very easy to find out. And it’s very easy to find out a Swiss gentleman from the way they respond to Sahaja Yoga. Their main problems are like that, and that’s how you discover people.
But the best part is when you get connected with the whole, you start feeling yourself and also feeling the others. On your fingertips you start feeling your own centers. These are five, six, and seven on the left and right. Now the left is your power of desire, and the right is the power of your action, means this is your physical, and also your thinking, and your planning. These two powers you can feel it in your centers, you can feel it on your fingers. And that’s how you can tell whether a person has got physical problem or a mental problem, whether the person has got his liver bad or his head is off. It’s very simple to find out. Even children can do it.
Now we have many children in this country born as realized souls, which you are not aware of. How will you know? How will you know if a person is true or not? How will you know that person is realized or not? There’s no way of knowing it. See, I have seen people they believe that the more you pay the better the guru. If you pay, say thousand, then “He’s all right.” But if you pay three thousand, they’ll all compete for him. You see, it’s like a race horse going on, you see. Who puts more money? And that’s that how they think they are going to do about re-ligion also. And there’re some people… I mean, I don’t want to describe all the horrible things that they work out, but only thing is that you are being befooled completely by all this jugglery going on. You cannot sell God, impossible. God has nothing to do with your money. You do it in Switzerland all these things. It’s not meant for God and godly people. They have nothing to do with your money, with your purse, or anything. They are not bothered. What is riches to a man who is saint? He’s nothing. What riches have you got? How can you purchase God? Can you? It just ego pampering. In Sahaja Yoga we just see what is your Kundalini, which is pure form of your problems, and your spirit which is the pure form which you have to achieve.
So, if there is a happening that takes place – which will I’m sure – it’s happening to thousands, so it should happen to you also. In Kensington I’ve great hopes because I’ve [mow down?] here in this place quite a lot. I hope so. If it works out, then you have to first of all establish it. But what happens? As soon as it works out people start thinking. It’s like eating the cake as I told you. It has not happen to you because of any thinking, by any rationality. Rationality is limited. Like if I came in the car, I have to leave it outside. I cannot bring it inside.
In the same way when you have to enter into the Kingdom of God, you have to know that it is beyond rationality. You land into a space where you just feel the joy coming within… Your thinking ends up here when the Kundalini goes above this red mark that I have, in the brain itself. Then your thinking will get over that thing. For example a thought rises and falls off. Then another thought rises and falls out. There’s a space in between, a very little space which we cannot feel normally. We cannot remain there. We jump from one cusp of the thought to the other one. But there that space increases, and then your attention is in that space. That is the present. While the left is your past and the right is you future. Either you think of the past or of the future. But by this you come in the center, in the present, now at this time. You go beyond all the shekels of time. And then you start understanding that God’s clock are different from ours. That’s why I’m sometimes very early, sometimes very late. My clock doesn’t go very well with that. And I find that there’re still five minutes I’ll have to speak more to prepare you for that. It is a very different thing. His plannings are very different. Our own plans fail because we don’t know His plannings. If we know His planning, not a single plan will fail. And you’ll be amazed how He helps you.
Now within us these seven centers that we have. The first center is the lowest, is called as Mooladhara Chakra. And Mooladhara Chakra is the center which repre-sents our innocence which most of us have lost. Innocence is the thing, which keeps us pure, holy, and simple. The Kundalini is placed higher. The matter is innocent. Above that lies the Kundalini. We can say that when we were carbon atoms, at that time we were at Mooladhara Chakra. When we became living car-bon atoms, we were at Mooladhar Chakra. Then we lost our innocence because we have freedom to loose it or to have it. Then comes the Kundalini, which is above it.
And above that is the center called as Swadishtana which goes round and round, and thinks, and plans, and works out for our future – is for our creativity. This center also transforms the fat cells from the stomach for the use of the brain. That’s why when you plan too much you have a problem with your heart. Now you may say that “How is it heart gone?” I mean I’ve cured many heart patients. I’ve cured many, many diabetes patients. How did I do? Very simple. Because in medical science there is now talk of balance in life. I mean even doctors have no balance in their life. For example they are working, they are working like – I don’t know how to call that – but really working very hard. They have no balance in their life. They have no love left in their heart because they think, they are doing such a lot of work themselves. They have no time for anything. Now this kind of too much work gives you the power to stretch your energy too much, and you start using our right side so much that the left side fails. You become really un-emotional. We do not love. You do not know you’re happy. You neglect your emotional life. And that gives a pull to the heart I would say, because heart then puts down, put down, says, “Now better stop,” and attack comes in. Diabetes also do such a thing. Diabetes is caused also by the same thing. Those who plan too much will get diabetes; if not, they’ll get heart attack.
Planning too much, I explain that now. You have to go somewhere. All right, your planning starts. Now you have to go there tomorrow, not today. Now, supposing in everyday life if you plan like that, you really go mad. For example, now sup-posing I have to come to Kensington. I say, it’s all right. I’ve planned that My car will move only right side, will I reach here? In the same way we plan everything. If I have to buy a ticket, I should go and buy it today. What is there to sit down and plan it? I can’t understand. And once you sit down and plan it what happens, that the spontaneity of that thing is lost completely. You are not spontaneous. And that spontaneity is lost, and you become really a dead planner. No wonder these walls are made like this. I mean really look at this. I mean you look at them, you feel as if just like a, I mean, they make you very feel very dull. Don’t you think so? I mean, who must have done this? You see, must have planned hundred times sit down that, nothing happens, when I will be buried or some-thing like that, then I will see all grey around. I mean, just think of it. And this planning has come from a brain who must have thought him to be a great plan-ner. But nothing bubbling out of it. You see no joy. I mean if there is anything, I would like to see. But there isn’t any at all. This is so grave. You work on the street you find everybody [unknown]. What’s the matter? They cannot smile at you. They cannot wish with a smile. Even if they wish, you feel, “God, are they going to a funeral? What’s the matter?”
The man can become so full of this kind of tragedy because of our death planning I tell you. If you stop it a little bit, it would help you and help all the world round. With planning what have you got? Wars, problems, divorces, children running away, drugs – all this is planned out. If you have to do anything wrong, you have to plan it, for example, robbery in the bank. But they sit down and plan it nicely you can do it very well. But to give realization you cannot plan. I cannot say that -you will get it.[ It may work out?]. Can you plan out a flowering of one flower? Can you plan out the fruits coming out of the tree? Can you? Not one single liv-ing thing you can plan out. And when you try all those tricks, the Kundalini suf-fers. And what happens that your right side becomes very heavy, and the whole heaviness reduces you to nothing but that yellow stuff that you see in the head. It is something like your bile in the head, is Mr. E G O – ego. Every work that you do, you think that “I have done it.”
Now this “I have done it” cannot go unless and until you get your realization.
Some people do tell Me, “Mother, whatever we do, we leave it at the feet of the Lord.”
I said, “How can you?”
You cannot. There is a misunderstanding between yourself and your being be-cause it is not possible. As long as there is ego in your head, you are always knowing that you have done it. So you cannot leave it at the feet of the Lord. But when you get realization then what you say? “It’s going. It’s coming.” Even if it is your father you say, “Mother, it doesn’t come up. What to do? Kundalini doesn’t come up.” Even he may be your son, [your?] son. “I don’t know what to do? He is all hot.” You become a third person. You say “It. It doesn’t work out; it doesn’t come up.” Then really you become a person of non-act. You become a hollow person, and you start seeing the whole thing flowing through you. And you start seeing the beauty of God’s divine love that flows through you. You be-come really the [tendon?] instrument of God, the meaning that you are the pur-pose for which you have become realized. You are the instrument.
Till you put something to the plug, it cannot work out. Say a, Take a television. First… But once you put it to the plug, you see the manifestation. You are amazed, a television, just imagine. It is recording everything. How is giving out I mean – one cannot understand. In the beginning when we saw television for the first time – we were all amazed. Look at this box! In the same way, we are the most beautiful instrument God has created, not only that but we are the one who have to enjoy our own being. Can you imagine what a thing God has done for us? To enjoy ourselves – this is what we got because He is the gracious Fa-ther. He is the most loving Father, and He wants us to be into His kingdom to be crowned as His children. Any Father would like to do that. But He’s Father of all the fathers.
And that is what it is. It has to work out. It has to happen. We cannot talk about it. It’s a [work? unknown] I’m sorry. It’s a very different thing about which you have heard about. It’s a very different thing. It’s something so living. It is some-thing so acting. It’s actualization, from you it flows. You feel it yourself. It is not My certificate. It is your own certificate that is going to work it out. I hope you all will get it today.. All the new people, it will work out. It’s very great thing be-cause you find your absolute ‘Self’. You become one with yourself.
Of course I must say as a by-product you all might get cured – completely. Your troubles get cured. Physical problems get cured as a result if you get realization. As a result, you get your mental problems… We have epileptic patients, and all of them got cured. There are some people sitting here were epileptic – are abso-lutely cured. These are the byproduct. But the main thing is you are to be real-ized. You have to get your realization, and then you have become the light. And what does the light do? Is to give light to others. And then you just give it. As in Sanskrit this is a [nirvachi?], really without any gain in it. The giving is the gain. You just flow with energy. You just feel heart after heart. It’s so wonderful. Let us all enter into that wonderful land of complete purity and joy. May God bless you!
I would like one or two questions from you, but not too many. Sensible questions please, because later on when the realization starts, your mind will start coming out. So its better that you ask Me question before that.
Seeker: …what is realization?
Shri Mataji: What’s it?
Seeker: What is realization what You’re talking about?
Shri Mataji: I’m talking about [noise?] or something [laughing].
Seeker: …What You mean by realization.
Shri Mataji: Realization means you become one with yourself. If I say there is a spirit in your heart. All right. Now, I’m saying this a hypothesis for our practical purposes. But if I say so, then I have to prove it. And if you become one with that spirit, that I call as Self-realization. But in medical terminology I would say that on your central nervous system you can feel the existence of your spirit, to be very precise, or in psychological terminology you become connected with your universal unconscious.
Seeker: Is it some sort of a light come up?
Shri Mataji: Where?
Shri Mataji: No, no.
Seeker: How do you get your realization?
Shri Mataji: No, no. nothing. You don’t see it
Seeker: [not understandable]
Shri Mataji: No, no, no you don’t feel.
Seeker: [not understandable]
Shri Mataji: …light, see.
Seeker: [not understandable]
Shri Mataji: You see.
Seeker: How do you get your realization [not understandable]?
Shri Mataji: No, no, no. It will just…
Seeker: [not understandable]
Shri Mataji: That I tell you later on, how to do it. But, it is, there is no light. Be-cause light is just a shortcut you see. You just become, you just… You start feel-ing it on your hands. You start feeling in your being. It’s a happening in your awareness. Your awareness is [not understandable]. For example, how are we human beings, and how are they dog? Can you say? What is the difference? It’s very easy to make out a dog and a human being. Now you put a dog in a dirty place, will settle down there. You put a human being, he’ll run away.
In the awareness, in your awareness it will come, so that you become aware of it. You can feel… On vibrations you can say this is the center catching. Now those who are realized they can say what, where are you catching, what is your center catching. They know what center they are catching. They also know how to cure their centers. They know how to cure your centers. Ultimately, when you are cured, you are all right, then you start feeling that joy emitted from your heart. The complete balance is achieved. And you can give realization to others. You can raise their Kundalini. You can see it, raising it like that with your own fingers.
Seeker: How long does it take?
Shri Mataji: It takes just a split of a second, actually, actually. But if there are problems. You know there are second hand, fifth hand, its like an aircraft you see. Then it go rrrrrrrr, up like that and comes down, you must repair it again and it comes back. There are so many steps.
See like My husband was once saying that “What are You doing with them? Once You have given them realization, why are they coming to You again and again?”
So one of the disciples said, “You know, there are some second hand, can be fifth hand who be horrible cheat [unknown] lot of [cleaned up, so?]
It may be with some people it just falls off. Then again must prop it up, again it comes down. But once it is done, then it is there. Now you see so many people here are there who have got it. You can imagine when I started with one disciple, what must be My condition? Now I’m much better off because those who have got it are more than those who haven’t. Any questions?
Why are you so serious? Nothing? You must little bit smile before that otherwise, this is the seriousness I find. It’s rather difficult. It’s not a frivolous thing. But it’s a joyous thing. There’s a difference between frivolity and joyfulness, is the ques-tion of joy, no seriousness about it.
Seeker: That means that everybody could get this?
Shri Mataji: Sure, sure I mean that is My desire is, to be very frank that My de-sire is. But it doesn’t work out. Because I’ve seen I give realization to people. Even some of them are such foolish things they run away. They never come back., because their Kundalini goes back. They think they are in business, then they get some disease, then they come back after six months. So, you see, there was… when I was in the school. They ask a funny question: a man goes five steps forward and three steps forward and then five steps forward and eight feet backward and when will he reach? He never reach. That time I never understood, what does it mean. but now I understand what does it mean. You see it happens. They are not, you see, they are not ardently seeking. They are not there. They are just, they just, by the way like, as I told you, shopping is going on.
H.H. Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi