The Guru Principle

Caxton Hall, London (England)

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“The Guru Principle”, Caxton Hall, London (UK), 28 July 1980.

Yesterday I told you about the Void, the dharma, which one has to establish.

In modern times, people have used their freedom to such an extent, you see, they have moved so much to this extreme or to that extreme. They have left their central path and have accepted and identified themselves with such an extreme ideas about everything, that it is rather difficult to convince people that they have lost their way. All extremes are wrong. Moderation is the way we really solve the problem. But human race is such that everybody starts running very fast, you see, and there’s a competition set in: who goes first to hell. [Laughter, She laughs]

It’s not only in one direction, you can take up any direction, but all these directions are linear. They move straightforward and coil back and go down – any movement of that kind. For example take our, say, industrial development.

We started our industrial development without understanding the whole, the world as a whole, that the whole world was created by God, not a part, one country. Without understanding the relationship with the whole, when we start moving industrially, we created industries, and to pamper them we had to create other industries. Then also to keep the hungry machines working out, we had to feed them with something.

And thus we created a horrible system of extracting things from the Mother Earth, using them. We have so many things, but we do not have the thing which is your Spirit.

We never thought that, after all, all this matter is for what? All these things are for what? For comfort? That also, if not done in moderation, we are going to be ruined, completely ruined. We’ll become like worms.

The Mother Earth is available to you, that doesn’t mean that you should be indiscriminate and use it for your comfort. She’s there for your comfort, no doubt, She’s the comforting element we have got, the greatest comforting element. But we do not know how to use Her for our comfort. The way we use Her is by taking out, extracting Her. Now if I say that, the other extreme would be: “We’ll have no possessions, nothing, live, hang by the string, some shoestring somewhere”. [She laughs] There are people who believe in such a thing also, who want to live on a shoestring and have all kinds of diseases, physical, mental, because they are living abnormally, in such a way that they do not relate themselves to the Mother Earth at all. Either you abstract completely whatever She has, or take away all Her flesh, blood, everything, and otherwise you have nothing to do. These are two extremes!

And once you start doing like that, you find that you become slave to both ways, because you start forming habits with the help of this matter. Habit formation is slavery, complete slavery, even a habit formation like fasting. Now some people have to fast. Who has asked them to fast I don’t know. What is the need to fast for people who are already suffering from liver troubles and thin like sticks?

It’s all right, somebody has to fast because, supposing he has too much weight, or say they want some rest to the stomach, is all right. But this fasting also can become such a habit, such a habit, that the day you do not fast you’ll say, “Oh! You have done the greatest crime on the Earth. Oh God, I did not fast on Thursday, I should have fasted.” In India we get so many mad people like that. [Laughter] They go crazy because they have not fasted. There are some who get crazy because they have not eaten their food. I mean they are all right, but if they have not taken their lunch, for them it’s the greatest injury, the greatest injustice done to them that they have not been able to take their lunch.

The matter starts enslaving you and your mind becomes a slave of that matter. You do not know in what way this Mother Earth, which is there to give you the ultimate, She’s the one who resides within you at the Mooladhara Chakra to give you the innocence. She gives you the innocence. Instead of taking that essence of Hers, the innocence, what you take is the matter which is dead. The living principle of Mother Earth is innocence, Her magnetism, Her gravity. Instead of that, what do you take out of Her is this matter. Either you run away from it, or you run towards it. Nothing in between.

Now matter is there for you to use, no doubt; but to use so that you do not get dominated by it, because you are the supreme thing God has created. You are the supreme-most thing; all the elements are working in you. There’s no animal in the world who has all these elements working in such a beautiful fashion that you develop your own will, your own freedom. It’s such a intricate process which has worked out a human being, which we don’t realize, where you develop your own will, your own freedom.

But again, with your own will what do you do is to lose your freedom all the time. For example, take a person who indulges in luxuries. I mean he is idiotic sometimes, I mean he really becomes an idiot the way he goes on. I mean you can see that he’s an idiot and stupid fellow. The another one, he will say that this luxury is – indulgence fellow is very, very idiotic and stupid you can see. So he says, “All right, let me give it up.” He goes to another extreme, to such an extreme that he becomes a dry person, absolutely dry.

The innocence is in the centre.

For example, the best use of the Mother Earth is to watch Her working. Watch the nature. Watch every tree, what beautiful personality every tree has. Every leaf of the tree stands against the sky. I mean it’s such a poetry to feel Her with your feet. How soft She is when She produces flowers for you. You have to learn so much from what She does. She creates a flower to emit fragrance, to give, to give, to give. She just gives. Her innocence doesn’t bother as to what you are, whether you deserve it or not, whether you are a good person or a bad person or what use you are going to put Her resources, She just gives. She doesn’t judge you. Nirvaj – it flows. The capital flows without any interest. It just goes on flowing and flowing and that’s the word of nirvaj is. It doesn’t think to whom She is giving to, whether they deserve it or not, if they are sinners or they are this or that. But now it is for you to use your wisdom. And She has created this deity [Ganesha] of wisdom within you, and you have to keep that deity awakened.

He came, incarnated on this Earth as Jesus Christ. Look at Him. Look at His life. How He lived. He was a carpenter’s son; He lived like a carpenter’s son. He didn’t amass money.

And what a dynamic life in thirty years of His age! What a dynamic life, out of which He spent only four years in the public.

With all our indulgences and with all our comforts, with all our movements and aeroplanes and all this, how many there are who have created such a dynamic life? What dynamism have we been able to show, the dynamism of the Mother Earth. “We must have this, we must have that, we must get this, we must enjoy this,” All right. But what is the ultimate? I mean how much we have been able to absorb it and what have we – giving others, what is our fruit of this tree that we are?

The reason is, we have lacked wisdom. He was wisdom. He is the One who emits wisdom, who balances our ego, superego, everything. You know where He stands, that Deity. But the people who followed Him, or who called themselves Christians, where is the wisdom gone? Wisdom is one thing lacking in all of them.

What is the reason? Because we just thought that He was crucified because He was a poor Man? Or I don’t know what we thought of Him. I can’t understand human beings, what is the lesson we have taken from His life? And the Christian nations have advanced so much materially. Can you imagine? They do not know that poverty is such a blissful thing sometimes.

And then now a reaction has started. I’m sure reaction will also take you to another extreme, you’ll miss the point. It’s like a madman running to one end and when he goes from there he runs to another end.

Have you ever seen a wild boar running? Have you ever seen a wild boar running? You see, it’s very easy to get out of the way of a wild boar because he just runs straightforward, till he meets some opposition. Straightforward. He wouldn’t see this side, that side. If you can just keep away from the line from where he’s moving he will not hit you. Then again he comes back in the same way. Goes this way, comes back. [Laughter]That is our movement has been about ourselves. What have we done out of our life? Let’s see. While we are capable, we are the seeds which are going to render the real fruits. We are capable, you know now that. And that is why first of all we have done the greatest harm to ourselves by ruining all our sustenance within ourselves. As I told you the other day in the lecture, that how we have to maintain our sustenance.

I hope it was not too much for you to – if you feel that I was trying to tell the people also they say, a group of people who think this is all conditioning. Actually, we are so confused in modern times about everything. Supposing a plane has to take off, all its parts are to be in a proper proportion, are to be tied together to the main body. Otherwise everything will go helter-skelter, isn’t it? Now if you have to jump into your unconscious, all your parts of the being should be attached to the gravity of the body, to your sustenance, otherwise you’ll go helter-skelter. Will you say that a – putting the plane in that way is conditioning it, for its freedom? You have much more freedom when it is properly done.

A person who is properly prepared for this flight, has much more freedom than people who think that one nose is lying this, and ears are lying on the other side, then eyes are going on the other side, his mind is going on the third side, his stomach is going on the other side. [Laughter]

Here he is listening to Me and he’s thinking of his food. His eyes are looking at something else. His feet are moving. He’s jumpy. There’s no proper binding. And that’s why the conditioning has a word in Sanskrit language as samskara. Samskar. Now “sam” means “good, beautiful,” or you can say “which are good to your Spirit.” Even to add to that they can say “susamskara,” means “good conditionings,” where you are to be chiselled out.

And in that chiselling, if you understand it is for not only your good, but for your flight, then you do not give everything to the winds. And this is the biggest mistake we have committed, when we started on the flight of our freedom.

How can you have your freedom when you are bound by everything?

You must go to the pub in the evening. You must go for your dancing [Laughter]. You must see a friend who smokes and must smoke with him. You have to attend a party where you have to drink. You must sleep at some particular time. Because you cannot sleep, so you must take pills. You have to have girlfriends or boyfriends, spend money on their – I don’t know what you call – dates, and things like that. I mean, how frivolous the whole thing sounds to Me. Same thing in India. I mean they have other frivolities.

But when you understand through your Self Realization your self-esteem, then you try to think: “Then what have I done of my life?” You are like diamonds thrown into dust. You must find out your relative relationship with all these useless things where the money is wasted, you are frittered away, your time is wasted, everything wasted, just find out. Once you discover that, then you start detaching yourself from that. But first and foremost thing I’m sorry to say – it is may call conditioning or anything – are these important things are, ten things I told you the other time.

Now all the gurus, all the gurus who came, say from we can start from Socrates, then Abraham, Moses – this is the Guru Tattwa, is the principle of master, primordial masters. The principle is born again and again. In India we can say the Adi Nath, we had one Adi Nath, the Guru long time back. Then we had Dattatreya, we had Janaka, Nanaka, Sai Nath. We had in the Middle East Mohammed Sahib, Lao Tse in China, Confucius – all these great Principles of Gurus who were born, they had one job to do is to establish your dharma. Their job was not to give you Realization, you must understand, everyone has one’s own job.

See Mine is a horrible job [She laughs] because I have to do everybody’s jobs.

But Their job was just to establish your dharma. They came at that time, in those places where it was needed the most.

So these ten principles as I told you, They established. They are created in the Void, as you see here the Void part, this part is made out of the water element. So whatever miracles They did, had something to do with water, like They could create water anywhere they wanted to. They would not cure people. All of Them have created water in the desert or in the places where …like in … Nanaka has created a Panja Sahab they call it, everywhere They have been able to create water. Whatever They touched, They could create water out of it.

Water is the life, life force which sustains us; without water we cannot live, that is the sustenance. But, They actually are symbolized in an ocean, in the ocean, because They give us the salt, the salt of life, which gives us the sustenance. If you see the salt, if we do not have salt in our body, we’ll have no sustenance. Christ has said, “You are the salt.” Who are these “you”? Are the people whom I was facing yesterday and today.

You are the gurus of today.

But see with how many powers you have come. Just think of it. These Gurus did not have to give Realization. You can raise the Kundalini, you can give Realization, you can cure people.

Today Djamel asked Me that: “Mother did They have the powers to cure?”

I said, “Powers They might have, but They’d never use that power because They were not supposed to do; They were just to sustain and imbibe these great principles.” They did cures, specially the last Guru was Sai Nath, He did cure people. But Djamel himself has cured a lady who was dying, absolutely. Doctors had given up hopes and he cured her. Now she is out and she’s gone to India.

Just think of it, that you have all the powers of these gurus, though – though in dharma you are still failing. You are not absolute. You have to get it corrected, your dharmas are to be corrected.

Now what is dharma within us, is our attention. As our attention is, you can make out the dharma of a person. Religion doesn’t convey that word. Dharma means the one which sustains you, “Dharayeti sa dharma”, the one which sustains you. Your dharma is the way your attention is. To have a complete balanced attention is just like the aeroplane, completely balanced and fully developed. If you have an imbalance in your dharma, the first and foremost thing is fanaticism. If you are a fanatic, then you are the greatest adharmi ever born. Dharma is balancing. First and foremost is to know that all the dharmas belong to one lotus: Nabhi.

Nabhi has got ten petals and these ten petals are the ten sustenance within us. If you see that the Nabhi has got ten petals – Nabhi center, the solar plexus, which manifests all of solar plexus. And if your, these ten sustenance are correct, your attention will be so balanced. Unless and until a flower is balanced it is not going to blossom out into a fruit.

First is the balance. All fanaticism of any kind, of condemning any religion or any incarnation is against dharma. That gives you an imbalance. That means you have not understood the essence of dharma because you are blind.

To say that there’s something wrong with what Christ has preached is as wrong as saying that there’s something wrong what Moses has preached, or Dattatreya has preached, or Nanaka has preached. Actually, Mohammed Sahib thought that He has said whatever was necessary, so that there is no need for Him to come back. But when He saw these horrible fanatics, even today they are, He thought, “Baba, better let Me take again the birth, what to do now with these madcaps? The thing that I preached, they are just going against it. Because I said I will not come, so they are becoming such fanatics.” He had to take His birth because, you see, human beings are such foolish things that these incarnations don’t know what to do. You don’t know how they will behave!

So He took His birth again as Nanaka on this Earth, and His own daughter, Adi Shakti, was born as His sister. What Nanaka was preaching throughout and throughout was this: that Hindu and Muslims are the same in the eyes of God, and that you all combine together and become one.

If there is anything that He has taught or Kabira has taught is this and this and this. But look at the Sikhs, the way they fight the Muslims; and look at the way the Muslims fight the Sikhs in India. We have created two nations out of it. Imagine! What He preached is just the opposite people are doing about it. How do you explain I don’t understand. I mean when somebody has said, “This is light,” how do you make it darkness I can’t understand. This is the speciality of human beings, is to create darkness out of light.

Now this dharma that They preached, is preached by all of Them, and They have been particularly against all that goes against awareness, because if your attention is not all right your awareness will not be all right. And so They were very anxious – all throughout, all of Them – that They preached that don’t take anything that will reduce your awareness. That’s why They were against alcoholism, They were against drugs and things like that. There were no cigarettes at the times perhaps, when Mohammed Sahib came in, so He didn’t say, “Don’t take any cigarettes,” because cigarettes came later on. But Nanaka said, “No cigarettes at all.” Now you are finding out that cigarette causes cancer. “It only causes cancer, it’s all right, doesn’t matter, because cancer – at the most the body will die again you’ll be born again. Doesn’t matter.” It’s not that. That creates a problem in the Vishuddhi, so bad that you cannot get your Realization so many of you, takes time, and your poor Mother has to work for your cigarette enjoyment for days together. I’ve worked very hard, you know that.

Then the drug people. They have enjoyed their drugs very nicely. They have been taking drugs, you see, enjoying themselves, going high, or whatever they call it. Ask Me. How much I had to work, with tears in My eyes because I know you are saints, you are meant to be higher people, and how much I had to struggle to get you out. Can you imagine, for four years I was struggling with six hippies in London [laughter]. Six only. And first lot came to Me who were really pleased, they had done a good job out of themselves. The only advantage was they had taken LSD and all that so they were on supraconscious level, and they could see only light coming out of Me, they saw all supraconscious things, lights and things and all that, so they stuck on to Me. Or I stuck on to them, all right, but they also stuck on to Me.

Today they are one of the best Sahaja Yogis we have here. They are the topmost Sahaja Yogis. They are the most beautiful Sahaja Yogis we can say, because they were saints I could see their Spirit shining. I could not lose that sight, worked very hard for them. They are saints. They got lost into drugs because they thought they are seeking. They did not do it out of fashion.

In India you see, when the Indian young people see you taking drugs, they think, “Oh must be something great.” You see, it’s very fashionable nowadays in India for young people to take drugs and wear jeans. They think by that they are getting sophisticated [laughter]. But they don’t know why you did it, they really do not know. They don’t know that you did it in seeking. They are such foolish Indians, you see, that they are doing it because they think that it’s very fashionable, you know. Everybody will call them “up-to-date” [laughter]. They don’t know why you left your homes, why you became like this. They don’t know the deeper side of your life, they just see superficially. And it’s very common now in the universities and things, this has started in a big way. But they are no good for Sahaja Yoga, useless people trying to copy. How can they copy your seeking, that depth?

That’s why these people were very much against all those things that dulls your awareness. Even now I have seen people who have been taking drugs and all that, in Sahaja Yoga. As soon as they see Me they start, “haah,” sleeping. They go into sleep. Because immediately, as soon as you start taking these drugs or all these alcohols, you move towards your left side, or to your right side. Mostly to your left side. Alcohol specially, left side. By moving your left side, you see, you go into your collective subconscious, you cross over to your Ida Nadi and goes beyond your subconscious into collective subconscious. You become very non-aggressive, no doubt. It is also because of too much of consciousness that you are egoistical, you have started doing this. You thought that “Oh, our ego is too much.” You can’t see your ego, so you said, “No, let’s have some drinks.” By that you go on the other side. When you start moving too much towards the left you know what happens: you get possessed, because there are satanic forces let loose, you get caught up. Now when you come to Sahaja Yoga after that, you are always dragged, you always feel the heaviness at the back, all of you. Left Agnya, not the right – superego. You feel very sleepy; you feel like crying, weeping all the time; you feel very much frightened; you cannot take any decision; any question comes in, any problem comes in you shudder. It’s an escape, escape from reality. Say the reality is in this room, if you run away from this room, this way or that way, you are running away from reality. I would say, after war, so many people died, perhaps, perhaps, who were dissatisfied souls and in a very bad condition. Hitler was a satan, real satan, and all these forces were let loose later on by these gurus or whatever it is, and they captured you, perhaps, that you took to these things. These are extremely injurious to our being.

I went once to Trichu. They had invited Me and all these people came in big cars to receive Me, I was quite surprised that seldom – Sahaja Yogis are never very well-off people I mean, to that extent that you’ll have cars after cars. I said, “What business do you do all of you?”

They said, “You see, actually we are all people growing tobacco.”

And I said, “Very nice.” They are growing now, you see, not only eating but growing also. And I said… In their houses you’ll be surprised, they had tiles made in England, they had taps made in England. All these ancient things that you have had which you treat as antiques today, they all had everything with them made in England [laughter]. I said, “Made in England. How do you get all these things in here?” The things you do not have here they had it there. I said, “How did you get it?”

He said, “We are exporting tobacco to England.” I said, “Very nice, what a nice work you are doing, exporting tobacco to England.” I said, “Don’t you think it is sinful to do like this? Don’t you know as Indians that tobacco is against religion?” He says, “We know but we don’t take. And if you give it to others [laughter], then it’s nothing wrong.”

It’s like a person who owns all the race course says, “I never see. I never put my money on a horse. I just collect. I’ve never seen a race course.” That sort of a person, that sort of a, attitude they had. So I said, “Very nice. You are exporting all your tobacco to England.” I told them, “Don’t do it. You are very near the sea, and sea is the guru, he will teach you a lesson of the worst type. I’m telling you today, now it is in the attention of the sea. Believe Me. Remove this. Do not send any tobacco. Do not grow, you can …”

They said, “What should we grow?”

I said, “You can grow very good cotton”.

There were three-four people who took Me seriously. They said, “All right, Mother, we will grow cotton.” And they really started making a big money because they produced very long threads, just like Egyptian cotton they started doing. The rest of them didn’t like Me. They didn’t thank Me, they didn’t come to see Me off at the station – all their cars were just fizzled out. I thought I had to take a taxi to go the station now [laughter, She laughs].

But can you imagine, within one year’s time, there was a typhoon. And there was another thing going on. These people were exporting this to England, and selling tobacco, the… you see the cheap type tobacco, you see whatever are the remains, the molasses you can call it, they were selling it to the poor people; and poor people were taking that very concentrated, eating that. So they took to black magic spiritualism. All of them were doing black magic. In their small little huts they were sitting doing black magic – can you imagine? – in their villages doing black magic. And the sea got so angry with the typhoon. You might have heard about the big floods in that area.

I must warn Brighton people [laughter]. The sea is taking a respite now, you just see that, because you are insulting the sea, all the time you are insulting him. This holiday-making now – it’s a disease with the western people. Holiday. There’s a girl in Sahaja Yoga, her sister also comes sometime, she was to have a baby, she is a lady doctor, sister – she has gone for a holiday, without any heart. She had a caesarean, can you imagine? All the Sahaja Yogis putting all their attention to the birth of the child, and this lady has very nicely gone for a holiday because holiday she must have. You see without holiday, she is nowhere. It’s all programmed; you must go for a holiday. What have you achieved by going to holidays I would like to know, what wisdoms? Except for sitting in the sun, getting a skin disease, and a skin cancer for Me to cure. What is the need to go in the sun such a lot I don’t understand. What are you achieving?

Your healths are going from bad to worse. Your forefathers had much better health than you people have. Despite all these health things you are doing, what is your health? Your livers are out. If you…

That’s nice, I’m happy the sun is coming, now you’ll give up your alcohol. Let the sun scorch you, then you’ll give up your alcohol. Otherwise you will not. Here, you go in the sun, sit there, take all the alcohols there, drink all wine – in the presence of the sea. No wonder all these oil tankers are breaking there and spoiling your health resorts.

That will happen.

You have no consideration for the sea is there, is your guru and you are drinking like mad. Nude women sitting down there tanning themselves. What’s this nonsense going on? I mean I don’t understand what is the need to tan your body like this? Who has told you that you look beautiful? You look ghastly with that. I really tell you, you look ghastly. Here you are discriminating on racial points [laughter], saying that people are dark, why are you darkening yourself I can’t understand, what is the wisdom [laughter, She laughs]? You know going to the other extreme. All right, once in a while you sit in the sun, do something, is all right.

But what is the need for you to be so extremely concerned about your holidaying, and in the holiday drink, fight with wife, come back and have a divorce. Always after a holiday, the after-effects of the alcohol you can see very clearly. In India, thank God we do not go out for holidays at all, we don’t believe in holidaying, at all! At the most if you have to go somewhere, we go to some festival or to somebody’s marriage or something; if there is an occasion only then we move out of the houses, we are gruhasthas, we settle in the family, gruhasthas who stays in the gruha, householders. We are not like vagabond gypsies all the time moving about. It’s all right once in a while, just to enjoy a picnic or something. I mean you are not scouts all your life. Yes, it’s so maddening, you don’t know. My husband’s office there are two great executives, British, they cycle down to the office. It looks so odd, you know, with half-pants [laughter]. With such a big office, how will it look, two half-pant people coming down, with a half-pant and perspiring and smelling and everything. It is absurd! [Laughter]

But there is something behind this all-frantic effort, is you are seeking something. Some people think that by going to holidays you will achieve something. I mean music, what have you achieved in music now, I don’t understand. By going to these holidays, if you have achieved this kind of music which shatters every part of your skin, I mean when I hear it, you know, the whole vibrations go on, jamming into it (?).

And your bad livers, think of that at least, bad livers, your skin diseases, your skin cancers. All this in the presence of the guru, the sea. Can you imagine? There is no auspiciousness in this, you do not understand.

The sea is to be worshipped. It’s a temple. It teaches you, it has given you such a lot. Think of the sea, what it has given you. Without the sea, what would have been your condition? In England specially. It taught you challenge, it gave you ideas how to go abroad, it has given you such a lot. All your wealth comes from sea and what are you doing about your Lakshmi? And do you know, the Lakshmi Tattwa which resides in the centre, is born out of the sea. Actually he is your grandfather. Do you have any respect for him? So much to learn, from the sea, from the guru. It never leaves its boundaries. It keeps to that. If you try to press the sea from one side it will show on the other side, somewhere. Such a huge thing, it gets all the water from all over the world, but it keeps its boundaries. It never crosses it, unless and until you press it.

That’s the sign of a magnanimous great personality: it keeps its boundaries – I mean, so far and not that – The dignity of it is – I don’t know if there’s a word like maryada in English language – is the boundaries of decency and decorum.

Then it gives you the rain. It gives you the basis of your food. Sea is the father. And where do they meet, really in the most beautiful way, the sea and the Mother Earth? They meet at the Sahasrara on the Himalayas where all the clouds freeze and cover completely the Mother Earth, where there is snow all over, on the Alps. It’s complete purity.

These are too subtle things for people who are not seeking, but I’m talking to seekers. You have to be subtler people to understand the beauty of the sea, its poetry of a guru. When it roars, you see, the roaring of the sea challenges you: “Come up my child, come up my disciple, come up, come along.”

To Me sea is like a father. I’ve traveled by sea so much, so much. And anytime I have traveled it has carried Me like a very gentle mother. Never a bad weather, such a nice weather. Always. It’s so kind, it’s so kind to Me. Once I was coming from Japan and they said, “There are typhoons coming.” Five typhoons were coming. They never touched My ship. Nowhere. People were amazed. And we were coming to Bombay from Colombo, when we turned round it was monsoon. They said, “Now.” The captain was quite amazed, you see. He said, “But now, you cannot help it. The wind will go in the other direction and we are going to have a bad time.” But what a smooth lake, just like a mirror, beautiful! Just like a gentle mother. It carried Me on its sari I felt. So beautiful.

And such a sea you insult, because you are ignorant, because you are blind. I wish the sea forgives you, but gurus do not forgive easily. Mother is different. Gurus are hard taskmasters, you see. They normally do not forgive you.

Now you have heard about Ravi Shankar who is a great musician who plays sitar. I know when he was studying in – he was in the beginning a student of Allauddin Khasa. Allauddin Khasa was a Realized soul, a great man, a genius, a genius he was. Absolutely a real guru, you should say. He never drank. And he was a Muslim but a worshipper of Kali, you see, and all that. And he used to call Me “Ma.” Mother.

I was with My father who was the political adviser to that State, Maihar [Madhya Pradesh]. I mean you could see he was really so subtle in everything! And he used to play that big drum which he said the best is produced in Maihar, that’s why he settled down there, what we call is the “pakhawaj” is the very big drum, you see.

He used to play tremendously. He used to just go on into such echoes and beautiful rendering. And he was a master of so many things like sarod – his son himself is Ali Akbar Khan Sahib. His daughter Annapurna is a great singer and all that.

And I remember Allauddin, when we went there, he used to respect My father very much and – also because My father was a great connoisseur of music and a Realized soul himself, a great man.

So, once he was going to play the pakhawaj and Ravi Shankar was also sitting there you see, hiding his face on the sides. So when he had played his pakhawaj, My father said: “Why don’t you also play some sitar to me, I would like to see how much you have learned.”

He said: “No, no, sir, not today, not today.” So then he went inside, for something – the guru.

He [Ravi] said: “See, are you going to see here something?” He [father] said: “What?”

“Big lump, you see, was here”, he said: “He has broken my sitar on my head today because I played two notes wrongly. See sir.” [Laughter]

That was the thing. The gurus are very, very, strict people, they have to be. And the way they used to treat the disciples. It’s not like this. The gurus you know are the gurus who are trying to pamper your ego. Why? Because they want your purse. They don’t want to enlighten you. They say, “All right, what, you drink? All right, doesn’t matter. I can give you more. Whatever you want I’ll give you. Just pass the purse this side, that’s all. Why do you want to have these, metal, this… some metal-like, metallic things like a, say a Rolls Royce? What’s the use, this metal thing? You pass it over to me. I’ll look after it. What is the need for you to have possessed this grand palace? Pass it over to me. I’ll look after – you must give up everything for me. I’ll enlighten you.”

Even if you may have palaces and anything, the real guru will not look at your face. He never hankers after people, never. That’s the sign of a real guru: that he doesn’t hanker after you: “Come along to me, come along to me. All right, how many people are coming? Now have an organization and run a big mission about it.” And then the people are coming and write your names and you become the members of the society and all that.

A real guru will sit in some odd place, where you have to go seven miles up, walking, falling, somewhere hidden, and there you go and you find he’s not there. [Laughter]You break your legs on the way.

[Shri Mataji laughs, laughter]

But they know so many things. According to them, you are not to be treated that kindly. And they tell Me that “Mother, what is Your whim?”. And “We can’t understand. For us, we had to work so hard to get these vibrations.” One gentleman has told that: “I was a frog. Since then I’ve been seeking. And I’ve spent how many years I don’t know, so many thousand years to get vibrations, while Mother has just given you like this! What is your speciality? Are you going to give your life for Mother?” And all sort of questions. [She laughs]

So I asked him: “Why did you tell them? I don’t want their life. What’s the use of their life? I want their Spirit.”

He said, “But why these?” I said, “Are you jealous?” [Laughter]

They say that “Mother, You carry on with them. We can’t face this, human beings are horrible.” And I’ve told you that I asked one person to go to America, he ran away, within two days. Within two days. He would not face Americans – the real ones. The unreal ones are very nice, you see. There’s mutual understanding going on.

So these hard taskmasters are so beautiful. From outside they look so harsh. Inside, they are so beautiful. You must know how to please them.

For example, I went to see one guru once and all the boys were against it. He said, “Mother, we don’t believe in any guru, why are you going to see?”

I said, “I don’t believe in any guru, who told you? I believe in all the gurus. I don’t believe in the agurus.” I said, “You see the vibrations.” We had to climb up and this and that, and we went down there. And it was raining heavily, very heavily. And the guru was very angry he was sitting there, because he could control water, I told you. He could control rain, you know. So when I went up he was doing like this, very angry. He wouldn’t even look at Me. I went and sat down, all drenched in water with that rain.

He said, “Why did You not allow me to stop the rain, is it because of my ego that You wanted to punish me? I didn’t want You to get drenched when You are coming to see me.” What a great thing. I mean he talked to Me as if he knew Me, you see, the way he talked. He said, “Not even my gurus and gurus never had such an opportunity that You are coming to see me, and I was just prepared here, and here You are coming all drenched. What a shame for me I could not control this rain. It’s all Your doing Mother, why did You do it?” I said, “Should I tell you why I did it?” He said, “Why?” I said, “You see, you have bought a sari for Me, isn’t it? And I would not take a sari from a sanyasi; but if I get drenched, then I’ll have to take.” [Laughter]

The whole thing melted away. The whole thing, the whole temper, everything melted away. It was so sweet, you know, so sweet. There was an artist with Me, who has done the painting. So beautiful, showing the love, you see. He just fell at My Feet. He said, “Mother, people have praised You. What words should I use to praise You?”

I said, “Nothing. Your sari, you bring it for Me. First of all, I must wear your sari, I’m all drenched.” So happy. It’s so beautiful the whole thing. This is what it is.

You all have to be the gurus. I know, first thing you learn is to be very, great hard taskmasters, to begin with. That you should not do. You have to be hard taskmaster with yourself. And then, as your Mother, Who is your Guru, is very sweet and tolerant, very kind, extremely patient. You have to deal with people like that. Because we are not dealing with people who are seekers of that quality, who will do anything to get to God. We are dealing with people who are confused, absolutely confused. They are saints, but they are confused. See, people come to our program, disappear. They’ll get their Realization and disappear. Then you have to give them bandhans, this thing. You see, they are still confused. And there are so many gurus who are acting, there are so many things that are happening, so we cannot be aggressive with them. We have to be very patient, and we have to think about our past, how we came to Mother, how She had to convince us, how much we argued with Her, what all we did. So these people are coming, let us try to be kind to them and talk to them, and tell in a way which is congenial, which is beautiful.

Not like those gurus because they had only one guru, and one disciple, do you know that? The relationship was only one plus one. And that one also used to come down, many-a-times. Like one person I know, whom I met, he’s told Me, “I have only one disciple and I’ve given him up. He’s thrown in the sea, he’s useless.”

I said, “What happened?”

He said, “I trained him up for twenty-five years and he’s a good-for-nothing fellow. Now he’s having a nice time, earning money. He’s a Realized soul, just imagine. And he’s having a nice time and he’s making money out of it. This is the last story I’ll tell you.”

I said, “All right, where is he?” He told Me his name, this Maharaj. I said, “All right, I’ll see him, don’t you worry.”

And when this fellow came in Bombay, one lady telephoned to Me, “Mother, you wanted to meet this Maharaji, he’s coming to my house.”

I said, “All right, tell him I’m coming to see him.”

I went down to see him, he was smoking cigarettes like this, sitting like this. “Oh Mataji has come, very nice” and all that.

He, of course, I mean he touched My feet like this, “All right, sit down.” And there were ladies pressing his feet and all that and he was talking to them very… trying to show lot of arrogance in My presence. I was just looking at him.

Then he said, “Oh. So, my guru comes to see You in Bombay. Why is he leaving his place? Why should he do this?”. And all sorts of thing he was talking, against his guru.

I said, “All right, now I’m going, but I will put some sindoor on your head, just to put a tilak on your head,” I said. So I took some sindoor, put it on his head; Agnya Chakra I moved it. Then I said, “Now you put.”

When he start put… I sucked his hand, you see completely, and he started, “Ahee-hee-hee-hee-hee he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he-he.” He said, “Mother, Mother what are You doing, what are You doing?”

I said, “What am I doing? Will you please take back all the words you have said about your guru? You have no shame. Twenty-five years that man worked on you and you’re bringing all the shame here. Will you remove your hand?”

He said, “I can’t, I can’t, I can’t! What are You doing to me?”

I said, “Unless and until you promise that you will not say a word against your guru and hold your ears, with the another hand, or with your legs [She laughs], then only I’ll leave you.” (Laughter) He said, “I’m sorry, I’m sorry, You will drop…?”

Now the others didn’t see all this conversation, you see, they just saw his shaking, you see. When I went away he said, “See, how powerful I am? See.” [Laughter] Fools as they were, they never realized that he was shaking, and what shaking means, you see? And he made such a fool out of them. He took from everyone, one and a quarter tola [ed: tola is an old Indian weight equal to 180 grains, 0.375 troy ounces.] gold, you see, as a dakshina, guru dakshina, and said that “See, even Mataji – I was getting all Her powers into me, sucking all Her Powers into me.” [Laughter] And these fools believed him, you see. And then one of them met Me at the airport and she told Me that “He’s taken away so much money from us. That day only he made us pay for one and a quarter tola gold for the guru dakshina.”

I said, “All right, I’ll see him one day, again.” But all of them were doomed like that. So, this is what it is. And he’s so attractive to people, you know. And then he was sitting on a very big thing and the thousands are approaching him, there. But then I did some arrangements. Now he’s all right, in the jail, direct [laughter]. In the jail, direct. That’s what it is.

But we had one Sahaj Yogini like this. She got her Realization and I told her, “Your guru was no good and you don’t take anything from him, because he’ll try to give you some siddhis and you will try to impress people.”

She said, “No, no Mother, I want the parama, I want the last, the absolute, I don’t want all that.” Because her guru used to carry some snakes around and do all kinds of tricks you see, go into tantrums.

When I went to America, I heard about her, that she’s having three thousand disciples; I never had them in Bombay that time. I used to hardly get about two hundred people somehow or other sticking on to this… thing.

I said, “Three thousand. What is she doing?” I got really worried you know; I put her into bandhan and everything.

But when I came back, you won’t believe, she had silver water carriers you see, these pitchers, she brought to wash My Feet and this. I was so embarrassed, so embarrassed. And she showed Me, “See Mother, what work I’m doing.” Such a big photograph of Mine there, put, and all the bhoots around. I could see all them hovering, you see, all of them. [Laughter]

I said, “What is she doing? What work has she been doing and what is she up to? Because she’s completely gone darkened and haunted.” I asked her, “What are you doing with these people?”

“Oh Mother, you don’t know. I’ve spread Your name there. I can even tell people if they have lost their property somewhere, wherever is the hidden money, or I tell so many things…. I can even tell the name of the horse which is going to come first.” [Laughter] I said, “Very nice. What a nice Sahaj Yoga is going on here,” you see? So I told her, “All right, you come and see Me tomorrow at home.” She came down. I had two-three people sitting, I said, “All right, tell about them.” She said, “You live near a bridge.”

He said, “No, never, I live near a sea. How can you bridge a sea?” Then she said this, that. He said, “No, nothing.”

Then she told another lady. She said, “Nothing.”

Third person said, “Nothing, this is not true. You are just telling something that is not true.”

So she rushed to Me, “Mother, have You taken away all my powers?” [Laughter]

I said, “If they were your powers I would have made you sit here. These are the powers of the devil. What interest God has got to tell that ‘What is the horse coming,’ and all that? [Laughter] Why should you tell all these things? These are not your powers, these are the powers of the spirits which are haunting you, and which you have captured, and your guru is doing all this job.”

“Oh God, I never knew.”

I said, “It is that. All right, say that ‘I give up. I give up.’ Say it thrice.”

She said, “All right, I’ll say, Mother. I want the parama, I want the absolute”. She went home, but you know this popularity, this cheap popularity, is a very enticing thing. She again carried on, and now she is in the lunatic asylum. This is what it is. Because these spirits which help you, come back on you and torture you.

So all those people who try to deviate, even after Realization, are corrected by the principle of guru only. With the principle of Agnya, you give Realization, enlightenment. With the principle of Sahasrara you give integration, but with the principle of guru you give them dharma. That’s why so many people, all of you who came to Me, have very easily given up all these habits, because you have found the Spirit, the joy. And then you don’t want all that. I don’t have to tell you that you have to give up, you just give up, you just forget it, because your attention is now attached to your Spirit.

That is the job of a guru. It is said that: “Guru is that which makes you meet the Sahib.” Means: “makes you meet the Lord.” He’s the guru. Otherwise all these are not gurus. But the one who has not even settled your dharmas, who does not have his own dharmas, how can you accept them as gurus?

May God bless you all.

[Start of 3: informal talk to seekers]

Shri Mataji [about a young child]: This is a born Realized child. [Shri Mataji laughs]

Hello, how are you? Hum, what are they catching? He is showing from his feet. All over right side Sahasrara.

Right side Sahasrara means what? Superego. It comes to the right [of the brain]. All feeling the heaviness on the right side, the little child is showing.

They are working, they are busy all the time. All the time they are busy. Gavin’s child’s such a little thing… all the time. [Laughter, She laughs] Trying to clear you out – great people they are. All the time they are working. That’s why I want you all to get married soon, with so many great children are to be born to you.

All right, I can make it cool for you, it’s all right, don’t you worry.


You have to think of the Moon who is your maternal uncle. He was born with Lakshmi. There are fourteen things that were born from the sea. One of them is also a hunter. The stick Gregoire gave Me yesterday was also, came out of the sea. That was the fourteenth thing.

Better now?

Now, those who have come for the first time should come forward, you see, it’s better in the forward line somewhere, would be better and the second line could be – it’s all right. These people have come for the first time, all of you?

All right, can you come on these first three lines, all right. Now who else is there? Please, come forward.

As you know, Sahaja Yoga is a very subtle thing and the main thing is it must work, it must actualize, the Kundalini must rise. You must get your Realization, that’s the main concern is. Whatever you may say, whatever your arguments may be or any problems may be, we are not bothered about that. What we are bothered about: that you should meet yourself. That’s the main point we are at, and that’s what we have to achieve.

Now the problems arise out of our imbalances in life and so many things. Whatever it is, still, the force is so great, that you will get your Realization. Why I’m telling you? That I find people, once they get their Realization, they think it’s done now, we are happy, then they don’t come. It’s just the germination has taken place, the Kundalini has shot off, because She’s been waiting all these days, you see, so the whole thing comes up as a big experience.

But that doesn’t mean that you have established it.

So the second thing you have to do is to establish, that’s very important. Much more important than getting Realization I feel, because the Realization, if it takes place and it falls down, then what’s the use?

So you take your Realization, which you’ll get, no doubt about it, because you all look that way. But, then you must have self-esteem and understand that you have got it because you deserved it. Some people haven’t got it in India who have been with Me for seven years, but you’ll get it I’m sure. That I can see clearly, you are all going to get it. But that doesn’t mean if you get it, that you again waste it, because this is what you have been seeking all your lives.

Because in the West the problem is: though such saints are born, they have this rambling of the brain and they start thinking. You do not get it through your rationality. You get it through your Kundalini, which you cannot think about. So you allow it to grow, manifest itself, and you become as good as others are.

Now they are all experts and gurus, you know, they know such a lot about Kundalini. You’ll be amazed, they are all experts, they look just like you! They are raising Kundalini, they are giving Realization, they know everything about it.

So in the same way, you have to be. It’s a very simple thing which takes place at any age, any time, any race, anything. The main thing is that you must have self-esteem, you must know that you are saints. You have been saints for years and you have been ages like this. You have been seeking and seeking and seeking. Now when you have found it, you allow it to grow, because it’s very important, and you must know your value. That is important. Because I value you, because I see something much deeper that you can’t see. But you don’t see that, gradually you’ll start seeing, all right? On this promise, I’ll give you Realization.

Put your hands like this. Put both the feet on the ground, straight. Sometimes I find, you see I’ve worked very hard on people and they get lost, I feel very sorry for that.

Left Swadishthana, you see [She laughs] – give him…

Like a saint he’s sitting here, great guru. [About a child]

Now put your hands towards Me, like this, and close your eyes.

Please close your eyes.

Now what happens is that first you become thoughtlessly aware, nirvichar samadhi. Samadhi means enlightened awareness. You get enlightened awareness which is thoughtless. You become thoughtlessly aware. First.

And in the second happening, when it crosses the Agnya it happens to you, and when it crosses, pierces through this point called as taloo, the fontanel bone area, you start feeling the radiation of your Spirit in your hands, like vibrations.

Are you feeling the cool breeze in your hands? Already you’ve got it!

You haven’t. There’s a little problem. All right, watch Me here, little bit. There? Hm. Without thinking, just watch Me, it will work out.

Whatever I’ve said, you forget it. You see, if you have taken drugs doesn’t matter, don’t worry. I can drink all that; just suck it out. Don’t you worry about all these things, forget, have no guilt of any kind, for heaven’s sake. I’m talking of Ocean of Love which is ocean. What guilt can you have? Just a speck. So please, do not have any guilt, on the contrary say to Me that “Mother, we are not guilty – I’m not guilty.” In your heart, just say that. That’s the only catching point in you.

It’s a fashion also, these days, to feel guilty about anything. Now close your eyes. Please close your eyes. Know that you are not guilty at all, that you are very beautiful.

Right to the left. Move right to the – keep your eyes…. are you feeling? It will work out. Just let it be, let it be, you see, let it go, let it go. Close your eyes. You must get it. Not to get upset with yourself. Are you criticizing yourself? Are you?

Seeker: Just frightened.

Shri Mataji: Eh?

Seeker: Just frightened.

Yogis: Frightened.

Shri Mataji: Frightened, about what? About the beauty that you have? Not to be frightened at all. Nothing to be frightened. Do I look frightful?

Seeker: Nothing.

Shri Mataji: Ha?

Seeker: Nothing.

Shri Mataji: All right. Now close, close your eyes.

No, there’s nothing to be frightened, it’s the easiest thing that can happen, absolutely it is there, it’s like the germination of a seed. Just close your eyes, nothing to be frightened. Just let it go, let it go, that’s all. Is the simplest thing.

She’s got it. Just like that.

You have to be frightened of pubs and things like that, you know. I’m really frightened of pubs.

Right to the left. Move (?) left to the right. Let’s feel his vibrations, come along. Some of you come along. No, at the back.

Just sit down, sit down. They’ll just work it out. Close your eyes, close your eyes, they are just helping you out, just close your eyes. Just – you see, it is like, they know the swimming and they are just trying to help you. Once you are on the shore, they’ll also teach you how to swim and then you are going to save others.

Hm. Work on him.

Close your eyes, don’t think about it. Just enjoy, this is the greatest thing you’ve got it.

Sahasrara, right. No, no, it’ll work out, don’t you worry, we know your problem. Just don’t – close your eyes. We know your problem.

Right to the left. We know your problem, we know everything where that’s happening. Just close your eyes. There’s nothing to be frightened, I mean, what’s going to happen?

Somebody is frightening you inside. That’s what it is, I must say. There’s nothing to be frightened.

Sakshat Moksha Dayini, Aham sakshat Moksha Dayini Aham sakshat Moksha Dayini. Sakshat Moksha Dayini Aham sakshat Moksha Dayini Aham sakshat Moksha Dayini Aham sakshat Moksha Dayini Aham sakshat Moksha Dayini Aham sakshat Moksha Dayini Aham sakshat Moksha Dayini Aham sakshat Moksha Dayini Aham sakshat Moksha Dayini. Aham sakshat Moksha Dayini Aham sakshat Moksha Dayini Aham sakshat Moksha Dayini Aham sakshat Moksha Dayini.

With hand. The… Marcus, just stand up and pull it out.

It’s working on him. It’s all right, they are working it out. It’s started, now don’t… It’s started, already has started now. Close your eyes. It’s working out. Don’t you worry. It’s working out. She’s got it very well.