Lethargy Most Anti-God

Chelsham Road Ashram, London (England)

1980-09-27 Talk to Sahaja Yogis, Lethargy Most Anti-God, Chelsham Road Ashram, London, transcribed, 91' Download subtitles: EN,NLView subtitles:
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“Lethargy Most Anti-God”. Chelsham Road Ashram, London (UK), 27 September 1980.

…and he talked about the tour, how successful it was, I wish you could have heard it before I started this lecture of Mine today. But yesterday I was talking about two things, which we have to do in England, which one should understand, you see. Because every country has its own problems and we do absorb the problems.

[Shri Mataji speaks aside in Hindi sounds like “Left hamari aur kar. Left hand, ha.] [In Hindi: Point your left hand towards Me, point your right hand outwards].

Now the thing is our work is spreading very fast and people are taking to it. In Europe I find the land is much more fertile, surprisingly and once people get realization they become fantastic, I mean they think it’s something that they have been expecting and they understand Sahaj Yoga much better than we understand here. Though your Kundalinis rise very high, I’ve seen that, but the progress is not that all right.

Now Ray has been to India, he’ll tell you how, what sort of people we have in India and how they have progressed themselves. Now as I said the main problem of our country is lethargy and lethargy is something we have to overcome somehow and this lethargy is a, actually a satanic force. It’s not lethargy only of the matter that comes from material domination on the Spirit, but it is really satanic because it stops your progress and is to be avoided. And to get out of it one has to be really alert about it, how it crawls onto you. Krishna has put, the worst vice in the whole world is “aalasya”, means lethargy. “Aalasyso Bijayate” – everything comes out of aalasya. According to Him, first the lethargy comes in and because of lethargy we get into vices and then we go to the right side also because of lethargy. Because just to avoid the lethargy we go to the right side too much. So according to Him everything starts with lethargy and then the person loses the essence of life through lethargy and this is our special quality and that is our real problem – is the lethargy.

Because Sahaj Yoga is a thing where we say there is “akriya”. We don’t have to do anything. It is effortless. Everything works out effortless, spontaneously. So we think that everything is going to work out for us spontaneously. Only the Kundalini Jagruti is spontaneous for the first time, not for the second time, only for the first time. That is I have to do it or My photograph has to do it. But afterwards you have to work, you have to keep your Kundalini afloat. You have to understand what are your problems, what are you getting into. I mean, individually every one of you is a masterpiece, individually. Because of lethargy you are clouded.

Secondly because of lethargy you are secluded, lethargy gives you also ego. Because anything that challenges lethargy you get on top of that person, you don’t like such a person. But the lethargy also those do not have are the people their attention is not on spiritual development. Theirs is as I told you yesterday, on other things, which are not important to spiritual life. We pay so much attention to other things than to our spiritual life. Why is it? Why is it we pay more attention to material things, to material comforts, to material achievements, to material obsessions? Why? You must think about it. And why not to our spiritual ascent? The reason is we have been identified with matter. We have been going through that circle. We thought that we must have material development, so we had industrial revolution, we created a society dominated by industries, machinery came up. We saw the machinery started dominating us. We wanted to misidentify from that machinery. Machinery has also given us lethargy because we use machine made things our hands do not work.

We have lost all the deftness of the hands; we have lost all the walking capacity. We can only take a bus or a car; we do not want to walk at all. Now this mechanization and the use of matter too much, has made us sort of matters ourself. We have become matter that we cannot live without it, it, yet we are so identified with it. After realization if you are still identified with the matter, then your realization slows down.

So to, one has to understand, one has to understand fully that matter is absolutely secondary. Without of course getting your body you cannot receive realization, you have to have your body. But matter which is gross, is of no meaning. Subtle matter is all right for us, that’s important. Like this light, which is burning, is important. Water that is in the ocean is all right. The sky, open sky – say here it is not so good but if you go to a country is even better. The Mother Earth say example here, I don’t know how it is, but in India certain places Mother Earth is very much subtle, your material identifications. So matter has been identified with us, we have been using it, living with it and that’s why it is easy for us to get back into the same circle of matter. And we get into it, we pay attention more to it. Now if I say, “Do not pay attention to it more,” then you go on to another side, in a subtler way you jump into vices.

Vices of – I can say uncleanliness, filth, dirt, mismanagement. So from one extreme to another extreme you go. Now in the center what is matter, we should understand, and we should try to then identify ourselves with our Spirit. Now what is matter? Let us find out. What is matter this. And what is created out of matter?

Matter you know is made out of five elements. You know the five elements, which have made this body of ours. And these five elements are on the right-hand side of the human beings and these five elements either push you towards the left side or pull you towards the right side. I mean to say that when your start using the matter gradually you become lethargic. You become slave to it, it forms a habit. If you use a chair then you cannot sit on the ground. If you are used to a comfortable life, you cannot live in an uncomfortable life. Sort of it slaves you. Secondly, if you try to overpower the matter, getting overactive with matter, you make everything properly and make everything nicely and everything; you are over efficient with the matter, then your ego develops and when your ego develops you go into violence. Because if you produce more, you have to be violent about it otherwise you do not know how to sell it. You become, sort-of an aggressive businessman or a country, which tries to sell the matter, which tries to overpower other nations with their material advancement. With violence you go little further, then what becomes out of you is nothing but you become materialistic.
And materialistic people have no heart. A materialistic person has no heart. He is just dried up. [10.02] He only understands money, money and money. He doesn’t go beyond it. So too much attachment to money is also materialistic, waste of money is also materialistic; mismanagement of money is the worst of all. So to be materialistic is your nature. You have started with it. That’s human nature to be materialistic because we have started with matter. But it is also the human nature to ascend. As it is natural to be a beast, it is more natural to be a Sahaj Yogi. So both things are part of the nature. Now which way you go is the thing. Now the ladder can take you up or can bring you down. If you have to go up your eyes should be upward.

Now these five elements create what within you? They create the five chakras within you or you can say the six chakras are created out of these five elements. And these five elements, when they create the chakras then they also give us a support to have the deities’ aasana, a seat for the deities to come in. So they are important. But if you have to give a deity a seat, you do not give some sort of a filthy seat. You give a nice, the best seat, whatever is available, to the deity. So you must know that when you are using the matter, see the auspiciousness of it. You have to know the auspiciousness of things that you are using, whether it is auspicious or not. At random we buy clothes. At random we buy things. If you could use your vibratory awareness to buy your things to see what you should buy, what would look nice because beauty and auspiciousness goes hand in hand. They are not two things. Because beauty is a thing that gives joy to your Spirit, auspiciousness is the same, which gives joy to your Spirit. All other beauty is no beauty

So for a Sahaj Yogi it is necessary to use all the matters, which are auspicious. Now auspicious matters, whatever are there, which are important matters must be kept at a higher level always. For example say My photograph, is very auspicious. Then you don’t put it on the ground, then don’t trample over it. In that also there are gradations of auspiciousness. But now your clothes because you are saints now, are very important. You are saints do you realize? Do you realize your self-esteem? You are saints now. What clothes you wear, you are not vagabonds. You are not tramps. You are not on the street. So you have to wear dignified dress. I have told everyone of you that, “Wear something dignified, not indignified.” It has to be majestic, because you are a saint now. You are no more a person running on the street, you are the selected saints by God. So the dress you wear need not be absurd or something funny but should give you dignity. Not any false but a real dignity. You see the vibrations of a dress. Wear your country’s dress. You need not wear somebody else’s dress or something, but the interest in the dress should be that it should give you dignity and a sense of respectability.

It is to preserve your respect that you have to wear a dress. That is the utility of a dress.

And now you go to another thing, anything that you are using, for example your house. Your house should be a house of cheerfulness, a house of dignity where people come in, they have comfort, they sit comfortably.
But too much comfort is against Sahaj Yoga. But spartan also is not necessary that you do not have anything to spread on the ground or something. It should be comfortable. But it should not be comfort personified, because comfort creeps on you.

Comfort is one thing is better for English people to avoid completely, is very good for them not to allow the body to get into comfortable positions. Specially bathroom addiction is too much in English people I have seen it. It is so much so I was so surprised that if I go supposing to a reception I can tell you whether it is owned by an Englishman or by somebody else. If it is owned by an Englishman, the bathroom will be done up very well, there will be towel for everything, soap for everything, I mean they are extremely particular. And immediately I know that it is done by some English gentleman, because they are very bathroom conscious. Though they do not take baths. I have seen houses with sixty bedrooms and no bath in England only. Now of course they have started. Bathing is not their quality. But bathroom – they are very particular.

And even if you put an easy chair they wouldn’t mind sitting in a bathroom. And as far as bathroom is concerned one should just form such habits, that within ten minutes you should be out from the bathroom. Now when I say you have to take your baths, that doesn’t mean that early in the morning go and take a shower, it doesn’t mean that. You should take a bath at a time when you’ll have one hour before going out, but that also from auspicious point of view. Now you are saints, so use water as much as you can. Wash your hands ten times is very essential. To get your vibrations all right, you must wash your hands. But now in India there are people who wash their hands countingly sixty four times. And I always warn about the another side of it, like doctors go on washing their hands. In the same way, there are some people who go on washing their hands. You need not take out the skin out of your hands. But as many times as you wash your hands, it is a good thing. I mean you are saints but you are children. And I have to talk to you as to the children who are saints. It’s a big complication. While you are grown up people and sometimes you might feel hurt also, the way I have to tell you, but this is important that you have to understand that, “We are saints and as saints, what we have to do as far as the matter is concerned.”

Now in a house there should be no dearth. Dearth is not the sign of a saintliness. Miserliness: dearth – you come to somebody’s house and you find a miserable beggary hole. That kind of a thing should not be. You must have proper plates, proper things or a broken plate somewhere, no. All these things should be clean, neat, maybe handmade, or even if you don’t get handmade, but they should be clean, auspicious. If you can get handmade things, nothing like it. That’s a very good idea if you can get hand made things and if you can use them it’s very good.

I think we went to see Gandhiji’s ashram, didn’t we? You saw it was a simple place but very well done, everything. And that way Japanese are very good at these things; one has to learn a lot from them. You have to learn from so many people and because of Zen influence, the Japanese picked up the aesthetics of life. Very simple house they will have but everything very comfortable. And they know how to make the house look beautiful and how to make people feel comfortable.

[Shri Mataji speaks aside] Matter is to be treated with respect because it is created by God. But whatever is respected is to be respected – not everything. Everything in the matter is not to be respected. For example, if you see some sort of a painting, which is, which is not auspicious, is not auspicious. You should refuse to see such a painting. You should avoid seeing such painting because it is not going to give you any joy, any happiness, nothing. It’s not going to work out. <

Now one of the things which people always tell Me that in … “Sahaj Yogis do not have a presence.” This is a very important thing. The presence is done by matter. Now our presence, if it is not all right people can make it out. All things that are in us, if they become auspicious will have a presence. Wherever we’ll stand people will know there’s a presence. And this presence is a blessing of the matter to us. So you must respect matter in the sense what clothes you wear. Throwing clothes on the ground, throwing here and there, living like a donkey, like a pigsty, is not the way a Sahaj Yogi should live. He has to be orderly; he has to respect his clothes. But it should not be that you respect your clothes so much that you throw away others’ clothes. The others are Sahaj Yogis also. You have to respect each other because you are all saints. If you respect yourself you have to respect others.

And once you start respecting the matter, which is the essence in you, that is attention. The essence of matter is attention. Attention gives you the presence. For example – recently Marie was with Me. While translating Me, she suddenly saw some flowers here and there, she started putting them right. It created a very funny situation. Everybody started seeing what’s matter with this woman? But now she’s understood it. And now I told her that, “When you are speaking you should say it with full concentration. Your attention, where is your attention?”

If your attention is on money, even if I am talking about the highest things you’ll be thinking about money. If your attention is on something else, even if I am talking to something, you will be thinking of something else. That’s why our presence should be such that nobody’s attention is diverted or deluded. You understand My point? If your presence is funny, like a joker or a clown or a funny, untidy, everybody’s attention will be disturbed. If you are overly dressed also the attention will be disturbed. But if you are completely a presence then wherever you stand, people will feel there is somebody standing, great. The respect flows, actually respect flows. And it is something so remarkable that you don’t know how people try to help you then and how it works out.

Your attention if it is dominated by matter, people can make it out. And that is one thing has to look after very clearly because these are countries who have advanced so much in material advancement. So what happens, every matter attracts your attention. You go on the street there’s this one woman is standing or there is something selling, this happening. All the time the attention … You see it is their job to attract your attention, otherwise how are they going to exploit you? See, they will have no justification. So they produce things, advertise things, to do in such a way to distract your attention. Now this is a force, which is acting against our attention. So as far as possible keep your attention straight, or on the Mother Earth. If you can control your attention, you can overcome your material domination.

Now the best thing is to put attention to your Spirit. If you start putting your attention to Spirit, the sweetness of the Spirit itself will make the whole thing very sweet and beautiful. The attention should be in the Spirit. Even you are getting ready; keep the attention on the Spirit. Now it’s not difficult because Kundalini has reached that stage. Before realization if I had said it, then you would have said, “Mother, how to do it?” But now when you have got realization, try to bring your attention to Spirit. Means first when the Kundalini rises you start looking at the Spirit or you say when you get realization you see the Spirit. In the sense that the Spirit starts flowing through you, you start watching its flowing in this thing. But then after some time, you must enter into Spirit and [DEL: see,] see through the window of the Spirit, the whole thing by developing your witness Spirit. If you develop your witness state, from attention you become knowledge, the truth. Then material things become the knowledge; aesthetics of matter start giving you joy. You do not want to possess it, but they start giving you joy and even if you want to posses it, it would be just to enjoy it and give it away to somebody else. It’s like that. It’s for your enjoyment and you want to give it away to someone else.

When you develop your witness state this will come to you that you will not keep things to yourself but you would like to give and share, sharing. That is the time you should know you have become a witness, because you are enjoying. Witness state is the state of Shri Krishna, of Virat. When you start sharing your things then it is a proper thing.

Now the essence of puja is also how to overcome our material grossness. Puja is nothing but is how to overcome our material grossness. When we want to have a matter to ourselves, we must know that it is given to us by God. Everything belongs to God. Supposing we give flower to God, after all it is God’s own creation, what are we giving? We show light to God or do ‘aarti’ to God. What? It is all God’s light only, what do we do?

But by showing light to God, what we do is to, we worship light within us. The light element gets enlightened within us. The light element is here on the Agnya. When you do aarti, or when you put light before God, when you show light to God, the light element within you gets enlightened. When you give flowers, Mooladhara gets enlightened. When you get honey, then your attention gets enlightened.

So, why we give it to God, after all God doesn’t need anything.

But God is the enjoyer. You are not the enjoyer, you cannot enjoy. Enjoyer is God. In you, when God is there that enjoys, that is the Spirit. So whatever pleases your Spirit is used in the puja to be given. Now you give rice – all these things are discovered – that you give rice to the Devi. Rice should be put in Her lap. Now what is rice, a little rice to a Devi? Is, by putting rice, in you the satisfaction of getting food or food that gives you satisfaction is enlightened.

But that doesn’t mean you start showering things on Me, that doesn’t mean that. What I am trying to say, do it with dignity and understanding. That you give Me rice. Now, rice giving – these people don’t understand why rice is to be given to God? After all, why give Him palm leaves? What is He going to do? If Christ was the Son of God. What was the use of putting palm leaves for Him? Or to give Him oil, oil bath or to rub His feet with oil?

It is for you to get the advantage. Now in Sahaj yoga it is proved now. When you rub My feet, you feel better, not Me. You rub My hands, you feel better. When you fall at My feet, you feel better. She, she is a great – what was, what is, what were you doing?

Lady: Reflexology.

Shri Mataji: Reflexology. Big name, ah? Reflexology. And she is supposed to know about the feet and things like that.

One day she said, “Mother I want to come and massage Your feet. I know this and all that.”

So I said, “All right, come along.” So she came to rub My feet. Instead of I feeling, becoming relaxed, she was becoming relaxed. The more she was rubbing she was getting relaxed.

So you see when you do for God, the blessings comes to you. You are blessed. Whatever is the problem with you, you give to God to solve. Also whatever satisfies you, you give to God. The satisfaction comes to you.

Now, these flowers when you give it to Me, Mooladhara. They give you two things, Swadishthana and Mooladhara. Flowers that’s why are very important. They give Swadishthana, if the flowers are beautiful, then they give Swadishthana and if they are fragrant they cure your Mooladhara. Now, I mean there is no end to flowers also. But think about it, that you are doing it to improve your chakras.

Then other things that are used like say ghee. Ghee is used. It is for Vishuddhi. Shri Krishna is very fond of ghee and butter. So when you rub My feet with say butter, your Vishuddhi will improve, you know that. Not Mine, I have no problem. I have only one problem that you are within Me and when you have problem I have problems. Because these vibrations have to go to you. So I prepare vibrations here as an antidote and they have to flow. It’s a very subtle thing to understand.

To move from gross to Spirit, this is the thing by which you move, because first you enlighten your chakras. By enlightening your chakras, your deities get happy, prasanna. By making the deities happy, you keep; get a passage for the Kundalini to pass through.

By making the passage for the Kundalini, the Kundalini goes up and then your attention starts becoming one with the Spirit. It is step by step, you move from matter to subtler matter, from subtler matter to your chakras, from chakras to deities, from deities to the Spirit. Then Spirit enjoys itself. So there you do not have to do anything. Just give your Spirit to Spirit.

That’s why these things were prescribed. Now people could not see this linkage. They thought that, “Why should we give anything to God? After all it is all His own.” The argument started. “Why should we put lights? There is no need.” But this is an escape. Where are you, at what stage? You are at a stage; you are at a stage where you have to detach yourself from matter. Same with Sahaj Yoga, I find it that you must understand the complete vision of Sahaj Yoga. It’s a very big thing you are doing. You are not small.

You are doing a very great work, because it is “the” solution of all the humanity. This is the solution of all the problems, whether political, economic or anything, whatever you call it.

Is not only that but the more people you have, you will be surprised, I’ll work out much better. Collectively I can cure cancer if you are more, if you are clear people. But your channels are so full of problems that nothing flows through you. If you get yourself cleared out, collectively I can stop cancer spreading, because if you spread more vibrations, what happens that the left and right side in Virat becomes clearer and the attack from the left and right side which creates cancer, all these horrible diseases, will be less. Because there will be less.

But you do not understand your responsibility what you are doing. You are playing into the hands of satanics. By not paying attention to your cleaning, by not paying attention to your spiritual growth, you are not helping Me at all because these vibrations do not flow out. They have to flow through you. If I could manage them there was no need for Me to run after you. It has to flow through you, you are the channels and if you do not keep yourself clean and humble and meek about it, it doesn’t work out. You are not helping Me at all by that. So the localized problem of yours limited problems, should be given up and see to the bigger problems that you’ll be solving. I can stop the happening of cancer completely if I have twenty-one thousand Sahaja Yogis.
Completely, Cancer will go out of  … leprosy I can control. Cancer already I am controlling, but it’ll go down, collectively also. I mean the statistics I’ve not seen but will go down.

It’s a left side attack and the more you try to go to left side there will be more attacks. Right side attacks are also lots of these wars. All these wars and all these things take place because we are invaded from the right side. All these aggressive people like Hitler and all that are aggressing us.

How much it is necessary for you to rise above your lower self. One should understand that and not to indulge into nonsense that you are doing. You have to really work hard for that. Even if you have to get up early in the morning, you have to get up and do it. You should understand your responsibilities, that’s the main point is. People are now busy only doing jobs, working here, how much money you get, how much do you go, when do you go to job and all that. That’s not important for us. Now that doesn’t mean you give up your jobs and be a liability on the ashram, it doesn’t mean that! It means you do your jobs, have money, money is needed for the work. I need money, you know that how much money we need for all this work. You have taken such a big project of going to Europe having this little money. It’s not possible. But we are doing it somehow. So, we need money, you have to earn, you have to give; you have to give money.

Here people are, they are not even willing to give ten pounds. Such people. With them where am I going to do Sahaj Yoga? We are so attached to money in a subtler way. We do not understand we have to give money and we have to do it up. Not only money, money’s not the only solution; we have to be ourselves channels. But then some people have money, then they are exploited in a wrong way and the money’s all wasted. This is precious money, this is auspicious money, this money goes into the right hands into right places.

Problems are created because of that. Now this money I do not need, you know that very well. But for your own betterment you have to give money. Ask Gavin he’ll tell you. He’s a very generous man and he, he found it very good. It’s not that I need a single pai from you. On the contrary I am willing to spend My own money on things, you know that definitely. But, you must understand this work has to be done, so you need money.

I need not tell you that you have to pay money. I have never said this to Indians, I have never told them. They have never given Me a problem you’ll be amazed. How they solve their problems God alone knows. They are not the people of money. There’s never a quarrel about money. Nobody talks about money, nobody tells Me anything, nothing of the kind. Nobody oppresses anyone or mishandles anyone or controls anyone, everybody does so well. Money is not with one person. Say about two, three people handle it. Everybody knows how much money they are taking.

This one part is important. For solving this problem you give Me rice. It’s called as “Oti bharne,” that you give Me rice I beg of you, actually. You put it in My sari. Rice, you give Me five times, I give you seven times back. That’s the symbol. You know how symbols work out. Even when you say, “Mother are you the Holy Ghost?” it works out, it gives you realization. If there is somebody so alert and sensitive sitting before you, you must know how to do the symbols, how to do them properly, with full maturity, understanding, in the proper way. You are very anxious to do the puja, but do you understand, before the puja always there’s a quarrel going on. Somebody who is a very possessed person will come, to begin with, and everybody will start fighting. Imagine! You must take your bath, “What are you doing?”

In the morning don’t talk to anyone. Be in hush condition. You are in for opening out to the great power, which is going to solve the problem of the world. So you cleanse yourself, you wash yourself; you cleanse yourself, so that you get your chakras evolved. People talked against it because they became only ritualistic, mechanical; matter became very important. Then only doing these things became important. But not now, you people are different. You are realized souls. That doesn’t mean that you should take to sanyasa or anything. You should, I’ve told you, you should live like normal people, but a very dignified people. Nothing of indignity, childishness, superfluousness or joker-like, clown-like, outstandingly funny, all these dresses should not be worn. You should be properly dressed in a way that you have a presence. I mean this is to a children I am telling you. You must have a presence of grown up Sahaja Yogis, You are all saints. You know such a lot even many saints do not know. You can go and ask so many of them.

There’s one thing they know that I am that. That’s one thing you do not know. They know that. This is a big difference. Because I am easily available to you, you do not understand. For them I am great. As I told you yesterday that how these saints have recognized and they have sent people to help Me. In saintliness only, your recognition of Me is poor. Because if it was not, you would not be shouting in My presence, quarrelling in My presence. You give Me headaches, you tell Me things, which you should not tell Me. “He knocked at my door,” somebody tells Me. He says “he came there, he did this,” another tells Me. You should not talk like this to Me.

You are materially again bound by talking. From where does the talk come from? Vishuddhi. Talk comes from Vishuddhi, but it starts from, the whole vani, the whole sound starts from much below. So, to raise it higher there are stages of this sound coming in. And when it becomes madhyama, is in the heart, in the heart region where it just throbs, you do not feel the throbbing. Then it comes here. Here it becomes vaikhari. Then it becomes pashyanti means it sees, it just sees. Then it becomes Para, where it becomes just silent in the aweness of the presence. We have to develop those things. But we do not understand that all these things are our attributes, which we have to enlighten and rise. And make every part, every petal of our being beautiful. If you start understanding these small, small things, which are very important because I am talking of very big things. But even a small thing can close your eyes completely.

It’s a very big vision I have, very big vision. And that vision can be done through you people. You do not think that you are ordinary. Otherwise I would never have chosen you. But you have no recognition of yourself also, as you have no recognition of Me. You have to recognize yourselves and respect yourself. Do not respect material things, respect yourself first of all and the matter within you. If [side 1 & 2 overlap in this paragraph] you move that way I think you’ll understand better what I am saying.

The body of a human being is a temple of God. But this temple has to be enlightened and has to be auspicious. You have to clear and clean your being completely so it’s a beautiful temple for God to reside there.

But we deceive ourselves, you see? When I am talking, you listen to Me and you think that “Oh, Mother talked very sweetly, beautifully,” finished. But nothing goes inside. Why? Because of lethargy. Lethargy is a thing, which is a barrier. It doesn’t allow Me to go inside you. It’s a barrier. It’s very sweet thing, which smiles, just you see thinking, “Oh, Mother is saying something nice, it’s very great,” it gives you happiness and all that, but it doesn’t go inside, you do not imbibe. And that’s why, try to put your attention to yourself and feel your dignity and honor.

Feel your presence that you have to have a presence and when I tell to some people, they’ll say, “I know, Mother, I know I do that.” Then why do you do it? That means you are possessed. You are a possessed person that you know this is wrong, still you are doing it. Then you are a possessed person. Then is better you beat yourself with shoes. But that stage should go now, I don’t like you to beat yourself with shoes, I mean are you that, that level? But the level is such still.

And your presence is the one that should give Prasannata, is the cheerfulness to others. Others should feel cheerful in your company. A presence is something, which you can understand. A presence has prudence. It understand how to behave in a particular thing. It is not imprudent like it won’t rush to a thing. It won’t jump on to a thing. If somebody is talking you just do not become absolutely dominating on that. When you talk, you do not talk in a way that is dramatic or sort of theatrical; or neither you talk in a way that is lunatic-like or something like that. Presence has its own balance in the center and that presence must be maintained. Presence is very important and just see yourself: are you having a presence? Some people are very good Sahaj Yogis, but they have no “go,” they have no dash, at all. They receive things, they see things, they should have a dash. They have to tell people, but in a way that is congenial, that is sweet, that is beautiful, that works is the point. If it does not work, what’s the use?

Now again I am going for seventeen days. Really seventeen days I’ll be out. I miss you all very much and I feel concerned so much, because you have to still grow quite a lot. I feel that among you there is no understanding of collectivity. A very irritable people; you get irritable with each other, how can you? You are all saints. You must respect each other; you must love each other, talk sweetly to each other. You are all saints! A saint meets another saint, how does he meet? Have you seen anytime, a real saint meeting another real saint? You should see. You do not look like that. The first proof is this. Are you really saints or not. He has gone to India, how they met you?

Yogi: Take really hold of me.

Shri Mataji: See?

Yogi: I couldn’t believe him …

Shri Mataji: How they meet each other! They’ll hug each other and they enjoy each other’s company. They laugh at jokes and understand it is such a congenial thing. Nobody thinks, “I am right.” Nobody thinks like that. Once you start thinking, “I am right  and that person is wrong.” “I am doing all right, he’s wrong,” finished. They enjoy themselves so much just like one wave it moves, you see? They are all the time laughing, enjoying you know, loudly. They help each other such a lot. It’s absolutely worth seeing that.

While we had only five or six people to begin with, in [INDIAN PLACE NAME, SOUNDS LIKE: Nilambar,] from London. One better than the other. They are all fighting, quarrelling and they used to come up to beating. Can you believe it? This was happening. So shameful I tell you and everybody was coming and telling, “What sort of Sahaj Yogis you have got, Mother? Are they Sahaj Yogis, really?” Arguing and doing this and doing that. All sorts of things were on and they would not inform Me the whole of it, but part of it would come to Me. I was so ashamed. Ask Malcolm. They used to, I mean they would break each other’s heads there. This was the condition. Can you believe it? While you would never find any Sahaj Yogis doing that, never, in India. I have not seen anyone. Anybody who tries to be funny goes out, immediately out of circulation. There’s no group-forming, nobody fights with anybody, nothing. And everybody was surprised how strange these people were, one better than the other. They were very irritable, hot-tempered, fighting and all that. They were so surprised that how can there be.

Give you an example here of Chhaya, see. Despite, she’s quite shocked; but she doesn’t know how to really beat things, meet. People are so criticizing, so this thing, but she’s trying to keep the balance. She’ll be always at the back. She’s never in the forward, when it comes to work she’ll be the first to do it. She takes up responsibilities. This is what happened last time. It’s not only lethargy, it is worse than that. In lethargy, you see it is a devil’s mind, and when you come out of lethargy you just come to blows. But as it is in India, I’ve not seen people coming to blows, I really tell you. Very seldom you’ll find people coming to blows. I mean, people never even talk loudly or in a temper, never. Now normally people are very quiet type. Then Sahaj Yogis, Oh! You should see how they enjoy. Oh! The girls and boys and every one, the way they enjoy. Love seeing them. You must try to enjoy each other.

Now the worst thing that can happen to human beings is ego. Worst thing, possession is better, at least you feel the pinch of it. But ego you never feel the pinch. It is you never feel that there is ego in you and you think you are the most correct person, you are the best person and the temper shows here in the nose. I can see the “haw-haw,” nose coming up like that.

Such ego, such ego, and this ego Indians have also picked up from you. Those who have come in contact with you, you see, as the dog when he comes in contact with human being learns many things, in the same way Indians who have come in contact with you people have picked up ego and we can see the difference. But in simple villages people try to be nice, congenial, good. How – by understanding auspiciousness. An auspicious presence is soothing, comforting, absorbing, beautiful.

And this, how do you develop? You should do little aarti to My photograph is a good idea. Now when you do the aarti also, somebody is shouting at the top of his voice. He’s trying to lead others. Then another trying to lead others, this should not be. There should be some, homogeneous, I can make it out, there’s no rhythm. Sing in the same tone, same style, try to make it one, one, concord should be there.

In a humble way, in joyous way that we all are singing, all our hearts are singing. All of us are here to do it. So many of us are… feel that joy, we are so many.

And it has a very bad effect on others when they see you this way. I mean anybody would be shocked. Why in India it is spreading, because they see that love between the people.

Now of our attention if you take it to the Spirit you’ll feel the collectivity. Attention should be, as I told you yesterday, find out how many times you have talked nicely to others and how many times have you have been quarrelling. If somebody says even a harsh word just keep quiet. Do not feel bad, it’s all right, it comes and goes.

Now some people are negative in the sense that they are on the left hand side and some people are negative because they are on the right hand side. Sometimes these combinations work very well. When a dominating man tries to dominate a left handed person, they are great friends, nothing like it. Because one dominates and another takes the domination. As soon as the left hand side person becomes little on the center or tries to come to the right, the dominating ones starts clashing. Then they are the worst enemies of each other. It happens like that, so be on the alert. Now a person who is on the negative on the left side, should try to come in the center and in the same way a person who is on the right side should come to the center.

Now how do you do it? Which is the way we can do it? Let us see it. A person who is very much on the right hand side should try to become friendly with the left hand side and left hand side person should try to be friendly with the right hand side, supposing. Let us start like this. So what is the give and take in this thing? The person who is on the right hand side will be better organizer, may be, may not be. At least will be a better orator or maybe a better sort of a leader, may be, may not be, you can’t say. He may be the one who will suggest things and who will bring out things, who will say “I’ll do this; I’ll do–” sort of thing, maybe. The left hand person will be frightened but will be humble, more loving, more affectionate. He’ll be much more at the command of others. This one will be commanding and the other will be receiving the command. This will be there. Now how do we solve the problem of this mixture, you see? The one who is very much on the ego side should try to obey the person who is on the left hand side. And on the left hand side should try to command more on the right hand side person and should be accepted. They, it should be mutually understood, there should be a contract. “All right, I am an ego oriented person and you are superego oriented, now let us do one thing. You try to dominate me and I’ll try to obey you.” It will work out. It’s a psychological style.

You just work it out. Try somebody who is a left sided person to dominate you. But rather difficult to get left sided people here. They are very few, because I believe some people were left sided, but when it comes to ego they are worst than anybody else, you see?

So rather difficult, but you can have a person who is left sided and let ten/an? ego oriented ask him to dominate. Till he develops his ego, he’s all right. If he develops ego stop it. But with complete understanding, watching yourself, how you develop, how far you go – a play should go on. Play with yourself.

But if you are identified with yourself that “I am always right, and nobody is right,” nothing can work out. I can tell you this much. Because if you are perfect I need not waste My words here. So the best way is to do this sort of a thing, “All right you order and I’ll do. Come along let’s see what do you think? Let you organize and we’ll do it. You tell us how to do it.” So he will use your heart and you will use your attention, it will work out very well. The combination will be good.

Let us decide to improve ourselves and not to feel bad about it. We have to improve a lot and a lot and a lot, because the relationship between you seems to be so bad. It’s like cancer – absolutely cancer. It is malignant. So try to see your ego and if it’s a… now even people if you have told them that somebody says you should say “I’m sorry,” they’ll not say like that. They’ll say sarca… “Aha, I am sorry,” or something like that. They’ll say in a sarcastic way so that sorry also has no meaning. All right, all right don’t say anything. This is not the way. You should say, “See yourself. So this ego has come. Now please tell me something else, I’ll do it.”

Christ washed the feet of His disciples. Just think of that. And that’s what a sensible Sahaj Yogi does. He washes the feet of another disciple. If you remember Aradhna, my granddaughter, when you people came to My house. There were I think about eight or ten of them. She got a small bucket; she washed each and everybody’s feet. Every time she would take it back to the bathroom throw it away, again fill it up bring it with great Spirit. She was five years. She had not completed her five years and she would wash everybody’s feet, wipe them, again put back. She did for everybody and then after that she came on My feet and then she said “I’m not going to look at anybody, I’m going to run away now I have done my job,” and she went away. Aradhna is of a very high quality Sahaj Yogini she is, very high quality. But she thought that this is the best way of washing their feet is showing the essence of collectivity. “Some part of me is not all right, let me clear it.” For example if you think of Me and you, you will understand how much I work hard on you. Why? Because I love you very much and you are My part and parcel. If you are not all right I’m not going to be all right. If you consider then, you will never think somebody is lower than you. Is better to wash the feet of someone than to wash your own feet, will be a good idea. Put down your ego every time.

Mohammad Sahib used this method. But best was used by Nanaka: He said, “Let all the Sikhs do some seva.” They have to, as a punishment they have to do some seva. So, what is a seva when there is a group? Somebody has to sit down. Even one guru, very big guru, had to clean the shoes of all the people who came for the program. He was given polish, brush and everything – very recently he was punished to clean the shoes of the people who came round. He was supposed to wash their clothes, wash their things, as a punishment. Anybody who is arrogant should do it. Anybody who quarrels or fights should do it. Anybody who is blunt should do it. And it worked, it works. They are supposed to wash their clothes, they are supposed to wash their feet, rub their feet, give them a massage and feel better.

In India if you see, all the Sahaj Yogis are working on each other’s chakras. But here nobody will accept even that you have these chakras caught up. Have you seen that? Everyday they are working, cleaning everybody’s, they’ll say, “Baba, clean my chakra,” they’ll say. Then when they do it they say “Thank you, you’ve cleaned mine.” And then they helped them, they rub their hands, feet because you have done so much work for them. This is not done here. I would like to see more mutual understanding, mutual love, mutual attraction for each other, should look forward to each other. Try to help each other than to criticize. I hate to hear any criticism of anyone from any one of you. But when it gets, goes too much is better to tell Me.

But you must judge yourself, “What are we doing for others?” Some people think, “As long as we keep quiet it’s all right.” It’s not the point. Try to be nice, give some presents, talk to them and there are so many ways of expression of your love to them. Give sometimes flowers, try to find out what are the likes and dislikes of the person is, is very good idea. Do not do things that people do not like, sometimes you see. It’s better not to do it. What is the use? If the relationships are spoilt, not to do those things. Just find out what you don’t like.

A simple thing: my husband doesn’t like Me to put flowers in the hair. But in Maharashtra all the married women are supposed to put the flowers in the hair, that’s a custom. But because of I’ve married him, he doesn’t like because in their community, only bad women put flowers in the head; I have never put flowers in My head. Only when it is a special puja or they tie up – in Maharashtra, there I agree. But I never make a bun and put a thing. It’s all right, if he doesn’t like it why do it? Unnecessary to increase all the clashes and the problem. Don’t do anything that people do not like you to do. Try to avoid, it creates problems. Try to do something that pleases others.

Let us see if you have devised this method how to please. If you please others, your deities will be very happy, because they are all one, within you, within her, within her, they are all one. And they feel happy, because they’re all related to each other, and they feel unhappy when you try to be unkind to each other, because they are one.

If this is worked out, properly, understandingly, all of you are going to be great saints. I see your image in future also. Of some of you are going to be very, very great and some of you are going to take it up. It’s a, it’s a project launched. Launch a project against yourself, towards yourself, building up yourself. How sweet you are going to be others, let’s have it. Talk to others. Some people just don’t talk, I have seen they are all the time …[SILENCE]; they will have very bad Vishuddhi. You must talk; you must be nice you must be open-hearted. This Yugoslav girl is very open–hearted, I like her for that reason. She has a big heart.

Talk with a big heart, open! No secretiveness and this cold, what is it called, English manner?

Yogini: Aloof?

Shri Mataji: Aloof?

Yogini: When you keep yourself above people.

Shri Mataji laughs: Aloof. I think there must be some English special word for this thing. The way they are cold you know. When you sit….

Other yogini:  Stiff upper lip, Mother.

Shri Mataji: Ha?

Several yogis: Stiff upper lip … Upper lip.

Shri Mataji: Upper lip? Upper lip, not so much upper lip. There need not be upper lip, could be pride.

[Yogi’s laugh and one make an indistinct comment at which Shri Mataji laughs]

Shri Mataji: That kind of a presence is here, [INDISTINCT: DOUR,] which is specialty of English also, isn’t it? You go in a train, they just don’t talk. I mean they don’t allow you to talk, they freeze you with silence. They can’t see people laugh, smile or joke, anything a …[SILENCE] and you don’t know what to do with them. Newspaper they will read only all the way, and they will fold it and read it. But they know each and everything about you.

Yogini: Could it be called “insular.”

Shri Mataji: Insular. Ah yes! And is a very dangerous thing for Sahaj Yogis. The one who becomes insular is in for trouble. Is in for trouble, insular. You know why, because you are left alone, you’ll be attacked. Be together. All these bhoots also know you are insular. They’ll attack you. By any chance you try to become unique, they’ll attack you. Even some people become, by talking too much also they can become insular, unique; you sit on top of everybody else. Better be with everyone, is better. Be one with everybody, congenial. Take a joke from others. Other are joking with you, you should not get angry. If somebody joking with you, “Oh! Shut up.” Like that one should not do. Take a joke, be a sport. English language has one very good quality that they can laugh at themselves, you see. All the language has found out ways and methods of how to laugh at yourself, that’s something beautiful about English language. I don’t think any language has so many words to express these odd situations, which are very, very embarrassing you see. You can only brand them and by branding them, you know where you are. You exactly know what medicine is needed for this. You see it is like that.

It’s just branding, “Oh this is it,” and it’s very interesting to watch these things in the society and everywhere. Which is described, even Charles Dickens, now example, at that time he found out these things and he said it. And I mean the description of all these things is so beautifully done in the literature that you are amazed how people had a capacity to see themselves, the society as it is and to de…  Characterization of people: how characters are built up you see and how it becomes a social problem. It’s beautifully done and that’s the wisdom. That’s the real wisdom of British, I tell you. I mean you may lose it if you start getting dominated by nonsensical ideas, but otherwise that wisdom you have innate. I mean to have a person like Shakespeare itself shows what?

I mean you are a country of great people. How can that be? Where some, they are not “some,” there are quite a lot of them and you are going to be the wisest because you have the advantage of their creation. On top of, you have got advantage of your creation. Then/that? you belong to a great country like that. Imagine the whole country is getting into the mire of lethargy, who is going to save this country? You people.

So again and again it is against lethargy and whatever is lethargy is anti Christ, is anti God, is anti Mataji. Try to become cheerful and blissful, happy, dignified, sensible, sweet. It’s not too many things, is very few, it’s only one. And I know we are going to enjoy life very much. You are going to be very happy people. Take out your tempers from your heads first of all, the angers you see and to say, “I got very angry.” Means what? Why did you get angry? To be proud of your anger and temper and your irritations!

It will be very beautiful I am sure. You are growing up, but the growth becomes little dwarfed with these nonsensical things, you know. So you have to protect your growth from these things as we protect a small plant from say frost falling on a plant. It’s like that. Frost is nothing compared to the plant, because plant is growing, but the frost can kill it and that’s how you do not make it a frost. Be cheerful. People come up and they go down. I’ve seen people come up and then they go down. Try to look after yourself.

[27:35 side B] [Extra 19 min on reviewers tape:] Now after seventeen days I am going to come and see you very beautifully developed and all the time My attention is on you, I work on you all the time. And I’m much more intimate with you than with anybody else, because these people see Me only for two days and then they started crying! They’re lost. But I see you so much, more than even Indians.

Is Paul there? Paul has come?

Yogi: Yes Mother.

Shri Mataji: Yes. Hm. Paul, what happened?

Paul: I want to get a message to, from the people of India…

Shri Mataji: Ha?

Paul: …Apart from the – the people of India send their love. But one of the Sahaj Yogis in india has become very ill.

Shri Mataji: Who?

Paul: Professor [INDISTINCT: Manneh] in Rahur.

Shri Mataji: I know. But why did you get angry with Dhumal?

Paul: Dhumal? By that time I’d really, I’d had enough of seeing in India the way that there’s two classes of people in India: those who have a lot of money and those who–

Shri Mataji: And what about in this country?

Paul: Well it’s the same deal in this country, but the people in this country who don’t have a lot of money, at least they have bare necessities of life. You know like a roof over their heads.

Shri Mataji: You went there to do Sahaj Yoga or to do these things? You see, what I’m saying, where was your attention? Now you knows, Dhumal has given realizations to ten thousand people. And he’s your elder brother, you should respect him. He has a servant, because in India the situation is different. If he gives up his servant, he’ll have no food to eat.

It’s not that everybody use brain. You see this is one thing in this country people do not realize. If you use, you work much harder than his servant, do you know that? Because your brain never stops. His servants works with his hand he doesn’t think! His energy goes to his hands, he rests also. You see here the idea is if somebody’s working with the hand, it’s cruelty. But what about this brain? The amount of brain you use all the time – now tell me, you cannot stop your thinking, all right?

Now see My servant, though he works hard, he’s much more relaxed than My husband is. My husband doesn’t do even lifting a, say lifting a glass. All right? And what happens, that one can say that this man is a lazy fellow, he’s enjoying everything in life, he’s enjoying all the comfort while the servant is not. But My servant is, in a way, is doing his handwork, because that’s all he can do; his brain is not that developed. And he has much more rest than My husband has. He’s much more relaxed. Somebody is the hand, somebody is the feet and somebody’s the head. But if you do work with your head, is the same.

Now if you are doing work with your head, you have to have certain amount of comfort to your body, otherwise even if you have to suffer on your body – of course I do not say that servants should be ill-treated by any chance, that should not be done – but… And nobody gives your money to anybody else like that. You see he’s paid for it and he does the work with his hands so you can see it. But what about the brain part, do you see the brain how it works? I wish you could have a microscope to see how the brain works, and all the chakras, “cutcutcutcut-cutcutcutcut” going on. One thought itself is a dynamite and you cannot stop it, ask him. Yesterday his thought going on like a machine! There’s a machine here working out.

So, this happens and then one should understand that when you go to any country, you are a guest there… He was very unhappy and he wrote a very sad letter to Me and that was not good. You didn’t want him to be unhappy, you w–

Paul indistinctly: What if I write?

Shri Mataji: Ha? Dhumal?

Paul: We didn’t have an argument.

Shri Mataji: Ha?

Paul: I didn’t have an argument.

Shri Mataji: You didn’t have what?

Paul: I told him what I felt.

Shri Mataji: Ha?

Paul: I told him what I felt, I just went, I just… you know the most, quite a lot of places in India. And–

Shri Mataji: You, what did you feel?

Paul: Well I felt that if somebody’s telling me how many houses they’ve got and how many houses they’re buying, when their servant doesn’t have a roof over his head, when the roof leaks and the children–

Shri Mataji: Now, supposing, here people have so many houses which are lying empty, here, in England. Do they give their houses to you people? Do they? Is there any way? How many people you should give also, is there any system by which you should give?

See that is not Dhumal’s problem, is the problem of the government. Dhumal has houses, he has given a huge big fort to us as a present to Sahaj Yoga. If he gives a house free to his servant, I think he will make him a parasite out of him. Do you know in India, beggars have got big, big buildings? Do you know that fact? Some of the buildings on Marine Drive are owned by people who are professionally beggars. So if you see some problem it has so many deeper roots, which you do not see. But, you just write a letter of apology to him. I was hurt, very much, because he, he has done such a tremendous job.

He is going to give a huge big place to us for Sahaj Yoga. Nobody has been able to do that so far. He has given Me ten thousand people as Sahaj Yogis. And when you people say, “I felt,” what is this “I,” what is this “I”? I know you have a very sympathetic heart, but sometimes you are swayed by it. Sympathetic heart, to a point is good. It should be prudent heart, it should not be unwise. You must know the sense of proportion. I mean that’s a system in India, which is working, but you cannot do without servants. Here also. What is happening to you, without servants, you are all intelligent people, why you live in a mess, in pigsties? Because you are using your brains, you don’t know how to use your hands. All these communistic ideas are of no use. People have to do some sort of a job, this job or that job. There’s nothing wrong. Some people who can do brain job, have to do brain job, those who have to do handwork has to do handwork. Of course there should not be much disparity in their living, I agree, but that’s not his problem, is the problem of the whole country.

But I tell you even to servants I have seen, you give them something… There was a lady nurse, you see? Once I was rather sick so she used to come and see Me and help Me a little bit. So I thought just as a favor I must do something to her. So I sent her by our ship to sea, I said “Let her have a holiday, she’ll be all right.” So I sent her to Africa. I mean the problems are much deeper than you understand. I sent her to Africa. You know, she came back and she started telling the doctor off. She thought she has become the doctor.

And the doctor told Me, “Why did you do it?” They get into imbalances. You see, even to poor persons, if you give them something like that, they go into imbalances.

I’ll give you another very concrete example. My husband, who is very socialistic in his approach, and is a good thing, so what he did, was to increase the pay of the drivers. You see the drivers started getting one thousand Rupee, which was very, very big amount. And the lowest clerk gets about say twelve hundred. So there was a very little disparity. Now the driver’s getting one thousand Rupees, was too much. Within six months their wives came to Me. They said, “This was a very wrong thing he did to our husbands. They have got keeps now; they have started drinking; they have started not giving any money to us.” So to poor people if you give them more money, they do not know how to use it, they will be drinking. Poor people drink much more than the rich people. So they had to be trained how to use money. You just give them money is no use. You do not understand the deeper… thing… People are to be brought up properly.

Like we have got in India Schedule Caste – I agree Schedule Caste is a nonsense, it should not be there, you should not treat somebody as a lower caste, is all right. But what they have brought into now, suddenly, that Schedule Caste must have equal seats, equal rights in every job and everything, whether they are qualified or not. So you have got people who are not qualified, or even in exams, in the colleges, you must have so many Schedule Caste.

Now what has happened, by doing this kind of a top-heavy work, some muck has come up, and they are absolutely useless people, they cannot do administration. Instead of that, what Ghandiji had said, that, “Train them up, educate them, bring them up.” Suddenly the educated people are there and some people suddenly, uneducated, nothing, brought to that, they cannot bear it.

Now we had a servant with us who came to Me, who was a – you must be knowing him, Paramshivam – who came down here. And he used to, he was getting hardly hundred Rupees there, we gave him a big pay and everything, when he came here he started misbehaving. Then his mother, when I wrote to them that, “He’s misbehaving, I don’t know what to do. He has developed all bad habits.” He was buying pornography pictures here, going to the pub, then having girlfriends and doing all sorts of things, he started here. So when I wrote to his mother, what his mother wrote to Me is very interesting to read. She said, “Those people who live in mud, if they have to sleep on a bed, it hurts them. So suddenly giving them something materially is not going to improve him. You have to train them up. You do not know what problems there are of poverty. Poverty is just like leprosy. Leprosy: you know what the leprosy parasites eat? They eat petrol; they thrive on petrol. So gross it is.

And then, you being an Englishman should not have said it, because English are responsible for the poverty of India, you like it or not. They have created this problem for us, we didn’t have this problem before. Our servants were part and parcel of our house. They treated us just like slaves, so we have got this idea from them.
How they treated us! I must say Dhumal was very decent not to say this to you, but this is what it is. The way they treated us in India, you have no idea. Even till yesterday we had “White Clubs” where Indians were not allowed on our own soil! When we were independent, and they’re fighting for it.

They killed thousands of people, raped so many woman there. “We English” should not say that, in that country were we have ruled and made them slaves. You see they did not allow us to come up. What are you doing to foreigners here who are coming up? How you treat them? What racialism you have here compared to what we have in India, we have no racialism. They treated you with such great respect. They should have said, “You are white, so ‘racialism,’ all right we’ll ill-treat you.” But if you go to Africa they will teach you. Africans, West Indies – they are on top of you. What I’m saying, to break the vicious circle try to understand the problem of every country. From where does this problem come to India, and to most of the countries who are underdeveloped. The French, they dominated also many countries. This is also, one should understand that we should not dominate any more. We should wash their feet, that’s what it is.

Now you have killed the culture of all the Africans and Africans have taken to all French and English culture. Absolutely, they have prostitutes the same way you have, they have the women the same way you have; their ideas of liberation’s the same, only the Indians have resisted you. Otherwise everywhere you have never respected anybody’s culture or anything. You have to face it. If you go to South America, you’ll be shocked the way people have wiped out all the… all the people who lived there; all of them, one and all. Except for Colombia, can you imagine? Every country, every soul has been wiped out. Just see that.

Of course if he was ill-treating him I can understand, but he doesn’t ill-treat. These ideas are Western ideas; they’re applicable to you people, not to Indians. And this is the big mistake people are doing is to put your ideas onto us. For example in field reforms, you see? My son-in-law is a very enlightened fellow, he had twenty-five miles, square miles of area of his own. But he used to get his labor from all these areas, he used to provide them everything, he used to pay them very well; they were living very well. Suddenly the idea came, “No. They must have their own land holdings,” all right – without understanding that they are to be trained, they are to be brought up, they are not educated, there must be communication – so everybody was given a one patch here and a one patch there and a one patch there and a one patch there. What happened, that they started getting strangulated in those areas. There was no way of communication to them, they could not get their wheat, they could not get their seeds, they could not do anything, they started starving. And they came to My son-in-law that, “You come forward, you are the one who was the agency in between and you should have done it.” But they removed the agency and without training these people.

Ghandiji suggested these things. He said that, “You must enlighten the rich people and you must also try to emancipate these people by education, by making them understanding,” and all that. There is a huge, areas in India, which are called as “Backward Areas,” where these aboriginals live. They do not believe in any sedentary habits, they are like, what you call the gypsies. So what they do, these people plough their fields and all that, and they come in the night and plunder it. And they live like that. And they have been living like this and they feel very happy about it. They second is this (?), the so-called poor of India. You must see how leprosy grows also. They started in Maharashtra a scheme by which they said, “We will provide you jobs and otherwise we’ll give you a dole.” Now this is the worst thing that can happen to anyone; that we have realized very soon, I hope they have withdrawn it. So they what they did – Indians as it is they are very cunning and clever – so what they did they would go and write their names as the people who are doles, getting doles, you see? And they would work somewhere and get the dole as well, double money. Then they would go and drink. What are these people doing, but to drink? It’s such a problem, prohibition; they, they drink iodine, they drink, what you call this… What do you eat, drink for this thing, it’s some sort of sulphuric acid or some sort of an acid they drink? I don’t know?

Various yogis: Meths… Methylated Spirits.

Shri Mataji: Methylated or whatever… [laughs] I don’t know! I don’t understand. So, you see they are so foolish, what I am saying that taking up anything like that at random is not good.
And I was sorry because his wife wrote to Me, “How much they have done for Sahaj Yoga.” The only solution is Sahaj Yoga. There’s no other solution, which he has helped Me a lot.
“You see,” and he was very sorry he said that, “How am I to do without servants?” You see the servant system is like that. If he gives roof to everyone he’ll be left with no house. There’s not done, this kind of generosity’s not done anywhere. If there was such an agency like that, which was doing such a work, it is possible.
Even the so called communists everywhere, wherever they are in a democracy, have their own properties. Once the democracy will go away they won’t be able to even talk.

But I do not say that Capitalism is the solution; I say Sahaj Yoga is the solution, all right? It is the Sahaj Yoga and he’s done so much for Sahaj Yoga. For that servant we cannot in any way insult him; servant is not important for us, who is the servant? Who are these poor people to us? We are not responsible for them, the state is responsible. We are responsible for Sahaj Yogis, because they are the people who make the difference. What does it matter if thousand people die or live, to God? He can create thousand more? There are people who are realized, even poor people, but our attention should not be shifted otherwise we’ll become like that lady, Theresa. She collects money from people, she has no money of her own. She gets people who are somewhere dying and she, she  has mission, I…